Blue is New White: Solve Trades Hiring Issues With Jeff Bond

Welcome back to the show. I'm your host, Phil Risher. And on today's episode we have Jeff Bond with us who is literally solving the number one problem business owners have and that's finding great people. Jeff and I, we actually got connected through Danielle, who's recently on our show. And he's in the trades. He's been in the trades. He's suffered a lot of the same problems that we've all been through. And so Jeff, thanks so much for joining us today, man.

Thanks, Phil. Thanks for having me, man. I appreciate it.

Yeah, absolutely. So can you give us a little bit of background? You, you were a former teacher who got into the trades and, and now you own an H VAC contractor business. But tell us a little about how you got to this point.

Sure, you're exactly right. So I taught high school here in Texas where we're located. Taught actually agricultural sciences and natural resource management, but was kind of lumped in with the current technology guys. We were, I was at a very large school district, so we had a huge CTE department. So we did things like agricultural education, but we also did welding and woodworking and engineering and CNC and all the things that kind of run with that kind of botech stuff. So fast forward a few years, I, you know, you kind of get into something that you thought you were supposed to be in and realize it's not the calling you, you, you thought it was. So I got out, got into sales and ended up getting recruited to become the general manager of a small mechanical contracting company here where I live. And small family owned company, been around since 1997. Came in and was able to run that for a few years. And then in 2018 we had myself and a business partner had the opportunity to begin purchasing that business. So we purchased a third of the business in 2018 and closed the sale in 2019. And in doing so we rebranded, kind of did some, you know, brought it from a company that was a small family owned company that was started years ago that still did paper tickets and some of the things like that that we wanted to really keep the integrity of the business and client base of the business and the reputation of the business, but also wanted to make it our own. So it's kind of taking, taking what you have and then molding it into what your vision is. So, you know, that's when we, like I said, we rebranded and renamed. We went to tablets and joined a field service software company to, you know, kind of get away from the ticket side of it, paper ticket side and just kind of made it, like I said, made it our own. And it was a great journey. It's a lot of fun. You know, we still, I still own that company with my business partner today. And you know, we're doing well. We're a small H vac company. We do primarily residential and light commercial. And the kind of the service repair model we do, you know, we're kind of in that 1.6 to 1.8 is what we finished out. 1.8 is what we finished out in 23. So we're kind of right there in that, in that small but growing group. So yeah, that's where I am on that side.

Yeah. That's awesome. Can you tell me a little bit about the product? So a lot of the business owners that listen to this show, they're looking at what's my exit plan?

Sure.

Am I going to get a PE company that comes in and gives me tons of money? Is it going to be someone internally that comes together and buys me out? How did that discussion come up and that process come up with your company?

Well, man, I tell you what, that, you know, that PE route is becoming extremely popular. You know, there are a lot of companies, VC and PE companies going around and buying up small home service companies. And we know that's the way things are going. Ours started just through some conversations with the current owners. So it had had kind of a transition of there was a father and son team that had invested some money into the company because the original owner was getting sick. He had had cancer. So that's one of the reasons they hired me to come in. A couple of years into the, into this, they, we had a meeting and kind of discussed that. It didn't really fit the mold of the companies that they were investing in. They primarily invested into, into healthcare model type businesses because it was more of a, an offering through a church member that they got with this guy. So it was just kind of like, well, this doesn't fit your model. You know, you're, you kind of see how we are running it as our own. What does a purchase look like? And it's just a lot of back and forth, a lot of negotiation because you know, you're taking on this business, but then you're taking on the debt. And what does that look like and what does the payout look like? Because, you know, we didn't have the money to pay it. We were able to pay a third of the purchase price up front by scraping up the money. But then it's more, you know, but then we, we set it out on payments just like you do with a lot of this stuff. So that's the way ours went. We did purchase another small contracting company a couple of years ago from one of our competitors. It was a small father and son team and that relationship started through one of our distributors. We had mentioned to one of our sales guys that hey, if there's anyone in our area that you're. That you know is looking, that's very small, that's looking to get out of the game, we're interested in talking to them. So kind of been on both sides of it.

Yeah, that, that's pretty cool because I think a lot of times, you know, yeah, you're buying the business, but the service contracts, the reputation. Right, all of those things. So there is a long term play. It's not just like buying their equipment or something like that.

Exactly. Yeah. You know, I was just to touch on one more thing. You know, I think ideally or not ideally, I don't know, I think a really cool way is where you can have that kind of key employee, that key team member that you've brought up through the ranks or that's worked for you and set up an opportunity for them to possibly buy out. You know, because you know, we find that generational wealth begins in business ownership. You know, we can all work for somebody else and there are a few people that can, that will do really, really well. But if you want to get into generational wealth type stuff, it comes through business ownership. So helping, helping people get to that is a great opportunity.

Yeah, I agree. And so you bought this company with you and a partner, correct? That's right. And you are running GM but primarily on the sales side and the partner, are they more production side or so?

Exactly. So, so John, John is my business partner. I grew up, his wife and I grew up together. Our parents were best friends. None of this, he was born, he was working for a, a large kind of distributor of nuts, bolts, that kind of stuff and was just ready to kind of get out and do something different. His actually degree is in economics. He's very vendor, very finance focused. And it's not, it's not the part that I love. I love talking to people and networking and selling and being that kind of guy, the face and the person of the business. So whenever John came on board, we actually he moved into the GM management, took over the financials and the vendor and the GM side. I took over sales and marketing and that's what really helped push us out because I mean Know what you know your role, know what you do well, but know what you don't do well and plug people into those parts of your business to succeed. Right. Because I love, you know, I love sitting to just get here and talk to you and, and you know, I love being involved in our community and all the different groups and things that we do and to help sell where, you know, that's not where John likes to be. That's not his part. You know, he, he likes to be in the shop. He likes to be looking at numbers and spreadsheets and talking to vendors and you know, and that's great because I don't like that at all.

That's right.

And.

And so you obviously have a pretty good team because the business is humming, humming along. And then you lost the key employee.

I did.

And that's how you came to all started. Yes. Now it's unraveling a little bit of like, oh my gosh. Because you, I mean, you know, H vac. But you've not, you're not a technician by any means.

Not at all.

And John, he's not a technician by any means.

Nope. We're animal.

Yeah. You lose your top guy.

Yep. And you're like, oh yeah, it was terrible, man. So we do, we have a great team. Our office, our office manager has been with us for six or seven years. She's fantastic. And we did, we had a key employee. And you're right, it's really hard to be at the level of business where we're at, which you've got a lot of people I think that listen. That are kind of in that role of, you know. Yes. Your owner, you've got two to three techs, you've got an install team. But if something happens and a truck goes down or a guy's out sick, a lot of these owners can jump in the truck and take off and run those service calls for the day. We couldn't do that. That's not what we were. So we were kind of in a unique place that we really had to build great teams. Right? Yeah. And we did. We had a guy that started with us as a helper. He'd worked up into installs, he'd gone into service and then he just kind of became our, you know, he was head service, but ran anything we needed to run. You know, we, you know, worked very, very hard. Worked very hard to take care of our team members. And he came in one day and you know, we're talking, he said, hey, my, my brother in laws are starting a Construction company. We had helped him get his, his license, his master license here in Texas. And he said they want to open up an H vac side. And they asked me if I'd come do it for him. And, you know, you train and educate and help your team members not in hopes that they go somewhere else, but in the fear that if I don't train them and educate them that they'll stay. You know what I mean?

Yes.

So he, you shake hands and you wish each other the best of luck, and off he went. And then, you know, you kind of look at each other and you're like, well, hell, what do we do now? I think we think we're screwed. And. And it just happened to be. So we start running ads on the large job boards. We're paying tons of cash because we need someone that's very high level and it's kind of. So we're paying to boost these posts, we're paying to run ads, all these things.

So you're like, indeed. Facebook ads, Craigslist, the normal ones that people are spending an arm and a leg on. And it's hard to find trained technicians.

It's hard to find trained technicians, especially the higher level trained technicians. I'm shaking down the supply house guys. I'm, you know, I'm calling friends. I'm like, I know of a guy looking to make a move and. And I'm not anything. We finally hire a guy, within 30 days, he had totaled the truck and lost his job. And, you know, you just kind of sit there beating your head against the wall. You're like, this is ridiculous. What am I doing? You know, know. Why is there not. Why is this not an. Why is there not an easier way? And why is it so hard to do and why is it so expensive? So that's kind of the brainchild behind it.

And you're listening to a podcast, smart guy. You hear about these niche job boards.

Yep. That was.

Yeah, go for it.

That lights the fire. So I'm driving, driving from. Driving to work one morning. And I am. I'm listening to a podcast that I listen to a couple of guys out of. Out of kind of like Silicon Valley that are. They're always talking primarily tech, but it's all about startups. How can I.

Is it my first million or who.

Is my first million? Yeah, that's exactly.

I heard you say that on another piece with something like, it's got to be my first million.

It is. Yeah.

I listen to this one too.

So. Yeah, so listen to them, you know, Love it. Listen to them. I'm driving in and the topic comes up with job boards, like, if I could start a job board, you know, it would be niche. And I start thinking, well, man, I, you know, there's not a whole lot that's super specific to us. But you know, I got, you know, buddies in oilfield and they use, you know, rigzone, of course, because that's where they go. They're not looking on Indeed. You know, I got buddies in fitness, they're using barbell. They're not going to Indeed. So it's like, why don't we not have something? And you look and there's recruiters out there, there's some services that do it, but there's no just easy to use low cost job board for H vac, plumbing, electrical. That's it. And that's all I wanted because the candidates that I was getting from like the Indeeds, even though you say, you know, five years minimum experience, got to have all these licenses, got to have all these abilities, you know, I'm getting, I'm getting, you know, resumes from people that, that have never worked at, like they live in a house that has air conditioning. So does that apply? And it's just like, I know how to move, turn my thermostat up and down. Does that work? And I'm like, why in the world am I using a job board that could hire the CEO of a company or a guy to mop bathrooms at a fast food restaurant and everything in between? So that was it. That was kind of how it started. You know, it, it evolved through, you know, writing down, what would it do? What would I want it to look like? It started with that. Then I went to, you know, friends of mine that are contractors on, hey, if there was a niche job board just for us, what would it look like? Can you ask them questions? You know, technicians. If it was a niche job board, what would it look like? You know, guys at the supply house. And then you just kind of start putting those ideas together.

Yeah. Can you tell the audience a little bit about the. This is not just like in Texas or something, right? You, you have over 40,000 some people on there now, right?

Well, yeah, over 60,000 now. So, so it does, it works all over the United States and Canada. So we wanted to start and tackle the kind of two larger North American markets first. And you know, it was, it was through a lot of mentorship and ideas, through, you know, people that I've talked to. You know, this isn't something you just build in a month and turn on. You know, this has been a process since October of 2020 to get where we are today.

That's one thing I was curious about, because, like, you're a teacher, so clearly you understand learning, and then you go into this, into sales and H vac. But then how do you know how to create a technology company?

Like, great question. You don't. You have no idea what you're. Yeah, so. So, again, I am a very firm believer of know what you do well and know what you don't do well, and then surround yourself with people that fill those gaps. So here's how kind of the process started. I start putting it all on paper. I start doing all this research on, you know, and, like, talking to people of what it looks like. I then went through a program the Small Business Administration has called the sbdc Small Business Development Council. It is a free program funded by the SBA and universities. So we happen to have a gentleman at one of the local colleges that work for the SBDC that I started setting up meetings with, and him and I started meeting every two weeks. And he was just a life changer for me. This gentleman is. He started a few different businesses on the petroleum side, one of them being a software business. He happened to have a law degree. Right. He can answer all these questions. He has access to the business school at the university where he houses and information through the sba. So when you're talking about, well, how many technicians are we actually looking at in this? And we would build all these spreadsheets and all these pro formas. And so that was kind of the jumping point. In fact, he called me two days ago and lit another light bulb on that for something else that we're going to start doing. And he just called just to check in, just to say hi. The next phase of it was I actually got the company accepted into the business incubator for the city of Fort Worth. So that was kind of the next step. Now I'm getting in and talking and having all these free resources with people that are very, very focused on entrepreneurship and business growth and mentorship, and that kind of goes to the next level. And then I found a company locally that a development company that I could work with that we just started building this thing out. It took six months to get it to a workable, viable kind of prototype. And, you know, all of you got so many business owners that listen to this and they'll know this completely. It always takes twice as long as you think and twice as much money. So Just, just so you know, I.

Was curious because a lot of times the business owners, they have ideas and then they hire someone, you know, overseas and they spend all this money, they don't know what they're doing and then they spend $30,000 and they're like, well, what, what do you have here? Like a jumbled mess of Excel spreadsheets.

That's it. That's it. And you know, and going into an industry that you don't really know a lot about because somebody is like, you know, hey man, you can start a website, get you a, you know, get you a free GoDaddy thing and build it for 100 bucks. That does not work that way, especially when it has to be as robust and work the way ours works. So get the prototype out there, get the beta version out there, start working with a lot of local companies, start working with a lot of trade schools here in the Dallas Fort Worth Metroplex, getting feedback and getting a lot of good stuff. And it kind of like, okay, this is going to work, this is the right thing. But again, I'm just bootstrapping the whole thing while I'm also trying to run another company and I have a family. So I archived the website, realized, hey, this is a good thing, but I've got to find some partners that can dump some cash into this thing and have some resources to get it going. So lots of meetings with pe, lots of meetings with VC companies and actually met some people through a relationship that owns just do software stuff for the trades for guys like in our industries. Wow. And it worked out that they're like, dude, you've got, you've got, you've got something good here that's going to help, that's going to help the trades community. Let's kind of do some partnering. And they had already had a lot of the development stuff on staff, they have a lot of marketing stuff on staff that we could offload a lot of that to their plate. And then I could focus on just running the day to day operations, doing, talking with guys like you, doing some interviews and really work on getting the website out there.

Wow, that's awesome.

It's a lot of stuff, man. It was a lot of fun. It's been a real year, but can't complain, you know. You know, John has been, you know, just, you know, a blessing. Obviously we're great business partners and great friends, but he was kind of whatever this kind of started and that opportunity came up to really put the gas on the fire with this, you know, he's like, go do it, man. You started this. You've got a great opportunity. You know, we're good over here. Do what you got to do. And, and, and so that's been a huge, a huge blessing. And you know, my wife has been a, you know, behind me the whole time and you know, it's been fun. But anyway, that's, that got us to where we were able to turn everything on in November and have been running, running ever since.

Yeah. So since November you've gotten 60,000 CSRs, technicians, managers, kind of like the whole rundown of a trades type business, right?

It is, it is. We so trade jobs. Works for anybody that works within any field of those three mechanical trades. So technicians, CSRs, installers, apprentices, anybody in between. Now I will tell you, it's very highly focused on technicians. Yeah, because that's our biggest problem. I mean those are, you know, when you're talking about bringing in an apprentice or an installer that maybe doesn't have a license that you can work with or maybe a CSR that doesn't require any type of licensing. But it's just a really smart, friendly face on the, you know, smart person friendly face. That's one thing. When we're talking about people, especially in Texas where you have to be licensed, then, then that's those, those people are just harder to find. I mean that's just life, you know, that's life. We have less people going into trade school, we have less people coming out of trade school. And then we have the, the bulk of the population of our trades people are aging out, they're aging out of the industry. So we're having these huge gaps form which makes it even harder.

Yeah. So you built this database of all these techs and people and they're in there. Some of them are actively looking, others are in there and they can get alerted if a position were up that says, hey, this fits my criteria. That kind of stuff.

That's exactly it. So to fill out your candidate profile on the site is completely free and all it is is go in there, create your candidate profile. We ask people be as, fill it out as completely as possible because you're going to want to put your work experience, your educational experience. There's places for you to put videos if you wanted to put some videos about yourself, really fill it out very much in depth. You can set your geographical range, maybe you're looking to relocate somewhere. You can set your either hour or salary range because that's going to be the biggest kickers. So whenever, because that's completely free. So whenever I go in as a company owner and you know, man, this is simple. We have three levels of subscription. You can buy the Starter, the Pro, or the Master, and you can pay monthly or annually. Like, this isn't a hard thing. And if I go in there and. And you can post as many jobs as you want. That's the biggest kickers. I can buy the starter membership. I could post a thousand jobs if I want to. The price never changes. Wow. So I can go in, create the job post that I'm looking for, and if it meets the criteria, puts it, you know, it runs it through all the algorithms, and if it meets the criteria of the candidate, either geographically, by skill set, by license, by financial, what they're looking for financially, they do, they get an alert. They're like, hey, ADC Plumbing, just put a job post on that meets the criteria that you set up. Do you want to apply? Sure. Click a button and it shoots your candidate profile straight to them. It's that. It's that easy. Wow.

I'm. I'm even thinking, like, a lot of the companies that we work with, their H vac, electrical, plumbing, and H vac specifically, let's say they're like two, three million dollars, and they want to add an electrical arm, do generators or something, or plumbing. They want to do, you know, Navient, and they're like, okay, well, how do I hire that technician and bring them in and train them? When you're, you're saying, well, why don't you just go get someone that has 10, 15 years experience at one of these big players, bring them in, pay them a little bit more, a little bit extra, give them maybe even department. They could run their own department of some sort. It's a great opportunity to be able to kind of scale your business more effectively than. Than trying to, like, shake down your shop guys.

Absolutely, absolutely. You're, you know, hanging out in the electrical aisle at Home Depot trying to, you know, kind of creeping on people, trying to recruit, you know, or adding, like you said, adding a horizontal thing. You know, maybe you've been HF forever, but you want to add duct cleaning and, you know that doesn't require a license. Right. In Texas. So I just need somebody that can do it and do it well. Well, I just can go in there and post my stuff and find someone. A lot of it too, is, I may be very, very happy where I work. I'm a happy technician. Life is going great. This company treats me well. But I know, I see the writing on the wall, though, that if I ever want to grow either by moving up the ladder or grow financially, I'm going to have to move companies. And I know that. So I go in there and I create that dollar per hour range that would make me consider moving. So I've got it out there. It's working for me. I don't even, you know, have to do anything until that job pops open. And I'm like, that's something I do need to go look at, you know, because the right opportunities there. It's working for you in the background.

Yeah, that's a really good point because that kind of sets the threshold of if I'm a business owner and I'm looking to bring someone on, well, what's it going to cost me to get a level like that? And you kind of know, instead of just going on, indeed, and they give you some random range and you're like, oh, yes, yeah, this is it.

Right? And with, you know, with our higher level of subscriptions, you can actually go in and search the database. So maybe I am looking to start that electrical arm of my business, but I'm like, man, I don't even know what, what this is going to cost me to get a guy. Right. Well, I have the right membership to trade jobs. I, I can go in and search the candidate database and I'm like, okay, this guy has experience I want, he's local, he's got. Meets all of the criteria I would look for. And it looks like it would cost me X amount per. Here's his dollar that he's looking for. And then you sit down and you think, okay, can I afford that guy? Can I afford to start this department with this person at this range? And it just, there's so much transparency. I mean, it's like, either I can or I can't, you know, that's it.

Yeah. Another thing that you mentioned back in the beginning was that you used to be on paper at the, at the H Vac company and then you switch to tablets. And I think a lot of times businesses, they're in this transition, whether it's Service Titan or Service Fusion or these other platforms, and then they have to train all these CSRs that have been with them for 20 years and so, and technicians. And so that's a part of this, I would imagine, is like, well, what technologies are you familiar with or what have you used in the past of some sort?

That's huge.

That's a huge thing, I think.

Well, it is, because you're right, you know, that learning curve of everybody's. There's lots of different options out there nowadays. Right. It's not just one or two service and dispatch softwares, it's not just one or two flat rate pricing softwares. It's not just one or two warranty companies. And now a lot of the manufacturers you're doing so many warranty returns through their website, it is, it's difficult. So being able to go on there and say that I've used Service Titan, House Call, Pro Field Edge, the new flat rate, Profit Rhino, all of these things to help me say, okay, I, you know, this person may be $3 an hour more than I'm looking to pay, but I don't have to train them, I can put them in the truck tomorrow. So that's huge. Or I don't mind training my people. I've got a great, great process and procedure set out on how I train them, how to use our, our software. So this guy doesn't have, or this girl doesn't have that on their resume. But you know, they're $5 an hour less than I'm looking to pay. So then that gives me some room to bump them up as they grow.

Yeah. What does it look like on the recruiting process that you would say maybe are some best practices? So if you reach out to someone.

Sure.

And they're at another company, do you have them come in and like do ride alongs or like what does that back and forth relationship look like? That's good, that's a positive, would you say?

Absolutely. And of course it's hard if they're working for somebody else. You've got to be flexible then you've got to be willing to meet them where they are if they're, if they're the person you're looking for, you know, so if somebody applies, you need to reach out to them immediately and email, you need to email them. But remember we're doing a lot of stuff through text nowadays. So here's kind of how it would go for me. You apply for the job that I've got posted, I'm going to email you, you email you and reach out to you immediately. So you know, but I don't expect you probably to answer the phone or to write me back because you may be in an attic, maybe sit next to your boss or your lead man, whatever it is, but I'm going to do that. And then if I don't hear from you, I'm going to do it again tomorrow and then I'm going to give you a Couple of days and I'm going to do it again. But the process then is hopefully I get that response back and I'm going to do one of a few things first. I'll always offer for you to come into our office to meet with us face to face. But if that doesn't work, I've met guys at lunch. I'll take you to lunch. You know, maybe you can park at Walmart, we'll go eat at McDonald's next door. Subway. Don't mind doing that at all. I will. You know, we've done interviews in the evening after work hours. We've met people on the weekends. I've got a guy right now who's actually him and I were talking yesterday, he's hiring right outside of Philadelphia and he actually has two apprentices that he is meeting with on Saturday that he's going to do their first kind of round of on the like hands on skills Training is from 8 to noon and to see if they have that they move to the next step. But they already work for somebody as an apprentice. But he's having to do all this on a Saturday and that's fine. You've got to be able to meet people where they are, right?

Yeah, I think that's really good. And what kind of stuff are you seeing? Obviously like 401k insurance, time off, that kind of stuff. Is there any other unique benefits that are out there that you would say yeah, this is something that you should be mentioning or offering.

So it's hard and it's hard to offer benefits especially when you're small. We all know that, you know. And I'll kind of tell you what really we were having a lot of trouble bringing on new hires, especially with families, guys or gals that had families because we couldn't offer benefits and didn't for a long time of any kind of. And we had a health insurance broker that I that worked with us that offered that we started doing a medical like an insurance reimbursement plan. So here's kind of how we ran ours. They would, you know, our health insurance broker would work with them, find a plan that they would fit, that fit their family or their budget. We then. And they would buy it through him. That's all their thing. But we would give them extra allowance onto their paycheck every week to help offset that cost. Now we couldn't pay for the whole thing and we couldn't afford to do benefits like that for everybody. But that's how we started as a smaller company that just really changed stuff for us. So that's huge. The biggest thing right now, benefits wise, is, yes, the financial, the benefit, the health, all that is there. Company culture is huge right now. Company culture is huge. People want to work somewhere where they're appreciative, appreciated, they felt appreciated, they're taken care of. They understand that, you know, that they have a family, that there might be some incidents, that they have a. I mean, my, my admin who's been with me forever in a day is, is a single mom. And I know that there's days that when she has a sick kid, she's going to work from home, and that's okay. And we allow that to happen. And she does a great job making that work. The time off is a good one. You know, we, one of the things that we stress with our team members is, and it's whenever we get there, whenever they get their handbook and they earn PTO and paid time off as we go through it, that we, we make it, use it or lose it because we want them to take it. Right? So I've got guys with two and three weeks of vacation because they've been with us forever, that if I, you know, we tell them, you know, you know, Lee, you've got two weeks of vacation left and it's November. You know, you tell us when you're taking it because you're going to take a couple of time off and we're going to pay you to go be with your family and hang out. So making sure that your benefits are something that you truly want them to use is huge. But I think if you're trying to find something that's kind of off the beaten path with benefits, look at your company culture and make sure that they feel valued. Make sure that they're taken care of in your team meetings, you know, recognize them or their family for accomplishments. Like if we've got guys that their kids graduated from high school, we give them a card for their kid with a gift card in it. Or we had one of our team members get married and we gave them, you know, a card for him and his, him and his new wife and we, you know, put some stuff in it for them. So making sure that your company culture is where it needs to be. We're finding people leaving companies nowadays, yes, for financial and advancement opportunities, but company culture is becoming a big thing.

Yeah. We recently had Mike McCallowicz on. He wrote Profit, Profit First. And he recently wrote a book called All In. And in the book, he had a quote that said, if you Want your employees to be all in on the company. You have to be all in on your employees. And he, he lays out kind of like you got to have one to ones with them. You got to get to know them. You got to know if their kids graduating or if they're getting married.

That's right.

It's not just a transaction of I pay you to do this job, do this job. It's more what's your purpose and the transformation that happens at work.

Sure, sure, absolutely. And there is that fine line of still being the boss and the employee. Right. Boss and team member, but like you said, knowing what's going on in their life. You know, we're all our own favorite subject. That's just the way we are. So, you know, whenever someone, you know, pays attention, listens and remembers what's going on in your life because it shows value and that's huge. Yeah.

There's one other thing I wanted to ask you about that I heard you talk about before, which was with technicians and ongoing development. What, what are some. Obviously there's different things that they can do and different courses they could take, but are there any specific things that you would say like, yeah, these are things that techs are looking for or looking to do or kind of like milestones or something like that. Career journey.

You know, I'm trying to think of kind of some of the things that I've heard. Obviously a lot of us get into the trades. Especially these guys get into the service side. They like fixing things that interest them right there. And that's how it kind of goes into the career. So I would say any way that you can advance their knowledge or advance their career, do it. We work with our manufacturer. All of your listeners have, you know, probably a manufacturer or a distributor that they work with. Those people offer tons of classes and opportunities to learn, make sure they're going to those. Make sure that if you're selling a certain brand of equipment that your guys are experts on that equipment. They have the certification that says that they are, you know, experts in the heat pump side. They're experts on the two stage compressors. They're experts in all of these things because a, that makes you look good, you're going to be able to work and fix better things. But it helps them advance their knowledge on the equipment.

Yeah, I would imagine in trade, on trade jobs, there's a place you can designate like, you know, Lennox, Carrier, whatever, whatever manufacturers that you're knowledgeable about and.

Absolutely, those types of things it is. And you know, the I was talking with a guy the other day, and it's hard, but one of the things that they advertise is that their technicians go through. I think you said 200 hours, 200 hours of education a year. Well, you start breaking that down, you're like, okay, so there's 52 weeks in a year. We're going to do X amount of time per week. And, okay, it's going to take us two hours a week to get this thing knocked out. But that's an astonishing number and that's something that your customers will love to hear. Right? And it just makes the best teams. If you've got guys that are just, you know, guys and gals that are just working for you and they don't want to grow, they don't want to move up in life, they don't want to expand their knowledge of their equipment, watch out for them. You know, they're there collecting a paycheck and. And they may not be giving it their all when you're not watching them.

Yeah. A common theme through our discussion was growth and learning and going for new things. Are there any specific books or podcasts or resources that you would recommend? Whether it's books or podcasts or things.

I am reading, I think it's called Dream Maker right now, which is kind of about company culture and retention. So there's that. And, you know, there's so many great podcasts like you guys. And I am very much. I like to kind of, you know, listen and be in groups of people with my peers. There's a lot of guys. It's funny, locally here there are guys that own H vac companies that won't talk to you, that won't, like, won't act like they know who you are at the grocery store and all that. And then there's a whole other group of like four or five of us that have a text like that text together. Yeah, we'll call each other. I had a guy called me the other day, this guy's a complete competitor of mine, called me the other day. He goes, hey, what are you charging for a, like a 4 ton heat pump shaved out right now, like, oh, cool, let me look at my stuff. And I told him, he goes, all right, cool. We're within 300 bucks of each other. Just want to make sure I was still on the right path. I'm like, you know, talk to your peers. Do that. Find something. You know, find a way to better yourself through podcasts or reading or something. I'm not a big reader. You Know, I had a business owner up in Oklahoma recommend this book to me, so I'm wanting to read it so that him and I can talk more about it. But I am definitely more of a podcast. Find a great YouTube channel that you like and educate yourself through means like that. But I just like bouncing ideas off of my, my friends and my competitors, you know, those that will get together.

I think it's good. The iron sharpens iron. And don't shy away from. I was at a networking group and this woman's like, oh, we do the same thing. And I'm like, okay, great. Well, let's talk. Let's get lunch. Let's talk about like, what's working for you? What's working for me. And we gave each other value and we're, we both growing our business because of things that we shared. So I don't, I don't think it's a bad thing by any means.

I got a, I've got a buddy here locally that owns a water purification company. You know, they do a lot of, in home water purification, water software or softening systems, things of that nature. And I got into my business about the same time he was starting his. And we're both home service businesses and we have bounced more ideas off of each other just on what's working, what's not. What's working in marketing right now. Oh, I saw your ad in the local. This. Are you getting anything out of that? Is that working? And, and you know, I, I love doing stuff like that. Yeah.

I think it's very silly to think, oh, we Both can't have 10 million dollar business or 20 million dollar business.

This is right.

There's no way that that's, that's even possible.

Like, right.

If we're going for billion dollar, you know, moonshot ideas. Okay, maybe, but like, come on.

But we're talking air conditioning in Texas, right? I mean, there's plenty of work for all of us, I promise. And if you know what, and here's another thing. Learn from their mistakes, because mistakes are expensive. You know, learn from something that they've done that you're like, geez, that saved me five grand. Awesome. I'm not going to do that and move on to something else.

Yeah. Well, Jeff, thanks so much, man. This has been so great. If people are interested in signing up for trade jobs or what should they do, how should they go about that?

So the website is gettradejobs.com super easy on there, two buttons. I'm either looking to hire, looking to work, and you can either fill out your candidate profile for free or. Or look through the employer page. It's all there. You can contact me directly through it. And then, you know, follow our social links. We're on Facebook, we're on Instagram, We've got a YouTube channel. All the things that people can help promote us, because truly, this is a business built by contractors for contractors. And, you know, that's what we're trying to do is have the revolution of everybody moving to one hub so we can all get back to work faster.

Awesome. Well, thanks so much, Jeff. It's been great getting to know you, man.

Thank you. I appreciate your time.

All right.

Bye. Bye.