Eliminate The Demand

Welcome to A New Life podcast with Pamela Jean, where it's all about empowering women to empower more women. Get ready, friends, to create a new life. And here is your host, Pamela Jean. Hello friends and welcome to this week's episode of A New Life podcast. I am so excited for what we have in store for you today. First of all, it is March 15th. The Self Care Mastery course begins today. I'm so excited about this course. It is 12 weeks long. If you are still interested in becoming part of this Self Care Mastery course, please let me know. I will squeeze you in at the last minute to be a part of this course. Today's episode, we are going to be talking with Kristen Wise. She's the co founder and CEO of the Demand Project. And I'm going to get to her in just a second. I want to let you know, the new series that's going to be starting next week is about codependency. It's going to be about a four to five week series of codependency, identifying if you are a codependent, if you were raised by a codependent, and how that has affected the choices and decisions that you have made for your life today. So look for that new series starting next week. But today I am so excited to introduce our guest speaker for today. The first time I knew of her and I knew of the organization that she had started was back in 2013. I attended a mandatory seminar at the high school that my daughter was going to and her basketball coach required the attendance of all of her students to come and listen to this, this, this random talk on sex trafficking by someone by the name of Officer Jason Wise with a Demand Project. And I, I just thought, really, sex trafficking in Tulsa, Is that even a thing? You know, as a parent, I think you, you, you live in this, this bubble where you don't think that these bad things are lurking in the midst of your kids. And truly my perspective was changed after listening to this talk that I listened to for the first time in 2013. I can remember word for word, many of the things that Jason had shared that day about sex trafficking. And here's what brought it home to me. When I got in the car with my daughter, I asked her, what did you think of tonight's presentation? And she looked at me and said, mom, that could be me. That could have been me. So, friends, today I have with us Kristen Wise. She is the co founder and CEO of the Demand Project. Kristen, thank you so much for being here. I sincerely can't wait for you to share with this community, your work, your mission and everything that the Demand Project is all about. Welcome, Kristin.

Thank you, Pamela. I appreciate being on.

So tell me Kristen, why did you start the Demand Project? What is your why and how did you come up with the name?

So back in 2004, my husband Jason and I, as you mentioned earlier, we were living in Colorado and we were living, you know, a normal, what we thought was a perfect life on the cul de sac with our two kids and doing, and making decent money and doing good. And then all of a sudden we heard a news story and it was about a dad that had raped his two year old little girl. And he videotaped the act and then he put it online for people to watch. And we saw this at the same exact time. The end of the story was that thousands of people logged on to watch this horrific crime against this child. And it was our fist clenching moment. A line in the sand of what are we going to do about this? What can two people in Colorado, he's an honest salesman and I'm a cosmetologist. What can we do without the training needed to make a difference in whatever this is? And remember, it's 2004, so we didn't even know what it was. And it set us on this journey to find out who, who was doing this, why were people watching it and what could two average people do about it. We moved to Oklahoma in 2006, started to investigate and join a very small amount of people trying to make a movement on this. In 28, going into 9, we started with another organization that was just getting off the ground and it was a national organization bringing awareness and education and really focusing on the demand side. Who are the buyers of kids for sex? Who is doing this to our children? And in 2013 is when the Demand Project was born. And because we saw so many gaps in other organizations like they were doing awareness, education and, and some types of restoration, but we wanted to do a wraparound of all of it and that's when the Demand Project was born. And we called it the Demand Project because it's who is demanding sex for kids. If there wasn't a demand for it, there wouldn't be a need to sell them. And that's wow.

Oh, very good. I, you know, I've known the name for so long, the Demand Project, but I had no idea that that is where it stems from. So essentially seeking out who is demanding this demonic information, this trafficking of children, this pornography of children and this exploitation of children. So if there's not. There isn't the demand, then there wouldn't be. We wouldn't need you. We wouldn't need you and Jason doing all of your work.

And we're okay to get worked right out of a job. We are purposing to find a way that we do not have to do this for the rest of our lives.

No kidding. Well, and it just seems like with so much technology in place, it's where you begin. How do you even start, start? And, and that's one thing as a parent, when I heard that talk for the first time in 2013, I remember Jason telling a story of a father from Tulsa whose daughter was drugged at a party and was brought.

Was.

Was just narrowly rescued from being sent into a sex trafficking ring, being shipped to, I think Nashville, I believe is what he said, shipped to Tennessee. That she narrowly missed. Missed that. And I just thought, that could be one of my girls. That could be my girls. And it was terrifying because as a parent, you know, and back in, you know, like you said in 2004 and even in 2013, I just don't think that way. I just don't think that there's really people lurking out there that, that want to do that to my children. So I would really love it, Kristin, if you could dive into, you know, the prevention part of it as from a parental, a parent's perspect.

How.

What do. What don't we know? Because, you know, you can't fix something unless you don't know what you don't know. And there's so much about the prevention that as a mother, I had no idea where to begin. So if you could enlighten us parents out there who are clueless on where, where to start, that would be amazing.

Yes, ma'. Am. Like, I totally agree. Where do you even start? And why don't people understand what's going on? And how could you understand what's going on? And I would say with the Demand Project, the gaps that I was talking about, there was, there was bits and pieces out there starting to become organizations like with prevention and awareness. And there would be a place maybe for restoration, which there still aren't very many, not really prosecution too much, but a little bit. And so and rescue, you know, was. Is out there, but it's not necessarily for sex trafficked victims. So when we started to the Demand Project, we wanted to do prevention, prosecution, rescue and restoration. But prevention was always, it's the first. And there's a reason that it's the first, because it's the most proactive thing that we can do, and then the rest are being reactive. So we believe that proactive is obviously the most important to help people to identify and see and learn and understand. And honestly, Pamela, so many parents try to protect their kids so much that they don't talk to them about what lurks out there. And for you and me and others in a certain age bracket, we didn't. We didn't grow up with a cell phone in our pocket. You know, a cell phone tucked away where we would have a worldwide reach. And I am so glad that I did not, because I would have said too much.

Right. Well, I agree with you on that because I see what, what our children are exposed to. They're not even seeking for bad things. It just is there. And they desensitized to some things. Desensitized in a way that it's like, my goodness, how does that not bother you? Because it has become and dysfunctional, normal. So share with us. Some of this is what blew me away is some of the apps that is literally, if your child is up in their bedroom on their phone at 9 o' clock at night, there is a predator sitting in bed with them through their phone.

Yeah.

So tell us a little bit about that because that, that absolutely about pushed me over the edge.

Yeah. I mean, I have this video in my mind that I hope we can do someday where old man or whoever shows up at the house, knocks on the door and says, hey, I want to hang out with your daughter in her bedroom. And the, the mom says, sure, come on upstairs. Can I get you anything? And let's. The man in the room with your child that's dressed for bed. And. And you, you've invited them in because you don't know. And then the man turns into a person on the screen and the kid is talking to that person, not knowing who it is, maybe knowing who it is and not caring who it is. There's so many scenarios out there of how kids get lured and groomed. But. And this is really Jason's area of the online enticement. Mine is sex trafficking, so mine is when it's happening on the street and the kids are being either lured and groomed by a trafficker that seems to be a boyfriend, or it's a person of trust in their life. Or it went from Jason's area of online enticement over to human trafficking. So I specifically asked him if he could give me a couple of tips on some apps to be aware of. And he said, whisper Kik K I K and Scout S k O U T. So any app that has direct messaging is going to be a possible Predators playground.

Because, Kristen, I'm going to pause you for just a moment. Will you repeat those apps? Because I know, I know there's listeners that are scrambling to write those names down. If you could give the names of those three apps to be aware of as a parent, to really be watchful if your children have these and teenagers have them on their phones to be very aware of these apps. So if you would repeat those three again so our listeners have a chance to jot them down.

Yes. So the first one is Whisper.

Whisper.

Whisper.

Okay.

Second one is Kik K I K. And then the third one is Scout S K O U T. Okay, you can go on.

These are all apps that have messaging capability, is that correct?

That's right.

Okay.

And there's a lot more. And that would, you know, we can talk about it when you want to talk about it, the Aware workshop that Jason does. But there's a lot more apps out there that are concerning and really like Jason always says, anyone that you can dress, direct message someone from that creates an ability to create a relationship. So you can direct message a child and you know how to say the right things and that's what you're trying to do, then you've just been able to encounter that kid that you would never have been in. Able to encounter. Like, we're not worried about the freak on the corner watching the school ground and, and taking them in the middle of the school day or at the end of the school or while they're walking home. We're not. It's not. That is still out there. But this is way beyond that because this goes across the United States into the world world where somebody can. Can be luring and grooming you and they may never meet your child. But if your child sends them a picture, an inappropriate picture, then you. That is the start of exploitation.

Because so essentially, essentially these apps are the invitation into their bedroom.

Yes, ma'. Am. Anywhere in their life. In your safe home, in your child's bedroom. Like, some of the red flags would be, is your child creating a secret world in conversations with someone on their phone or their, their laptop or whatever they use? Even gaming? You know, are they spending too much time alone on the phone? Are they. Do they act weird when you walk up to them? You know, like, you know how kids get real nervous or any one of us if we're lying, you get real nervous and you kind of hide your screen a Little bit. Maybe you're over shopping as a woman or.

Well, but if you're doing something you're not supposed to be doing, you know, that's when, if someone approaches you, you're going to just get a vibe. You'll just know. And, and I think parents are intuitive. We know when something's not right with our children. We may not know exactly what it.

Is, but we know, we know because they're, everything about them changes. I mean, if they take that phone in with them to go to the bathroom or take a shower and it takes forever for the shower to come. Come on. What are you doing in the bathroom? And why do you have your phone in there? Honestly, I know that a lot of kids will say, I'm just listening to music because that's what mine would say. But we don't want them to have phones in the bathroom because you're, you're not completely dressed in the bathroom. And there's a lot of opportunity for things that aren't appropriate to happen and you've got to be watching. You need safe stations in your house for them to, to turn in their tech. You need to get that tech out of their bedrooms, out of their bathrooms. They need downtime instead of screen time all the way. And I love, I heard this one time, get your head out of your apps. I thought that was so funny and I'm like, yeah, really, get your head out of your apps and get into the real life. Like, that's not your reality. But if you're allowing your kid to create a bigger reality within their screen time, you better watch out because you don't get to pick and choose who they're talking to.

Oh my gosh, that's terrifying. And here's, here's a reality to parents, parents that are listening. You are not going to make friends with your children when you take their phone at night. You are, you are not going to get any brownie points. They are not going to think you're a cool parent. But, but you know what? You're not supposed to be when, when your kids are living at home and they are young and they are self sufficient, they're not self sufficient where they depend on you for everything. You are not supposed to be their best friend. That's not what you're there for. You have to play good cop and bad cop. And sometimes bad cop means that you take the phone at the end of the day because you know it's not right now. Is your child going to be mad at you?

Yes.

Are they going to, you know, throw a fit probably. But you are doing what's in their best interest. So please, parents, don't worry. Well, I don't want my kids to be mad at me. Well, you know what, they're going to be mad at you for something. That's what kids, that's what kids do. They don't like their parents because that's the rite of passage as they're growing up. You're not, they're not always going to like you, but at some point they're going to look back and understand that, wow, mom, dad, you did exactly what I needed you to do.

Well, do you want your child, your underage child, that their brain is not fully developed until they're at least the age of 25? Do you want them to be irritated at you for doing your job? That's the reason that your job is to protect them. Or do you want the 25 plus year old to be angry at you for not protecting them because this and this and this might not have happened if you were doing your job?

That is so true, Kristen. Wow, that just gave me a shiver.

Yes, child, say thank you, mama. I appreciate you protecting me all those years ago so that I didn't get raped, I didn't get exploited, I didn't send nudes out there that are a masturbation tool for somebody for the rest of my life on this earth. Thank you. I appreciate you doing your job because I now have a 19 year old and a 17 year old and they do thank me. Now the 17 year old's still iffy, but definitely the 19 year old. And she'll get there, but she understands. And they also, they now judge other parents. Like, I can't believe their parents let them do that. I'm like, right, right. Weren't we brilliant?

Yes. You're welcome.

You're welcome. Thank you very much.

Oh, that's so good.

So it's just a protection. Yes.

Right. So, Kristen, I would love it if you would go into more of the sex trafficking. I know that's your area of expertise, the sex trafficking and the rescue portion of that. So tell me, how does a child get into that ring and how do you get them out?

So really what we're seeing the most of now, you can have scenarios where somebody is taken. Absolutely. And there's unfortunately there's parents out there that take an opportunity to exploit their children and there's other people within the family more distant, like an aunt or uncle that can definitely exploit a child. There can be a friend that can Lure a kid, what we call recruiting, into a crew of people being trafficked. For sure, all of those happen and we've seen them all and we've dealt with every single one of those in the past 17 years of doing this. Every single one of those scenarios. And they're all horrific and they all come with a lot of consequences to how we get to restoration and sometimes never get to restoration. But what we're seeing the most of right now would be a boyfriend scenario where you've got a person saying all the right things. Now let's go back to being a parent. When you're really parenting your kid and they are getting frustrated with you, it doesn't stop there. You have to continue the relationships and continue the communication. You have to do wellness checks on your kids. You have to actually talk to your kids on a day to day basis and ask them piercing questions about so how was your day? And then keep leading and going with those questions. Because if that boyfriend starts saying the all the right things while you're saying all the wrong things, that's a vulnerability part where they could get in with your child. That boyfriend becomes a guy that gets you to get out of your house when he wants you to get out of your house, spend more time with him. They're pretty methodical with their grooming techniques and they take time usually to groom these kiddos to make this girl or boy think that they're the most important person in their whole entire world and they understand everything and nobody else understands. It's very similar to online enticement and it's just in reality. And once they start luring and gifts and, and treating you special, then the love is a way to lure, the drugs are a way to get you addicted. And then you've got a perfect storm when you bring in money and gifts. And what's so devastating about human trafficking, Pamela, is that there's domestic violence in it, there's sexual abuse in it, there's, there's beatings, there's drug addiction, there's, there's mental abuse, there's all kinds of abuse wrapped around with the lies and the manipulation from a trafficker. And it's just devastating for that person when they figure this out. But by the time they figure it out, they've been trained to be their own purposeful product. So by the time all of this grooming, luring and training is going on, this kid actually thinks that they're doing it of their own free will and that they're doing it to keep the person in their life or to keep up the drug habit that now they've grown accustomed or to keep up with the money. Like, there's been situations where the girls and boys are competing for a trafficker's love and attention. And that means you're going out and you're selling yourself more and more and more. And that means that there are buyers who right here in Tulsa, Oklahoma, or just in Oklahoma, that are looking to buy your kid for sex. And so you've got a seller that's a boyfriend, that's a, that's a trafficker. And then you've got a kid that's looking for love in the wrong place and addicted to drugs and addicted to a certain life, thinking they're doing it themselves, selling themselves, whether online or however they're selling themselves. And you've got a buyer that's out there waiting for our kids to offer themselves to them. So by the time they come to us, if we haven't gotten to them before all of this, by the time they come to us, they think that we're interrupting their world like that we're the bad guys.

Because you're the problem.

And you just stopped all the security, the only security that I know, because most of these kids are at risk. They're vulnerable. Maybe they have, they have parents that are upstanding citizens, but they're not paying attention and they're not.

So essentially this starts. If we're looking at the boyfriend scenario or someone, you know, scenario. It starts with driving a wedge between parents and children.

Yes. And that wedge probably is already there. They're just gonna, they're gonna, they're just.

Broadening and broadening and wedging it even deeper and deeper.

And then that is incredible. It gets to be a whole other scenario. So Jason's situation, the wedge might be there and then this kid is, is disappearing and they're going into an, an online world, but mine is. Okay. Now they're in the world and we're gonna lose them. Like, we're physically going to lose them. So me and Jason collide at some point. At some point we will collide. Because you're not just going to ask for pictures, you're going to ask to meet. Every time they ask, like as an undercover cyber investigator, every time they ask to meet him, would they think that he's a 14 year old girl and there's always a meet? Okay, so that's not buying a kid that's online sexual exploitation. But eventually, if, if this goes any further and that kid is now vulnerable, it can Go into human trafficking because there's traffickers, gangs, organized crime, just waiting for these kids to be part of their, their way of making money, their means of getting to money.

Well, and I think on top of that, Kristen, they think it's their means of finding love, being loved and a place to call home. And you know, parenting is not for the weak. Parenting's hard. It's hard. And as parents we don't want to disappoint our kids. We don't want them mad at us. We don't want them to be angry and you know, have the knockdown drag outs. And I'm not saying as a parent I did everything right because goodness knows I've made my share of mistakes as well with my children. But I can say that being friends with my child when they were children was never a thing. I didn't get to grow a friendship with my kids until after they grew up and have moved out and have their jobs and are self sufficient. Then we get to turn that corner into this beautiful, beautiful adult, adult friendship which is so cool and so amazing. But during, during the, the raising of junior high and middle school and high school, you know, I've always loved my children but you know, you don't always like them every day because they can be little hard to be around now.

I got too like with Hannah, we look like we're Twinkies half the time. Like we're walking around and she's got her arm through my arm or we've got our arm around each other and we spend a lot of time together in. And we have for. I didn't like what was going on in school. I didn't like all the confusion in school and where kids were were going and the bullying and all this stuff. So we pulled her, we pulled her and we put her in epic. And I decided we're going to get rid of this life that you were going, this path you were going down and we're going to interrupt everything and we're going to start new. And I am so glad that we took the time and we sacrificed our own personal time to really wrap around this kid that is now just brilliant. And we are friends but I'm also, I'm also her mom. And when you cross that line, you deal with mom as long as you stay and you're the manager of your own life. And I see that you are taking care of yourself and you're. And she'll tell us, she'll tell me and her dad if somebody's approached her online. She'll say, hey, this guy talked to me and I told him to buzz off or whatever I said. Like she now can identify people at her workplace that seemed strange or look at her the wrong way or touch her the wrong way. She can tell online when people are saying stuff and so can my son. You have to grow them up with awareness because they're the ones on the front line. They're the ones that are going to get approached, not you. And why are we so concerned about talking to our kids about sex? Why is that so embarrassing? We all have sex or kids wouldn't be here. So I mean, why are we so concerned? Because if you're not watching your kid or talking to your kid, me and Jason guarantee you a bad guy is.

Someone else is. Wow. Wow. So just to clarify, Jason is an undercover sex or say that. Tell me exactly his. I don't want to say it incorrectly. Christian, what is Jason's title?

Yeah, so he works at the sheriff's office as a cyber investigator. So he's 14 year old girl online with a decoy and he talks to predators on a minute to minute daily basis. And my goodness, he has over 20. Well he's got over 18 arrests with I think six or seven coming down right now. I mean he could.

That's amazing.

His life. Yes.

Right. I remember not too long ago in our area that there was a individual that was arrested and was about to go into youth ministry and that he was taken down shortly before that happened. So you know, friends, what I, I just want you to know and understand about this talk today with Kristen is it. It's everywhere. You cannot be too careful. Talk to your kids about it. It, it can. It sometimes, you know, you have in your mind of what you think a sex trafficker would look like and it's usually someone who's, you know, nasty, who's maybe dressed awful, who doesn't take good care of themselves. But that is not always the case. It can look like the boy next to next door or it can look like the, the man from the professional office or the woman from the professional office. It can look like normal people. What we deem as normal people. That's not always the case. It sometimes is is like that diamond in the rough. It's the diamond that is the problem that is the predator. So parents, you just can't be too careful. So Kristin, tell me now you've talked about, you know, the rescue part of it where you're trying to pull kids out of the sex trafficking. What happens to these children to These young people, these young boys and girls, when you get them out of a sex ring, what happens to those children?

So I just want to be very clear when you're not just a civilian can go and get kids out of a scenario where you're rescuing kids. I always encourage people on the rescue side because that's my side. I'm rescue restoration. But I only do things when I'm aligning with law enforcement and I am there to assist them with helping in any kind of advocacy that I can, because I am not law enforcement, so I cannot do that. So I'm brought on as that advocate to help. And I may go out and look for kids, but I can do nothing unless law enforcement is involved. Jake is obviously different because he's. He is a sheriff detective, so he can. But I don't want people to hear this and get this.

This crazy idea that they're going to go out and pull people from rigs.

And that's when we moved here and we, we were getting all trained up. We thought we were going to bust down doors and we, we were just civilians at the time. Well, we would have gotten killed or got. Or killed somebody or got arrested. So you got to be real careful with that. But looking for these kids, a lot of the kids are runaways, throwaways in the system, in some way, shape or form at risk. A lot of behavioral issues. Maybe they're not in the system, but they're not being watched, or parents aren't watching what's going on, and they're getting into risky behaviors and doing things to get attention online. So a lot of times when there are operations where kids are rescued, it's extremely frustrating. I'm not going to sit on here and tell you that, that throughout the United States, we have a good system, yet we're all working on it extremely hard. But it's really, really hard because you're pulling kids out of scenarios. And I kind of described that before, where the kid that was there before the luring and grooming and training or the abduction and the horrific rapes, repeated serial rape of this child has raped the ability for them to just go back to a normal life. And a lot of the programs out there, there's not very many beds at all for kids that are specifically focused on human trafficking or sexual exploitation. And even though there are programs like us and others in the nation that are designed for this, it's still extremely hard to unravel all of this. Because you're asking therapists to be like, if you put it in a medical way. An ears, nose and throat doctor, a gynecologist, a brain surgeon and a foot doctor and you, and get it straight and figure it all out. I mean, how do you know all of this trauma and how to like step by step, best practice trauma informed. There's really not a lot of solid evidence based programs out there because we don't have it yet. Everything is so new and different because of all, because it's serial rape of children. And so it's really hard to get them into programs. A lot of them end up in detention because they have petty crimes and they look like they're delinquents running crazy on the street and causing chaos when there's an underlining situation here with a trafficker and buyers. And then you've got scenarios where they think there's mental health so they put them in a mental health hospital. Well, you can't just put them in a mental health hospital and, and just make them well, that's not going to work either. So a lot of the law enforcement is at a crossroads of okay, what are we doing with these kids? And a lot of times people come to us, well, we saw 150 kids were rescued. Okay, well where are those kids? So we're working very hard to make those relationships with the marshals and the FBI. We already have some relationships with, we definitely have it with Homeland Security. But just finding, okay, what are you doing with these kids? If there's a big bust, what are you doing? And I'm telling you, a lot of it happens with whatever's going on in that state, whether it's a hospital or detention or into a program. But a lot of programs cost money. So it's very hard for people to afford programs. Ours is free, but a lot.

So when you say ours is free, I know what you're talking about, but I would like the audience to know more about what you're talking about. I know that, that you have created, created the Demand Project has created a pathway, a journey to freedom, kind of a stepping stone, if you will, to getting victims ready to get back into what we would consider a normal life. Because I know that's a vicious cycle.

It is.

They get arrested or they get pulled out of a ring. They get, you know, five weeks of a little bit of this and that and you're okay. And then you go back out into the world. Well, unless you fix what's broken, unless whatever is not repaired in that child is going to repeat in that child. And as the child grows up it's going to repeat as an adult. So what's not repaired repeats. And I know that you have created kind of that so stepping stone, that safe haven place, that, that space in between being rescued and being put back into normal society. Tell us about that safe space that you all have created.

So in 2013, we were never going to be a place where we would have like a campus or a facility or whatever. So we just started facilities facilitating resources to anyone that was a survivor, a victim or a survivor of human trafficking or sexual exploitation. And we still do that today. So we facilitate the basic of needs to all the way to housing and jobs and you know, clothing and furniture and whatever that looks like. And we partner with anyone and everyone in Oklahoma and abroad, like all over the United States. Like if we can't help somebody here, we get them somewhere that they can be helped. But in 2017, at our Beyond Awareness summit that we do every year, where we train people to be, to go beyond awareness and actually be action oriented as a solution in this fight to save our children, this guy walks up to us and we get a lot of people that walk up and offer us a lot of things and say a lot of things and passion. And so he comes up and says, I have this property, I have this campus. And I'm like, okay, great. And went out three weeks later and like the clouds parted and I could hear music in the sky. And Jason did not feel that way. He thought, he thought, who's going to mow this place? Because it was.

How many acres?

54 acres.

Oh my goodness, 54 acres. Well, I might think I would be thinking what Jason's thinking. That's a lot to take care of.

I knew that the music was louder for me and, and there was nine buildings already had been a children's home at one point and it had a dining hall and it took three years to refurbish. But we are now open and we, we have the largest capacity for minor girls ages 11 to 17 to go through a two year program called the Journey to Freedom. And that's where they get their mentor, a therapist and a case manager. They get life skill coaches, they do school. We focus on mental health, physical well being, spiritual wholeness, their legal aspects, their education. Like we wrap around them to make sure that they're getting everything possible as an opportunity for whatever it is that they want to do. And what they, they, they have the opportunity to dream again. And some may never have dreamed before, some maybe got their dreams completely crushed. But this is an opportunity for them. So we still do the non residential where we facilitate resources to boys, girls, adults, whoever. But the campus is massive. It's a massive undertaking because we can take up to 60 minor girls. The problem, Pamela, is finding the right staff. And we've.

I bet that is a challenge.

Challenge. We need house guardians. We need. We don't need somebody with a passion to want to make a difference. We need somebody, people that, this is who they are. Like, they've got a educational, therapeutic attitude with a military background that can come on right and love these kids through their journey. Not ours, not yours, not anyone's. Their journey. What is that journey? What do they want to do? Let's give them all the opportunities and let's help them with the tools to figure it out, but let's not do it for them. We want them to figure out, well.

You'Ve done a tremendous, tremendous job in working on filling that gap and that. Because that gap is huge. I think about, you know, someone who is trying to get over being addicted to drugs. You know, you go through a six week, three month, whatever program, but yet even after three months, you might not be ready to go back to normal life. And oftentimes they relapse again and again and again, whether it's drugs or alcohol or whatever addiction they might be fighting. But you have implemented just a space that bridges a tremendous gap in between being pulled from a sex trafficking ring and exploitation to where these, these children, these babies can learn to dream again and build a great future and perhaps, perhaps at the end of their time with you, find purpose in their past and purpose for why that happened to them and create a way to, to have that happen for them. To be an advocate. Advocate for other children just like themselves.

Yes. I mean, in Oklahoma, just Oklahoma, we have less than 20 beds for adult women that have been survivors of human trafficking. We have less than 15 beds for underaged girls that have been affected by human trafficking. And then we add 60.

Like, that's amazing.

And that, that's amazing for them nation because there are, there are such a low amount of beds throughout the United States. It's unbelievable and it's very. And we have to build capacity. We have to. That's.

Well, that's just a huge gap in the restoration process is not having a place for these children and women and boys to go.

That's exactly right.

That's fantastic. Oh, gosh, thank you so much for that, that hard work that you, you're doing. So I want to pull that into the blue tie gala that you have. Coming up on March 26, there is a blue tie gala for the Demand Project which is going to be held at the Silo Event center in Tulsa, Oklahoma. And I just want to preface this. You know, it says gala, but it doesn't mean like we're taking the night off from fighting this fight and we're just going to have a party and go home this night. I mean, because the fight never stops. There are no breaks. This, this, the problem never stops. So the fight never stops. But the purpose of this night is to purposefully, impactfully bring people on board to help with the restoration, to create that journey of freedom and to raise money, money and raise funds for that. I know that personally I get to donate. I want to say it's like 25, $26 a month and I'm committed to doing that monthly for however long I need to, to help create another bed for another child, for another girl. There's opportunities like that. There's going to be auctions, items, there's going to be a mountain of education and knowledge and information. We're going to come together as a collective group to help with this fight and to build a stronger community on the fight side. So tell us how people can get involved, where can they plug in? How can we all come together and be of service to the blue tie gala?

Yeah, I love how you say, say that about the gala because there's a lot of events that go on, you know, that, that matter and they have a great purpose. What I love about the gala is it's the only event that we have throughout the year where we can come together, eat good food, look, dress in our best and look amazing, be around like minded people, people and enjoy an evening. But there is a purpose. And make no mistake about it, when you come to this gala, Jamie Miller, our event coordinator for this gala is going, going to make it such an experience. You're not just gonna come eat this beautiful meal and dance and, and do all this. I hope you do that.

But, but that's not the point.

That's not the purpose called raising hope. It's not just raising hope for the kids that we serve and the people that we serve, but it's raising hope in the community that we are gonna, we're gonna create a synergy and we're gonna become a solution for these kids and these people that we serve. And so that night when we come together, it starts around 6 o' clock and we are gonna, we're creating an experience and you don't have to go into the experience. It'll be. It'll be blocked off with a. With a curtain, but you can experience some elements of what these kids go through as a trafficked victim. And we're going to create where you can hear and see, not with actual people, but scenarios about what human trafficking is. And when you leave that room and you walk out of there and you're back into this beautiful silo event center, that's just incredible. And you're. And. And we have all of the other events going on, you're going to feel like, at least you've got to understand a bit, because if you can't handle hearing what's happening, happening, how can you be helping them that are going through it? Stop working, worrying about how it makes you feel to hear it. Because if it was your kid, I guarantee you would want somebody to listen to you and you'd want to be able to call the Demand Project and say, help, my kid is in trouble. We're like that insurance policy that you. You don't want to ever have to use it, but you definitely want it to be there, to be able to use if you need it. And so this Raising Hope gala is going to hopefully get us together to create new solutions, get more people on board and create this army that's going after those that are buying and selling our kids.

Oh, my gosh. Amen. A hundred times over. And, you know, I think it's safe to say that most of us, and probably a good part of the community listening today is we live in this. This glass, this shiny bubble of our beautiful communities we have. I mean, it's. It's sunny today, so I'm thinking about, you know, it's a beautiful day, but. But we live so removed from the reality of what truly is in the corners of our community. It's around every single corner. I'm excited. This is my first time attending the gala, and I hope that if you are a local Tulsa person or. Or in the area, you'll consider going. There's less than 50 tickets left, and the gala is on the 26th, so I will put all of the links to get a ticket, links to donate to the Journey of Freedom foundation and the Demand Project. I will put links to all of that in the bio and description of this podcast, so I want to just kind of wrap it up there. Kristen, this is amazing. I do encourage everyone here to go to the website, the demand project.org and go and look at the website. There's a wealth of information there. There's a wealth of reports from police reports, etc. News reports that are showing people the successes, the wins of Jason's undercover work that he does. So you can donate to the Demand Project through the website site, is that correct, Kristen?

Yes, you can.

Excellent. And can you just do. We're going to do just a few rapid fire questions to wrap up today's conversation. So what are some quick red flags for parents to watch for and be aware of?

So I would say secrecy if they're wanting to spend too much time in isolation and it's always around their technology. Watch your child. Like you said earlier, Pamela, we know when there's something wrong. Dive in, ask questions, and doggone it, if you can't ask the questions, then call us and we'll ask the questions. I don't care who it is. I'll ask a kid very serious questions. But take an approach with your child to really see what they're doing and don't let sequel grits remain in your home.

Excellent. What does the future of the Demand Project look like?

I feel like the future of the Demand Project, what I've always really wanted is to be a model throughout the nation and linking with other models like we're not going to be the end all of everything. But I want us to be a model restoration program where when we're hitting this wraparound program, we're giving kids to the tools to really make a purpose for their path going forward. I'd really love our legislation part. I'd like to be a model in that as well, because there's legislation out there, but it's not being used. And we have a legal team, and not many 501C3s have legal teams involved in their organizations. And we do so making sure legislation is helping victims and survivors, but also holding the predators accountable and going after defunding the demand and just, just really being able to talk to kids, get into more schools, educate more parents. So I see the future as extremely bright and I have a massive vision for it.

Oh, my gosh. And I cannot wait to see your vision and be a part of it.

That is.

Is incredible. What is the most satisfying moment in your work? If you can pick one moment. Kristin, in all the years that you have been working on this project and this mission, what is one of the most satisfying moments in your work?

Well, we worked with this one kid. She was 15, 14 when we started working with her, and boy, was it a tough situation. And we had 10 people around this kid. I mean, if she ran, we ran. Like we ended up, just, just wrapping around this child. I guess when she was probably about 17, 18 years old, she sent me a text one day just thanking me for. I'm gonna get choked up. Just thanking me for all that the team had done, where she had gotten to, and just that we gave her a chance when nobody else would work with her. And she's now. She turned 20 today. I can't even believe her. Up and today. And she turned 20 today. She's free. She's amazing, she's beautiful. She has her whole life ahead of her. We're gonna offer her a job like she is the billboard for an opportunity to be all she can be. And I don't care if she's the best Walmart greeter or the highest paid CEO who cares. She's free. And we were. We got to be a part of that. So I would say that would be one of the most endearing. I mean, I could go on and on. We could have another conversation and I can just sit and talk to you about our amazing people that we've helped. But I'd say something like, that would be one of the best.

And you loved her hard. You loved her hard.

Yes.

Oh, that's so good. So, on a lighter note, what does your dress like look like for the gala?

So I haven't gone to get my dress yet.

Oh, shoot. I was looking for suggestions.

Jamie has a very blingy jumpsuit. She says, I love it. And the other girls are wearing dressy, snazzy beaded gowns and dresses.

Oh, fun.

It's called blue tie because blue is the color for sex trafficking and sexual exploitation. So we want people to add a hint of blue to whatever they wear. So I'm going to try to find something that. That makes me look really skinny, a little bit boy and fun, so.

Oh, that sounds so, so perfect. Kristen. Wow. This. This was amazing. I. I admire. I am so in awe of what you and Jason have created. The co founders, the two of you, you are. You both have different entities within the organization, within the Demand project. And I like how you said where you guys collide through the process, but you both have your strengths and your specialty areas, and it's amazing. The work that you're doing is just phenomenal. I learn something new every time I talk to you. Thank you. Thank you for being here today. I just can't thank you enough. Do you have any final thoughts? Thoughts, Kristen, before I talk us out.

My biggest thought is thank you, Pamela, for. For being willing to talk about something that a lot of people don't want to talk talk about. And for those of you that lasted 55 minutes, you listened, you learned, you're going to be part of the solution, even if it's only in your sphere of influence, even if it's only in your home, your neighborhood. Let's be bigger and better than what's happening to our kids, for our kids. And I'm just so grateful that, that we have everyone listening and I'm excited to see everybody at the gala.

Awesome, Kristen, thank you so much. There's one other thing that I wanted to just tack on to this. Jason puts on something called and Kristen Together do the Aware workshops. They are in person where if you are a local in Tulsa or in the area, you can come to sign up to an Aware workshop or there are online options as well. If you have a group that you want to get together and have Jason and Kristen come on and do a zoom, I know they would be willing to do that for you to create more awareness for someone who doesn't necessarily live in Oklahoma. If you're listening from Michigan or Arizona or wherever you are today, you can have the Demand project come into your home as well and help educate and teach. So friends, thank you so much for being here today. I, I really appreciate it. I know it's, it's going on about an hour. This was such a worthy topic. I'm grateful for all of you. I want to just give you a couple quick reminders. The Self Care Mastery Course begins today. If you are ready to invest in yourself and create a new life for you, sign up for for the Self Care Mastery Course you can go to my website, Pamela Jean a new life.com founding members and you can hop into that group and I'll get you started today. New series for the podcast starting next week about codependency. You will not want to miss this. I learned several years ago that I was actually very codependent and I never knew that. And it was one of the best things that I could have learned about myself. I'm so grateful, grateful for that turning point in my life. And also join us, join us, Join us for the Blue Tie Gala March 26th Silo Event center in Tulsa, Oklahoma. It will be enlightening, empowering and absolutely worth your time. So friends, thank you so much for joining us. Have a great week. Thank you for joining us today on a New Life podcast. We will see you next time.