S6:E5 - How Lack of Accessible Transportation is Impacting Aging in Place in Rural Communities with Nicole Jones

You are listening to the Growing Small Towns Show, a podcast dedicated to supporting you, the person who really cares about the future of your small town. We believe when people get better, everything gets better, and our episodes offer the ideas and actions that prioritize people and small communities. Thank you for listening. We're so glad you're here. Our guest on today's episode is Nicole Jones. She is the founder of a company called Little Red Riding Hood Inc. And she joins us to share the kind of whole arc of the story of how this business came to be. Um, I will just share in, in this intro here that it is a company that provides transportation to the 55+ community in rural communities. So think all of the things that a person without a vehicle in rural places can't access. And this app and AI dispatcher kind of system combination technology that Nicole will tell you all about in the episode, that's what it aims to solve. And I will tell you that Nicole reached out to me. She found our podcast kind of Googling where she should be showing up and who she should be talking to. I, you'll hear it when I get towards the end of this episode or conversation with Nicole that I, you know, I, when I, when we make a choice about how to bring people on, who we should bring on, there have been people that we featured on this show that their businesses have since closed or, you know, they've moved, they've since moved on from that business. And that doesn't mean that they still shouldn't have had the time and space that they had to tell us their story in the first place. I hope that this hits your soul the way that it hit mine. I just think what Nicole, like the way she shares how this came to her, kind of her background with working with senior, the senior population, it's just to me like such a great example of what every single one of us could do if we just decide to, right? Like if you see a problem, you see a need and you decide that, hey, I'm gonna step up. Like doesn't seem anybody else is doing anything, I wanna help make this thing happen. I think she has bitten off an incredible challenge, and she's actively trying to find the right partners, contacts, and connections to get this thing completely off the ground. So as you listen to this, I simply encourage you, if you have any connections for her to get this service, to get this product, to get this company into your community, She is willing to listen. Um, so I think this, this talks about kind of entrepreneurial, the entrepreneurial spirit, uh, in its rawest kind of, most raw would be the better words, most raw form. Um, it's honest, it's sincere, it's heartfelt. Uh, I hope you enjoy this conversation, um, with Nicole as much as I enjoyed having it. Um, we need more helpers. Mr. Rogers was the one that said, look for the helpers. You're about to hear from a person who epitomizes it. Enjoy this conversation. Hey Nicole, welcome to the Growing Small Town Show.

Hi, thank you so much. I'm so honored.

Oh my goodness. Are you kidding? Uh, I think the honor is all mine here. I am super stoked to visit with you.

Well, listen, I am too. I have applied to 50 podcasts to talk about this issue in my company, and you're the first person, so I am like beyond excited.

Oh, Oh, well listen, you've created something that, uh, is such a gap for so many of the people that'll be listening to this. It certainly is a gap in our communities. Um, and you know, this show, we talk a lot about the recruitment, kind of the returning youth, right? We need, we need to be thinking, you know, we're always talking about like, how do we get young people to come back and how do we get young people to start businesses? And that will always be a drum that I will beat. And not or, but and, I desperately want our aging population, our residents that built this community, our communities, our residents that have been here for generations, if they want to stay in our towns, I really hope that all of us would honor them enough to figure out how. And so I don't ever want this show to be only about what comes next. But honoring those who came before us. And your business fills an enormous gap for that demographic of humans.

Thank you. Yes, it, it does. And also it, it affects the economy. I don't think, oh, well, yes.

So a hundred percent. So let's come back to that. Yeah. Let's clue the folks in so we can start wherever you wanna start. Like you said, you have a bit of an origin story. We love a good origin story on the show. So if that's where it makes sense to start, that's cool.

Well, first of all, uh, yeah, sorry.

You're good. You're good.

Uh, um, so first, uh, uh, so my company is called Little Red Riding Hood Inc. It is a transportation network company for those 55 and older for rural areas or like lessly dense populated areas only. And the story, I've never had a chance to tell like the whole story of what led me here. So this is a, this is like, first time I'm ever getting to tell it, so thank you. So this actually like all started way back when I was like 29. I'm 35 now, and I had to have an emergency hysterectomy, and then all of a sudden all my reproductive organs started failing and they couldn't figure out why. And I was so depressed. Um, I had all these plans for my life. I wanted kids, I wanted to, uh, run for office. Like, I had all these dreams, and suddenly all these dreams were quickly being like just ripped away from me, and I was very, very depressed. Um, and then at 31, I had to have— I had one ovary left, and that was my last, like, holding on to this dream of having kids, running for office, right? Like, that was my goal. That has been my vision since I was like 6 years old. And they had to have— I had to have an emergency oophorectomy. Well, a week later, they— I I went back to the hospital not feeling well, and they told me that they had found an ovarian tumor in that ovary. And my surgeon at the time was like, Nicole, if you still had all your reproductive organs, you would be dead right now. And it was in that moment that I swear I heard like a voice in my head go, see, I told you, trust your path, relax, stop fighting so much. And so I did. I just stopped fighting a lot of stuff. Ended up getting injured at work. I was a for— I'm a former law enforcement officer, and I stopped fighting them on issues. They put me in a situation when I was recovering from the oophorectomy and the ovarian cancer that I ended up getting hurt, and I didn't fight it. So I was out of work, and I was recovering from ovarian cancer, and I was still kind of mentally struggling with the fact that all my dreams now feel like they're gone. They feel like they're gone. And something said, you need to go for a walk. It was just like one day when I would have— should have been at work, right? Um, and I said, okay, I'm gonna go for a walk. Someone told me to go for a walk. Well, this is where this leads to Little Red Riding Hood Inc. When I was going for a walk, I found a blind senior man wandering lost in the middle of the road. People were just zooming by him, beeping their horn, and he was just terrified. I ripped him out of the road, um, and he is just absolutely and just, uh, he's just distraught. And he's like, they dropped me off in the wrong place, I don't know where I am. I took him home, I took him home, and I couldn't stop thinking about him. And it was all because of a transit issue that they had changed due to a closing of something. I think it was like a road at the time. Um, they completely changed the route, and since he was blind, he did not know. Um, and I started doing research. I remember I stayed up for almost 24 hours just reading And I was like, oh my gosh, this is, this is bad. Like, this is not only causing seniors to like die young, extreme loneliness, hunger, lack of housing. This is also an international issue and no one has tried to solve it. No one has really tried to really sit down and solve it. And it's 10 times worse for rural areas. So that's, that's the story of, of, of that.

Holy smokes. Okay, so I've got a bunch of things I want to say to you as I'm listening to you. The first thing I just want to note is I have a tendency to want to— like, I don't ever mean to talk over guests, but I get excited. That's kind of— I interrupt and I get excited. But I really like— thank you for sharing that whole background. And I first want to just speak to the feeling of your dreams kind of being like that rug of just being kind of pulled right out from under you. That is, that's a heartbreaking thing to experience. Um, and I'm really sorry, uh, for that, for you.

Um, thank you.

Yeah, it, it's just, that's just really, really hard. And I think sometimes people can find the reframe. I'm really glad that you did. I'm really glad that that kind of came over you, that voice, whatever, however that really felt inside of you. I'm glad that that came to you because it doesn't come to everybody. You know, sometimes, sometimes a course direction or course correction happens for people and it's really hard to accept. Um, so that's really powerful.

Thank you. And that's why I wanted to tell it because I feel like especially us, us older adults, like people like in their thirties. When, man, you're not hitting that vision that you've had forever. It really, it really messes with you, and it can cause a lot of emotional issues. And I wanted people to hear this story that, like, all this bad— it sounds like all this bad things, right? But if they had never happened, one, I would likely be dead because of the ovarian cancer, which, um, that's wild in and of itself. I'm the first person in my family on both sides to ever have cancer. I don't carry the gene at all. It was a very rare thing.

It's your screenings done, people. I guess we'll make that little PSA, right?

I mean, especially women. Ladies, if you do not feel like something is right, you need to see a doctor and you, um, need to hold them accountable. Please, please.

I—

the chances of what I had was very, very slim, and if it hadn't been for one doctor listening to me, I wouldn't be here right now. Yeah, please, please stay on it. Um, but I also just trust your path, right? Um, I, I believe in both destiny and choice, and if something's not going right your way, like it feels like there's a genuine wall, don't get upset about it. Try to, you know, sit and think and figure it out. But I wanted people to hear that story that, like, if none of those things had happened to me, from losing my reproductive organs to the ovarian cancer to getting injured at work Right. I'd have never found that man. Right. I'd have never found him. I'd have never led him down this path.

Well, and as much as it's transformed your life, I mean, what might have happened to him? I mean, for real, like, how terrifying. I just— my heart, like, just leapt into my throat when you were talking about the idea that he was in the middle of a street and he can't see anything and he has no— like, complete disorientation. Like, he has no idea where he's at. He has no idea where he's even supposed to go from there.

I saw the chips up.

Yeah, stand in the middle of the street and like scream for help.

That's not what it was.

That's that kind of what he was doing.

Oh, and people were just, man, beeping their horn and driving past him. And I should clarify, at the time I was living in Pittsburgh, um, at the time. And so different— that, I think that would have been a very different story in a rural area, as someone that grew up and was raised in a rural area. But, um, right.

If— I mean, I, I would like to think that if any of us in my community saw a person standing in the middle of the street, you know, that we wouldn't just zoom past them. But that's also just, again, like a call to better humanity. Like, how about we be— how about we be better than that, right? That's awful. Okay, so you, you find this man, you drive him to his house, you save him from that situation anyway, right? Um, and then you go on this like feverish hunt for information about like almost kind of like a how did this happen to this guy and what's actually going on here. And you discovered that there's this massive gap in transportation for 55 and older, 55+ residents, especially in rural places. So love that. Um, and again, I, I think I kind of shared with you that I really want to get the message of your company out to our audience. Our audience needs to hear what it is that you've Um, but they also need to hear about a real human in an environment scanning their landscape for things that aren't going right, and then possibly coming up with a solution to fix it. That's, that's what all of our communities need, you know? And it doesn't have to be that you turn it into a business, but like, that's right. So it's really special that you did that. I'm so, I'm thrilled that you're sharing it here. Okay. So you, you figure out like, oh my God, this is a global challenge and it doesn't appear that anybody is trying to fix this. So then what did you do?

Oh, then I started— I took all the collection of information that I had and started talking to seniors. I went back home to West Virginia. My mom works in a retirement home. I've grown up around seniors my whole life, my grandparents, everything. And I talked to them and I started realizing that it seems like it's like a combination of things that needs to be done, right? Like the transportation network company, which is a TNC, which most people know TNCs are like Uber and Lyft. Okay, that's where, right, you contracted drivers give rides through, uh, like some type of tech source. So I was like, okay, so it seems like it needs that, and then seniors need like someone to call, and if then there needs to be training. So it sounded like it was like a combination of a TNC and almost like, almost like a more of a caregiving company, right? That's And that's what I wanted to develop. So that's what I did. And I started doing research. I started talking to politicians. And then when I realized that this needs to be done in a rural area, I actually just packed up my stuff and I moved to a little town called Bigler, Pennsylvania. And I put all my focus in research and development from there. I have a chief technology officer, Levi Martin. He's also our VP now. He has been there since the beginning. I actually found him randomly at a Best Buy and I told him the story and he was like, I want to get involved. I love, I love this. Can I help? And he created all of our beta tech.

Like, yay Levi. Can we just shout out to Levi Martin? Like, I don't know the guy, but my goodness, like what a— again, I think the other thing you're doing, Nicole, is while you're laying the foundation for what you've done, this is, this is instructive to other people that have an idea and they don't know what to do next because it literally sounds like it was just a series of conversations. You know, go to your client, your perceived or potential prospective client, and ask them questions. You did all of that, which is is honestly just market research, but it's really grassroots, really face-to-face in person, right? The idea that you had specific, uh, skills that you knew you needed and you found him at a Best Buy— I mean, how rad is that? Like, that's really cool. So you'll have to be really— I think you had said it earlier, you didn't say it on the air, but like, you have to be willing to tell your story over and over and over and over and over again. Is that— has that not what it's felt like? Been what it's felt like?

It's also felt like, um, a thousand knocking on doors, um, and a lot of doors slamming in your face, and you have to be like, okay, next one, and not give up and believe in what you're doing. And for me, this is what gets me up in the morning. This— that I, um, what is it, Dolly Parton quote that I never, uh, I never felt like quitting? I never quit and I never felt like quitting. It was something like that. And I always remind myself, like, I don't really want to quit, no matter how frustrated I get, because I have a purpose now and I know how bad it is. And it even, it even got more like, okay, this I'm never going to give up on. When we started offering as part of our research and development, I gave over 400 free rides in a year.

In one year.

Yeah.

Can, can you tell like where, where did all of that happen? That's also market research, BTW. Like that's exactly what that is, right? In, in Bigler. So how big is Bigler?

Oh, Bigler is about— we have one traffic light and no police, no fire department. So there you go. That gives you an idea. But it's in Clearfield County, which is rural central Pennsylvania. So Clearfield County is a big county, but I focus on Bigler, Clearfield, Phillipsburg, all these little small towns. And I'll explain why that's important for like what we created within the company after the rides. Yeah, I gave, I gave over 400 free rides. In fact, one of the seniors, one of our first riders who is unfortunately no longer with us, her son told me after she passed, she go— he said, I just want to tell you thank you because of you giving her those rides, we were able to have her for almost 6 months, since 6 months longer than we probably would have had if you hadn't been here. And it's—

well, and I just, I have to just say it because like I can't, I, I, it's just, this is a mind-blowing idea to me. I, I think what's mind-blowing to me is that nobody's figured this out. Like, that's unbelievable. Same. Such a challenge. And so I just, I want to just highlight that you just shared a story of a woman that had a family that obviously loved her enough, right? So I just, that's really important because I think, I think it's not just that, oh, it's people that have no family, it's that Sometimes their families literally can't be as on. It depends on how far away they live. It depends on what their lifestyle allows, allows them to do. It's— and our, our older residents, our senior residents, what I mean, what if we kind of took the approach that they belong to all of us?

That's how I take it. Right.

I know.

I can tell. I can tell that. And I think that's what's really unique about what you've built. Like, it's Thank you. Yeah, it's because it's easy to just be like, well, how sad, they have a family, what does their family step up?

And it's like, I hate when people say that. That makes me generally mad.

Yeah, great.

The statistics alone are out there for you to Google. Um, for instance, the average person who like has an aging family member, do you know the average time a week it takes them to try to find transportation and care?

I have no idea.

Almost 32 hours a week.

Oh, there you go. Who, who has that extra to give? You know what I mean? And some, and some people may, and that's great if they do. That's— it's probably not most people's story.

Correct. And also, you know, you have to work, and FMLA will only protect you so far. My mother almost was fired from her job taking care of my grandmother because she had no one. There was really no one else to be there for her. Um, so FMLA will only protect you so far. So we— I, knowing all this and talking to also senior family members while giving the ride, it's why we've developed both an app and a website. So if you are at work, you could just pull it up online. It's like, like, even so, if you can't have your phone, not a problem. You have a computer, you can go on the website, log in, order the ride. You can track them, you'll know when they're being delivered, um, all of that. That's why we specifically created the website and the app was for senior family members, um, and also for like possible contracts. But predominantly the first thought of the app was mostly for the aging family members, like the, the families of the aging, of the aging family members. Sorry.

Yeah, no, you're good. Yeah, the support, basically the support people, the support network for the, the folks that need the, actually physically need the ride. Um, okay, so tell, tell me a little bit about, um, Well, maybe just about the technology. Like, how, how did you— I mean, obviously you found Levi Martin. Shout out to Levi Martin again. I'm just going to keep saying his first and last name like he's my friend.

I am. I'm thankful for him every day because he has stuck with it for years.

Yeah. So you guys get— you, you get a beta test. So in those, in those first 400 rides, Nicole, did you— were you testing technology or was that simply just literally to have the conversations, listen to what they were sharing, listen to their feedback. Like, at what point did you start, and at what point are you in the actual development and/or testing and market, market availability of the technology itself? Just tell us kind of today as we're talking, where is this thing at?

Yeah, as of today, everything has been developed— our app, website, and AI dispatcher, which, um, I can't wait to talk about that. We have everything fully market ready. We do not have the app out on the app stores. We do not have them out yet because we're still trying to raise funds in order to get off the ground and, you know, get contracts and stuff, which we're talking to several businesses about potential partnerships and contracts. But we don't have it out yet because when you Google transport— well, like, senior transportation, or we pop up almost all the time, and we didn't want people trying to use the app and leaving us bad reviews. I was like, that's gonna hurt us more. So just Just in case anyone's trying to figure it out, it's not out yet. Okay, but it's ready.

Yeah, right. Okay, so interesting question. I was just like thinking about this. Does anybody ever encourage you to go on Shark Tank? Did you ever think about it?

Yes, so I actually applied, uh, 2 years ago. We made it to the final rounds of auditions, which only 300, uh, companies even make it that far, and they told us no. And I haven't had really time to do it again. I currently work work, uh, 66 hours a week to continue funding this company and, um, my own bills because—

right, right, because you're a human with needs. Yeah, right, right.

And there's, there's an upkeep charge of all the tech that we do to keep it up and running for potential, um, like investor meetings or contract meetings. Like, we have to keep it up and running. Um, so yeah, I, I work all the time and I would love to do it again, but yeah, Shark Tank's been one of those that we've almost made it on. And I was like, oh, we're— every time we did, we're like so close, you know?

Right. Okay, so you said you really want to talk about your AI dispatch. Let's, let's get into it. Like, yes. Yeah, so, so what's— I have the privilege and the benefit of having seen a couple of demos, and I watched them all the way through. Um, by the way, you can decide how much of that you want to share in our show notes. We will link to whatever you send me to share with our audience, like on on the website that'll go up with this episode. So that's just something to know. Like, you can, you can share as much or as little as you want. I got to see this demo, right? Tell me why you love it, what you think makes— what makes it different, because it is different than Uber. Oh, 100% in a pretty significant way. But I want you to tell that story and why too, because the audience is not tech savvy. That would be a piece of it, necessarily. I shouldn't say they're necessarily not. But they're not as, as likely to be like, I'm just gonna quick schedule this thing through an app.

Not only that, and actually that's— so there was a study done in 2018 in California's University of Medicine where seniors were able to use the Lyft app free for 3 months. 80 and, uh, 89% learned to use the app, and when they did, they used it every day. Um, but the, the issue with rural areas isn't like the fact that they don't want a smartphone. It's, it's not convenient because there's no signal, there's no internet, right? And there's no—

there's not a Lyft network in rural areas.

There's— oh yeah, there's no competition, right?

So that's— I mean, that's a part of it, right? It's like, it's— yeah, I think rural folks maybe would use Lyft and Uber, but they don't, they don't support our areas. We're too far from urban centers, right?

And not to mention the prices are astronomical. But it— for us, when we were doing the 400 free rides, it was both testing tech and also asking questions. And the one thing they said that they wish they could do was, I wish I could call someone from my house phone that would do everything that an app can do. And I was like, well, we can, we can do that. And our goal is to always keep our rides affordable for seniors. Our mileage rates are set where there's no like extra add-on fees for like like order service ordering, like any— none of those like silly— like you're going to know how much you're going to spend from the moment you order the ride because our mileage sets is the same. It stays the same based off of— so the further out you go, the cheaper your mileage rate is. And so in order to be able to do that, we couldn't have— we couldn't hire people to work at home to answer calls. Plus, like, NEMTs already do that and they have long wait times, 30 minutes to an hour just to get through to someone. Right? So it doesn't work. And I was like, there has to be a way. And I was like, I talked to my— I talked to Levi about it. I said, what about an AI, like, dispatcher? Like, is there a way that someone could, like, call an AI dispatcher and do everything that the app can do? He goes, yeah, it's just connecting it to an interface. And I was like, we're gonna do that. That's what we're gonna do. It's gonna cost us next to nothing. And it does. It's very affordable, um, and it sounds very human, and she will respond to any of their needs. They could do it. So it does everything the app can do. They can upload funds because we don't— that was another thing. They didn't want their credit card saved on file.

I bet.

That's a big, it was a big deal. I said, not a problem. Not a problem. You can upload funds onto your account and the, there's no way for anyone to steal it because it's now fake money. Right?

Mm-hmm.

So they don't have to connect, upload funds. They're, um, they get updates from the AI dispatcher, like tracking all of order rides, everything that the app can do except for like the SOS. There's an SOS button on the app. Other than that, everything that the website and app can do, the AI dispatcher can do.

That's really cool. Thank you. That's really cool. And I think I, again, like this is, I, I find it surprising that you, you've had kind of like, I wouldn't say a hard time, maybe it's, it's probably a bit too of just like the, where do you show up? And so you, you had shared with me before we hit record that you recently went to a specific conference. If you're willing to share what that is, it makes a ton of sense to my brain.

I would, because I am very thankful for them. So it's actually called Age Tech Connect. Hi, Jeff. I'm so thankful for Jeff. He's the CEO and it's funded by—

Shout out to Jeff.

Jeff and them are great. I feel bad because I'm forgetting someone else's name. I apologize. But they are funded partially by AARP. And so they had an event called Age Tech Connect Summit. It was their first one and it was in Atlanta, Georgia. And they were like, you need to come down. If you come down and show that you like, you are working really hard on coming down here, we're going to introduce you to people. And I said, I'll be there. And, um, it cost me like a grand total between the tickets and everything else. I brought my technical director. Um, and that's what led me to finally getting some type of slight breakthrough, right? We have some met some interested investors. One really wanted to invest with us, but unfortunately due to their requirements of having to have been up for one year.

Okay, sure.

They can't invest yet. She's still trying to find us investors so they— so she can eventually invest. We met all these interested people that, um, we're now in talks to a potential partnership contract. One of them being Arlo, which I highly recommend looking into them. They're also a startup that just launched and it's an AI like assistant for seniors to help with like loneliness, epidemics, to try them to get out, medication reminders, stuff like that.

I am. So right now is a part of where, um, so again, like, you and I are talking, somebody is listening to this driving down probably an unpaved gravel road in rural America, right? Like, who knows where, where this is being heard right now. What do you, what are you, what do you need? How can we help you? How can our audience, you know, what kinds of connections do you need? Because once we get this episode is up and it's out and you're Contact information is there. I just— if there's somebody that's like, oh my God, she should talk to— like, who should we— who should we be looking for? Who do you want us to connect you to?

Well, anyone with money. Any rich people out there listening?

I will. Rich folks.

Yeah.

Sorry.

I like it, man.

Some angel investors might be willing to do it. It's just trying to get the—

well, you're a tech startup. You're a tech startup. I don't understand how this isn't sexy as all get out to somebody yet, you know what I mean? Because like, that's— you're— and you're solving such a real problem, Nicole.

But I think the issue is, especially for the extremely wealthy and the younger generation, they don't understand how big of an issue it is.

Yeah, they don't. It's not their issue yet, or yet, or maybe never will be, right?

Because they have— they have wealth, they have the money to like take care of it, um, whereas the majority of people do not. So that's kind of part of it. And I think the other thing is a lot of people are always scared to talk about aging, especially a business that's specifically around your consumer is older and they're like, well, they're going to just drop. I had one investor say, well, I don't see the purpose of this because, I mean, they're just going to die. And I'm like, so are you. So are you one day, sir. Yeah, I had one guy just flat out. That's what he's like. I don't see the purpose in this because they're just going to die one day. And I'm like, yeah, so are you. You don't get to live forever either.

But like, yeah, well, that's not your person. Holy crap. Like, that's not— I mean, that person, that a person that would say that doesn't have any regard for the wisdom of the generation that came before us. Like, that's awful.

That, and it's also ageist in the sense that you think they're just going to drop. The average, the senior, like, we start at 55+, so we're like, you're talking close to 20 years of a customer. Good Lord, right?

Yeah. A 55-year-old ideally isn't just dropping over dead, or a 60 or a 65-year-old, right?

Even the 70s now, right?

You are literally also talking about a technology that can sustain that longevity because it gets them to where they need to be.

Correct. We built this to be sustainable.

Right. It's one less giant problem or, you know, issue that they have to overcome to get the help and the care that they need. Yeah, whatever. That's annoying. I can't even imagine how you deal with that because very clearly, like, you— this sparked for you helping a man that you didn't know. He wasn't your grandpa. But he might have been somebody's.

Exactly. And the lack of empathy from the very— from some male investors that we have talked to, and I always say male because that's who we predominantly talk to, is insane. Like, you would be— you would be shocked. Like, I had one— one of them also told me they didn't see the purpose of investing in rural areas and rural areas weren't worth it. And I'm really upset. I grew up in a town called Elk Garden, West Virginia, population 100. I grew up in the mountain mountains. And who I am today is because of my years spent in that area. And that really— that probably— that, that really hit me hard, and I was very upset about that.

Well, as you can imagine, that kind of answer is not— like, that perspective has nowhere— it has no place in this world here.

Yes.

Like, this is— I mean, I, I can't even— I can't even imagine being— that's not even a privileged position. That's actually— it's a little dystopian. Like, it's—

yes. I— there's a, there's a lot of people that do not see rural areas worthy of any type of funding. And it's, it's that, that type of mindset is also why we have issues with getting like funding from government agencies as well, right? They always want to put their money where the most of the population is, right? And it's one of the reasons why we're seeing a decreased population in rural areas. Um, you know, I told you in the beginning, one of the things I did want to bring up was how like senior transportation in rural areas If we don't fix it within 10 years, you think the economy is bad now? No, you have no idea. We're looking at a total global economic crisis because of this one issue. Because right now in most rural areas, 30% of their adult population is already over 30%. So if 30% of your population can't get out to spend money and 70% of the United States is rural, Forget about, forget about the economy's gonna be 10 times worse in, in 10 years.

Well, and you know, it's, it is, it's interesting. So there's a couple things economically that I think you, you've got really good statistics, but there are some things that also are just anecdotally true. Um, it's that we often assume that, you know, the aging population, they might be on a fixed income, right? So there's this assumption that means they don't have money to spend, but that's actually not always true.

That's actually Go ahead.

Yeah, go ahead.

Actually, that's very much not true. In fact, the adult— older adult population has like some of the most spending money than like anyone else because they like their bills go down, things like that. But they actually have the most amount of time and money to spend than anyone else. They're also considered some of the biggest tippers. Right. There's a myth that they don't tip. That is a lie. It's so much of a lie. We had to put it in our driver policy. That you are not allowed to take large tips because they will, yeah, they will try to give you a $50 bill and you have to be like, no.

So, so the only reason I even mentioned that is just because, um, you, you addressed kind of, I think, the first, the first ring problem, which is if they can't get out of their house to spend their money, they can't spend their money. Um, but then I think, you know, take it even maybe second, third ring, it's It means that eventually your community becomes a place that they cannot stay in, and they end up, you know, moving to the closest city, like kind of more urban center.

And not just—

yeah, right, right, their families too.

You're never going to see small businesses again in rural areas. You're not. You're going to see entire towns shutting down all because of one issue, and that's It's insane to me to think that this revolves— so many issues revolve around one thing. For instance, uh, housing, accommodating affordable housing for, for seniors. It's because they— transportation, they can't get to it. There's not good transportation, they can't get to it. 50% of the homeless in the United States are 55 and older. That's insane. Oh, 2 out of 3 seniors goes to bed— goes to bed hungry at night because they can't get access to food. The average senior that lives not with, like, within their family, like with other family members that are not seniors, the average— they go an average of 2 weeks without seeing another human being. So that's why we have a high rate of anxiety, depression, and suicide among seniors now. And then healthcare, especially in rural areas, I think there's almost like a, almost a 10-year difference of of longevity living for rural seniors versus their urban counterparts, just because of the lack of access to healthcare. Like all of that, one issue, senior transportation, senior-focused transportation.

The Growing Small Towns show is recorded locally at the Growing Small Towns podcast studio located in Oakes, North Dakota. It's produced by Pheasant Canteen Studio in Aberdeen, South Dakota, with marketing support from Cassidy Johnston in Canyon City, Colorado. Our intro music was created and produced exclusively for Growing Small Towns by James Bergman, singer and songwriter from Fargo, North Dakota. Local and small, it's what we support and it's who we love. Get your community a shout out on the podcast. Call 701-203-3337 and share your small town success that you just don't feel is being celebrated quite enough and let us shout you out. You can also share your biggest people challenge and we'll dedicate an episode to offering ideas to help. Hell, you can basically tell us anything and we'll do what we can to answer. We can't wait to hear from you. We can't wait to hear from you.

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Yeah.

Insane.

Well, again, I think what's, what's nuts about it is as a, as a human, if so, like I'm not quite 55, right? So I'm in my mid-forties and the idea of like, so what would happen to my life if I was unable to leave my home? You know, and that's just it. You think about all the different things that you now cannot do besides the basics, like getting food, right? Getting food, getting, you know, access to healthcare. But it's every single thing, like you said, that gets you out of your home and engaging with other people, right? It's— yeah. And again, we talk a lot about rural isolation, loneliness.

Um, I heard the one podcast that you did with the lady that was trying to build community, and they did like the farmer's market and like 2 times more seniors than they were ever expecting showed up. And I was like, exactly, because they need it, right? It's not— it's a need. And we created this company, um, to make it as affordable as possible where we still make a profit in order to help expand quickly, but enough that where seniors can go out like at least twice a week and it still would be less than them owning a car by like, by like almost 50, 50 to 70%. Cheaper. So I want senior— like, I hear it a lot. I need to go to the doctor.

They—

I need someone to go to the doctor. I need to go to the grocery store. And I'm always like, but don't you want to do more? And they're always like, yeah, I'd love— I wish I could do more. But they're so used to not having access to, um, like, uh, accommodating and actually like on-time transportation that they're scared to, to go out about that. But that's what I want. I want seniors to be able to live and enjoy their golden years. That is my dream.

Yeah, it's supposed to be the quality of life era.

Like, you should be enjoying your— you have worked so hard, whether it's you had a job, a family, you have worked your whole life, and now you just sit at home. No, unacceptable. I do not like that. I tell everyone, I'll know my company is successful when I find out that two 70-year-old women crawled in the back of someone's car they had drank all like 3 margaritas at the local Applebee's and they are just giggling, having a time of their life. Boom, my company— I will know that I have done what I need to do for my company, right?

Right. I— so, okay, um, let me— as I'm thinking about, you know, other questions I want to be sure we get out and onto the table, um, is there any limit to where this company could be— could be implemented at this point in your in your development phase? Can you basically, because maybe I, I'm guessing, okay, like if I just imagine a skeptical human, like I am not a skeptical human, that's just not the way I move through the world. Does it bite me in the ass sometimes? Yes, it does, Nicole, but I, I feel you on that. This is who we are. It's fine. Yes. Um, so if I put on a skeptical person's hat and imagine like the questions they have, I imagine safety, security is is a challenge, right? Or something that comes up a lot. So just talk me through generally what that, you know, how you address that. I know you said that you have tracking.

So yeah, tracking. So I, I mentioned I'm a former LEO and when I first came up with this idea, the inmates I worked in as a correctional officer, the inmates used to tell me how easy it was to bypass Uber and Lyft's safety features. Gross.

You're terrifying me now.

I don't look into it. Don't look into it.

Um, we won't— we will not make this call out in the show notes.

Don't— you'll, you'll be like, I'm never riding an Uber again. Um, so I was like, wow, that's insane. So like, how do we prevent this? Um, so for— so what makes this very different with even hiring, so there's a thorough background check lo— not just like a federal, there's a local, state, uh, county. If you are a foreigner, international, um, you get checked for any type of like fraud. You get checked for obviously any type of sexual abuse claims or violations. And then you have to get a drug test, okay? Then there's an interview. You have to have an interview, and which we also then take a look at the car the car that you're going to have registered with us. Is it properly registered? Does everything work? Is it clean? Is it safe? Then we hire you and then you go 2 weeks of training. So our chief learning officer is Christy Jones, and that's— yes, that is my mother. My name's Nicole. That's my mom. But she has actually 25 years of training experience and working with seniors. She is the most qualified person and she has developed a 2-week training program virtually done that qualifies us technically as what would be non-medical caregivers for the drivers. Okay. They learn everything. We also send them assist items to help seniors get in and out of the vehicle. And here's the big one that everyone loves. We work— we have dual dash cameras with audio. Either the driver can have it and we send an SD card or we mail them one and they have to upload it once a week or their everything gets paused. So, yeah, we—

and the thing too is like, I, I guess as I listen to this, I think the most important thing too is that you're gonna continue to learn and you're gonna continue to upgrade and improve all of it, you know?

Oh yeah, it's—

that's just, that's how this works. So sorry. No, you're good. Yeah, go ahead.

We've even prepared for like right now, yeah, the dual dash cameras with audio and then uploading it. Totally fine because we're, we're hand— like, once we get to a point where we're very big, we know that's not going to be— it's not going to work very well. You know, we're going to have a lot of drivers that are just like, no, I'm not going to do it. And then we're going to have to spend all this money on rehiring. So right now we're currently working on either developing our own dual dash camera with a backup system that connects through Wi-Fi. So all they have to do is like pull into their driveway and it will upload. The other option, which I personally like more, is where the driver app uses your front and back camera while you're driving and it automatically constantly uploads. The only concern—

Oh, it's like almost like live streamed from your car.

Correct.

Yeah.

And that's what I would prefer. The only concern from my technical director, Matthew May, and Levi, is the quality. They're like, well, You know, it's a rural area, you know, you're lucky to have 2 bars, so maybe the quality wouldn't be great. So we're trying to figure it out. But we already have something in place for everything ready to go and for future expansion because we really know that we're going to expand quickly. Right now, the federal government just gave $50 billion total to all the states. It came to a total $50 billion specifically for rural healthcare access.

Right.

So like we—

we got ours in the state of North Dakota. The announcement came out, I think, last week.

Yeah, if anyone in North Dakota is an FQHC, which is a federally funded care center, and would like to work with us, please reach out. We offer contracts, and we, we offer, um, contracts that are specific to your needs. One of the things I did want to bring up was like during our 400 free rides, I realized that how Uber and Lyft and all other TNCs work won't work for us, meaning you logging, clocking in and out whenever you want you dropping off anyone anywhere, it doesn't work in rural areas, right? The average driving is like 15 to 20 miles. It doesn't work. So we, we came up with something called geofenced pickup zones and shifts. It's still like a pick your own, like, gig thing for them, but they have to pick a shift like 2.5 hours to 7.5 hours. You can pick any of those and you then have to pick a location. So a geofence location— so, um, people get confused on this, so let me explain. So imagine an Elite route system where we have geofence zones, like a ratio that's protected around Clearfield, Phillipsburg, Bigler, and, um, State College and Altoona. These are the surrounding places. When you are a driver, you can— you pick a location and then the shift. You can only pick up in that area, but you can drop off anywhere. And this is going to help with long wait times and limit something called deadheading, which is where you're paying for the driver when there's no one available. And that is one of the massive issues of Uber and Lyft that has caused them to not be profitable. They weren't profitable for 12 years. Uber, right?

Yeah.

So, yep.

Well, I just— sorry, I love I love getting to talk to people that have taken an idea and ran with it the way that you have in all stages of the development of their business. Right? Sometimes we're like pre-launch people. Sometimes we're super mature businesses and you're kind of right at the peak. Like you're, you're not technically pre-launch anymore. You're like in it. You're like in launch.

Yeah.

Um, So going back to— I was just realizing, I don't know that we actually addressed the who are we talking to, right? So because we got off on a tangent about rich people because you were like, rich people, if there's rich people listening, please call me, right? So that's— I mean, yes, no, noted. Who else though?

Obviously any— not only just investors, but if any politician. So local, we do— we offer contracts to government agencies. This includes local counties. We will absolutely work with local counties, not just state, not just big ones, local counties, hospitals, hospital care systems. Yes. Senior living facilities. We will work with any of that because we are a B2C, which is a, you know, business to consumer. But we're predominantly focused on B2B. And the reason that is, is because of our geofence zones. So when we get a contract, we also then open up our B2C in those areas as well. So, okay, that's—

so for people that don't talk that language, like, I'm sorry. Yeah, no, no, no, you're good because I get it. But so when you say business to consumer, that means you simply have a pricing model where a family, as long as you have a geofence set up already because of a contract. So let's, let's just make this really clear, right? So state of North Dakota, Department of Health and Human Services. I'm going to say they go, oh my gosh, Rebecca, we listen to this podcast. How do we get it? And they're— we're like, you just talk to Nicole. And all of a sudden, we have a geofence around the entire state, which would be a very large one. But what you're saying then is that through that contract, you then open up the, like, the direct family payment, which is almost like a membership. Is that how you would define that? I mean, is that a way to look at it?

Yeah.

So that's one way to look at it. So one of the things that we discovered during our research and development was that we can't take on everyone. Yeah, you can't—

you can't like random people, random families, right?

Right. Yeah, you can't. It will not work. It barely works in urban areas. It definitely isn't gonna work in rural areas. So we have a membership fee, um, and the minimum is like 50 people in an area. So like the geofence zones are based off of little towns or townships. So like we— a minimum of 50 people, a max of maybe like 300, 350.

Okay, so North Dakota wouldn't have one geofence, you'd have many geofences within North Dakota. Okay, because that's how it works.

So this way we're not having people just roaming everywhere, right? Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

See, I think this is a really clear way to explain geofencing in a way that people— and maybe some people are like, holy Rebecca, are you dense— but like, I just think this is helpful because also then you'd have a small geofence. So like, what's the maximum size, um, kind of distance-wise? How big of a—

yeah, radius of the geofence zone? We need Well, we do, we include in like Walmart or grocery stores or—

Sure. Okay.

But predominantly it's just the entire town or township that we're going to cover for the pickup zone. Now, one of the things we offer for our contracts is that every 3 to 6 months we review everything. Where are they going? Do we need to change anything? Do we need— are we seeing like them trying to order at a location that we're not at that's maybe be slightly out of that geofence zone. So we're always willing to work on it. But yeah, we, we include basically just the, the actual legal aspects of that town or township, and that's your pickup zone.

Okay.

And, and also then therefore your drop-off. And that's how it works. And that's preventable. That's what's going to prevent long wait times, high cost to us, and then therefore high cost to the consumer. So there is a monthly membership fee, which it's starting at, um, 30— around $34.99 is what we're predicting. The reason I say predict is because we have to get it usually approved by a PUC. So it's a whole thing. But then there's— so that gets you in and it also gets you an ad booklet. That was another thing that seniors asked, like, can we use you as a resource for more information? Like, we wish we had like one thing. And I was like, you know what? That's a great idea. I'm going to offer you guys basically like an old-fashioned phone book and I'm going to work with local businesses that I know have a high a senior consumer or seniors need, like house cleaners, mechanics, like mechanics or handymen, all of that stuff. And they— so you get this booklet filled with all these local, uh, advertisements and nonprofits and things like that. So they have all their information right there in a phone book, uh, style, right? And then it gets you access to us, and our mileages are going to be, um, for anything less than 6 miles, it's like $3 a mile. That then if you go from 6 to, to about 14 miles, it's going to cost you $2.50. Anything over 15 to 35 is like our max limit, is 35 miles that we're predicting. As we grow, that will change, um, but 35 miles, it's $1.30 a mile. So you would pay that, and we keep it as affordable as possible. And we have tier memberships that we're going to offer. So one of the things that a lot of senior family members asked us, is there a tier membership that I can pay for all of it, and then my senior wouldn't have to pay for any of the mileage. And we found it about $200 was like what everyone said they would pay, and that would— they wouldn't have to pay for any of the mileage. So yeah, that's, that's how it would work for a, a consumer.

So yeah, it— I think, you know, the other thing that we haven't even really touched on in terms of a benefit, but like, I think about one of the things I was just thinking about as you were talking, I was thinking like, okay, well, how, you know, how does this differ from our public transportation that we have here? Well, One of the things is that it's the timeliness. Like, it's not like we're leaving town and we're going to this place, so if you wanna go, you come with us, right? Which puts it on— it, it forces the user to adopt to the schedule instead of meeting, you know, actually meeting their needs and having like a real-time—

Oh yeah.

Uh, that's, that's kind of incredible.

Thank you. The average wait time for rural areas, paratransit and public transit, they'll tell you it's an hour, but it's actually— several studies have proved it's sometimes up to a 3-hour wait. And if you are not outside when these people arrive, they will leave you. And I was like, that's ridiculous. So we also— it's the same with like Uber and Lyft, right? They'll just leave. We require door-to-door hands-on transport. So the driver will, will park their car in a safe location. They will get out and they will assist you. And we also offer, uh, an optional, uh, helper's fee, which is where the driver brings in your groceries or takes out your trash. And it's up to 30 minutes for a small fee.

Right. So, um, Nicole, I, here's, here's what I want to say. Uh, I have so many things that I wanted to say. I, first, I just want to thank you. I want to thank you for being the kind of human that, uh, saw another human in need and said, this this cannot continue, and you did something about it. Um, so seriously, kudos to you for even like marching in this direction, because it's, um, it's really hard getting something off the ground. This is, this is complex in the sense of what you had to build. I can't imagine, I can't imagine how challenging it's been to build what you've done. Um, you get, you get all the credit in the world for that, and thank And highlighting you on this show, I, I would love nothing more than to see this idea just take off and be so successful because I genuinely believe in what you're trying to build, like for the success of not just the humans that you're impacting, but our communities and our economies because of it.

Thank you. Yeah. Um, I really, I, you have no idea. I'm, thank you. I really appreciate that because it. Sometimes feels like almost no one cares about the seniors, and it's very upsetting. So I appreciate that you see the— not only the need, but you really want to see that it's successful. That means the world to me. And we're a remote company, so we can go anywhere. We tell everyone we can go anywhere. We can get up and running to any new state within 3 to 6 months. We give it a 3 to 6 months because of the PUC, but once we get our permit we can, we can expand nearly 1 to 2 months. We can expand.

So, and as you know, as I'm sitting here and I'm thinking about the barriers that you've had to, to entry, basically, I, I just, I seriously hope that everybody that listens to this, especially if you think, oh my gosh, like, I could connect her to this or that or that, I— all it's going to take, Nicole, is one partner to come along and say We are, we're, we are going to get into this with you. We're going to, we're going to buy your thing as it is, but we're going to be like, you need that idea of like thought partnership and support with further and future development. Like, that's all this is going to take. And I just, I obviously like, I want to just say this because I think it's really important. We've had guests over that I've done. I've podcast for quite a long time now. It's been over 7 years. That I've been doing this. Not all, not all under the name of Growing Small Towns. It was called the Small Town Big Talk show at one point.

I love that.

But the, the point is, is like, we have definitely had business owners on this show that since have either shuttered their doors or they've moved on and changed direction. And I still have zero regrets about having them on our program because there's something really powerful about highlighting people like you that had such a visceral experience with another human and you chose to do something about it. I actually just— like, my voice caught in my throat a little bit. I think it's so special. Like, and if more people would just open their eyes and look at everybody around them and think to themselves, what could I do? How could I help? I can't— I mean, our world could be so much better, so much faster. Um, so to have dedicated this much of your time, this much of your current time, your money, your life, your resources, and also to have your mom's support. Like, that's— I love that. I love, I love that that whole background is coming into this. Like, this is not just your average tech startup. This is combined with a ton of humanity.

Yes, we— I wanted to give back to rural areas as much as I could. Like, not only because yes, there's a need, yes, there's a market, yes, we don't have any competition, so we'll be able to expand quickly. All those yes business things. But for me, when I think about my mom and my papa, who were my, who were my everything, and in Elk Garden, West Virginia, and I know how many, because I still get calls to this day because we don't offer the free rides anymore because I couldn't afford to keep doing it. Um, the amount of people that I know need help and I, I want to give back to the communities that that make up the best part of me, which is rural America. I am who I am today. I'm a strong, confident woman who believes in community and helping other people because of rural areas, and I want to give back to them.

Well, amen. I mean, what else is there to say? Everything that people need to find you, to find your company, to find the information, they can find it in the show notes. Um, and I feel this way a lot. Like, we've kind of started, um, Cassidy, uh, my VA and I, we've talked about going back and looking kind of at previous, previous guests and doing like past guests status checks, you know, saying like, hey, let's check in on that guest. I, I don't know that I've ever hoped more for an opportunity. Like, I'm getting so emotional. Like, I just want you to be successful so badly. Uh, I really, really hope that that our future. Um, and that will be good. Yeah, I, I do. I just believe so much in what you've done. And I— my mind is so blown by the fact that you also had to like build the tech because it's just not my thing. That's Levi Martin's thing.

That is Levi's thing.

I literally got to say his full name 3 times and I'm very stoked about that.

I'm sure he'll be happy about it too.

Yeah, like, listen, you're just— we kept calling you out. It's, um, I, I— that's what I hope for, Nicole. I hope that this is just a first a first round episode. Uh, I hope that one day your important business is giving rides to seniors in my community.

Um, I would love to go to North Dakota. I've never been.

I will figure out, uh, who— I need to get your information. I— that's going to be the next thing I do, and I hope everybody listening to this does the same. Um, thank you. Thank you for caring about our— the aging population in our rural places. Mostly, thank you for caring about rural places. It's, it's really great to know you. I really appreciate your time today and I can't wait to have you back.

Same. I am beyond thankful. Like I told you at the beginning, I think I've applied to like 50 podcasts to talk about this issue and my company. So I can't thank you enough. And for everyone out there listening, if you know this is an issue that your area faces, one of the best things you can do other than reaching out to like hospitals or anyone else that you think that would need us and would want to contract with us. But spread the word. We're on TikTok. We rarely post on Facebook anymore, but because it's just me— by we, it's just me— but our TikTok— we have TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, and a LinkedIn. Get the word out. We will talk to anyone, we'll interview anywhere, and the more that people know about us, the better chance we have. So thank you. So that's what— thank you for you just having me on this podcast is is enough for, for me to get my info out there. So thank you.

I'm happy to spread the good word, and I'm sure everybody listening will do the same. Thank you so much, Nicole. We will have you back soon, and I can't wait.

I can't wait. Thank you so much, Rebecca.

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