Podcast Interview with John from Winslow Adaptics on Technical Obsolescence

Hi, John. Thanks very much for your time today on this podcast. I'm really looking forward to this. We're going to be talking about technical obsolescence.

Yeah, looking forward to it.

You know, looking at your website, it's funny. So you're working with defense, medical, aviation, rail, space, you know, automotive as well. And so if you could tell us a little bit about Winslow Adaptix.

We're involved in, in a market that has traditionally been involved with solving obsolescence. So as you mentioned, the kind of sectors that we're involved in, you know, these are not kind of markets where your smartphone lives. These are markets which perhaps are not as internet connective. They don't have so many sort of perhaps risks in that term. But there is a complete infrastructure which is dedicated, as we are, to solving the problems along the maybe 10, 20, 30, even 50-year lifespan of some of these pieces of equipment. Right. And that's what we do. We've kind of built a business around solving obsolescence problems. So we are almost competing with design engineers to do a redesign of their own product. But what happens when, let's say, in this situation where a chip is not available, so they think, well, we'll redesign the board for the new chip. The problem that's going to occur there is that if they have stock of half-built or if they have other components or whatever in, you know, just in time, ready to be built, they're going to have to scrap some of that equipment. So that's one thing, there's scrappage. And secondly, you know, there's this problem downstream with repair and overhaul that actually suddenly it's a different board. So they've got two different versions of the board and this one won't work with that one. And this component, obviously the original component that caused the redesign is not available. So the first version of boards can no longer be repaired. So what we're doing essentially by providing an adapter-based solution is giving this— giving this solution will go into the past and into the future. So we can go into the past and repair it or overhaul it. We can go into the future and do the same thing when the time comes with the future modules without actually having this this sort of further obsolescence problem made out of a redesign.

Presumably then a customer, potential customer, could come to you and say, John, give me some advice. What's the best thing to do here? You know, should we do a redesign or actually can you breathe new life into this with what's currently there today? And you could do the cost benefit analysis for them, couldn't you?

There are times when redesign is, you know, I don't want to say that that's the bad solution. That's, yeah, there are times when redesign is the right thing to do, you know, and I'm thinking of Excuse me. I was having a conversation with somebody I know that's involved in obsolescence in the train, the railway industry. So we're talking rolling stock here. And he was saying to me that they have contracts that maybe last— so this is the manufacturer has a maintenance contract that lasts for a period of time. And throughout that time, they might have perhaps a period of time when they will do a redesign. Like, you've probably seen them in the trains. I know we have our local trains that are refurbed service trains that have come from somewhere else. So quite often halfway through this lifespan of the rolling stock, there's a sort of a redesign that sweeps through. So what we've seen recently is USB sockets creeping into trains, you know, Wi-Fi has appeared, digital communications have appeared at the top telling you where the train's going. They're the sort of things that are done perhaps mid-time through the life of the rolling stock. So there is a good place for redesign. But at the same time, the other 15 years either side of that redesign, there's constant obsolescence to be dealt with.

Can you give us, like, just give us a typical scenario of a customer then, somebody who might come to you, the sort of problem they might have, and how you've helped them in the past?

Sure. So, so, so typical, typical thing for us will be, will be our Adaptix program, which is something where a customer would come to us and say, you know, this chip that I've been using in this assembly, whatever it is, some electronic assembly, this chip is no longer available. It could be that it's obsolete, so it's permanently not available. And it could be that it's temporarily obsolete. So it's got a diminished supply, maybe for 52 weeks, like the semiconductor crisis that we had, which to many companies would be as good as obsolete. So they would come to us and we would say, well, look, we would scour the market, we would find, in honesty, without getting too complex, we would find a similar chip of some kind, maybe a different footprint, maybe a slightly different technology. And we would design an adapter, which would mean that that chip would actually work on the old board.

Right.

And the key thing here is it will work on the old board, the board previous to that, the board in the future. This is compatibility forwards and backwards, which really means that people are not wasting, they're not scrapping stock, and it's not, we're keeping the repair and the remanufacturing processes going in the future as well.

The main thing that's driving this for you is what it's always been driving it then, is that, you know, these products are becoming older, they're becoming less efficient, or are the drivers for the business changing as we go into the 21st century? So, you know, it's all about ESG, isn't it? It's all about reducing impact on the environment.

Yeah, I mean, we've seen a huge change here because What we've been doing, really what Winslow has been doing for the last nearly 50 years, is, was always just the right thing to do for us, which was, you know, making components available for people to continue the, to improve the longevity of products. Yeah. What we kind of realized with the way the world has turned is that actually that's the only way that we should be working. You know, we should all be doing this and whether we're making smartphones or we're making radar, You know, we should, we should all be making that kit last as long as possible.

I think circular economy really fits. You know, you're fixing things, you're making them last longer, you're breathing new life into them. So obviously then that means those resources don't come out of the ground, energy doesn't get used in making that stuff again.

Do you know what we find the biggest problem with this kind of service that we offer and that people are still putting their heads in the sand, if you like. So they're still sort of thinking, it probably won't happen to me, I'll probably be okay, it'll probably come back in stock by the time I need it. Right. Really what we're suggesting is people just face it, face the reality, be prepared for that reality, even if it doesn't happen, because it's a lot easier to do it when there's no pressure. So talk to us, talk to people like us before you actually hit that problem. That's an important message, I think. Think about it first.

So to what extent can your customers get a good understanding of when things are going to fail? Is that part of what the specifications—

I think certain, certain elements of obsolescence are predictable, right? So, you know, you see a chip company, an integrated circuit manufacturer is taken over by another one. What's going to happen? You know, there's going to be a rationalization of the ranges of one or the other or both of those two companies. They wouldn't have come together if there wasn't some kind of cooperation potentially between the two. So you can expect some obsolescence there. Technology changes along the way, perhaps less so in critical environments than in smartphones, but it does. So you can see when a new technology comes along, maybe the old stuff is going to go obsolete. When new manufacturing techniques come along, maybe the others are going to go obsolete. And also, You know, we're seeing now at the moment in 2023 that the chip crisis, people are saying it's coming to an end. People are saying that the actual chip sales are going to go down this year.

Okay.

Now that in itself is another opportunity for obsolescence to creep in because, you know, what the chip manufacturers are going to be looking for is profitable lines. Yeah. And the ones that sell, you know, 300 components to somebody making some weird old thing from the 1980s.

Yep.

They're not going to be there. So you can see there is a predictability about the patterns that are occurring in the semiconductor industry. So just be aware of those. There are even software programs out there. There are many different software programs out there that monitor and compile information of last time buy dates and so on for semiconductors. So there are ways, there are things people can do to mitigate that risk before before the inevitable happens and they get stuck without chips. But you know what's interesting? I've done a spring into early summer period of exhibitions around the country, and I found everybody who's involved in electronics in some way, whether it's procurement, design, or project managing, excuse me, have all been really excited to, genuinely excited to speak to us about what we're doing. Because whether they have a need for it at the moment, they support the principle. So they can see the reasons why we're doing what we do and why we might at some point in time in the future be able to help them.

I understand you're also involved with the International Institute of Obsessive Management, if I've got that right.

Now, what these are, these are professionals that are involved in industry, in very often primes in the sectors that you mentioned. So these are top-tier people. And they're all involved in coming together, A, networking together to sort of discuss the solutions and the problems that they've had, but also B, there's qualifications, there's a structure of members meetings, and indeed we're having a conference in October in 2023. So it's this great opportunity to learn from others rather than making your own mistakes. There's an opportunity to learn from others and the systems that they put into place for, particularly as I was talking, earlier on about monitoring upcoming obsolescence and dealing with it in a structured, predictable way. There's a system whereby they can come along if they're interested to a members meeting for free of charge. The first meeting is free. There are lots of different ways to join. And obviously, there's, as I mentioned, the conference that's coming along. So lots of different things they can do. They can go and find a website which is iiom.org, right? Okay. Which is, which is their website. Or hopefully we can share, or they can get in touch with me on LinkedIn or whatever, and I can share details with them.

I'm just thinking, you know, if somebody's watching this, how could they think to themselves, okay, I want to go give John a call because, you know, we haven't checked our end of life or end of support agreements on our kit, and how would we do that? Could they come to you and find out about that?

Sure they can. One of the great things about this obsolescence community that we work in is everybody is keen to share information. We're not in competition with each other as such. So there is a good information sharing sort of situation. And even if, do you know what, if people come to me and they want to know something that I can't help them with or I don't necessarily know the answer, I will know somebody who does. And can.

Okay.

So I would encourage people, yeah, to get— if they're interested to find out more, to get in touch with me and I'll find them the answer.

Brilliant. Sounds excellent. And I think just going back to those original reasons— efficiency, increased, you know, risk, security risk, lack of competitiveness, increased maintenance costs, and just lack of compatibility with other systems— means that this needs to be something I would have thought that you know, every company, every IT, every electronics company really needs to have on its radar in some shape or form, you know, and is there a document that they would have, you know, within their IT department that is like the end of life document or the end of service document or the upgrade document?

Yeah, there is, you know, there is within this sort of training from the, from the ION, the Institute, You know, there are obsolescence management plans, sort of most engineering companies, there's some kind of quality standard that's been established for decades. You know, the obsolescence standard is something newer, and it's something that perhaps less companies have, but it's something they really should have. And it does— we were talking earlier on a little bit about ESG, and it links in to the ESG systems, like principles of a corporate in particular. So it's just about longevity and about doing the right thing by the world.

So, so an obsolescence management plan could be a really key document that organizations could go look for and say, okay, you know, how, what kit have we got? How old is it? What are we going to do with it? What's its life expectancy? You know, how can we make it last longer? And if they haven't got one, maybe you could be, you'd be able to create that for them.

Yeah, I think so. And it's, it's, It's a great career opportunity at the moment because lots of people are looking for jobs following the Great Reset, if you like, if that's the thing. They're looking for jobs perhaps that support more sustainability and just a general interest in the welfare of the world. And obsolescence is a great place for that. There's an opportunity for them. It's a growing market. It's a great opportunity for new people to come into the industry. And really take it on and bring us some enthusiasm. I think that would be great.

Is it an area of industry, area of expertise that's getting missed by a good number of companies, or they just don't care?

I think it is. I think, you know, obviously lots of people have had a difficult time. Like, it's not been an easy place to be in electronics or in manufacturing for that matter, I think, over the last, certainly the last 3 years.

Yeah.

And I think that puts everybody in a position where they're on the back foot and they've been— maybe staffing has been reduced. Maybe they're not in the best position to be planning up front.

Right.

So I think, yes, I think there is a possibility that there's more people or more companies in that situation than you would expect.

Right. That could use this service. Brilliant. Just give us your contact details then, please, John. Website address and email?

Okay, so yeah, website is, um, winslowadaptics.com. So it's Winslow, W-I-N-S-L-O-W, winslowadaptics.com.

Okay, brilliant.

And if anybody wants to contact you directly, um, well, they can, you know, I have my email address, they can have my email address if they want, and it's quite simply John D d4dysen@winslowadaptics.com.

J-O-H-N. J-O-H-N, yeah. Brilliant. That's, uh, it's been really, really, really insightful and really helpful to speak with you, John, about this, to learn more about it. And, uh, we just want to thank you again for your time on this podcast.

Okay, thank you, thank you very much, Paul. Bye now. See you later. Bye.