Do This When Hiring Your Leadership Team with Andrew Henke

Welcome back to the show. I'm your host, Phil Risher. And on today's episode, we're talking about how to hire better, retain longer, and scale faster by building the right team with Andrew Henke. Thanks so much for joining us today, Andrew.

Hey, thanks for having us, Phil. Glad to be here.

Yeah, for sure. The, the thing I'm most excited about talking with Andrew about is this is not another episode about how to hire some technicians and get people to fill your, to fill your routes. This is really high level how to scale your business. And that's what he is an expert at, which I'm very excited to talk through. And Andrew, before we get into it, could you give people a quick Bio, you know, 20 seconds, two minutes?

Yeah, definitely. So, yeah. My name's Andrew Hinke. Like Phil said, I'm the senior managing partner here at Bricks Recruiting Partners. And we are essentially, the best way I can put it, we are headhunters. We are not resume recruiters, but we spend our days reaching out to the home service, home improvement industry and having conversations with companies, people in a lot of leadership roles trying to find out where the direction of the market's going, what people are looking for career wise, and just getting as much knowledge as we can. So over the past 13 years at BRICS, we have built this nationwide network of industry leaders that when we have a client that reaches out to us for a need, hopefully we can be a resource. If it's just intel, maybe we can be a resource, actually help connect people with some of these leaders that maybe you have an opportunity is what they're looking for. And that's our job, is to be a headhunter, matchmaker as best way I can quickly summarize it for you, Phil. We have a team. We're all based out of Minnesota, right in the Twin Cities. We have what, 25 employees that are all us based here that are on the phones every single day. Think of this as like an inside sales team. So we are proactively reaching out to the network. We don't rely on job boards or anything, but we want to be proactive in our network building and actually reaching out to people and tap them on the shoulder and, and going from there.

Love it. Okay, great. So this is going to be a great conversation. This is what y' all do. And I want to try to extract as much out to help people. So the usual people that listen to this is like 1 million growing to like $10 million. And they're trying to figure out how to scale. And at this Point, they probably bought back their time, they have some technicians, but usually they need maybe like a project manager, an ops person, a gm, a sales manager. Like those types of roles. Could you talk through some of the common roles that people are filling in that range of like 1 to 10 million and maybe it's all the ones that I just said, but like ones get stuck on or what you're seeing?

Yeah, I think the roles you mentioned are usually the most common ones and I think it's, you know, it's a little bit dependent on the company, but it's where you're spending most of the time. To your point, Phil, you've already filled the technicians and maybe a couple of salespeople, but now where's your time going? Are you the one that's training the technicians? Well, cool. Maybe we need to look at more of an operation installation manager. Or are you the one that's continually following with your salespeople and training on that? What's going to free up the time and maybe that's, you know, you're making a list of things. What do I love to do? What do I do just because I have to do? And anything in that category, let's try to find someone that can take that over for you to free up for the things you want to do and love to do.

Yeah, I love that. Buying back your time so you can focus on growing the business on things that you is your unique ability. A lot of people, they probably just go to indeed, you know, slap a resume up there, get some resumes going through that route. A lot of people probably have been burned and that might not be the most efficient use of their time. Could you talk about like what a good game plan looks like for hiring some of these top level people you mentioned, not just like resume sifters but also like being proactive. What does that look like?

Yeah, I think the people that you're probably wanting to hire are more than likely not always not on indeed. They're not looking for a position. You're looking for the person that is successful in their role and probably doing very well and is maybe at a competitor currently. So we can't rely 100% on indeed. We need to basically make a story of our company that is known by the public. I think a great opportunity too is going to different industry events and just networking is a great way to visit some of these and start to, you know, have your face out there. But when you're, you know, I think marketing plays a huge role into this. Right. I think A lot of us market toward customers using different social media products and such, but also taking some of that marketing spend and saying, can we do it to tell the story of our culture, the vision, where we're going recruitment wise? That could be an avenue that I think a lot of people don't take advantage of because those same people that you're maybe looking to hire are looking at your social media from a competitive standpoint. Hey, what are they doing to gain customers? What if that message results? So what are we doing to grow the brand and the company and maybe even just publicly say that we're looking for these types of leaders? There's a lot of different avenues we could go down that route. Fill in a conversation.

Yeah. So it sounds like don't just slap something on. Indeed. Obviously go to your social media, maybe even go to your email newsletter and make people aware that you're hiring for this position. Because probably these people are going to be at a job that they might not like right now and they would be interested if they knew that your position is open and they're not actually on. Indeed. Searching for jobs is what I'm hearing from you.

Right? That and you know, even on your website. These people in today's world are probably your competitor in a lot of ways and they might be looking at your website to see what you're doing for a competitive edge. Building a really robust career page within your website. And not just a career website that says this is what we're hiring for, but it's marketed towards showing the actual culture. It's testimonial videos for your current employees. It's videos from the leadership saying the direction of the company going. And this helps not only leadership, but it helps those low level roles too that when they go to Indeed and they visit your website, they kind of hear the story of what your company has. It's not going to, you know, be a light switch where else you have all these applicants come in. But it's starting to delay the groundwork.

Yeah, marketing is not just about sharing all the problems that you can solve, but also like people want to work with good businesses that have really good team members that are really engaged and excited. So that's other things, things that you can share that would help attract not only employees but also good customers. It's a double edged sword.

Yep. Most, yeah, I think the companies we have seen done that have had nothing but positivity and you can, you can scale very small by having a website with maybe just a video from the ownership or the Leaders. To the point where I have some clients of mine that have built full YouTube stories of following a day in the life of every single role in that company. That, to your point, it shows the customer, like, how we treat our customers and all the different things we do. But also from a candidate standpoint, people watching these videos, seeing a day in the life of a technician or a sales manager or an HR person, whatever it might be, and they go up. That looks interesting to me. That's something I could do. That's something I could bring value to.

Yeah, I love it. So I want to get to the point of, like, bringing people over from other companies, because it can be a little weird. Like, what's my plan of attack? Just like, hey, there's a company that has a position open, and maybe you might be interested in having a conversation. Maybe it's as simple as that. But how do you actually attract people from another company to come to your business? If it's like a very direct outreach, that's not weird. Should it come from the owner? Should it come from someone else? What does that look like?

Yeah, I mean, I think it. At some points, I think the owner is the best way. It's like you're singling that person out. I'm directly tapping you on the shoulder. I mean, LinkedIn is a great professional networking tool. Right. I do think opening it up to just a general conversation sometimes is better than directly. Like, I need to hire a sales manager, and I see you, but from those senior leadership people, you know, sending a message on LinkedIn and just saying, hey, I see you're in this space. I would love to network. And it might not be I'm directly trying to hire you or target that, but I'm just looking to network with other people that are in our community that are within the same industry. Because all that we know a lot of times is we know the company, we might know the title, but I don't know what Phil brings to the table. And I don't want to position right off the bat and go, hey, Phil, I'm looking for our sales manager. Are you interested? When all I know is your title and your name, I don't even know if you're a fit for our culture. So that's where I think opening conversation, like, hey, I'm just looking to network with other peers within our industry. If you're open to a conversation, maybe that's a phone call, maybe that's meeting at Starbucks or anything. But I think that's a great way from. To open A conversation. And if nothing else, maybe it is just truly networking. Maybe there is some business that can go back and forth through these relationships.

Yeah. I think either way, reaching out to someone and just starting a conversation, like what you're saying, going to events and just building a relationship with someone, then if the opportunity presents itself and it makes sense, you already have the groundwork laid and it's not weird. And this would be something that you could be doing ongoing, just touching basin and building this bench almost of relationships.

Yeah. I do think when you have these conversations, you do want to think out a little bit, like, what is the point of this conversation? Is it one to learn about them? Is it two? I'm trying to highlight things about my company. Is it just sharing? So going with a little bit of a game plan of, hey, I have this person that's agreed to speak with me. Now what am I going to actually bring to the table? Because I think a lot of these candidates. Right. And this is what we run into every day. If, if, if they don't know the story or the vision or where you're trying to get to, they might see you as disorganized. You're kind of all over the place. I don't know how professional this company is, especially if you're a smaller company. Right. Yeah. That if they're going to make a move, these are check boxes. They're going to want to know is like, where's the company going? What's the vision? And so even if you don't have a true game plan of the conversation, just know that leadership people, that's what they're going to ask. If they're ever going to even consider leaving, they want to know where the path is. Career wise, form, company wise. It's okay not to have all the answers, but at least be able to have some thoughts around it where you can have a conversation more than just shrugging your shoulders going, we're looking to double our business, you know, and we need more than that. Yeah.

Have a vision that's casted. Because I think maybe if Dan Martel, he says this, but your vision needs to be big enough that your team's goals fit into it.

Yeah.

And you need to be able to say, like, we're building this thing and then your goals can reach into this. I do want to ask you because this one comes up a lot. I feel like it got stuck. And this was something that we hit in my home service business was like the technicians, it's, you know, you set up some comp Pay, they get some upsells. Your CSR is similar. But then when you get that next tier, the compensation plans to correlate with performance pay, it can get a little sticky. Like, do I give them a percentage of revenue? Do I do this? Do you have any best practices of like, how to figure that out and structure it in your business? I know every business is different, but like, think about like a three to four or five million dollars business that's wants to get this, these solid foundational people in, and they want to give them some type of slice pie. Like, what does that look like? And how do they figure that out or build that conversation?

Yeah, I mean, I think to your point, every business is going to be a little bit different. Right. When you come to that conversation. And I think it also depends on who you're bringing in. Right. So if I'm bringing someone in that I see as potentially being the GM and kind of the everyday thing, maybe I'm open to giving some equity so they have some ownership in there and some real drive to grow this thing where if I'm hiring a sales manager that I don't see, you know, another level above that for some time, maybe it's more just I want to be competitive in the space when it comes to compensation. Some it's reaching out to someone like myself that maybe is talking to these cans every day. And we can give you an idea in your local market. Every market's gonna be different. What are you guys seeing? Because part of our job is to learn where the market is around compensation. Part of it is maybe going to these industry events and networking with some other owners that are maybe in other parts of the country. So it's not, you know, they're more open to maybe sharing that type of stuff. And two, you know, I think just having an open conversation with, you know, individuals that maybe you're having these networking conversations be about, about, you know, how does the company take care of you? Like, what things drive you when it comes to compensation? Maybe it's this override in sales. Maybe it's equity, maybe it's straight base. There's just so many options out there. But I think those are some starting places you could probably start with.

Yeah, I think a lot of it comes to what is that person's goals. And then also knowing your numbers plays a lot into it.

That's. That's huge. And that goes into kind of the vision and stuff like having a really good idea, like where the profitability is and such. And some of it, it might Be, you know, reaching out some like yourself, Phil, or somewhere else in the consulting world, someone that has grown these businesses already and trying to network with those people. And I think it's great to network with peers. They're in the same place. But if I can find some companies that have already achieved over where or where I'm trying to go, and if I can connect to those people and have an open dialogue, I have found in this industry more than anything else, people, they share stuff. Like, it's not this, like, iron wall that, like, we don't. We can't get past. Can't get past that wall is. I go to a lot of industry events and I'm shocked by how much intel gets shared back and forth. And I don't know if it's the home improvement home service, just kind of the background that we all have in this industry or not. But, um, you know, I think that's a great starting point is to try to find someone, a mentor that's been there, done it. It might be a consultant, it might be someone that's, you know, scale the company, but that, that's a great place to start too.

Yeah. One of the things that we do, and this might be helpful for someone listening is let's say, like, we're going to grow to $10 million. Then like my, like my business, I'll say, hey, we're going to go to $10 million. Okay. So we know that at $10 million, this position that I'm hiring you for should make $250,000. Right now, I'm going to pay you $120,000. And then that delta of 130,000, every single inch that we get closer to that, you're going to make more money. As we build to your $250,000, as we all build the company together, it helps set the vision and then also allows you to work back to figure out what that Delta is. The 130,000 in that example of what do I need to get, how do I get there with them? And it also buys in the incentives.

Yeah, I think you're spot on. Be able to put that carrot out in front of someone. Right. And be able to describe, though, because if I am, I am in the industry, I'm working for a competitor, I'm doing well in my role. And you can't explain to me how I get to that next level or can't explain the compensation. That could be a deal breaker right away. Because in a candidate's eyes, they are taking 100% of the risk. I am leaving a company right now that I'm getting compensated well, and I'm going to Phil's company, and Phil can't tell me how to get there. That's going to put the brakes on these conversations real quick. And so I think, to your point, Phil, thinking that out of what the delta is and how do I get someone to this level is a really important part of the recruiting stage. And that doesn't need to be said to conversation number one. But as you get someone and you feel like, okay, this person is worth investing in and have continue the conversation, I need to be prepared to have that conversation. Yeah.

It's so true. And we see, we see this a lot. Like, we work with owners and then, you know, oh, I just met this great waitress at this restaurant. She's awesome. She's going to be my next gm. Like, I'm going to build her up. I'm going to. And it's like, you could do that, but you could also go find a great GM that already works at a home service business that is a top performer that knows all the systems and game plans and can come in and plug it into your business. And nine times out of 10, that person, you're going to train them up and it's not even going to get there. And it's like, it's a complete mind shift, but it also is going to speed up your stuff and get you where you want to go without you trying to fix this stuff. So I think going the route of finding someone that's good, that's already out there is a way better play, in my opinion. It sounds like that's what y' all would default to.

Yeah, that and just understanding your market, too. And, um, you know, there's. There's positive negatives around it. Right. But when PE kind of enters the place, that can ruffle some feathers. And having the market knowledge of knowing that my competitor just got bought out by pe, I might want to proactively try to reach out to some of their leaders to see how they feel about this. There can be some great stories about pe and there can be some stories that aren't so great either, that people get unsure when he enters the space. And that is sometimes a good time to start these conversations. People are kind of considering, I don't know where the future is for me. And here's Phil, who's got a company that's growing, it's privately owned. Maybe that's a conversation that I take that I wouldn't have taken six Months ago.

Yeah. So good. So if there's private equity moving in, there could be opportunity for people ruffled feathers to get some of their teammates that are, I don't know if I'm going to be here that much longer. What's it like? And they could at least open the conversation of it. I love it.

Yeah.

I want to ask you about something that's shifting that we're seeing in home service is the remote work environment, specifically like with sales leaders, office managers, even GMs to some extent. Have you seen this? Like someone on the east coast is hiring people on the west coast and they're virtual management.

I would say with your. The types of revenue bands that we're Talking about that 1 to 10, even like 1 to $30 million companies, I haven't seen a lot of it. Okay. From the client side now from the candidate side, there's a lot of candidates that want to be in that space for one reason or another. And so I think the one thing that we need to recognize is if we are wanting to hire people from within the industry. And I'm in Fargo, North Dakota. Yeah. There's only so many other competitors that I have. So if I need to hire a GM and I go, well, there's only two or three people I would consider someone that could come over and give me that next level. And I don't have a way to attract those two or three people. Well, then what do I do? I homegrow someone and I invest big time in onboarding, training. You know, just. I'm going to wear that cross for the next couple years as I kind of mentor someone. Or am I open to either a fractional leader? I think we've seen an uptake of that where companies are hiring fractional leaders. You could call them consultants. They have a lot of different terms that is kind of the in between. You know, it's. I don't want to use the word band aid, but it's helping us. It's helping us cross the bridge that we can bring that fractional leader in that can help us with issues today as we're mentoring maybe a young leader into that role and having that fractional leader help share that, that I think we've seen an uptick of on some of the finance and operations roles. I think for the larger scale companies, the monsters they've gone a lot into more the remote and more open to. That part of it I think is just a mindset that if they're not in the office, how could they be part of Our culture. And those are things of, I think, sitting back. We've had it ourselves. We were 100% within an office. I live about 10 minutes away from our office. And over the past couple years, we've gone more hybrid, remote. It's allowed us to bring in some talent that we would never have gotten before, which is awesome. But, you know, we had to work on, well, how do we maintain culture? How do we maintain relationships? What new tools do we need to bring in? It can be done. Obviously, there's a lot of companies thriving in that space. I just think that a lot of times when we have smaller companies, myself was included. It's a lot of times this is a mindset.

Yeah.

Well, if they're not here, how would they feel? Part of the team, you know, a sales manager that needs to be in the field. Yeah, that's probably something we got to find local. But if it's an operations manager or, you know, a call center manager, maybe a lot of those types of roles, there's paths to going remote or hybrid that I think allow you just access to more talent, because, again, you're in Fargo, there's only so much talent to go around. If you're in Dallas, maybe not the case. You know, there's a lot. Population's a lot bigger. So I think it depends on where you're at, but it definitely, either way, it opens up your pipeline. You go remote.

Yeah, for sure. It was a big shift for me. I. I was at. I had 28 technicians. I was there at 6:30 in the morning, you know, shaking hands, goofing off all the stuff. And then I shifted to all remote, like my company. And it's like, how do I build culture? What do I do? How do I communicate with these people? And I think as like, even CSRs or other roles in home service that are maybe moving out of office, that's going to be a big focus for a lot of people, I would say. I do want to ask you about retaining team members. So obviously you're on the one side of it, which is like, let me get you get yourself.

Yeah.

But how do you, like, retain your top talent and make sure that they don't get poached or leave you.

Yeah. So I think that's a great topic to talk about. I hate to say the word culture, because I think everyone says we have a great culture. And what does that mean? There's different variations of it, but I think it really comes down to, like, just learning what your team is today and having real, you know, One on one, like, heart to heart conversations about, like, what are you looking for here? And then when they say, you know, I want to continue to grow. If we're not investing in training or sending them to maybe, you know, third party training events or bringing in outside perspective, just know that they've told us getting better is important to them. And if we're not doing that, when another opportunity arises, that they are showcasing how, hey, we've promoted six guys over the past two years and we invest in this, that person's gonna take that phone call, they're gonna apply to that indeed. Ad. So as simple as it sounds, I think it's just really sitting down with your staff and understanding truly, like on a one on one setting, what is important to you. And at some times they might say, I don't know. And we got to be able to walk them through that conversation. I think there's, you know, different assessments that I would say, you know, they're. They're good, take them with a grain of salt. But it's surprising that, you know, where I would think someone would be motivated. My staff, I had them take assessment and I'm like, oh, this. This person is money motivated. The assessment showed it was. That was complete opposite. And it allowed us to have a conversation about it. And me being like, hey, I thought I was motivating you by putting money in front of you, but I found out that's not what's important to you. You're more of a people person and you want to be in a position where you want to train and mentor people. That's what's important. I need to give you that opportunity to do that, to thrive here. Yeah. So that's where my best advice, I think would be. But investing in, you know, just making sure your employees feel appreciated. So some of these assessments will tell you that Phil needs a pat on the back every single day. Like, that's what he needs. And his counterpart is basically like, leave me alone. I don't want to be on the spotlight. I don't need recognition. Just let me do my thing. And recognizing that every one of your organization is a little bit different and their motivators are going to be different. But at the end of the day, having those conversations on a regular basis, if nothing else, they feel closer to you and they feel that you care about them. And now I have a personal tie that I've called candidates before and had a great opportunity, said Andrew. It sounds like a great opportunity, but my owner has taken care of me. They have invested in me, I'm so close to them. It would feel like I'm, I'm, you know, getting a divorce if I was ever to leave this person. I'm ride or die with them. But that starts because that owner takes the time to invest in every one of their employees or their, you know, the, whoever oversees your technicians. That person's having the same conversation with the techs on a one, on one basis. That's where I think you can start to really, you know, create what a true culture is. Like everyone kind of cares about each other type thing. And it doesn't mean we need to go around hugging. That just means I know my owner, he doesn't have to have these conversations. He's taking time out of his time to sit down with me, invest with me. And when I tell them, yeah, I want more training, it doesn't mean that you, the owner has to think or go, well, awesome, why don't you go out and, you know, if there's certain courses you want to take or certain things you want to attend, bring them to me and we can have a conversation. If we can do that. And I think that's, you know, a part where they can have a say in it too. But you're building that relationship and that's, I think, the number one thing, especially at a leadership level that keeps people intact is that feeling of like, the company cares about me, they're investing in me. If I was to leave them, man, I would just feel awful after everything they've done for me.

Yeah. From what I'm hearing from you, it's like you got to have one to one conversations, whether that's weekly, monthly or quarterly, at least where you're, you know, talking about their goals, just getting to know them on a personal level, what's going on, investing in them, then having some opportunity for ongoing training. So that way they feel like they're sharpening their skills or not just a bump on a log, just catching a check and then also having some type of like events or something where like, it's deeper, it's deeper than just work. I don't just work here. It's like we're all getting together and it's community.

If we have an employee party, you go past that, let's bring the kids, let's bring your spouse, let's bring everyone in, let's, you know, have a community type thing like you're saying. And during those one on one calls, I think a lot of companies have those on a regular basis. But when I talk to People, they go, yep, my one on one. It's strictly about numbers in the business. There's no personal connection. It's, did we hit our appointments, did we get our clothes right, whatever, and they're on to the next. Instead of maybe just starting the conversation, we don't need to spend two hours. But just starting off like, hey, you know what's going well today, Phil? What are some of the wins you had since we last talked? Talk about your metrics and then end it. Great. What's the one thing I can do for you that's going to help you out the most? And then that I think starts some of those conversations that, you know, start to build that connection?

Yeah, I love it. I do want to ask you about how someone should think about paying for a headhunter or something for a new person on the team, because I think. I think. I don't know this, but I think there's like two different ways to do it. Like, you could hire a recruiter and pay them like monthly to, like, find someone for you or something like that. And then you could say, hey, this person has like a bounty that I want to get this thing, and then I'll give you this fulfillment fee. Are there any best practices on, like, how to balance that and make it make sense for your business and work for you and think through that process?

Yeah, I mean, I think there's a. There's a couple different ways. Right. You know, for the higher leadership people where you're like, I need someone to go out and hand pick, tap people on their shoulder for this. You're looking at that bounty type approach to it. The one thing I would say when you see those fees is just think about, you know, if I didn't have this person and if it's, you know, a sales leader and they're going to bring in $5 million of revenue, paying a headhunter a fee, like, just putting that all into consideration, I think, is I'm paying this guy $20,000 to go find a leader. However, if that leader helps me generate an extra $3 million of revenue next year. And that. That sounds like a great deal to most. There's a lot of different ways to structure those plans. There's a lot of different recruiters and headhunters that do it. And part of it also goes into. There are services like you're talking about, like a monthly fee where it's just kind of a resume service, and they're just. They're managing your job boards for you. It's taking something off of your hands that I'm hiring a service that will post all my ads. And indeed they will, you know, screen candidates. They'll do that for me. Those you're looking for a monthly type, almost like a subscription fee. Like those exist. Yep, they're great. If you're hiring probably more on the technician side, entry level. Like hey, I always need to be bringing more and more people in. That's a great route. I would also argue bringing in an internal recruiter into your staff is a great move and have one person that can own this thing. It can help sometimes on cost. Now those internal people, you know, they're more. They're not always as proactive. So are they gonna go find your next director of sales? Maybe. Probably not. But are they gonna be a great person saying hey, over the next year we need to hire 10 more technicians, we need some salespeople, we need warehouse office drivers, you know, whatever. For sure I can have one person. And then when you have that one person, which you know I'm always happy to have the conversation about is setting up some KPIs around them. Managing just like you would any other position in your company of having some KPIs of knowing it, but bringing someone that can own this type of stuff. So when you want to go to job fairs, you're not taking some out of the field to go work a job fair. You're not taking some out of the field to have all these first round interviews and screening and such. It can be a great investment to bring someone internal into your team and say you are our internal recruiter, our talent acquisition manager, whatever you want to call it, but can be a good asset. But I think always having the open door of just talking to outside services too. Most of his outsourced marketing mouse is outsource a lot of other things. Recruiting is no different, I think.

Yeah, I completely agree. I like to call out with the internal person because you could probably hire someone for like 70, 80, $90,000, but then like they're going to run point on all and even some of your other annoying HR stuff that you have to do probably too.

And yeah, they can help with onboarding with all the, you know. Yeah, some of you starting today who's gonna do the i9 paperwork and collect all this. And that internal recruiter can be that it's a, you know, it's a position too where they feel incredibly important to the company. And I think you see your other leaders too as while we're investing in someone I know Phil said we're gonna grow this year. Now they're bringing an internal recruiter in that's gonna be part of our staff.

Yeah.

You know, that shows the company like, we're investing. Like, we're. We're serious about growing this thing. We're bringing an internal recruiter. We're building out a recruiting department. You know, that, that can be another thing that can help with that. Retaining people going. Well, when they say they're growing, they're serious. They just hired a recruiter. So.

Yeah. Yeah. The. The recruitment. The recruitment fee. When people scoff at that, I always say, like, okay, well, if your time's worth $500 an hour.

Yep.

Okay, that's a thousand to. That's like, are you gonna spend 20 hours on this or 40 hours on this trying to find this person? There's no way more time than that. Like, your time is worth way more than that.

Yeah. And I, I would tell you, like, you know, if you're not doing it, your competitor is or might be.

Yeah.

So if there's talent out there, you know, do I want to say, well, I'll do it myself and I'll just hope someone applies and. Indeed. Or do I want to be proactive and get a step ahead of my competition? So.

Exactly. I love it. Cool, man. Well, this has been great conversation. I appreciate you sharing all this insight. Where should people go to learn more about your company and you? Where should they go from here?

So I would say two best resources. Just bricks recruiting, and it's B R I X recruiting dot com. They'll bring it to our website. You can learn everything about our company in our different fields there. Otherwise, a great place to find me is just on LinkedIn. So. Andrew Hinkey. H E N K E. I'm on there all the time, so I'm easy to get a hold of. But if you connect with me, part of it is you'll see some of my network stuff too. And that might even jumpstart some of the networking. I'm more than happy to introduce you to anybody. So if you're a company and you're looking to just get networked with someone, I am as transparent as possible. If you point out a name, say, can you connect us? I'm more than happy to have an intro and get you introduced to anybody or talk about anything that we talked about here today. Happy to do that. Even if it's just a conversation. I don't charge consulting fees. If you just want to talk shop about recruiting, I love that stuff. Feel free to send me a message and we can set up a time to chat.

Awesome. Thanks, Andrew. Appreciate you, man.

All right. Thanks, Phil.

See ya.