Tyre Waste Solutions with Warren Steel, Carlton Forest Renewables: The Future of Tyre Pyrolysis

Our competitors will build large-scale plants that take in, you know, perhaps 100,000 tonnes of stock a year. We build small-scale plants, deployable plants, right? And we send those plants to the problem rather than having the problem travel in an unsustainable method to us.

Hello and welcome to Rethink What Matters, the podcast dedicated to aligning the economy with the ecology and everyone for improved business performance, stronger families, and a greener, cooler planet. And today I'm joined by Warren Steele of Carlton Forest Renewables, and we're going to be discussing tyre pyrolysis.

Thanks for having us on today.

Apparently 1.5 billion tyres are discarded annually worldwide according to the World Business Council for Sustainable Development.

Yeah, I think tyre disposal is a significant problem on a global basis. I think the numbers that you're probably looking at there are probably the the numbers of the tyres that are disposed of on an annual basis, it probably doesn't even take into account those that are stored, those that are perhaps even illegally dumped. And, you know, we've got to consider the bigger picture. In the UK alone, we're managing something along the lines of 60 million casings on an annualised basis. So it's a fairly significant problem. That Carlton Forest are trying to address and so far successfully addressing.

Brilliant. Can you tell us a little bit more about Carlton Forest Renewables then, please, Warren?

Yeah, absolutely. So Carlton Forest Renewables was born out of the Carlton Forest Group as a business. Historically, we are a 3PL, so warehousing and logistics, and our CEO, Mark Pepper, took a punt about 7 or 8 years ago and went into the renewable sector. You know, there's technologies out there that can be employed, but I think close to his heart was the idea that he runs a logistics business. We run trailers, we run tyres, we discard tyres. So let's look at something that's aligned to the business in terms of how we manage what we're investing in. And around 2018, Mark went out to South Africa and bought a company called IRR Manufacturing, which is International Rubber Recycling. And that business was a pyrolysis technology business, so tires to oil. And effectively, what Mark did was lifted the production equipment out of South Africa, brought it to the UK, but we still retain the manufacturing elements of our business in South Africa. So we distribute our plants on a global basis now from South Africa. But I'll talk you through in this podcast how we do that and what we do with tyre waste.

Okay. All right. So it's a global business then?

Yeah, we're a global business. We're working on operations, establishing operations in Australia. We have an Australian partner. And they— we have a 5-plant deal in Australia at the moment. So the first plant will go into an area just outside Brisbane in the coming months. And we're also working on a second plant in northern Sweden at the moment. So yeah, we're expanding to areas that are far-flung, which lends itself to our technology. You know, our competitors will build large-scale plants that take in, you know, perhaps 100,000 tonnes of stock a year. We build small-scale plants, deployable plants, right? And we send those plants to the problem rather than having the problem travel in an unsustainable method to us.

That's a great idea. So let's just talk a little bit more about the problem of tyres and what happens to them when they get discarded up until now. Or, you know, what other— what other ways are there of recycling tyres that I think perhaps not as efficient as pyrolysis?

Yeah, I think so. On a global basis, typically tyres are starting to be banned from landfills, even in third world countries now they're jumping onto landfill bans. But in addition to that, you know, where markets exist in Asia typically or Turkey, those markets are starting to close down on the basis that countries are now wanting to deal with the issues in-house. You take Australia for example, so about 3 years ago now Australia banned the export of whole tyres for recovery outside the borders of Australia, and that's where our technology lends itself to effective management of tyre waste. Effectively, what we've got now is we've got the ability to in-house manage that situation rather than trying to bale, box, or containerize and send our problem to another country. The alternatives to landfill would naturally be cement and clinker manufacture. The high CV of the rubber complements a non-coal-based alternative fuel. But typically boxing and baling tyres and sending them into India for fairly low-quality pyrolysis processes is the key element of the point in time.

Right, okay. How are tires made? What goes into a tire? They're not just rubber, is it? But there are lots of components in there to make it—

yeah, yeah, I'm certainly not a tire manufacturing expert, but, uh, you know, carbon is, is, is a major component, um, of that. And I think, you know, the, the more tire manufacturers that can start to adopt the thought process of using recovered carbon black into their processes rather than virgin carbon black, that'll add to the sustainability of the tyre manufacturing process. Now, within our process, we produce a raw carbon char, and that carbon char then goes off for a milling process, which then lends itself to, depending on the quality of the char that we're producing, lends itself to being coined a recovered carbon black. There are a couple of manufacturers that are, that are using recovered carbon black over virgin carbon black within their process at the moment. So yeah, we're moving in the right direction as an industry.

So does that mean that you can make tires out of tires, out of old tires?

Yeah, from a circularity point of view, absolutely. So I don't know if you can make them one from the other, but certainly you can contribute to the manufacture of new tires from your old tires.

Right.

You know, the Colton Forrest technology is effectively It's an oxygen-starved heat process. So we are decomposing or breaking down the tyre into its constituent parts that contributed to the original manufacture of the tyre. So we present into our process shredded tyre crumb to a fraction size sub-20mm. We have a specific residency time and we have 2 reactors on our line in Worksop in Nottinghamshire. Each operates at about 450°C, and that process within an hour's residency time produces a combination of a raw carbon char along with condensing and non-condensing gases. Then through a process of flowing the gases through a condensing array, we're able to harness syngas, we're able to harness oil, and effectively The carbon char that we produce then goes through a deodorizer and it eventually becomes millable at that point in time.

Okay.

Which is the circularity element to it. If we're burning through incineration or going through cement or clinker processes, the challenge is that your CO2 emissions are probably higher than what we're achieving. Our emission standards, our emission control systems, our CEM system meets the emission standards that are issued by local authorities. We're a fully permitted, fully authorized facility. So yeah, circularity is at the heart of what we do.

Brilliant, brilliant. And so just want to cover that again a little bit in terms of the products that you're producing through, you know, the end of this tire pyrolysis process. Where, where does that— where do those products end up eventually? You mentioned tires, or are there other, you know, other applications to these, to the output of your process?

So if we, if we, if we consider the the internal use of the production process. So through the process, we're producing a raw carbon char, we're producing a tyre pyrolysis oil, we're producing waste heat, and we're producing syngas. Now with the Colton Forest technology, we have what we coined an island mode solution. And within the island mode solution, we have the ability to reutilize the waste heat through a steam turbine. So we boil water and we generate electricity. You know, our plant generates something in the region of about 200 kilowatts of electricity per hour, and the plant itself consumes around 140 to 160 kilowatts per hour of electricity. So we're not drawing— we don't have a net draw from the grid. We're self-sustainable from an electricity production point of view. Additionally, our syngas Once our syngas goes through the thermal oxidizer and is scrubbed and cleaned up, that syngas then recirculates into our burners and fuels our burners. Now, we can't be naive enough to think that that's sufficient in terms of spiking our heat. So we do use LPG. We do have the use of virgin gases to spike our burners, but only to the tune of about 25%. The balance of our fuel for our burners comes from our self-production process. The two saleable products that we're producing are the tyre pyrolysis oil and the carbon char. Now, the carbon char, that produces around 350 kilograms for every tonne of tyre that we put into the hopper process or into the pyrolysis process. And once that's gone through a secondary heating system, or what we coin a deodoriser to manage the resultant heavy aromatics or to eliminate any additional gases or noxious materials. That then goes off to a third-party miller here in the UK, and that milling process then engages a wider market, a consumer market or a manufacturing market. So that's the carbon char. So the last one within the circle of production is the, is the tyre pyrolysis oil. The tyre pyrolysis oil, I mean, two very simple thought processes would be using it as a blending oil for heating, for heating applications. However, we have strong relationships with refineries here in the UK. We have spent a fairly significant amount of money testing our oil. We have an aggregated value of around 55-56% in terms of biogenic content. So the oil that we're producing out of our plant is very attractive as a green fuel, as a blending fuel or a co-processing fuel within the refinery markets.

Okay. Okay. Thanks for explaining that. And so, you know, you're installing these plants around the world. Do they, you know, do you employ a lot of people with that? And is it good for the local economy?

Yeah, so, you know, our IP-related products are produced in Johannesburg. So we have our manufacturing operations in Johannesburg in South Africa. But typically those are— the manufacturing process there engages the heavy-end equipment. So our thermal reactors, our reactors and our thermal oxidizers rather, our dosing equipment, our condensing array. But as we, as we move into alternative markets, we then have the ability to engage local suppliers, fans, engines, sensors, you know, all that type of stuff, pipework, welding labor, all the localized stuff that we typically would find more expensive to ship. We source at a local level.

Okay, so it's good.

Excellent.

It's good for the local economy then. And what about laws, rules, regulations? Do they provide a challenge to you in different countries?

Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's why we've adopted the model that we have in terms of our distribution efforts. So if you take Australia for argument's sake, we've not sort of gone blind into Australia. We've engaged the trade mission here in the UK at Australia House. So they assist in terms of what we do. They set up meetings with, you know, with the local governments. They assist us in terms of setting up joint venture businesses. That said, those are all the administrative tasks. So we do seek assistance from those that know what they're doing in the local environments. In Australia, we have taken on a partner, so we have a joint venture partner on a split equity basis. And our partners in Australia are based in Brisbane, so they are local, they understand the market, they understand the, you know, this politics that comes with everything in the grand scheme of things, but they also understand the problems that we need to address and they can address them head on. It's not easy managing our deployment in Australia from the UK, but, you know, we have a project team You know, every Wednesday morning we meet very early, which is late afternoon for the Australians, and it seems to work. And that's the same with the Swedes. So, you know, within the Swedish market, we have a, we have a localized partner based in Stockholm. And, you know, they, they act as financial drivers, as market drivers, as research analysts. And they, you know, on both sides of the coin, Australia and, and Sweden. Great, great solutions we have in place.

Right. So in terms of sourcing the tyres then for your tyre pyrolysis, is there competition over, over this?

Yeah, you know, I mean, let's start in the UK. Competition for tyre stock in the UK is fierce. It really is fierce. It is the biggest challenge that we have in terms of producing tyre pyrolysis oil or raw carbon char for the wider market. You know, the biggest challenge we have is geopolitical. In that the opportunity to box or containerize, bale and containerize tyres and send them off to India or to Turkey is attractive from a financial perspective. The biggest challenge with that though is it doesn't meet circular economy standards. It doesn't, it's not sustainable. You know, the ability to drive sustainable disposal methods is one of our key ethos within the renewables business. We subscribe to the ISCC accreditation, and ISCC is a sustainability certification that needs to flow through your entire supply chain. So from the oil refineries that take our oil right down to the guys that shred our tyre crumb, you know, we need to make sure that everybody meets those sustainability standards. But yes, you know, to come back to the question and point, it's tough to find tyre stock. You know, when there's 60 million casings, we're trying to find per plant in the UK around 8,000 tonnes, which is around 800 to 900, maybe 1 million tyre casings per year per plant.

Right.

You know, we are competing on a geopolitical basis.

Right, okay, okay. And, uh, are you finding that new rules are helping in this regard for you then? The, you know, the world is trying to become sustainable or hopefully more regenerative. Are you noticing that new rules and laws and regulations are working in your favor?

Yeah, I think, I think so. I think it's a slow burn, uh, forgive the pun, um, which definitely wasn't intended, but, uh, you know, it's certainly a slow burn. You know, if you take the Arab states, we have the UAE partners in the UAE or potential partners in the UAE who have approached us now. And the reason for that is, I mean, you'd think, okay, well, you know, does the UAE need to produce more oil? No, they don't. And the offtake challenge there is you're not going to get your oil that you're producing into a an Arab-based refinery because that's not how they work there. So all oil produced from a renewable factor is exported out of the UAE. Now, the challenge is playing into pyrolysis operators' hands in that a lot of, a lot of countries are following those sustainability standards. So they're now shutting down their exports into alternative markets for disposal and they're managing the processes on their own. So if you, you know, the UAE has adopted the Australian model, we will not export our tyres outside of the UAE anymore. You know, it's staying in-house and that's now law. And, and many, and there's many countries following the exact same model.

I mean, are you engaging with the tyre manufacturers as well? I mean, you know, what with the science-based targets, Scopes 1, 2, and 3, are they interested in working with you? And then thereby knowing what's happening to their tyres after they've sold them?

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. You know, Carlton Forest directly is engaging a couple of the very large tyre manufacturers. Only last week we had— no, yeah, last week we had a meeting with a Finnish-based tyre manufacturer who are already using recovered carbon black within their manufacturing process. So I think it's important that we, you know, we run the systems in parallel. One, we engage those that are utilising the recovered products within their manufacturing process, but additionally use that as an evidence-based case to engage those that are slightly wary about using recovered-based products rather than virgin products in their manufacturing process. And, you know, rightly so. It's a safety issue. And until they're 100% happy that their safety is not compromised, you know, we will continue to fight that good fight.

Right.

Okay.

But there's no— so Michelin aren't encouraging Michelin tyres to be returned to them? Nothing like that happens?

Yeah, they are. They absolutely are. You know, I'm loath to point out specific manufacturers. However, you know, as I said, and this is in the public space, certainly Michelin and Bridgestone are actively engaged in the process of researching, development, installation of technology that would utilize alternative waste streams or alternative products within their manufacturing process. So yeah, definitively they are. There's also technology coming out of the woodwork now that would allow the traceability elements to complement the ISCC accreditation. So if Mrs. Miggins puts a tire on her car at a leading high street tire distributor, you know, we will be able to establish that that particular manufactured tire from Mrs. Miggins' car, once it's done 40,000 miles, comes off her car, it's then barcode scanned again, and the traceability in terms of the disposal methods are reconciled so that that particular manufacturer can close the loop on their disposal responsibility, their producer responsibility.

Fantastic. Imagine if all manufacturers of all products did stuff like that. You know, imagine that would be a home run for us all, wouldn't it?

Absolutely.

Manufacturers took responsibility for their products as they go.

We also need government to step up. You know, there's a funding requirement there. There's a resource requirement. There's a legislative requirement and government needs to step up and play their parts in this process.

If Mrs. Miggins wanted to make sure that her tyre was being— her tyres were being properly recycled, is there any way she can do that at the moment? Is there any badges, any certifications she can look out for?

Yeah, so the ISCC accreditation, if Mrs. Miggins goes into her local high street retailer and asks them if they are ISCC accredited. It's an international sustainability certification and the ISCC reconciliation, the ISCC audit process, the ISCC ethos is all about sustainability and you've got to have buy-in from everybody and the major buy-in is the end user of the recovered product. So, you know, we're driven by the— we're driven by by the refineries. So the refineries, if we're producing them, if we're supplying them with tyre process oil, the refineries want us to be ISCC accredited, which means if we want to bring tyre crumb for processing into our plant, our suppliers have to be ISCC accredited, which means the retailer has to be ISCC accredited to supply them. So it only needs one driver to maintain a sustainable supply chain.

When you say refineries, are there any household names you might recognize?

I don't know that there'd be any household names. Certainly the Humber Refinery is one that we engage with on a regular basis. Okay. But yeah, you know, there's a few. The UK is slightly is dragging themselves into the use of sustainable coprocessing fuels. But the Humber Refinery is leading that charge at this point in time.

Right.

Great, great.

And I'm just curious, in the Humber Refinery, after they've taken your pyrolysis oil, they turn it into what? What do they do with it?

They coprocess it. So they blend it with virgin fuels.

Right.

So it's all based on the biogenic content. So naturally, the higher the biogenic content, the greener the fuel. You know, at the moment we have a— there's a significant hole in the market in terms of the opportunity to supply alternative fuels. There are not enough alternative fuel suppliers for the hunger that the refineries have to coprocess. Specifically, you know, the Humber refinery at this point in time. And, you know, the more they can bring in, the greener the fuel will be. So, you know, I jump back to the government intervention. The government have to come to the party with establishing— they set us targets, they set us goals. But there's that skills gap, there's that funding gap that stops the ability to move forward at a reasonable pace.

So, you know, how does Carlton Forest Renewables then, if you like, look at sustainability alongside tire pyrolysis and that process?

I think, Paul, you know, we've got to consider certain elements of, of how we engage the process and whether or not the process is going back into the system. You know, we're very clear in terms of how we operate our pyrolysis process, it is ultimately going as a co-processing fuel or a similar energy-based model. We limit our emissions to well below standards. So we're maintaining sustainability from that point of view. Yeah, we, you know, when we bought the IRR business, we enhanced the scrubbing technology in terms of noxious gases. So we have a thermal oxidizer attached to our two reactors that manages the gaseous output before we emit to atmosphere. And what we emit to atmosphere is significantly below what we're allowed to. So we feel that from a sustainability point of view, we're going above and beyond. And as I said earlier on, or at another stage within this podcast, I said, we could have employed technology that simply created heat to create friction, to create a turbine to spin and generate electricity. But whilst we are doing that, we are creating heat through steam engines, we're creating electricity through a steam turbine. That's for our own electrical generation so that we're not drawing off the grid. And that underscores our sustainability model.

Brilliant, brilliant. I think it's in the name as well— carbon forest renewable sort of sense. You know, absolutely, we are doing this in the cleanest way that it can be done and solving a really big problem. I mean, that's a— however many billions of tires that is every year, that's obviously a big problem.

So yeah, exactly.

Yeah, I really appreciate your time on this podcast. I've learned a lot about tire pyrolysis and the process you know, and the problem that you're addressing and how you're helping us to create a more sustainable, hopefully regenerative world. Thanks again. Thanks for your time.

Thanks for having us, Paul.