What Every Local Service Business Must Know in 2025

What does it mean to you to be better than rich?

What I realized I built a business to about 200,000 in revenue. And I was at this point where it's like, this is a nice, you know, lifestyle kind of business. There's a story about the parables where you have these talents and you hide them under a rock, you go out and multiply them. I really looked at it in three ways. Can I create a win to help more home service businesses? Yes. Can I create a win and bring on team members that could experience the same lifestyle and experience that I'm having working here? Yes. Then can I create a win that actually makes money from a business perspective, that creates profit? Yes. So when I figured out those three things and now we literally are hitting all of those. So for me, it's all about creating wins and opportunities for everyone. Whole squad eats is basically my whole thing. Like everyone eats. How can we make it all happen?

Welcome back to the better than Rich show. I'm your host today, Michael Bromowitz. And we're Andrew Biggs and Phil Rischer. I am streaming from a Dunkin Donuts today because my Internet is out at my house. But Phil gave me reassurance that the audio sounds good. So thanks for being here and excited for this conversation. Thanks for joining us, Phil.

Oh, yeah, for sure. Thanks for having me, guys.

Well, this is season four, so this is our second episode and this is a little bit new in the sense of having this live stream and also having some individuals that can post some questions live with with us if they'd like to. So I had the privilege of being on your show and we got a chance to jam and you've already made some introductions to some great people, which I was just telling you before we clicked record. But what's so impressive about you of what I found is not only are you have just an unbelievable resume with business, I mean, scaling from 3 million to 5 million before exit and serving hundreds of home service business owners with your marketing and consulting industry. But dude, for you to just be like, yeah, I freestyle rap and I'm a chill dude and like, you know, I'm down to help wherever I can, man. I, I just really loved our conversation. So why don't you kick us off with why How'd you get into home services and why, why this avatar? Why do you like to serve home service business owners? How to, you know, what's the origin there?

Yeah, for sure. Funny story. I didn't plan it this way. My, my dad is a pest control service. Manager. So he's a pest control technician. Since I started, since, since I was born, I used to, you know, do take your child to work day and do ride alongs in his on his routes. So naturally it was very easy to communicate with him because he's my dad. But then when I got into this space with home service business owners, it was like, it's just like I'm talking to my dad. And the way that I kind of figured out the home service side of things was I started working at Enterprise, rent a car right out of school. And I paid off my student loans through Enterprise, saved some money. And when I went in, I ended up going to corporate. Cause I read a book, rich dad, poor daddy's like, you need to learn how to sell. And so I said, I need to go into corporate. So I went into corporate sales and they have this fleet management program where you sell fleet management services to home service business owners that have 20 more vehicles. So I was calling on CEOs and business owners of $20 million businesses, trying to set meetings. And when I would go to those meetings, it was very easy to talk with them because dressed like my dad on top of this, I started a personal blog about personal finance, paying off student loans. I ended up saving up and buying my condo with cash when I was 25. And my wife is a kindergarten teacher. So all her friends were saying, how did you do this? How did you do this? So I would go into these meetings with these business owners, say, what are you guys doing for marketing? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. My blog at the time was getting 30 to 40,000 website visitors per month. And I was featured in Forbes and cnbc, Yahoo Finance, all these cool places. And I was also selling fleet management services. So I ended up quitting my job at Enterprise and I actually bought a tiny school bus. And I traveled around the country and made content and did like email marketing, social content, a whole bunch of stuff. And when I came back from that trip, one of my Clients was a $3 million home service business, air duct cleaning. And he said, hey, I need someone to come in and help me grow my business. And when I went to work there, all my worlds collided. My, my enterprise experience, my sales experience, my digital marketing experience. And he had explosive growth in that time period. And that's pretty much how it all came together, just naturally was in my blood.

Well, I love that story, man. And there's so much, so much to unp there. And I just love the energy that you've brought to everything that you do. Right. Whether it was just starting off doing enterprise and then doing this, the blog, traveling around the country, man, it sounds like you've had a lot of fun, a lot of stories to share there. And then flash marketing now really, flash consulting really focuses on serving these people and helping them grow their businesses. When you look at, you know, like if you were to say like the overall thesis point of the biggest pain point that you see these business owners have that you guys support them with, what is that biggest pain point? Is it leads? Is it systems? Like, what would you say is the biggest challenge for most of these folks in your opinion?

Yeah. So when I started working at the $3 million home service business, this one hit me square in the face. And there's two. The first one is that most of them are working with digital marketing companies and they're praying to the Google gods that they get leads and they don't have a return on ad spend component to their marketing. So they're just throwing money into the black hole of Google Ads or face meta, Facebook, Yelp, Angie Thumbtack, whatever it is. But they don't know what's actually working and so they don't know what to pull up or down with levers and they don't have any information because most home service business owners don't barely use their CRM for reports and most digital marketing companies won't touch their CRMs because it's on you guys. So once I figured that out, I said, okay, in the first two months we need to set up reporting and figure out how we're going to track our return on ad spend and then dial it in from there. That's the first issue, is that most people don't have, they don't know their numbers. You can't. Good decisions, good data, good decisions. You can't. The second thing is that most people don't have a lead problem. They have a lead management problem. Another one that I faced was we fixed all this stuff, we got a bunch of leads, but then our customer service representatives didn't have a lead management process. They're getting one calls and not not closing them. Terrible booking rates, don't have a lead nurture sequence or an estimate follow up process. So they need some type of a conversion funnel to put people in and walk them through those two things. Once you fix those, then you know which levers to pull and you also know how you're going to manage your leads. There's no way you can't grow.

So I, I, I, I say this every time I'M very much a tactical person. So now that you kind of laid the groundwork, I want you to go dig. Like, the stuff that people would probably pay you for is to show them how to, how to increase their conversation. So I want to pull that out of you right now. So if you actually had to share some of the specific best practices, like, you could share, like, third person. Like, I noticed this in this company and this is how we solved it. Or you could be like, hey, like, this is exactly what you should do. Do this, do it yourself. This is exactly what you do. And you could also tie that into, like, what you do. I know you obviously offer like, this done for you, but, like, just, dude, whatever you would be willing to share here, I'm sure people are like, all right, you have my attention. What do I do?

Yeah, I'll share exactly what to do. I'm all about giving the recipe and sell the cooking. I literally have videos on YouTube of exactly what to do, step by step. And I'll walk you through the whole thing. But I'll give you this synopsis with return on ad spend. Here's what you do. You run ads, you send it to a landing page. So a separate page that says flashconsulting.com googleads on that landing page, you have a custom tracking form and a custom tracking phone number. Anytime someone fills out that form or clicks that button to call you, it registers that this is a call from Google Ads or a lead from Google Ads. And you send that into a spreadsheet. Now at the end of the month, in that spreadsheet, you have all your Google Ads leads. Then you go to your CRM, you cross reference how they performed. You put the data in. Then you have, I spent $2,000. I got 10 leads. I closed three of them. My return on ad spend is this. My ROAS is this. And you have it all documented there. So that's how you figure out your return on ad spend number. Very clearly, the lead conversion funnel process is like this. When someone fills out a form on your website, they automatically need to get a text and an email. There was a study that 67% of website, they only get called web forms only get called and 40% of them never even get followed up on. So what you want to do is someone fills out a form, email, text, call, obviously, but you want to hit them in those three communication channels. Some people are texting people, some people call people, some people email people. Then when you contact them and they don't answer because, like, you know, 10 o' clock on a Sunday night, they fill out a form. You call them. Monday, they don't answer. Now you have a text and email thread to follow up on. We had a company that we fixed this literally in their business, and they increased $1.2 million in revenue in four months just by fixing their lead process. So it's very. You just have to have a process. Most people don't.

Well, it's so good. And ultimately, this is something we talk about a lot, which is like, the client experience, you know, and it's so funny. I'm currently in the market for. We're trying to build a custom home. And so, you know, I kind of did the natural thing. I'm obviously putting peelers out to friends in the area, but I'm also just saying, all right, let's just see what's online. And I went and filled out a bunch of them, right? Like, hey, do you know, do you build here? Do you build here? Do you build here? And probably only 50% even got back to me. Some people got back to me relatively slowly. Some of them were right on it, though, right? And we're like, hey, you know, here's our process, here's our site, here's our previous work, here's our portfolio. Let's book a call. And so, you know, that speed to lead factor is so important when we're talking about someone filling out a form. Because a lot of times, you know, you're not the only person providing this service in the area. But if you, you know, ultimately, I'd rather pay someone more who's super on top of it, because I can now trust them, too. Anyway, so I'm like, this person's providing me a great experience through the buying process. I'm sure they're going to do a good job building our home. Right? So, anything you want to say?

Yeah. So there's a study that 7 out of 10 people will pick the first contractor that touches base with them after they felt the form. Like, 70% of people will just go with the first person that contacts them. So the bar is low. I will say this. The customer journey and customer experience. There is four videos that you can make in 10 minutes that's going to pop off, and it's going to make you stand out immediately. The first video is when someone fills out a form on your website, send them that text that, but include a video in there that says, hey, Andrew, Phil here with Flash Consulting. Just want to say thank you so much for reaching out to our business. Can't Wait to serve you. You reach out to the right company. We'll talk to you soon. Second video. When you fill out that estimate, when, when, when they get the estimate from you, you send them an estimate. You send them another video. Hey Andrew, just sent over the estimate. Want to make sure that you got it. If you ever have any questions, feel free to reach out to me. Then when they approve the estimate. Hey Andrew, so great. I saw you sign the estimate. Can't wait to get work. Here's what to expect next. Then after the service. Hey Andrew, thanks so much for choosing us. Just want to remind you my name is Phil. I'm the owner here and we deliver top tier service. If you ever have any issues, please reach out to me. Those four videos take 10 minutes to record and will transform your customer journey and definitely get you more business.

I love that, I love that. So can you recap that? So it's immediately just hey, introduction and then it's appointment, estimate and then post like a post install video.

Yeah. So basically someone fills out a form, send them a video. Right. When they fill out the form, when you send over an estimate to someone, then you want to send a video explaining your estimate. Hey, here's five common questions that we get from this estimate. I just like to answer them to get out in front of it. Then when they sign up, this is the most important one because most people just approve something and they're like, okay, I hope they got it. Like there's a little dopamine hit. So you want to hit them right away. When they approve it, you want to say, hey, I'm so glad you got signed up with us, Andrew. Here's what to expect. Next minute we're going to crush it for you like that. Then after the job you want a follow up, it's like, hey Andrew, thanks for choosing us. By the way, word of mouth is really big for us. If you know anyone else that's in the market, be great for you to refer us. But at the end of the day we just want to make sure we served you well. If you have any issues or anything, feel free to reach out to us.

Yeah, that's beautiful man. So, so much of what we do is we help, you know, obviously design some of that process but then also actually get it done. And what I also find Phil with in particular with, you know, people in this, in this industry or this area, you know, sometimes technology maybe isn't their, their big strong suit. Right. They've been in business for a long time. A lot of them are successful in some ways despite how disorganized their tech stack is or, or how organized their CRM is. And so they get caught in the weeds of like how to do these things. You know, walk me through how you set stuff like that up because a lot of times people get confused or do you have like a recommended tech stack and how are you like triggering these automations? I know this is where I get in the wee.

Yeah.

What would you say?

Yeah, no worries. So there's really like three parts to this, which is digital marketing, CRM data. Right. Because your CRM has data, your marketing team has data. You got to make it all work together. And a lot of times the digital markets put it back on the home, on the, on the business owner to figure out all the data and the CRM stuff. So what we do, what I've realized working there at the company and what we do now is like we tie into CRM. So whether it's jobber, housecall pro, service titan, whatever it is we tie in and layer on top of whatever their sales process, it's a little different for everyone. Some people give estimates over the phone, some people just book dispatch fees that go out. So everyone's a little bit different. But we're trying to tie into the CRMs and figure out what their process. So naturally, like zapier, you can integrate different tools and then connect the dots, chirp, hatch, go high level. I mean there's a right, there's a bunch of different tools that you can use to build automation sequences. It's just about selecting it and building it into your process of how you're going to do it.

Yeah, it's great.

Yeah. And Andrew is definitely geeking out on this stuff way more than me. He is, he is a big nerd when it comes to like tracking and data analytics and, and proudly a nerd.

Yes, of course.

One of the things I'm curious on, obviously we'll usually save this towards the end, but I'd like to know how. What, what are you, what are your Flash consulting. You're actually offering a. Done for you with some of this, if I'm not mistaken. So like what do you. So, so you're giving us the recipe but you're also saying like, I'll cook it for you, but can you, can you walk us through? Like, hey, these are the things that I'm suggesting you do, but like, I'll get this, I'll do this for you. You know, send me, hey, I'm a home, I'm a Home service business owner. And I suggest you do this. But if you don't want to do it, I'll do this for you. What is that?

Yeah, so. So most of the times when people are looking at marketing, they're just thinking of getting new customers, visibility in the door. And we could, you know, talk about all that stuff. SEO, ads, B2B, partnerships, content, social media referrals, postcards, whatever. But there's two other pieces that most miss. There's really three pieces to a good marketing game plan. It's visibility, new customers, conversions, retargeting. So what we look at is visibility. How can we get more leads? How can we convert all that visibility into leads into actual sales? And then how can we retarget your past customers? So retargeting, for example, is huge. Most people have all these prospects and customers sitting in this big blue ocean that they never reach out to or retarget. So we had a company, an H VAC contractor. They weren't emailing any of their customers. So we set up an email nurture sequence that went out once a month. I know we talked about this on our show, Mike, of like, doing this. And basically we sent out 12 emails, and they generated $253,000 just by sending out 12 emails to their past customers. And most people don't do this. Another really important piece of this is having a content calendar. So in different markets, in different cities, people are talking about different things. So there needs to be some layer of content calendar, so you know what you're talking about. But retargeting is really important. And then you bring them back into your funnel to convert them. So that's like the playbook. Visibility, conversions, retargeting, hitting all three, making sure that they're all working together.

Yeah, I love that. So one of the things you also talk about is reporting. You said, okay, there's kind of like ads, CRM and then this data piece. And the data piece is so important because it gives visibility. And like you said, it's definitely not uncommon for us to talk to people, people where they're like, you know, yeah, I hired a marketing, you know, a Google Ads team, Facebook ads team. We're spending, you know, a hundred grand a year on this, and we have no idea, you know, if it's making us money. If it's not, it's very much like a black hole is what I see. So do you want to talk a little bit about reporting structures and how you actually do provide visibility? I mean, one of the things you already mentioned was really tactical of, hey, make sure that each one has this landing page, this phone number, and then that goes into the spreadsheet, and then you can run, you know, analytics off of that. But is there more to it or what do you see?

Yeah. So when I was at the home service business, it was very similar where most home service business owners are going to feel this pain that you talk to your marketing, like, hey, Mike, we got 100 leads this month. And you're like, who are these leads? What. What are these people you're talking about? Everyone's felt that. And then you start to dial, dig in, and you're like, these leads are trash or they're not good. So basically, the reporting that we built out and we do this for our clients, usually by hand, unless we have some API integration, is we're looking at four or five different things. First, we want to see lead count. So we want to see that. Last May, you got a hundred leads. This May, you got 120 leads. So what does that look like? Every single lead should be getting added into some type of tracking. Whether that's in your CRM or some other point, you need to know how many leads you got. As a business, you would want to know how many leads you got. Number two is the number of jobs that you actually ran, because that's going to give you your booking rate, which means I got a hundred leads and I ran 80 jobs. So that means that you're booking 80% of the jobs. Next is the number of estimates that you've done. Estimates is going to allow you to grow your business. You can't grow if you don't have more estimates. So you need to know how many estimates you got. Then you need to know how many estimates you closed or your total sales amount, whatever that looks like, and then your average ticket. So basically, we're pulling this data out, and it will illuminate the problem. The problem is either you're not getting enough leads. You're not. Your sales process is broken because you're not generating enough estimates. You're not running them, your book rates broken, or your average ticket is too low to support your growth numbers, and then there's one like cherry on top, which is your new customers, because in your CRM, you can pull out how many new customers you got, then you can figure out your customer acquisition cost. And this will create the flywheel of, I just need to spend this much money to get a new customer to get leads, and then it kind of continues growth. So a lot of words and stuff but basically, you need to pull those out of your CRM and have them documented somewhere, which we do, because again, if you do marketing, it's all good to get leads, but who cares about leads? We want estimates, then we want actual sales, then we want revenue.

Yeah, and I, I'll just tie a bow on that real quick and I'll kick it to you, Mike, if you have a question. But, you know, it's just funny because sometimes we, again, literally talk to people, and I'm not going to name names right here on the podcast, but you know who you are, where it's like, hey, how many leads did you get last week? A good amount. Hey, what's your closing percentage when you show up to the home? How many deals are we closing on the spot versus follow up versus not closing at all? I'd say most of the time we have a good. It generally goes well. It's like there's zero factual data with some people where they're basically just going off how they kind of feel, and then they just look at their revenue number and they say, well, the revenue keeps going up or whatever, or it doesn't. And that's like their only metric to determine whether or not they are feeling good about it. So I just wanted to throw that out there because what Phil is talking about, guys, is so important. And if you even realized how much potential there was with all these leads that you're getting, you know, and how much potential is left on the, on the cutting room floor or left on the table, you know, you'd be pretty excited about re engaging with those folks. But, Mike, what comes up for you as we're, as we're jamming here?

What I'm curious, on from your seat. I mean, you have, from what I remember, you said, like, 50 plus active clients right now that are home service business owners that you're doing this marketing for, what are you seeing as the biggest challenge? Like, the thing that they're not doing? Like, it makes you like, pound your head against the wall, where it's like, why are you not doing this? Or you keep doing this and it's like, why? Like, what, what would you say is like, stop doing this and start doing this? Or from your seat.

Yeah. So this kind of goes into the conversation that you and I, Mike, had, which is the buyback, your time, the replacement ladder. Because a lot of times, like, we serve 1 to 10 million revenue clients, but like 1 to 3, they get stuck in the sales seat and sometimes even worse in the admin seat of some Things and they're not buying back their time. And like we had a, we had an electrical contractor in San Diego, we helped him go from 50 estimates to 130 estimates. The reason I say estimates because, you know, those were good leads that we helped them generate because they turned into real estimates. The problem is that last year he got 50 some estimates, he closed 26 of them. This year he got 130 estimates and he closed 20 something of them. So his, we got him more leads and more estimates, but he didn't close anymore because he, he's the bottleneck in sales and in admin. So what people fall into the trap is the hero syndrome. And they don't want to buy back their time and actually scale their business. They think, oh, I'll just get more leads. That's going to make me grow. It's not the case. So that's the first thing. The second piece is that lead management process. People say, oh yeah, I have a lead magic process. My CSR is a rock star. Our booking rate's 80%. All these things when they really get into the nitty gritty of what their process looks like with their lead nurture sequence, is it 14 days? Is it 1 day? Is it 21 days? What's our estimate nurture sequence look like? Are we actually looking at our open rates? Are we looking at our conversion rates? After this email we sent, do we have expiration dates on our estimate follow up sequence? Do we not? Are we using video? There's so many pieces in here that people say, oh yeah, that's working, but they're not actually auditing what they're doing to make sure that it's working the best that it could. So that's the part that most people miss. They might have a process, but it's not great.

Yeah. And if I could. Go ahead, Mike.

No, no, no, no. You got it. Yeah, yeah. You're, you're, this is, this is your seat, man.

Well, I was just going to say like there is a lot there that, that they'll just rattle off for everyone listening that, you know, some, in some cases you might go, what is that? Or you know, what's the best practice in each of these areas? So if you were to say, you know, the sequences that are important, right? Like what are the best, like you mentioned the four videos. What are the most important sequences? And like what do you recommend in terms of, you know, how long they last, you know, what the feel of them is? Because I think sometimes people get, they either like will over market or they're under market generally. They kind of under market in my experience. I'd probably rather have people be more aggressive with their follow up than not. But they'll say, how many times should I reach out to a lead before I kind of put it just into a long term nurture sequence? Or how many times should I follow up on that estimate and how do I do it? How do I do it politely but also not leave money on the table? I know it's a big question, but what are the big sequences and what are the best practices for each?

Yeah, I can break it down here for you. So first off is a lot of times people think it's just nagging, like, hey, Andrew, make a decision yet? Make a decision yet? Are you ready to go? You ready to go? That's not what you want to do. And I'll explain like the best process for that. But here's the first part is with leads. When you get a lead and you talk to the person on the phone or they don't answer, here's a recommendation. There's two different buckets that they fall into. One is I have no heat and I need heat in my house or my house is on fire and I need someone to come put it out. Those people, you don't want to put them in a 14 day nurture sequence because they need it done now. So we recommend three times per day for three days. So text emails hit them pretty good. The other bucket is like, hey, I want to get a new deck put on, or I want gutter cleaning or whatever. And it's more like, nice to have that one. We recommend 14 to 21 day lead follow up. And here's what you want to say is inside of that you'll say, hey, Andrew, you recently filled out a form. Were you able to get your gutters cleaned yet? You want to pain, you want to hit the pain point. Not like, are you still interested in doing this? You want to say, were you able get your gutters cleaned yet? Then you want to say, hey, not sure how much you saw on us, but here's some common questions that we have about this. Hey, not sure if you know how much things should cost? Here's a pricing guide that we created. This is how you kind of tie in your visibility and blog content into your sales process by leveraging the content that you're creating in your sales funnel. So inside that 14, 21 day sequence, you can mention things like those blog posts, you can introduce your technicians, you can talk about a customer case study testimonials that kind of stuff. Now the estimate side, what we recommend is 14 to 21 days. We had a company that we implemented a 21 day nurture sequence and it took their conversion rate from 46 to 58% which is pretty good. Usually like 40 to 60% is a good close rate. We implemented this 21 day nurture sequence and we did same similar things of educating them, but we had an expiration date and the expiration date was like hey Andrew, just so you're aware, our estimates are good for 30 days and then hey, we got 20 days left on this estimate. Have you made a decision yet or are you still up in the air about this? 10 days? Hey, it's about to expire in 10 days. Our schedule's actually filling up. Just want to make sure. And you kind of walk them through this process that will help get you to a yes or no faster. And those two things, I mean that's basically the cadence. 14, 21 days, 1421 days or three days and hit them hard.

So good. Thanks for, thanks for just sharing all that wisdom. And that's, that's like, you know, it's so valuable to folks. So Mike, what's coming up for you man?

I'm curious. One of the businesses that we work with is we have a few in the landscape lighting and we created a lookbook as a lead magnet to give inspiration for the client to look at this and see what might your house look like with some of these as ideas, 101 ideas on how to light up your home. And I know you mentioned a blog post or consumption of content. Where do you stand on lead magnets for home service clients? Is it just the pre estimate is all they care about or are there opt ins? Is that something that you're also noticing potentially as a, as an item for this space specifically? Could you just kind of riff on that a little bit?

Yeah, for sure. So there's two buckets that people fall into. The first one is lower ticket, things like maybe 10,000 and below. The other one's like $10,000 average ticket and above. So if it's under $10,000, usually the best thing to do in my opinion is to have a pop up with a promo. Imagine you go to an e commerce website, it says hey, get 10% off, give us your email and you get that. What we found with the pop up promos is that it usually converts 30, 50% more of your visitors into leads than would of before because you're hitting them right away with a pop up promo. The other one is an estimate calculator. The reason estimates are great is because when people go to your website they want to know two things. How much is it going to cost? When can you do it? The reason this is the case is because 87% of people are doing their research offline. Then when they go to your website, all they're looking for is pictures in a logo T shirt, maybe some reviews. An easy way to become a customer. They're spending about 30 seconds on your website so you want to make it as easy as possible for them to turn into a lead. So those are the two promos. Now if it's bigger ticket items, you could have some type of a buyer's guide or something like this. The problem with those is that most people are not going to be opting in for that. I wouldn't have that as my main call to action. I would have it as a sub call to action or when someone fills out a form, educating them. Or like on the homepage as people scroll, they could download this. But I would say it's not like the call to action to have a promo would be better in my opinion.

So can you, can you repeat what you just mentioned about? If they're, they're on the site for 30 seconds, what's the most important things to make sure they hit on?

Chat widget is number one. I didn't mention that chat widget is number one. Because people are not going to dig through your site trying to figure out do you do this service in this area, how much does it cost? They just want to turn into a lead. Pop up promo. Pop up promo is a gold mine because you can add some type of a promo discount $50 off whatever people are going to convert. Then you could say estimate calculator because people want to know how much does it cost? So some have estimate calculator. And then like a basic contact us and I'll give you some other bonus ones. If you go to your, if you go to your website on your phone and it takes you longer than 10 seconds to turn to a customer, that's a problem because you only get 30 seconds. So on your phone you want to have sticky headers. What that means is on your mobile you want to have headers right at the top that say call now request service. And as people scroll, they're stuck there. Most people don't have it and they go there and they have to click this little three lines. Go to this contact page and try to find out how to fill out this form and it's all wrong. So. Yeah, that's exactly how you would do it.

Yeah. For that chat. Oh, yeah, go ahead.

One more. How important is the about us, like being like a family run small. Like, is that something that you find is important, like the origin story of the company, or is that like something that's not as significant from your seat?

Yeah, it definitely is. We're more of a lead gen agency, which means we're just trying to get leads that are good quality leads through the door. So that's why I usually emphasize those more. Cause a lot of people come to us, they want more leads. Those other things. Like for example, the number one thing you can do is take out your iPhone and take a picture of your stuff. No one wants to see stock photos. That's one of the things that people are going to the website and auditing. Do you have stock photos or real photos? So if you can have real photos with logoed stuff, 100%, it's way better. And it takes two seconds to take a picture. Put it on portrait mode and take a picture. Then in the about section, what I. I've seen so many websites. Like, I, my nickname's Rhino and I started a business 30 years ago in my mom's garage. Like, don't say that. What you want to do is use the framework from Donald Miller, the story brand, which is you're not the hero, the customer is the hero. And you want to tell the story from that perspective. Hey, you're probably here because you're facing this issue. I was facing this issue too. And you kind of walk them through. If you never read this, read that and you can implement that on your about section. I think it's really good. Also if you have some pictures of family stuff, if it's a family type business, people love that stuff. So the more you can talk about the origin story and then what you do, you take that origin story and then put it into your sales process. This is how you can kind of leverage things throughout.

That's really smart. Yeah. And I think, I think, you know, it adds to the credibility. Right? Like really what you're, you know, really trying to vet, you know. And I think about the recent experience I just shared around looking for builders is, you know, how, you know, does the site look clean? Does it make sense? Does it look organized? Is there good photos on the site? Are there some reviews? And just like, how much trust can I put into this person? But I also think what you're saying around, in fact, a lot of businesses actually do that part pretty well. What I think they don't do so well is what you were talking about around the lead capture. They have these big forms to fill out that takes a bunch of time. They're asking for too much information up front, all these things. So I really like what you said about the chat widget. I want to ask about that. There was a question in chat from Molly. She said, hey, on a bigger job, what would be a good promo, right? Because it might not be 10% off. Like, let's say it's a $10,000 product or $20,000 in her case. It's a lighting install for outdoor lighting. What might be a good.