Stuart Trevor, Founder @ All Saints

Welcome back to our episode of The Grad Guide. Today we're joined by Stuart. Stuart, welcome to the podcast.

Oh, hello.

So you are the founder of Stuart Trevor and previously founder of Brandsite All Saints, and you're involved with building Reece. Could you just quickly give an overview of Stuart Trevor and what it is you guys do?

Okay, um, so about, about 3 or 4 years ago, I started mentoring young startup brands that have a positive social or environmental impact, um, and I learned a lot of things about the fashion industry, about huge issues with, um, overstock. And every brand in the world has huge issues with inventory that they don't know what to do with, and everybody's got a wardrobe full of clothes that they that they don't wear. Um, and, and there are— so when I started my career, I was designing, uh, I did a degree in fashion and then I ended up, um, I was going to go to Paul Smith but then I got an offer from Reiss that I couldn't really refuse and I went there and I was the head of it for 10 years. So I set Reiss up as a, as a brand, created that, that, that image. Um, I used to go to warehouses full of vintage military and, and deadstock garments that you can get hold of. And I would take these garments and I would, you know, buy some one-off pieces, take them to factories in— and fabric mills in Italy, copy the fabric, copy the construction, get the patterns made, get the factory to replicate these garments. And I went back to some of these warehouses about 2 years ago and they've still got a million garments in them. There's just there's just so much sitting there. It used to— they used to sell it all in Army and Navy stores, but they all closed down, uh, and these guys still have tons and tons of stock in there. And, and it's really amazing. I mean, amazing garments. The quality is unreal. But there's also vintage shops and, and warehouses where you— I mean, I can get hold of 100 pairs of vintage Levi's tomorrow. Trucker jackets, jeans, twisted jeans, whatever you want. You— there are people that, that deal with that in the industry, and you can get a hold of them. So we— when I was mentoring these young startup brands, I was introducing them to investors, and all of these guys were like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, they're great, they're great. Why don't you do another brand? I used to love All Saints, I used to love Reiss. I— you've dressed me all your life. Why don't you do another brand? I'm like, the last thing the world needs is another clothing brand. And, and they were like, well, I love what you're wearing. And I would have something like this on, which is— this is actually vintage Vietnam War era US Army jacket. And I studied— I added these studs on and things like that. They were like, I've never seen a jacket like that in my life. That is amazing. Why don't we do things like that? I went away and I thought, after about 5 or 6 people had a, you know, the same thing— investors, like, I would invest, you know, why don't you do another brand? I thought, what about a clothing brand that doesn't produce any clothes? And, and I came back to them and they were like, sounds amazing, I'm in. What do you mean? And, and then I would explain that, you know, we, we're going to take existing clothes and we're going to add something to them. So we, we get patches made, or we find vintage patches, and we get studs, or we hand paint them, or we, um, you know, we, we screen print them, or we, we do things to the garments to make them more interesting. And I put a Stuart Trevor label in the back. I've got a an ST Stewart Trevor logo that we put on the outside, and they have a little tailor's tag that we put on each garment. We zigzag stitch in red, and I sign it and date it and number it. If you're the model, the model would be Peter Wood, and you would buy it. And the idea came from my daughter. She, she was saying, God, if Vivienne Westwood and Malcolm McLaren had signed and dated the garments they produced back in the early days of punk, the Seditionaries, in late '70s, '79, those garments would be worth £2 million. They're worth about £10 grand as it is, t-shirts from that period, but they would be worth £1 million. So we thought, if we make and sign these garments, it's almost like a walking work of art sort of thing. So, and then I had the idea, what about getting artists to paint on the clothing? So we, we had one that came along and he started painting bits and bobs, and now he's, he's basically based in my studio full-time, and we have other artists coming in, and we— and people can customize things to order, and it's, it's interesting.

So it's the, the personalization of fashion and by fashion brands, it's kind of like a lost art now. And I feel like I've seen a lot of interviews you've done that— so the reason why you sold All Saints and moved on from it was that it was going in a different direction to you. Um, but I want to go back to like the beginning of your fashion journey and your career in it, even before you applied to University of Nottingham to study there, what was your—

your—

what really got you into fashion and what sort of started developing your attitude, your own unique attitude towards it?

I've told this story a couple of times, but it's, it's, it's a fun— it's interesting story. So as a kid, I remember very clearly, 8 years old in, in Dundee in Scotland at my Auntie Joyce's house in Broughty Ferry, hearing David Bowie on the stereo on big old teak stereogram sideboard sort of thing and going over and listening to the words and just being transfixed, like the, the otherworldly lyrics. Um, and I asked my mum, a little Scottish boy, 'Mum, who's David Bowie?' And, and she's like, 'Oh, you know, you'll have to watch him on Top of the Pops.' So we went and watched it on the Thursday, and I was like— I remember seeing him and he had a pair of red boots on, and I drove my mum insane to get me a pair of red boots, and she bought them. I don't know how, because she had— we had no money. We were, you know, single parent, 4 kids, council estate in Dundee. We, we— she saved up and bought me some red boots. And I only know this because my siblings took the piss out of me all my life because I've used to polish them and sleep with them under my pillow at night. I was like, you know, I wanted to be David Bowie. And, and in those days, a lot of people in Scotland in those days, the only time they ever got any clothes was, was when you, you'd get hand-me-downs from relatives or friends in my mom's church. They would send over a suitcase full of clothes that their kids no longer wore or whatever. And I remember picking out trousers, and there was a pair of, um, Bay City roller trousers that have like tartan down the side. And I was like, Mom, Mom, can I— can you— you know, and I'm a little tiny kid. And so she said, oh yeah. So she taught me to sew, to alter clothes and customize things. And I, I learned you know, how to, how to sew at a really young age and, and used to customize, you know, vintage things, or, you know, charity shops, jumble sales, all that sort of thing. That, that was where we used to find things. And I would— I remember having a suit that was like, must have fitted some enormous great big Laurel and Hardy character or whatever, and I took it in like, you know, it obviously the shoulders would have been big, but I made it all really slim in the trousers. I put pleats in them like David Bowie had, and, and I would recreate these sort of things. So that, that was That was even way before I knew you could do fashion as a career. And I, I went, I, I did, I did, um, really well at school. I ended up, my mother moved to South London, married my stepfather when I was 11, and that's why I have no Scottish accent. Um, you know, moving to London, a little boy, everyone laughing at this Scottish accent thing. And so I, I don't remember losing the Scottish accent, but anyway I, um, I ended up doing really well at maths and physics and art. And I was in school every day. I would be in the art club. On a Monday it would be printmaking, on a Tuesday it'd be life drawing, on a Wednesday it would be metalwork or woodwork, on a Thursday would be, um, printmaking again. And I would— I was obsessed with it. And the careers advice was you, you you should be an architect. So I went and applied to college to go and do A-level maths, A-level physics, A-level art. And I, and I started at college, um, in Kettering in Northampton. I went to live with my sister up in the Midlands because I'd fallen out with my mom and dad. They had— 15-year-old, 16-year-old kid, no alcohol, no premarital sex, the only two things I'm interested in. And, and so I left home at, at that age and went to live with my sister. And, um, I, uh, I ended up at college. I woke up in the morning, 6 in the morning, and I'd bleached my hair and I'd pierced my nose like the week I left school and I moved in with my sister. And the roots had come through. So this, this was in June or whatever. And in September, the roots were about, you know, 2 inches. So I woke up about 6 in the morning on the day I started college and I dyed my hair burgundy with a burgundy crazy color. And, and about 7 o'clock, I thought I better dry my hair and it's bright fuchsia pink. And I was like, oh my God, what am I going to do? I was like, you know, this was in the days before beanies or anything like that. No, you know, they didn't exist. So I had to— I just got some Bryl cream and, and slicked my hair back. Um, and but it was fuchsia, bright fuchsia pink. And I, and I got dressed and I went and hitchhiked to college. And I remember thinking, I never know who's going to pick me up. And I stuck my thumb out in two cars, like handbrake turn into Leybourne. I had to argue with a Golf the driver of the Golf as to why I wanted to get in the Beetle. He's going, 'Get in with me.' And I'm like, 'No, I'm gonna get in.' I've never been in a Beetle. He's like— and I got in the car and I was like, 'Why, why did you stop?' Like, you know, and they're like, 'Are you joking? You look like a rock star, man. There's no way we're letting— you know, we want to hear your story.' Anyway, so I get to cut— I'm 16, so nervous, and, and, and I'm walking in, uh, first of all, Art Foundation So that was fine. Everybody in there was, was, you know, kind of cool. But then I did, uh, A-level, um, maths and then A-level fit, and I sat there looking at the board thinking, I have no idea what they're talking about. My life is over. I'm, I am fucked. I don't know what I'm gonna do. There's no way I can do an art— a maths and physics A-level. It's all algebra.

And I was just, I was gonna, I was gonna say that I think There's a big problem nowadays of people not really knowing what they want to do at a younger age, but you've always known who you are and what you want to do, and there's different sort of struggles that come with that. What would you say, like, has— were the main struggles in those early days of, like, really keeping hold of that love for fashion and trying to make a career out of it?

Well, I didn't even know you could do it as a career. I didn't— nobody back in those days, you know, remember, there's no internet, no There's nothing. And even the school careers teacher didn't know you could— no one thought for one second that fashion or, you know, designer or whatever, that that world existed. And, and until that, the day that I'm, you know, at college— so I went to lunch and I sat down at a table and this guy comes over, looks like Robert Smith from The Cure, hair up there, makeup on. He's like, can I sit with you? And I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm sitting there thinking, my life's over, what am I going to do? I don't know what— I've really messed up here. He's like, He said, what band are you in? I said, I'm not in a band. He went, you must be, you look like a rock star, you know. Um, and some girl comes over, she looked like Alana Curry from the Thompson Twins, she'd shaved hair with a bit of a Mohican. She's like, what, what band are you in? Can I sit with you? What band do you— and I'm not in a band. She's like, you look like a rock god, are you on the fashion course? And I'm like, what's that? She's, come with me, come with me. So we walk up the corridor and we walk into this fashion course. I walk in, there's sewing machines, pattern cutting tables, mannequins, 30 beautiful girls. The teacher— I'm straight over to her, I'm like, this is— I need to be in this room. I'm, I'm— and she's like, I'm sorry, you'll have to come back next year, you're too late. This is the first day of the year. And I'm like, no, miss, honestly, you don't understand, I'm born to be in this room. And the, the girl says, miss, take a look at him, he, you know, are you mad? She went, 'Can you even sew?' And I went, 'Uh, yeah, I can.' And she went, 'Can you?' She gave me this 5 stages of a pocket and a bit of fabric and a pattern and said, 'If you can make a pocket by the end of the day, I'll consider it.' And I made the pocket in 5 minutes and I brought it back to her and she went, 'You are miles ahead of everyone else. You can start tomorrow.' That's how I got involved in the fashion business.

And the, the beginning of your career and actually going on to join Reece and going to study it more, more formally at Nottingham, like you said, it didn't feel like something you could just go and do as a career. What, what do you think, um, what do you think really like made you excel in those beginning stages and actually like standing out to brands like Paul Smith or Reece?

I, I mean, I worked really hard. I mean, people I don't know, when I look back on it now, I was in college at 9, at uni. I ended up— well, even when I was at— when I got on that fashion course, I was there till 10 o'clock every night. I was doing a tailoring course in the evening, um, City and Guilds Royal Huntsman tailor. I was obsessed with it, and, and I was very creative, and I used to think outside the box. I would look at what did other people— what did nobody else do? So I would turn garments inside out and take the outside and the inside and put it on the outside. And I, you know, came up with things that no one else had ever done. I put— I took the Levi's jacket, trucker jacket pockets, and I put it on the outside of a suit. Um, or I made a, um, you know, a blazer that looked more like a shirt sort of thing. I, I played around with different things all the time. Um, and I, in my mind, I wasn't deliberately— I, I just don't want to look like that, everybody else. So I want to, I want to look like David Bowie. I want to reconstruct everything. And in my mind, I— but I also don't want to look like a clown. So it's kind of subtle. It's not— I mean, although it's a bit over the top what I'm wearing today, but I'm not usually— I'm a bit more, um, because it's not conservative. In my mind, I'm conservative. Other people go like, wow, look at you. But, um, just playing around with things. And, and so, yeah, Paul Smith, I, I, those turning inside out, he— I, I did a Paul Smith competition, he loved it, he offered me a job as an intern. Uh, I did, um, the same sort of principle, I did a suit for the Smirnoff Fashion Awards, and it was on stage at the Royal Albert Hall, and I won menswear day. It was presented by Vivienne Westwood, um, it was televised, and David Rees rang the college about 14 times. And the dean— and I, I wasn't interested because I was— I've been offered a job with Paul Smith, and that was the main reason I went to Nottingham, was to meet Paul Smith. I thought, if I ever meet this guy, that's great, I'll get a job with him or whatever. And I, I would, you know, he was Britain's foremost menswear designer or whatever. Um, and the head of the uni demanded that I call David Rhys back, and, and, and I was like, why? And he's like, because you represent the university, you have to you know, go and, you know, and he made me go and see him, um, and so I did. And when I went to see him, I, I, I arrived, he paid for my train ticket from Nottingham. I thought I'd get at least to get a trip to London. And, um, and I went to the shop on the King's Road. You've never seen a shop like it. There must have been 100 people in there buying, buying stuff, queuing up. But this was, you know, you don't get retail like that now. Is this is like the hottest store on the King's Road. And I went upstairs and I sat with David Rees and I showed him these suits that I'd made for the Paul Smith Montblanc competition and the Smirnoff Fashion Awards. And he was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I know you're, you're brilliant, I don't need to look at them. Just— and he handed me an envelope. He said, I just want you to come and work with me. And he handed me an envelope, and I opened the envelope, and there's £500 in £50 notes. I don't think I'd ever seen a £50 note. I'm like— and, and there's an airplane, airplane. And I'm like, what's this? And he, he said, I'm going to Italy next week, and you're coming with me. It's Pittiuomo, the world's number one menswear fair, and it's in Prince in Italy, and you're going to stay at the best hotels in the world, and we're going to eat in the best restaurants in the world, and you're going to go shopping in the best designer stores in the world, and you're going to go to the number one menswear— the best menswear fair in the world, and we're going to go to the best fabric mills in the world, and you're gonna— we're then gonna go to my factory, and you're gonna design stuff, and they're gonna make it, and they'll be downstairs in the shop in a month, like that. And I was just sitting there, and all I could think was, what am I going to tell Paul Smith? And he goes, and the best thing is you don't have to tell Paul Smith like that. And I went, actually, he's right, I don't know. And I looked at the money and I looked and I thought, oh, fuck it, I'll go. So I went to Italy with him, uh, David Rees, and, um, and I got on the plane and he said to me on the plane, he goes, what's the, what's the big look for next winter? And you know, I, I remember it being like a television note, you know, the movie where everything goes like that. I was like, shit. I've got no idea. This guy's gonna find me out. I'm a fraud, like, you know. So I just described what an external tutor that used to come into the college wore, because he was like— in my mind, he looked really cool. He had a pair of trousers with little zips in at the ankle, a pair of monkey boots with big chunky soles. He had like a hoodie, and I had to describe a hoodie. And this is 1985. The hoodie didn't exist. It's the number one best-selling garment in the world now, but back in those days A hoodie didn't exist, and I had to explain to David Rhys, it's like a cardigan, it's like knitwear, but it's a, it's like, but a cardigan with a zip and a hood, like an anorak with little strings, but it's not made out of knitwear, it's made out of sweatshirt, but it has ribbed knitwear sort of cuffs and a little pocket on the front like a kangaroo. But I'm trying to, and he's like, oh, sounds good, it sounds, it sounds interesting. We didn't know, you know, hoodies didn't exist. And, and little Macs with a shirt collar, like, you know, like a shirt collar Mac with a, with a patch put in it. So we arrived in Florence, um, he went up, he said, I'm just going to go up to my room, wait for me here. So I'm in the courtyard wandering around the courtyard thinking, well, at least I got a trip to Italy. It's good, this guy's gonna realize I'm an idiot, I've got no idea what I'm doing. And then we went around all the best designer stores in, in Florence, and, and all the latest collections from Dries van Noten and Raf Simons and, and Ander Mullermuisser, Dirk Bickenbergs, and Gaultier, they were all in the windows because they, they bring them in early to show what the big look is. And it was all hoodies and Macs, and, and I was like, baseball cap with numbers. There was like baseball caps at NY, it was the New York Mets or whatever, and, and, and chunky monkey boots and trousers with zips in. And David Rhys was like, what? This, he's buying all this stuff. And now I'm wandering around Florence with bags full of designer gear. I'd never been abroad in my life, never been in a designer shop in my life. I'd only been down to King's Road a couple of times going to places like Johnson's or Rocket or, you know, um, I'd never— all of this was like another world. And we went back to the hotel and we went up to his room. He had a penthouse suite with a courtyard overlooking the Duomo. And I'm outside and the sun's shining. I'm thinking, this is great, you know, the guy, he's happy, seems happy. I think I've got away with it. And he's on the phone, Dan, you know, 2 bottles of champagne and some of them little nibbles. And you bring them in, and he goes, one minute, I'm just gonna call the office, you don't mind, do you? And I'm like, no, no, no, no, he's ringing. He goes, the boy's a genius, he's unreal, he's got everything right, he's got every— he knew all the latest looks, he's unreal, this kid. Puts up in his, like, champagne, and we're like—

but this opportunity that you gave yourself, I bet you've seen, like, loads of talented people within the world of fashion that probably haven't gone on to have the career that you've had. You put a lot of that down to just working harder than anyone else, or what else do you think about yourself made you stand out and get that opportunity?

I have quite severe ADHD, probably. I never realized until recently. My daughter asked to get diagnosis because she thought she was going mad or whatever. And the doctor was— we went to see a mental health, you know, CAMHS, and, uh, and they gave me the form and I looked at the form and I'm like, this is a joke. Every, every single question is like, you know, do you find it difficult to concentrate unless you're obsessed with the subject? And I'm like, absolutely, 100%, all the time. And I'm like, every single, every single question is an absolutely, 100%, all of the time. And they went mate, you've got severe ADHD. And I'm like, no, anybody could have it, they just have to— and they went, why would anybody— why would anybody want to be diagnosed with ADHD if they didn't have it? You— it's only because you've got it you would even ask that question. One of the things about ADHD, you have a lot of empathy, so you want people to like you, you want people to love you, you, you want to be a nice person, you care about everybody else, what they think. You know, not just about what they think about me, but, you know, you want to— you're a people pleaser. And I always want— wanted to, to do something that other people would enjoy. Um, and so I would analyze— I'd look at what other people are wearing and thinking I could do something like that, or, or interesting, or, or a version of. Or— and I had— I always had a very good taste level of— and, and quality. Always wanted to have the best quality. Even when I was a kid, when we had no money, I would, you know, you know, we would look through the Littlewoods catalog and you'd see— my mum would say, well, I'll get you a pair of the Littlewoods own label jeans. I'm like, oh, there's no way I'm wearing them. I would go berry picking, washing cars, mowing lawns, anything to get enough money to buy a pair of Levi's. And, and, and I thought, when I'm rich, I'm going to have a trucker jacket and a pair of Levi's, and I'm going to have Dr. Martens boots. I always wanted quality, so I had a very inbuilt sense of style or whatever, I don't know. And I, um, I always just tried my hardest to be the best. I, I think I mentioned this to you earlier, that in my mind, the people that are the most successful are the ones that work hardest when no one else is looking. And I used to work— I would work from 9 in the morning till 9 o'clock at night. They used to kick me out at Nottingham Trent one night. I've got the, the I've gone back there to teach there recently, and they were laughing because some of the tutors and the technicians are still there. They're like, you know, you're— you've gone down in history. You're the only person who ever slept overnight in Union. I think it was when I was doing my final collection, because the security guards used to come around about 9 or 10, turn the lights off and make— kick everybody out. Well, I hid in the stockroom because I thought, there's no way I'm not going to get finished. I just want to carry on. And I I pulled an all-nighter. As soon as they left, I was back on the machine sewing. And, and, and, and it's kind of— sometimes, you know, and I would— and, and, you know, I would work all hours. And, and I mean, I'm like that now. I wake up in the middle of the night, oh my God, I have to do this, and I'll go off and do it and then go back to bed or whatever.

Is it— someone's listened to this thinking like they can relate to you a lot, and but nothing seems to be working out in their career, or like going their way. What, what's— what would you say, obviously building All Saints, and you know, that there's a difference between just like having that sort of, uh, obsessive mindset and needing to get stuff done and being very creative and actually going on to produce something and produce a brand that is, you know, had impact all over the world. And what would you say to somebody who feels that way but things just aren't quite clicking right now?

I never— people say to me all the time, I meet people, they go, oh my God, you're like the coolest guy in the world. You founded All Saints, you, you, you were like, you know, you're responsible for Reese, you, you've done Bollongaro, Trevor, now you've got this. I never once— I still don't ever think— I never thought I was cool while I was doing All Saints, while I was at Reese. I always wanted to be better, or— and, and so I would strive for that, and I still do now. I, I never— don't ever rest on your laurels and just kind of like think, oh well, you know, I can— whatever. I mean, I think I obviously know that I have a talent or whatever, but I never think I'm successful enough, or I always want to be— I want more people to like. I always think, you know, that whatever I did, even with All Saints, or, you know, I never— I just think there's more. I mean, I remember him asking me at one point, the guy who bought it from me, 'How big do you think All Saints could be?' And I'm like, 'Bigger than Virgin.' And he laughed at me and he like said, 'Don't be ridiculous.' And I'm like, 'Why? What do you mean? What's ridiculous about that? We could do vodka, we could do cola, we could do life insurance, we could do airplanes, we could do whatever we— it's, you know, we can— there's no limit to what we can do.' Um, I, at that point as well, I came up with the idea that I wanted to do a members club where people pay £20 a month or £10 a month or whatever, a bit like a phone, and, and they get exclusive access to, you know, private parties or, uh, clothes that no one else has access to. All these sort of things. But, you know, I don't know, I, I just always— I'm always trying to be better and thinking about where I can go now.

And what about the people you try to, to work with and surround yourself? Are they similar to you and similar style of working, or do they sort of enhance bits about you that you might not have?

I need people, I'm, I need people that are really organized to work with me. So I, you know, quite often that's very important that you have someone that, you know, counterbalances what I have. I have a, you know, I, I, I, uh, it's really good to have. So it's quite, you often meet people that are very numbers focused and they're like, oh, I'm so boring compared to you. And I'm like, I need you. I need someone like you. Um, and, and I have lots of interns now. I always— it's kind of weird. I think in January, February this year, I had about 6 different interns contacting me, and I'm looking at it thinking, how can I— am I going to manage all these different people? But so I just— but I'm a yes person. I always, whenever anyone asks me, can I do something, I'm like, yeah, go on then. Yeah. And they write in and they come in, and I try and work out what they're good at. And sometimes they're numbers people, sometimes they're creative. The creative ones, I'm like, you just go away and do whatever you there's a, a bag there of a sack of old cashmere jumpers. Cut them up and, and, and make a dress out of them and do something interesting. So one girl goes off and does that. Someone else is— wants to be a photographer. I'm like, we've got a camera, we've got the lights, go and set up a shoot. Somebody else wants to be a model. I'm like, you get, get the clothes on and stand in front of that and make a backdrop. Let's create something. So, and I've ended up giving all these kids like a purpose. And, and, and the experience that I was given— I remember as an intern myself, I learned more in one week than I'd learned in one year at uni, um, because you're actually in the thick of it and you see what goes on. And I, I had a girl from the USA that's been with me for about 6 months, one day a week, uh, over in the UK. She left— Jessie, she's like, I have learned so much. From being around you. I always, I always think sometimes I don't offer them enough, but actually when you're there and you see how it works and what's going on, it obviously, it's, it's really inspiring.

So what do you think, uh, they're doing? What's a great case study of someone who's really making the most of it? What does that actually look like? Because I feel like one of the hardest things with students at the moment is like, how do you stand out in this job market? How do you actually make the most opportunities? How do you get your foot in the door? But what are the— what's— what people doing, doing right when it comes to working with you?

Just say yes, you know, if whatever anyone asks you, just say, yep, I'll do that. Don't worry. I mean, I always say this as well with this, all my time at All Saints and recent, if I had assistants, don't be scared of making a mistake. Don't worry about looking stupid. I came up with some really— I remember at the time coming up with a studded belt with Jesus Loves You written on it. I'd seen a photographer, uh, in Milan Linate Airport with a denim jacket with Jesus Loves You hand-painted on it. And I went over and I asked him, where did you get that jacket? It turns out it was Albert Watson. He'd just been shooting Armani in the desert in California, and he'd found it in a thrift store. And I just thought, can you imagine pulling that out of a rack and going, Jesus Loves You? Somebody really, really believed that Jesus loves you and wrote that on the jacket. It just looked so cool. I did a whole range of Jesus Loves You, and I thought it was kind of— people used to ask me, 'Why Jesus loves you?' And I would look at them and go, 'Because he really does.' Yeah, but it was kind of like a— I'm not— to me it was an oxymoron. I'm not deeply religious. I had a very strict religious Mormon upbringing, but I moved away from all that. But I, I realized that— I remember actually the guy that— some people, friends of mine— the guy that bought All Saints from me, he was like, 'We've got to remove all the religious iconography, you know, the Muslims won't like it.' I'm like, 'You joking?' It's Birmingham and Manchester and all— it's all the Muslims buying Jesus Loves You belts and t-shirts and things like that. They, you know, it, it's, it's, it was a fun thing. But I remember thinking when I first came out with it that people are going to laugh at this, they're going to think it's stupid. But it turned out to be a multi-million pound deal, you know, that they— people love it. And quite often this— the weirdest ideas can turn into the biggest success.

So you think whether you're the creative or you're the numbers guy or the organized person, curiosity is a must no matter what you're doing, right? Like, that, that's something that needs to be there.

Yeah, you just, you know, throw enough mud at the wall and some of it will stick. And, and so you need to experiment and try things and then work out, you know, quite often you, you know, can come up with an idea and you put it out then and no one likes it. I think to me, a lot of people call me all the time and ask me, can I get some advice off you? I want to do a Basics line. And all. And I, and I look at them and I'm like, there's no point in doing that, you know. There's huge— if anybody wants a really nice quality basic t-shirt, they, they already exist. So what you need to do is have a, a USP, a unique sense of, of purpose, you know. Like, um, you need to come up with something that no one else is doing. And it could be, I don't know, with All Saints, I remember finding a factory that made really really great leather jackets, and, and it was in India, and, and it was at a good price. And I, I thought, I can retail these for about £300. If you could sell a leather jacket at £295, you know, you'll sell them all day long. But, but they— the first samples that came through were— they weren't great, they were kind of stiff. So I put them in the washing machine and I went home, and I, you know, came in the next day, took them out and hung them like twisted them up and hung them up to dry. We went home for the weekend, and when we came in on Monday, we tried these on and they were like, wow. But they were a little bit stiff, so I got another one and I put it in the washing machine with some olive oil. And we took it out and we dried it. A couple of days later, we, we realized we could get really beautiful soft handle with that washed look. And we created these sort of leather jackets, and we put them out at £300. And of course, it turned into a multi, multi-million pound deal. I mean, it's experimenting and coming up with something and finding out what, what's, what is, what does everybody want right now? How can I make it slightly different than everybody else? That, that we are going to create the best leather jacket in the world or the best t-shirt in the world. So I, you know, the Ram's Skull logo, like, we, you know, we came up with that, we put it on a t-shirt, we had no idea. My God. I mean, All Saints is a £300-400 million company. 70% of it is a t-shirt with a ram's skull. The amount of guys I meet that come up to me and go, 'My God, I've got 3 kids because of you,' and I'm like, 'What's going on?' They went, 'I bought a ram's skull t-shirt from All Saints and I wore it to my local pub, and the girl that runs it came over and grabbed hold of me and gave me a big kiss, and I've ended up married to her and I've got 3 kids.' And I'm like, 'Oh, have you still got that t-shirt?' Because I went out and bought 10 the next day. And that, because it, it's, it's funny, but that t-shirt is a— it's almost like people tell me all the time, to them it's like it's, it's just a t-shirt, but that little ram's skull, it— everyone is aware that you're not Ted Baker, or you're not Gap, or you're not Primark, or Uniqlo, or whatever. You've got a sense of style, or there's something a bit more interesting about you. So, you know, but who would have thought that that one little logo could transform the world. It's kind of unreal. The idea for the Ram's Skull came up with as well. People ask me this all the time. So I did a polo— I was asked to do a polo shirt. I don't like polo shirts. I think the guys that wear polo shirts are a bit like, you know, office sort of like job type, or, you know, it's kind of like— I never ever thought of it that way, but I've read someone said to me recently that they'd gone to Germany and they couldn't get into Berghain And a friend of mine said, were you wearing a polo shirt? And he went, uh, yeah, why? And he went, that's why you never got in, because, you know, cool people don't wear polo shirts. But I got asked to do a polo shirt, and I put a skull and crossbones on it, and we released it. And it— and in All Saints, this is back in 19— no, 2005 or something, and they sold out. Everyone loved them. But then Hugo Boss copied it. He did a polo shirt with a skull, and I was like I've got to come up with something that no one else is going to do. I know, I'll do something satanic. I'll do like a, like a— what's, what's kind of rock and roll pirate punk rock? I'll do a, a ram skull, like goat's head suit, Rolling Stones. So we did, and I had lots of taxidermy and I had some ram skulls, so we just came up with a ram skull. We put it on a t-shirt. My God, here we are 20 years later and that is still the best-selling garment every single day in, in All Saints.

And the future of fashion and careers in fashion, I think you speak a lot online about, you know, how can we stop fast fashion. Um, I think for someone who's about to, you know, embark on that career in fashion, what would be your message to them and how they can actually make a change to, uh, yeah, to stop fast fashion?

I talk about this a lot because the problem is with fast fashion, when I was preparing a deck for Stuart Trevor to show to these investors. I wrote, I wrote down some of the statistics that have come out. This was about a year ago, it's probably double, double the issue. Um, every 7 minutes there's a pile of clothes the height of Mount Everest going into landfill. It's probably every 7 seconds now because the problem is people buy, you know, we're— every— you get on the tube now, no one's reading the paper, they're all looking at their phone, and every second or third post on Instagram or Facebook, whatever it is, or, or Google, whatever, there's someone advertising. There's these huge billion-dollar businesses and they're, they're brainwashing you into believing that you don't have enough and that you need to go out and buy 2 t-shirts for a tenner or whatever. Uh, and, and you go and buy them and then you get home and you realize you haven't got any room in your cupboards. You, you, you, I've already got about 30 t-shirts, what am I doing? And then people end up wearing them a couple of times, they wash them, they're cheaply made, they fall a bit. Clothes are not nowhere near the quality that they used to be 10, 20 years ago. Everywhere they make them out of really cheap short staple cotton fiber that, that, you know, the seams come out, you know, it's just, it's just— and then there's tons and tons of polyester. So they're all— there's a lot of greenwashing going on. There's all these windows of the— in— and they're like, we're We've got 2,900 factories in, uh, farms in India that we've taught them how to produce organic cotton. These farms are the size of this room. They're like, you know, someone's garden. And, and, and 99.9% of what's behind that window is made out of polyester. And the only reason they use polyester is not because it wicks the sweat away. All these sports companies that go on about polyester wicks the sweat, it doesn't wick the sweat away. It's cheap. That's the only reason that they use it. They buy a polo shirt made of polyester for a pound and sell it to you for £10 or whatever. They need to— we need to move away from plastic. I mean, you wouldn't wear a plastic bag, would you? Your skin is the largest organ on your body, and people, you know, you, you wouldn't— you wouldn't wear polyester underpants, would you? There's no way. You, you know, you'd be infertile. Why would you wear a polyester shirt or polo shirt or whatever, you know. It's, it's mental. It's like processed food. We, we, we're all beginning to realize now that the reason obesity is a huge epidemic is everyone's eating processed shit. We were told for years margarine's better than butter. Margarine is plastic. It's, it's, it's all crap. And we're being fed and clothed by billionaire, for, you know, billionaire companies, corporations, and, and we're being brainwashed into buying all this crap. That's not only is it killing us, it's killing the planet. The, the— all this mountains of crap going into landfill, we need to stop it. So we need to, you know, ask your mates, have you got anything that you don't wear anymore? Do you want to do a swap? Or, you know, just— or, or your mum and dad, or your brothers and sisters, or, you know, just— we don't need more of the same crap. I mean, I know I haven't— I now have a clothing company company, but it is a clothing company that doesn't produce any clothes. And we are online telling you, you know, go come and shop at Stuart Trevor, but what we're doing is we're reusing, repurposing existing stuff rather than producing, you know, millions of, of new items. Um, so, you know, I think it's important that people realize we've got to stop. And I, I don't want to put Primark or Uniqlo or, or anybody out of business, but It would be good if they didn't produce 99.9% of their products in plastic and polyester. Be great if they used organic cotton.

And so my final question to you, which I ask every single one of my guests, is when you first started off on your career journey, might have had a certain idea of what success would go on to look like, but fast forward everything you've learned and achieved along the way, what is your definition of success and how has it changed?

I, I I— it's difficult for me. I mean, I always wanted to create the world's greatest rock and roll brand, um, because of my love for David Bowie, and I'm still on that mission. And I think we might just do that with Stuart Trevor. So you should check out StuartTrevor.com and follow us on Instagram at Stuart Trevor Official and, and see what it is we're doing. And, and, uh, I, I reckon you'll like it.

Absolutely. Sure. Thanks for coming on.

Thanks.