Dani Markovits, Creator & Community Manager @ LinkedIn

Welcome back to The Graduate Guide. Today we're joined by Danny. Danny, welcome to the podcast, mate.

Thanks, Peter. Thanks for having me. Excited to be here.

So you are the manager of creators and community at LinkedIn. Could you just, uh, for the listeners that don't understand LinkedIn, let them know what a community or being a creator on LinkedIn means? Explain what your role consists of.

Yeah, I think that's a good way to start, and I always like to start by saying Context-wise, I think LinkedIn is changing the way I see it. At least the platform has been evolving. Even though it's an old platform, I think we're kind of this second, you know, version, at least from my, from our team's perspective, which is basically LinkedIn is becoming a place where you don't only look for a job and a place where people are coming to, you know, learn, connect, converse, share, open opportunities. I, at least myself, a few years ago, I was only using LinkedIn when, you know, you were looking for a job. And now, of course, I work there, but I see people in the tube just using LinkedIn like, like Instagram, like, like other social platforms. Because of what my team is doing, I don't want to take all the credit, but basically, yeah, we've been helping people from all sorts of lives WACs, CEOs, but also the students, you know, be a bit more active, share their knowledge, share their insights, build an audience, which, as you told me before, and would love to also go back to that, you know, can change your life, can open opportunities. So that's a segue to kind of what does it mean to be a creator on LinkedIn. I think it took me a while to, to understand, but I think it's, it's a bit different on the other platforms. I think on LinkedIn is more about, you know, You don't need to be a full-time creator. It's more about being an expert in your domain, and it can be any domain, and it can be any range of expertise. You don't need to be, you know, the CEO. I think I'm a big believer that anyone has something to share. So it's basically helping experts, members share that knowledge on the platform, and that's what we do in a nutshell.

I think the really interesting thing about LinkedIn is how many different stages of someone's career it caters to. You just mentioned being CEO and executive, but also I started as a student. And I think being a student, it was a difficult app to wrap my head around in the beginning. You saw a lot of successful people congratulating a lot of other successful people. You saw emojis flying everywhere. You saw terms like personal branding that you've just never heard of. And I think making sense of it was difficult at the beginning, and even making my algorithm work for me. But what would you say is your top 3 piece of advice for just, OK, you're about to download the app. You're about to step into this world that's LinkedIn, and you've never heard anything. What should you do?

That's a great question. I would say— and I think it's easier than in other platforms as well to get started. And as you said, anyone can be successful. I think it's again about where you are in your career and kind of the mindset. I think the mindset is key. But for people who are just starting, I would say of course the basics, you know, make sure you have a good profile. Um, and there's not much really to a profile. Make sure you have the basics, good, you know, good images. Make sure you have again a polished profile. But many people think that the profile is what will allow you to succeed on the platform. I think that's just a little part of it. It's then what you do in the platform in general, which will take people to see your profile more. So basically, I would suggest people to be curious, to start, you know, following people in their industries or the industries they want to get into. I think that's a great way to start, you know, not only consuming their knowledge and insights, but start commenting and engaging with people that you look forward to or people in your industry or people you know. I think comments are such an undervalued, um, you know, part of LinkedIn. And you'll be surprised on not only how people engage in the comments, but how comments will create, you know, a sense of belonging, community. So that's one. Even you can do it a bit more structured where every day you leave 10 comments and you connect with maybe 10 people in your industry. Again, you will be surprised on not only people accepting your requests but even people responding to, to messages, maybe jumping on a call. Of course, you need to, you know, do it properly, try to add value as well. But people wanna— I think if done properly, wanna mentor, wanna help. And it's a platform that I think it's a bit more positive than other platforms as well. And I would say after that, to take it to the next level, start sharing your journey. Again, you don't need to be— you don't have to be a CEO to, to share content. You can even ask questions. You can even share about what you're currently enjoying or reading or passionate about. You can reshare something with your own take. It's more about putting yourself out there and, you know, building that habit.

Yeah, I think curiosity is the most underrated thing on LinkedIn. It's, uh, and it doesn't always have to be online, which I think is a bit of a misconception. One of my favorite things about LinkedIn is being in London, I'll walk down streets and I'll see these office buildings and I'll be like, how they've got 4 floors on this massive skyscraper and I've never heard of this company. What is this company? For starters, who did the marketing behind that? Or who's the CEO or the founder of this company? And you can actually go online and you can message them and you may have a chance of being able to speak to that person. That curiosity, both online and in person, letting that run wild is— yeah, I mean, it's a game changer, right? Like, I really think it's underrated.

Couldn't agree more. I think it's one of those words that get thrown a bit a lot, but I agree that it's a superpower and underrated as well. And I think that's what took me to this role as well in a bit. Just curious about ideas, about people. And I think content is that huge unlock and just helping people and me having the luxury of supporting people and learning from them as well. And I wish I had this curiosity a bit earlier, like yourself. I think it's such a compounding, you know, trait. But I agree, nowadays with all of the tools we have, you know, the internet but also AI, you know, you can even use your curiosity more. You can bounce ideas faster, you can, you know, play with it. And The way I, I approach content as well, connected to curiosity, is how can you connect the dots? How can this be connected to this and connect the angles? And I think that's how I try to share my post, is try to find, you know, two things that don't seem to be too connected and, and make a connection. And I think that's, um, what I love about content in general.

Yeah, no, I think, uh, the interesting thing about how I found you, for example, and generally how I get on any of my guests is it's not programmed. People always like, so how do you, how do you get on your guests? I'm like, I actually have no idea. Like, every time I, I think about why I've ended up at like, sat at Chervio, I'm like, well, at one point I was scrolling through my feed or I was down this rabbit hole and I thought, wow, he might have the answer to this question I've always wanted to ask, and he might be a really—

or maybe not, maybe not.

But, um, but It kind of made me think about what you're saying at the end, and you even made a post about it, which is essentially like you see news and you kind of scrape it from the internet and you digest it in your own way, and then you put it back into the world through your own lens, and suddenly you're a creator. Like, that— I accidentally became a creator, right? And, and it was definitely not intentional, but it, you know, it has changed my career, and I will get on to that. But I'd love to hear your your thoughts on, on how you can actually, you know, start making content in the beginning and do it pretty easily.

I think it, it's not clear for everyone, and it took me a while as well to understand this. Like you said, the word creator can be a bit, you know, frightening. I don't consider myself like a creative person. I think I am in a way now, but I'm not good at, you know, I've never was good on in the arts or what you think are the creative, you know, you know, things like painting, singing. Like, I was always sports. I grew up with a ball. That's still what I really think I'm the best at.

But I got stuck drawing Stickman as well. I'm with you.

So that took me a while to understand. But then, as you said, and as I shared on LinkedIn as well, especially on LinkedIn, which is why I like the platform and why I think people are really understanding the power of LinkedIn. Is that it's more about, again, what you think about something, about what's your premise. And what I tell people that are struggling to come up with content ideas is you don't need to come up with the most innovative concept, or you don't need to reinvent the wheel. You don't need to— I mean, you can. That's, that's hard, but people do it. And it's more about, again, how can you connect the dots? What's something that's happening in your industry? And it can be about any industry and share your thoughts. And I think with that mindset, with that framework, it's much easier to come up with ideas and to share content and to become a creator. And you don't need to necessarily monetize firsthand your content to be a creator. It's more about, yeah, sharing your knowledge, your insights, your point of view. So with that mindset in mind, you can just talk about anything. There's so many things happening in the world, news, timely things, and again, just share your, your point of view. So that allowed me to, to create more content, and that little framework has helped a lot of people, I think, just, you know, do more on LinkedIn.

Yeah, I think I, I started my journey on LinkedIn with this real fear of cringe that I think was induced by growing up in that generation where Instagram influencers started becoming a thing, and I'm like, well, that's not me, I won't be that. And then I kind of was like, I got to a very back against the wall feeling in my career where I was ticking all the traditional success tick boxes and it wasn't getting me where I wanted to go. And I sort of was like, okay, if I play to my strengths, I think what I can do is I can find really great people through that curiosity and I can ask them questions that maybe other people aren't. My beginning of LinkedIn was kind of like, this person said it, not me, but this person is pretty cool and you should check them out. And bit by bit, you'd take some of their audience and you'd get more comfortable in how you describe that episode and start bringing your own personality into the post a bit more. It is, you know, today I'm on track to hit 20,000 followers, which—

That's amazing.

It is. Yeah, it's been—

we don't realize how big of a number that is. Because we compare it.

Yes, and I think this is where I was going to come on to, is that I really feel that it's become this buzzword, and I know it's in your title, but community— like, I think that number represents so much more because it does represent a change from a feeling of loss and confusion and not knowing what I want to do in my career to 20,000 people supporting me, whether that's been in person or online, to actually like endorse what I'm doing and I wonder what you think really makes the difference between just numbers and vanity metrics and a community that can really propel you in your career through LinkedIn.

Yeah, I think that's such a good point. And before answering that question, yeah, I also just hit 15K.

Yeah, I saw your post. Yeah.

So of course I wanted to do a post, but yeah, even though I think we sometimes undervalue ourselves like, oh, that's not as much as, you know, this person has 100K, a million. I think still is a huge number, even 10K, 5K, 1,000. If you think about, you know, proportion context, imagine in real life having 1,000 people sitting and listening to what you say. So I think it's incredible, such a huge lever, and I wish I had started earlier, you know, understanding the value of this. Going to your question, yeah, I think it's always a tricky question. What's community? I think it's a buzzword. What's the difference between audience and community? I think many people have, you know, different takes. For me, it's what you said. It's having people, you know, supporting you, doing— and the only way to do that is by gaining their trust, by doing things properly like you did, you know, being vulnerable, putting yourself out there, asking the questions, being curious, supporting, giving shoutouts, inviting people, adding value. I think that's key, you know, and I always tell people on LinkedIn, you know, you need to play the long-term game. It's chess, it's not checkers. You also need to give more than taking, and that creates a sense of community. And I mean, community can be many things, but ultimately I think it's basics. It's engaging, it's helping, it's supporting, it's giving. And as you said, at the end of the day, I think Maybe not all of those people will be supporting you, but whenever you need anything, whenever you will ask anything, somebody is going to, you know, get back to you. Somebody is going to, you know, help you. And I think that's community. It's building that trust and positioning yourself as an expert and people knowing that you're not just— you're there for the right reasons, that you're not just selling or promoting or it's not transactional. It's more of a, you know, two-way street. So that's how I see it, especially on LinkedIn.

Maybe I have too much faith in humanity by saying this, but I do think that pretty much everybody would have started their journey with the intention of building what you just described. But I think somewhere along the way, you can get sucked into this world that doesn't really represent you and actually start barking up the wrong tree when it comes to the content you're posting and the kind of people you're attracting. What would you say are some telltale signs that you should maybe step back and recalibrate what content you're posting on LinkedIn?

Yeah, that's a tough question. In my eyes, I would say if you're doing it for the wrong reasons. I see many people jumping on bandwagons or trends on what's, you know, what's a shiny object. So AI, you know, or the metaverse or crypto a few years ago, and just, you know, going, starting sharing that content because that's what you know, people are talking about, that's what's hot, but without any, as you said, curiosity about it, without any real, you know, reasons to talk about it, without genuine passion for that topic. So if you're doing that, I would say at some point it's not— people are going to realize you're going to get bored of that and you're going to be jumping from, you know, topic to topic, which is okay if it's for the right reasons. But again, you need to be authentic. I know it's also another one of those buzzwords that gets thrown a lot, but I think it's so true, especially when it comes to community branding and content. So that's the first thing that comes to mind is do it for the right reasons and try to play the long term. Don't cut shortcuts. I think at the end of the day, that's going to backfire.

I love the post that you highlighted while everyone was posting about the controversial Jaguar rebrand. You highlighted what Nothing did. And I think it's almost indicative of how LinkedIn's changed, how you can use humor and, you know, you can see something that everyone else is seeing and put your own, like, funny spin on it or your own unique take. And it doesn't have to just be saying what you think will go viral because everyone else is, right?

Yeah, it was my best performing post.

Yeah.

Not a strategy that I use a lot. I'm more like, you know, I'm thinking about an idea and I like to share it and take my time. But this was one of those things that was, of course, very timely. But I saw this kind of reaction from nothing to the, you know, Jaguar rebranding. And I thought it was genius. And it also goes to tell you, as you said, like, not everything on LinkedIn has to be the most serious or business. Of course, it has to be connected to business, which it is, you know, it's connected to branding, to companies. But it was a bit of like a spicy, funny take, very short. It took me 2 minutes. Sometimes, you know, people want to spend hours creating a post, and it's hard to know what will perform. I think because it was very timely and, you know, the right timing, I think it did really well. But going to the question about humor, I completely agree, and I like to see more humor on LinkedIn. I actually push people to be a bit more funny, more human. It's hard to be funny in a good way, so it really goes to tell how smart you need to be or, you know, how authentic you need to be. But there's not only levels of humor, there's the angles as well. It's less about posting memes that have no connection or about you or about your industry or about what's happening. And it's more about being very subtle. You know, there's some amazing creators like Rob Mayhem, I think, from the UK. He's like, I don't know if you've seen his videos, kind of rinsing his own industry, the agency world. Yeah, but he's so good.

Like Morning Brew as well.

Morning Brew, like, you know, Corporate Natalie. There's a few people doing it really well, and you can see how can this— they can stand out. But I think it's super hard, so it, it really goes to tell you how good you need to be. But I think humor is a— it's a huge superpower, like curiosity. Um, yeah, yeah.

I think the interesting thing, and I try and tell students this, is that when you aren't attached to an institution or corporation, it's obviously a lot easier to take the shackles off and post what you actually want. And I think, you know, obviously as a student you might feel like you've not got anything to say, but it is your time to experiment, right, and find at least your tone of voice and your personality on, on the platform. But I mean, have you seen actually companies being more endorsing of content on LinkedIn? Like, what's happened in that shift? Because I feel like there are Brands like, you know, companies like Flight Story, Arcade Media, of which I've interviewed people within both, have really adopted this idea that your employees should be promoted to speak about what they're doing and actually become a really valuable asset to the company because of it, right?

Yeah, absolutely. And that's a big shift I've seen firsthand, even in my 3, 4 years at LinkedIn. When I joined, especially more traditional companies like finance, which understandably they have a bit more restrictions, but at the beginning just talking to employees, to people working at these companies, many companies didn't even allow employees to post at all. Then as time went by, companies were okay, a bit ambivalent and provide some, you know, flexibility. And now not all, but many are, you know, just pushing their employees, their stakeholders to be active on LinkedIn. And it sounds obvious, you know, who are the best people to talk about your company, to put your company out there? You're the people working at your company. Not only it's like a free channel, but it's the best way to to put your message out there, to attract potential talent. So it's really a huge change that's happening. And second of all, I think companies are also realizing that you don't need to be the most serious. I see the likes of Monzo, of Ryanair, not only on TikTok but also on LinkedIn being super funny with the comments. And I think people, especially the younger generations, that's what, we or they want to see. At the end of the day, there was this misconception on B2B, B2C. You're talking to people. It doesn't matter if you're selling to businesses or to customers, consumers. It's people, and you want to be a bit more authentic, a bit more human. You have to do it properly. You have to be very good at what you do. But I think that's a huge change that's happening. And I think it's a positive one.

Can I propose a, a shift in, in ideas and terminology between one phrase that's used a lot on LinkedIn?

Yep.

I think that personal branding is an inaccessible term now. Like, it's been thrown around so much that people don't even know what it means anymore. Like, what, what does it actually mean? I, I think about sometimes, but the way I've been able to sit down is that you are building your online reputation. Like that, in my mind, online reputation is what should be being said. And, and the reason for that is what I love about LinkedIn is that when we meet in person, like even before the podcast started, we had points of interest. We've been able to look at each other's reputation online and cut past the small talk, you know, and go straight into the stuff you actually want to be talking about because you've got this online reputation that Yeah, a lot. Yeah, it just, it should be that simple.

I think it's a great frame. I see it similarly, which is like a digital footprint of who you are, of what you think. Um, I think personal branding can be confusing, a bit cliché, a bit frightening. What's branding? I think it's, you know, can be many things. So, so I agree, I completely agree with you. And I can see many people, as you said, just deciding where to work based on what the CEO of that company is talking about. You can connect, you can feel much more attached, you can understand the culture, the way they think. And not only that, I think people are getting hired also based on the content you share. You get approached by recruiters. It tells you much more than the actual CV. Okay, this person worked one year here or there, but you can see now how they talk, what they think, you know, how they behave. So I think it's a much, you know, much more powerful tool than, than just a CV. So, so I completely agree with your framing about personal branding as well.

There's another thing I want to touch on that I think doesn't really get spoken about enough in regards to LinkedIn and what it can do for you. And I think this, generally speaking, only really becomes unlocked when you're trying to build something for your own, or you're not, again, attached to a company. But I've made some of my best mates through LinkedIn. I've met some of my favorite people. And I think gone are the days that it's just this professional platform where you don't go much further than talking about business. I've gone on holiday with people from LinkedIn and all this kind of stuff. And I know that you moved from Israel to London to work, and I wonder what you've seen LinkedIn actually do for you just as a person and socially. Because yeah, I think it's ultimately the platform is— it's up to you how you use it. And that is one of the sort of hidden benefits, right?

I 100% agree. And I think a lot of it's what's we've been speaking about, which is when you put content out there, you're gonna attract. And I think that's key, like content being a magnet for all sorts of things. I always say that, and people is one of those things. So you connect with your tribe, with people that, you know, have similar interests. So it's much more genuine connection than, you know, like a forced one that maybe you, you have it in other, you know, places. So that's one. And love that you said that you've built, you know, friendships and actual things that are not just business. Again, going back to LinkedIn, I think people are much more positive, open. There's a sense of camaraderie I've seen, at least from my perspective. And what LinkedIn has done for me, which I've always said it, which is something maybe I was lacking in my last role, is this, you know, connection. I think I'm a connector. And that's why I've done well at this role. I like to help, not necessarily always with an agenda, you know. I think that that's key as well. If I see something that two people will benefit, I share it with them. I could put them in contact without even asking. And that, I think, has opened a lot of doors. So LinkedIn has, in my role specifically, has allowed me not only to, you know, build my network, but yeah, to put myself out there, care less about what my friends think, to be a bit more vulnerable, to share more. And I think it has opened so many doors that I'm still not even aware of, you know. So I think that's one of the things that I value most about my role is the people I speak to on a day-to-day. I've had the luxury of working with the CEO of Barclays, but also with a student just starting. And I like that range as well, you know. I've been lucky enough to meet footballers in the office. Patrice Évra came a few weeks ago. I speak now with a few of them on WhatsApp. And you realize how much more human they are, how much more down to earth they are. And you also have to be less, less afraid of reaching out to these people, as you said, even if they're famous or celebrities. They also want you to be more at their level. They want you to be— to not treat them so specially. And that's something I learned at LinkedIn. So it has really helped me, you know, put myself out there, which, which I really appreciate.

This is such a good point. And I think our generation are getting increasingly bad at putting people on pedestals that they've never asked to be put on. You know, I think you mentioned some names there where all they've done is, you know, really try something, give it a go. There's a bit of luck and, you know, they just kept executing on something for longer than they had any right to. And suddenly, does that make them a person that you can't speak to in a normal way? And I had to learn that. And maybe an extension to my answer of why LinkedIn has changed my life is that I think when people ask me after 200 episodes of this podcast, what's the best piece of advice you've been given, I don't think advice can be prescribed like that. I actually think that the best advice is something you've probably already heard before, said by someone that you respect sufficiently at a time that you needed it most. And so like, my example is that I was this history student. I mentioned this podcast began below a pub, um, near UCL, and I was interviewing the co-founder of Huel. Uh, co-founder of Huel, you know, I, I, in my mind I was like, he won't have any time for me, uh, you know, he's just gonna come in, we're gonna speak for as long as he'll give me, and then, and go. And that attitude was actually really hindering towards our conversation, what I got out of it, what he got out of it. And halfway through, because I had no production team, I had no, uh, technical skills, the, the iPhone I was recording on ran out of storage, and I had to spend like 10 minutes deleting things. And during that, we were just chatting, and like just normal people. And he was getting to know me. And at the end of the interview, I always ask, uh, how could I be better as a host? And he was like, what you did in that— in the middle there, why didn't you do that before? And I was like, oh, because— and it's like, no, just, just do that. Like, like 10 minutes, it doesn't, you know, make a difference, but it makes it so much better.

And I think people can tell.

Yeah.

And even I think that the great mentors, the great CEOs, they also want to learn from anyone. So even from you, from me, from a student, like they wanna— you think nobody can learn from you. And that goes back to my point about sharing on LinkedIn that I always tell people, and this framework has really helped me as well. And I think I shared a post as well about this too, which is I thought before sharing a post— now, now I care less. That who I am to share about this, like, I'm not the biggest expert, you know, I'm not the most knowledgeable. But then I realized, took me some time, you don't need to be a 10 out of 10, let's say, on the marketing expertise range to share something. You can be a 5 out of 10 and still teach someone that's a 2 out of 10. So I think that mindset of someone knows less than me, someone I know a bit more than someone So if someone will find this interesting, if someone will, you know, learn from this, that's already a goal, a huge win. And that's how you should approach LinkedIn. Okay, connected to the imposter syndrome. But I think anyone has something to share. And I think even more nowadays with where the world is going, where any hobby, any, you know, any curiosity can become a huge business. If you like Pokémon cards, you can become the go-to Pokémon expert on LinkedIn. And I think for me, that's what you want to aim for. And that's what I'm trying as well. You want to become the go-to, the guy, the gal. You can be the Pokémon guy. You can be the football fantasy.

Is that you, the Pokémon guy?

I wish, but no.

Secretly.

I wish. I think that there's so much behind that. But I think that's a good way to approach it as well. And even for younger people, they maybe have even an advantage here. Because they probably are ahead of the curve in hobbies, in video games, in quirks. So actually, I've never thought about it like that so clear. So this podcast has helped me elaborate. But I think that's how you should— you want to be associated, and that's the word, as an expert.

I'm glad that it's been useful for something at least. But honestly, I could talk to you for ages, Danny, but I want to ask you my final question. Which I like to give my guests an opportunity to speak to our audience, to our community of young students and graduates about to build their career, and really almost put forward a request for what you'd like to happen in the future of your company. Is there something that you would really love to see from the younger generation coming through on LinkedIn, be that content, be that taking advantage of one of the sort of more hidden features more? Like, what, what would you like to— what message would you like to send?

Tough question. I'll think about the specific, you know, thing I would like them to, to use or do. But I would say I would like to see younger people be on LinkedIn. I think it's happening, but there's still so much more for us to do with the younger people, even with high schoolers or people who are just going to graduate. Again, people still see LinkedIn as, you know, very, you know, professional, very traditional. Again, that's changing, but I wish students would understand what you and me just spoke about, what a career unlock it is just to have a profile and just to be a bit more out there. If what I started doing would have been happening 20 years ago— well, I'm not that old— I would be in a different place now. But I didn't know, I didn't want to know. So I really push everyone to— not because I work at LinkedIn, but if you want to, you know, grow in your career, building your— not your personal brand, we don't— we're not going to say that here anymore— but share, put yourself out there. I think that's the key. Reach out to people. I think also, and I think you would agree because I can see that on you, what's the worst thing that can happen? I think that's something my dad showed me at some point, and I wish I would apply that again before. Write someone, call someone. If they say no, if they say, you know, F off, okay, you're in the same spot. And I think that, that took me a while to understand, but that's my biggest you know, advice for the younger generation.

Dani, thanks so much for coming on, mate.

Thanks, mate.

It's been a pleasure.

It's been fun.