Addiction Relapse Prevention Strategies That DON'T WORK!

Hey everyone, I have a extra special bonus for you today. We are here with LT. He is from the YouTube channel recovering addict. And we are going to talk with you about some rookie mistakes that people early in recovery often make that lead to relapse. I'm telling you, I see these all the time. All the time. And I thought LT might be the best one to tell you about him because he's going to be our expert witness. Can I call you our expert witness? Yeah. All right, so, lt, tell us a little bit about, about yourself and why you're qualified to be an expert.

Because I've made a ton of mistakes in my life. Two times I've hit rock bottom from drugs and alcohol. In the early 2000s was meth. And then in my late 30s, not understanding addiction or what being an addict really means or recovery, I became a social drinker in my early 30s, right? And by the time I hit 40, it was a fifth of night and I had to end up checking myself into a hospital to detox off of whiskey because I was drinking like fifths a night and gallons on the weekend.

Wow. Gallons gal.

As much as I could. I'd wake up and drink blackout, wake up, drink, blackout, until finally I had enough.

I call that leaving Las Vegas style drinking. Right there.

Yes.

Wow. Okay, so those are, those are. Lt's qualifications. I think we'll all agree that he's qualified to speak on this subject. So. So the way this came up is because you said this phrase and some kind of conversation we were having. Tell them what the phrase is. And I just probably people say that where you're at all the time, but I had not heard it before and I loved it.

So if you're in recovery, one of the things you want to do to prevent relapse or to go back to that lifestyle is making sure you close the back door.

Yeah, yeah.

Closing the back doors.

So tell us what that means.

What it means to me is I look at my house, right? Say you have a house and you got very valuable things inside your family, right? Your families could be very valuable to you. Maybe you have high end computers or whatever and you lock all the front doors, you bar up all the windows, but you leave the back door open, you leave it cracked, right? Thieves can still get in. And in recovery, our mind and our temptation and the self we're trying to improve is our how is our home and our security. We don't want that addict who is the thief to slip in that back door. So we want to make sure all the Doors, the whole house is secured. And there's certain ways you can go about doing that.

I love that because I find that people, even people that are really trying to get this thing, I mean, even people who have the best intentions, they do. They do some of those things. They leave some of these back doors unlocked, and they always have some reasons for it. So I hope we talk about those. But. LT is going to give us three mega major ways that people leave the back door unlocked. And we're gonna get some security on that today, right? Yes. We're gonna get some high tech. Get it on lockdown after this. Yeah.

So the first one I think about, and I challenge you to think about, because recovery's work. You got to really put a lot of thought and heart into it. So you just stepped into recovery. Say you got a month under your belt and you want this to succeed. Think about anybody, anybody in your circle of life that does not know you're in recovery, that could possibly be a backdoor that's left open, somebody that you could sneak away with and get high, use and come back and nobody would know, which could lead to a full blown relapse. Your doctor. Does your doctor know. Are you sitting in your doctor's office after you broke your foot and he doesn't know you're new to recovery. Maybe your alcohol is your drug of choice. And he gets out his pad and he's going to write you a prescription. And at that moment, your addict is going to try to slip in that back door and start, hey, you know, this is a freebie. It's a prescription. And all these justifications are going to start rolling through your head because our addicts want us to get high. Because what is life in general? To have as much pleasure and as little pain as possible. And any chance the addict has to, to jump on that, to, you know, capitalize on that investment for you, he's going to try to take advantage of it.

And when you're saying our addict, you mean like sometimes I'll call it like the monster mouth inside. Or it's like that little devil sitting shoulder. You're talking about that little voice inside, right?

Yes. That voice inside that talks you into doing the things that you regret later.

Okay, now, L.T. i'm gonna play a little devil's advocate here. Hey, Paige, thanks for joining us. I'm gonna play a little devil's advocate. Okay, here's. Here's what. Here's what the resistance that I get, okay? It's going to be. Well, that's my business. I don't need to be telling everyone. Like I don't need to tell my co workers, like that's confidential. That's my business. What do you say? What do you say to that?

I refer him to chapter five how it works.

Okay.

As we rarely, and I guess that word was used to be never. We never see people fail who thoroughly follow this program. And that whole little chapter goes about, on about honesty and, and the more honest you are in recovery, I mean you don't have to go out and tell people your full blown story, all your dirty secrets. All you can say is, hey, I had a problem with this and I do not want it in my life anymore and just draw a boundary with anybody, you know. And the more you know, the closer people are to you. You can open up and get into the details, but at least make it known to people that you've had a problem with a substance and you no longer want that in your life. And what I've learned and from my experience in doing that, because I've made sure ever like I've gone above and beyond what most people do.

I'm a Goodyear blimp.

Yeah. But the support that is is offered from people is, was not expected. You get way more support than you would even imagine. And you get a lot of respect too. And opening up the way that I have in the, I don't know, the normal life, the co worker life. Right. People actually come up to me and you know, they kind of do one of these. They look around, hey, that needs help. Can you. And then they're asking for advice.

Right. I was gonna say hey to Stephanie and, or I don't, I didn't say her name right. Safirin and Sherry joined us. But one of the things I was thinking when you said that some of sometimes when I hear that I know that people purposefully are not telling certain people because it's like just in case this whole sobriety thing doesn't work out. You know, my cousin Ray Ray, he doesn't know and we might want to hang out, you know, like. But other times people don't it because they just feel really embarrassed about it and they feel uncomfortable and they're worried about judgment. So it's not necessarily that they are planning to go do something all the time. It really is because they feel uncomfortable about it. But I, I tell them exactly what you said. I'm saying, let me tell you what's the worst thing that's gonna happen? The worst thing's gonna happen is everyone, you know is going to be coming out the woodworks, telling you about them or their brother or their wife, and you're just going to be playing therapist. That's the worst that's going to happen.

That's what I tell them and that. And what you're saying there, too, about the embarrassment or the justification to not want to come out. I'm reading a book called addictive Personality, and it's about our perception. And it talks about this chunk in there about people who are afraid to go to an AA meeting or an N A meeting or tell somebody about their addiction because they don't want people to see them like that. But then on the other hand, they'll go out to the bar or somewhere else and get completely plastered and pass out in public in front of everybody and not worried about the perception that that might bring. You know?

Right.

The perception of you trying to improve yourself is something to be ashamed of, but actually going out and partying until you make a fool of yourself is okay. So that's just a perception of the addicted personality that's built in addiction.

It's just a barrier that's being put there that's not even. It's probably kind of false. Like you said, for the most part, you're probably outed already. Yeah, you probably don't think people know, but a lot of people probably already know. Hey, Tara, thank you for joining us.

Hey, Tara.

So, and then with the doctor you mentioned, you know, make sure your doctor knows. And you might be thinking, well, I'm alcoholic. You know, the doctor's not gonna give me alcohol. Talk to us a little bit about that.

They have prescribed opiates like crazy. And opiates is a downer. Alcohol is a downer. And it's just one more step closer to the. Your drug of choice. Your addict wants to get high. Say you have six months clean.

You.

You go and get a Percocet, right? You get a small prescription for a Percocet that you take that Percocet, it activates your addict, and you're like, ooh, this feels good. And then your inhibitions and you just slowly start rolling that ball to the addictive personality that we've built, the addictive thinking that we have. And you're like, ah, you know, this didn't hurt me. Maybe, you know, a couple beers or, you know, a half a pint of whiskey just to hang on to and sip on won't be that bad.

Right.

Starts out and feels innocent and seems innocent, but could lead you right back to where you were.

It's that whole, well, let me just move the line out a little bit. And once we start doing that, it's just. And then we move it a little bit more and a little bit more. Right. So what's your. What's your second back door that you need to make sure is shut?

I would go through your phone. Do you have friends on your list that you know could tempt you to get high? Let them know and delete their content. Or if you. If you're afraid to let them say it's a drug dealer, delete.

Get.

Just get rid of any contact. If you have to block people on Facebook, block. This is your house. This is your security. This is your life. You know, take it seriously. This is a life or death situation for a lot of us. And the more vigilant you are on actively cutting these things out of your life, the better your recovery is going to be. So go through your phone list and look at every name and think about the person you see. And if they don't belong there and. And they're not going to help you in recovery, just get rid of them. No harm, no foul. They'll come back around later and you can see you in recovery and, you know, make amends if you need to. But at the. For right out of the gate, get rid of anything that's going to hinder your recovery.

All right? And when Devil's advocate you again, right? Because I. I know what, I know what people are thinking, right? They're thinking. But some of these people I've been friends with my whole life, like we went to kindergarten together. Like, that's my brother. What about those friends?

I'm going to give you a personal example that goes a little deeper than that in this present second. My dad, okay? He's an addict. He still has the addictive personality. He's in complete denial, right? He's in his 60s, 26 years older than me, and he is in a pinch because he's an addict. Asked if he could come and stay with us, and I had to cut him out. I said, no, dad, this. And I was completely honest. I said, I love you. I'm here to support you. You're my dad. But because of. I believe you're abusing your drugs, I'm in recovery. I have a family to worry about. I can't. I cannot have you here. And of course, his reaction was the addict reaction of victim cut me out of his life. But that's a measure I had to take to protect my sobriety and that's my dad.

What was that like for you on the inside, emotionally? What did it take for you to come to terms with that?

I'm still coming to terms with it because it's my. It's been my whole life. Right. And so it's actually funny you bring this up, because just two, three days ago, I had to revisit step four, and I reopened the big book. I went to page 65 and 66. Read through there again. I got a pen and paper out, and I wrote down resentments. And there's three people on this list that I'm having a really tough time with, and he was on the top. And so I rewrote those down. And what did I do? I waited till my spot. I was up early doing this, too. I waited till my sponsor got out of bed. I text him, and we hashed it out. And then I have a group that I go to, and I talked about it there as well. So work in your program being open and honest and understanding these emotions that we feel it. We're human. It's okay to feel them. It's how we handle them that's going to, you know, successful failure. And it's. It's not easy. It's. It's. It's rough. It's my dad. You know, I want approval from him. I want instruction through life, but I have to take the steps I have to take.

So the major. One of the major feelings for you brought up was resentment about a frustration about your dad. Not probably, I'm guessing, just not really being like a dad, like, figure.

Absolutely right.

Other people might feel guilt or shame or embarrassment. There's a lot of negative feelings that can come up with that. And I think guilt is one for a lot of people, especially if it's like a friend, a close family member. You know, maybe it's someone that's even been there for you in the past. And for you to have to sort of put that boundary there, it's tough, you know, and it's not necessarily. You have a hard time putting it because you want to do something, but again, it's just. It's difficult to draw that line.

It is. It's very difficult.

All right. Tara says if you come up against someone who doesn't get it, then it's an opportunity to. And educate them, is what she says.

Okay. What do you mean, Tara, by doesn't get it that you're in recovery? I'll just go that maybe they don't get that you're in recovery? Yeah. You can educate them, send them links. We do this with Amber's channel all the time. She has. I have a friend down south who is going through addiction with her husband. She's drawn lines as the spouse. And what was that last video you made about three things to help support some. Was it three things to help support somebody that's going through recovery?

Anyway, the point about my last two.

It was a great video. I sent her that video. And what I do is I find people like Amber who know what they're talking about and send them links. You can send them to AA or N A or you can send them to Al Anon and anything that might educate them on what the addiction does to the person. Because the better that a person on the outside of addiction looking in can, if they can differentiate the addict from the person they know who's behind the addict, the more they're apt to help.

Right.

I feel.

Yeah, that makes. That's a really good point about that Tara's making about the Educate them. Because. Even I, of course, know exactly what that means. But not everyone lives in that world. Not everyone knows exactly what the rules of that game are. I had a client who went out of state to visit a friend recently. Told the friend everything had just come out of rehab, set him in recovery for this. Everything. But the roommates were just drinking and using and partying all weekend around. Did not end well. So people don't understand what that means. So it's not just say, hey, in recovery, but what are the rules of that game?

You cut out on the first part. I didn't catch the first part of your thing. But what I think the rules, if they're on the outside looking in and they don't understand addiction. Is that what you're. What you asked?

Right. Like, they may know you're in recovery, but they may not know what that means.

Oh, then I would set a list of like, this is recovery. And this is what I can't be. I can't be a part of and I can't be subject to. I can't be subject to high risk situations. So if you guys are going to go to the bar, I love you guys, but just don't invite me. Because even just the invite is somewhat of a trigger. And just know that I can't come and be a part of people drinking or using because that's high risk for me. Barbecue. And you guys decide it's a sober barbecue, invite me, I'll be there. And I've had to do that in my life. Is Just draw the, just to give them examples of what you can and can't be a part of in their life. Not nothing personal against them. You're just protecting yourself.

Right. Because a lot of people just don't know. They don't know what problem, what's not right.

Exactly.

All right. LT give us that third back door.

Okay, so say you got friends that like to come over a couple times a year and they like to come and have a couple cocktails when they stay at your house. And, and so you're in recovery now, but you've left wine up in the cellar, you've left whiskey or any type of paraphernalia. And marijuana is big these days, so maybe you got some gummies laying around, clean your house out, get rid of it. And then the people that like to come and visit that you want to save this for, just tell them, hey, I don't drink, I don't use anymore. And I, you know, if you come over again, we're, we're going to hang out sober. And by eliminating any paraphernalia out of your house is going to increase the chances of you succeeding in recovery. When I went into my Iop, my intense outpatient program, I completely cleaned out my house to the point where I got rid of mouthwash, shot glasses, wine glasses, anything that had alcohol in it, any type of Claritin, even an allergy medicine that had the D, anything that could have been possible mind altering was completely eliminated and thrown away out of my house.

I found that's a super common one. It's not just even keeping the substance, but like you're saying, even keeping the, the paraphernalia or the triggers. I can remember once I was working in detox, we were talking about this, like getting rid of your triggers or whatever in detox. And this guy said, now we're in South Carolina, but pretty close to here, it's a town called Asheville in North Carolina. It's like hipster land. And he said, he said, I just went to Asheville, like last week. I bought this bong. I paid $50 for it. It's beautiful blue glass. Like, I'm not getting rid of that. I just paid good money.

Yeah, no, get rid of it. $50 or you possibly relapse. And what is our mottos or what is the motto of AA&N A Gels, Institutions and Death? Is 50 bucks worth really trying to go, possibly be tempted to going back to that? I don't think so.

Right. So it's all these roadblocks to doing These things, it's the, well, it'll be embarrassing. Well, that cost me a lot of money. Well, you know, like, I don't want to hurt their feelings. It's these roadblocks that we come up against. But really if you don't do those things, it's going to be more embarrassing, it's going to cost you more money, and you're going to do more mean things to hurt people. So comparatively, you just got to get real honest with yourself about it.

And I think that's a rookie mistake is looking at those moments. I mean, you can't help but feel, you know, your knee jerk reaction is to feel embarrassed, but to use that as a justification to, to not do it or to justify it, hey, I spent the money on this and it's worth this much. I think those types of perspectives on your recovery is a rookie mistake. You really need to think about what you're doing because it literally is life or death for a lot of us.

Right. I see a lot of young people who say, you know, well, I still have 300 worth of weed or whatever it is, because I'm just going to sell it, you know, like, and I'm just going to keep it and I'm gonna sell it because I, I can't waste that money, you know, and so it's always some roadblock or barrier there.

Yeah, those types of things. I mean, what are your values now? Do you really want to give that out back to somebody else to possibly get somebody else hooked you don't know about and that just ruined another life? Get rid of it. And I've noticed that in recovery, the more good you do, the more rewards you get. And you know, if you want to call it karma, whatever you want to call it, but by getting rid of that and actually having a good value system and living that value system, more rewards turn. So 300 bucks, it's just money. Get rid of it. Because life and positivity and living happy is way worth More than 300 bucks.

Exactly. And I agree with you LT. I tell clients all the time, a lot of them come, when they come to see me, they have dug into some kind of big hole of a mess. And I will tell them, I say, listen, I don't know how it's going to work out. I don't know. But what I can tell you is when people get on the right path, it works out like it does. It's just different miracles, different things. But it fixes, you know, trouble with the law. You know, your spouse is done with you, you know, you could all of these things. It's not like everything's perfect, but these big things seem to work through. I've seen it hundreds of times.

Absolutely. My life has improved tenfold. Even when I was in my, for an example, my Iop, once I started going there, I was there five days a week, three and a half hours every single night. And my wife commented, she goes, you're gone more, but you're here more at the same time. And just by me practicing a program and improving my sobriety to begin with. Right. It improved our marriage. And I was at an Iop. I was at work and an Iop, but I was still more present with my family.

You know, a lot of times people will ask me questions. Sometimes family members ask me this, but sometimes people struggling with addiction ask me this. You know, they'll relapse. They'll have this, you know, my loved one day relapse eight times. Why is that? And I usually say there's something that they know deep down inside they need to do and they're not doing it. And it's one of these holdouts. It's this person they don't want to get rid of. It's this person they don't want to tell. It's some kind of like the last hang up. And they just. Or sometimes it's just like, I'll quit all these drugs, but not this drug. But there's one last hang up, something they don't want to let go of. And that's what's keeping them stuck 100%.

Yeah. Like, as, like I said before, as us humans, we want the most pleasurable life with the least amount of pain. And when you're coming to getting off of drugs and addiction, you have to have that switch in your mind that more pleasure comes from not using. And actually more pain comes from using. And we have it reversed in our mind that, oh, if I use, that's where the pain relief is going to be. That's where the pleasure is going to be. And until you can see the difference and switch that in your mind, you'll definitely keep going back. And whatever's keeping you looking at alcohol or drugs as a pain relief, a coping mechanism, and getting pleasure out of life when it's actually, in fact hurting you, you need to make that perspective change. A paradigm shift.

Yeah. Paradigm shift. That's perfect. Yep. I was talking to a new client just past week, and she said, why do I keep going back to it? And I said, because you keep looking at it as Pleasurable. And you keep feeling like you're depriving yourself. One question I ask my clients is, does it really even work for you anymore? Because a lot of times, by the time someone's got to me, it doesn't even do the job anymore. You know what? It doesn't work anymore. You know, it's not even same fun.

Like, yeah, it becomes a chore.

Yeah, we got a couple of questions up here. Lisa's got a question. She says, let me pop it up here. First of all, I just want you to know I need a feliz to manage this for me. You tell her I said, does removing alcohol and drugs need to be done by the addict himself?

Not necessarily. If it's going to be hard for you to put your hands on it, have your support system go through your house. If you're in, say you're in a treatment facility and they know you're coming home next week, shoot them a text. Hey, will you clean anything out of the house that has to do with any type of drugs? And if you have a support system, they'd be happy to do it. I'll guarantee it.

Oh, yeah, they will.

You know, if it's going to trigger you, I wouldn't. I would have somebody else help you do it.

Right. You can have your loved one take it out for you. You can have a friend in recovery, a sponsor, somebody come sort of hold your hand while you do. I've seen lots of clients do this. I've had a lot of clients bring drugs to me and hand them over my office. I'm always a little nervous about that. I'll tell you. I'll tell you a funny story about that. I had this set of parents in my office one time, and they had, like, search the house. They find all this stuff their teenage son had, and they brought in this book bag full of stuff and dumped it out on my coffee table. This stuff. What is this? What are these? You know, like. And it was funny. And I had a session right after that, and of course, I didn't want to take it back, so I just had to gather it up all really fast. I just set it in the kitchen because I didn't have time to deal with it. I had this next session, and there was this giant bong, green bong that sat on our kitchen counter for, like, two weeks. And. No, I said, I'll say anything about it. I said, no, you're not gonna say nothing about that. It was just funny. It was like. Just sit there like. Like it was supposed to be there. I know, silly. Let's see here. Melissa's got a question. She says, how can I be supportive to a loved one that's trying to recover if I don't want to push and judge? That's a real good question. Melissa, what you got on that L.T. wow.

If you don't want to push or judge, I would just. Whatever they're doing at the present moment in their recovery, give them accolades, give them high fives and pat them on the back. As drugs and alcohol, as drug addicts and alcoholics, we already have a low self esteem and drugs and alcohol have helped further that low self esteem. Anything you can see, positive, period, always praise them for their positive, positive progress in anything that they're doing in life, period. Even with recovery. And if they start going back towards that other way, you draw that boundary line. My wife always uses a great example for when I was drinking and the boundary she had to draw and enabling, right? If I'd come home drunk, pass out on the lawn, she brings me in the house and tucks me into bed, she just enabled. I didn't get to experience the consequence of my action. And so by her just leaving me out in the yard, letting me wake up to the sprinklers hitting my face, I wake up hungover, come in and see the family doing family things. Then I'm convicted of my actions. And so it's, it's good to support where they're doing well and draw the lines to not enable to let them feel the consequences of their actions.

Right?

By that you're not going to attack them by judgment because you can't punish them into recovery. You can't cold shoulder them into recovery. You just got to be supportive where support's needed and do not enable in the ways that don't need to be enabled.

I couldn't agree more. I call that positive and neutral. Those are your only two modes of operation as the family member. One thing I might just even add what LT San is not just even positively reinforce like say, you know, hey, I'm so proud of you, but maybe even also acknowledge the difficulty. So like if, if you, if your loved one did tell some friends or take some contacts out or get rid of, you know, the wine glasses, say, you know what, I know that was really difficult. Like have an empathy statement and they really feel heard and understood. I feel like when you do that, oh, 100 yeah.

Oh, you realize this is difficult for me and they feel a little bit more supportive for. Yeah, 100 yeah.

Let's see here we answered that one. Tara says I had to set very firm boundaries with a family when it came to. When it became toxic to my health and dealing with my son's addiction. I cut them off to. To survive. It's better now. I'm better now. So Tara's even talking about as a family member, setting boundaries with other people related to her son's addiction.

Yeah, that's a tough one. That's kind of what I went through with my dad. And you set those boundaries. It's tough, but life will teach them.

A lot of times after you do that one really hard thing that you've been just resisting for a long time, there's such a sense of relief. And a lot of times it's like, I'll ask myself, like, man, why didn't you that earlier? Like, why did I let that go on so long? Like, dread, where I've just been dreading something and then finally do it. You feel better?

Yep. It's tough with a child too, because like with my father and son relationship, I'm looking for a leader, a father, you know, but when you're the protector and provider for the child to understand, because it's our natural instinct to want a protect the family. And sometimes the steps that we take in that protection is actually enabling. And it's very hard and difficult just to cut them and let them, hey, you're over there. And if that's the life you participate in, I won't be a part of it. It's not easy to do.

No, it's tough. This is what Linda says. It's hard to praise the addict after many years of having to pick up the pieces and never things ever getting better. As a mother, it gets harder. My child needs help but won't get it.

Man, that. That's tough because then that goes into understanding the addict, understanding addiction, and then that's a. That's a personal thing between you and your resentments and forgiving of the past, what are you willing to forgive as far as that goes? How much do you want to support them? And through your support of that person, understanding where they were in addiction is going to have you challenge yourself in. In forgiveness and getting over what the hurts they did to, you know, further the progress in the future. That's kind of a personal one. That's, that's. That's a tough one to deal with because it feels justified. You did that to me. You don't deserve this forgiveness from, you know, so it's a. It's a sacrifice, self sacrificing.

Well, I think to the family, it can feel like, why should I brag on them for doing something that they should be doing? You know, it's like, why should I tell them, good job for breathing? You know, Like, I get that. You know, it's especially because it has been so hurtful. And for the families that we deal with, there does come a point where you need to separate yourself. And if you have to do that, if you've got to set a boundary for yourself, that's okay. But. But if you're still in the game with them, this is what I tell the families. I say everything I tell you to do. It is not fair. I'll tell you right now, it's not fair that you have to be the good guy. What I tell you to do is what works, not what's fair. So it's kind of like it's tough. If I'm still in the game with them, then these are the things that work. But it's also okay to be out of the game for a while or even at all. Totally get it.

Yeah. 100%.

Lisa says, does court ordered rehab work if it wasn't voluntary? What do you think?

I love this question. We call it around here a nudge from the judge. Anything I say, I've heard somewhere and I regurgitate that. So I'm actually going to bounce off of Amber because like I said, I have a friend in the south who I've dealt with and I've actually got in contact with Amber to help through this. And I think anything that cleans their mind up for a good period of time and gives a chance for anything positive to enter that mind while it's not under the influence of alcohol and drugs, has been potential to help, and it's a possibility. So, yeah, it can definitely help. Will it? You know, you'll never know. Time will tell, but it can. And I think it's a good thing, right?

I say all the time you don't have to wait for someone to want it. You just have to wait for someone to be willing to do it. There's a difference that no one wants it, so don't wait for that.

And the more knowledge they have in their head about recovery, the better it is. They have a saying that goes around, you can't have a belly full of whiskey and a head full of a. A And that it's really true.

Right. It's a total buzzkill.

It ruined your drinking.

If you know too much about aa, let's see. Michelle says, my Husband's been sober for five weeks. I'm proud of him. But I'm still having issues with myself not believing him and finding it. Finding things trigger me to put my wall up. How can I overcome my insecurities? What you got on that lt?

Well, I'm gonna bounce off my wife, Felice, because she had to deal with that with me as an addict. And I took my wife through a good three years of hardcore alcohol addiction, which turned her into a codependent co addict, where my addiction affected her and turned her into having to put up the barriers of self defense, walking on eggshells, not knowing what mood I was going to be in, to the point where she's tracking where I'm going, what's our bank account look like? And then that becomes an addiction of your own. And when the person decides to get into recovery and now you have to recover as well, because it's not just that person in recovery, it's a. Like, my wife and I, we have family recovery. She came to family counseling with us. She did her own separate counseling to help through her issues that I pushed on her that turned her into the co addict. And so learning those things about you that trigger you is something you're going to have to recover through. So right now, you and your husband was it. Are going to have to recover together. Like I have a saying, you can see it right there. We recover better together. But it's a family recovery thing. And if you have children too, they're also going to have to recover as well. So if you guys can group up as a family unit and recover together, that's. That's what it is.

Yeah. Michelle, one of the things that I tell families a lot and that honestly I tell myself a lot, is, you know, if the issue is you're not trusting them and you have that urge to sneak investigate, get your black light out, whatever it is you're gonna do, I get it. But why, like in the past, probably you were doing it to prove it because you knew it was happening, but the person was lying to you. If the person's in recovery and you're worried, what if they relapse and I don't know it? It's not gonna happen. You're gonna know it. Like, addiction shows itself, you don't have to look for it, okay? Someone might sneak by and have a drink. You don't know it or smoke a joint or do one thing. But if it's addiction, it will quickly become unmanageable. And you don't have to look for it, like it. They can't keep it hidden. That's the whole problem. They can't keep it hidden. And so you don't have to spy it out. Now, you may think, well, they hit it for a long time. Maybe they hit it for a long time before you knew it, but once you know it, you know it. And there's no forgetting it. So you don't have to be vigilant like that anymore. It'll come right to you. Don't worry.

That's 100. True. If I were right now to go get a three beer buzz, right? Just get that little. Oh, my wife would walk in and within a millisecond, just by the look in my eyes, she would know I was drinking.

Mm. Yeah. You just have to be able to trust yourself. And if you can't trust yourself, I say trust addiction because I'm telling you, this is the way it works. You know, when I drug screen people at my office, I don't do all this crazy. I don't go through all these hoops to try to make sure they're. I'm like, I'm drug screening you for you. So you can say that to your family. Like, you know, I don't. You may get by one or two. Like, I'm not worried about it. Because if you're using, there'll be about 300 pieces of evidence. Yeah, yeah.

It doesn't. It's not easy to hide, even though we think we're hiding it.

Right. Chloe says, is it fair or helpful to have rules for my partner when they get out of rehab in order for them to live with me, such as drug testing?

I would say 100%. And those are. Those are boundaries you have to set. And it's a family unit you're trying to protect. Protect. I don't see drug testing being a problem, in my opinion, if they agree to it. But if they're asking you to trust them, just like Amber said, if they're going to use, it's going to become evident soon. And just draw that one boundary. You're either in recovery or you're not. And if you're not in recovery, we're not together.

I would say, Chloe, if you're going to do drug testing, do it for yourself and not for them. So if you're going to set up the drug testing, then you can say, I know this might be crazy, but this is what will help me be less freaked out all the time. It'll help me trust you faster and easier. And I really want to do that. Don't set up the drug testing like you're trying to catch them. That's going to keep you in that. I call it the probation officer, parolee kind of dynamic. And it's no good for anyone. And that's you sort of getting on their side of the street. If it's like you need that just for your own calmness, then that's okay. But it has to be for you, not for them.

Yeah. Because in the addict's mind, I hit on it earlier about perspective. When an addict is using, they don't look at the alcohol and drugs as the problem. They project their blame on other things. Like, I'll say, oh, my wife acts like this. That's why I drink. And it's usually because I drink. She acts like that.

Right.

It's backwards in the addict's mind.

Right. And sneak drink. I sneak drink because my wife's crazy and she's overreactive. Right. That's like she's crazy. All reactive. Because you sneak drink. Yeah. Hanging out with us on a Sunday afternoon. And make sure you check out his channel. Tell us when you're. Tell us when they can catch you.

So if you go to YouTube, recovering addict, you search it, you'll see my picture and hit that subscribe button. We are live on Sunday nights at 8, Tuesday nights at 8, and Thursday nights at 8. And I also have a couple zoom meetings and some other community type stuff that. That we get involved in.

And for my people that are watching that are from the family perspective when lt's on, on those nights, Feliz, that's his wife, she's also on too. So it's like a co. They co host it. And so Feliz is always there. You can ask her questions. She's fantastic. I really like her. She's got a good head on shoulders. So definitely check out lt. And Feliz.

Yeah. Thank you very much for having me, Amber.

Thank you.

All right, we'll see you guys. Thank you guys.