From Bad Busy to Good Busy: Mastering Productivity w/Kate Sotsenko

Hello and welcome to another episode of the Whole Human Podcast. My name is Peter Sorgenfrei. I am your host, and today I have with me Kate Satsenko. Kate, welcome on the show.

Hi, Peter. Thank you for having me.

So Kate is a founder, and I'm not sure if you call yourself a CEO, but we'll get into that in a second. But she's certainly the founder of The Good Busy. And one of the things that I've noticed as we got connected on LinkedIn some time back is you have very clear thinking and communication about how we go from bad busy to good busy. And that's what we're going to talk about today. But first, for the people who do not know you, which can't be many, but for the few people that listen to this who do not know who you are, would you mind introducing yourself?

Yeah, of course. So first of all, thank you for inviting me once again, and thank you everyone who's listening, if you are listening. So my name is Kate and I'm the founder of thegoodbusy.com, but before I was in corporate for 15 years, my background is in client relationship management and client experience. And I used to work in luxury hospitality and retail brands, and now I work with mid-senior leaders, helping them free up time from what I call bad busy work, because I believe that we need to choose the work that truly deserves to get done so that we do more fulfilling work and we feel more rewarded at work and have plenty of time for what matters to us beyond work.

So that all sounds wonderful, but if I'm a mid-senior leader and I'm caught in bad busy, Yeah. How do I, how do I make a change if I have bosses who give me all this stuff that causes me to be bad busy? What are some of the first things I need to think about as I'm in that situation?

That's a great question because that, the, I think this is how we generally view it. We always think that that bad busyness comes from the, what I, it's not my words, it's the Timothy Gallwey that I'm paraphrasing, is the outer game. It's Everything, the work that people give us. But the thing is that productivity, just like happiness, is an inner game. It's a game of decisions, right? There are things that we can say yes to, things that we can say no to. We don't ask enough questions in the workplace. For instance, we rarely ask, what is my responsibility in all that bed business, right? Because we all have an opportunity to ask the question. To stand, stand up for ourselves, or even just wonder why. I think that's a classical one, especially in the corporate place. Why have we been doing this report for the last 5 years and we've never changed that, right? So the first place to start is just asking, starting to ask those questions. And one of the best, most powerful, sometimes painful question to ask is, what is my responsibility in it?

So unfortunately it starts with us.

Yeah.

Unfortunately we have ourselves.

No surprise here.

Right? Take, take some responsibility and look at what we're doing and ask that question. What is my responsibility? I, I like to talk about it and saying, do I need to be doing this? Right? Is it something that needs to be done or do I not need to be doing it? When we look at our personal lives and all the things we have to do, a lot of people run around and feel really busy. But they've never done an audit of saying, actually, all the things that I'm doing, is it something that I need to do? Is it something that I want to do? Or is it something that I quote unquote have to do? And it, you know, I'm so old and gray that I can argue there's nothing you have to do. You kind of have a choice at all times in the matter. Do you agree with that statement that you, do you have a choice or do you think that there are still things where we don't have a choice, things that we have to do?

Um, I'll answer that in a second. I just want to pick up on something that you just said. Unfortunately, it starts from us. I think it's actually fortunately it starts from us because whatever is not within our control is outside of us. We don't like people changing us, right? We don't like people telling us what to do. So it goes the same with others. So sometimes we play this outer game, but actually it's a game that is impossible to win because it Very hard or even impossible to change people, right? For me, that's fortunately, it starts from us. And I think it was Brian Tracy said that 80% of all the circumstances that we are leading are within our control. So coming back to your question, I still think that there are things that we have to do. I'm not a fan of doing accounting, but I have to do it.

So somebody else could do it for you. Right? I mean, you could outsource that part if you wanted.

I could, but it still needs to be done, right? So somehow it still needs to be done. Somehow I still need to be on top of it, right? Especially if I'm running my own business or even if I am a corporate employee, for example, you run a team, so you still have a budget to manage. So you do, I think it's all about the 80/20 rule, the classical Pareto rule. I think that applies. to everything. Of course, if you feel at work that you have to do 80% of the things, there is definitely and clearly something wrong with that. But if there are the 20%, especially coming back, you know, to your example of those bosses that give us a lot of work, et cetera, well, that's the reality. That's part of the game, right? You don't win every single point. I played tennis for 10 years. It's not because you don't win every single point that you don't get to win, whether it's in a tennis match or at work.

And I, and I, the way that I talk to clients about it is I actually do a mental reframing. So rather than I have to do this, I ask them to think about it. I get to do this, right? I have an opportunity here to do something that will move something else forward that I care about. And sometimes that's a task that we don't necessarily enjoy, uh, making our bed as children, uh, or doing accounting, uh, accounting as adults.

Yeah.

But it's still something we get to do to move something forward or to live in a calmer space, for example, if we use the, the making your bed concept. So how has, so the business started after you came out of corporate. Can you tell us a little bit about how you got started and how it's going with, with The Good Busy?

Yes. So I actually left a big corporate company in 2022 and I joined a smaller one where the idea was that, okay, we know that you want to to do your own business and you want to work in productivity and help people around that topic, but come over to our company and help us do that internally first. And you can test yourself, you can test again your skill, your theories, your methods, everything, you know. So this is what I've done. And I was in Singapore at that time, and then I moved to Cyprus where I'm here closer to my family, and that's where I started. I didn't plan at all to start posting on LinkedIn. I've never posted anything publicly before. So I randomly decided, okay, it's time. I just write, you know, on LinkedIn, I'm starting my own business. And that's what I did. And then I noticed that there is educational content on LinkedIn. I didn't know that before. For me, LinkedIn was something that I used just, you know, to talk to headhunters or to look for a job. And that's where it all started. So the way I envisioned actually to start it is not at all how I started at the end. And I'm grateful for that. And I think that now being on that journey, I realized that every single step is an experiment. And so that was an experiment that I was willing to try and it worked out for me and it definitely is working out for me. So now. I do have clients and I do have invitations to podcasts. For example, I get to speak to amazing people like you or Roberto, who we know as well, together. So there are a lot of opportunities that are coming thanks to my presence on LinkedIn and how I started, how I decided to start the business.

And it's amazing. Again, you have 47,000 followers. It's gone pretty quick for you. And I'd encourage anybody listening or watching this to go check out Kate Sot-Senko, and the name will be spelled in the notes. Another thing you mentioned briefly is I was in Singapore and then I was in Cyprus. When we spoke preparing for our conversation today, we talked about this concept of home. So I'm shifting gears here a little bit because you've moved around relatively quickly and as— not quickly, relatively frequently.

Yeah.

And as you've done that, you've said that all these moves have taught you something about yourself and the sense of home. A lot of the people who will be listening to this are living in places that are not their birthplace, if we can define that, right? So they are entrepreneurs living somewhere else in the world than where they were born. What have these moves taught you, or why did you move so much? Maybe we could start there. What is it about moving around that has been appealing to you?

I think if we, that's a, it's a great question and it's a very, a question that is very dear to me because to be honest, I'm still searching for that concept of home. I'm getting closer to the idea that it is within me. And you just mentioned a lot of people living in the countries where they were not born. I left the country where I was born 22 years ago, and more than half of my life, even early in my early days, I didn't live there. So it's very hard for me to call that country home today. I've met a lot of people when I lived in, in the countries where I lived that, you know, speak during holidays time, I'm going back home. For holidays, I've never said this. It's very hard for me to say I'm going back home. I'm all, I'm only saying I'm going to see my parents who are still living in that country. So that is the concept that I don't know if it's a, a gift and a curse at the same time. So this is something that I'm pondering on. If I say on a daily basis, I'm truly not exaggerating because It's not easy, especially when you want to build your business, not to feel grounded.

Yeah.

And that's what I'm trying to find every single day. And I realized that the only way for me is to find it within me. So it's a constant work with therapists, with coaches, with myself. And to your second part of the question, what did I learn from moving? The number one lesson that I learned is that there is no such thing as right or wrong. And a lot of times we're hearing, you're doing this wrong, you got this wrong. And what I learned is that there is simply no such thing. Everything depends on the context. There is, I always say that copy paste only works in Excel. Because the every single cell has the exact same context and conditions, right? And sometimes when you take Excel and you paste it in Word, it already doesn't work, right? So it's the same in life. And that is for me the the biggest learning. And what do you get from that as a as a learning? You get a skill of adaptability. Adaptability is I think is an incredible skill that we underestimate because I've read somewhere that over, um, in especially in big companies and even today, right? Even in smaller companies, you can be hiring someone who works in a completely different country, right? Remotely for you. We have teams that normally have 80%, 80% of them come from different cultures and backgrounds.

Right.

So that means that the definition of what is right and wrong for Each single one of them is completely different. And that, that's, I think what we need as human beings is that adaptability, that acceptance, that understanding, that curiosity. Again, coming back to asking more questions to be able to actually communicate, right? And to work together because at the end, no matter what is happening today in the world with tech, at the end, we're working with humans. And the biggest problems that we, we have today do not come from tech. They come from our interactions with humans.

So, so, so the moving around has exposed you to different cultures, different ways of working, different groups of people, different opinions in a more physical way, right? You actually weren't sitting behind your screen and communicating. You were actually out in different cultures.

Yeah.

While at the same time working, obviously, uh, some part remote, some part was, was physical for you. And so the biggest learning there is to, to think about the perspective of others in a different way and not judge whether or not what they're doing or what you're doing is, is right or wrong. I think that's, you know, with the last night was the election in the United States. I don't know when this will air, but, but certainly for many people, That event was very divisive. It is a very black and white kind of scenario. I've lived in the United States for 13 years. I understand how that system works. But for many Europeans, certainly looking at what happened in the election, they don't understand how those guys cannot see that what they did, what the choices that they made in that election weren't the right choices. And to your point, to paraphrase, Whatever is right for whomever makes that choice is right for them. We cannot judge without knowing the circumstances because we're not in Excel, so everything is not uniform and consistent. I really like that corollary to one of my favorite softwares. I might steal that, but I'll, I'll, I'll try and remember and remember, uh, to mention where it came from. I wanted to, to talk to you about this entrepreneurship. So you've been going for, for a while now, a couple of years. From the sights of it, pretty successfully. You have clients, you have a presence, you get opportunities as you mentioned. What has been some of your biggest challenges on your entrepreneurial journey? What has been the most difficult for you?

Hmm, that's a good question. I think there is no one. For you, many. And I think we need to be very realistic about that. I think you and I would spend a lot of time on LinkedIn. We consume a lot of content there. And there's a lot of conversation, you know, that how you can only find freedom. And I know that you work with founders, uh, and startups and, you know, there is this conversation that you can only find freedom and happiness outside of the 9 to 5. I still don't understand where this concept of 9 to 5, uh, came from because I've never worked 9 to 5 in my 15 years of corporate life. But What I think that is that, um, after 2 years on this journey, again, I'm learning that there is no right or wrong. It's again, depends on your definition of freedom, right? In a corporate world, you can have that freedom of getting sick and you're still getting a sick leave. You can delegate your work. You're not worried that work is not going to be done. Well, maybe sometimes you, you are, but generally you are entitled to. Today, I know that I don't have that entitlement. I can't get sick, right? Because the work that is being done is done by me. So this is one of the challenges, definitely, because I have to be my own carrot and my own stick at the same time. Even if I don't want to, I have to do it. So coming back to the conversation, whether I have, but I, I rephrase it. I tend to rephrase it like you, I get to, I get to, but that's, that's mental work, right? Um, the other one I think, again, just to stay a little bit on the social media side is the comparison. We are all human. We're going to compare. And I, you know, sometimes comparison is very hard, especially because those glories are more visible than, you know, the struggle.

Mm-hmm.

Um, but I learned that comparison can be good for us when it's honest, because when I look at someone, I always again ask myself questions. What do I like about that? That sort of ticks or kind of those emotions that I'm feeling right now. And if I like it, if I truly like it and that could serve me and that's where I want to go, okay, what do I need to do to start filling the gaps? But I'm not saying that's a challenge. Comparison is definitely a challenge, especially we are comparing ourselves when I, I mean, uh, in the beginning of my journey, I'm comparing myself to, to people that, you know, I follow and they've probably been on that journey for, uh, way more years than I have.

Right.

And I think the third one, um, to be quite honest, is selling yourself. So I'd been working through coaching on that one, and I kind of starting to realize that I'm not selling myself. I'm actually selling the outcome that I can help to deliver. But that's a mindset shift that requires a lot of work. I, I spent 15 years in a corporate world selling other products, big brands, big names. It was, I'm not saying it was always easy, but it's easy to talk about those because they, they, they are very well known. They deserve their presence on the arena. They deserve their presence in, in somebody's, um, you know, home or pocket. Um, but what about you? So that, I don't know if it's the imposter syndrome because I'm also learning that imposter syndrome is just a symbol of growth. I've never done it before. Of course I'm going to have imposter syndrome. If I'm not having it, that's There's something wrong, right? So there is the overconfidence bias in this case. So I think imposter syndrome is, is good, but I think it's just, it, coming back to the challenge, it's, it's, it is a challenge and I'm still constantly working through it.

So, so to summarize, there are basically 3 things that have been a challenge for you. One of them is self-management, right? Am I the carrot and the stick? Am the reliance on self? So. You cannot take a day off or be sick too long because then your business will suffer in the development. Number 2 is the comparison, right? We have a tendency to look at somebody who's way ahead of us and be like, oh, that person is a star. But what we tend to forget is they struggle just as much as we might be struggling in order to get there. It's not all roses and sunshine. And then, then thirdly, Is this idea of selling ourselves as service providers, the difficulty in getting up on the soapbox and saying, buy me versus buy big company brand that's already developed something that people know, which I also think is a very common challenge for most people. How have you overcome this? Not the number 1 and 2, I think that's pretty clear, but number 3. So you said you work through coaching. If somebody's sitting out there having difficulty selling themselves, picking up the phone and calling potential customers or emailing them or doing public posting on LinkedIn, like, like you and I are doing, what's the— I'm asking for one piece of advice. You can have more. I get the sense that there might be more than one, but what would you advise them to do to get over this feeling or this fear of selling themselves?

I think that's the first one I just mentioned earlier. So the reframe, I'm not selling myself, I'm selling the outcome, right, that I can help to achieve. So that's the first one. And so that is the reframe of our own beliefs, of our own mindset. And last year I attended a workshop of someone I've been following on YouTube for, I think, 3, 4 years, Chris Do. I'm not sure if you're familiar with him. And in the workshop, he said something that resonated with me, that we can't really just sit and change our beliefs, but actions change our beliefs because when we take action, we see the results, we see that outcome. Um, and I think that the only advice that I can give here is take action anyways. It's a, it's a common advice, but it's honestly the only way to change your own beliefs. We still think that there is this, um, you know, we have this bias of the spotlight effect that everybody's watching and everybody's judging and we're in the center of everything. They don't really care.

Husky, I made these stickers. I think I've shown that publicly too. I have stickers for my clients that says nobody cares.

Nobody cares.

Don't worry about everybody watching our stuff. They're not.

Yes. No, they're busy with their own stuff. You know, hopefully good busy, but you know, so yeah, so that's the thing. Just take action and just start. And I started asking, there's another book that I read and they said that it's all about asking, you know, 100, uh, 1,000 times. I have to get confident, you know, in asking. And that's what I'm trying to do. Um, that's, that's the only way. Just take action.

The corollary I use to, that I use with clients is you cannot learn to swim without getting in the pool. Right. I mean, you can, you can watch all the YouTube videos you want on swimming technique and you can have a coach and all the other stuff, but at some point you have to get into the water. And you have to feel funky and you start learning the strokes and then eventually you actually start learning how to swim and then you get better and better and then you start optimizing. It's the same thing with business. You don't know, you cannot learn how to sell yourself or something else unless you actually try to sell. You can't learn how to write unless you write and push it publicly like, like you and I have done.

Absolutely.

Um, there's, uh, there's, there's plenty of evidence of all that. So. If you're listening to this, if you're thinking about starting your own business, or if you're struggling with the motivation, pick one action that you're gonna try every single day, whether it's publishing something or whether it's contacting a new customer or whether it's something else. But it has to be something that goes out into the world. Don't sit with it by yourself because with that, you're not gonna learn as much as if you're exposing it to others. Okay, we're getting, we're getting close to the, the finishing point here. I have a feeling we could talk for hours, but today we're not gonna do that. Maybe we'll do that some other time. One of the things that I've noticed with you is you seem to have a very good sense of creating balance in your life in terms of your outdoor time. You have your writing time, you have your client time. Tell me a little bit about how you manage your personal energy during this, you know, fairly demanding thing that you've taken on in building your own business. How do you manage your energy?

That's a good question. I think, again, definition of balance is very different for everyone, and I'm very mindful of that. And also, I think the balance in, we have seasons of our life as well, right? So that balance can vary in those seasons as well, and that's important to be mindful of that. So in my 20s, I worked 15-hour days and I worked on weekends, and I've experienced temporary vision loss, which was Almost burnout, big signs of burnout, because we didn't have warnings. And I've learned since then that doing more doesn't get more things done. So as much as I want to do many more things, I need to pace myself because I've also been an athlete for 10 years. So I understand the importance of rest. It's an integral part of productivity because rest produces energy. And energy is what we need to be productive along with the focus and then time, of course. So for me today, I, for example, sleep is non-negotiable for me. I have a very, very clear schedule when it comes to sleep. I must sleep 8 hours a day, but I go at the same time and I wake up at the same time every single day. So that's number one. Then I do, I still, because I was in sports, I still Just sports is still important for me. So I still play tennis normally weekly, um, here in, in Cyprus. I also do yoga 2, 3 times a week. And I spend, I'm very lucky to live very close to the beach, maybe a different beach from yours.

It's warmer.

Much warmer. So I like, usually in summer I go during lunchtime, I go for a swim at the, at the beach. So it really allows you to just disconnect. I tend not to just bring my phone or not look at it at all, uh, when I, when I'm there, especially not swimming, of course. And then now that it's getting a little bit, um, cold, well, colder is a big word here, but I go for lunch walks and it really allows me to recharge during, you mentioned energy, so recharge during that midday so that I can still be productive in the second half of the day. And I have, I work a lot. I must be honest with you, but I also love working. I don't have children, so that's, I'm very mindful of that. That's why my balance is going to look very different from many people. But Saturday is for me is a no work day. There is nothing I do that is related to work. And this is a boundary that I set for myself. And I like working on Sunday mornings because I feel that This is mostly when I do my content work for, for the whole week or even for a few weeks, because this is the time where I feel the world stays still. There is less noise, less clutter, and it allows me truly to, to focus and deliver, uh, a lot of value work at the same time.

So we'll encourage everybody to find their approach to balance, whatever that means. But can we agree that Some part of non-work activity during the day seems to be helpful for most people, or would you not go that course? Of course.

No, no, of course. Productivity, a lot of people think productivity is time management. Well, let's be realistic. Can you manage time? You can't, right? It's just, we can, I can stop the timer, but I can't stop the time. So productivity has 2 more ingredients that you actually can control, and that's energy and attention. You don't have energy, you don't have attention. You don't have attention, you're going to take much longer to accomplish any task. So nurturing that energy is crucial. How do you nurture this? You sleep well, you take rests, walk, you just forage, et cetera. You get energized and you eat well. Okay.

Very good. And on those encouraging words, Kate, thank you so much for joining me today.

Thank you, Peter. Thank you for having me, and thank you everyone for listening.

This was another episode of the Whole Human Podcast. I'm your host, Peter Sorgenfrei. I get to speak to amazing people like Kate. If you know somebody else who you would want to have come on the episode, I'm happy to hear from you. Or if there's a specific topic that you want us to cover, we can do that as well. Thank you for listening and have a good day.