Every Mile Matters (Part 2)

Welcome to Readers, the podcast for the lifelong learner. Join us on our weekly dose of wisdom where we talk about the real-life lessons and applications of books. Enjoy! Welcome back to Readers, everyone. Today we're back with part 2 of Every Mile Matters with Dr. Jeffrey Reynolds. Dr. Reynolds, welcome back to the podcast.

Thanks. I'm great. Very happy to be back and looking forward to the, uh, the next part of our conversation.

Yes, sir. We're looking forward to, we're looking forward to this part 2 here. And, and, you know, today we really pick up about where resilience kind of meets rebirth, right? So in these chapters, you talk a lot about how healing isn't just about getting back to life, it's about almost creating a new version of it. And, you know, through these few sections that we're going to go through today, we talk about how this process of cancer and these you know, these struggles that you faced rewired you not just physically, but also emotionally, spiritually, and socially, and how you have learned to, in your words, train in the dark to shine in the light. So without further ado, let's get started.

Sure.

So in this first chapter of part 2, right, chapter 7, you start, you know, by talking about— you almost reframe miracles as earned moments, right? And you talk about them almost as this sort of culmination of thousands of ordinary acts of endurance. Um, almost as though these miracles aren't just lucky moments that are given to everyone, but earned moments that you've worked for throughout the course of your life. I'd love to hear a little bit. You, you write here, miracles aren't lightning strikes. They're the product of persistence. And I'd love to hear a little bit more about how your experience, especially as someone who's dealt with obviously miracles, but just as well as that, all these struggles, how you kind of learned to see miracles as this sort of earned product of persistence rather than just something that's been given.

You know, there's a great parallel in that in the music world, we hear of artists and we call them like overnight breakthroughs. And then you find out that they've been actually working late night clubs and grinding out songs for 30 years when you never heard of them. And so the point is that, you know, certainly there's an element of luck in my survival from 2 bouts of cancer. I'm very well aware that luck is part of it, but so is good medical care and, and so is doing all the things I needed to do emotionally and physically in order to survive. You know, in triathlon, my coach would say to me, you get the race you trained for. And that's not to say that things don't happen the day of, But if you have a training regimen and you cut it short 4 days out of 5, then expect that you're going to have a race at 80% versus doing all of those workouts exactly like you're supposed to in the right timing, in the right order, then you would expect 100% race. And so you get into it, you get out of it what you put into it. And so I felt this was the same way. And, and You know, when we talk about triathlon, it's really about, you know, were you able to do the distance that you set out to do? Did you perform the way you wanted to? Some of it's based on time. Did you finish as quickly as you wanted to? And by and large, you determine the outcome. Sure, things happen, right? The, the water could be rough on the swim. You could have a flat on the bike. You could just, you know, pull a muscle in the run. And so things happen that are, that are beyond your control, but lots and lots and lots of it is in your control. Most importantly, it's in control in your head, and it's the mindset you go into this with. And so I went into every triathlon I did feeling like, all right, I'm in pretty good shape. I did the training, um, I did what I can do, and now the rest, you know, is going to unfold the way it's supposed to unfold. And cancer was the same thing. I, I, I accessed the best medical care I could. I chose medical professionals who I was comfortable with. I tried to wrap my mind around all of the eventualities. What will I do if the treatment doesn't work? What will I do if the side effects get worse? What will I do if I, if I have to stop? And some of it was not about resolving the answers to those questions. It was about coming to peace with the uncertainty that, that laid ahead. So, you know, again, I think it's it's critical that we do the work. I could have just left things up to chance and said, yeah, you know, I'm not going to go get chemo. I'm not going to get radiation. You know, I'm going to sit home all day and not exercise, and then I'm going to see what happens. I know what would happen, right? I would not have survived this. I could have done all the things that I otherwise did and still not survive. But I increased my odds and I took the steps I felt I needed to have the best shot at being successful, you know, in my treatment. But I think these lessons apply apply to life. There's certain things you can't account for, but the things you can control and the preparation that you can do leading up to it, um, certainly is worth its weight in gold. And I go into everything saying, I'm going to do my best and then I'm going to leave it here, because that's the part I can control. And so in the part I can control, I want to give 110% and then understand that the rest of it is not necessarily up to me.

Yeah, I think that's so cool. And I think that really ties into— I was thinking of, while you're speaking, I was just thinking about this quote that I heard You know, I think it was created by a journalist named Jacob Reese and then popularized by, you know, it was in the San Antonio Spurs locker room and then James Clear wrote about it in his book Atomic Habits. And it's this really cool quote and it goes like this: When nothing seems to help, I go and look at a stonecutter hammering away at his rock, perhaps 100 times without as much as a crack showing in it. Yet at the 101st blow, it will split in two. And I know that it was not the last blow that did it, but all that had gone before. And I think this quote is so powerful because, you know, when you look at, like you mentioned in the music industry, or you look at people in the sports industry and all these different people who are just so successful, right? And you just think it happened overnight, right? But the reality is, right, whether that's recovery, whether that's, you know, healing, or whether that's success, all of this happens because of everything that's gone before it, right? And I think even in my own faith, right, like karma is a big, big component, right? In terms of what goes around comes around, what you do is gonna affect you later. And, you know, whatever actions you go are not just empty meaningless actions that don't mean anything. They all contribute to the course of your life later. And I think also on that note of faith, you— I want to change tracks a little bit here and talk a little bit about your own spiritual journey, which you also mentioned throughout the course of this part, right? And this whole— throughout this part, you talk a lot about the way that you wrestle with faith, right? And you mentioned it's not the pretty kind, right? It's not the polished, nice, you know, do I go to church or not? It's the raw questioning version, which is, you know, forged in this your own mind where you're uncertain, you don't know what's going on, you don't know what you believe in almost. And here you say that faith isn't fearlessness, it's forward motion while afraid. I'd love to hear a little bit more about your own spiritual journey, especially through this tough time. Obviously looking back, you know, you, you can say that, oh, you know, I grew through this experience, or this is what I learned. But in that moment when you're going through all these changes or all this turmoil, how do you remember that faith isn't fearlessness, it's forward motion while afraid?

So in the book, I write pretty fast. And so the beginning of the book came fairly easy. The end of the book came fairly easy. And there were some sections in the middle that were much more challenging. And there's a chapter about how cancer changes you spiritually and how it changed me spiritually. And it took me probably 6 weeks to write that chapter. It's 13 pages. I could generally bang out 13 pages in a few hours. And so it took an exceedingly long amount of time because I had to wrestle with some big picture questions. And I contemplated leaving the chapter out of the book altogether. This is just taking too long. I haven't wrestled with some of these questions about, you know, what do I believe in in terms of God? What happens after you die? What do I want my legacy to be? You know, those are big picture questions and I just don't have time to solve them. I've got to get this book out the door. And then as I reflected on it, it was almost like that would be skipping the hardest part of the marathon. That would be like skipping miles 18 to 22. Jumping on a subway and then running across the finish line like you did the whole thing. And so I decided to leave the chapter in. I didn't want to take it out. I wanted to get the book done. But by the same token, I felt like if I was going to do myself more than anything and readers justice, then I needed to struggle through this chapter. And as part of the spiritual journey, I remember talking to several Friends of mine, and one in particular said to me, "I'm praying for you every day." He said it with conviction and faith. I remember thinking to myself, "Oh my God, I'm not even praying for myself every day, or if at all." Maybe I go out for a scan and on the way out the door I say, "Please let this go okay." I felt a lot of guilt about that. Thought about it and said, all right, well, if I start praying now, it feels a little bit opportunistic. I haven't prayed for, for 50-something years, and all of a sudden, you know, I'm facing a challenge. I'm going to start begging and pleading and talking about all the good things I've done in my life. And so I needed to wrestle with a lot of those questions. And generally, they're questions that, you know, I think we all contemplate here and there. But for me, I hadn't fully resolved them. You kind of think about them, you have some ideas, and then you get caught up in other stuff and say, I'll get back to those questions at some point in time. Well, for me, the diagnoses, especially the second one, was the place and time where I said, okay, well, I better figure some of these things out because I don't know what the outcome is going to be here. And my life feels incomplete without being able to wrestle with those issues. So, you know, I wrestled with, with some of those issues. I don't know that I came to any wonderful conclusions other than I certainly acknowledge a higher power that's greater than me, certainly greater than cancer, thank God. And I'm more at peace, I think, with the notion of what happens after this life. How have I lived my life? Have I lived my life in a way that is authentic and genuine and moral and ethical and responsible? And that and those types of things. You know, it's interesting because as you go through any serious illness, especially at this age, like the tense changes, you go from what do I want my legacy to be to what is my legacy been? And you start taking that inventory. And I took that inventory in a very real way. On a lighter note, as you go through this, you start going to church services And, you know, in my case, I went to several funerals. And it's almost like every funeral is a dress rehearsal for your own. And you think about the Psalms that are read, or the songs that are sung, or the saying on the back of the Mass card, and you say, well, I would never have— I'd do it differently, kind of thing. And so you start critiquing everybody else's funeral and, and, and those types of things. So it was, it was, it It was an important part of the journey. It's one that, you know, as you said in the book, it's not all tied up in a neat little bow. It's still, you know, a little bit messy and disheveled. And, you know, I've come to a place where that's okay. Eventually I'll resolve those questions or won't. But I had an opportunity to look at some of them. One of the things about cancer for me, and I think, you know, many people All journeys are different, but I've heard other folks talk about this and spoken to other people who are walking this road who have said there comes a point in time where you realize that you're face to face, not with cancer, but face to face with yourself and really need to do that inventory of who am I, what was and what is my purpose here? You know, I'm bargaining for a few more years. What do I want those years to look like? I'm asking for second and third chances. What will I do with those second and third chances? Who's important to me? And, you know, if I want to continue on and hope that my treatment's successful, what's at the end of that? And so as much as they're vexing questions, they're also exciting and clarifying questions. And it helps you sort out in your life All right, what's important? What's not important? You know, is this the fact that a guy cut me off in traffic? Is it that important? Suddenly things that maybe got under your skin and seemed important suddenly seem far less important. And you begin thinking a little bit more critically about how you spend your time, how you talk to God as you define God, but also how you talk to yourself. And I heard a great quote from Brené Brown as I was working on the book. And she wrote in her book about vulnerability and daring greatly. It was along the lines of, if you talk to your friends the way you talk to yourself, you'd have no friends. And so you think about that and you think about the way you judge yourself and the way you criticize yourself. And for me, I had to rethink a lot of that and probably these days, Yeah, I'm still critical and I'm still thoughtful and I try to be authentic, but by the same token, I understand I'm human.

Well, that's such a like packed kind of narrative right in there. I don't even know where to, where to begin from this, but I think there's a lot of really cool points, right? One I think that you made that, that really resonated with me was the one about your social circle and your friends and people around you, right? When you said, when you were talking about that you don't even pray for yourself every day, but there's friends out there, you know, true friends who are praying for you. I'd love to talk a little bit more about how cancer or just this journey overall maybe changed you socially, or, you know, your friends and your circle. You talk about how these illnesses or certain challenges can rearrange your community, right? Who stays, who fades, and, you know, who ends up actually appearing when you didn't expect them to. And I'd love to hear a little bit more about your journey through that. Obviously in that moment, you are the center of attention for both yourself and the community, right? In terms of, or at least everyone who cares about you. So, you know, it's obviously hard being vulnerable. It's obviously hard being the one that needs care and is going through these struggles. But when it comes to your gratitude, both for the people around you and your realization for the social dynamics around you. I'd love to hear a little bit more about your own journey through the social challenges and successes that you may have faced through your journey.

Sure. The thing that changed the most was my relationships with my male friends. So I have, you know, as you get older, I think your circle of friends narrows in quantity, but increases in quality, and that those friendships become longer term, they become more mature. And so I've got 5 or 6 male friends who I would consider to be close friends, and then I've got folks that are just outside that sphere, and then I've got folks that are colleagues, acquaintances, running buddies, that kind of thing. Um, my relationships with my close friends changed pretty dramatically, um, in that all of them started expressing, uh, love for me. And, you know, I wind up going to lunch with some of them and we'd finish up lunch. And there was one occasion where a friend said to me, "I love you." And it threw me off guard. It wasn't like the drunken slap on the back, "I love you," and I didn't really know what to say, so I didn't say anything. And then I get in my car and I said to myself, why did this throw me to the extent that it did? And my mind immediately went to, oh, he thinks I'm going to die. Like, he thinks this is the last time we're having lunch. He kept saying I looked so good, and now he's saying this. And so maybe he really thinks I'm going to check out and he's got to say this before, you know, we don't have another chance to meet. And then I realized it's really in all those cases was really an attempt to strengthen that bond and strengthen that connection. I do think that my friends were worried about me and worried about what the diagnosis meant. And despite my strength, people die of cancer all the time. And so I think it was an attempt to get close. And another one of my friends who was in that camp of saying, "I love you," which I eventually got comfortable with, said to me, "Look, if you ever need a ride to chemo or you just want me to sit there with you, I'm more than happy to do that." And with chemo, the way I got it was I had to go on a Thursday. I had blood tests in the very early morning and then sat there in an infusion chair for 6 6 hours with ice gloves on and ice socks on, hoping to stave off some of the side effects. And so you can do some work. In fact, I wrote part of the book during those infusion sessions, but my wife went with me to all those sessions. This friend knew I had a car, knew I didn't really need company and that kind of thing, but it was an attempt on his part to connect in a different way. And one of my big takeaways from that experience— and I never took him up on the offer. I took him up on other offers, but I never took him up on that offer. And one of my big takeaways was sometimes when people offer help, it's as much for them as it is for you. And it's an attempt to create a bond. I don't need someone to drive me to chemo. He wanted to do that in order to connect with me as I walked this road. He was basically asking to walk beside me. Me. Um, I said no, which I regret to this day. Again, we, we found other ways to connect. But understand that sometimes when people offer you help, it's not because they truly think you need help. It's because they want to be part of that journey with you. And in being part of it, it helps solidify the relationship, that helps strengthen the connection, but also makes them part of your life in a way that's even, even more meaningful. So, you know, that, that was one of my key takeaways. I also think back, you know, once you're diagnosed and you start telling people, and I was very open about my diagnosis almost as soon as my, my wife and my kids knew, then I was very public about it. And when you are, that means that people in your circle and from just outside your circle come to you and say, oh, I got diagnosed too. And, and there's a group of 5 or 6 of us that got diagnoses around the same time or a little bit before or a little bit after. And 2 of those folks have died. In fact, they died on the same Sunday in August. And so you begin thinking about that. And, you know, there's something called survivor's guilt, and it's something that returning military service people in the U.S. struggle with. You know, how come I made it back and they didn't? And so for me, I look back at folks that had diagnoses that may have not have been as serious as mine, but they passed on. And so whenever somebody connected to me these days dies of cancer, particularly if they're in my age group where we got diagnosed around the same time, you know, immediately your thought is, oh my God, that could be me. Your next thought is, that wasn't me. Like, it's not necessarily fair. And so there's a lot that goes into the equation. And so I did struggle with some of that survivor's guilt as, as, as I looked at my circle of friends and also as I looked at the circle in the infusion rooms, there were folks that I saw every time I went there and they got sicker and sicker and sicker. And then the next time I'd go and they wouldn't be there. And I knew it wasn't because they completed treatment and were well. I knew it's because they had stopped treatment and probably moved over to palliative care. So there's a lot. Cancer dramatically changes you socially. I will say there's nobody who, you know, blatantly pulled away and said, I'm freaked out. There are folks who I think maintain the current level of contact we have. But most people ratcheted up that contact. One of the pieces of advice I give to general folks that maybe know someone that's been recently diagnosed, or you have friends, or you will, because look, 2 million Americans get the cancer news every year. Any sentence that begins with the words "at least" Don't say it to a person with cancer. There were times when people would say to me, at least you still have your hair. And there's a part of me that said inside, look, that's the least of my concerns. I'm not that worried about whether or not I lose my hair. If I were female or cared more about my hair, it might be a different equation. There are people who would say, well, at least you could still go to work. And so sentences to begin with, at least generally are nonstarters because it's very hard to see you know, the, the good parts of this. And if there are good parts of this or, or less serious parts, then you don't necessarily focus on them. I also offered in the book that if you want to do something for somebody that gets this diagnosis, just do it. Don't say, if you ever need anything, just call me, because we will never call you. That's not going to happen. And so if you want to do something nice, if you want to make a meal, if you want to invite somebody out to lunch, if I just want to come and sit with somebody during chemo. My suggestion is you just show up and do it. Beg for forgiveness if they don't want you there. But if you put it out there and say, call me if you need anything, it's not a real offer. And we understand that it's not a real offer. So, you know, those two things. If you know someone with cancer or any other serious problem, you know, don't compare it to something else that's happened in your life because every journey looks a little bit different. And the things that lift us up and the things that maybe bring us down a little bit, you know, can change day by day. And then secondarily, if you want to help, just do it. You don't have to ask for permission.

I think that's so powerful from, from so many aspects, right? The fact that obviously your relationships changed and, or, or, you know, got more powerful through this process, and the fact that you were able to look at that from even a whole different perspective of if I were a person trying to take care of, or if a as a friend of someone who's dealing with this, how would I deal with it? But I think, you know, through this book and through your journey yourself, as you mentioned, what changed even more was your own journey with yourself, right? And I think that's something that in today's world, it's so easy to forget that we're on this constant journey with ourselves. And, you know, because, because there's— it's so easy to get distracted, it's so easy to, you know, put away with other things. And to be honest, you know, obviously it's a blessing, but most of us in this world are never going to have to deal with the level of difficulty or challenge that you have. That jolts us back to that kind of reality. I think, as for my last question, I know we're running out of time a little bit here, but I'd love to hear a little bit more because you make a certain, a few points here throughout this part about how healing isn't just about getting back to your life. It's about creating a new version. About how you know, these forming these relationships isn't just like going back to your same friends. It's almost like your relationships have new, they're more deep than they were before. Same with your physical journey and same with your spiritual journey. And I think in that way, you talk a lot about how the things that you did so monotonously through your daily life, whether that's, you know, getting upset at someone who cut you off or, um, you know, something as simple as just walking around the park, um, or in your case running, it changed, right? And I'd love to, as a final question, just hear a little bit more about your, your own journey with yourself, um, you know, perspective changes and how you decided— like you mentioned, you're gambling for a few extra years here, right? Um, how did you feel like going through this difficult journey made you want to live your own life differently in the years to come?

So many people will say, I just want my old life back. And I didn't experience that because I now see things differently. I now see the concept of time a little bit differently. Those friendships have deepened and changed. I've changed who I am as a person and the things I talk about. You know, my wife, who's now my wife, we got married last December. But when I started this journey with prostate cancer, we were only dating 6 months. And I remember saying to her, look, you didn't sign up for this. And if you need to tap out, I've— this is a lot. I fully understand that. I get it. She's like, there's no chance I'm doing that. Like, we're, we're in this together. We're going to walk this road together and do it. And that provides a sense of strength, um, and stamina that you don't see in many relationships, in many marriages. So, you know, your marriage is Your marriage changes, your relationship changes. My relationship with my kids deepened. Um, you know, I had to look into their eyes and say, Dad's sick again. Um, those are moments that you don't forget, and those are moments that you cherish. And then when, you know, a doctor says to you, look, there's no evidence of disease, and suddenly, you know, being able to stare into my daughter's eyes and say, I'm gonna be there when you get married, which I hope isn't for a very long time, by the way, you know, it changes, you know. You learn gratitude because those are things— all the things that you take as a given are suddenly thrown up in the air and you don't know where they're all going to land. And when, you know, they all land in a pretty solid way, you're very, very thankful to say, all right, I went through this. It looks like I'm going to be okay. This is great news. This is phenomenal. What will I do with it now? And so it changed the way I look at things. It changed the way I look at time. It changed the way I do my work. Will this matter in 5 years? Will this matter in 5 days? You begin really sorting out and saying, I want to do things that matter. I want to spend time with the people who matter. I want to treat myself in a way that is authentic and respectful. And that doesn't mean that you're never self-critical, but it does mean that you give yourself more grace and say, geez, you know, I've survived this twice. I'm really doing the best I can. And quite frankly, at the end of the day, I'm doing okay. And I think finding that peace— would I have found it without cancer? I don't know, maybe. Generally you find it at end of life, but I feel like I was given an opportunity. You know, people who die suddenly in, you know, car crashes, whatever else, don't have that opportunity, right? Life is immediately stopped. You know, I've been given the opportunity to to heal, to think these things through, the gift of some additional time and to live my life in a different way, both internally as well as externally.

That's incredible. I think this was incredible. And Dr. Reynolds, thank you so much for sharing this. Yeah. And with that, let's wrap up part 2 of Every Mile Matters. I mean, today was loaded, right? It was a pretty heavy episode, but I think it was much needed and I think it was one of the most essential parts, or at least one of the most talked about parts, uh, in your own journey, right? From your social, your journey, your spiritual journey, the gratitude that you gained along the way, and how such a difficult challenge journey has kind of made you want to reflect and live your own life in a different way. Uh, once again, Dr. Reynolds, thank you so much, uh, for, for turning your pain into our perspective and, and reminding us that healing, just like racing right, is done best one honest mile at a time.

Thanks for having me. See you soon.

Yes, sir. And to our listeners, whatever road you're on, whatever you're facing, remember that every mile matters. And don't forget to keep on learning, keep on changing, and keep on growing. We'll see you next time for part 3.