Analyzing the Johnny Depp and Amber Heard Audio - (Attachment styles)

So today's video is going to be very, very different from what I usually release. This video is actually going to be some kind of combination between a reaction video and a teachable moment teaching video. What we're going to do is we are going to listen to recordings that were leaked about a year ago of Johnny Depp and Amber Heard argument that occurs between them. And the reason why I really want to examine this with you is because it provides such perfect examples of so many of the things that we talk about on this channel. It shows us perfect examples of attachment style, fair fighting rules, especially of manipulation tactics. Now, before we start the audio, I will tell you this is a little difficult to hear. There are some points in here where it really escalates, pretty uncomfortable level and, and a lot of efforts to prepare yourself. This is definitely not the video you want to listen to when you have kids in the car. Here we go.

And I want to trust you and I hope all the trust is gone. All the fucking trust is gone in the relationship because you keep splitting. We fight together. You're the only one who splits and.

I want that back.

There's no trust. There's nothing.

Then maybe there's nothing to talk about.

Since this argument sort of starts out with this trust factor, I think it's important to look at the context of the situation to take a look at how Amber Heard and Johnny Depp got together in the first place. So they met on the set of a movie and started dating somewhere around 2011 and 2012. At the time he was with a long term partner that he had two children with. But that relationship came to an end. The rumors kind of seemed to say Johnny Depp and Amber Hearst started dating before then. I think she had a relationship that also ended. And officially they were dating in 2012, married in 2015. Now why is all that important for us to know? It's because this relationship was started on a very unsteady foundation. If both of them were in relationships with someone else and they both were sort of cheating and fell in love with each other, then you've got to imagine that this relationship is starting out with so much insecurity. I've actually dealt some with couples whose relationship started like they started seeing each other while they were cheating on someone else. And it seems that these relationships are just plagued with insecurity for reasons that you might imagine.

But I did come over here with enough love in my heart and sincerity. All the things I said, which now I feel like even though you split, didn't come home you know, I still. I still did that. I have showed myself. I've proven myself. I've fought for you. I've showed up.

I'm not gonna be in physical altercation with you.

Then don't.

You hit me last night.

You all the other time.

Come on.

You cannot act like that.

It's about that.

It's playing like cats.

No.

And you hit back. So don't act like you. Don't fucking participate.

Push you.

I'm not going to get into the details of that fight.

You and I both, okay? So let's stop right there. There's an argument about two things happening really, at the same time, right on Amber's side. She's really frustrated because she keeps saying, you always split. You never fight for this relationship, essentially, is what she's saying. And that really is the theme of her side of the story. You're going to hear that throughout this conversation. And his side of the theme you're going to hear is, but you get violent with me. And so you can hear that they start this conversation about, well, you get violent. And then she's like, yeah, but don't act like you don't participate. And he's like, okay, yeah, but it was just that one time when I could get away from you on the airplane. And when he sort of calls her out and sort of backs her into a corner with this piece of information, she shifts the subject to, I'm not going to get into the details with you. Which is a shifting, distraction, manipulation tactic of changing the subject, basically, or saying, hey, we're not going to go down that road because only lead to further fight. Now, I do think that it is okay to not discuss something that you know is going to make things more angry. That's probably a smart move. But honestly, in this situation, it feels more like a deflection tactic. Kind of like, I'm cornered up. You got me. But I'm going to use this to deflect you split when there is no.

Physical violence, and that you do it like at the very beginning of fights these days. And if you split and you go into a different room and you don't actually leave that house, it does nothing but perpetuate the fight.

And so you can hear in this little section, Amber is really frustrated. Like I said, her main frustration is that he always leaves the fight. And you hear her say, and these days, you leave it right at the very beginning. And she's mad about that. What I hear when I hear that is that there's been so many of These that have escalated, that as soon as things start to get tense, he's like, okay, I need to bail. I need to get out of here, because this is going to escalate. And it sounds like sometimes he just tries to leave the room. But even then, she's saying, you're bailing on this conversation.

You don't actually do it respectfully. Don't do it in a way that actually means we won't fight. It always makes more fights. It always makes them longer. It never, ever makes you calmer. You never come out going, I want to talk or I'm okay, or it's going to be okay. And I am 100. I'm sick and tired 100% of being the only one that goes and fights for it. You know what that does? It demoralizes the half of this relationship that is me. It demeans me. Demoralizes me, yes.

Really? Okay, so in this little section, she's saying you never even do it respectfully, and it never makes things calmer anyway. And you never come out and say, okay, let's talk about it. So again, she's frustrated because she wants him to sort of come back into the conversation when there are arguments and bites. But I'm guessing that he probably doesn't do that for a couple reasons. One, because he has a substance abuse problem and he's using substances to numb. Hang on there, we're going to get into more about that. But two, because he. He knows that it is just gonna be a bigger argument because she's so angry. I'm sure that he does avoid coming back and trying to have the conversation because obviously there's a history of escalation and it doesn't end well.

Really? When you split on me, how do you feel when I leave you when.

I go into the other room?

You're saying you leave.

How?

You get another room, you get a flight, things like that. And you asked me not to in Australia.

And ever since.

No. How many? How many? How many?

I don't know.

I have to count them up.

No, because I haven't left you house maybe twice last. Last night.

No, you've done before. I've come here before. I'm not doing that anymore.

Yeah, you've come here before last time and another time.

And then last time you've done this several times. And. And getting me a room. I mean, getting another room in a hotel, just the same thing.

When did I get another room?

You text Stephen or. Or Nathan in Toronto to get you another room.

It's chronic it happens all the time.

And if you do it to go into another room, you do it and you get dressed.

You were screaming.

I'm not going to validate my actions last night. I feel very bad.

No, I'm talking in Toronto.

I did not start screaming until you had said all this. You poke an animal enough, it is eventually. Doesn't matter how friendly it is, it's not true.

Well, it's the same for me.

It's the same kicked and kicked. I have not done this to you. I have not said these things. I have not started.

Okay, so while you listen to this recording, it's pretty hard not to see Amber heard as the attacker here. But I do want to point that we don't have all of the context you see here. She's saying if you poke a beast too many times, they're going to lose it. So we don't know what happened exactly in the argument the night before. You can kind of gather from this recording that whatever happened, it escalated. He tried to leave, she's mad and that she gets physically violent. But you don't know what prompted the argument to begin with. I'm not saying it doesn't matter what he said. It doesn't warrant getting violent or super mean and aggressive. I get that. But just keep in mind that context is always important and we don't know the whole story.

I'm going to get in another room and I'm not going to sit here and fight about Toronto anymore. Guess what? I let it go. I'm not about. I'm not talking about Toronto.

Send me the tapes.

I can whisper it, I can write it. Guess what? I'm not saying another word about Toronto. I'm so sick and tired of fighting about old fights. This is not about a fight. This is br. This is a broad thing.

Well now that's one insightful thing that gets said in this argument. I'm sick and tired of fighting about old fights. This fight is only about other fights. So they're fighting about who's who fights wrong. Like who does the wrong thing during the fight.

And if I'm telling you every single time you get dressed and you split the top of a fight, you never try and work it out, never fight for me. You never come to me. You never self calm, you never self suit. You're never the one to throw the olive branch. I'm sick and tired of it. It needs to change and you can go. I can't meet those demands. I can't do it. Or you can promise me so I have a modicum of safety. I feel modicum of respect. A little tiny shit sliver of like you are in this. Whether it is good or bad. Down and up, lows and highs. Tough and easy. Not just when it's easy. I feel like you're a vacation husband. You so there when it's good. You're so there when it's easy. Second, it gets hard. Question it. Last night, I'm just as guilty, I give you that. But I have been primed and conditioned. At this point, I couldn't. I thought I'd never get over Toronto.

It hurts, okay? So to me, when I. The whole. If I just listen and sum up this whole recording and one lesson or thing to learn or take away from this is the thing that I hear is what screams at me is that there is an insecure attachment style happening here with Amber Heard. Now, it's really hard not to say. Obviously I can't say because this is one recording. But these are things that you would probably hear and see in arguments when you are dealing with someone who has an insecure attachment style. Because there's this fear of losing the relationship. Sometimes if you have this attachment style, you're so scared of losing your relationship that you can squeeze it too hard. Sometimes you try to pull away or push a person away, but you really don't want them to go away. You're really trying to get them to come chase you. And what I hear from this is, I want you to fight for me, Johnny. And she's provoking him, which truly is just pushing him away. When what she wants more than anything, obviously is for him to come closer. Obviously the way she's going about this is pretty ineffective and toxic. But I need for you to also keep in mind that there's. During this whole time, Johnny Depp has a pretty major substance abuse problem. In fact, there's a part in this recording where you're going to hear it and eventually where she goes and gets him a Xanax and brings it back and then something else too, I think. So clearly he. If he's taking a bunch of Xanax and these sleeping pills and these other things, he is somewhat disconnected and distant. And so that's probably continuing to trigger her attachment style. She's coming at him aggressively, which is then pushing him further away. So bad.

I got over so bad. And I did not do anything like that. I didn't soup that level at all.

Got the tapes? Let me hear.

Absolutely. I wish. I wish it had caught everything. Everything too.

Why don't you send me the. Send me the recordings?

I don't know how else to say I will. Hasn't really been a kind of safe environment now, has it?

So if I'm.

Look a fire. Yeah, okay.

I haven't.

Because we have not been well, we have not been good. When I move out, if I move out, then you.

I'll have.

You'll have them and you can relish them. You won't like it, what you hear.

So when I hear this, it's like, well, he's like, well, just send me the tapes. And she's sort of setting it up. Well, not everything's on there. I wish it was. And then it's like, well, I couldn't give them to you because we're not doing well these days. And there's just all these excuses and reasons where she's sort of diverting the fact where he's sort of pinning her in on either like, I want this or this happened or that happened. And you can see when they have this scramble or this tap dance to confuse the situation, to redirect the conversation, to somehow throw it back on him.

Won't make you happy. But you'll hear what I'm telling you. We haven't really been good. It hasn't really been a safe environment now, has it? You act like you're fucking on something when I haven't sent you this, like, well, send them to me. Get this. It hasn't been good. It's been a little tough. Wasn't before Rio, was it tough?

I mean, it was only in the sense that you tried to keep me, you know, it's been really tough. Why did you come to Rio?

All I've been trying to do is be with you, spend time with you. You said you needed that. You said that it made a difference and I wasn't working. You wanted me to travel with you.

That was the time you're looking for apartments.

That was after Toronto.

Yeah, that's when we came back here.

I know where we were.

Toronto, Boston, here.

I know where we were.

We've been on the road basically, basically since Australia, and I have been at your side and I have not been familiar with it.

We were on our honeymoon. I hope you were my side.

I'm not talking about just a honeymoon now, am I? I'm talking about many months. And was it all the honeymoon? No. I have been at your side throughout it all. Just like, why did you come to Rio? And I answered, I would love for it to be better. I have no consistency no safety, no security. The relationship is something. Me is something you don't fight for, don't stand up for. You always run from when it's tough. I. I'm telling you, I need more. I need. We didn't say vows. You didn't make them exactly in the same. In that, in that way, but now is a fucking time. I need to know if you're gonna be there. I want promises. I told you that at the beginning of this conversation. I need promises you're gonna fucking be there. Any promises that this is important to you. Not when it's easy. When it's hard too. This is something you'll fight for.

Dude. What's happening right here is there's sort of this double edged, sort of. I need you to say that you're in this no matter what. Essentially. It' matter what. Even if it's violent, even if I'm aggressive, even if it's toxic. And so it's this. I'm only getting this wound up because you're not in it. But my guess is, I mean, he doesn't say this, but my guess is is that part of the reason why he's not fully in it is because it's so toxic. So it's. It's like this feedback loop where one thing keeps pinging on the other thing back and forth, back and forth.

This is something that's sacred, that neither of us throw out every fight. I can't be the only one to hold the promises. I was in Toronto. It fucked me over. I can't be the only one. You can't be the only one. If I split on you, all those times that I thought about doing, it would not be here. And I stayed. And it's tougher, you know, that's stronger. I'm stronger. It is easy to run. It is easy to run away from problems. It is easy to take that out and say, but that's the easiest. I mean, that's the best state, that that's the safest way out. I'm not saying we should get in physical altercation, I never want to be in. But every time you don't like what I say and you fucking run away will never work out anything. You can't run away every fight. You can't. It's easy, it's not brave, it's not strong. It's harder to say to somebody, I want to work this out. I want to face what I have. I want to face what you have. I want to work it out with you. You're not Working it out. You're running away. And then you make me be a bigger person every single time and come to you and knock on the door and come to this house and say, hey, we're married. It's supposed to be sacred.

Calm down.

Calm down.

I made you.

Yes, by default. If you're never the one to do it, one of us is. And I'm the one to do it. Every time, it means I'm the bigger person. Every time, it means I have to be the strong one. It means every time I have to fight for our relationship. And you get to be not. You get to be lazy. You get to be cowardly.

I don't know what are you here for? What do you need me?

Once again, I am fighting for the relationship with a guy that you don't.

Fucking trust or like.

Why I did not said, I love you. You're my favorite person in the world. I don't see how I remember what I said at the beginning. I'm sorry you feel like you can't imagine it, but I said this to you at the beginning of this conversation. I said, you're my favorite person in the whole world. If you weren't the most magnetic, shiny, beautiful, interesting, dynamic person I had ever met in my life, it would be so easy to walk away from this bratty thing that you do.

Trustworthy.

Did you hear what I just said? I said I can't trust. I can't trust. That's not meaning you're untrustworthy. It means we've created a situation, and I'm telling you what you do to create, too. We've created a situation in which there. There cannot trust, can't grow. It's like it's trampled every single time. And we need a marriage. That's why I sat down. Do you not remember me sitting down at the very beginning of this conversation saying just that to you? Say, I know you got married for security and for safety. So did I. We did not get married because it was something that we're doing, you know, for. Because it was something we could walk away. We wanted to stay a foundation. No, I want.

Yes. I wanted to make you my wife.

Yes.

Yes.

But you could just have me as your girlfriend if you didn't want the foundation. And you told me, and maybe you go back on it now. Fine, okay, cool. Lie about that.

I don't know.

You told me you wanted a foundation. You told me you wanted the security, you wanted the safety. You liked the foundation. At the beginning you said, I really like having that it feels safe. So don't argue with me when I say it now.

I'm not arguing with you.

Oh, yeah.

By saying, because I loved you and you're my wife, I wanted you to be my wife. That's picking the bar.

No.

How did that fix it apart?

See, this, to me, is a great example of gaslighting. And you're going to hear, as this argument goes on, it's, she's sort of deflecting the conversation. Every time he has a point, she pulls out a word or she picks out this phrase and she starts to sort of go down that rabbit hole, and that then deflects from the main point that's being made. Now, I'm trying to be really fair and be both sides on this, but I will say clearly, this woman is sending messages very strongly that I just want you to say you love me and you're in this. And he's not saying that. Right. He's saying everything but that. So she's escalating. Escalating, which is out of bounds. But he's definitely not bringing anything in. He's just being sort of very passive and letting her wind herself up into the bad guy role.

I want to fight about a fight. I want to fight about semantics.

When I come up with a point, you can't answer it. You don't want. Or suddenly you don't want to answer it.

What am I not answering? Because I don't want to fight about this new thing?

No, I don't want to.

I said you wanted the safety and security, and you stopped me. You interrupted me, and then you said. What, because I. No, because I wanted to have you as my.

I didn't interrupt you. You asked me. Right. You said. Right.

I meant.

You interjected.

I meant.

You said.

You said.

How about that? See, now, is this better?

I answered you.

I addressed what you're saying now. Can we please not fight about that?

And I said because I love.

You said loved.

We're talking about a event that's past tense. If I used love, my apologies. It doesn't mean you don't love me.

My whole point that you had, I don't know, an issue with is that you love me. Yes. You marry me, though, because you wanted some safety, some security, some stability of foundation.

So even though there was this sort of picking, this little nitpicking, this further argument about love or love, when he goes back and clarifies that and say, okay, whether or not I said love or love, it doesn't mean I don't love you. Now I'm just saying I loved you then. That's why we got married. And you can see that even just him saying that, her tone drops down pretty considerably now. It's not going to stay down, but you can see when he's telling her a little bit of that, she is de escalating.

If you take issue with that. Okay, but if you agree, then you agree that's who you were when you married me.

Yes, but the only thing that's missing is with you. I wanted those things with you. Yes, and that's what I was trying to say. And I wanted to marry you for that. For our love, for the security, for the foundation, for. Yes, of course. But you left. For you.

I'm sorry, I didn't. I mean, with you. Of course with you. I mean that.

Of course.

Of course I do. Of course I want that with you. It's why I married you. But I need the safety, I need the security, I need the boundaries. And I thank you. Could you not agree?

Look how much more vulnerable she's coming at this conversation when he is expressing some kind of love and care and concern. So you can clearly see that this is really what she wants. She just wants him to say it. She just wants to feel that he's in the relationship. Now, if you're listening to this, you may have experienced this yourself. I think we've all experienced this ourselves. You know, we feel someone pulling away. We want to fight for the relationship, but when that. That happens, when you go at them, it's only going to push them further and further away. And so it's just her strategy for trying to get him to fight is not the best strategy, obviously.

So when you start flipping out and I can't get a word in and it's, you know, manic and angry. What the. Amber?

I get angry.

I get. I'm human. This is the kind of situation where one gets angry. Anger.

Okay, but you can't provoke anger in me. Then just try control.

Okay? So you can see the situation was de Escalating. She was calming down. You could feel that they were both sort of bringing it down, connecting a little bit. And then he's like, but you can't get angry. So then he brings back in the fight. So he. Now. Now he's not being angry, aggressive about it, but he's reintroducing the fight. And immediately you can hear that tone start to go back up. So here we go again.

Just try. Let's both try. There's anger. There's something fucking really, really Fucking poking us in the ass. Try, Try not to fucking fight. Try to address it without jumping down each other's throats. Because all that's gonna do is build a mountain of fucking some species of fucking hatred within the love. And.

And now right here, I'd like to inject just a little piece of my own personal advice. You know, a lot of people say things like, don't go to bed angry. Well, I completely disagree with that. My saying is always go to bed angry. Because all that's going to happen if you try to discuss something when you're angry or upset is you're just going to say a bunch of mean things that you're going to regret. And your thinking brain isn't even functioning good enough at that point to really either get your point across or to hear the other person's point of view. So it is a bad idea to discuss things when you're angry. Now, I know some of us feel like, okay, there's a problem out there and I really want to solve it right now, but I'm telling you, it is a bad idea. Now, on the other end of that, there are some people that just want to avoid having any kind of difficult conversation no matter what, and they want to sort of run away from the conversation. I'm not really saying do that. I'm just saying don't discuss it in the heat of the moment. So a good thing to do when things are escalating is to say something. You know what, this is really important topic. Definitely needs to be discussed. I need to get my thoughts together about that. Let's talk about it tomorrow after dinner or something like that. You can sort of set a time to talk about it, which gets sort of both needs met. It gives you some time to get away and process and think. And also doesn't just leave the problem.

Out there hanging, totally mistrust. Because you say you don't trust me, you don't trust me. I get it, okay? I'm flake. I'm with this, I'm with that.

I didn't say as a person. I. I don't trust the marriage. I don't trust you. I don't feel safe with it because you always can bail on it.

Well, then I. I don't know.

You know, I want the trust back.

I don't.

You can deflect all you want. Say it's my fault. Say, how dare I get angry at you ever, Whatever I'm telling you.

So there's something, you know, really important here. And he, she, she's saying, I'm telling you, like, I need you to fight. And he's saying, no, I'm telling you I need you to not be so escalated. But she's going to defend her being escalated instead of just saying, you know what? I get it gets too out of control. We can do better. She's going to continue to defend her esc. Pretty much saying, like, my feeling, I'm trying to fight for us. She's sort of justifying that behavior. And because it's my feeling, I can't help it. It's who I am. Too bad. And it really. What it means. It's actually a good thing about me because it means I'm the one fighting for us.

Because you don't like that shit in your marriage. I don't like guff that you. That you put on me in our marriage. And if it causes distrust in me, it causes distress in me. Yeah. And I don't know.

I don't know what.

Sometimes I don't. I don't want to be there and go through the. I don't, man. I don't want to because I don't want to fight.

It doesn't have to be one. It's not like I'm saying, hey, choose, fight.

You just said, I get mad, I'm gonna scream.

You can see right there, he sort of got her cornered up again. And now we start seeing the little tap dance of getting out of it. Now, just before that, you heard some truth, right? He's saying, you know what? Sometimes when these things happen, I don't trust you. And sometimes I do want to just run away from this thing. And that was honesty and truth. And even though that's not what she wants to hear, she. You can tell, at least initially, she hears that in some kind of calmness because she knows that there's truth in that.

Always the case. Yeah, I'm mad. It happens.

Yes, I know it happens.

Often that are wrong are repeating themselves, and they happen often. If you think I'm some fucking tyrant or bully, but don't fucking be with me, but don't sit here and insult me like I move the fuck up because I have the opportunity saying that.

I'm the tyrant and the bully and the. And at the same time, the guy.

That runs away and are you run away every single.

Okay, so, I mean, what are you.

That I'm not lying about it.

And what are you doing with me?

I already answered that. I already said. We went through this conversation literally five minutes ago. I answered this already five Minutes ago.

You just said to me that I shouldn't be with you.

No, I said if you. No, I said if I'm some, you know, harping bully, which is what you make me sound like. Like I'm, like, constantly on you, making you feel bad. That's because that's what I do. And then you ignore everything. You take me for granted. You're ignoring everything that I do for you. You make me sound terrible. You talk about me in a terrible way.

You. You.

You do not fight for me, and then you want to sit here and make me sound so terrible to be around. You don't.

Everything.

I've already explained. No 10 minutes.

No fight for you. I don't understand.

You never, ever do the work, put in the work. If we're arguing about something, you don't ever try to get to the bottom of it, figure out, make you want to make it easy on you.

So you split.

Okay, so right here we have some definite what in counseling we would call cognitive distortion. First thing that I hear that stands out to me is she's saying never ever. Well, first of all, anytime you're saying always or never, you probably aren't being exactly accurate. And so not only is that sort of an out of bounds thing to do, because I'm sure it's not. He always does that. Maybe he does that frequently or regularly, but probably not always. So not only is it an unfair thing to put on the other person, but also when you're saying that, especially when you're saying that out loud, you're reinforcing it to yourself, thereby only making yourself more and more frustrated and angry. And not only is she saying you never do this, escalating herself, but then she's doing another cognitive problem called, we call that mind reading. It's because you just want the easy road, right? So not only am I saying, you always do this, but I know why you always do this. And here's why. Both of those are pretty unhealthy ways of thinking that are just going to keep you yourself escalated and frustrated.

Fight for me. You don't fight when there's a problem. You don't come to me. You don't make peace with me. You never extend an olive branch. You're never the bigger guy. You're never the one that's like, okay, I'm gonna put my own feelings aside for a second and say, this is bigger than us. Let's stop fighting. You never are the one to come and knock on my door. You take me for granted.

It's not true. Not true. I'm not the one who throws pots. And me.

That's different. Different. Okay, when she's like, you never did this, you never did that. And he said, that's not true, she actually stopped talking. Did you hear that little pause there? You know what I think right there in that moment, she thought she was. She thought maybe he's gonna say something about his affection for me, his feeling for me. And she kind of waited for it, but it didn't come. What came is, but you throw pots and pans. So yes, she's very aggressive. And every time he says something that kind of gets her de escalated, it's almost like then he sort of throws in another little wrench. But you keep doing this. So it's like. And now she's gonna escalate back up. That's.

One does not negate the other. That's irrelevant. It's a complete non sequitur. Just because I've thrown pots and pans does not mean that you come and.

Knock on the door.

Just because there are vases does not mean that you come and knock on the door.

Really? I should just let you throw.

I'm not saying that. You're saying that. You're putting words in my mouth and then making non sequiturs, giving you a situation.

So she's saying, just because I do this doesn't mean you shouldn't come back after the fight and say, let's make up. Basically, that's what she's saying. And he's saying, so you think even though you do this, I should do that? And she's like, no, that's not what I'm saying. That is exactly what she just said. So again, we get into this round and round and round of sort of. I want you to stop and think for a second. If these roles were reversed and the man in the relationship had been really aggressive, thrown things, hit, done all of these things, and then he was saying, you know, but that makes you cowardly to leave. You don't fight for this relationship. I want you to think about, if it was the man saying what she saying to the woman, the whole picture would look different, wouldn't it? Can you imagine? It's like, you know, I can't believe you left. You're so weak. You should stand there when I'm throwing things at you. You know, women have this idea. Some women have an idea in our head that, like, it's okay for them to do that because they're upset. And it's kind of like well, I'm not really going to hurt you anyway, but it's unfair. It's particularly unfair for men because, yes, it can. They can get hurt, too, but they don't have any ability to sort of protect themselves back. So, like, let's say if it was reversed and it was a guy who had a girl and she hit him back, right? You would say, heck, yeah, she hit him back. You needed, or whatever. But if a girl hits a guy and then he hits her back, that's a whole different story. So when a guy's in a physically abusive situation, it's just really a precarious situation because he definitely can't defend himself in that situation. So really the best thing to do is to leave the situation because when someone's that upset that they're throwing things, being aggressive, they're not going to be reasonable. And I think a lot of men are afraid if I don't get out of here, I am going to react to her and I'm going to do something that I regret.

No, you're trying to justify how you don't or do come to the door based on whether you're justifying.

I'm justifying how you. You seem to think that there's this cowardice in me that runs away and I don't fight for you, and you're.

Justifying that by saying I throw pots and pans. Okay, cool. Let's talk about everything you do, Rob.

I'm not the one who fucking did that. I don't fucking. I didn't.

So that makes. So that makes sense.

So that I.

That's clear. Yeah.

Do I do. The only time I ever threw anything at you was when you fucking threw the cans at me in Australia.

Why are you trying to justify who. Who throws things based on whether or not you come knocking on the door?

Because that is a irrational and violent maneuver. So a man would want to get out of that area so that he doesn't get so angry that he actually does pop the wife.

How does one inform the other?

Oh, man. Go home and listen to the tape, please. That's what they're for.

Yes.

You listen to the talking to.

Oh, I'm gonna.

So will I. I'm not here to.

Sit here and promise you I'll never get mad. You'll never up. I know you want to live in a land in a world where everyone just says yes to you and doesn't question you or criticize you ever.

Don't insult me like that, please.

But that's not the case. That's not why you're with me. I am honest with you.

I'm sorry.

You don't want to be held accountable.

I get it. It.

I'm not sure you're so honest with me.

That's your.

Watching you live in front of Travis last night.

That's your problem, and that's your whole thing that you created.

That's my problem. But my problem is that you don't trust me. What the is going on in there, man?

I don't trust you.

Don't trust me in our marriage.

Can you not just feel that this couple is so used to arguing, like, they don't even know what to say or what to do when they're not arguing. And if the argument starts to deflate a little bit, one of them says something that ignites it back up. And the big thing that you're hearing here is neither person will concede anything to the other person. She won't concede at all that she's aggressive and violent and coming on too strong, and that's what's running him on. And he won't concede at all that he is disengaging from the relationship and not sort of coming towards her and nurturing the relationship in the way she wants. And I'm sure that they're both right in some degree, but neither one will concede anything. They're both just so focused on getting the other, trying to force the other person to see their point of view. Now, if you are in a situation like this. We've all been in a situation like this. You want to feel heard. There are ways to get yourself heard that are so much more effective. In fact, I have a video about it. I'll put it right up here in the cards so you can watch it if you want to, but definitely listen to the rest of this one and then go back and listen to that one. It'll give you a much better way to go about having conversations like this.

Well, what is everything. We're talking about our marriage, Tommy, if.

You want to stop talking.

You're saying you don't trust me personally or you don't trust me in the marriage. What I don't understand, which is what's so different? Tell me the difference, please. No, I think you could probably explain it to me a little better. I'm slow.

You like keeping that?

Do I want to keep being an.

Stop the attitude question. Stop the attitude.

I should sound the attitude. Okay, sure.

No problem.

I'm not gonna sit here and go over every fight we've Had. I'm not gonna refight this fight. You have something you're holding on to about Travis.

Go. Go.

You know, go do it. Go run away together. I don't know what you're holding on to, but you have created that. I have no part of that. I don't know what you're latched on to in your brain with stray hairs have co. Mingled and tangled in your brain to make you think you've really figured some sort of thing out. But this is not. Not unusual for you. It's like almost every fight. I can pretty much guarantee you find something that you can like.

Let's ask Travis tonight.

Yes. Why don't we invite Travis into our. Into our up broken ass three wheeled truck of a marriage. Why don't we crash it straight into the wall? Because no one knows us better than Travis.

You're just afraid that the truth will come out.

What truth?

Truth?

What are you talking about? I didn't even have a. A thing to lie about. What are you talking about? Every fight, there's a new thing that you've convinced yourself.

I said to you, amber, tell Travis what you just did. Did you just. Did you punch me in the jaw? Did you? Did you? Did you. And you wouldn't say, I don't know what you're talking about. Never.

I see.

Never happened.

I see the lie.

You really should run with this. In fact, maybe you and try to Travis can like go and like, you know, do a tell all about what a. You don't investigate the attitude.

Right. Stop with the attitude.

Sorry.

You're getting all bunched up.

Sorry. I don't.

It's so pointless.

And you know what to say here and fight about whatever you think happened with.

Try this.

What's my conversation.

I was not high.

I'm not going.

You lied. You're.

You're full of. What lie? When. What conversation did I have with Travis? A big, big investigative study you've done. I'm not sitting here fighting situation. The fight that we had last night.

Got physically violent with me. I texted Traps. I said, come up here because I didn't want anything to happen.

I mean.

Yeah, it's coming. Well, save me.

No, go ahead.

Continue. You. You. Travis to the rescue.

That was the last one. You can go. You go. That was the last insult.

You called me a liar and yeah, yeah, yeah. I watched July called me a liar.

I watched you lie.

I heard it.

I was right there.

There's no what. You still haven't told me what lie it is. But yet every single Time. You know, you do this every single.

We'll talk to ch.

I'm not talking to nobody. That you go jerk. Go jerk him off.

I don't care.

I really could care less.

It's you.

Every single time. You latch on to some sort of thing when I already told you I don't know what you're talking about. You don't even know what you're talking about. You still haven't even told me what it is. But run with it.

I have told you what it is.

No, you haven't.

I said to Travis, I said, no. I said to you, hey, tell Travis what just happened.

You told me to. He said, go do that.

Tell him what just happened.

Why?

And that you punched me in the thing and you're in the face and you said, no, I didn't. What the are you talking about? And I watched you lie. And then I didn't punch you, by the way.

You. I'm sorry that I didn't. Across the face in a proper slap. But I was hitting you. It was not punching you, Babe, you're not punched.

Don't tell me what it feels like to be punched.

You say we get into this semantics here. This is some more gaslighting. I didn't punch you. I just hit you. Right? And it's just back and forth, and it's almost like she's sort of attacking his manhood by. It's almost like, oh, my gosh, you're being such a baby. I didn't punch you. I hit you. So you've got sort of an attack on his character combined with some gaslighting.

No. When you have a closed fist.

I'm sorry I hit you like this, but I did not punch you. I did not deck you. I was hitting you. I don't know what the motion of my actual hand was, but you're fine. I did not hurt you and not punch you. I was hitting you.

How are your toes?

What am I supposed to do?

Do this?

Sitting here bitching about it, am I? You are. That's the difference between me and you. You're a baby.

Because you start physical fights. Because you start physical fights.

I did start a physical.

Yeah, you did. So I had to get the out of there.

Yes, you did. So you did the right thing. The big things. You know what? You are admirable every single time.

What? What?

What's your excuse when there's not a physical fight?

And what's the excuse?

That you're still being admirable?

Right? Just like now. Obviously, we don't know, you know, they're fighting about these fights, and we don't know what prompted the other fights. We kind of have some idea about what happened during the fights, but not what prompted them. And I will say this, and I've got videos, entire videos on this, that people with addictions will start a fight in order to be able to get really mad and feel justified and leave and go use. Now, we don't know that that's what's happening here, but I just want to put that out there that probably if he wanted to leave and go use, he would know exactly what to say to provoke her in to being so angry that he could then justify the leaving. Like I said, we don't know that's happening, but it definitely happens. When you're dealing with people with an addiction problem, you can say her and.

Call me names, but you get called a name and what do you do? That's the last insult. You're a baby. You're a hypocrite. You don't do anything that you actually do. You expect from people what you can't give them. If they do something, a taste of it to you, you fucking lose it. But yet you dish it out.

What are you doing with this?

Giving you a Xanax in case you need it.

Oh, thank you. Yeah, it probably has.

Not so that it can be. I haven't even been able to have like a fight with you beyond in any real talking, kind of speaking context in so long. Because anytime anything goes wrong, you split like it's your first unnecessary, necessary. It's not always you're splitting because there's clothes or because there's yelling or anything. You split many. Most times when I'm still speaking this volume and nothing has been thrown or hit or anything.

Okay. So that little clip you just heard might be the most shocking thing that I've heard so far. Is like, when I was listening to this recording to begin with, you know, I'm listening to it, I'm kind of analyzing this fight. I can kind of see what's going on both sides, back and forth. And then in the middle of this fight, you hear this pill bottle rattle. And he's like, what are you doing with those? And she's like, oh, I'm. I'm bringing you a Xanax because probably your Xanax is worn off. He's like, oh, thank you. It's like you. You see all of a sudden this like, kind, nurturing type moment here where she goes and gets the pill bottle and feeds him A pill. Now that is pretty, I don't know, mind blowing to me in some ways. But in other ways, I feel like it's. It's almost like her way of trying. It's a desperation of trying to pull him in or bring him back because you can see kind of softened up when she did that. I was like, I'm gonna give you this drug and we're gonna be nice for, you know, about 30 seconds here now I think we're gonna end there. As far as the recording part, I feel almost guilty. Listen to this. Do you guys feel that way too? We actually listened to almost 30 minutes of the recording, but there's actually the whole recording is like two hours long. I will put the link in the description in case you want to check out the whole video. But I just wanted to listen to this with you because there's so many of the things that you're seeing right here, like real life examples of that we talk about on this channel. It's such a great illustration. Even though I feel a little bit guilty. It's almost like you're prying into something was private life. But I don't know how these videos got leaked. My guess is one or the other of them leaked them to try to show their side of the story in this whole big messy door situation. But who knows? And ultimately I'm not taking one side over the other. This is a toxic relationship. And my guess is both sides here did a lot of toxic things to the other. Now, as I mentioned earlier, up next for you, I think the perfect video to follow this one up with is how to get yourself heard. There are better ways to go about this. There are healthier ways to communicate and stop these arguments that just go round and round and round and get nowhere.