Make MILLIONS Wholesaling Real Estate with This Repeatable Strategy

No matter who I pay, like, they all have good ideas, but it's like the implementation is really where you make the money or where you make the change. It's like you taking action. And I always used to pay people because I'm like, oh well, maybe they'll give me something that I don't know that will change everything for me. It's like, no, I paid a lot of people.

Hello and welcome to another episode of The Owner Meeting. I'm Christian Osgood, your channel host today, joined by Nathan Payne. Nathan, welcome to the pod, my friend.

Well, thanks for having me on here, Christian. Appreciate it.

There we go. I am, uh, I'm podcasting from back from Washington State right now. If you guys notice, I have a very disorganized bookshelf behind me. I am at my mother-in-law's house, uh, recording about 5 episodes today, uh, so we don't have the normal setup. However, however, very, very, very excited to have everyone here. Uh, Nathan, interesting, interesting guy. He's built a business in the flipping wholesaling space. This is someone who knows how to do the active income part of real while I am a buy-and-hold guy, there is another side to the real estate. If you guys didn't know, by the way, this is a side note, but you can actually wholesale a deal to yourself. So there's ways to hold and have liquidity. But he has a volume business. He's taught a ton of people how to replicate his strategy. I want to hear what's worked for Nate and why he built his business. We're gonna hear all about it here and best practices for yourself here on The Owner Meeting. Nathan, talk to me a little bit about your business for those who aren't unfamiliar with Nathan Payne, uh, what is the cool shit that you have pulled off?

Dang, man, that's, uh, you know, we— I could talk about some stuff that I've done, but, um, I guess like the cool things that I've done in my business is I went from $0. I had nothing, uh, when I first started my business. Um, I told my wife, I was like, hey, I'm gonna get into real estate. And she was like, okay, well, go ahead, but you know, I'm not You're not taking any money to do it. Go figure it out. So I started with $0 and I was able to build up to doing millions of dollars in transactions. And now, I teach people how to do it. And I do it as well with my clients and my students that I work with. But that's basically where I'm at right now is I teach people how to do it and I do deals with them.

I remember being at a point in my business where I had that conversation with my wife, "Hey, I want to take on tens of millions of dollars of debt while we're buying tons of real estate and it's definitely going to work." I remember those conversations. What did the conversation look like with your wife other than just like, hey, you can't borrow money for it? Like, what does that actually look like to sit down with a spouse and be like, hey, you know, we don't really have any money right now, or we have very little money right now, and I want to go off on this real estate adventure? What does that look like?

You know, the conversation wasn't too hard for me because before I got into real estate investing, I was like 27, and I had done door-to-door sales for like 6 years. So I had saved up quite a bit of money from like running teams and having that sales experience. So I told my wife, hey, I don't want to do door-to-door anymore. We just got married at that time. And I said, I want to do real estate so I can— we can live in one area, one area, because door-to-door is very like transient. You got to go to different markets all the time. And so I told her this and she's like, that's fine. Just you got to go figure it out. Like, you're not going to take any of our money to do it. Just go and figure it out. So that was, you know, we had money saved. So it wasn't like, hey, if I didn't bring in income, we were in major trouble. Right? Like, I— we had savings, so we were, we were okay. And my wife works— worked at the time, she was a dental hygienist, so she made decent money, makes good money. So, you know, it wasn't, it wasn't like what you guys think where you like, you burn the bridge— they say burn the boats, and then you, you got like nothing to lean back on. I was fortunate to like— I was fortunate to have, you know, uh, something to lean back on if it didn't work. So that the conversation wasn't that difficult in my situation.

Okay. Well, the funny thing is you see people with success on both ends. Burn the ships has worked for many people, but man, if you can avoid that situation, it feels a lot more comfortable. So, okay.

Right.

You go out, you decide you're going on this adventure, you start wholesaling. Where did you first start finding success? How long did it take you to find the first deal? And when did it really start clicking for you?

You know, it took about 3 months. I would say a month and a half, like 3 months to get my first deal. But the first month and a half, you think you're doing stuff, but you're really not taking any action. You just think you are. So it took me about 3 months total, but a month and a half of really taking action to get my first deal. We were cold calling, me and my buddy that did the business, we're business partners, we started together. We were cold calling the expired listings list in Utah. And we eventually ran into a guy named Donald from Croatia that was in pre-foreclosure. And he was just gonna let his house go. He was just kind of gave up. He was like, "Yeah, I don't care." But we were like, "Hey man, we can buy your house.", and you don't have to have foreclosure on your record, all that stuff. So, uh, it just took massive action. And the funny thing is it still takes massive action to this day. You know, nothing's really changed. When you want to do an active business like that, you have to keep your pipeline, uh, full. You have to continue to take action. It's, it's pretty much the most unpassive thing you could ever do is wholesaling real estate. It's very active. You got to take action nonstop.

Wholesaling real estate is very interesting. So wholesaling real estate, for those who are unfamiliar with the, the actual strategy, which I don't think as many of you, but wholesaling, essentially what you're going to be doing is you're going to be putting something under contract. You're going to sell the contract prior to close. So unlike flipping, where you close on the property, you make an improvement, and then you sell it for more than you bought it for, in this case, you don't actually close. Your money is made off of the hustle. It is made off of putting together a truly good deal and then passing it on to someone who wants to be the owner. Now, as you're doing this flipping, do you hold any of your properties today? Do you, do you build a portfolio or are you all focused on the active income?

I've held properties and I have some rentals, but mainly it's been on the active income. And then I've grown a coaching business which teaches people how to do that. And that's kind of like you would say more passive in that sense, even though that's not really passive really either, like teaching people how to do this. But no, I don't, I don't hold very many. Properties. That just has not been my goal. Um, it's just basically building up the business and then teaching people how to do it.

And I think that's really important. I've heard this from most people who are in the wholesaling business. A lot of them don't go out and own a lot of rentals, and there's nothing wrong with that. Now, I— and this is coming from a serial buy-and-hold guy of hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of rentals— the reason that I like this is because you focused on the core business. You've understood what the objective is. You've built a business That spits out money, and you can do whatever you want with your money. You can invest in whatever you want, but you have built a repeatable model, and the model is not based on holding real estate. The model is based on volume of contracts. So you have systems and processes and jobs and employees, and you can— you get— the nice thing with this is you can stack it like you can any company. You get momentum, you can add employees, you can add features, you can add more lead lists, more leads. It is a scalable company. That is relatively simple and your income is not from rental properties. So I actually do like hearing from wholesalers. They're like, I built my engine. You don't need to add being a great real estate operator to that engine because it has nothing to do with it. It is a paper job. You are selling paper.

Yeah, yeah, that's exactly right. So most people get—

people give wholesalers grief for that. And I want to point out, you built the business the way that that business was designed to be built. That's very important. Exactly.

Yeah. This is like I got into real estate because I was like, oh, I want to get into real estate. But this is not so much a real estate business. This is a sales and marketing business. Now, a lot of people get into this and they like it because they can like cherry-pick, right? Like, oh, you know, I just found this great deal. Let me just keep it myself. So that is a good thing about building this kind of business is you get— you could have first dibs on the properties that you want to keep. It just has not been something that, you know, I've done personally. I've kept a couple, but it's not something, you know, owning a bunch of rentals and doing that just hasn't been something I really cared about or an interest of mine. That's it. It's just building businesses, working, helping people build it. That's what I've enjoyed doing. Maybe one day I'll want to build that portfolio, but not, not really a focus of mine. And it does take quite a bit of focus to build a big business, a good business like this. It's very— you have to focus. Really hard.

One of the biggest mistakes I made in my business is I'm a multi-family guy and I bought a hospitality project, absolutely amazing boutique resort on the water, foothills of the Olympic Mountains. Does really, really well. We just hosted an amazing event there and it completely distracted from the rest of my business. So even though it was technically a good idea, like financially it was a good idea, strategically it slowed down the rest of my business. It distracted other members of my team. It was not tactically, it does not vertically integrate anywhere into where the actual goal was. It was a shiny object that financially works, but I would argue I've lost a lot of money buying that because that was all time I could have spent on my core business. So I do actually like hearing this. There's a lot of ways to make money. Do the one that you're good at and you enjoy and that has repeatedly already made you money like that. That is a sensible thing. I think that a lot of people, syndicators, flippers, wholesalers, there's so many people in real estate who get a bad rap for not owning real estate. And at the end of the day, you're doing what functionally works the best for you that you're enjoying doing. If you don't want to operate real estate, don't buy real estate. It's a misconception I think a lot of people can get over. So if you guys are listening right now and it's the first time you're hearing like, wait a second, Christian's saying don't buy real estate. Yeah, if you don't want to buy real estate, don't buy real estate. That'd be a dumb thing to do. Uh, align the goal to your absolute— yeah, yeah, just sell it. Yeah, line the goals to your objectives.

Yeah, just wholesale it to someone else that wants it. Exactly.

And you've had a good system to do this.

So I've wholesaled multifamily to people too. It's like, oh, I could have kept on to that, but I'll wholesale it. Uh, so it really just depends what aligns with what you want in life.

Exactly. And so as you're doing this, roughly, how much volume, volume are you personally doing or your company doing in a month? What is an average transaction volume for you?

So I used to have a bigger— I used to do way more volume. And I'll explain, like, I'll come back to this. So when I was at like the peak of my business, we were doing like 8 to 10 transactions a month. And, you know, that, that was good. But in order to do that kind of volume, you need a big team, right? You have a lot of overhead, you have a lot of marketing spend. And And I realized that, you know, that wasn't something that I really wanted either, just like to have the overhead and all the teams and like the managing of all the processes and systems. So I've taken my company down to like me and a partner and a virtual assistant. And we do, you know, 1 to 2 transactions a month and we get to keep more money, less overhead, less, you know, I would say headaches. So, so when you look at it like sometimes volume can seem like, oh, you're making more, but that's not always the case. When you do a lot more, you got to pay a lot more. So yeah, I don't do that. I don't do that many transactions because like that's my choice. I'd rather make bigger margins and do less work versus doing a ton and having, you know, I would say more risk.

And that I agree with. Deal quality is everything. And you don't want to waste your time with things that take a lot of time and don't make a lot of money. And that is something that you're going to see a lot of the online gurus do. As they're gonna— I could think of a few. We won't name-drop them because neither of us want to be sued. But there's some online gurus where, oh yeah, no, we're doing 3, 4 wholesales every day. We have this huge company. If you actually dig into some of these companies, their deal quality and what their actual margin is on their deals, it's not really worth the time they're putting into those deals. It's not.

No, I've been there. I've been there. And it's, you know, the, the year that I did like the most deals, the most volume, like was not the year they made the most money, right, that I got to take home. And it was probably the most stressful. So you really, again, you got to look at like what you want in life. Like I just moved to Canada. I live in north of Toronto on like a farm. That's what I wanted. I wanted a chill lifestyle. I wanted to help people succeed and I wanted to be debt-free, right? So do I need to like build some crazy organization that has tons of employees to do that? Not— no, I didn't, you know. So, you know, it's really what you want. And if doing 3 wholesales or 4 wholesales where you can make $150,000 a year and that's what you want, that helps you accomplish your goal, there's no reason to buy, you know, 1,000 doors if you can accomplish it with 3 to 4 deals a year, right? So it just, again, aligns with what you want. Efficiency.

And that's very much why I wound up in multifamily. I was like, people do the single-family house buying thing and they have to do 100 transactions to get 100 rentals, and it's just ridiculous. I mean, I do like— I transact 2 times a year and it is a full living. I don't syndicate. There you go. I just— I, I find a few people who want to invest in real estate, we get together, we buy a couple of deals, those deals add to our income, and my income goes up every year. That your model resonates a lot with the way that I do buy and hold. It's What is the most efficient way to hit the goal? So you've done two things here that I think everyone needs to listen to. You actually knew where you were trying to head, right? Debt-free, financial freedom. I want to move to Canada, which is insane to me. I live in Texas, which is the opposite of Canada. But the— you set your goals to what you are trying to do, and then you built your business as the most effective route to go from A to B? What is the least amount of transactions I can do to have the amount of income that I want? And how do I build the system and process that let me do that repeatedly from anywhere? Exactly.

And you said it yourself, like you're saying exactly like we're on the same wavelength here. It's like, do what you want and build the life you want, but don't just always take the advice of the gurus that like make it— they try to act like it sounds sexy to do 4 to 5 deals a month— sorry, a day. 4 to 5 deals a day. That is not sexy. That sucks. I can tell you right now, that's, that's a real— unless you want that, that sounds terrible.

That sounds horrible. Big business is not for most people. I don't think that's the goal. And now I have companies that are, you know, that are more employee intensive than I sincerely enjoy the competitive nature of a sales and marketing company that does actually does very well. But that's because I specifically enjoy that type of competition. That is not a, hey, I need this for financial freedom. If your goal is freedom, volume is not what you're after. You're after quality of leads, the least amount of activities for the most amount of yield. And I don't think most people realize that. I think people get suckered in by, yeah, the high volume. Oh my gosh, you can be doing all this money every day. It's like, if you sit down, do you really need to have the yacht and the supercar and you know, 50 employees working around the clock. It's like very, very, very few people actually want that. You've done a good job of identifying that. It sounds like pretty early in your career, which is, which is fantastic. Most people take a long time to figure that out.

Well, yeah, well, getting married, being married to my wife and me working very, very hard in the very beginning, and like, till like 6, 7, 8 o'clock, and she would just every day be like, stop working so hard, stop working so hard. So eventually, I was like, Fine. You don't want me to work that much? I'm not going to work that much. And that's basically what's helped me is like aligning my goals with hers and knowing what we want and then realizing like, even if I keep going and go like what, like I was working nonstop and building something crazy, she doesn't even want that. She just, she just wants my time. So that enabled my wife enabled me to like realize, okay, that I'm just working for my own goals at this point. Like I wasn't even working for her. So I stopped and Yeah, I was able to kind of chill a little bit.

Isn't marriage awesome? It changes. It changes so much. When you have, when you have two people coming together and you're setting your goal, it's so much different than being a single person in business when you're like, okay, the objective needs to work for both of us. Do you have kids yet or want them? You don't necessarily need to have them, but— Yeah, yeah.

I have a little baby girl. She's amazing. And it's so fun to spend time with her. And that's, that's the amazing thing about living here. So in Canada, did I necessarily like want to live in Canada? Not necessarily, not really. But, um, like my wife is from Canada, her family's all here, you know. So I was like, let's go up there, get near your— yeah, yeah. Like, but I wanted to get near her family and I just— I work in right now, as you can see, like I'm in a mechanic shop. I bought a farm that has a mechanic shop. Like I've worked out of my— this shop I'm turning— I just moved here like a couple months ago, so I'm making it nicer. But, um,. And I just go home and I say, what's up to my baby? And we hang out and hang out with my wife. And that's, that's the life I want now. Maybe it'll change in a little bit, but just do what you want.

Like create the life you want. And the amazing thing is it doesn't take— it's not get rich quick. Like wholesaling is not get rich quick, but a lot of these businesses that you can set up, there's a ton of them. It's not even just real estate, but there are so many different ways where you can, in a relatively short period of time, reach financial freedom. You set up a business that— exciting, dude. I just had a baby boy 6 weeks ago. That's my first. So it, it's amazing how these things change the way that you value your time and the efficiency that you run your business. It's like— it's true. I'm a guy, I've worked 16 hours a day for a long time, like 12 to 16 hours very consistently for a very sustained period of time. First time in my life, I'm like, I'm like, man, you know, you know, I kind of want to do— I just kind of want to go on a walk with my little baby boy, my wife.

That'd be nice. That's it, man. That's it. So yeah, you got it right now. You're about to just see what, what life's really— the, what the really important thing in life is, is just time, time with your family. Yeah.

And it's, and it's absolutely huge. So this podcast is taking a fun turn. So, okay. You've built an efficient business, an efficient way to do it. You're wholesaling the right way. You're going after quality deals, not quantity, which is the first thing that people need to do in their business. Um, and we've covered why you do that. It's because if you want time freedom, you actually have to create freedom of time. Efficiency really matters. Don't add steps to your financial freedom. Know where you're going, then get there. Um, you've done that, right? You've been, you've been teaching this for a while. What, what made you excited about teaching wholesaling?

Why is it important to you? So if it wasn't for, um, teachers not making good money like in the States, I probably would have been a teacher. So when I started getting into this, I was like, um, yeah, let me, let me get into, like, let me get into real estate. And I started paying for a lot of coaching, and I saw things I didn't really like in the coaching space as I started getting mentors. Um, so when I had enough skill set and, and had the experience, I was like, let me teach this. And it just aligned with what I really like. I like impact. I like teaching and helping, you know, serving others. So that was really like, first of all, I wanted to be a teacher in the first place, but then when I had something I could teach, I was like, well, let me do that. So it just kind of circled back to what I really wanted to do.

Two important things there. There's a lot of online gurus who want to just rip money out and they don't have a heart for teaching. I could tell just listening to you, you actually do want to teach. Yeah. You've set up something where it's like, hey, I want to be around people. I want to make this happen. That— see, that's what it should sound like right there. It's whenever it's, hey, I want to build this big competitive community. There's just— there's a lot of garbage out there. The other thing he said is you've you've seen things getting coaching that you didn't like in the industry. What are some of those things?

Well, from what you just said is, is basically what I saw, like people like looking at it as a, as a business in the sense of like, let's make money versus like, let's serve and let's help people progress, right? Like, I would join programs where my, my, my mindset or what I thought I was getting out of it was like a relationship with the person, the coach, right? But then you get in and you, you see that the fulfillment is like a course and you barely get to talk to the person that you really were, you were paying to like get to know, right? Or get to learn from. So when I saw that, I was like, man, my coaching is going to be more like people who work with me are going to be able to work with me. And it might not be that efficient when it comes to like a business model, right? Like you can't get that many people through, but that's what I wanted. So, um, and that's what I was paying for. So that's what I do. People that work come into my program, they actually get to get mentored and learn from me.

Because that's, that's what they want. That is the most important thing that I did in my group, Multifamily Strategy. That was— that, that is the core thing of— I took course after course after course and no one was teaching what I wanted to learn. And those who were doing that thing weren't accessible even after you purchased their course. That was the number one issue that had me go, we, we have to go out and do better. And that was the reason that we started this entire podcast, The Owner Meeting. I want people to be able to connect with people who are in the field doing the thing that they say they're doing. So I love that you're teaching this directly. How do you attack the scalability problem with the fact that you have finite hours in a day as a coach and the more people join your course? I found this tension between I don't want to limit the number of people who can be here, but as we have more success, more people are attracted. How do you continue what, what method have you put together to allow people to have access to you while still being able to scale an education system?

Uh, I would say setting the proper expectations, right? Like, uh, when you're, you're able to be reached out, when people can reach out to you, if they have too many, if you're getting overwhelmed, they say, hey, I can answer a couple of these questions, but hop on the weekly call where I'll be there and I can answer more in depth. So I think just setting the proper expectations, especially if they know it's you and you're giving them of your time, like you, they gotta, I think I try to make it known to them like, hey, like I can only do so much, but we have these other things in place for you guys as well to help you out. But like, for me, this is when I'm available. Perfect.

So, so you guys have a weekly call and then you have— I assume people have direct access to you to ask questions as long as, you know, don't, don't abuse it, obviously. And I have a very similar thing. It's like if you have a question that the whole group is going to benefit from and it's obviously not an urgent question, It's like if you can wait one day and everyone can learn from it, I'd prefer to teach that. We do, we do 3 times a week calls, uh, right, that I'm on. But it's, if it is a question that can serve the whole group, I'll answer the question and then we'll go more into depth in a group call. And that is the best way to serve a larger community of people, um, right? As long as you don't, as long as you can avoid, you know, sometimes you get like clingy people, you're like, yeah, you got to set a couple boundaries, don't call me every hour, um, Right. We have 1,000 people going through the program a day. I, I, but yeah, yeah, I think that's really important. Set the expectations and then make yourself available and make yourself consistently available the same way every time regardless of scale. And if you can, if you can do that well, just like a classroom teacher, right? They, they have to teach 30 kids. It's not private tutoring. That would be insanely more expensive and insanely more costly to you. But it's coming up with a system just like a classroom, which is like, how do I best serve all of the people who are currently here in this community? How do we answer questions? And it feels like you do have a pretty good answer to that. If they, they have access to you and you're driving the best content through the community so that everyone can learn from the best questions, right? Yeah.

And I have a system set up as well as like, you know, a lot of the questions people have is they'll get to it as they go through the program. And so I have a system where if they go through the program after specific, I call them guides because it's through Facebook at the moment. So if they go through a specific guide at the very end, like after completing it, they have a checkpoint call. So I usually like, hey, you book your checkpoint call after you go through guide 1. And if you have those questions, you need to go through that guide first. You need to go through that training. So I try to keep it within like you know, answer the questions when they're ready to handle them. Because, you know, a lot of people might come in, they might want answers immediately to stuff, and you're like, hey, you got to go through this process because I'm teaching you in a specific— for a specific way, like in a specific process. So, um, a lot of people jump the gun, and you just got to kind of say, hey, you got to go, go through the whole thing. It'll help.

Well, this is interesting too, because application is more important than the information, but you can't apply information that you don't have. So if you have a structure in a system Personal opinion, I think in any course or mentorship, even though the information is usually why people initially make a decision to sign up, the information is probably 10% or less of the total value. It's what systems are in place to help us apply. It's not— especially in anything real estate, there's no secrets. There's best practices, there's things that we've learned along the way, But there's no secrets in real estate. You can learn a lot about creative finance, about wholesaling, about flipping, about syndication, about whatever it is that you want to do in real estate. You can learn a lot about it on YouTube. However, the people who go through YouTube University don't typically go out and become very, very successful at the thing. And the difference really is there is a community aspect, there's an accountability aspect, there's a system that they can go into. And it, it's a culture thing. People are tribal. You get into a group of people who are successfully doing the thing, applying the information, and that's really the system. So I, I, I do like that structure, right? You go through the information cuz you need the information to apply it. Now that you have it, we're gonna do a checkpoint and we're going to connect and we're gonna help make sure that you take the action steps to go from A to B, that you're having to— this is the type of mentorship group or course that one can take and actually have success? Because you're saying all of the important points. You have direct accessibility to the one who has done the thing you want to do. There is a community aspect where people are coming together. And that was the number one thing that we had to learn in our program is having a national call or having a community piece is probably the most important, most successful piece of it. And it all flows out of the information so that everyone is at least on the same page speaking the same language.

I love this setup. Yeah, everything you said, I agree with. No, I love it. I love exactly what you're like, everything you're saying, I agree with because, uh, action, you know, you learn to do by doing, right? So action is the key and the information, like you said, it's, it's everywhere. ChatGPT alone, like you get all the information you need, but is it set up in a system in a way for you to take the action to learn and actually apply it? That's the hard part. Like, information no longer is that difficult to access. Like, it's super easy, but doing it is the hard part.

And that's where having— yeah, and that really is the point of these. And so in my opinion, from what you are telling me, having never been through your course, the way that you are set up is the way that people typically learn, especially entrepreneurs. There's— you're around people who are doing it. As you're learning, you can't necessarily just immediately do. So you get the information, which is, again, it's a small portion of it, critical portion, but small portion. And then you're around people doing the application and you get to learn from others and you get to learn around others. It's the only way you can really simulate doing. And so now people are actually learning like the way that they're designed to learn. They move forward, they get success, and then once they have success, they can now go off and do what they want to do with their business, which likely looks very different than your goal, which looks different than my goal, which looks different than everyone else's goal. Right, right. This is the type of stuff that I really enjoy talking about. This is, this is how we solve the stupid online guru problem, is you make actual—

I actually changed— yeah, I actually changed the name of my mentorship. I used to call it like the— so my last name is Payne, so I called it the Painless Flipping. I used to call it the Painless Flipping Mentorship, but I changed that because I don't think I actually have a mentorship or a, uh, um, course or anything. I call it an— I'm calling it an apprenticeship because that's really how people learn, right? An apprenticeship is you get to see someone do it, they actually teach you, they watch you do it, they make sure you're doing it correctly, and they help you through the way. They don't just give you all the information and say good luck because that's not what an apprentice does. Or like, like a blacksmith doesn't just show his apprentice, hey, watch me and you'll, you'll be able to figure it out. Like, it takes time, right? You have to work with the people. So we actually help people do a lot of deals. Like, they might be able to find the seller who's motivated, but maybe they're not that good at negotiating the deal yet. Let me, let me step in as the— in the apprenticeship, let me step in and help you take it to the finish line, and let's partner on the deal. So it's a, it's a lot more hands-on, but it's the right—

I think it's the way that people actually really learn. I, I would, I would agree with that. Uh, people need to learn as hands-on as possible.. And since you can't necessarily start by just, you know, immediately doing it yourself and not make any mistakes, you hop in and you get around people who are doing it and you learn it way faster. You make less mistakes. Which brings me to my last question. As you've gone through this business, the worst we ever do our business is when we're starting because you don't know what you don't know. There's stuff we learn along the way. Big part of the owner meeting here is something I call the stupid tax, but it is the price that we pay for not knowing the things that we didn't know when we got started. For some people, it's you burn a friendship or a relationship. Some people, it's actually, hey, you lose a lot of money. But along your journey building this business, what has been the most expensive lesson that you have learned?

I would say paying people like me or paying people in general like coaches or anything like for like for something that's just going to blow your mind or thinking it's they're going to give you some sort of information, like information that, like, just information in general that will change like the game. Because one thing I've learned is like, no matter who I pay, like, they all have good ideas, but it's like the implementation is the really where you make the money or where you make the change. It's like you taking action. And I always used to pay people because I'm like, oh, well, maybe they'll give me something that I don't know that will change everything for me. It's like, no, I paid a lot of people and it's really just the way that they take action and what they're doing, not necessarily like what they know. Does that make, does that make sense what I'm trying to say? Like, yeah, paying for some sort of special, uh, silver bullet. There you go. Like people paying for the silver bullet. There's, there's no silver bullet. It all works. You just got to take action. So quit paying people to give you a silver bullet and just, just take action and find somebody that you like and uninformed optimism as well. I would say that is like if you have uninformed optimism and you're jumping from one thing to the next and not staying focused, like you're always going to be broke because you're, you're never going to get good at anything. So avoid that. Avoid uninformed optimism and just trying to pay people that you think will make your life easier. It's—

it doesn't exist. I, I absolutely agree with that. I have— I've spent a lot of money trying to learn what is the— what is the secret? With one exception, there's a guy and I use him for all my marketing now. His name's— I'll plug him right here. His name is Dylan Vonness, absolute freak of nature. He actually had everything that I needed to run and scale my coaching business when I was trying to figure out how to create multiple funnels to attract the right people who are going to be successful. He's the only person I've ever paid in my life and I paid a lot of people who he's like, I know how to run the business that you want to run, and I can take this piece that you're not good at off of you completely. I have had that happen one time. I have paid a lot of people a lot of money to try to figure out the one thing. It is almost never, outside of that one time, it is almost never going to be some secret thing that you don't know yet that's going to make you rich. There's, you, it's, it's, it's never one thing. So if you're paying to try to get that one nugget or that replicate that one thing that worked for them, you're going to find two things. One, 99 out of 100 times that one thing doesn't even exist, or there's something about them as an individual which made it work for them, which might not even work for you. I've found for me, my suit, like my superpower is that I can listen to people and share relatable points and have a conversation. That results in meaningful relationships where they remember who I am. Like, I've been able to do this owner meeting thing where I just meet with people who've done what I want to do, and they tell me what I wanted to know. And then those tend to be the same people who sell me real estate. Like, I just— I can do that intuitively because that's who I am. That's part of my personality. If you tried to do the same thing the same way, you might not have the same result. So if you took my course and that's all I taught you, it might be completely worthless. It's almost always like the secret things are always like, yeah, it worked for them because they're them though. How do you teach an engineer, like someone who has an engineering mindset? How do you teach them to be successful in real estate if my only skill is being an entrepreneur? If they're not entrepreneurial, they're going to take— they're going to get all the secrets, and they're not going to go out and buy anything because they want systems and processes, and I'm teaching how to source deals. You need to— this goes back to how we learn, but you want to save time and you want to save money. Get around communities of people who are doing things in a repeatable way. Learn the steps, but don't rely on just one thing, or don't even, don't even bother looking for the one thing that's going to make you rich or change your business because it's just, it, it's not there. It, it doesn't happen. That's a great piece of advice, man. That's— amazingly, no one has ever given that piece of advice on this podcast in the last 50 episodes. No, not one person. Uh, that is completely—

yeah, it's a great one. Thanks, man. Yeah, I'm trying to do that because, um, yeah, stops looking, and, and that might like affect the people that join me, but I tell them straight up like, hey, I'm not going to tell you anything that's going to blow your mind. I'm just going to kind guide you along the way and teach you how to take action, because that's what really is going to get you paid.

So that's it. Yeah. And I think that's from— for most people, that is actually enough. You can come in and you can build a business if someone shows you how the business is run and, and they, and they guide you along the way and they make sure that, hey, they give you a little kick in the butt, a little slap on the ass to get you, get you moving. Do the thing. But if you get into these communities, you get into this group, you get into an apprenticeship— I like that word— if you get into these where you have someone who can help push you along and actually just do the thing, none of the— especially in real estate— none of these businesses are overly complicated. Real estate is relatively simple. It's been around for a long time. And I love it when my money's boring. I mean, that is the— there's a lot of things in life that I want to be challenging. I don't want my money to be challenging or overly difficult. I want it to be Simple. I want to understand what I'm doing and I want to do it the same way every single month so that I don't have to worry about the money part. I resonate with a lot of what you said here on this podcast. If people wanted to find you, they wanted to be apprenticed by you, they just had a general question for you, Nathan, where do people find you online?

So I direct everybody to my Facebook group. It's a free Facebook group where I give away everything that I have. There's free courses, free, you know, 90-day action action planners, there's live trainings, there's everything you need, right? Um, it's called the Painless Flipping, uh, just Painless Flipping, and then it's Wholesaling Real Estate Simplified. So just search that, join, we'll connect, and, uh, got a lot of information for you.

So that, that's all, that's all I got. There we go. Well, that will cost you almost no time, especially because I'm linking it below, uh, both in the video description and in the show notes. So whether you're listening on a podcast or you're watching on YouTube, You can see that there. If you want to watch on YouTube, this is on Multifamily Strategy. If you're listening, this is everywhere where podcasts are found. So, uh, no idea where you're listening in, but if you've listened to this whole thing and you haven't liked and subscribed yet, that's kind of insane. Uh, we're doing the owner meeting for you. This is the biggest piece of the business. You want apprenticeship, you're getting takeaways from actual operators every single week. So like, subscribe, join the channel, listen to the owner meeting, and go out and have some owner meetings your own. Meet the people who have done the things that you want to do, and you'll find it's the most efficient way to go out and do them. Thanks, guys, for listening. We'll see you all in the next episode.