Before You Make Decisions About Addiction Treatment, WATCH THIS FIRST!

You guys are in for a special treat today because we have our family recovery specialist with us, Campbell Manning. And Campbell came to me last week and said, I have a video idea. I got excited because Campbell and Kim, they don't necessarily love to be on the video. So I was like, you're gonna be on the video. So y' all are really lucky, more than you even know. So we have Campbell with us. She has a video idea. I'm gonna let her introduce it, and we're gonna, we're gonna going to talk about her list of things.

Okay. So this sort of came to me last week when I was talking to a couple in the west, and they had sent their child to treatment, but it was really going very poorly. They had picked a place that wasn't delivering. They had made a bunch of deals with the kid, and it was all unraveling and they were having to bring her home. And I was like, I sure wish you guys had called us before you had done any of that. So it sort of came to me like, when do you not send your child to treatment? So that sort of was my idea of when do you not do it? Because there's definitely times when you don't do it right.

And it's a big expense and it's a big time investment, and you want to be sure and you want it to be the right circumstance condition, the right place. You want to make an educated decision about it. And when Campbell says treatment, what you're talking about is like, you're talking about like longer term treatment, like three, six, nine months. Is that right?

Yeah, I'm talking about longer term, either sober living or maybe 30 days followed by sober living, like what I call the big gun, to get us to where we really want to go, not right dabbling.

And I find that families just automatically feel like that's what has to happen. They automatically feel like if a person has a. Any kind of addiction problem, they need to go to like 90 days treatment, six months of treatment. But that's not necessarily the case. But, but it's an immediate assumption. Almost.

Well, I think there's a. There's a big part of it is like, if you're working alone or you really don't understand addiction. Like, I remember initially thinking that detox would do it, like, that we were done in seven days and everything would go back to normal. And then I thought, well, 30 days would do it. And it really takes some education and some knowledge about the disease to understand the time that it's going to take. And why long term sober living is usually needed to hit the home run.

Right.

So I think they're just misunderstanding. I also think a lot of people don't think the problem is real, that that just detox will fix it. Because it's not a real problem. It's not an addiction. It's just he has bad friends or something's going on and they're going to.

Get a detox and they're going to talk some sense into them and then we're going to be good.

They're just going to change their friends and put some rules down and everything will be good. Right. So I think part of it is just from a parenting standpoint is just to make sure you're not working alone, that you have a counselor or somebody who really gets it so that you get that guidance, so that when you do pull the plug and send your child, you're sending them to the right place with the right understanding and the right everything behind the scenes set up.

Right. So Campbell is made up a list. I think she had nine things, which is an odd number, but that's Campbell for you. She's got us a list of nine things. And her list is specifically for family members. Make sure you stay tuned for the whole thing because I'm also going to give some information in case you're watching this for yourself and you want to know about making decisions about treatment. We're going to give alternatives, some just general advice about other kinds of help and care other than like big long term treatment. Because the more you understand about this, the more strategically you can make this choice and the better your chances and results are going to be. It's too much time and money and energy. Blindly throw darts at the wall. You really need to know what you're getting into.

And I think that's a really good point, Amber, because as you go through the process, the darts, you have darts in your quiver that you don't know are there or you didn't. You don't know how to throw them. So I think it's really important that you get the big, this is what's going to happen all the way through and be prepared. Like, you know, once I get someone to treatment, then I tell them, okay, these are probably the 30 sentences you're going to hear that don't bring them back out so that we. And they're like, oh, I wouldn't have thought of that. So the first one we talked about, which is don't work alone or be sure you have serious understanding of what addiction treatment and recovery entails and requires. So that's the first one. Just like if you don't think you have a for real problem, that you don't think it's addiction or your kid is not ready, then also don't do it.

Okay.

There. They have to have some level of unmanageability for them to shift. Otherwise they may go and box check it, but they won't really do the work because their life didn't. It doesn't, it's not bad enough problem yet.

So what you mean by that is kind of like let's say you just caught your kid, you found some paraphernalia or some drugs or something and you just caught them with that. And then you're like, oh, you know, I need to head this off at the pass and get it before it gets bad. You know, I'm going to go ahead and send them a treatment now and then we won't have the problem because you can jump too soon.

You can jump too soon. And a lot of people want to jump too soon just because they don't want the problem to be there. I mean, we get 20 calls a week about, they want to come in to hope for families because their kid is vaping. And we're like, no, you're not ready for us. So if, yes, if you just found some paraphernalia, we don't need to go to long term sober living.

Right. You need to be sure you're dealing with addiction because you're going to be sending them in to get full addiction treatment. And a couple of things happen is if, if you don't believe that it's addiction, you're going to be worried that they're going to be. People that have these more serious addictions are going to be worried they're going to get worse. And secondly, they're going to be listening to other people's stories and thinking to themselves, I didn't do that. This doesn't apply to me. Like what? Like I just did this, you know, so it won't be, it won't take.

Right? Yeah, yeah, that's a good point. I think also a big thing is if your own shame won't allow you to tolerate the, the concept of addiction as it applies to your child or loved one, then you need to do that work behind the scenes, because I get it. But if you, if you can't tolerate that, then you're not going to be able to go the long run. You're going to pull out too quickly.

Okay? So you have to be, you have to be. Okay. You have to sort of come to terms with what's really happening here. Okay.

Which leads us to a biggie, which is you have to be alignment with other people who are making the decision, I. E. A spouse. Have to be in alignment.

I wish we could capitalize you verbally saying that. Right. One more time. Explain that to us.

I just talked to so many people and, and went through it myself where one parent just doesn't believe that it's an addiction. They just think it's a boys will be boys or it's a phase. And those are the people who are either not doing anything about it at all because we're going crazy or they're trying to do what, what I would call like the geographic cure. Like change friends, change schools, change jobs for the kid. And, and if that's the case, you have to let that play out for your spouse to be in a. Because again, like Amber said, this is a lot of money. It's a lot of emotional time, everything. And if you're not in alignment, you're wasting it. Because someone is going to say, when I'm not doing this anymore, let's bring him home.

Right? Because somebody's gonna. Somebody's gonna be like the weak point, right. And then the person, the addiction is gonna like keep pushing on that weak point until it caves. Yeah, yeah, that's a. I don't know.

That I would use weak point, although that is it. It's just that they're not understanding point.

Right. Where you're not in alignment. Right. So it's like. Yeah, yeah.

And the next one is big. It's if you think that either detox or just a simple 30 day residential treatment is going to solve this problem, don't send them. I have never seen anyone go to 30 days and come home and stay sober.

Right. Without. And Campbell's talking mostly about young people when you. Right. We have seen adults do that and they can go away in 30 days and come back if they have a really sol. Solid aftercare plan that has some really good accountability attached to it, that can work. But young people, sending them away for a week or a month and then bringing them right back into your house never works. Never works, never works.

So you just sort of went into the next one, which is if you don't have a follow up plan and understand why you need a follow up plan and what the purpose of the follow up plan is, don't send them. Also and this, Amber brought this up while we were talking earlier is if you're going to send someone. Do not make deals with them about, if you just go for 30 days, then you can come home. Just try it. If you don't like it, we'll come and get you. You can come home after six months. Don't make deals. I always say, you know what, we're just going to leave that to the treatment team because you're gonna make a deal that you're not gonna want to honor. And I don't know what it is, but parents think they have to honor everything they say to their children. My poor children, I back up all the time, like, well, change my mind. But most people won't. So if they tell their child, just try it for three or four days and if you don't care for it, we'll come and get you. And then they, they go get them. And so now we have to play the whole tape back out and get it to an even worse point before we can start the process over again. And every time we do that, the kid says, you know, this is ridiculous.

And you're out a lot of money.

You're out a lot of money.

And you know, I've seen it. Do other parents make other deals? Like, okay, if you go and you get out, I'll buy you a car or I'll pay for you to have an apartment or something like that.

Well, I'll send you to college.

And what's going to happen is they're going to get in there and then the treatment people are going to be talking to you and they're going to be making recommendations. You're going to be like, oh, but I already told them this. And they're going to say, well, that's a major mistake. So you want to leave yourself the choice to make game time decision. That's what I always say.

That's a really good point because you don't know. I remember when we sent our first son to 30 days and again I thought in 30 days he'll come home and he'll be back in his little brown and blue room and he'll be playing lacrosse and this will all be behind us. And then two weeks in, I got the call from Ridgeview saying, hey, this kid needs a whole lot more. As in six to 12 months more. And I was so ill prepared. But luckily I was so mad at him when we took him to treatment that I hadn't made any deals. But that was luck, you guys. Pure t luck. So I could have said, well, I already told him to come back.

But if you let's say if you were Campbell in this situation and you did make some deals, and you're like, let's say your kids in treatment right now, and you're just not watching this video, and you're like, oh, no, I made deals. Let me tell you what families. You can say, I changed my mind. That can be done.

You can say, I didn't know what I didn't know, and now I know what I know, and I'm not gonna honor what I said. My bad. I hope you'll forgive me.

You said, I'm really sorry about that. I spoke too soon. You can own it. But it is okay to have changed your mind. And just so you remember all the times that they told you something was gonna happen and didn't, maybe they'll help you feel a little better about it.

That's right. Fair is fair.

Yeah.

So that leads into the next one. This is, like, almost flowing. If you cannot hold boundaries, then don't send them. If you can't hold the boundary, if you can't come home or I'm not gonna give you money or whatever the boundary is. If you really find yourself still in a too much of a yo, yo space, then you're not ready to send them.

Right. Because. And I think what Campbell's hinting at here, which is really common, is especially for the first two weeks, the person's gonna have that run, reflect, and they're going to be calling you up and saying everything, just pushing whatever button they think is going to work to get you to get them out of there. And so you've got to be. You got to be prepared for that, because it's coming. It usually gets better. But somewhere in that first coup weeks, they're. They're gonna have, like, I changed my mind, and you're gonna have to just sort of be steady.

Yeah. Which is the next thing, which is if you can't tolerate emotional blackmail. Because a lot of times when I tell parents when they send kids anywhere is they're gonna get a lot of sentences that are like, everybody here is worse. They're teaching me about worse drugs. They're stealing my food. They're going to do those things which are going to be super hard to hear as a parent, because you don't want your child to be exposed to that or have their food stolen or their favorite pillow nabbed. That's emotional blackmail. And what I always tell parents is that you hear that to say, you know what? That sounds terrible. I suggest you talk to the staff about that.

Right.

Because otherwise, you're in it. And then you're going to say, well, I'll just come and get you or we'll send you somewhere else or. And it's just. It's just emotional blackmail so that you'll come get them.

Yeah. And you got to remember all those videos that you've seen that we've done about splitting. So it's like they're splitting you and the staff. And you got to remember like, that's still happening and don't fall into it because they're telling staff bad things about you, I promise. Yeah.

I think the biggie is if you don't understand what's needed for recovery, as in connection and pride and fun, then don't send them anywhere until you understand that. Because if you send them somewhere that's punitive or feels harsh or limited or lonely, which a lot of sober living does feel like that, especially when it's like more on the lower level of the working man, sober living, they're not going to stay there because they're not going to feel good. Fun is a major component. You also want to have like some level of staff, more importantly, some level of coming down the stairs, which I realize I'm moving my hands and you can't see them. But, you know, you don't just start up here and then come home or be done. You. And it's very important that you choose a place that has that system built in and supports that. And the child or the person steps out into normal life gradually so that they're. If they go in because their leg is broken, we help them with a cast and then crutches and then a cane or boot and then they put on their real shoes.

Right.

And it's important that you pick a good place that has that instead of here, you go check in by 10 and everybody's at work or school until 10 at night. So we'll see then. That's not going to do it.

And if you were ever going to be talking to a treatment center, you're trying to figure that out. The clinical way to talk about that is you just say, what levels of care do you guys offer? And they know what that means. And so it's like, okay, if we put our loved one in this highest level of care after that, and then say, and then what happens? And then what happens? And make sure that there's some kind of process. Send them here, Send them home to you in 30 days like that.

Yeah. You also want to make sure that there's a system for transitioning out that doesn't involve coming home. So maybe there are other people coming out who are graduating at the same time and they have a series of apartments that these guys can move into our houses and they live there for a couple months and then they reconfigure and maybe find another group of roommates so that very little is changing except maybe where they're living. But they're still working, going to the same school, same meetings, same everything. That is where I find the failure in the system is if it doesn't have steps and phases and there's no transition plan, then parents tend to bring them home because they don't know what else to do.

When you're dealing with a young person, you really need to be thinking like they're going to launch, it's a launching pad and they're going to launch out. And so you want there to be a good launch plan, not just like we're going to send them away. They're going to learn all these skills and then come back home. That just does not the only time. We don't even advise it. But you just don't have any other choices. If the person is like 16 or 17, you don't have a lot of option then and we get that. But if there are other options, all the other options are better. That's what I would say.

Yeah. And I think the last thing is you really, just as crass as this sounds, you really just need to understand how much this is going to cost. And then sort of I always tell parents like you guys have to make the decision of what do you want to spend on this. And if the answer is very little, that's okay. If that's all you have. We don't ever advise anyone mortgage their home or tap into their IRA for this. But it is going to cost. It's going to cost more than you want it to cost for long term success.

Right. I think that's such a good point. It's just an ugly topic talking about money and care. But it's just the reality of it and you got to talk about it. So if, if, let's say you have X amount of money, let's say you're, let's say this is your child and they have a college fund. I've told many parents to use the college fund because they're not going to go to college and they're not going to graduate unless we get this taken care of. So let's say you have an X amount.

I believe you said that to me.

I think I did. I heard that you don't want to take all of what you have and put it in a 30 day treatment and then not have anything financial resources or what resources to do the rest of the plan. So you want to kind of really think through the long haul of the situation when making financial types of decisions.

I talk to people all the time who tell me I don't have any money for sober living because I've sent them to six 30 day programs in the last two years and it really makes me just want to cry. And if I had the money to lend them I would, but because they just wasted $200,000 and now we don't have that last $25,000 for sober living. That would really help the kid get sober and stay sober.

Right. Because I know Campbell, you're like me and Campbell and I both feel like sober living is for a young person is probably the most important part of all the parts. So if you want money somewhere or if you want to figure out a plan and you want to figure out like I can't do it all, where can I do it A good sober living because.

So I couldn't even skip the 30.

Day thing in a real environment, not in a locked up place, but like going to work or school or having fun. That's, that's.

Yeah. A lot of times I tell people, skip the 30 day, we don't need it. Let's just go straight to sober living. If we need a detox, we'll do that, but let's just go straight to sober living.

Yeah. If you have to skip apart, don't skip sober living, skip something else right now. For those of you who are watching, make sure you put your questions in the chat. We, we're not ignoring you guys. We see you there. We just have a hard time going back and forth. So we're going to come back and answer some questions. Kimball, is that. I wasn't counting. Good. Where are you at on your list?

Done.

Not that's what I thought, but I wasn't sure. What I would like to add that is that there are a lot of other levels of care other than long term residential treatment and you need to consider those first. And especially if this is your first round. I probably wouldn't go out the gate with the maximum amount of treatment regardless of the situation because usually when it comes to substance abuse it's going to take more than once or twice and you don't want to pull your ace card out immediately. You want to save that back in case you do need it. So there's intensive outpatient. There's partial hospitalization, which is like day treatment. There's sober living, which we just talked. Talked about. There's counseling. Counseling, I feel like, is really good. Like, individual counseling is really good before treatment. Like, if someone isn't ready or they don't think they have a problem, it can kind of get them ready. And after. Individual counseling by itself probably isn't enough to get someone an active addiction to stop using. I don't think.

No, I don't either. But I do think individual counseling is imperative for families so that they. That's where they learn what is all going to be entailed in this process. And what is the. What is the process exactly like, you know, you guys, we don't know. We don't know what we don't know, and we don't want to know what we don't know. So we don't want to shoot the gun until we know what the target is.

Yeah. And so this is all about making sure you're prepared as the family member, making sure that you understand what options are available and that you have a good longer term. Like Campbell says, that that transition plan, not just one piece of it, and then the rest of it's going to fall apart. And I actually, we have a treatment guide that. That we wrote a long time ago and the links in the description, if you want to download it, it's free. It's. It's not treatment about us. It's just treatment about all the different levels of care, what things cost, what questions to ask. I think there's a sober living question checklist that you can download for free. So make sure you check that out. You can find that description for the video you're watching. All right, I'm gonna go through Campbell and see. I do see some questions and comments popping up here. You guys need to take advantage of Campbell while she's here.

I'll come back if you're nice to me.

Amber, you're somebody who just has given you a nice shout out says, love that. Campbell just gave us advice not to make deals followed up by simple permission of change my mind. That's right. Christina says someone getting opioids off the street after running out of a high dose mid month. This is after a decade of prescribed use. What are the chances of recovery without treatment? So I guess what they're saying is somebody had been dependent, they've been being prescribed them and then couldn't get them prescribed anymore, and it was out on the street.

I mean, I don't believe in statistics. They either don't happen and they're 0 or they do and they're 100. But not overly positive slant on that. But I never say never. But I wouldn't start with 30 days or sober living. I would start with maybe some counseling and some of that lower level stuff for that person to come to the conclusion that maybe they need a higher level of care.

Yeah. If nothing else, just to get a good evaluation to make sure. You know what.

And is that it? Is there maybe more to talk to.

Someone and find out, okay, what's the severity and what do we need kind.

Of thing and what will happen if we don't?

Right. We have another positive comment. Hello. Glad to be here. I'm seeing positive results by practicing some of the things on your videos. Thank you. Well, thank you back. Appreciate the comment. Let's see. Here we go. Nervous about having my sister move in with me. She's now on methadone and has a 3 year old but hasn't worked in years. Has no driver's license or car, but at least isn't using drugs. Right. As in. Right. Is that right?

Right. I would be nervous too.

I'm nervous for you, Kevin.

I'm nervous for you because that could work. But.

You know, it just makes me nervous because it sounds like it's gonna be. She's gonna be completely 100% dependent on you for everything to just, just leave, to go anywhere. And that's just a lot of, that's.

A lot to have to do, a lot on you. And it's going to be super difficult and she's probably going to get very resistant to it.

You're probably going to build resentments towards each other is my concern. And I don't even know, like you said, that your sister's on methadone. And a lot of times when you're on methadone you have to go like every day, every other day, early in the morning to get it. And so you have to do all that driving and getting a three year old in the car, that's just like, it does make me nervous. And a lot of it depends on the personality types and the boundaries. It could work, but you're going to need some solid understanding first. Yeah.

Yeah. It's gonna be tough.

Johnny says even though I knew better, I need this reminder last week. Thanks for talking this morning. Camera. Look at you. Just got like the fan clubs on here.

That's because I'd send cash out to these people early in the morning.

They're like paid AUD participants.

I'm like Ellen.

Terry says, do you have any suggestions for young people for sober living? So many in the Tucson area where I live are older men from prison and just don't want to put 22 to 28 year olds. Oh, I know Campbell has ants for this.

There's a place in Utah called Balance House that has a great reputation. I think it's sort of on par with the, well, Greenville transitions in Greenville or Purple in Atlanta. But I haven't ever sent anyone to Balance House. I've given the name to a couple people. They might have gone. I just haven't talked to those people subsequent to giving them the name. But they're very good. And it's, it's a. Definitely the phases and the transition and the fun components built into that for young guys.

I do think, Terry, you made a good point about the age and just, just age demographics, everything about the different types of places and it's not always possible. If you, if possible, we like for it to be like a young person specific sober living. Just because young people have things to learn other than just how to not use. They have to learn young adult skills and stuff like that.

So they also, if they don't have fun so they need to be with their peers, they're not going to stay sober. Why would anyone want to live a life that's not fun? So it's important that there's some level of outdoor recovery program or golfing or fishing or snowboarding or whatever it is that they can connect with each other while they work on their sobriety and life skills and all those other things that come along with sober living. The fun is, it's a component. I just don't think any place should do without.

Definitely not for young people.

Not for young people. And frankly, I'm old, but I don't want to be not having fun.

Yeah. If you don't learn to have to make your recovery fun and enjoyable, what's the chance you're going to stick with it? Right. It's not, not very much so. Victoria says, I love that I changed my mind. Thank you for the reminder of us can keep the boundaries.

Sean said make that a bumper sticker.

Yeah, I could change my mind. Sean says. Does the link give location reviews for sober living places? I've heard some are good and some are not. The link mostly just explains to you what the different kinds of options are, what questions to ask, what to look for and that kind of thing. But it doesn't Necessarily point to specifics. I think the sober living question download may have a few of our like ones we've used before that we know good things about. But just because something's not on there doesn't mean they're not a good place because we mostly refer like around us locally so we know more about those places. It's more just like a location issue.

I think it's important to note though that sober living is unregulated in this country. So there are really good and there are really bad and then there's 50 shades of gray in between. So you're going to have to discern am I around the 50% mark and above is what I would be shooting for. So even if you aren't going to send your kid to purple agreeable transitions, maybe go look at their websites to sort of get a feel for what those components would look like and then look maybe closer to your region of the country for those same components.

I think the big, the big. If I could just put it into big general categories would be is there staff on site? Is there 247 staff on site? How does the transportation issue work? These are some of the things that you want to know. Because if there's structure and staff and resources, things tend to run a lot more smoothly. Right? Yeah.

Then I'm just on my own out in the city until midnight.

Right?

That's not a good idea.

Or I've seen it too. It's like you have to go to so many meetings a week, but they don't provide transportation. So you're, you're just on your own to find a ride. Well, that can get a little, that.

Just causes a lot of anxiety and that's not fun. So why would I stay there?

Right. Jessica says I've gone through treatment. I have been clean and so for five years. The advice I hear from both of you on channel is good, honestly. Thank you, Jessica. Yay.

High five.

Yeah, let's see. I have a good, a good way to do treatment. I just don't know how to get started.

Yeah, that's me. I had a good idea too when I wrote a book that never got published and I don't have the, I don't have the energy to start treatment. So I, that would, I would commend you for doing it, but it will take a whole lot of money and energy.

Oh, I didn't even get that what you're saying.

Yeah, she has a good idea for.

How to starting a treatment. Ah, see, I didn't pick up on that. Camel.

Your readers.

I know, right? I just missed that. Yeah. Especially like women, sober living, there tends to be a lack of. There's definitely some holes in the system out there that could be filled for sure.

A lot of holes. It's like Swiss cheese, right?

Let's see. Jessica says, I always wanted to start a full treatment center that includes detox all the way to finally living on their own. That's a tough. That's a tough plan.

There's good ones out there that do it, but they're not a lot of them.

And usually they're owned by big companies that have been in the business for a long time. Not that they're bad, but it's just a lot. There's just so many pieces and components here. But the other thing you can do is partner up with different places and facilities to bridge those gaps. So. All right. I think Campbell has to go to her. She's got to go.

1:30.

1:30 appointment. Thank you guys for hanging out with us. I think Campbell's gonna have another video for you guys coming out pretty soon, so keep your eye out for that one. And if you would like to talk with Campbell about your specific situation, there's. I will put a link in the description for that as well, because maybe you want to talk through what's going on with your loved one and make sure you're making the right choices, too. All right, thanks, everybody. See you next week. Bye, guys.