S6:E14 - Mental Health Awareness in Small Towns with Chris "Rhino" Swenson

You are listening to the Growing Small Towns Show, a podcast dedicated to supporting you, the person who really cares about the future of your small town. We believe when people get better, everything gets better, and our episodes offer the ideas and actions that prioritize people and small communities. Thank you for listening. We're so glad you're here. Our guest on today's episode is Chris Swenson, and he is a mental health practitioner of more than a couple of decades, and he is the owner of Rhino Wellness Center, uh, located in rural Colorado. He reached out to me. This was one of those, uh, fun things where, um, he was looking for places to talk about this. He specifically offers mental health therapy, direct therapy services in, again, in rural, a rural community. He is actually from a community not far from where we record this podcast. And so when he found me on the internet, he reached out and said, hey, I would love to talk. And today, the day that we recorded this episode, is still in May, which is Mental Health Awareness Month. And we couldn't think of a better topic to close out the first half of this season of the show than to discuss mental health with you all. So Chris offers some practical things along with just the general awareness that we need to think through as we tackle this still highly stigmatized topic. And so as I leave you for the summer, we leave you for the summer, I just want to remind you all that if you are struggling, we've got all the links to all of the national kind of hotlines that you could call in the show notes. But more than anything, we just want to remind you that you don't have to struggle alone. You're not alone. And whatever it is that you're feeling, whatever it is that you're struggling with, um, you're not only not the first person, but you're not probably the only one dealing with it right now. Um, shame and difficulty and fear and doubt, uh, tends to make us feel, uh, it pulls us to isolation and it pulls us to loneliness and, and, uh, kind of exacerbating all the panic and in difficulty that comes with hard times. And we just want to continue to be a beacon of hope, of light, of possibility on this show. And Chris, everything he shares, just a lot of clear takeaways. Be sure to check out the show notes on this episode if you're interested in connecting with any of his resources. He refers to some podcast episodes where he goes into a little more depth about some of the things we discuss here. But enjoy your summer. If there's anything you want us to be tackling on the show when we reopen our season in September, just reach on out. You can contact me directly at director@growingsmalltowns.org. In the meantime, just don't forget, we're here, we're cheering you on, and we hope you have an awesome summer. We'll see you at the start of our next season. Hey, Chris, welcome to the Growing Small Towns show.

Thanks, Rebecca. I'm glad to be on. I appreciate the honor of coming on the show, so thank you so much.

Oh, you bet. So it's kind of, um, we're like second to the last day, uh, the day that we're sitting here, of the month of May. And, um, it's Mental Health Awareness Month, and so I thought this would be a great show to cap the first half of this season here in 2026. Um, so why don't you just share a little bit about— well, and honestly, you're— this is— you're one of the guests and sometimes this happens, that you, you connected with me, you reached out to me based on something you'd seen or heard. So maybe share a little bit about, about that, because I always think that's fun for people to hear, because I literally will respond. I will respond to your texts if you— or emails if you reach out and say, hey, like, I'm thinking about this. So, which, thank you.

Yeah, no, I would.

Yeah, because it's fun.

Yeah, because, no, I mean, I was— I don't have my own podcast and getting that kind of started, and I just started with, with my new project, The Rhino Resilience. And so I thought, what better way? I need to get out and try to get this out to people. So I searched around for a lot of other podcasts and, you know, I did have like ChatGPT kind of help narrow things down, but a lot of it was mainly me. And then the cool thing was, is when I spotted yours, I really loved what you do on the show. A lot of the things around the small towns, because I've always been told like in order to build like a, like a strong community, you need to build strong people.. And so, I love what you guys were doing on there. And so, then as I kind of searched through your website, I'm like, oh my gosh, she's from Oakes. I know where that's at. Like, I grew up—

that doesn't happen all the time. So, that was fun for me too.

Yeah, absolutely. Because I mean, I grew up right on, like, right in Wahpeton, North Dakota. Listeners up that way might know where it's at. Down here in Colorado, they have no idea. But I always tell them it's like right on the border between Minnesota and North Dakota. It's like a river you cross, you're there. But so I came across that, I thought, man, this might be a great, great show to do. And so I just reached out. So I was glad that you, that you did respond. Yes.

Yeah. Well, why don't you tell us a bit about your podcast and we'll make sure to link it, of course, in the show notes, but just start anywhere you want with your background and I'll jump in with questions like what brought you to doing this podcast?

What do you focus on?

What do you think our listeners need to know?

Yeah, I think it kind of a, a little bit of a backstory on it. I mean, I've been a mental health therapist for over 20 years, and honestly, it's actually approaching 25 now. That kind of dates me as my age. But, um, so basically 20+ years in the trenches of mental health, and I've always operated in rural areas and seeing a lot of the problems that people are having. And I, you know, for years I would try different other projects, like, okay, let me try to build this side business, or let me try to do this this other thing, the entrepreneurial spirit, you know.

Mm-hmm.

And things just weren't quite working, or it wasn't my passion. But there was this calling that I could hear telling me that, look, you built this idea of Rhino Mentality that you adopted that has changed your life for the better, and you've been basically teaching it in your therapy office for years. You need to bring it out to people. And I would ignore that little calling in us, if you will, until finally I said, okay, this is what I got to do because there's a lot of problems in our rural communities with mental health and stuff. You know, especially our suicide rates are outrageous. You know, you look at 2.5 times more than urban environments. Some studies show 3.5, but it's even more than veterans at this moment. And then you look at the depression and anxiety that's going on. It's also increasing. And I kept thinking, what's going on? And I can't just wait until people get problemed really bad and then they come into my office and now I can help so many, only so many. So, I thought, why don't I get this out there? And so, I built the website, got some articles on there. I created the podcast as well, as I love to do that kind of venue to put out some different helpful tools. And I saw that there's a lot of people that are talking about mental health, bringing out awareness, especially for rural areas, which is absolutely amazing. However, there's this gap between bringing out awareness, but then what do you do after that? You know, what are those specific things? And I thought, wow, you know, there's a, a lot of tools and tricks and tips that I've learned over the years that can be applied to people that they can begin to use, you know, little each day. And a lot of things that people, you know, for me, it's interesting because I've done this for so long that I assume that a lot of people already know this. But there are things people don't know about themselves that just learning how their mind and body works becomes helpful. And so I released like the Rhino Resilience Podcast. I think I've got 10 episodes out now. So I'm just beginning. So I'm getting myself out there, trying to get connected with people to spread the word. So that's kind of a little bit how it got all started.

Okay. Well, there's a couple of things I want to share, I guess, as I was, as I was listening to you. I don't know, you and I haven't talked about this, but mental health is like a— it's a really important thing that I think we have highlighted kind of consistently. Throughout the show for sure. I'm very pro-therapy. I talk about it a lot. And in fact, whenever I can, if I— if something really hits me in a session that I just know would resonate with people, I just share what I learned, right? Just because I know, I know that one of the biggest challenges to— one of the challenges to accessing therapy— well, there's— I think there's probably two for rural places— is It's first, just, are there enough actual practitioners, right? Like, there's an actual, there's an actual shortage of mental health practitioners in rural places. But then secondly, it's the affordability of it, or if your insurance covers, you know, the access, the actual being able to access it. And that is assuming those two things, those two barriers come after you've gotten over this internal stigma that we're still dealing with, right? So it's— we, we, um, in our little community here, we have this local mental health coalition. Um, it's all volunteer and it's run under our, under our umbrella just for funding if we apply for grants and things. Um, but I can't tell you how— this is why I was excited to have you come on, um, because I think anytime a therapist says, I want to democratize that— that's the word I'm choosing, that might not be the right word— but distribute it more widely um, so we can overcome some of those barriers, even if it is just sharing it through a podcast. Like, because I think, I think, um, mental health— and I want your opinion on this, Chris, as a, as a practitioner— I feel like mental health has somehow been treated very differently than the rest of our health. Like, it's, it's isolated and parsed out as if it's this separate weird thing. And also, I think— so I want your opinion on these two things. Like, A, do you feel that way too? And then the second thing is just these things can actually be learned. There's skills to— that can be developed, practices that can be tried and repeated to where they become habitual. Like, mental health isn't this thing that we just can't do anything about if we're struggling. I think sometimes those two things are still challenges with it in rural places, in smaller communities. How— I don't know, tell me what you think about that, if that feels true, if like— and what you've seen in your experience with those two things.

No, I, I agree, because I think that mental health has been treated differently compared to the other medical aspects. Um, and I always tell people, like, you know, I had enough training as much as a doctor has, but I certainly don't get paid like that, right? You know, and You know, there's almost like this weird taboo. And I— people would say that kind of the wording of it too, where, you know, is, you know, it's, you know, I'm struggling with cancer or whatever, you know. But when it comes to mental health, it's as if it's an identity that I am depressed. And there's, there's more to them than what that is. But there's been a weird language around that. And you're right, with rural areas, that's what I've seen is You know, you can have the limited access is one thing. Maybe there's not a whole lot of providers if there are any, but then sometimes you, you know, you travel great distances or you end up with on online if some rural areas don't even have online access. And so utilizing those is great. But the other end of it is, is do you have a therapist that understands rural small town culture? And that becomes a big non-fit sometimes with that. But a big thing that I've noticed is when we're struggling, especially out here, we tend to keep everything in and quiet. There's just this idea of we have to appear strong and stoic and we can handle things on our own. We don't want to burden other people, stuff like that. And a lot of the way I look at it with You know, I built Rhino Resilience on 4 pillars, but it's almost rebranding what strength really looks like. Yeah, because I love that. The idea of being strong, I don't want to get rid of that in rural areas because you, you have to be. I think that is very, very important. It's just knowing what strong really means, you know, and what that looks like. And so having that strength for the long haul is what I'm after because we can tough things out, we can push through, we can get through things. There's no doubt about it. But can you do that consistently for the long haul? And that's where, like, the 4 pillars kind of come in. And when you adopt that from a different strength, where you become stronger and wiser and more resilient than before. Yeah.

Do you want to— are you, um, I don't want to have you share too much of your framework, you know, share, please share what you're willing to, but are you willing to kind of give me an overview of those the Four Pillars, like what they are? I would love to hear them.

Yeah, because you get like the first pillar, which is strength with an unbreakable will. And what you'll find with the pillars is it's not like linear where you got to do pillar 1, then move on to pillar 2 and such. They're all integrated, so it all comes together. So you get the first part about strength with an unbreakable will. And a lot of that is defining what true strength really looks like. You know, like, strength isn't just, you know, keep quiet, tough it out, push through. No, it's knowing when to reach out for backup. It's knowing when to bring in your, you know, your teammates or people around you and taking care of yourself. But the biggest one most people miss is recovery. And so we need to get our nervous systems back down after a day and things like that. So strength is get to be redefined differently. But the unbreakable will piece that comes with it is the idea that when problems start happening, the first thing that usually goes for people personally, even in their business, is their reason why, their sense of purpose. Why are they doing it? It starts to get questioned. And once you start to question your will or your purpose and your why, that's when things start to really break down easier. And so learning how to develop an unbreakable will, what that looks like, you know, in building. And the second one is calm and steady. And this brings in— it's almost like two sides of a coin with strength, as we have out here. What we know is to be tough, push through, be hard, grit, grind, all that. But there's another side to that coin, which is that calm and steady. And that's the part of being able to— how do you remain calm in the midst of chaos? And I understand that it's— when I hear a lot of people say that, like, I mean, if I'm going to nosedive in an airplane at 30,000 feet and they tell me to remain calm, there is no— I don't know if anyone ever can, right? So yeah, so what I'm getting at with being calm is just being able to manage your internal stuff so that your brain doesn't just hijack you into reactive mode. And then there's the steadiness of what people really value, what people really need is that steadiness. And a lot of these are built off of the true nature of the animal, of the rhino, where most people just see them as being aggressive and that, but they're really not. And they say they got such a thick skin, which isn't actually true. But you look at the ancient symbolism behind the rhino, and this is what you see about grounding, about calm, steadiness, along with that strength. As well. And the third one is a big massive one. It's about being adaptive and wise. And that's the idea of being flexible, adaptable. That could be emotionally, mentally, but learning all those tools and tricks about how to get through basically any environment imaginable and being able to have the wisdom to know which one to pick, when to reach out for backup, things of that nature, instead of just doing that, but building that wisdom that comes with it. And the last one, which is the fourth one, which is Quietly Powerful, speaks a lot about how you carry yourself, and that leads into leadership. It also leads into self-leadership, how you lead yourself and talk to who you are. And that one becomes quite in-depth. But those are basically kind of the four pillars in a roundabout way.

Okay, well, I love that. And I, I was going to ask, like, I assumed that the word rhino was, like, based on the animal, but then I was like, what if I'm wrong about that? So I think that's— I think I love that too, because there's imagery, right? Which is, again, and also kind of a, um, it's that what you— it's different than what you expect, or you have preconceived ideas about the animal, right? You were saying that people think they're this, they think they're that, but they're actually not. Um, okay, those are fantastic. You actually— you, you used a phrase that, um, I obviously am quite familiar with, but I don't think has fully been kind of accepted more broadly, especially in rural communities. And it's the concept of a regulated nervous system.

Mm-hmm.

Okay. I want, I want you to expound on that a little bit because one of the things that's cool about that is it takes it, I think it takes this conversation out of that other and kind of separate conversation of mental health. And it reminds all of us that it's a bodily system. Right? It is a physical bodily system, your nervous system.

Absolutely.

And that's— and I think, I think that kind of language can sometimes help people. I don't know, I don't know if I— honestly, it's hard for me because I don't— I am so open and accepting of mental health support because I just, I know what it's done for me. I know what it's done for my relationships. Um, so I don't know if it's that people feel broken I, you know, like, what do you think drives that? Because, so that's, I want kind of both of those things. Again, I'm always giving you two, but it's like, what do you think is it that makes it so hard for people to actually raise their hand and say, I'm struggling? And then how do you think the discussion about a nervous system can maybe assist with that? Because it reminds everybody that it's just something going on inside your body, just like your cardiovascular system.

Yeah, no, I love it. Yes, keep with the two questions as long as I get them answered and remember.

I'll remind you on these two for sure. So yeah, yeah.

Um, no, I think that some of those barriers of kind of reaching out— we talk about stigma as being a big one, and underlying some of that is we start to tie kind of our identity to being strong. And when something goes wrong, we feel like we've personally failed. And I've had first responders that I work a lot with, or people that are in— work out at a prison facility, whatnot— that they really struggle with some of these things because if their superiors find out, they worry that, "Oh my gosh, are they going to lay me off? Are they going to— it might affect my job performance." And I try to tell them, like, in my mind, it's, man, you twist your ankle, you're probably going to limp. That would be— people would look at you like, "Oh, you're normal." But when they look at anything you're struggling with, they go, "Oh, that's abnormal." And I think it's a lot of just how we've ingrained the differences between mental health and other medical things. So there's a number of things that get in the way with reaching out for help. And some of it is just being strong and not wanting to burden anybody else, stuff like that, that kind of gets in the way. But to the other part of your question, you look at, which is what I love to do, and it helps to work how my mind works, is finding a language that people understand. Because what people are dealing with, it's It's biology. That's what I, that's what I tell people. Like, you know, you have a nervous system in you that is like an accelerator, like on a car, and you don't have to do anything to push on the gas. Like, you have a difficult conversation with someone, pretty soon your heart rate starts going up, your breathing changes. You know, if you've ever approached somebody that you're a little nervous to approach, you get up there and you can't think of what to say. Yeah, you just got emotionally hijacked right there from your brain. And it's that accelerator runs. And but we do have a brake as well, which is the other nervous system. But that's where I mean, I can get into the terms, but I really don't care about the terms a lot of times, as long as people understand. But it's like a brake, and you can use that through breathing. The way you breathe, as long as your exhale is longer than your inhale, you'll start activating that other nervous system to slow things down. You know, especially like if you're in a very difficult situation where, you know, you need to like almost like a trauma situation where it's not good, you want to survive. If you don't understand how to take those deep breaths and keep the blood flow to the front part of the brain so that you can think, get your way out, your brain will just take over and you'll start panicking and, you know, things like that. So learning those kind of deals and learning how to use your brake. And I always tell people too, just when you use your brake, it doesn't suddenly quit because many people will say that, like, I tried that, didn't work. And I'm like, man, so I tell them, like, if your room's 100 degrees and then you turn on the AC, it doesn't immediately get cool. And that doesn't mean the AC is not working. It just takes time, you know. And so sometimes it's just to take that. But that's part of that calm and steady because you may not feel calm in those moments. But if you can kind of keep it in that sweet spot, because you need a right amount of anxiety to deal with stuff.

Totally.

Is the idea.

Like when, when, when this kind of external stimulus happens, I mean, and so correct me if I'm wrong on this, please. But we're literally talking about that internal response of either fight, flight, fawn, or freeze. Right, are the typical reactions that happen when we get flooded. And, and I think the thing that's interesting is that when, when you start to— like, I think when you start to break it down this way, first of all, you recognize that that happens inside of everybody unless there's some actual, you know, um, what— I don't know, you know, maybe chemical imbalance, maybe like physical thing where, you know, like, pending, barring those things happening, this happens to every single person. And a lot of times, I think what's also been fascinating, what we don't always realize, is that our knee-jerk route, whether it's fight, flight, fight, flight, fight, fawn, or freeze, um, a lot of times what becomes our natural choice is because of how we were taught to do it, right? What we were conditioned to do to either keep relationships or not lose love or not lose connection, those kinds of things. Um, and that doesn't mean it's actually helpful. It doesn't mean it's actually doing what we think it'll, you know, should do. And we're obviously, most of the times, we're not overly conscientious. We're not even conscious of the fact that like our body is immediately taking a route Um, and so I, I don't know how much of your work feels like kind of, do you go back to people with like, to their childhoods with people and talk about when did you, you know, when did you first start kind of taking this route every single time when conflict comes up? I mean, is that part of what you have to do?

You know, there, there are moments when that applies and you can. I know, I know some other therapists, that's always the thing. You got to go back to the childhood. Yeah.

Um, and it's not always the right thing to to do, I'm sure.

No. And, and so on, on mine, I, I usually, if it's applied, if it's, if it is meant for that moment, yeah, to kind of help them discover. But a lot of times what I get at is, is that it's all neuroscience, and your brain can change at any age, you know, with neuroplasticity. And so what's, what goes on is we train our brains to respond. And so typically What goes on is I always say our brains are kind of like AI. You know, it's whatever you think about, you know, you're telling your brain, I want to think more about that. Look for ways for me to think more like that. And then it's like, hey, I behaved this way and it worked. Okay, I want to do that more often because our brains really don't care if we're happy or if we're successful. It only cares if we're safe and comfortable. And so a lot of those things you talk about that sometimes we've learned from a young age, it's just protective measures we've used. You know, when that nervous system is gone, how do we keep ourselves safe? And so people have these patterns that they may not be aware of. And some people, the pattern they had worked for them at some point, like, you know, whatever they, whatever they had to deal with, it worked. But when you're not in that, it's no longer functional anymore.. And so to me, what I love about like Adaptive and Wise in that area of the pillar is learning what your typical responses are, but also knowing that awareness of when the brain takes over so that we have more than one. Because like you said, the knee-jerk reaction sometimes might not be the best response, you know, and it's amazing how you don't know when it takes over. It feels very real.

Yes, of course.

Until you step out of it, then you're like, oh my gosh, it got me again. But those are the things that I like to work with people is a lot of it is how do I help you be more flexible and adaptable? How do I— I don't want to change who you are. I just want to give you more tools and options so that this doesn't have to become a problem. In other words, you're bringing a hammer to every problem every time. Let's learn some other options that go on. And I know I did a lot of— over the years, I did a lot of mental toughness training programs that were former Navy SEALs put on. And one of the things we had to do was cold water training. And that meant ice baths for how long and cold showers for how many days and very unpleasant. But the point of it wasn't like, wow, we did this, look at us. It was the fact that when you turn off the hot water and it's just cold and you're about to enter your brain is already looking for a way out. You start hearing like, this is crazy. What am I going to do? This would be cold. I don't need to do this. But telling the brain that no, and having that why and the purpose, and you go in and you do it. And then when it hits you, now you're dealing with your body. Like it's, you know, it takes your breath away. It's cold. You might be shaking and your brain is still like, let's just get out of here.. And learning how to calm the body, stay focused while you're doing that, um, was a lot of what was being taught in there. But I think that kind of gets to what you're talking about.

Yeah. Yeah. I think it was so interesting, right? Because I think, like, we— you, you said it— our brains are wired to keep us both safe and comfortable. The comfortable thing is something we, we have to, like, really understand. So all of us have different spectrums of what we find discomforting to comfortable, right? So I think one of the biggest gifts we can give ourselves is to learn how to be uncomfortable and still stay calm and steady, right? Because that's true. You— those— both of those things can and will inevitably be true because the goal of, you know, mental health, uh, therapeutic practices, whether it's like talk therapy or EMDR, there's so many modalities, right, that people can that people can try. The goal isn't to make it so that you're never uncomfortable again, or that you never experience hard times, difficult feelings, difficult situations. Like, that's, that's not— that can't be the goal because we're not in control of all of that external stimulus.

Correct.

We can choose which rooms we want to be in, right? We can choose which relationships we want to be in. We can choose some of those things to a point. But none of us are in control of designing a world where we're free from conflict and free from pain and free from hardship. And so this need to normalize it and, like, I say normalize it, but just make, basically make it like it is par for the human existence. That's, I still just think that that conversation, it can't happen enough. And I think culturally too, like, you're from this area. Agriculture as a— that happens to be our primary economic driver, right, where I live. That has an entire generational culture of stuffing down pain. At least that's going to be my anecdotal perspective, and you maybe feel differently, but I think there's just a lot in the way, like picking yourself up by your bootstraps was actually necessary. Like you said, we don't We don't want to say that you don't have to be strong because that's required. It's required to survive. And if you go back several generations, you think about pioneers, you think about like what first farmers had to do where, where we live. Yeah, they had to be, they had to be strong. They have to be tough. But we now live in a time where you can be those things and you can struggle and it doesn't— they're not mutually exclusive things. Right? So I think that's the other thing with rural communities. I think there's generational, I'm not going to even call it trauma necessarily, but it's conditioning and patterning around how we cope. That can, we can stand to revisit it maybe would be the way I would say it because it's not to demonize it, right? Or to criticize it.

Yeah, no, I think you, you bring up a great point because when we look at you can be both strong and struggling at the same time. And I know one of the number one reasons you can tell when you're dealing with like a problem trying to get at you is it gets you to think black and white, either or. And so people get into this, either I'm strong or I'm struggling, and if I'm struggling, that means I'm weak. And you can be both. That's the idea. Instead, you know, they're helping people understand that that can be happening. And that's what's, you know, magic for a lot of that. But I love what you said about the uncomfortable thing because it is, I think culturally at large, there's a lot of things about making everybody comfortable in this, and that's great, but I don't think anyone really builds resilience. You know, you, you know, the only time you really can make a big change in your life and really, you know, uh, train your brain is when you're going through some challenges.

For sure.

You know, it's, it's those uncomfortable times, but being able to be comfortably Uncomfortable is what people are after. And I know I've worked with people where they live uncomfortability all the time. Like, that's completely different. That will break you down and wear you down. But what I'm talking about is, for a lot of us over time, and I think even for people that are business owners or whoever, it's the same thing. We can get in our routines and we keep doing things that we're comfortable with. But how is that advancing? Who we are, but learning to put yourself in an uncomfortable situation and then practicing those abilities to remain calm and steady and stay focused on what you do. Um, that was a lot of the cold water training kind of things, and I think it's valuable for people. But I love that either/or, and I think on a podcast, because I know I outlined all 4 pillars in depth, um, on them that are out there available people, they want, they can check.

We will absolutely link to those.

Yeah. And I think in there I talked about some of those things, the either-or type thinking when you can see some of that. But I always make sure that I end up with giving people applied actual steps and not just bringing out the awareness as well.

Yeah, that's great.

But no, what you're talking about is right on. Yeah.

I think being able to embrace nuance is one of the hardest things to learn. Like, especially, especially if you are an analytical person and you already have like a— like, I don't, I don't have black and white thinking. It's just not like I'm— everything is gray to me, and I love the nuance. I thrive in the nuance, actually. Um, so it's these— some of these things are very hard for people that might have more of a predilection to being like, it's this or it's that, right? But I think, you know, you've said it too, this is like a muscle. Like, once you Once you, and you might have to try a number of different practices, like before you find the thing that really works for you and helps you kind of either calm or, you know, regain some kind of control if you're feeling like you're panicking or, you know, again, it's a bunch of different scenarios that we've talked about so far. Right. But it, I just, I get frustrated when I still feel like the conversation is like, As if this can't be something that you can actively improve in your life. Like, people have honestly a lot of control in a lot of situations. Now, you just talked about one. I never want to be flippant about the fact that there are, there are people, there are communities, there are groups of people for sure, um, that are living in present conditions that make what we're talking about damn near impossible. I, I do understand that, but we're talking about kind of barring those things being true, like there's a lot we each can individually do. And so let me ask that. I want to ask this question: what are, what are like your top 3 things? And again, everybody will, will direct into your podcast episodes where you talk about these things more, but what do you— what have you found in working with people to be kind of the top 3 things that if they could learn how to do would help them regain some of this, the control when they're conflict, uh, in conflict?

Yeah, no, I like the questions. It's— and for me, like, there are so many ways, and then I get so specific and, okay, what's really going on right now? That'll be a thing. But I know the biggest part for a lot of people, I always tell them, your first piece is awareness. Like, you have to get awareness of what's going on within you how, what are your reactions? What are you typically thinking? You know, what starts to run through your head, especially in those situations where you start to feel that uncomfortability in that moment, like your mind starts to kind of go different places. You know, learning those gives you a good tool of recognizing how it's starting to kind of hijack you into a different response than you want to do. So awareness is always the first piece whenever you make different things. And I think a lot of people is the recovery piece is what I'm after. I do a lot of that where it's how to slow that mind, you know, how to slow down the body and be able to, you know, maintain that sense of calm. And that's a lot through breathing. And there's many different breathing practices that people can engage in. But what I tell people is, is it has to be like a practice. You can't just— you get in that moment, it's hard to think, oh yeah, what did he say again about what I was supposed to do? It's hard to think. And so you always reduce to your level of training when things happen. And so there's times where throughout the day, it's just making sure you're stepping back, taking some deep breaths, maybe focusing on some things that bring you joy, you know, doing something, just take a couple minutes to reset, bring that nervous system down because we only have so much capacity. You know, capacity is a term that can be defined technically, but for me, it's just basically how much can your cup be filled before it overflows. And throughout the day, it just gets filled up. And sometimes before we even started the day, it's already been filled up. But exactly, it's reducing it throughout the day. So a lot of things that I recommend for people is it's not about changing who you are, it's just changing how you go at the day, you know, instead of just hit accelerator and run through and grind until the end of the day. And then if you can rest, great. But, you know, I know my kids are all grown out of the house now, so there's moments I can relax. But before, that wouldn't happen. Like, you're you just redo. But finding it throughout the day, a few times throughout the day, when you can just be mindful, you know, put your feet on the ground, notice that you're sitting. You know, if people notice the chair that you're sitting on, do you notice your feet touching the ground? If you're walking, do you notice every step? Sometimes looking at a tree and just kind of moving side to side with the tree. I mean, unless it's like really windy, but on a nicer day. But being always windy up here, Chris, you know, same thing out here in the northeast corner of Colorado. Everybody always thinks mountains, you know, but out here it's all, all ag. It's all just plains.

So yeah, you're at least not too different from where you were raised. But I, so I, the one thing I just want to say that I think is so fascinating, um, is these things sound so simple, but they're actually things that most of us aren't doing. I mean, truly, I— there have been times where, like, if I'm feeling really stressed, I will stop and say to myself, like, I'm not breathing. Like, I will hold my breath. I will notice that I'm holding my breath.

There you go.

And so it's super interesting because obviously we're always breathing because we're living. But that ability to, like, truly just slow down and like you said, and I love that you said that in stress we, we, we get to the— we reduce to the, um, like our level of training. Such a great reminder because it's like you, you have to, you have to do these things enough, work those muscles enough so that when your body needs them, they respond. Like, that's, I mean, that's basically what you're saying. So the, the deep breathing thing is super easy because you can do it absolutely anywhere and you always have it with you, you know. Like, it's one of the most accessible things that we can teach ourselves. And the other thing with like, do you feel your feet on the ground? Are you feeling the wind? I also think, um, just maybe if you go for a walk, do it without earbuds in. Like, walk around, walk around the block and just let your— because I just think we're so inundated, right, with— we're taking in a lot of information. There's a lot of stimulus, more than there's ever been. And I think, I think there's lots of reasons why that might be kind of exacerbating some of our challenges, like There's so much we could talk about that, um, where, you know, back a few generations ago where you weren't always distracting yourself with either something you're watching or something you're listening to, you know, you didn't have a phone in your hand. I think we maybe could access these things a little easier. And now you have to be really diligent about it. You know, you have to like make a strong choice. If I'm, if I want to actually take in nature, you have to intentionally unplug.

Yeah, it's different in the modern world today.

Yeah, so different. It's so different. And so, but I think these reminders just serve— they're good reminders. And for all— for those of us in rural places, small communities, we're actually close to nature. That's, you know, that's one of the beauties of being out here. And so, um, those are— those were fantastic. Those are fantastic tips. And I think, again, just reminding people that you actually have a lot of what you need inside of you, and it's just Remind— reminding yourself how to use it, um, why to use it, why to slow down and breathe, you know, because people might be like, why do I have to do that? Obviously I'm breathing. But like you said, will you access that as a tool if you're not training your body to do it?

Yeah, because I find myself— because there's certain phrases that I'll use that I train my brain to have, and what's remarkable is in those moments it's there. And so Can you give me an example? Yeah.

I mean, I'll, what's one of your go-to phrases? Because I love, I love, technically I call, like, I call 'em mantras. I don't know if that's the right word. Right. But just things, you know, affirmations, mantras that you repeat to yourself.

Yeah. There's a couple of 'em that go quite a bit, like control the controllables. Actually, I'll say control the controllables, Chris, but also slow is smooth, smooth is fast.

Oh, okay.

And so with, with that one, a lot is because people get rushed when they're doing something. And they get sped up. That's the idea, get sped up. Once you start getting sped up, you need to make sure you control that. Otherwise you're gonna make mistakes.

Yeah.

And so the idea is reminding yourself that slow is smooth and smooth is fast. Then you're just very hyper-focusing on what you're doing. You might be maybe a nanosecond or something slower, but you're not gonna make the mistakes. So I do that even when it's a simple thing, like, okay, I've got a bunch of things on my list to do today. Oh my gosh, here we go. And I'm like, all right, slow is smooth, smooth is fast, Chris. I'll just do it at a lower level before it even gets to a bigger, more stressful environment. And I find that when that time comes, it comes to me. And then like control the controllables is we tend to quickly get on trying to control the environment around us, right? Things we can't control, especially like in rural areas, especially with ag and that you— they operate in a world where it's basically uncontrollable. You know, and so control the controllables. All you can control is yourself and your attitude, you know, that's your response and your attitude. So during those times, I try to get myself, you know, control the controllables. What are your options? You know, what are your options? And that helps direct my brain through those questions to look at options for me. Now, your brain's going to come up with stuff. It's like Google, and whatever you ask it, like, you could ask it, why am I stupid? And it's not going to tell you whether you are or not. It's going to give you reasons where you could potential. Yes.

Yeah, right.

And so the idea is— yes. And so the idea is when you say like, what are my options, you want to start looking for those options about how am I going to respond, you know, how am I going to deal with these. Um, another one I use is, how's that working out for you, Chris? That's a reminder to like stop doing what you're doing. Apparently it's not working.

Yeah, right.

Yeah, I remember a time I was putting some flooring in in the house and everything went great. It's just Chris cannot do art very good. So doing these cuts to get around certain things wasn't working. I was getting so frustrated, getting so built up. Pretty soon I was about ready just to smash things down and I stopped and I'm like, how's that working out for you, Chris? Maybe you need to take a break because if you're more frustrated, it's not gonna work. Yeah. Yeah. So I'll use just different things that kind of come through.

Yeah, I think, I think that's great. And so, um, as we kind of wrap up our conversation here, um, I wanted to ask if you see a difference in gender in your practice in small communities, and if that's just stereotypical or if it's, if it's, if there's some truth to it.

Yeah, I mean, there definitely is some truth to it, you know, difference between men and women that are there, no doubt. And I think a lot of that comes by socialization. And I know out here in rural areas, I think women get that idea of being more feelers. And so it's a little more open that they talk about things, whereas men were supposed to be closed off and stoic, which to me, that is not being strong. I think there should be a blend between the two, but it really comes to the individual. Almost how they've been kind of socialized as well, because not everybody fits that typical mold a lot of times.

So, right, right. And I think that's the whole thing is just, um, you know, on our show we try to highlight conversations that can help anybody that might be listening to it, kind of, you know, sometimes they're more pointed towards certain groups of people, whether they're like business owners or community leaders or what have you, but this conversation and the importance and value of of taking care of your body holistically, which includes your mental and emotional health, um, I just can't imagine a time where we won't continue to talk about it, right? Because it's, it's, it's awesome that you, um, you recognized within yourself and within your practice a way to extend what you're doing in sessions with people outside of that so more people can access it. I love that you're, you're recording podcasts. That's so great. Um, we will make sure to, to give access to all of what you've done so far, um, in the show notes to our guests. But I just want to— I want to thank you for reaching out. Um, like I said, this is Mental Health Awareness Month, um, and everybody's got mental health. Like, mental health is something we all have, so it's just a matter of if we're taking good care of it and stewarding it well or if we're not. And you've given us some awesome ways to think about it. And I think practical tools too, like you said, it's not just know this is a thing, but also try some things, try some of the things that were discussed here. And, um, and by all means, if you're listening to this and you're still really, really struggling, please, please just reach out. Reach out. There are— we'll put all of the national kind of hotlines and numbers. We'll put all of that in our show notes for this episode code as well. Um, but there are people out here that will listen, that will help you. Um, you do not have to struggle by yourself. Is there anything else you would want to leave our guests with as we, as we wrap, Chris?

Yeah, I like when it is to tell people to reach out. And I think when reaching out doesn't necessarily mean that you have to go to a therapy office, you know, reaching out is a lot about talking to a spouse, family member, friend, pastor, mentor, whoever that might be. Because one of the things the problem always does to us is try to isolate us, get us to, to believe that we're the only ones. And so connection is what's massive. And so just reaching out and connecting, and you don't have to tell people your whole story. You know, it just sometimes, sometimes you might have to come out and just kind of say, hey, yeah, I've been really struggling with this lately. You know, something like that. Other times, it's just being around people can be a valuable tool with that. But a lot of things I like to tell people is, is you're not broken. You know, you're not going crazy. It's what we talked about. It's just biology. I mean, I do joke sometimes depending on the person in my office because they'll say like, I think I'm going crazy. And I'm like, well, you are in a therapy office.

Yeah.

And then we get a laugh out of that. But I mean, it depends on the person. But the truth is, is no, you're not broken. You're not this, you're not weak. You're going through something that you've been carrying too much weight for too long. And learning how to carry it differently is what we need, especially if we want to build better communities, is we have to talk about this differently, you know, is the biggest thing. Yeah.

I think capacity is a great way to think about it, right? Like, we can only succeed as a community if we have capacity, and if each individual person in our community is, um, being asked to, like, to eat from a platter when their capacity is a saucer, or, you know, like a like a salad plate, right? We have a, we have a capacity problem. And I think it's important, like, how are you, how are you actually filling that back up? You know, what are you, what are you doing to— and it's, that's it, that's at the individual level. But then we, we see it at the macro level of a community too. So I think the other, the other aspect is like, if you're struggling, reach out. But I would also just remind everybody to check in on your people, you know, check in with each other. And it can even just be as simple like, hey, you were on my mind, Hey, wondering how you're doing. Would love to hear from you. Just let people know that they matter to you because that's something that, again, like you said, our problems try to isolate us. And you never know when that message that you're sending to someone you love might be exactly what they need to be reminded that they're not alone. Right?

I got a great story around that. It's a true story. I had a guy years ago who came into my office.. And he told me this story that, um, he felt invisible. Nobody cared. He was gonna look to end his life. And he decided, I'm just gonna go in this grocery store. And if no one acknowledges me, then that's it. You know, I'm truly invisible. And he said that he went down some aisle. I don't know which aisle it was, but anyways, there was just this lady who had a little kid in the, in her cart and just walked by and all she did was smile. And nod to him. That was it. And she had no idea that she probably held this man's life in her hands. But that changed everything for him, where then he sought help and came. So I always tell people, like, if you start noticing people being a little bit different than this, have that courage just to reach out and ask, how are you doing? And we do it all like, how you doing? Good. Like, no, no, no. How are you really doing?

Right? You know, that's a beautiful— that is a beautiful story. And it's something that, like, resonates so much for me because I run into all sorts to people at the grocery store. It would be a, it's a great place. But I think I also just wanna issue the reminder to everybody listening to this that like, we actually have that power. So instead of like, I think the slow is smooth thing is really interesting. We all could take, to take this as a reminder to slow down. We're coming up into the summer months, right? Slow down, take the earbuds outta your ears when you're walking, look up, and look people in the eye, greet them, say hello, say good morning, say good afternoon, say, hey, great to see you. Like, that's— I mean, that's the thing that we, we are supposed to have a leg up on our urban, our urban friends, right? Because we're connected and we're tight. So this is, I guess, the, the reminder to behave that way, um, because it's— we need to reverse that trend. The idea that we would have a suicide rate in rural communities either 2.5 to 3.5 times more than our urban counterparts. We have it within us. We have the ability to reverse it. Absolutely. And it's all about connection, right? It's all about human-to-human contact, looking out for each other. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you so much for the work that you're doing. And, you know, thank you for reaching out to me so we could have this conversation. It's just a great way to end the first half of the This day. season. So appreciate you having, being here, Chris.

Well, I appreciate being on too. And any chance we get a chance to talk about these things and spread that out, that's kind of my mission. And so I really appreciate the opportunity to come on here and share a lot of these things. And hopefully I always do this, like, as long as we reach one person, you know, I do a lot of speaking, I do a lot of speaking events at different places. And if I can just reach one person in the audience, that's what matters. So So if there's somebody out there that maybe resonated with somebody, you know, share this episode with them. Or, you know, even if it's for yourself, who knows, but just share this with other people because you never know the difference that you can make in the lives of somebody else. Yeah, for sure.

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