ACE Your Life: Unleash Your Best Self and Live the Life You Want (Author Interview with Michelle ...

Welcome to Readers, the podcast for the lifelong learner. Join us on our weekly dose of wisdom where we talk about the real-life lessons and applications of books. Enjoy! Welcome back to Readers, everyone. Today we are joined by a very, very special guest with one of the most extensive resumes I've ever seen. Welcome to the podcast, Michelle. Introduce yourself.

Sure, thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it. So I have a private practice in Harrison, New York, and I'm also a co-founder and clinical director of Through My Eyes, which is a nonprofit, and it offers free clinically guided videotaping for chronically medically ill individuals who want to leave a video legacy for their children and loved ones. I'm adjunct faculty at New York University, and I teach a graduate course in mindfulness, practice, um, a member of the American Red Cross team, and I serve on the board of directors of the Westchester Trauma Network. Um, I won't get into all the types of treatments that I do because we'll be here all day, but, um, I am an author of two books, and my most recent one is Ace Your Life: Unleash Your Best Self and Live the Life You Want, and it's available. And I just actually, um, produced the audiobook, which just came out, and I narrated it, so I'm very excited about that. I also am a blogger for Psychology Today And I also have a YouTube channel, which I offer free guided meditations every Thursday morning. That's right. So a little bit about me. Yes. And last thing is I did do a TED Talk on circumventing emotional avoidance. So I definitely invite all of you to watch that.

For sure. That's actually how I kind of found out a little bit more about, you know, some of the concepts that you discuss in your book. I thought that was amazing.

So thank you.

Welcome to the podcast. We're so glad to have you today. Um, today's episode, just for all of our viewers, is going to be a little bit different from our past releases for multiple reasons. Uh, for one, we're not going to be doing 3 episodes on this book like we have before, but rather we will just have this one author interview. This is something you might see a lot more going forward. And also, instead of doing a book summary, this will be much more interview-like and will center around the author's thoughts about the book. So let's dive in to part 1, thinking and connecting, uh, to our inner values, right? So my first question for you, Michelle, comes on the very first page of this book when you talk about how our mind tends to often play tricks on us, right? You mention that our mind often tends to convince us of things that may not be true or rational, and you say that we don't have control over our thoughts and feelings only in the way in which we choose to behave. Now, reading this, I was instantly curious, right? What does this mean? Don't our thoughts control the way that we behave? And if we can't control our thoughts, how do we control our behavior?

Great question. And it is a big fallacy. So I do want to say that most people think— and if you look on social media, again, you're led to believe that you can control your thoughts and feelings. So, you know, again, there's like 10 ways to be happy and 50 ways to be happy and all these prescribed ways of gaining contentment and happiness. And it actually leads us into a spiral of unhappiness, of discord, of disappointment, of frustration. And we end up having thoughts about our thoughts and feelings about our feelings and thoughts about our feelings and feelings about our thoughts. And it is a vicious cycle which ends up actually depleting us and leads to negative consequences like low self-confidence, low self-belief, underproducing. And I could go on and on, you know, the negativity, because we do. We have an inner critic. So our brain is wired constantly and consistently to avoid danger and discomfort. So it's constantly asking the question, is this safe? Is this person safe? Etc. So it really, in some ways, breeds us to have— like, a lot of us are very anxious because we're always concerned. And we always have this protective defensive mechanism by which we disconnect. So yes, we cannot— so for example, if I say to you, whatever you do before we get off this call, I want you to forget the number 1. I want you to get the number 1 out of your mind. I want you to stop thinking about it. Okay? How long do you think it's going to take for you to get the number 1 out of your mind?

So it's pretty hard to get it out of my mind.

Pink elephant, right? It's like the pink elephant. So what happens when I say forget the number 1? Your mind remembers it in order to forget it, which then remembers it.

Okay?

And that is exactly what our mind does. If we— if somebody's perseverating or distressed and we say, you know, oh, just stop thinking about that, or, or if we say to ourselves, I just want to get this out of my mind. It's so frustrating. Guess what happens? Our mind is like, no, you're going to remember this because this is what's keeping you safe and protected, and this is what's helping you to avoid discomfort. I'm going to incessantly, right, I'm going to up the ante, and I'm actually going to throw this at you and make you more anxious about it. And guess what happens when we resist? It persists and it actually intensifies. So, and then we have feelings about our thoughts. That's what inevitably happens. And then we behave based on the stream of consciousness and our thoughts and feelings. So we can't— I have a sign on my door. It says, don't believe everything you think, because our thoughts are a conglomerate of so many different things. How we're socialized, how we were raised by our parents, our race, religion. I could go on and on and on. That really constructs our thoughts. So we really can't rely on that. We really have to rely on our values, on what's important to us, on what we want to be about. That is the core of who we want to be.

Yeah. So a couple of points there that you touched on that I wanted to ask a couple of questions about. One thing you talked about was discomfort, right? But you actually say that there's value in experiencing discomfort, right? Because everybody's going to experience it at some point. You mentioned that one way that you can find value in experiencing discomfort is by learning to be present through mindfulness. Um, and you know, which brought up the question, what is mindfulness? You know, there's so many, there's so many ways of perceiving that, but you said in a nutshell, mindfulness is simply fully paying attention to what you are doing without judgment, right? So can you talk to me a little bit about the impact mindfulness has had on you, your clients, your work as a whole, particularly in that element of creating space that you talk about? And what are mindfulness activities?

Yeah, I love that question too. And people really get confused about that. There's a lot of misinformation about mindfulness. People think about it being like spiritual and hokey pokey, so they avoid it sometimes. Mindfulness in a nutshell, yes, is exactly— you defined it beautifully. So we're going to go with that. We really want to create a pause and space between our thinking and doing. That is exactly what it is in a nutshell, but non-judgmentally and intentionally. So you're purposefully paying attention non-judgmentally. Now, why do I say not judgmentally? That also is spoken about a lot by Jon Kabat-Zinn, who's kind of the father of mindfulness, who brought mindfulness to the West. Because what ends up happening— and I'll just make a differentiation between our thinking mind and our observing mind. You know, when we think about something, we usually add adjectives to it. We don't just think about it organically and say, you know, so like, for example, if I'm laying on the beach and I'm looking up at the sun, I'll say to myself, oh, the sun is out. It's so hot. I feel so sweaty. My feet are uncomfortable in this like sticky sand, right? Instead of just saying, I'm on the beach.

Yeah.

The sun is out.

Yeah.

My feet are in the sand.

Sure. Sure.

Right? That is just observing. And then you could take note of how does this feel in my body? And how am I feeling in general about my situation? Right? We go into the spiral of negativity if you think about it, because we have all these adjectives based on our experiences, based on our comfort in our bodies. There is value in being in the discomfort. Why? Because innately we try to avoid it. And like you said, being a human is about having a full array of feelings. And people don't realize this. When we cut off negative feelings, we're not— we can't compartmentalize our thoughts and feelings. We end up cutting off the positive ones as well. Yeah. And that's the problem. So we really have to take that pause. And it's interesting, like sometimes I'll ask people, you know, let's say with overeating, you know, because my first book is on overeating, people will say to me, I didn't even think, you know, it went from my hand to my mouth in like 2 seconds flat and there was no thought in between. And I said, okay, let's slow down, right? I'll say, well, I'm going to actually debate you on that. Let's slow down. Did you have any thought in between? And they'll say, well, I thought to myself, okay, I'll have less tomorrow, or I'll work out more tomorrow, or, oh, it's not so bad, I didn't eat so much today, or whatever rationalization that comes through their mind. But guess what happens? They ignore it. They avoid the discomfort, and then they overeat. And then, of course, it's followed with guilt, shame, and negative feelings. So we're not— we can't decide what thoughts and feelings we want. It's not a smorgasbord. They will come to us whether we like it or not. And if we're beating ourselves up and berating ourselves for having certain thoughts and feelings, then we're not really accepting our humanism. Because being human means having a full array of thoughts and feelings. And it's not the thoughts and feelings themselves that are the issue and problem. It's, again, how we, again, construct that, the narratives we have, you know, how we behave based on them. That typically is the issue more so.

Sure. And that brings us to, uh, part 2, which is acceptance, right? The first step in your ACE method. So you start this chapter off with— and this ties a little bit into what you were just talking about, how we naturally try to avoid painful memories, right? Avoid painful incidents and things like that. But The pain, right, often signifies the love that you can connect to and cherish, right? It's an anchor to— even if something tragic happened in your life, the pain that you feel signifies that what love or what attachment you had to that. Um, you mentioned that acceptance is being with what is without struggling to deny, dismiss, or disregard parts of it, and One thing you say, one way you say to, um, exercise acceptance is by loosening your expectations. So if you, if you accept or weaken your attachments and engage in acceptance, objectively avoiding judging events or situations, you can often eliminate or mitigate suffering, is what you said. So I want to ask you, um, how does one really do this, and where do you find the balance between loosening expectations and lowering your standards?

I love that question. And that is the biggest issue with why people have a hard time accepting.

Yeah.

You just kind of said it in a nutshell. We're talking about embracing who we are truly without any expectations or conditions or qualifications. So fundamentally, what we're thinking about is that we are whole and good enough just as we are.

Sure.

And when I ask people, do you have that value based on your relationships with others? Do you believe that people are worthy? Do you believe that people are good enough? And they go, of course. And I'm like, but you don't feel that way about yourself. You're a human too. And they're like, oh, yeah, that's true. Why are you— right? But the fear is that people will live a life of mediocrity. If I accept who I am, I won't change. I won't grow. And I will accept mediocrity. That is not— that is actually not true at all. It's the opposite.

Oh, wow. Okay.

When we berate ourselves, when we have low confidence, when we have low self-belief and low self-compassion, that is when we don't act in accordance to our values. And I always tell people, the biggest gift you could give yourself is treating yourself well, right? And treating yourself with the foundational kind of awareness that you are worthy. So discipline, for example, right? When you discipline yourself, you are giving yourself a gift and you are contributing to your confidence. So everything that we do that helps to build our confidence is little gifts that we're giving ourselves.

Sure, sure. Okay. And you mentioned a little bit later in this, in this chapter, the concept of radical acceptance, which I think is really cool because it's more than just telling telling somebody to feel some way, but you, you act, you implement very concrete ways to implement acceptance in your life. So just for the viewers, I really want to ask you if you can, you know, in a nutshell, talk a little bit about what radical acceptance is and, and what role that plays.

Yeah, thank you. So radical acceptance is, you know, kind of a term that's, that has been coined by Marsha Linehan in dialectical behavioral therapy. And really what it is, it's accepting the reality of what is, accepting the situation may cause pain because situations do cause pain. A life is full of human suffering. That's like a Buddhist precept. And we have to accept life can be worth living with the pain. It's not a caveat. If we have pain, we have to just give up because often we have to just muddle through even though it is painful. We don't have a choice. And unfortunately, we can't control a lot of aspects of our life. You know, just yesterday, which is awful, you know, I had in my neighborhood a 40-year-old woman who died of a massive heart attack and left two small children, high schoolers. I mean, that is the most tragic, horrible thing ever.

Yeah.

You know, and you can't plan for those things. Like, things happen out of our control, which is just so horrible. And we have to decide, even in the midst of adversity and challenge and trauma, that we're going to live our best life, you know. And there's things— again, when we say accepting, we mean accepting the feelings that come along with it. We mean, you know, accepting the decision-making that goes along with it, you know, accepting the situation the way it is, not wishing or willing it to be different. Because that's where the suffering comes in. Yeah. So I do give, you know, when I talk about radical acceptance, it's accepting everything no matter what. There's no contingencies. Again, sure.

Um, can you give me an example of maybe some clients you worked with, um, may— who maybe struggled with acceptance and some of the work that you did with them to kind of bring them out of that endless cycle of berating themselves.

Yeah. So just yesterday I was working with a medical student. She's in medical school. And, you know, to be in medical school, you have to be— and she applied. She was telling me she applied to 32 medical schools.

Wow.

Yeah. Which you could imagine, it is so competitive. And she only got into one, you know. And she was telling me, like, how And again, this is a kid who, if you could imagine, she was like the superstar in her high school. Like, she was a number one, got the best grades, you know, like, and even when she shares this with me, I'm in shock because I would think she'd get into like almost every school she would apply to just because of who she is and how she is and all the time and effort and energy she puts into the work that she does. But what was happening is, you know, we're talking about a different caliber now, a different level. Right, of academ— you know, academics and, um, you know, position. So where she was the super superstar in her high school, now she's one of many people who are superstars. It's a very different, like, situation, and she's feeling extremely insecure. Okay. Not only in regards to, uh, not so much actually in competition with her peers, you know, It's more about her fear of not succeeding, of not passing her exams, of her not, you know, just whatever. And she never had that before. And she was explaining to me that it always came external because she had grandparents that were really extremely supportive. She doesn't have them anymore, unfortunately. They died. And they were, she said, they were my number one cheerleaders. And then she realized, like, when we were talking, she realized that the validation always came externally to her, her parents, her grandparents, but that she never learned how to self-validate and how to have self-compassion. And that became such an issue that now it's such a struggle for her that even when she witnesses her successes, she's not able to really connect to it at the gut level. Yeah. And we talked about that, and I literally have give her skills and tools because she really has no idea of how to really make that connection.

Yeah, wow. I think that's so cool. That's, that's probably a perfect segue into this next part about compassion, right? Because I mean, maybe she does, maybe she doesn't, but the problem that you kind of brought up was a little bit also compassion, right? You don't, you don't see the small successes or big successes in your own life, and you you can't celebrate those. And that, that tends to demoralize yourself when you're at a place like college or like med school where, yeah, there's plenty of other people out there who are doing amazing and you have to be compassionate to yourself to keep pushing forward. Um, and I just want, I just wanna say one last thing about the acceptance part, um, which you mentioned in the book yourself. You said at the end of the day, acceptance is not about trying to stop emotions. But letting them ebb and flow, understanding that feeling an emotion, good or bad, is part of the human experience, and that we should look at them from an objective standpoint without judging ourselves or trying our emotions to how we perceive ourselves. I thought that was just super cool, so I just wanted to say that. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, so, so let's move on to this next part in the ACE method, compassion. And, you know, I can sit here and read your definition of compassion word for word, But I want you to tell me what that is in your own words, just in a nutshell.

Yeah. So we're really, really astute at how to give compassion to others because we learn that from when we're young. Most people, right? Yes. Even with your parents, when you're in school, everybody's like, be nice to your neighbor, say you're sorry, be loving, be kind. But no one ever teaches us to be self-compassionate, ever. Literally, if you think about it, and I did a little bit of a search too. It's amazing if you look at songs, which I mentioned this in my book too. If you look at songs, most songs are about relationships with others.

Yeah.

Like, there are very few songs that are about kind of self-empowerment and self-compassion and loving oneself. Very few. Yeah. It's, it's fascinating. So we don't ever in, you know, when we raise our kids, and by the way, you know, I, I know even for myself as a parent, I have to think twice, and I have to actually intentionally think about this because it doesn't innately come to me because I never learned it before. Yeah, but we don't say to our kids, how do you feel about your success? Or how do you feel about your accomplishment? What is that like for you? Which helps them connect to it on the gut level. We say, oh, what did they think about it? Or how did they react to you? Or what was that like? We're constantly giving validation external to ourselves.

Sure.

So it really entails— and I talk a lot about different ways that we could kind of cultivate it. But we want to work with our inner critic, and we want to make our inner critic into our inner nurturer.

Sure.

Our inner coach, which is shifting kind of our mindset. We want to engage our friend voice, like how we would talk to a friend. We know how to be compassionate to friends and validate, but we don't know how to do that. Do we take the time to actually do that? Redirecting. So sometimes we're so busy at beating ourselves up and focusing on what's wrong with us rather than what's right with us, right, that sometimes we have to literally redirect kind of our thinking and say, OK, well, let me take a second here, right? So even in situations where— and I find myself doing this too— I could— so for example, I gave a workshop last night to like 100 people.

Oh, wow.

Yeah. And there was— I mean, I think it went pretty well. I was very proud of myself. But there was one or two little glitches, like I was trying to play a song and again, I couldn't get it to work. And there was a couple of things. But when I got off, guess what? Guess what came to my mind? Not, not like all the positive feedback I got, not the intervention I did with the person, like, who kind of, you know, expressed herself in the audience. My mind was stuck on what went wrong.

Sure.

Right.

Yeah. Why?

Why? Because it's so important to me that I help people, that I engage people. And I was proud of that. I was proud to recognize that that's where my kind of upset and suffering came from. And I actually sat in self-compassion. I said, gosh, when things go wrong that don't— that get in the way of me thinking that people are not going to get my message, it really makes me sad and disappointed. Gosh, it's so hard for me when that happens.

Yeah.

And I'm so proud of myself for being so caring.

Okay.

Right. We don't take the time to do that and observe and acknowledge ourselves and really provide that comfort. And comfort could come in all different ways. I give little tips and tools. It could come in a way of actually using imagery. It could come in a way of using ourselves. So even if you I always say you could self-compassionately touch. You could put your hands on your heart in a very self-compassionate way. You could put your hand on your face. You could massage your arms. You could say words that are compassionate, which is always helpful too, verbally. So there's all different ways. And by the way, when I talk to people about this and I have them do it, I can't even tell you the level of discomfort that people have in being compassionate to themselves. It's like literally foreign. They're like, this feels weird.

I mean, I can imagine. I can imagine for sure.

Yeah. Yeah.

So one of my favorite parts of this was, I mean, you mentioned, you know, the, the intervention that you did yesterday and all these different things, but one of my favorite parts was when you mentioned and clarified that self-compassion doesn't mean accepting your own mediocrity or negativity in any way, but instead means supporting and empathizing experiences from them to learn and grow, right? So you look at what happened, you look at it from a growth mindset rather than a fix. You look at it from the perspective of, this is something I did well, um, and this is something I can work on, not something that's, you know, fundamentally wrong with me or something like that. And, and moving on from that a little bit, I want to mention just this line that you said, self-compassion is the change agent leading our transformation. Can you expand a little bit on that, what that means? Because that's a very— that's a big line, right?

Yeah, it really is. I, I think out of my whole entire book, I really mean it. I think this is the most critical skills that you could learn. Okay. And yeah, I really do. I mean, I think all of it is important, of course, but I, I, I think that we really don't treat ourselves well, fundamentally. And I think it gets in our way because we know this. So, for example, in the past, we used to think we could get people to make change and movement by tough love.

Okay.

And what did we learn? We learned that actually that puts people in a position where they feel deflated and they don't make change and movement.

Okay.

That if you actually foster their confidence and their self-belief, that will create change. Because why should a person make change or even facilitate change if they don't believe they can? It doesn't even make sense.

Mm-hmm.

So we always, again, you know, we always want, you know, the compassion. You have to have compassion for yourself as a human. In order to facilitate what I'm talking about.

Yeah, wait, sorry, sorry to interrupt. I just had a quick question about that tough love part that you mentioned. I, I don't know if maybe I'm misinterpreting, but like, from what I know, I didn't think that tough love meant like, say, making somebody, your child or whoever, believe that they couldn't do it, right? I would assume tough love was more like, you know, you don't want to do this, but these are things you need to do because you are you don't understand why yet?

Not really. I think tough love, like, for example, it's known, like, for example, uh, with, you know, substance abuse and, and in certain kind of, you know, I, I think issues, like kind of berating somebody and putting them down and making them feel, right, like, like saying, um, yeah, yeah, it's It's a very, very, like, in-your-face, direct, aggressive approach, you know, even with a kid, even with a kid comparing a kid against their sibling.

Yeah.

So-and-so does it. You should be able to do it too. Or, or I wouldn't be so angry at you, but I know you have the capacity to do it. You're just lazy. Yeah, right. It's, it's all those things that we think. Or you have such a beautiful face. If you lost 50 pounds, you'd be gorgeous and the guys would be falling at your feet. I mean, just like all these things that we say that we think we're helping somebody because, you know, but underneath that is like, how is somebody supposed to feel if you're expressing that to them? Sure, right? Yeah, that doesn't help. Um, so if you're loving and you're caring and you're compassionate, that goes a long way. But it's really teaching somebody to do that for themselves because in the end you could want somebody to change. They're not going to change until it's a personal matter on their own and it's their own volition. Yeah. You could want your child to be different, but unless they want it on their own— and by the way, I have so many clients, which I love. I have a bunch of clients that I've seen, patients that I've seen when they're kids, like either middle school, high school. And they're coming because their parents make them come or whatever the case is, or they're kind of here, but they're not really invested. They don't think that anything's wrong, you know, whatever the case is. And do you know that they circle back to me?

Really?

On their own, independently sometimes. And they're like, by the way, I know when I came to you, I really gave you a hard time. And I was— oh my gosh, I don't even know how I was so tight-lipped. I like made you like, you know, grit your teeth. But I'm really ready to work now. I really decided that I want this for myself. And could I tell you Wow. Those people who circle back to me when they come out of their own independence and free will and they really want to work, I can't even tell you the change and the transformation I've seen from these individuals. I mean, miraculous.

Wow. That's amazing.

Yeah.

On that note, I would love to move to part 3 of your ACE method, which is empowerment. Now, I think you introduced this in some very— I think it's a very interesting way that you introduce empowerment You, you, first of all, you define the difference between empowerment and self-empowerment. You said empowerment is actually just asserting intentional effort towards one's goals, observing and reflecting on the impact of those actions, right? And then you also mentioned that it's an individual drawing on their self-efficacy, knowledge, and competence related to their goals. Now you mentioned that self-empowerment, right, is using this acquisition of the skills, the knowledge that you might have gained, but using that to cope with problems, to cope with stress. And it's also an individual's ability to have emotional knowledge and harness their personal qualities and apply it to effective decision-making in order to take ownership over one's life. So the way I kind of see it a little bit is you do a little bit more of clinical work through empowerment of doing acquisition of knowledge, of skills, having emotional knowledge in the first place, these different things. And then, you know, harnessing that, I guess, would be self-empowerment. How would you, how would you kind of describe that?

Well, I think empowerment in a nutshell, just to dull it down a little bit, is if we really have a sense of self-efficacy, in other words, that if we put effort and time and energy into things, that, that will actually positive results and benefits, obviously, then we take action.

Sure.

So it's really in the doing. So, for example, when I do workshops, I constantly will ask people, for example, let's say I'm talking about health and wellness. I'll ask people, how many of you, you know, have worked towards your kind of health and wellness goals? You know, let's say losing weight or, you know, exercising. And every— all the hands go up. Because there's tons of resources that we have now on the internet and otherwise on how to follow through. So many people, for example, have lost much weight. And then I ask them, how many of you have sustained it over time? And then the hands go down. Yes. So that is the problem I find, especially with habits, behavioral change, stuckness, is it's not so much in the change itself, it's in the sustaining the change over time and the continual practice of doing.

Sure.

But that's really what empowerment is. Like, how can we again recognize that we're in control of our own decisions, that there will be benefit if we put energy, time, and effort into it, and ultimately we're in charge of our own lives, and that we need to take direct action continually in order to work towards those values and goals?

Sure. And I think That sounds really cool, and I know there's a bunch of different resources out there on how to do that, you know, habit formation. James Clear talks about it. There's lots of different, lots of different methods. I want to ask you, um, you know, what, what is the thing that you find most often gets in the way of acquiring that self-empowerment? You know, you mentioned a couple things like limiting beliefs and perception. You mentioned something called cognitive fusion. Uh, compensatory strategies, all these other things. What do you feel really gets in the way of, of getting that self-empowerment?

Yeah, well, you know, which, with each section I have a chapter on the barriers, which is all the things you're talking about right now. So I can't even answer that because for each person it's different. It really is.

Okay.

You know, I'll give you an example. Today I was working with somebody and she You know, some— again, she might use substances a little bit too much, too often, and it really gets in her way because, again, it's more so how she feels— well, how it affects her both physiologically, emotionally, um, and otherwise, and then also how she feels about herself.

Okay.

Emotionally, when she does do that, you know, she berates herself, she feels a lot of shame, um, and I could go on and on. And we talked about, like, how do we get you back on a path? Because then again, she has increased urges, which is a physiological kind of symptom, right? Then she has this self-fulfilling prophecy. Oh, this is too hard. You know, I can't do this. What's the point? And she has all these rationalizations that get in the way. So we talked about, you know, in terms of my model, we talked about something called the 3 Rs. You know, so I have all different ways in, you know, in the section when I talk about how to work through the stuckness, how do you actually get through it once you've gone down that path? And I differentiate between something called a slip and something called a fall. Because we all slip. We all slip. It's a slippery slope. We're imperfect and we're human. So by very nature, because we're imperfect and we're human, we're going to slip. That's just the way it is. But there is a difference between slipping for 2 weeks and falling for 2 months.

Sure.

In terms of any habit that we're trying to really integrate.

Yeah.

So, you know, the 3 Rs, for example, is reset, reinvest, reconnect, and reinvest. And then I talk about, like, with resetting, what you need to do, right? It's really coming back to yourself in the present moment, which is very hard to do, especially when we spiraled. You know, reconnecting is that noticing every nuance of yourself with without judgment or expectation. Again, very hard to do when you've done something that you're not feeling proud of and you're feeling shameful of. And reinvesting— what do you intentionally need to do that's in line with connecting to your values? And like, a question that I encouraged her to ask herself is, is this behavior leaning towards my confidence or away from it?

Okay.

Is it leaning towards my values or away from it? And that will give you guidance in terms of what direction you want to take.

Okay.

Right. So, and understanding that the way in which she behaved this time actually was very different than the past. What do I mean by that? In the past, she used to kind of party it up very impulsively without any mindfulness. She used to kind of engage in this behavior. Mm-hmm. Now, when she went out with her friend, she very intentionally, very mindfully made the decision to use, and she was also mindful at how much she used also.

Okay.

That's very different. And she didn't even realize that. She didn't even realize it when we were talking about it.

Sure.

She's like, oh, I didn't even realize that. I actually— this was different. I said, yeah, it was very different.

Mm-hmm.

And now she's talking about, okay, that was one weekend out of weeks and weeks and weeks that I actually, you know, decided that I was gonna, you know, abstain from it. And then what do I do now going forward that's gonna lead me on a path where I'm gonna continue, right, working on my goals and values? So that's what we talked about. Like, what does she actually need to do? What does she need to do in order to empower herself?

Okay.

So that she's actually working towards that. So I came up with a list of people who live empowered lives and what characteristics they need to have.

Yes. That was actually going to be my next question. Some of the characteristics of those people.

You could ask it.

Yeah. No, that was the question. It was just some of these characteristics of people who really embody that self-empowerment that you were talking about.

Yeah. So people love this list because if, you know, you could really ask yourself, do I actually embody these characteristics? And, you know, that helps that if you're kind of feeling a little bit out, you know, kind of disaligned or out of line, you could kind of recalibrate and reassess where you're at and you get back on that path. So, excuse me, um, so one thing that they do is they accept and face adversity no matter how challenging the situation. So we're led to believe that, you know, when we go through any kind of situation, it should be easy and it should be quick. You know, we have patience, and we also, you know, because we live in a society where everything is kind of quick pace, instant gratification, and all of that, we lose sight that we really have to put time and effort and energy, and that comes with hard work. So I always tell people, what, what do you really want to accomplish that you could get accomplished by putting no effort into? Like, I don't know anything like that, do you? And they're like, no. Like, I don't care what it is, whether it's losing weight or whether it's being a better parent, or whether it's, you know, again, expanding your kind of, you know, socialization, your, your social repertoire, whether it's, I mean, learning, I mean, anything, I mean, anything requires— and even an athlete, even an athlete who's a professional, they don't say to themselves, got this, don't need to practice, I'm good. No, they have to continue. They, I mean, they put in so much time into practicing, 5 hours a day, you know, when they're like in on-season, right? Like, Yeah, we just, we have to accept that, um, they have a mission and purpose that lead their values. You know, they find meaning and opportunities for growth. So, you know, somebody may say to themselves, um, you know, oh, I went through this, and then they have kind of this, maybe they feel victimized or they feel, you know, um, very negative about it. But if you look at the lessons that you could learn from your experiences despite them being challenging. That is going to give you an opportunity for growth in challenging times. Right? And again, I could go on and on, but I made up a whole list, which you could really ask yourselves, like, am I in the space? Another really important— are you able to improvise? Now, we may have a plan on how we want things to be or how we think or expect things should be. But are we adaptable? Do we bend? Do we shift? You know, when things don't quite work out, you know, do we have effective coping skills? Do we have emotional regulation? Do we seek social supports? And again, I could go on and on and on, but there's a lot of characteristics.

Yeah, sure. So I wanted to actually ask you, I think this is kind of interesting, some of the things you said, but, you know, you mentioned a little bit earlier in the episode that we all tend to be very forgiving, very easy and, and understanding, especially when something like this is happening to somebody else, right? It's much easier to look at somebody and say, you know, they're really trying, they're doing better, I see them, you know, making, making an effort. Unless, I don't know, you're just somebody who likes to see the bad in people. But, um, rather than yourself, you know. So actually, I didn't have this question scripted, but it kind of came over my mind as you were you were talking about, you mentioned, you know, being a mother or, or, you know, staying fit, all these different things. I want to ask you, what was your kind of journey as we close this, this episode out a little bit with not just self-empowerment but all of them, right? Because what I found, at least in, in talking to different authors and people who write, is a lot of times their work reflects on their life, their struggles, their successes. Their story, basically. So, and I don't think that would be any different for you, right? So I want to ask you, tell me a little bit about your own story and journey with, with your own method and how you came to this.

Sure. Sure. So, you know, I was fortunate in a lot of ways because although I had an extremely, I would say, chaotic and challenging background and childhood, you know, my parents divorced when I was 3. I lived with a single mom. There was a lot of a lot of stuff going on. I went to 5 different elementary schools. I mean, I could go on and on, but it was very challenging, extremely challenging.

Sure.

And I was lucky because just my personality, I think I was quite an independent kid just because that's just the way I was born. And I remember, I actually remember this, which makes me sad when I think about it, but like, I remember being a little, little child and like laying in my bed and hugging my teddy bear and literally saying to myself, this too shall pass, which is like amazing to me that I actually had the wherewithal to say that, you know. And when I was in college, I took my student loans and I put myself in therapy, which again, I think is astonishing. I literally took my student loans and I put myself in therapy. I don't even know, like, why you do that. You know what it was? I really did not want to repeat the mistakes of my family, my parents, and I wanted a different life. I just did. And I was insistent that it was going to be that way no matter what. How I knew? Well, maybe the reason I knew to go to therapy is because I think my— I remember when I was a teenager, my mom— sorry. I remember when I was a teenager, my mom attempted to go to therapy with me, and I absolutely refused. I mean, I remember standing or sitting, I should say, like, on the steps of the building. Refused to go in the building. Like, I refused.

Oh, wow. Okay.

So I guess I knew about therapy. I knew about therapy, but I never thought it would be useful or valuable for me. And then again, like I said, there was a point where I said, you know what? I'm noticing things that I'm not quite happy about, things that are showing up. I'm not being my best self. I don't— I remember at that time I was feeling kind of confused and just you know, not in a good space. And I, like I said, I put myself through therapy again. I'm still growing because my path has changed so much. You know, my, my family life has changed so much. Yeah. My friendships have changed so much. I'm in a really— it's a journey. And I could tell you that, interestingly enough, as I was writing this book, I came to a lot of very hard conclusions about my my partnership and my marital relationship, which really, I think, came to a head as I was writing this book. Yeah. Which was amazing to me, too. And I'm continuing. Like, I'm really working a lot now on my triggers because I feel like that is a piece that really needs to be worked on for everybody. And hopefully that's going to be my next book. But A little sneak peek there. Yes, yes, a little sneak peek. Um, but, but it's, it's a constant, constant journey, I have to tell you. Constant.

Yeah, that's, that's amazing. Honestly, I think that's one of my favorite parts about, um, just reading in general is you get a little bit of insight into somebody else's life and, and some of the things that made somebody who they are, um, help their growth. Especially drastically. You mentioned a lot of, you know, a little bit of a, you know, an interesting childhood in terms of maybe everything wasn't perfect, you know. But there's this, there's this interesting story I heard this time, and, um, I forget which book it is, uh, of course. But there's, you know, there were these two kids. One was, you know, somebody who went down a very, very wrong path. The other was a very successful businessman. And somebody asked them both you know, how did you turn out this way? Um, oh, and their father, their father was also somebody who had a lot of issues and problems, and they both said the same thing. How could I have turned out the way I— any other way with the father that I had? You know, just the outlook that you have, what you do with what you get.

Um, actually, according to research, just so you know, the difference between those who actually thrive and those who don't is that they have one person in their lives, and it doesn't matter who it is. It could be a parent, it could be a caretaker, it could be a coach, it could be whatever, who believed in them.

Okay.

There's research on that, which I think is fascinating, right? Like, it really speaks for connection and also, like, building kind of the core in terms of self-belief. So that's a big, huge component, actually.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense, you know, because I think obviously, you know, a coach is there and at the end of the day they empower you to make your own powerful decisions, right? Um, yeah, I think, you know, on that note, I want to, you know, come bring this episode to a close here. And I just want to tell you, like, I was a really, really big fan of how you ended this book. I think, um, like you said, mentioning that there's things in life that you can and you cannot control, right? That's just a reality. We have daily opportunities. You mentioned that we have opportunities to show up or we have opportunities to sink into those past patterns because those are mistakes we've all made, right? You mentioned that acceptance, compassion, empowerment, all three start with embracing both your flaws and your strengths. And you mentioned that it's about taking those, leveraging them, and living intentionally and really responding rather than reacting. I think, I think Zig Ziglar said it, uh, pretty, pretty well, maybe a little crudely, a little bit, but honestly, he said, you know, your life is a result of the choices you've made. If you don't like your life, start making better choices. Um, and I think I really like the way you ended that because I think it embraces a very holistic approach to, you know, both your struggles, your flaws, as well as the successes that you might go through, and, and taking a moment to maybe take yourself out of that situation at times, looking at it from another perspective and, you know, answering in a more appropriate manner, or if not, reflecting on it. I want to ask you, any final thoughts?

No, I, I mean, I, I always have to say this because I, I, as you could imagine, being in my practice, I see people going through so much adversity, and I see people like, like, we don't get to choose our lives. I mean, to an extent we do, but a lot of it is uncertain. And every single moment is so important.

Yeah.

Because we never know what's going to happen in a minute from now or in an hour from now. And I see this happen before my very eyes. Sure. And I don't even care if I die. And I mean this, I don't care if I die tomorrow. Sure. I want to die knowing that I lived my best life. Sure. Yeah. And because I don't know when that's going to happen, right? But I want to know. I want to have satisfaction that I'm putting intention and effort and energy in every moment of my life. Yeah.

Yeah. I think that's the end goal. You summed it up pretty well. That's amazing. Well, thank you so much. I really enjoyed this episode, our time together. Thank you so much for being here. You're welcome.

You're welcome. Nice to meet you.

It was, it was an absolute pleasure. Um, again, to all of our viewers, thank you guys so much for listening. I highly recommend checking the book out, Ace Your Life, available on Amazon. Um, once again, everybody, thank you for listening. Thank you, Michelle, for, for joining us today. And until next time, keep learning, keep growing, and keep changing. We'll see you next time.