Is SEO Dead? Modern Contractor Marketing Tips

Hey, everyone. Welcome back to Contractor Evolution, the podcast by Breakthrough Academy. There is no question that AI is changing the way that people ask questions online. So how do you make sure that you actually show up as the answer? Well, in today's episode, we're going to deep dive into using AI tools for contractor sales and marketing. We're revealing the secrets to using ChatGPT and other large language models to promote your business to potential customers in every related search. Contractor marketing expert Phil Risher is a longtime SEO strategist and has been on the front lines of AI and has seen how it's changed the game for contractors and home service businesses. So in this conversation, we're going to cover the difference between SEO, GEO and aeo. For those of you who don't know what that means, you will in a second. And where to invest your efforts right now, how large language models actually decide what information to serve and which brands to properly recommend. And four personalized videos that you can make in the next 10 minutes that are going to increase your conversion rates by over 20% as people continue to crave more real human connection. In my mind, this is a mandatory episode to listen to for all contractors in every industry, even if you're a little bit tech phobic. If this sounds like the kind of insights that you need for your contracting business, make sure you subscribe and follow on whatever platform you're on. Right now. We'll drop content like this every single week. Now let's get started with Phil Risher. You're watching Contractor Evolution, the podcast by Breakthrough Academy where we systemize contracting businesses for growth. Keep watching to learn how the world's top contractors scale their companies, build killer teams, and make more while working less. Mr. Phil, welcome to the show, my friend. Thanks for coming on today.

Yeah, for sure. Thanks for having me. I'm excited about this conversation.

This is gonna be an interesting one. There is a lot happening in the world of AI. There's a lot changing in the world of marketing, and AI is just, I would say, a disruptor of it. And you have your hand on the pulse of this. So today, let's get into all things AI, how this is affecting contractor marketing, and what we can do about it. Sound good?

Yeah. Yeah, sounds great.

All right, man, so let's just start with you, because you. I don't think you started doing marketing using artificial intelligence or any of these types of tools that have come out in the last year or two years. How'd you get started in this space? Specifically contractor marketing?

Yeah, for sure. I'M an old school blogger. So about 2014, I created a blog about personal finance and I built a WordPress website. I was writing three blog posts per week by hand, no, you know, no chatgpt back then, learning email marketing, social media content. And I ended up getting my blog to about 30, 40,000 readers a month. And I learned about how to get featured in other places to build authority. So I got featured in Forbes and cnbc, Yahoo Finance, all this kind of cool stuff. And I learned the world of SEO like Neil Patel and keyword tracking and backlinks and all this, these fluff words that you hear. At the same time, I actually was working at Enterprise Rent a Car, selling fleet management services to home service companies. So I would be going in, I would call the CEOs of 10, 20, $100 million businesses, sit down with them to talk about their fleet services and naturally marketing would come up because it was something I was passionate about in doing. I actually quit that job and I traveled around the country in a school bus and I made content. So like videos, blog content, news interviews, and I was just traveling, making content, doing this whole thing. And when I got back from that trip in 2018, one of my clients was a $3 million home service business. And he was looking for a director of business development to help him grow. So I went to work there. And in the first month, my world collided. My experience working at Enterprise, running a local service business and doing digital marketing all was like, oh my gosh, they need this. And within the first year, he went 3 million to 4 million, 4 million to 5 million and sold to private equity. And that's what we do now with businesses. But that's kind of how I got started in SEO marketing.

Amazing. Total random question. Best and worst part of living in a bus.

Well, mine was completely off grid, so I had no running water or electricity. So it was like very rough in it. I would say the worst part was you would go a week without a shower probably if you didn't, you know, stop and get showers. Best part would be that you're completely off grid. So it's just like you just pull up somewhere, Walmart or random places and you just camp out and hang out. So you all ultimate like nomad lifestyle kind of thing.

Amazing. I know a lot of people have done this and I always hear like the first month or two is amazing and then they're slow. Like I still need to live in a home, I still need to go back to society.

So that's what happened to me. I was traveling like about three or four months. And then I was like, okay, like this is fun, but I need to get back into a normal routine of life. And it's just like the place is just kind of, they all blur together, you know.

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Yeah, so about three, four years ago, 90% of searches were right on Google. Everyone's going to Google saying H vac repair near me or whatever the keyword is and then whatever Google search engine results page tells it, that's what they are going with. Obviously this is changing. It was at like 87, 90%. Now it's down to about 80% of searches are happening on Google. The rest are happening. Neil Patel calls it search everywhere optimization, but it's happening on ChatGPT, perplexity, Google AI mode, whatever it is. And the unique position to this is that before SEO search engine optimization on Google search engine results page you can kind of like do the old school white hat, black hat hold dance, song and dance. Now it's large language models that are recommending businesses and it's a whole different shift of what you have to do to be seen over there. And it's going to continue in the next two to three years. Less people are going to use Google search. They're going to start using these other platforms. Which is why it's so important that companies there's a land grab going on over there that they can take Advantage of.

Yeah. Do you know numbers on this? Like how much percent wise are people searching through chat, GPT or LLMs, large language models versus the Google search. How much traffic is it taking as of now?

Yeah, there's a good study out on this, the Pro. The problem is our customers ask this all the time. The problem is that with home service in particular, the searches are so direct in what they're looking for that it's not like you use ChatGPT and ask it questions or me. Like search is so broad that there's not specific home service data for the trade. You know, the trades to say, without a shadow of a doubt, it's this overall broad brush. Google search is diminishing. Bright local, they're one of the SEO tools that's out there. They said that 64% of searches now are happening on Google, so it's dropped tremendously. Before their reports was around 87%. So it's shifting. And they also did a report that the age demographics are changing. Obviously the types of searches people are doing. Old people still use Google, newer younger people are using actually social media. And then our age probably, you know, millennial, ish, Gen X, they're in the AI realm of search and it's kind of shifting, which is why the future is with content in social, in my opinion. And it's going to help you in the AI.

I want to get into content a bit. Before we do, let's just make sure everyone knows what we're talking about. So like when I even did this prep call with you, I had to take some time to really make sure I got this. But let's define. Well, SEO, I think we know what that is. Search Engine Optimization. That's what we've been doing for many years. Can you define what geo is or generative search and can you define what AEO is or answer engine? What are these two things? Because we don't want to get into these.

Yeah, Generative Engine optimization is. It used to be called SGE Search, Generative Experience. When you go to Google and you search something over the last two years, you've seen their search engine results page change a lot. There's some AI overviews over here. There's some links that they cite in their AI overviews and they're pulling an AI. So Generative Search Optimization, or Generative Experience Optimization, however you want to call it, is that whole change of you go somewhere, you search something and now it's actually generating results and telling you the answers. And then the other thing, aeo, which is answer engine optimization. This is where old school blogging is. You're creating content that people are searching for and then providing them answers. Now, when someone goes to ChatGPT and asks it questions, you want to be the cited source as the answer inside of that search.

Cool. So let's narrow in on these two. So for aeo, like the answer engine that's on top of Google, that's kind of giving you that summary ahead of time. How are these overviews changing? Like the way we would get recommended as contractors.

Yep. So when you think about creating content, the they ask you answer framework for Marcus Sheridan. He talks about creating content based off of the questions that your clients are asking. Before home service businesses like, like mine that I used to work at, we would have a frequently asked questions page where you list your frequently asked questions. You have your answers on there. Cool. Hopefully the Google scrapes that and finds my answer and puts it there. If I'm really high tech, I might create a blog post about that frequently asked question and put it there. Not bad. But now it's shifting because AI is trained on these large language models. They're pulling content from all over the Internet and they want to get fed new and fresh content all the time. What this means is that if you are not creating content, video content with transcripts, then these large language models are not going to pull you in as the expert and they're not going to highlight your content inside of that. So what can you do as a business? If someone's asking, how much does a service cost? How often should I do this service, this versus that type of content, and you're not creating content on that, then you're missing out on the opportunity and you're just relying on a blog post from 10 years ago that maybe someone added for a frequently asked question.

Got it. So it's just content marketing is becoming more and more of a thing than it was say two or three years ago for the contracting space specifically.

That's right. And the cherry on top of this, I used to be a Neil Patel, like SEO numbers guy. And the shift that had that's helped me is that there's this guy, you probably know him, Tommy Mello, home service millionaire. He built a $200 million business. And if you were to look at his Facebook posts and ads building a $200 million business, he had nothing like barely any Facebook post. He didn't even believe in Facebook ads or Facebook posts. However, now it's shifting because it's not just about post a video and you get some leads and woohoo. I'm doing social media. It's you're training these large language models that you are the authority and the subject matter experts, which is why it's shifting. Yes, but people still haven't made that connection yet of like I'm making this content because it's not just to get leads or to get likes, it's to actually train these large language models on content.

Who's the authority? Who's the biggest, loudest voice that's answering the questions that specifically our customers are looking for as well. It's not just any content, it's relevant content which we'll get into in a little bit.

That's right.

Is that any different to how say ChatGPT or in app, what we call it Geo generative search is. Is it the exact same principle? Is there anything different when I'm just in chatgpt asking it for help fixing my fence or you know, whatever landscaping my backyard? How does it recommend jobs? You know, Joe's landscaping versus Bill's landscaping.

Yeah, great question. So Google has their EAT principles. It's four things. E, E A T experience, expertise, authority and trust. So the AEO is creating direct, they asked, you answer style content. However, you could also inside of that E E A T, you could build trust. You could show your experience like hey, check out this project that we've just worked ON that was $20,000 at this person's house and we built this thing, blah blah blah. That's not directly answering a question. It's showing your experience or expertise. And this is the type of content that they want to see from you. But a lot of times it's hidden in your cell phone or nowhere. Right. You're not using company cameras, other tools to capture things, and then you're not leveraging it on your website or inside of content and it's just hidden from these large language models. So to answer your question, there's a layer to they ask you answer answer style content, but also showing your expertise, experience, authority and trust inside of your content that doesn't just answer questions.

Okay, I'm just writing that down. We'll come back to this in a bit. So, so this is kind of, let's just start with these definitions. We've got our traditional SEO, we've got AEO and we've got before we go off of all of this, what level of like focus, money, time, energy should I still be putting into the good old fashioned SEO? Like should I be ditching it tomorrow and rushing over to These other things, how do I, how do I balance my energy, effort and dollars in these things?

Yeah, great question. So there's a, there's a lot of this going on in the SEO space and marketing space in particular. But what people are saying, and I agree with this, is that the old school SEO strategy, which is create service area pages, get Google reviews, make sure your title tag meta description H1 is all clean with your service and your city that you want to target and have like a very, very good SE local SEO strategy. All of those things still go into the perplexity ChatGPT, Google AI mode because there it's basically what I tell people to do is go on Perplexity chatgpt, whatever and type in H Vac Repair near me or whatever it looks like for your service, H Vac Repair in Dallas, Texas. It's going to give you results. Ask it, how did you come up with these results? What was the criteria you used to find these results? It's going to tell you what it used. Then you can say, well, why did you not pick me? What am I missing? What do I need to focus on? It's going to tell you the stuff that you need to do. So what do you get rid of? What do you focus on? In my opinion, it's the old school SEO stuff that you were doing is going to then transition to the new school stuff. It's more about adding the content piece on top of it, which has shifted the game of content just for likes and shares and maybe some leads to actually bolstering the old school SEO stuff when it comes to the AI platform. Does that make sense?

It does. And you know what I think about with this, because I see this in our own marketing team, is like in a world of AI where it's like it's going to replace everyone's jobs. I'm like, I think it's actually creating more work right now. I think it's actually giving us more things to do.

So.

Interesting.

Yeah. So don't, don't ditch, you know, the SEO stuff. Still have a local SEO strategy for search engine results page. Still 80% of searches are happening there. It's going to continue to shift. But the beauty is that the old school stuff that you were doing is going to help you in the new phase of search. I'll say one thing about this. The old crusty Companies that have 6,000 reviews that have their head in the sand because they have a hundred thousand dollar ad budgets, they have, they dominate Google search. All they've been doing SEO for 15 years. Those are the companies that. There's a land grab on the other side of things because they're going to get beat by people that create content to compete over there as the authority, because these large language models are getting trained on the content that's being created. So for smaller guys that are trying to compete with these behemoths that have been around for 50 years, there's a huge opportunity over on the other side. So don't just, you know, this is exciting times because before people would ask me, I'd be like, you can't compete with them. It's, it's, you know, like, we can still do this stuff, but it's going to be hard. There's a land grab happening on the other side.

Is a, is a new gold rush coming? And not all the claims are state or not all the claims are staked yet. People gotta, can get in there early. And, and I see this too, like, you know, with marketing, even on our end, we have our way of doing things and the change management required is arguably gonna be harder than somebody who has never done any of this and just starting from scratch because they can build with the end in mind with this new model coming, coming up and online.

Exactly.

Okay, so let's talk about becoming a content authority, because this is kind of the theme that you're, you're bringing up here, which is we need to shift more content marketing. Like, how much of this should we be focused on at this point? Like, should I go and spend 10 hours a week filming myself and putting out our job sites? What do I need to be doing right now to start this content authority process?

All right, I'll give you two things. First, you should have some type of a company cam tool at your disposal, or even a Google Drive where you put pictures in your texts or your salespeople, they have stuff on their phones. You need to pull that information out because that's going to be real content that you can post online. And it's not just, you know, generic pictures that kind of, you need real pictures. So that's. The first thing is try to pull out your pictures from your team, your text, cell phones. The second thing is this. You can get, I'm going to give you the framework. You can get your content loop down to about one or two hours per month. This is what we do as a company to help home service businesses. But this is what I do too, personally as a business owner. What we do is we take the real content. So think about your calls that you have you have transcripts for those calls or think about your sales calls. You get frequently asked questions that come through. And once per month you have a theme. So January, February, March, April, May, we have a content calendar where you have a theme for every month. Let's say it's spring. You're doing spring tune ups for H Vac. You know the common questions you're going to get. You know how many times you should do your spring tune up, why you shouldn't do your spring tune up. So you come up with hooks. Just ask Chat gbt, plug a transcript into Chat gbt, come up with your hooks and let's say you get like 10 to 20 hooks and a hook is. Most people overlook a spring tune up until they have no AC for seven days in the summer. Here's what you should do. That's like a hook. Then you want to solve the problem. Don't sell, you want to solve. Here's why most people miss out on the spring tune up and they have no AC in the summer and it's because blah, blah, blah, blah, solve the problem for them. Then you want to agitate a little bit. Don't get stuck with no AC in the summer. And then a quick call to action, shoot us a message. We have technicians standing by. We can come out to your house tomorrow and do a spring tune up. That framework right there could take about an hour or two. Then you plug it into a tool like Opus, which is a Opus AI. It's like a clips company that will take your videos and then put the captions on it for you. And now you have content going out. The most important thing to this whole equation is that you have transcripts on these platforms that's being read by these large language models. So to answer your question, I'm not saying go out and hire a videographer and you know, become some influencer or something like that. All I'm saying is take the first step to answer your customers questions via video and try to get some nice captions on there as best as possible. Worst case, open up Instagram, open up TikTok, start a video, they already have captions that will be added to it. And just answer some questions every day, once a week, whatever, and start getting the familiarity with these platforms to be able to create content and comfortability.

Can we, can we go deeper into this? Because what you just said is awesome. I just want to make sure everyone knows how to do like some of the details. So you said the most important thing is getting transcripts. And I remember in Our prep call, you had spoken to this. I don't believe that everybody listening even knows how to get a transcript from their live sales meeting when they're going and doing, estimating maybe from their like call recordings, but even how do we get transcripts from all of the conversations we're having out in the field and in the office every single day?

Yeah. Okay. If you use a tool like Service Titan or CallRail or any type of call tracking phone numbers for ads or something else else, all of those platforms would have the transcript available to those phone numbers. If you go into CallRail, you can click on transcripts and you can see the transcripts. What we do is we take the transcripts and we look at ones that are longer than three or five minutes because usually in there they have some real customer questions and feedback. You have your subject matter experts, your CSRs in tandem with your customer questions. So if you take that transcript, plug it into ChatGPT and say based off this conversation, write a blog post based on this conversation, write a social media post based on this conversation, give me five hooks that would help educate this customer ahead of time. Now you have this content loop of real questions from your customers. And it's not just asking ChatGPT for fluff stuff that has no idea about your business. The second thing. Oh, Phil, I don't use call. I don't use call tracking numbers. My guys are out in the field. Whatever. Have them use voice memos on their phone. So they open up voice memos, click, record. That voice memo has a transcript attached to it. You can do the exact same thing. Plug it into ChatGPT. It's a 30 minute sales conversation. What are the questions that came up? That I can educate my customer beforehand. So that way I go into this conversation knowing what they want. There's this flywheel of content that most businesses miss out on because they just rely on ChatGPT for fluff stuff and they're not using the real content that's in their business because they don't know how to connect the dots. And that is a very simple way to connect the dots.

Is there any. I've seen them online. I actually don't know the name. Do you know any specific? There's a clip on that actually will take all your day's recordings and actually start to summarize. And there's a new company coming out doing this. Do you happen to know the name? I can't remember myself.

No, I don't know the name. There is a. There's a tool called Rilla, which Sebastian Jimenez, he created this tool which will record your sales calls for you out in the field and then it will actually educate you and your team based off of your actual data. Which is a really cool tool but maybe less sophisticated. Is probably this clip on tool which I'm not familiar with that tool.

No, I know that ChatGPT is like coming out with something with Apple and they're doing that. I'm pretty sure that's what it's going to be. That's what everyone thinks it is anyways.

That'd be pretty sick.

But it came from another company that did a TED talk a year prior and there's a big legal battle going on and I can't remember the name of the company. Oh wow.

Like it was their idea and then they took it. I think it's great because imagine that process, you just have it and then it can funnel in and coach you and I think it's great. We, my company, we use Fathom to record our sales calls and Fathom gives us a transcript so then we can plug into things and get, you know, high level understanding of what's going on. And you can use this from a management perspective too. You have five sales calls and just ask them what are the common questions. Then you go into your sales meeting and you talk about the common questions.

I so we've been starting to do this internally for us and first thing I noticed is we we store everything, all of our transcripts right now in Google Drive and with the new chat, this is specific to ChatGPT. I don't use the other platforms as much, but there's the deep add on mode you got to pay for, I think plus or Pro or teams. You can then use that Deep research to then click to connect your Google Drive. You can then have it pull from your Google Drive live while stuff's going in there all the time. Is it. Have you seen people do this before? It's kind of new. It's like just came out in the last month or two I think. But any thoughts or comments on this research?

With the deep research thing, I think that's really clever to pull it all together with your workspace. Like that's so good. Fathom, which is what we use. It kind of has that roll up in the back end of Fathom. But I think business owners, it's so hard because it's like there's so many tools out there but it's like this is a simple workflow. Take the recordings put into Google Drive for this month Then plug it together and then get the stuff out. And you could use it for your management meetings. You can use it for your marketing stuff. There's a million different applications. It's just about. This is why I started by prefacing. You got to get the stuff out of the off the field. Like it's. That's the biggest hurdle most people run into.

Can we go more granular on the workflow? I know you described it, but. So I think we've covered transcripts pretty good.

Yeah.

Now I've got these transcripts. What do I, what do I do with them? Like physically, like, what am I, what's the next step? To get it into a video that I'm recording myself, to get it into a blog. Like, how do I turn all this stuff into one nice little workflow process that I can build up for. For the company?

Yeah, for sure. So you take the transcript, you come up with a prompt. So a prompt is just something you put into chat gbt and it could say like, hey, analyze this transcript and come up with five or ten hooks that would educate this customer.

Explain what a hook is too. I assume it's just a. Is it a headline with an article below it or just a headline?

A hook for video content is the first five seconds of the video and maybe even three seconds. And a hook would be like, most people think AI is for this, but it's actually for this. Most people think that they have an H VAC problem when they actually have a duct, air duct problem or something like that. It's a hook that captures their attention, that they want to keep watching.

Got it.

In home service, it's very easy if the business owner just starts talking about the real, like crazy situations that they've faced as a business owner and then come up with a hook afterwards. But that is what a hook is. You, you put your transcript in, ask for the hook, which is the starting conversation. And then from there what we do is we get on a call. We actually use Riverside. We get on a call with them like this, and we say, hey, so here's the first hook, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Then we say, you say that, Then they say it. Then we say, okay, now we're going to solve the problem. So what is the solution to this problem? And then they talk about the solution and then we agitate the problem. So don't get stuck with no ac. Send us a message and we'll have a technician come out to you. So that's the framework. You could do that just on your phone. You could get on a call with someone like this, you could have a marketing person help you, but it's essentially trying to get this information out. Now if you don't, if you're like, video is not for me, I don't want to be on video. You could have your sales manager do it or salesperson do it because usually they have to be a little bit more, you know, energetic about it or just prompt it and say, take this call transcript and turn it into a blog post. This is a flywheel of content. Imagine every single day if you took a five minute long conversation and made a blog post about it. You would have a gold mine of content for your customers. Not, I'm kind of hinting at this, but not only imagine you have a new hire come on and you train them with all the content you've been creating because now you have a whole deck of content that they can train on. So there's a million applications, but that's the basic framework for it.

So get my transcripts, figure out my hooks, then bring in my customer. Like real customers that this relates to will have that very specific conversation, film that conversation and then we'll put that out to the world and then we'll use the transcript of that conversation to further build blogs and other other mediums. I guess you'd say yes.

The more real interactions that you can have with customers and pull that information out, the better because that's your real customers asking that. So you don't want to just be beholden to whatever ChatGPT comes up with. If you can take the real stuff that your customers are asking makes tons of sense.

So now you had mentioned in our prep call, take all this and start to do, you know, the like content authority branding piece to your organization. But we're still going to run ads, are we not? And so how are we using this to help influence our paid ads and what we're actually doing on the paid side?

Yeah, this is the beauty of it. Gary Vee, he has a book called Day Trading Attention and what he talks about in that book is this exact principle. A lot of people run meta ads, Facebook, Instagram and also TikTok ads or YouTube ads. But they have no idea if the creative is good or not. They're just gambling with their ads because they don't have any content. So what he recommends, and I recommend this too, is create the organic content first. Then it's then the platforms are going to tell you what gets the most engagement and has legs, then turn that into your ads that you run because you already know that it's engaging and then add a call to action at the end. So yes, you can still run ads. One caveat to this search is still dominated on Google. So the search engine results page is where the warmest leads happen. So I wouldn't go out and tell people, take all your Google Ads and run Facebook ads on them. Right. I don't know any seven figure home service businesses that have been built on Facebook ads. But what I am saying is that if you are running Facebook ads and you want to do more brand awareness, then now you at least have a starting point of organic content that we know is going to be interactive that you can run ads with.

Got it. So all your organic content is just basically going to be your hierarchy of whatever's most popular. That's where we're going to go and put some paid behind and actually add a more specific cta. Maybe change it slightly.

Exactly. When you say that, doesn't it sound like, oh well, of course that makes sense. The problem is that a lot of people just run paid ads and they just trust their agency to do whatever. And it's like, how do we know that this is actually going to work? Which is why when someone asks us, we say let's start with content, then we get that dialed in, then we roll out with these Facebook and meta ads.

That's one thing you're talking about. And it's like I've seen this with agencies too. Like if it's too hands off, they're like it's all packaged, it's all good. Like we'll take it and see you later and then we'll come back with some leads for you. It doesn't really work, does it? Like you have to be in lockstep with your, what you're describing is like a weekly back and forth to get this like workflow to actually happen. If you're working with an agency.

Yeah. And this is the exact issue that I had. So I was, I was director of business development trying to grow a home service business and I'm working with the agencies that are just cookie cutter. You know, it's a random person that just graduated college who doesn't know anything about home service businesses or something. And that's why I call my company a consulting company because we, we have consultants on our team that have built seven figure local service businesses and they're working directly with these companies. And it's like the back and flow, like back and forth flow. And so yes, there's A consultative approach to what needs to. Whether that's, you know, working with a company like ours or someone else. You have to have someone who's kind of guiding you and working directly with you, not just cookie cutter fluff.

Makes sense, man. While we were doing this prep, I remember I was thinking about one question. It almost seems obvious at this point, but I am curious to get your opinion. Company brand versus human face. Is it important? Is one more important than the other? Can you mix them? There are owners out there that are like, I don't want to put my face out there. And I feel like you're saying is we kind of have to, but, like, can you justify that? Can you tell us?

Yeah, we've had both sides of this equation, I would say, right. If. If the. The brand and the. The human touch of it. Some owners are very, you know, like, that's their unique identifier. Especially with PE coming in and all these, you know, outside funds, they're like, no, this is me. This is my company. My kids went to this high school, and this is my light. Like, this is what I do. I'm this community person. Those people all day. You should be on video because you can speak the language and talk to talk of your local community. Other companies are like, no, I'm kind of building this more faceless, and I don't want to be the focal person because maybe I want to exit or something like that. That's totally fine. Have your CSR record some of the videos. Have your office manager have your sales team. Sales team's usually the best one because they're more comfortable talking live with people. But use your team to make the content and have them in branded stuff. And a really cool thing that you can do with this is literally just go to the job site with your text right in their truck and just, you know, have the truck pull up the video, go to your tech and start asking them questions and kind of coach them through it. It's just way more natural and organic than something that's scripted or seems like that. So I don't think that it has to be the owner. I think it just depends on the brand that you're building and also the extent that you want to be involved in the actual marketing of the company.

Cool. So, yeah, so it doesn't have to be, you know, the head cheese, but it does have to be people. It sounds like the people forward approach versus, like, just the brand itself and a little less emotion. Right. So you want to have the emotion part of it.

I. I Had Neil Patel on my show, and I asked him specifically and. And Marcus Sheridan, too. I asked them both about AI avatars and creating content because, like, I have an AI avatar that's been trained on all my content, and I could make a video AI. Phil. The problem is, is that right now it's. You can tell it's AI. Yeah, it's not good enough. The other thing is that I think there's a level of trust that's built with real people and even, like, messing up, like saying ums or likes a lot or something. It's just like you get. You get attached. You like, you feel it. You feel the transformation of energy. Whereas a video with no face to it, it just feels like, oh, this is just kind of basic stuff. There's no attachment or connection. So I think that having a face in a video with a logo connects a lot more. And try not to be too polished, because even too polished seems a little less in touch.

We want real. And I think that's a theme that we're all seeing is like, because AI is taking on so much now, real stands out more than it ever has. And the ability to be just you and be real about everything that's going on in your business. Inside note. And people can relate because we're just all a bunch of crazy humans. So.

That's right. Yeah. I have a LinkedIn post and I'm like, AI would never say, but I just said here. Right. Because there's so much AI content that's out there. They just want real interactions. Human interactions, totally.

There will come a day when we won't be able to tell what is real and what is not. But it's not here yet. And hopefully, hopefully over a couple more years. Yeah.

Add a blemish into this photo over here. Make sure that this is misspelled.

It's gonna. It's gonna figure it out. It's just not yet. Now, in our prep call, we were. We were talking a bit about personalized video, and that was more during the, like, the lead has come in now and there's a drip sequence being brought forward to this person. Can you walk us through that a little bit?

Yeah. So huge opportunity here for businesses, especially if you send out custom estimates to your clients. Like, you go out there, you send them a custom estimate opportunity for personalized video. I'm gonna walk you through four videos that someone can record in the next 10 minutes and plug them into process, and it's going to increase your conversion rate 10 or 20%. So when someone fills out a form on your website or calls your business, you need to put them into a nurture sequence. They need to get a text, email right away. And in that text or email, you want to put a video. And it could be you as a business owner or someone else on your team, but you basically want to say, hey, Phil, thanks so much for reaching out to us. Just want to take a second to introduce myself. Started the business 20 years ago. My kids went to this school. What we're based on here is da da da da da. I want to thank you for trusting us. And it's my job to make sure that you have a successful blah, blah, blah. So have a video in there that introduces your business to this new person. It's going to make you stand out initially because no one's doing that. The second video, when you send an estimate to someone, you can do two types of videos here. You can record a video that says, hey, here's the top five questions that we get on every single estimate. Let me go through them with you right now and just educate them through that process. Or if you send big estimates out, just record a quick loom video l o o m and break down the entire estimate. Just say like, hey, I picked this because of this. I picked this because of that. And then send it to them. With the proposal, you're going to convert 10%, 20% more. The third video, and this is probably the one that most people never think about, but it's a huge opportunity, is when someone approves your quote. Any business, my business included, someone approves your quote. They are at the ultimate high of working with you. They are so excited. They just signed their thing. They want to get started right away. This is when you need to introduce another video or some excitement. Oh my gosh, I can't wait to work with you. So the video would be like, hey, thanks. A little bit more excitement. Hey, thanks so much for signing your your quote with us. Can't wait to get started on your project. Here's what to expect next. Our team's going to reach out in the next 24 to 48 hours to get this scheduled. We're going to start ordering materials and then we're going to get da da da da da. So something that gives them a level of excitement when they just sign the agreement. And then the last video is after the invoice. You want to send them a video that thanks them. If you haven't got a review inside of your process yet, that's good. But you want to ask them For a referral, you want to say, hey Phil, thanks so much for working with us, really appreciate you, your trust and I'm so thankful that we had the opportunity to solve this problem. As a local business in the local community, the number one way that we grow is through referrals. One of the best ways you can do that is by sharing your project with someone else on social media. Whatever. It will really mean a lot to me that, that process right there. I guarantee people that are listening to this, if you implement that in your business, you're. There's no way that you can't close more deals by having that inside of a workflow.

The one you just described, which ones are the same video just being sent out in a sequence and which ones are the custom videos that are. Are they all custom and personal along the whole journey? Because it sounds like some of them like when a lead first comes in.

Yeah, the, the only custom one I would say. Yeah, the only custom one I would say is when you are creating an estimate and it's a long, big estimate. Make a custom loom video for like two or three minutes and just go through it and answer their questions. All the other ones, you can make it pretty standard, just pre record them, plug them in and you should be good.

Cool. What, what's the overall impact of this? You were mentioning like your sales ratio will go up by 10 or 20% based on the data you've seen working with customers pre post doing this. What are you seeing in the data?

Yeah, we have one company, they were closing pretty good. They were at 42% close rate and they increased a 58% close rate by implementing an estimate nurture sequence and this lead follow up process as well. There's other things in there. Like in your estimate nurture sequence, you send out an estimate, you should have some type of email, text, cadence following up with your estimates and also have an expiration date on your estimates. So that way you get to a yes or no either way after like 30 days. But setting up these systems in your business, a lot of companies don't have them set up or they think they have them up, but they're manual. But you need to automate them and streamline them to connect with your CRM.

Totally. Yeah. So they, they just kind of like it sounds complicated. Sounds like a good idea. We're not doing it. And then there's this huge manual effort required because a. You went some 40. 40 to 50, 42 to 58%. You're talking about 1 in 10 basically more people closing with you had you not had this in place versus if you do have this in place. And I always think about that when I think about sales, I'm like, it's not we're trying to sell every single person you meet with, but I bet you there's one in ten that we're missing. And when you extrapolate that out by how many quotes you do in a year and what your average job size is, that can be hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars in lost potential revenue with no extra work because the quotes are still being done, but that one extra person's going forward because they're connecting in a way that maybe you didn't in that one interaction you had during the quote or during the phone call or or so on.

So that's right. And I'll give you one other cherry on top. So the content, the frequently asked question content, stuff that you're creating before, which is, you know, for SEO, large language models, when you do your retargeting. So you send out an email every single month based off the content, calendar and themes. All you have to do is just take your best producing blog post, best producing social media posts, recent customer testimonial about the topic. So let's say you're selling a duckless system now. You have your email campaign already built based off the best content and you're educating that customer to bring them back into the funnel. You're not trying to figure out what am I going to write or whatever. You're just the greatest hits of that month putting it together and sending it out. So it's going to help you get more leads coming in too while also optimizing your funnel. So this is why video I think is so important to do.

It's just one big flywheel. It's one big loop. One's feeding the other continuously and you're staying relevant through the, through osmosis, basically through doing what you do every day.

Exactly.

Amazing.

Exactly.

Just a couple other just questions on this, things I see out there during the sales and marketing process I want to get your opinion on. So first one was just AI chatbots. So when you put them on your site, is this actually helping? Is this hurting? What are the pros and cons of having like an AI chatbot sitting on your site at this in this day and age?

Yeah, what we found, like with AI chatbots, you know, you go to e commerce website, it's okay, like as consumers we'll converse with it and try to solve our problem. Usually with Home service businesses, there's a couple questions that they want to know. How much is it going to cost and when can you do it? It and okay, it's nice to be able to have a chatbot answer their questions. I prefer to have it as a text chat widget. So basically they fill out their information and then it texts them and starts a text conversation and then have some automations or AI on the back end of that to support the conversation. Because no one's going to sit on the site and communicate with AI. They're going to get frustrated and leave. I'd rather capture the lead and then automate some type of responses with chat or AI. So that's my $0.02. There are companies out there that build these AI knowledge bases in chat. I just feel like it's a hindrance on capturing leads and that's why I don't like to do it.

Yeah, they haven't given you their info yet so you might lose them in that conversation before you even get a chance to get to know who they are. So good to know. This leads into my next question actually, which is speed to lead. So what AI follow up stack should we be using for these calls, text, emails and should we be using them versus just being more organic and human?

Yeah. Oh yeah, for sure. So what you want to do is when someone fills out a form on your website, you want to have a text and email go out right away because you have three channels, phone call, text or email. So you might call them at some point, but you want to text an email to open up that conversation. And inside of that conversation you want to say, hey Phil, thanks so much for reaching out to us. If you could send over a quick picture so we can get some more information. Also what address do you have? Or something like that. That way they feel like they're moving the ball forward. What home owners do, all of us, we go on the websites, we look for the companies, we reach out to them and then we say, okay, I'm done. We'll see when they reach back out to me. When you text or email them, you move the ball even more forward. So you stand out as the team that's moving the ball forward even more and you're getting the pictures. And that's the usual initial thing. Set up a quick automation to ask for pictures, address to move the ball forward. Then inside of the lead processor, estimate nurture sequence. A really good nugget here is a lot of people just reach out and say, hey Phil, you know, are you still thinking about getting this done. Do you have any questions about this? When you should reframe it and say, hey, Phil, you're still having issues with your H vac unit? Hey, Phil, you still having claw gutters, whatever that is, you want to make sure that you're, you know, getting at the problem. To say like, hey, you still didn't solve this. You still don't solve this. Is it still a problem you're having? Yes or no? Instead of just being that nagging salesperson, you want to agitate the problem and, and position yourself as a solution.

Got it. So instead of just like, let's do it, instead of asking about what you want, which is due to the quote, you're saying, is your issue still there? Let's talk about the issue. Let's poke that. And then Lee will come to me and say, I need a quote. Okay.

Yeah, exactly.

Let's talk about self service now. So, like schedulers, configurers, self pricing, estimators, stuff like that. Where do we use them? How do we use them? What's the best way to get results from these things?

Yeah, this was one of the things at the home service business that I was working at that we implemented was an estimate calculator. And what we found is that three questions is good. So you want to ask for there for their name, email, phone number, and then three questions. Usually it could be like residential or commercial, square footage of the home or type of home, and then one other qualifier. And what we found with implementing this was they generate an additional hundred leads from their website. So about 5% of their website traffic into leads by implementing an estimate calculator on their website. So no matter. I mean, pretty much any business you could have an estimate calculator for pretty much anything and give them a ballpark number of. It's going to be 200 to 800 and then you start that cycle again to get you a better quote or a cleaner estimate. Can you send over a picture so that way I can look at it and you start the cycle again. An estimate calculator is great. The other one, if you do really high ticket stuff, is some type of like a quiz or, you know, the PDF guides and stuff. People will download those, but not as much. Usually the quiz, like what's your style quiz? Or what would look best in your home type of quiz and then asking for the picture afterwards moves the ball forward and gets them, you know, through your, your actual attraction offer. So those would be the biggest things. Estimate calculator, chat widget, and then some Type of a quiz or something inside of those.

So do we, so I just want to be clear on this. Do we say get rid of the chat widget or keep it? Because on the website I'm. What I'm picturing what you just said is boot out the auto chat, let that chat be more on text and email. Once they give you their info, put in place auto estimators so Pearson can kind of get a bit of a price or get some inquiry from that. Then there's an auto chat that kicks in, that's the text and email and then away we go from there. Is that, is that accurate?

I would. You definitely want to have a chat widget there because people are going to ask questions on your website, they're not going to dig through your website to find things but the automation that runs after run it through what you're saying. So like a chat happens automation, a form happens automation, an estimate calculator happens automation. So now you're moving the ball forward with whatever channel this person picks up, you're moving the ball forward for them.

When we say speed to lead, what is the expectation these days that a customer is hearing from you? Is it 30 seconds, is it three minutes, is it five hours, like somewhere? It's pretty tight now, isn't it?

Yeah, it's like 10 minutes that they say you got 10 minutes. Because that person think about someone who wants to get their gutters clean, they are going online and submitting forms to probably three different people because they're going to get three estimates and then they're going to make a decision from there. They read the reviews already, they went to the website and they're picking these people. Rarely do people get just one estimate. They're going to reach out to a couple different people. So if you can text them and email them right away and ask for a picture and move the ball forward, you're going to initially stand out and close more deals. So yes, speed to lead is everything. The other thing to this is answering the phones. So there's ways to do like missed call text backs or AI answering services. But I always recommend that as a last resort, not a first resort. But yes, you got to answer your phones, you got to respond to customers. We have clients where we turn on the AI automations and, and they don't respond to those text messages and then they lose leads. So there needs to be a human element that picks up the ball and gets stuff on the boards.

This whole human AI thing too, do we care that it's AI responding In that immediate fashion, do we hide behind it? Do we not? I imagine just like just put it out there. If the customer thinks it's totally fine, or should we actually come out and say, hey, this is an AI chat bot here to help you?

Yeah. So if it's AI chatbot, come out and say that. Like, if someone were to call Flash Consulting, we have an AI answering service, says, hi, I'm Flash's AI receptionist. I can answer most of the questions, schedule calls, whatever. But inside of the automation process, there's two things. Automation and AI. I like to default to just automation first and then CSR or someone pick it up the ball from there because in my opinion, it's going to do better and it knows what's going on on the dispatch board and everything compared to AI. But if it is AI, then introduce AI and let them know because they're going to start asking questions, going to start talking crazy, and they're going to get frustrated and that's what you don't want.

Yeah, you don't lose trust, which is good. And I think, like, it hasn't been that long, but I do see most of us kind expect some sort of AI interaction early on and we're totally cool with it. I was actually doing this with my Internet provider the other day, just trying to get through on a few things. So cool. Yeah, okay, this is a lot. We just talked about everything that has to do with AI for sales and marketing within this. Those who are like, hey, I just, I want to stay up to date on these types of things. How do we learn about, you know, Geo AEO changes? How do we learn about what's coming without overwhelming ourselves? What are some simple places to go and how do we, how do we stay up to date on this stuff?

Yeah, well, definitely the, the first thing I would say is maybe set like a reminder every week or once a month and just do some searches on ChatGPT, Google AI mode and just see what it's showing and then ask it, like I told you, prompt it, like, how did you come with these results? What's changed over the last month that I should be aware of, like inside of these search results? And it's going to kind of give you the, the basic bones there. So just by using the tools, you'll get a little bit more understanding of them. The other thing would be obviously listening to podcasts like this YouTube videos and staying top of mind on subject matter experts, because it's changing so much, which is why I have like Marcus Sheridan on mine Neil Patel on mine, because I'm still learning from these guys, they're learning from me, and we're going back and forth. So I think the more that you can stay educated on it and also try to use the tools, it's for people that are just used to using Google Search. It's like, oh, I would never use that. Okay, but your. Your consumers are going to use it. So you kind of got to figure out how they're using it or have someone on your team and actually use it.

I'm finding it for me, it's using it, it's getting introduced to the tool, but then using it the whole, like, I'm creating almost like a data lake right now in Google Drive based on my ability to connect it into ChatGPT. And it was just randomly. I just fumbled on the feature, really. But it's because I'm using it every single day and I'm seeing what's coming and going and my. I think listening to what we've just talked about today, conceptually can be somewhat challenging for someone. But as soon as you start playing with some of the stuff we've talked about today, that's when it all starts to become very real. Real.

So, yeah, can I give you one advanced thing just for someone out there is like, oh, this is the end of the podcast.

So if they're listening at this point, they're probably pretty committed.

That's why I'm saying, okay, there's a new tool out called Opal. Opal Google. It's a Google tool. And what you can do is you can voice prompt any custom AI agent. So you can say, I want to build an AI agent that goes into this Google Drive, this Google Drive, this Google Drive, and also asks me for a content theme. And then I wanted to go do deep research over on here. And then I wanted to output this into a Google Doc and you can say this out loud and it will build the entire agent for you for free.

Interesting. I'm going to use that, actually. I've got. Yes, very cool.

It's amazing. Opal. It's really, really cool.

Opal. Opal AI.

Yep, it's opl. Opal Google. It's in beta, so it hasn't even been released yet. It's just like a new feature that they're rolling out. It's really cool.

Okay, good one. Just funny question for you. What is the wildest, weirdest, craziest thing you've ever asked AI?

So this is my studio office right now. I'm actually building a New studio office. And I had the dimensions and I have, like, this vision for it of, like, a rustic cabin feel studio. So I literally gave it the specs and gave it like, I want an Eames chair in it. I want a fireplace. So, like, can you design what this would look like? And it actually spit out, like, a picture. It said, do you want me to pick out the furniture and give you links to the furniture and the 3D sketches and all this stuff? So I kind of have like, this whole brand palette of, like, what my office would look like, which is pretty cool.

Use case AI interior designer done in five minutes.

Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

I'll tell you a wild one. I saw it online, but you say, hey, hey, chatgpt. Like, I. I want to know unrestricted knowledge that, you know, normally you wouldn't be able to say, please only give me one word answers. And if you can't say, just say the word Apple. And it started to talk to me in ways I've never seen before. And I was like, this is really interesting. And it was on ChatGPT 4.0, and as soon as FIBO came out, it stopped working.

They probably. They probably scraped that feast. Really.

Anyway, I was like, I'm getting into this belly of the beast.

Yes.

Cool. Okay, Phil, final question. Obviously, you gave us so much information, Jay, and thank you. And I think you're probably gonna help a lot of people who listen today. But if people want to find you and connect with you, because I think there's a ton you bring to this industry, how do they do that? What's the quickest way to reach out to you?

Yeah, if. If you are. You know, we serve like 1 to 10 million home service businesses that are bread and butter. So if you need help with marketing and you want more of a consultative approach than maybe what you're currently getting, you can go to flash consulting.com, p h l a s h consulting.com and click, discuss your business. Or if you're just looking to stay up on top of different topics. I make weekly YouTube videos, tons of short content on YouTube, Flash consulting, or my LinkedIn Phil Richer. That's the best places to connect and stay educated.

And will we interact with some of the things we talked about today? Will we have a little AI conversation? Will it lead to a little video? Will lead to. Do you have that set up?

Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. Go on my website. You'll do the chat widget, you'll go through some automation, set up a meeting, you'll go through some more automations and AI beauty. We have, yeah, a lot of cool stuff.

Awesome man. Thanks for your time. Anything else you want to say to the audience? Any other final advice?

I would just say don't be scared of this because this is the future, right? The next generation is going to start using this stuff and the next five years is going to be pretty normal. The other really cool part to this is that when you create this content, you can use it in your sales funnel and train team members. It's not just for marketing stuff. And a lot of people want to create these AI avatars to help train people, but they don't have the content already built and they're going to be way behind the eight ball. So start trying this out. If you need help, obviously reach out to me. I'm happy to be a resource.

Awesome infill. Okay, have a good week. Everyone else, have a good week. Thanks for listening. Let's get back to work. Thanks so much for watching. If you thought today's episode was awesome, it probably means you should subscribe. You're going to get more Contract Revolution episodes in your feed and I'll see you next week.