Jamie Miller, Child trafficking advocate, with The Demand Project.

Welcome to A New Life podcast with.

Pamela Jean, where it's all about empowering.

Women to empower more women. Get ready, friends, to create a new life. And here is your host, Pamela Jean. Hello, my friends, and welcome to this week's episode of A New Life podcast. I'm your host, Pamela Jean, and I'm so grateful that you're here with me today. I know that your time is. The most valuable commodity that you have in your life is your time. I thank you so much for spending your time with me on the podcast today. This podcast is not going to disappoint. I have an incredible guest with me today. Her name is Jamie Miller. You'll get to meet Jamie in just a moment, but before we get started, if you will please pass this podcast along to all of your friends and family that need something that's uplifting, supportive, encouraging. This is absolutely the place for you and all of your friends to be. So it's New Life podcast with Pamela Jean. You'll find it on Apple, Spotify, wherever you get your podcast. You can even hit my website, Pamela Jean a New life. Com. You can find it there as well. Just hit the podcast tab and it'll take you to all of the episodes. So without further ado, I want to bring Jamie Miller onto the podcast. She is an incredible woman with an incredible story and I cannot wait for you to meet her. Jamie, welcome to the podcast.

Thank you so much for having me, Pamela. I love that our conversation gets to be recorded because we talk a lot.

We do talk a lot. I know, I know. We have never recorded it. So this is, this is new for both of us. What's really funny is we could probably talk non stop for 24 hours straight. I don't think we would have any trouble with that. But to respect our guest time or our audience time, we probably shouldn't do that. So, Jamie, tell. Tell the audience, who are you? Where are you from? Where did you grow up? Just give us some backstory on you before we get into the meat of our conversation today.

Yes, who am I? That's such a loaded question. Because when you look back at your whole life story, you're like, I've been a lot of things. I am going to be 40 years old this year and I was having a conversation with a 22 year old and he is just looking at me and all going, what haven't you done? Right? Because my life has just, you know, from childhood to, you know, growing up to college, to go, you know, moving away, I've moved halfway across the country four times. I've had so many jobs, couple degrees, and it's just crazy to think, who am I?

That's a great question. Depends on which day you ask exactly.

And I think so many women, like, we are so many things. And you know, where I grew up, I am a Texas girl living in an oaky world, which I absolutely love. I am. I was born to Moses and Terry back in Dallas, Texas, and that's where I was born and raised. When I graduated high school, I. My mom said, jamie, I want you to go to a Christian college. And I said, well, what's the biggest one? And so if you know me, you know, it's because I just needed a lot of friends. And so I ended up moving away to Virginia at Liberty University for college, transferred to ou, met an Okie boy. And I remember going home, taking him to my friends back in Dallas, and they're like, oh, my gosh, does he have a brother? Cousins? And I'm like, you gotta go up there. The Oklahoma boys are amazing. You know, they're all a little bit country. They're all, you know, every. I call it the pocket knife effect, because you ask a group of Okie boys for a pocket knife and they.

All, you know, they all whip one out.

That was so wild. But they also will allow you to pick out their clothes and tell you. Tell them what shoes to wear. So I married Jason Miller in 2010 and we have two beautiful daughters, ages 11 and 8. So we are. I used to say we're in it, like in the. In it, but we're not. We're on the other side of that and doing all the activities. You know, I'm a full time working mom. He has a full time job. We also own a business. We have five acres, partridge and a pear tree. Really?

Oh, that's awesome. That's awesome. Well, and at least your Dallas family, you're not too far from them. It's Tulsa to Dallas is a quick, easy drive. Exactly. And Dallas is obviously a great place to visit anytime you get a chance to head Southern.

All the shopping happens.

I know. Exactly. That's where the retail damage does take place. I understand. So, Jamie, tell me. You know, people make a big impact in our lives. Who inspired you to become who you are today?

You know, we can't talk about Jamie Miller without talking about the Holy Spirit and what the Lord has done in my life. So when I think about who shepherd, that that would be my grandmother, Elaine Crawl. She's 84 years old and also my mother which is her daughter Terry and my sister Julia. So I am one of the lucky ones that has a lineage of praying women. So if anybody can relate to that, you know that there's so much power, and for a lot of us, it's why we're still standing today.

Awesome. To have that strength, that power, those powerful women in your life that sound like they've rallied around you your entire life.

And through prayer, you know, we've had relational issues. You know, I wouldn't say, like, I'm actually my mom. Just text me before we went live. Like, I mean, we're not perfect, but, you know, it's the praying that made such a difference in my life, and knowing that they believed and had the faith that the LoR was going to take care of them and their family. And so I would say those women in that line is what has strengthened me to my core.

And, you know, I think something important to point out sometimes, especially when we're children growing up and teenagers and going into those young adult challenging years, we don't really know how to pray for ourselves very well. We pray for what we want. You know, I want a new car. God, let me get a new car. I mean, we pray. Pray for the things that we want. Right? But you have that grandmother who has an intercession prayer. She intercedes for you in the blank spaces, the gaps where you're not praying for yourself. And that grandmother is pouring that intercessional prayer into your life that is so important and so powerful. And I'm. I'm so happy, Jamie, that you had that in your life, that, you know, that your grandmother was praying for you probably before you were even born. And that's just so such a beautiful gift. Oh, it is. It's so cool. So I can't remember exactly, Jamie, how I met you, but I think I met you through your work at the Demand Project. And for the audience members that don't know what the Demand Project is, Jamie, would you mind? I know this. That is a conversation in itself that could take, you know, a week. But if you could share about the Demand Project, how you got involved and what the role of the Demand Project is today in our communities, in our state.

I met you through Kelly Stacy at our 2021 gala, raising hope blue tie gala. You had taken her pictures. Do you remember?

Yes. And I have to tell you, I brought Kelly to the Demand Project.

I know your podcast.

It's like I brought your zoom. Exactly. I know. It's like I recruited Kelly.

So you were involved Before I was. And so I know that that was the connection that, that I had gotten to know you. And my goodness, Pamela, you are, you're such an inspiration and just such an encourager and oh, you know, kind.

Thank you.

Out people like you. I wouldn't be as strong even in the position that I'm currently in that he's, you know, the Kim, the Kim Spencer's and the Pamela Jeans. You know, I mean, those women that, that have, you know, really championed me on, challenged me, but also more than anything, encouraged me because this work, working with children, surviving sexual exploitation and working in the community, telling a story that is something that people want to ignore because it's almost impossible to digest. It does take a really special person. And I'm not calling myself special, but the Lord knows my strengths. And so when he strategically positioned me at the organization through a series of literally God ordained things that we don't even have time to go into, but he was, he was priming and prepping me for a decade. I was introduced to child trafficking back in 2010 at a time that no one was talking about it. Nobody was. There was hardly any education out there. And I, as a, as a rebel, I do have that rebel in me. I knew that I was on to something important because it was against the grain and it was not popular. And I've always been one to lean into some of those things and be a front runner. I'm, I'm a trendsetter in a lot of aspects. And so it was 10 years before I even knew about the Demand project, that God was positioning me and he was teaching me and showing me things that I needed to know because he was strengthening my shoulders. I was going to be carrying a burden for children that needed to be saved out of this modern day slavery and children that needed to have not just a safe place, but a place of restoration. I also, he also knew that I was going to be encountering parents that needed to tell me their stories and people needing to share what's happened to them. And that's not for everyone. And so my position at the organization that's serving children and adults in the realm of, you know, victim to survivor to thriver. We don't even want them living in the survivor mindset. We want them to be more than what has happened to them. But what my position is, is I, I help fund all of the departments in which we are fighting human trafficking, child sexual abuse, material, online enticement, and the commercial sexual exploitation of children. So what's funny is being the second born of two girls. I used to stress my sister out by not planning things. Like I would go on vacation and she would ask me questions and I would have nothing planned. She wasn't even going. But she was so stressed that I didn't have all my ducks in a row. I'm very, very free spirited. And so when the Lord positioned me here as an event coordinator, Ha ha. Because that's a lot of spreadsheets and a lot of planning and a lot of things that I am, I call things. What is your effortless? I like to find out what people's effortless is. Tell you, Pamela, that is not my effortless to plan anything but God, right? But Jesus, he came in and just showed off because he had put an anointing on me to gather people that I can do. And I've always had that gift of I told my mom when I was younger, I said, mom, they're not. She said, don't talk to strangers. I said, they're not strangers. They're just friends I haven't met yet. And Pamela will be the first one to tell you that that is so true for, for Jamie, because I don't have strangers. They're just friends. And so he had given me an anointing to do something. And in his glory, like he's literally just showing off through me because I am not a planner. And we've been able to fund through events. And when I say we, me and my team, I have a team of volunteers. I have a board, an event board, I have event volunteers. There's about 30 of us that pull off each one of these events. We do four major events every year. And the funding for 2022, we haven't gotten the numbers yet for 23, but 2022 is 48% of our incoming.

Wow, that's amazing.

And so, you know, what that meant for me especially coming into 2024, was that I needed. We need to be at $3 million. Our events have to be 1.5 million. So that's what it meant to me. And so, you know, that's a. It's a huge goal. But it's something that I know that the Lord has been solidifying the foundation of what we are as an organization, who I am as a person. And he's just opening those doors. And really the floodgates have just been slowly opening, slowly opening. And we're feeling in 2024 that this is going to be the rain down and into 2025.

That's awesome. So for the audience, just to maybe clarify and fill in a couple of gaps. The Demand Project, and Jamie, correct me here if I don't say it correctly, is eradicating the demand for online trafficking, human trafficking and sex trafficking. Would that be correct?

That's a great summary. Y.

Okay. And Jamie's role is to fundraise for the women and young girls that are taken out of sex trafficking for restoration. Because, you know, we may rescue people, slaves from the sex trafficking and human trafficking world, but there's very few places for them to be restored. And just like a drug addict or a alcoholic or someone with an addiction, if you don't restore them from an addiction, from this slavery, chances are they're going to go right back into it because they, they haven't found a new way and a way of restoration to get them out of it forever, to be able to build onto a new life. Would that. How does that sound, Jamie? As far as full circle?

Yeah, lean into that a little bit. So the Demand Project has the largest capacity for a safe house in our entire country. And what that means is. That's insane. Most safe houses that are doing the work that we're doing have anywhere from three to eight beds. We have the capacity to house 30 children. And a lot of our setbacks at this moment is hiring and financing. And so simultaneously we are doing that. As you know, we have a wait list of children that need to come that we don't have the staff, we can't facilitate them.

Yeah, right.

Oh my gosh. So what it is, you know, in our country, currently 82% of children that are rescued from sex trafficking return almost immediately. And you can liken that to like the first 48 with the murder. Right. Like if you're not solving it within, if you're not solving the solutions for this child or even adult in those first 48 hours, the re exploitation level is so high and most of that is due to their vulnerability. Um, but you know, it's more likened, honestly, Pamela, to a war veteran because their brains are similar like these children. So we take girls ages 11 to 17 years old, their brains are likened to a war veteran. So the levels of PTSD that are, that are not just affecting their brain, but their bodies make it to where they can't function in society. So it goes deeper than even just a re regulation of their minds. It's not, it's so deep. And what we have seen in our research and just hands on care that you're looking at about three years of the restorative process before these children are even able to fully understand what's happened to fully what we call unthaw for them to be able to learn, to have the capacity to even learn, memorize things, you know. So when you're looking at the restorative care, 26 states have no beds for children. There are only 661 current like available beds, which that's just meaning that they're a program, they may be filled, but there's 661 beds in all 50 states in the United States of America to care for children surviving this crime. And so the reason why there's that low of number is because restoration is expensive. Restoration is relational. Restoration is messy. And it is very, it's going back and forth into crisis that most people are either not equipped to help or they're not willing because.

And it takes so much time. I mean if you're talking three years, that is a lot of time. So that I could see would be very daunting. Jamie, thank you for that clarification and that in depth explanation. I really appreciate it. What jumped into my mind was it sounds like a cult victim where they have been so deprogrammed from their, their past self that they have to be reprogrammed into the new human being that they, they are becoming.

Yeah. And sexual, sexual abuse does something to the brain that nothing else does. And these children may not even have a base to return to, if that makes sense. And so what, what you're dealing with is, is, is so convoluted. Our national average is 40% of trafficked children are trafficked by a family member. Now what we are seeing as an organization that's been doing this now for 11 years is 70% of our clients have been trafficked by a family member.

Wow, that's astounding.

It's, it's, it's the demand. And it goes back to why we are as an organization trying to eradicate the demand for sex with kids. And that is a whole nother podcast because you asked me why we're in the state that we're in and I could talk to you forever about it. But you know, to the restore. Just speaking to the restorative part of what we do, because that's one of the four ways that we're fighting these crimes is restoration. But it is, it's a whole body approach. And so each child has anywhere from five to seven people on their team and they're committed to each individual piece of their, their whole self. Right there, you could say body, mind and soul. But we Go even a little deeper than that in our program. And the program is called Journey to Freedom. And you don't get freedom without going through the process. And that process looks very different for each child.

Oh my gosh, that is phenomenal. And you are right, Jamie. We'll. We'll do another podcast where we really dive into the infrastructure and the nuts and bolts of the demand project. That's not our purpose for today, but we'll definitely do that at another time because that's a. I want to, when we do that, I want to focus on it really intentionally and dig really, really deep into it. So if will. Jamie, I know the audience. I have such an amazing audience. I know that people listening are going to want to help.

Yeah.

If they can help financially. Volunteer time. Jamie, what would be the best way for them to. To help, to give, to volunteer time, to donate? What. What does that look like? Where's the best way to outreach?

Yeah. So, you know, in 2020, whenever I, when the Lord had called me into full time work after being a stay at home mom for eight and a half years, I knew what my peace was. I knew it. I knew what he was calling me to do. And you know, he had a message for me, but it was, obviously has turned into a message for others. But when we were at it as a nation, praying for Covid. Right, Praying, you know, we were all reciting, if the righteous will pray, I will heal their land. Right. I will hear them and he'll heal their land. And the Holy Spirit, Pamela said, jamie, if. If we do not heal the sickest part of our country, which is what's happening to children, we will never be healed. And I took that really seriously because what it meant to me was that it was going to take all of us, it was going to take the prayers of the righteous. And I'm seeing this more and more, Pamela, where people who are asking the Father to break their hearts and that are following the Holy Spirit, they're getting human trafficking as pray for this help this right. And they don't necessarily know what to do. So I will say first and foremost, put us on the top of your prayer list. Not just the Demand project, but organizations across the country that are in the trenches, law enforcement who are actively trying to combat this. So pray. That is the best thing that we can do. The second thing is visiting our website, thedemandproject.org and click join the fight. We need volunteers. We need people who can be mentors to these children. We have a prayer team, Pamela. We're in Tulsa, Oklahoma and our prayer team has consecutively seven people on it. That's a problem.

That is a problem.

And so if that is what God's calling you to do, come be in this room, in this office at our campus praying and strategic prayers. Things that we can't just put out to the public. Things that only volunteers vetted volunteers can have access to information that is extremely important to be prayed over. We also need mentors, we need life skill coaches, we need office volunteers. I need someone to come help answer phones, to help stuff envelopes to maybe even events like if you're interested in the things I was saying at the beginning, you your effortless is fundraising. Come help us. Also monetary donations. If we had 25,000 people, okay, I live in Broken Arrow, Oklahoma. Our population's over a hundred thousand. If we had 25,000 people giving $25 a month, we would be sustainably fully funded. Right. That is a drop in the bucket when we look at even Tulsa, let alone Oklahoma, let alone the country. We have children from seven different states because again 26 states have no beds.

Wow.

There's only 661 beds at coast to Coast. So we need your monthly commitment because guess What? Those, those one time gifts of 10,000, 25,000 are amazing. But they don't keep our lights on. Because what keeps our lights on is the $25. I have somebody that gives $5 a month and I have someone that gives $500 a month. And so pick your monthly contribution to invest. And an organization that's doing what most people don't want to do aren't doing that. These, I mean we need room for hundreds of thousands of children. That's the number we're working with on an annual basis trafficked in our country is anywhere they say from 300 to 500,000 children in the United States every single year.

That is insanity. That's insanity. Wow. Okay, well thanks for that wake up call because that and I'm familiar with your work, the work of the Demand Project and that. That is shocking to me. So I can imagine if the listeners have never heard of the Demand Project and have no idea what the work is. I'm sure they are on the floor right now with. Oh my gosh. So friends, if you can give and commit to $25 a month, that's not hard to do. If you're getting a coffee once a week, Skip that for two weeks and you've got your $25. Because if you go to a gourmet coffee place you know, it's a little pricey these days.

I know.

Jamie's like, It's $7.

I could tell you this morning.

Well, and I'm not knocking coffee shops. I just use that as a technology because it's easy for someone to say, gosh, I get a coffee, you know, three times a week. That's 21 right there. I could. I could do that and throw in four bucks, and I would be. I would have the 25. $25 is not a lot when you think about how well most of us live. Not everybody, but most of us live quite well. And $25 is not a big sacrifice to be able to help keep the lights on of an organization that is really, really doing some incredible, incredible good in our country. Jamie, thank you for that. I'm going to flip our. Our conversation in a new direction. So knuckle up your seatbelt, because I have a question for you.

I'm dancing.

Okay, good. I love it. What does the word adversity mean to you?

Adversity was told to me that nothing great comes without it. And when the Lord was showing me this word, I obviously, adversity. I'm like, no, thank you. I'm all set.

No, thank you. Next, please.

I'll have another, right? Yeah. And so, you know, it's not something that feels good, right? Adversity seems icky. There's not a positive way to view adversity other than the fact that it's required to become great and to create great things. And, you know, we all have a life story, and I alluded to that a little bit in the beginning, but the Lord told me, jamie, we have a post Covid story. Every single person has been in this place of adversity for four years. I mean, I'm raising my hand. I've been in severe adversity for four years. And the Lord is saying, learn how to be great in it, because it may never end. And that isn't doom and gloom, but when you read Revelation, one of the first verses says, read this often. Read this often. And Revelation is all about adversity. And revelation, as a Christian, should not scare us. It should be something that we are on guard for. Right? So if the Lord is like, dress in your armor. Does that mean you're going to the mall? No, it means you're going into battle. And no battle is going to come without adversity. And so he wants to shift our minds as lovers of the Lord. He wants to shift our minds from being in the battle alone, being in the Battle together. Because if together, we can share in those burdens, if we can talk about what's going on, we can understand one, we're not alone, but that two, he says, I'm gonna be there. When two or more gathered in his name, I'm gonna be there. So we've gone through this place of adversity as a country, as a church, as, you know, parents, as business owners. Oh, my goodness. I just want. I just reeling of all these different people's stories popping in my head of adversity. And so I think adversity, Pamela, is important for unity. And that's the father's heart.

Oh, that was good, Amy. That was really, really good. And I think if you are in a place where you can embrace adversity and know that the biggest lessons of your life will through adversity. If you're learning something through all of the hard times, that's where you get led to the next great thing that you're meant to do.

Absolutely.

So that leads me to my next question for you, Jamie, is we all have a very important purpose while we walk the earth. As long as there's breath in our lungs, there is something important that we are meant to do. What is Jamie Miller's purpose outside of the Demand Project?

I've always believed that the reason I was on this earth was to make people feel seen. And my purpose is to serve. You know, I got a really big lesson in that at a previous church that I was at. And, you know, the Lord is just like, why aren't you serving? Like, why are you coming to church to be served? Like, you go into every place to serve, and whether that is at that local coffee shop while you're waiting on a coffee or it is in a ministerial, you know, position, you're there to serve, you're there to see other people. And whether I'm in the adversity, I'm in the fire, whatever, like, that's going to be lifted, and it will actually be carried in a way by the Lord as we serve. And so I think that is my biggest purpose, is to just serve those that don't even know they need it.

Yeah. Isn't that the truth sometimes? If you are. So I think when we find a place of centeredness within ourselves, it allows us to see people in a room and read a room well, and find that person that really needs to be seen, whether they know it or not. They may want to just hide behind the scenes or, you know, hide behind the counter type of a mindset, but when you can see that person and bring them out and help them step into who they're meant to be. That is one of the greatest gifts. And I believe, Jamie, you do that so, so well. I mean, every time I show up to a networking event or go to some function around the city of Tulsa, almost always, more times than not, Jamie Miller's there. I'm like, how are you everywhere? Why are you everywhere? And I'm like, oh, yep, Jamie's here. Of course she is. Where else would she be? But I witnessed that.

I'm actually following you around, but I know.

Oh, you're the stalker. I didn't know I had. Okay, well, and I think that's just such a beautiful gift, though, because I. I see some people go to. To events and functions and networking and whatever, kind of begrudgingly like, oh, gosh, I have to go to this networking event, whereas icu. I get to go to this event today, and I can't wait to see who I meet.

Yes. Yeah.

Well, I love that, because that's such a gift that you have. So, Jamie, where do you want to make the biggest impact in the world?

At home.

Oh, yes.

With my girls.

Girls, Yes.

I want them. You know, I just. I. So quickly. Are they gonna be at that place where, mom, I don't hate you anymore. Right? Like, you know, I'm not mad at you for being, like, a loser mom, but, you know, those memory. Like, what. How they see Mom. You know, that legacy that you hear a lot about? I honestly don't think it has anything to do with money. I don't. You know, I know that gets wrapped around that a lot. Leave a legacy for your family, but you can't take that with you, and neither can they. And if. If Jesus is coming back as soon as I think that he is, I just want my kids. You know, I want to impact my kids and their friends. There's so many kids, Pamela, in. In elementary school and middle school and high school that are so hurting that, you know, I want to raise my husband up. I want him to be a father to the fatherless. I want my kids to be Jesus in their schools and to everyone around them. And I. You know, I want that impact to. To be a part of what the ministry God has for me, and the service that God has for me is right there in my four walls.

No, that's. That's so good. That's such a great answer. I love asking that question because I get a plethora of answers, and it's to see where that Lands with each person that I interview and have a conversation with. So Jamie, what advice would you give the 10 year old Jamie?

10 year old Jamie, you will have a calculator in your hand the rest of your life. I was really bad at math.

Don't worry honey, you don't have to memorize numbers because you'll have a calculator. That's good advice. Wouldn't have that have been nice to know when you were 10?

I was not very good at school. So yeah, I, you know Pamela, God put such a special anointing on me at around 12. So when I think of like 10 year old Jamie, I really think about 12 year old Jamie. And he told me who I was and I really harnessed who I was. And so what I would tell me is that I need to learn how to articulate it and teach it. I wish I would have known more about mentoring, leadership, discipleship. I wish I would have had that more in my life. So more than anything I probably would tell my mom her person, you know, but I just don't think it was that common. At least not in my circles and not in my church and my Christian school. It was kind of just like go with the crowd, like be like everybody.

Wasn't the right time yet though. It just wasn't the right time because I don't think, you know, back when you were 10, 30 years ago, the need isn't what it is today. So having that ability to mentor and lead very specifically, the need wasn't there yet. So wasn't. It wasn't the right time.

And I think a lot of parents, you know, I talk to a lot of parents and even parents whose children are just struggling where all of our kids are struggling. I mean we're in a generation that's being overran by the enemy and in a rapid way. And so, you know, I just encourage parents though that are struggling to find an outside voice, find that person, get plugged into a church, get plugged into a place where you're going to find a teenager or maybe a young adult who can speak life into your kids. And that it's not just, just your own work, I think goes back to the community stuff like we're not meant to do this alone, right? So go carry the burden for someone else and open yourself up, be vulnerable to people around you so that they can breathe life into you and your family. We need.

Yeah, that's such great advice, Jamie. You know, community and I think, you know, everyone recovering from COVID I think we lost our Connection with community. Many of us lost our communities, just simply lost touch with the people we would spend time with. So rebuilding community. That's such great advice. Another quick little rapid fire question for you is this. What is one thing that no one in the whole world knows about? Jamie.

This was not on the list.

Of course I told you. I warned you. Not everything. We might ebb and flow and we ebbed and we flowed. So what's one thing that no one in the whole world knows about?

Transparent. Pamela? This is a hard one for me. I. I tell anybody anything. It's a hard one. I would say what people would be surprised of is that I struggle with making deep connections with people that are closest to me.

That's interesting.

I think that that would surprise a lot of people that actually at home, I don't. People. People think I talk a lot, but it's because I have a lot to say about certain things. If people already know the things that I have to say, I may not talk a lot. And I, I do like being quiet in the times that I can be. So I think that that would surprise people also. One thing that surprises people is when I have no fear of failure. I've been doing that my whole life. Like, that does not scare me one bit to mess up.

So you've mastered failure. Good for you.

But I have it. Fear of success. And interesting. That is something that takes a lot more ownership because failure, you can just do it and go on. Success is something that you have to sustain. And so I think I have a sustaining problem.

Oh, that would. That's a. That's like a coaching conversation. Jamie, we could coach you through that. Oh my gosh, that's such a good one.

Don't shock people because you just kind of see me and like, she's got it all together. She's fine, you know, and I'm not. I have none of. You know. Yeah.

You know, and I think we're all. If we're all honest with ourselves and honest with the world, none of us have everything together. We all have our little things that, that creep into the back of our mind and we have to all deal with. And I love the transparency that you're really an introverted extrovert maybe because. And, and I think, Jamie, you're quiet time is purposeful and necessary because it helps reload and helps you refurbish and build back up the time that you have to be extroverted and be out into the world and pouring on your blessings. So your quiet time is very necessary. It's your refueling time, and I think you have to have that. That is so good. Thanks for answering that question, because I know it's a hard one sometimes, you know, little. No, it's. It was a good one. Sometimes it's little quirky, funny things that, you know, I'm scared of the dark or, you know, whatever, you know, sometimes it's like, hi. No one would never know. I'm scared of the dark.

I'm afraid of fake things. Success. That's so good.

Oh, my gosh. That's so, so awesome. Okay, we're gonna wrap it up, Jamie, with one final question. What advice would you give someone? Because I know, Jamie, I. I love your story, and I didn't know. A lot of the things you shared today I didn't know about. Learned a lot about you, and thank you for that transparency. But if. If there's this woman listening who is really stacked behind many layers of fear, wants to step in front of the fear and get out there and live her purpose, live the purpose that God has created her to be, what advice or strategy would you give her to start? Because I think that's the hardest part, is I don't know where to start. I know what I want to do, but I don't know where to start. What advice do you have for her?

Yeah, this is twofold. So these are both biblical perspectives. The word is a lamp unto our feet and a light unto our path. And that means that we're literally only seeing step by step by step. Because if the Lord lit up our whole past, Pamela, you and I and any woman on this, we would have ran for the hills.

Yeah, I'd have been frozen. I'd be like, no, not starting.

We can't do the whole path. But you have to put one foot in front of the other, because when you think of a boat in the water, the Lord can steer it, which in every way that he wants to. But if you're. If you're docked up, if you're on the bank, you're still in your boat slip. There's just not a lot that he can do with that. And so, my gosh, right? Like, get out. Go. Like, put one foot in front of the other. And that is part of how I got to where I am today. And the second thing is Matthew 17, 20, and 21. If you have faith like a mustard seed, you can tell the mountain to go from here to the sea. But that will only happen through fasting and praying. So when I think about fear and when I think about the unknown or I think about maybe something being in the way. You have to fast and you have to pray. And in that we're waiting, we're listening, we're denying our flesh something that is necessary for us to live so that the Lord can show us some things that otherwise we wouldn't be able to hear.

That's such great advice. One step at a time. Don't try to do the whole thing at once, but just take one step at a time. That's such great advice. Jamie. Jamie, I just want to thank you so much for being here today and being part of the podcast and allowing me to ask you some tricky questions, some questions that I threw in without you knowing they were coming. So thanks for playing with me today. I know you were very inspirational. Would you give us the Demand Project contact information in case someone wants to reach out and connect with the Demand Project?

Absolutely. First off, if you want to get a hold of me, it is J A m I e at. And then if you will go to thedemandproject.org to find out how you can join the fight to look at our 990s, which if you're giving to a nonprofit and you don't know their financials, please go look at their financials because it matters. It matters where the money is going. 76% of every dollar donated is going directly to survivors, guys. And we need more of your help. So go there to donate. You can sign up to be a monthly donor through there and let's get you educated. We can come and do presentations. We want to come to your kids school, to your PTA meeting, to your church. We have stuff for kids, parents, professionals, and then also come to our events. Pamela can be the first one to tell you that they're different. They're different than anything else you're going to experience. And the cause is necessary. Now is the time and the time.

Is for I can. Yeah, I'm sorry to interrupt you, Jamie, but I just have to plug plug your gala. I know it's coming up in March, is that correct?

Yes, it is March 23rd. Tickets, tables and sponsorships are on sale now. We also are in need for procurement items. So maybe you are in a product driven business that you want to make up a beautiful basket for the event or if you have a house in Broken Bow that you want to donate for a weekend that we can auction off. If your company has some marketing dollars you can sponsor or you can even buy a table and individual tickets, it's all on sale now. And we need all of you guys help.

And I will tell you, the gala will not disappoint. It is Phenomen and it is not a boring, stuffy charity event. Oh, my gosh. It is the farthest thing from that. It is incredible. If you don't have a community of people like minded that you're just looking for a place to be. The Demand Project community is phenomenal. They have so many amazing people there. You have to attend this gala. You won't be disappointed. It's not stuffy, it's not boring. It's absolutely phenomenal. It's life changing, to be honest with you. You will learn things that you had no idea. Because let's be honest, most of us, most of us live in kind of this sheltered little bubble, safe bubble. Well, there's a lot of children out there that are in, in the trenches with the wolves and they are being chased every single day of their life by the wolves in human trafficking and slavery. So please reach out to the demandproject.org, reach out to Jamie, thedemandproject.org and get as much information as you would like. Go see that website, do a deep dive look at where their money is being spent. I mean, 76% of every dollar goes to the victims. That's unheard of in a nonprofit like yours, Jamie, an organization like yours. So I just, I thank you from the bottom of my heart, Jamie, to have you here. I just really appreciate you being here. And friends and listeners, thank you again for your time. I know know it's so valuable. There's many things that, that you could be doing right now. And I appreciate you spending your time with me right now. Jamie, I'll give you the final word. Okay.

Yes. Well, thank you guys so much. Pamela, you are just a gem. You light up so many people's lives and I am grateful to know you. I'm grateful to be your friend, to be on your prayer list. And I know that you bless all of these women's lives who tune in to you on a regular basis, but are also connected to you in person. Never stop shining. Never stop being you. Because we need more you's in this world.

Aw. Thank you so much. And likewise, Jamie. Likewise. My friends, thank you again for joining me. And I will see you here next week. Thank you for joining us today on a New Life podcast. We will see you next time.