Is Technology Helping or Hijacking Your Sleep?

So today we're asking, is technology helping us sleep or actually hijacking it? The biology behind tech-triggered insomnia and what you can actually do to take your nights back.

In bed is the only time we can stop moving and relax. So what do we do? We naturally grab our phones, not taking into consideration the effects our phones have on our sleep. So it's the bedtime novelty when we finally sit down, stop moving, which is now supposed to be our time to rest, which we've now occupied with some Some sort of digital device. Light is an indicator that it's time to wake up. When our eyes see blue light specifically, that suppresses the melatonin because we're supposed to be awake. Melatonin is a hormone that makes us sleepy, and it works with GABA, and that's what keeps us asleep throughout the night. Dopamine is a happiness drug. Dopamine can't stay high and amplified all the time; it becomes depleted. So now we're in a state of dopamine depletion, so we lack the ability to. to get happy. And so it takes more excitement, more happiness to elicit the same response that do actually affect your sleep.

So smart rings, watches, apps, there's so many. There's a new one every day, I feel like. Do you think that they actually do help the average person sleep better at all?

So with the sleep data, I do believe it's very, very helpful in identifying potential sleep issues or patterns of sleep issues. However, it's important to also take that, how do you feel? We can see what our blood saturation looked like. You know, we— there's other parameters we can look at to see How was that night's sleep? So from that, and then we go to optimize. Those are things that are important identifiers to help contribute to how you feel overall.

Welcome back to Sleep Reimagined, where we explore the science, stories, and breakthroughs that are reshaping the way that we rest. And today's episode is one we all need to hear because whether you realize it or not, there's a high chance that something in your pocket or your hand or your nightstand is quietly disrupting your sleep. And I'm talking about tech. So from bedtime scrolling to sleep trackers to the last-minute binge watch, our digital habits are really training our brains against rest. So today we're asking, is technology helping us sleep or actually hijacking it? So Nyree is here and together we're pulling back the curtain on the most common digital disruptors, the biology behind tech-triggered insomnia, and what you can actually do to take your nights back. So let's dive in. Hi, Nyree. I think this is, I'm excited to, to dive into this episode.

I'm so happy to talk to you again, Layla.

Me too. And I think that this is just such an exciting topic because it's so relative, right?

Yeah.

I think It's something that's affecting everyone all over and different ages, and we're all guilty of probably misusing our phones a little bit.

A little bit. Um, you know, and, and that being said, this is actually a new problem. This is a new problem on top of an existing problem, right? So it's, it's, it's just one of those things that again fall into how, you know, it affects our sleep. Your question was, how does tech help our sleep or how does it show up, right?

Mm-hmm.

So, I think it's important to also break down what parameters are often, I'm just going to, I'm not saying any names, just general what I've noticed. We have the REM, how much REM did you get? How much non-REM did you get? How much, how long did you stay asleep? Some of them go so far as to say, you know, what, kind of quality sleep did you get? But for the most part, it, it, you know, on average tells you how much sleep you got and how well you slept, right? Mm-hmm. We're now looking at devices to tell me how I rested.

Yeah. Yeah. Overall, I think that exactly like even what I just said about the last binge watcher, all these digital disruptors, right? So. What do you think are the biggest tech-based disruptors that you tend to see in your patients' sleep habits overall?

Tech. So, I will say tech in respect to wearable devices and cell phones, right? So, the tech has become our new partner. So, it's not so much as we're using tech in bed, it's in bed is the only time we can stop moving and relax. So, what do we do? We naturally grab our phones, not taking into consideration the effects our phones have on our sleep. So, it's the bedtime, oh my God, I finally got a chance to sit down and check my email or see what's going on on social media. So, it's the bedtime novelty of bedtime creep, so to speak.

Mm-hmm.

It's when we get to finally sit down, stop moving, which is now supposed to be our time to rest, which we've now occupied with some sort of digital device. And on the other side of it, the wearable devices, you know, now it's the Apple Watch and now the glasses. Again, a new problem. Now we have the device and our phone on our wrist and in arm's reach, and we're supposed to lay down and go to sleep. Right. So, the data that it's gathering now forces us to go, okay, so it said I didn't sleep or I only had this much sleep, but it's this new problem. Like, and I'll be honest with you, like, other than being in the sleep industry, my primary profession was anesthesia. I had never heard of orthosomnia. Like, what is that? I don't mean to like, you know, but what— A new problem.

With, with all these, you know, technology advances, I think that it's— I didn't even really think about the glasses until you said it, but there's always going to be almost a new problem that's developing. So that's such an interesting take because I'm not too well-versed in the glasses. I saw them, and for me, it was just not my— something that really interests me because I thought it was Too much personally. So I'm naturally thinking about, you know, what we call doom scrolling, laying in bed, like, it's time to relax and you want to scroll on social media or check your email or those things. So that's where my mind went. So, and even though that's still somewhat of a new problem, there's all these newer problems that are arising from tech. So that's, that's so interesting to even think about. So you're going to be seeing more and more, you know, new problems.

I already do. I already do. Just a prime example, I can absolutely give you a couple of case situations where I legitimately had someone come to me because their watch didn't say that they got 8 hours of sleep.

Hmm.

I'm sorry, how do you want me to help you? Like, how do you feel? Let's start there. Like, how do you feel? I feel fine. I don't understand why. And I don't mean to mimic, I'm just saying this is where we are. This is what I've seen. There's legitimately people out here obsessing over the data that's telling you about your body. This is secondary. A data— the wearable devices are secondary. It tracks habits, not actual— it's an analog. It takes data, it takes data, it takes data, and then gives you a data, right? It is not by any means— it is— it serves a purpose to track habits, right? Okay, I noticed Every time I drink, I'm only able to sleep for 2 hours and I feel terrible the next day. What did my REM sleep, non-REM sleep look like? Okay, fine. I know that when I drink, I probably need to know that I need to take another day because I'm gonna have to actually go back and get some sober sleep.

Okay.

That's, that's great. Evaluate data that way. Sleep apnea is a huge one, right? Absolutely. Look at that data. Look at your data from that, from the respect of them. I don't know some habit or some non-API value, right? It tells you how many times you stop breathing throughout the night or if you stop breathing. This is when the other data parameters come into play. Okay, my sleep says I stopped breathing 8 times at night, then my heart rate went down. So yeah, wear a device if it's helping you track that you need to get some help because you're stopped breathing at night. And now it's affecting your heart to where there's a huge potential for you to have a heart attack, 1,000%. But don't ignore that data either and don't obsess over it. It serves its purpose. It has its place, but it also has potential for huge problems.

Yeah, that's interesting to even think about how that can lead into so many bigger problems.

Yeah, absolutely. And so it's sort of, Absolutely. They, you know, they have the ring. I think one of the rings now comes when it notices your oxygen saturation drops, which is another parameter. It'll vibrate and almost wake you up or shake you out of— to get to breathing at night. 1,000%. That's its purpose. It's time to go see a sleep apnea doctor.

Mm-hmm.

I.e., Carisone Sleep Health and Wellness. You know what I mean? It's time to get help. Whoever you go to, it's time to see someone. to help you. You are not breathing at night. This is a problem in your sleep. So there's, there's so many, you know, indicators that it can be, but it's not the end-all to be-all.

Absolutely. And speaking about all these different tech advances, but overall, you know, how do you think that screen exposure, particularly right at night, really biologically impacts melatonin or your circadian rhythm?

Absolutely. So, this is, this is where, you know, I really pride us as a company and our foundational belief is looking at sleep from the neurological perspective. Light is information to our brains. Light is an indicator that it's time to wake up. We are creatures of this earth. I say that all the time. So, when we see light, to us that's blue, it's time to wake. It elicits a chemical response in our eyes, in our brains to wake up. And it's not just one, it's many. One that you're referring to is specifically melatonin. Melatonin is a hormone that is released in our brain, but it goes down when we see blue light specifically, right? Because to us, the sun is up. Our bodies, our minds are doing what it's built to do. It's us who's confusing it and dysregulating it, right? So, When our eyes see light, blue specifically, that suppresses the melatonin because we're supposed to be awake. Melatonin is a hormone that makes us sleepy and it works with GABA and that's what keeps us asleep throughout the night. So if we're on our phones at night and our melatonin is high, our minds and our bodies are conflicted because of a new problem.

Mm-hmm.

Not— doesn't have to be a problem, but we have to learn how to use this responsibly and appropriately. Mm-hmm. And recognize what it's doing to us as people, right? So that blue light suppresses melatonin. So that doesn't make us sleepy. So melatonin is low, we should be bright-eyed and bushy-tailed when we wake up. That's why one of our recommendations from a neurological perspective for our brain health, the first thing you can do in the morning is see the sunlight. Literally go see sunlight because that immediately starts the response to suppress the melatonin, right? And as the sun goes down, and that's the issue with the whole time change thing, you know, because how it affects our circadian rhythm. So it's all biological and neurophysiological.

And I, we touched on this a little bit last time, how the time change is such an issue in itself and how so many other countries have done away with it, but, but ours, but it's just waking up in the morning and looking out on the, to, you know, your window or stepping outside. It's such a, it's such a game changer.

Absolutely.

And your emotions and everything.

Absolutely. And that seasonal depression is real. And that's why, that's how it happens. It's that, that constant, you know, lack of the ability to just see sunlight and just not being able to lower those levels of melatonin. You know, and I understand, you know, I don't care if it's snowing, some light will reflect off the snow and give you some light, right? But when you're in a constant state of darkness like Alaska, you know, where suicide rates are very, very high, depression, anxiety is very, very high because of the lack of the ability to see the sun and the light.

Absolutely. And what do you think the role of dopamine when it comes to For example, bedtime scrolling or content binging, how does that really affect dopamine or what's the role?

Again, the best friend that we have that's always by our side, our cell phone, and we're so excited. And then we're so excited to chat with other friends and do things and buy things and, oh my God, be all these wonderful— and I'm in a constant state of happiness anytime. I'm on my phone. Happiness. Dopamine is a happiness drug, right? And so, however, again, for your brain health, dopamine can't stay high and amplified all the time. It becomes depleted. So now we're in a state of dopamine depletion, right? So we lack the ability to get happy, right?

Mm-hmm.

And so we upregulate More dopamine, less dopamine. So it takes more excitement, more happiness to elicit the same response because we don't know how to put our phones away. Another problem that we have to recognize. So it's not just, I'm on my phone at night and I'm so happy to have— and that's, you know, this is when I relax, you know, my phone. I play games. I like the whole— I do the whole thing. I'm guilty too, right?

Right.

How is that going to help me in my sleep? You know, dopamine doesn't affect the sleep the same way the melatonin does, but it's definitely a very, very huge aspect of it because if you're depleted, it does affect your sleep. And so that's the state, the state of dopamine depletion that we're leading up to.

Absolutely. And so many, and I think this is just so important to Say, and obviously, you know, you're very knowledgeable in this space, but so many people are doing all these things on a regular basis and not realizing the impact it has. And like you said, the dopamine hits, like even from scrolling, but to buying things or playing games, it's all these things that you think that are maybe good for you or making you feel happier, or all these things of maybe being distracted from something else that's bothering you that's actually really not good for you at all. So it's important to— Let everyone know that. Because sometimes when you're not feeling great, you just want to get on your phone and scroll, but it's actually having really the complete opposite effect.

Right. And it's not usually the initial, it's the secondary, right? It's what happens when we get on the phones and we do get excited and we start seeing things and now it's time to go to sleep. Right? It's not that, right? It's not so— and like I said, it's a connection. It's a family. Is not, you know, your melatonin is low, but your dopamine is high, but now you wanna go to sleep, right? You can see that the convolution of the different neurotransmitters that do actually affect your sleep.

Absolutely. And, and beyond, you know, those, those dopamine feelings and, and that like hits of happiness, if you will, right? Another issue that I feel like comes along with being on your phone or being on a device constantly is A level of anxiety. So how does tech-induced anxiety, for example, like checking an email or doom scrolling, really amplify cognitive arousal at bedtime?

Because we don't have the ability to monitor how our phones and social media is going to affect us.

Mm-hmm.

You know, it's like we might be on one, you know, post and it's like, oh my God, that's so funny. And the next post is like, oh my God, that's terrible. So you're, you're already going through these whole fluctuations of emotions. You know, just scrolling. And then, you know, you're in fight or flight mode and you're in bed, right? One of the biggest things we talk about at Presomnia Sleep also is bedtime. The bed is for 2 things, sleep and sex, period. If you're not doing one of those 2 things, get. We're not watching TV in bed. We're not doomsday scrolling. We're not do— because you need to let your mind know, your brain know, this is a place of sanctuary or at least happiness.

Mm-hmm.

You know, so to be in bed scrolling and then eliciting all these emotions and responses that are all interconnected with your rest and your sleep, and now you're like, whenever you feel like it, then you start— it triggers another response. What happened at work? What happened at bed? What— and the argument we had, you know, whatever. And now you're going to bed with this same fight or flight fear. And then I wake up tomorrow morning, and now my watch also tells me that I didn't sleep well. So now that has increased anxiety about being in bed and using the devices and going to sleep and even looking at the data because it's like, I know I felt terrible. Let me just add to it and see what my watch says.

That's so interesting too. And I think this might be a little off topic, but I know that Phones will also track sleep, but do you think that that is a good way of tracking? 'Cause a wearable's different. It's on your body versus the phone might be next to you. So I'm not sure how phones really do track that, but would you think that that's like indicative, like actually a good way to measure at all?

Again, we have to be cautious of how we're using that information. When we say, okay, our wearables track our sleep. That's a big bucket, right? Because we look at sleep from a neurological perspective. Your watch can't tell you what's going on in your brain.

Hmm.

It can only tell you if you're breathing at night, how long you stayed asleep, and everything else, and your blood oxygen, your heart rate. It uses those type of— so it's like, we'll use your heart rate, that'll be 1 point. We'll use, you know, your blood pressure, that'll be 2 points. And then we'll put that together and we'll make it 3 points and say that you had a terrible sleep.

Mm-hmm.

Right? And so that's the algorithm. So it just takes parameters from other things. Even if your watch or— it has to be an actual wearable device for it to be able to track your physical parameters. What are you using that information for? If you're using it to see that, again, your oxygen levels are dropping at night when you go to sleep, This is important information. But if you're— if you feel fine and you have no reason to wonder or be concerned, but you see that it said you were only asleep for 4 hours, but you feel pretty good, now you're conflicted. Now this creates a whole nother set of anxiety. You're like, but I feel okay.

Right.

Right? So my watch can't lie. Right? But my watch is supposed to know. Your watch is secondary, OK? Any data you get from those devices is secondary. How do you feel? How do you feel here? How do you feel here? That's your number one indicator.

That's a good point. And then to dive in a little bit deeper about wearables, so smart rings, watches, apps, there's so many. There's a new one every day, I feel like. But do you think that they actually do help the average person sleep better at all?

Well, again, be careful how you ask that question. Do these devices help you sleep better? Absolutely not. Absolutely not. Do they help you use some data to identify some sleep disparities you may have at night? Absolutely. So, how do you want to use that information? And it's important. If we weren't taught how to sleep, We definitely weren't taught how to use this data about how not to sleep. So, we have another, we have a bigger problem than just wearable devices telling me I'm not sleeping. You're adding a level of anxiety that nobody's addressing.

Absolutely.

So, we have to really be cognizant of what this information really means and how to use it appropriately to help us. 'Cause I think that is the overall goal. I, you know, I do think the idea was Let's help people, you know, optimize their health. Sleep health absolutely being one of them. Yes, it will help you optimize sleeping better if you are not currently sleeping well, but it's secondary.

And you mentioned this word earlier, orthosomnia. So what is orthosomnia and why is it becoming more and more common with sleep tracking?

Because it sounds cool. No, no, I'm kidding.

I was like, I actually don't know what this is at all either.

That's what I was saying before. I was like, I, you know, I've been doing this for a minute. I was like, what is, what is this? Like, why does it like, and who, who decided that this was like a real word that we now start using? But okay, fine, whatever. Insomnia is when someone becomes obsessed with getting perfect sleep. You know, usually it's driven by some sleep scores, some data, they're chasing numbers. Instead of actually listening, you know, to their bodies. And ironically, the pursuit of perfect sleep is leading to insomnia, right? So, how are we using this information? You know, they were so gracious in offering us this new word and this new definition, but there was no foundation or background to go with it. Now that we know that we have orthosomnia, What are we supposed to do with this, right? You're supposed to come to ProSoundly Sleep Health and Wellness because your sleep scores say God knows what. And I— and we do have legitimate patients. Like I said, there was nothing wrong with this person, literally nothing wrong. His concern was that he didn't get 8 hours of sleep. How do you feel? I feel fine, but my watch— Who told you you're supposed to get 8 hours? All this misinformation culminates into unnecessary anxiety.

Right.

So now it's a mental health issue, right? So I, you know, we have to be careful with all this data, you know, whether it's sleep or anything else. All right, that's cool, is to optimize, but then what? How? How do we— so we also need to follow that up with responsible information on how to optimize or what this even means. They'll say these sleep latency. Okay. What? What? As a, how long have you been asleep essentially? Then say, you know, these, these, this terminology is, is very confusing as well.

Mm-hmm.

So we have to really, that's why that's, that's all we do at Presomnia. Like, oh, everything related to sleep definitions, new sleep definitions, you know, that's what we're here for, to really help people dive into What's creating this inability for us to have real restorative rest.

Mm-hmm. It's, it's so interesting too, because even the person you're speaking of becoming obsessed with not getting 8 hours of sleep, and where did you get 8 hours from? Like, who told you? That's such a good question. But I feel like the common knowledge, and maybe it's a myth or a huge misconception, people should be getting, you know, 8 to 10 hours of sleep is, I feel like I've heard that 100 times.

Right.

But I feel like for me personally, when I get that much sleep, I don't feel good. I feel—

Exactly. You've had too much sleep. There's such a thing as too much sleep.

Absolutely.

And, you know, people don't, don't talk about that because when we look at it for brain health, neurologically, what has happened is with too much sleep, you can actually deplete your adenosine. We need a level. It's a balance. It's not a one or nothing. There's a balance. When you get too much sleep and too much rest specifically, you're starting to get into depletion mode. And those are very, very important building blocks to maintain that level. So that's something else. You know, someone, we may, you know, they may be looking at us like, wow, I'm getting 12 hours of sleep. Like, ugh. But how do you feel?

Mm-hmm.

Well, you know, I haven't, I only slept for a total of 6 hours for the past 3 days. And so now I need 12 hours of sleep and my, my watch is telling me that's too much.

Right.

You know, so like it's important to navigate and help people understand what this information really means, not just, here you go, you didn't, you didn't sleep enough last night.

And really go off, like you said, how, how do you feel? Go off what your body is telling you. Absolutely.

What is your body and your mind telling you? If you're still sleepy, that's fine. Optimize it. Go to bed earlier. Use these cues in tandem, not separately, the data and your body.

Absolutely. And for these— and like you said, this is probably a newer problem, but how do you help patients who come in and they're obsessed with their sleep scores and their, like you said, their data that they're getting from these wearables? help them navigate that?

What? All that? Everybody gets a personalized sleep plan when they come because everybody has their own unique sleep issue. Like, you know, we had to— we had a conversation, we had a consultation. He did his sleep score. I mean, he did his sleep quiz with us. An actual, like, let's talk about these questions. And that's what we do. We talked about all the questions is like, how long did you sleep? Okay, I only slept 6 hours. My watch said I slept, you know, I only slept Okay, fine. How do you feel? All right. How do you usually feel? Like, what is your habit? Is it, is this a habit for you, you know, to only get like 6 hours and you still feel fine? Or is this just something that you came up with recently? You know, let's do, we do a neurotransmitter test. You know, how does that affect your sleep? We do the EEG monitoring and we determine, we do the prosomnias sleep therapy. If we identify that you are completely sleep deprived, we will help reset those levels for you and use that information to help you kind of guide when you, you know, you're getting a little bit lower with the length of time you're sleeping, you know, maybe it's time for us to talk again and revisit what's going on. You know, so it's not a one and done. It's not a change overnight. These are gradual habits. We have to get into the habit of putting the phone down, get into the habit of looking at the light when we wake up. Looking at the habit of not thinking about those terrible things. We do have a, you know, write down things. We're huge advocates on having a notepad, specifically a notepad, you know, and something to write with next to your bed. You get 3, write the 3 things that you need to get off your mind from the day so you can lay down and go to bed because you don't want to think about that, right? So tomorrow when you wake up, after you look at the sun, all right, then deal with it. Right? When your melatonin is low and you're not sleepy and you're clear, right? Responsible habits, responsible sleep habits, and brain health programming.

That's such a good idea, I think, just for everyone to do. I think that might be something I might try because it's, it's like a little mini brain dump that you could just—

Yes, absolutely. Or even so, you know, we, we say, uh, 30 minutes, you know, put the phone down, do the brain dump before you go to bed. You can talk to your phone now. Hey, This is what's going on. I'll deal with this tomorrow.

Da da da.

Put this on. All right, hey Siri, put this on whatever calendar tomorrow, tomorrow, so I can lay down, put this phone down, and go to sleep. Mm-hmm.

Absolutely. And I like the notepad idea too, because it's not, you're not even reaching for your phone to cause you to get into a loop of distraction.

Absolutely. And, and the other thing you had mentioned too is even the wearable devices that vibrate, that disrupts your sleep.

Mm-hmm.

Because whether you know it or not, it's disrupting your sleep, right? So phys— on a physical level. So, you know, like I mentioned, the rings that vibrate when you stop breathing, you know, I think those are advantageous in the sense of it'll wake you up to get you breathing, but you're still going to have the fragmented sleep. So that has its own other unique sense of issues. So, but again, responsible sleeping habits. This is what we do at ProSomnia Sleep Health and Wellness. This is all we do.

Mm-hmm. There's a— I think that those are great ideas. I'm gonna try definitely to incorporate some of them because I fall asleep next to my phone. I'm probably the exact person you're talking about.

I'm sorry, Layla, what was I talking to you?

But I'm personally, I can just always fall asleep. So I've never been one to luckily struggle with insomnia, but Speaking about sleep data overall, so when do you think that sleep data is actually useful versus when it does actually become counterproductive? And I know you've touched on these a little bit already, but are there anything else or any other things that come to mind?

Yeah, so with the sleep data, I do believe it's very, very helpful in identifying potential sleep issues or patterns of sleep issues. Especially when it comes specifically to sleep apnea, when people stop breathing. However, it's important to also take that, how do you feel? But there's other data you can consider as well. There, you know, it's great that we also can, you know, use the heart rate. We can see what our heart rate would look like throughout the night. We can see what our blood saturation looked like. You know, we could, there's other parameters we can look at to see how was that night's sleep. So, from that, and then we go to optimize. How can we do better? Is this a trend? Do I stop breathing at the same time every night? Do I, you know, do I take my medication at this particular time and I notice that an hour later this happens or I'm waking up, especially going to the bathroom? You know, the sleep data shows that, okay, I got up, I went to the bathroom and this happened and I couldn't go back to sleep for this amount of time. You know, those are things that are important identifiers to help contribute to how you feel overall, as long as we use that information appropriately. It doesn't mean anything if we have this data and we're not doing anything about it, right? And so that's when it becomes harmful of the sense of when it creates anxiety. Mm-hmm. The anxiety is from us not doing anything about the data. Or we realize that the data isn't where we think it should be, right? No matter how we feel, when you disconnect how you feel from what the data is telling you, that's when it can become harmful.

Mm-hmm.

Um, and then from the respect of the actual ramifications of being exposed to that data, the blue light, you know, and how that affects us and how that data affects us and our habits. of using our phone and doom scrolling and eliciting those neurological responses. That's when it becomes harmful.

Those are such good points that I would've never even thought about in terms of, for example, if you got up, went to the bathroom or those things and how those are actually like affecting your sleep and overall health.

Right.

So that way I could say, I think that that's great.

Yeah, for sure.

This is changing my whole mind and Solve problems.

I hope so. That's what we're here for. That is absolutely what we're here for.

Absolutely. So what are some practical ways to reclaim bedtime from tech?

Well, again, as we progress more and more with this data, you know, it's absolutely important that we become more cognizantly aware of how we're using it and how it's affecting us, right? Some helpful points is if you use this data Make sure you have a plan in mind. Don't just happen to be scrolling through and I happen to see that my sleep data is off. No, let me take a look. I'm feeling a little sleepy today. I'm feeling a little under the weather on a regular basis. All right, let me take a look at my sleep. Have I been sleeping well? No, I've been having a lot of nightmares. All right, let me check my sleep data. Yeah, that makes sense. Let's look at that. You know, so those are some things to be prepared. When you get this data, what are you going to do with it? Are you trying to optimize your sleep? Are you concerned about your sleep? Whatever that is, be prepared on how to use that data and start implementing the secondary effects, the habits of using the phone. But we absolutely say put the phone down 30 minutes before it's time to go to bed. You want to be asleep in bed by 10 o'clock? Put it down at 9:30. Yes, put it down. All the— turn off the notifications. That's another one that will disrupt your sleep, wake you up at night, and create unnecessary anxiety. Granted, we all have kids, family members, loved ones that we're concerned about that maybe I'll— I get it. But I don't need to know that my Netflix bill is going to be charged. At 2 o'clock in the morning, right? So let's, let's turn off the notifications. I know it sounds so simple, but it does affect and start using, you know, those, uh, I just drew a blank, but where you can just pause it at night, right?

Mm-hmm.

That you use that feature on the phone where you don't receive any notifications. You don't have to maybe go through all of them because you need to know what's going on at work. Okay, fine. If you're on call, get it, no problem. But not on a regular basis. The silence mode. You know, do not disturb mode. That's what it is.

Do not disturb. And I'm pretty sure that there is a setting that you could put all your notifications on do not disturb except for certain ones.

Absolutely. Another great idea. Another great idea. It's those things you want to minimize as many things and people that will interrupt your sleep at night. Your bed partner. Your bed partner's wearable sleep device, their sleep apnea machine. You know, those are— let's talk about the people who have to sleep with the people who use sleep apnea machines.

It's a whole nother thing. Right?

So these are all things that we don't think about when we consider bringing all this data into our bedroom.

Mm-hmm. That's a— that's so— that's a really good thing to think about completely. And I know I hate notifications, so I have it on do not disturb, but It's, it, you definitely should have all those things. Like you said, your Netflix bill, you don't need to worry about, but figure out those settings, I feel like is so important too. And speaking of that, so are there any tech tools that you actually recommend? So, you know, if used responsibly, what are your recommendations?

Absolutely. I, I do. I, I'm not opposed to them. I, I definitely, I don't wanna give that perception, like I said. I mean, anything that will monitor you. If you feel like, look, you know, you know, I'm gaining a little weight, you know, let me see. You know, my boyfriend's been nudging me that my ribs are sore, you know, because he's been nudging me a little bit too much because I gained some weight and I'm now I'm snoring. You know, I never used to snore at night. He don't know what he's talking about. Let me see.

Mm-hmm.

Well, okay, fine. Maybe, you know, that type of thing. Or, you know, I, again, I'm not opposed. Use your phone. I like to play my games before I go to bed, but 9:30, hard stop, the phone's going over here. Just let's just start implementing. Let's start being cognizantly aware of how we're using these devices, all of them. I'm a huge fan of listening to the music to wander off to sleep. I love that. For Somnia Sleep, our members, they have tracks that we send them to help go to sleep. So, yeah, and we do the bedtime stories. So, we kind of in your ear, you know, the AirPods, but we try to keep it reasonable to where you don't have to use your phone and the story or the song will just end.

Mm-hmm.

So, the apps that give the songs, we're not sponsored by Calm, but Calm is actually really great. You know, we have those. We actually use the BrainTap. We use that for the neuromodulating to learn how to go to sleep again. You know, that helps with visual and audio and visual sensory mechanisms to help you fall asleep better. And we also offer that at ProSomnia Sleep Health and Wellness as well. So there's— it serves its purpose. We just have to put it, you know, in its appropriate place because this is new. This is a new issue.

Absolutely. And I like that too. I've— not with Um, a specific app or anything, but listening to that relaxing music or white noise or the sound of rain for those few times.

Yeah.

I know personally I haven't been able to sleep. It's, and I feel like it does give you such a better sleep. Yeah. You'll drop into a deeper sleep.

Yeah.

Oh, and beyond any tech tools, are there any other things that you can think of that might be helpful to go along with being like responsible? beyond just tech? I know people say like humidifiers or things like that. Are there anything else that you can think of that comes to mind?

Yeah, I think overall is, um, you know, we're like, you know, we talked about it briefly. We're moving too fast. AI is going, all this other stuff. I think the most important thing is step back and listen to your body. We need to learn how to listen to our bodies again and consider our brain health with all of this. Because if we're not sleeping, we're— we definitely don't have healthy brains. So, and then how does that impact with the utilization of all these AI and electronics? How does that impact our brain health? So, I, you know, I love the whole let's de-stress, let's— our fight— put our appropriate neurotransmitters where they're supposed to be. Don't have our fight neurotransmitters on high when we're supposed to be in bed.

Yeah.

You know, and so don't deplete our flight hormones, our dopamine. We need that dopamine depletion. We need to back up. We're on dopamine overload. We gotta, we gotta get a handle on that. The sleep medications, there's a huge sleep addiction, sleep medication addiction going on that we need to start talking about because ironically, again, the medications are causing insomnia. You know, so it's, it's so much that we really, really need to start getting a handle on. So my, my number one advice is get a handle on stress management and learn how to de-stress before you go to bed. We're not supposed to be all, you know, hypervigilant at night.

Mm-hmm.

So just stress management techniques. I, like I said, I love the music, huge fan of, you know, like candles and lights, Light lighting, yellow lights, you know, those type of things, those nighttime night lights, or you, you even have the nighttime mode on some lights or even your phone. Start using that. You know, just let's just bring it down.

And the, the night shift on, I know I have an iPhone, but I'm sure they have it on other phones as well. But that's something that I have it set up actually at a certain time. Every single day, it will just go into night mode. So even if you are on your phone, it's the lower setting, the lower light.

Absolutely.

And that's scheduled, and you can schedule it for different days. So I think that that's—

Absolutely. Yeah, for sure. Start using those sleep modes in your phone. I can't blame the app. They put everything in place, but we're not using it, right? Let's bring awareness that they're there. Let's start using these. These do not disturbs, let's start bringing it down. Let's start putting the phones— let's use the nighttime mode. Let's put a notepad. Let's do a brain dump before we go to sleep. Let's put some awareness on the brain health with all these sleep and data devices.

Absolutely. Like we said, use responsibly. So they're there. Just you have to figure out how to use them responsibly for you. And how does prosomnia sleep therapy help those who sleep is now maybe broken by design from tech overexposure?

Yeah. So, because we look at brain health and the neurological perspective of sleep, we do that. So, we use anesthesia to get people into those deep REM sleep stages that they've been unable to obtain on their own for whatever reason. We do that in a safe and controlled environment with trained anesthesia professionals so they can really rebalance From a neurological perspective, rebalance that adenosine sleep pressure and rebalance that so we can get to a point where we can reset our minds from a sleep state. And that's how we help them with personality sleep therapy. But then, like I said before, everyone has their own personalized sleep plan because everybody's different, right? Their sleep issues are their own. So, we help them, we guide them, we provide the additional therapy. With sensory and visual neuroplasticity and reestablish that neuroplasticity. And so that's the therapy to get your mind to know how to get back into REM sleep and deep sleep on its own without a wearable device letting me know that I got there.

Absolutely. That's so important. And I know someone who considers themselves to be a night owl, I think that this is something that was so important for me. So here I know A lot of people listening are probably going through their own nighttime behaviors and adjusting things. So I think this is such a good episode. And for anyone who is listening, if you've ever been wondering or feeling, if you've ever wondered why you still feel exhausted after 8 hours in bed, maybe this is why. I think that this is super helpful. So if your sleep score is tanking and your mind's racing at midnight, or if you wake up more connected to your phone than your own body, then maybe it's Maybe it's not you, maybe it's the algorithm, right? So remember, good sleep isn't tracked, it's lived. So step away from the screen, tune into your body, and trust that sleep, when protected, will return. So Nyree, thank you for another eye-opening conversation. And to everyone listening, share this episode with the night owl in your life, and don't forget to leave us a review if this helped you rethink your own sleep tech habits. So.

Thank you.

Until next time, listeners and Nyree, sleep well and be rested.

Stay rested, my friends.