Behind The Scenes Of Addiction Recovery

All right, you guys, you are in for a treat today. You're gonna get the behind the scenes. Behind the scenes on two things. Behind the scenes on what it's like to be a parent or have a loved one struggling with an addiction, and also behind the scenes of being in the treatment or the clinical role of the. Of the addiction treatment world. You know, what are some of those things that don't necessarily always get said out loud, the things you might not hear otherwise? That's what we're going to hear about. And we have Scott Nunnery here with us. He is a family recovery coach, and he is uniquely able to give you this information because he's been on both sides of the fence. So he's going to kind of tell you about the wisdom he's gained, things he's learned from those experiences, mistakes that I've made.

Yes.

Right now I've got a list of 10 questions I've come up with, and we had two more submitted already. So if you've got questions for Scott, go ahead and put them up there. I'm worried we're not going to get to all of them. So you better go ahead and get your questions up there. Get yourself at the top of the list as we talk. And at the end, we'll come back and we'll take the questions from the chat. If you're watching on the replay and you have questions, feel free to go ahead and put them in the comment section because we try to go back and answer as many of those as we as we possibly can. All right, here we go. Scott, ready for number one?

Ready.

Your first question is what are some of the things that family members often think or struggle with but they won't say out loud?

There's a few that come to mind. One, I think some of the easy ones, I think shame is a lot of early on in the process, I think parents have a little hard time talking about the shame of it, the guilt, the of it. Maybe if especially between married couples, it seems to be they sometimes keep secrets from one another and they're afraid to talk about some things because they may be the enabler piece or they may have some special guilt that they're afraid to tell each other. The one I think I talk to a lot of dads about, that's hard to admit. I guess this is the big one is when you're in the bad part of it, in the worst of times. And I can think back from my experience, my son had a bad overdose and I knew he was out driving that night, going to find more drugs. And so I thought. I mean, this was probably the fourth or fifth relapse. I was afraid he was going to kill somebody in the car because I knew how messed up they were. And so at. You know, sometimes you think, would it be better if it was just over? And, you know, would it be better if it ended? And so those are hard. Those are hard ones to admit. But I think, you know, if you've got a bad situation, you've probably at one point or another had that cross your mind.

Right. If you've had it bad and it's been going on a long time, it's a natural thought to have. And to me, it's the same as when you have, like, let's say you have a loved one who's. Who's sick with any other illness. Right. And they're so sick and they're so miserable, and they're in hospices. And it's like the family is just killing the family. It's killing the person. And it's not an evil thought that you have. You know, it's a natural thought, but it's one that so many people are, you know, they're not necessarily likely to say it out loud.

Yeah. Well, it's hard to admit. And once you hear maybe some other parent to admit it, you kind of feel like you're not the. You're not the weird one, because that's a hard thing to have come across your mind right.

Now, I will tell you for sure that the person that has the addiction, when they're in thrills of it, they think the same thing all the time.

Yeah.

And they kind of are living almost. I call it, like, passively suicidal, you know, just like, if I don't wake up, whatever. Because everybody's so miserable. Right. It's just. This is a terrible place to be caught.

Yeah.

Now, but we have seen, just so you all know, we have seen many, many, many people come back from that level of difficulty and flourish.

Yep.

So.

And we did. My son's been sober three years, so that. That was about three and a half years ago. Yeah.

But there are some dark days.

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

All right. What are some things you've learned since starting to work in the field that you didn't know as a family member when you were going through the process.

I think, how common addiction is, how many families that it does affect? Obviously, when you get into it, you start to realize that there's more than just you, but just. Just a number of families. And across all Economic situations across all kind of just, just everywhere it affects. But then I think the other is, as I coach a lot of families now, just how special and unique everybody thinks their situation is, but it's really all pretty much the same. You know, you and I have talked about personality, certainly can be different, but everybody thinks, you know, we'll talk to a family that's newly come into rehab. I'm a parent coordinator at a rehab, and when they come in, they want to make sure that they tell me to make sure I tell the counselor how depressed their son really is or how bad his anxiety or how bad his adhd, whatever the circumstance, but want to say how bad it is. And in almost every family says that, you know, there's so. I think everybody thinks it's so, so special, but in the end of the day, it's.

It's a symptom of the problem. It's on the symptom list. Like, we expect it to be there because it goes along with issue. And it's hard because you don't want to minimize somebody's issues or trauma especially, you know, but. But anyone that has an addiction is very depressed and very anxious, and they look like they're bipolar, so. And maybe those things are there, but that would be an expectation rather than like a uniqueness almost.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

All right, here's. This is a big one. The big one is. And you've done this a few times, so I'm expecting a good answer. You, Scott, how do you pick a good treatment center?

That's a loaded question. I tell parents all the time that the treatment center where their loved one gets sober and stays sober for any length of time is going to be the best treatment center to that family. Right. So you can pick a treatment center a and one family has a wonderful experience, and then another family at that treatment center, A will have a terrible experience. And a lot of it might be just the fact that their loved one wasn't ready at that time.

Right. It's timing.

It's time and time. It has a lot to do with it. But I do think there's a lot of good rehabs. There's a lot of bad rehabs. There's tons of choices. And so just some of the things off the top of my head, because I think we've probably been through that process. I don't know, six, seven different places that we actually sent our boys to. I've probably researched 30, but we. We've paid at seven or eight different places. So I think making sure that the treatment that they have a treatment for what is the most problem. So for instance, if it is dual diagnosis, if they are suffering for some really mental issues, make sure the place has some mental health treatment, make sure they do have a certified counselor, make sure they do have whatever everybody thinks is kind of the major cause. So I think that's one. Another big one to me is finding a place that kind of suits the person so that they'll want to stay.

Yeah, I love that answer when I talk about that.

I mean, like one of my. Zach went to a place that is real big on outdoor activities and they call it active recovery lifestyle. And so, you know, let's just say you pick that place and your son hates the outdoors. He hates cliff diving, he hates getting in the water in rivers. And that might not be the best fit because at the end of the day, you know, they are adults and they don't have to stay there. So I think picking a place that seems to match their. Their likes and just, you know, of what they like to do.

I love that you said that, Scott, because right when you said that, I was like, oh man, that's just dead on. Because, you know, what matters is whether or not the place or the person, whether it's like a counselor. It's like I should ever. You're picking can engage your loved one.

Exactly.

That's it. Because it doesn't matter how good the treatment is or what the message is. It doesn't matter if your loved one doesn't connect into it. If they don't like this person, if they don't like something about it, it's that like, that opens the listening door.

Absolutely.

So I just think that you. You hit the nail on that one of our other. Someone else I know and I did his story talked about he was in rehab and he was going to have to go sober living. He was real mad, didn't want to go, trying to fit. And he said all right, but only going if they have snowboarding. So his mama found a snowboard and rehab and he went, yes. Yeah. And that's okay. You know, like there's rehabs on farms. There's, you know, I call it treehouse wilderness rehab. There's ribs go to and you get raised puppy. You know, like there's all kind of stuff and.

Well, I know this may sound minor, Amber, but that there was a faith based program that I was considering that to go to, but they didn't allow any nicotine.

Mm.

Well, Zach probably dipped two cans of skull a day at that point in his life probably smoked a pack of cigarettes a day. And I just knew if I sent. And if I sent him there where they wouldn't allow him to dip or smoke, he probably wouldn't have stayed a half of a day.

No. I've seen a lot of people leave treatment over that. Like, they're struggling bad enough they need a cigarette. Like, that's just not a battle I fight. I've never fought that battle, even with teenagers. I'm like, I'm not. Not doing it.

Exactly.

Yeah.

And then I think, you know, maybe even sometimes I think more, maybe even more important. It's obviously very important that they get the treatment while they're there. But what is the aftercare program? What. What is the transition program? Do this. Does this place encourage that they get out and stay in that area versus sending them back home? I think that's very important. The length of stay. You know, I've tried 30 day programs for us. It didn't work. I'm not saying all 30 day programs don't work. It has not proven to work for my two boys. But trying to find a place that can get them there for a length of time, three months, six months, and then has a transition program after that. That is an aftercare program that, you know, the good thing about the facility that my son went to is they have a great alumni program. So they encourage them to get out within, you know, three to five miles of the place and continue to come back for alumni meetings. And it gives them other sober guys to connect with and try to go do stuff with, you know, go fishing or go bowling or hiking or whatever the activity is. And they're all trying to stay sober. So I think aftercare is a big part of it.

Right. Because that kind of leads into one of the questions we had submitted, which was, you know, this. The question was about like, length of stay. Why do some people go 30 days and other people go 60 days? And how do you know how long your loved one needs or not? I think Scott is dead on. If you're gonna do like a 30 day or something like that, if you're gonna do like a 30 day inpatient, it's gonna need to be followed up. Especially if we're dealing with a young person, it's gonna need to be followed up with sober living.

Yeah.

Occasionally if you're dealing with like an adult married person, you can do a 30 day rehab followed by an IOP or something like that, and they can go back home. But I really have never seen that Work for a young person.

Exactly.

That is a special so you circumstance exactly their age.

No, absolutely. I tell you one thing parents seem to get hung up on sometimes too is the actual facility and how nice the facility is. Or you know, maybe is. What do the living quarters look like? I can tell you this. If, if I worried about the living quarters, the place that my son got sober, I would have never sent him there. They, they live 14 guys in a, in a school portable. And so it's bunk beds, it's packed. If you were to walk in there, at first glance, you would think, oh my God. But what it does is it helps with connectivity, it helps the guys get closer together. There is no secrets of 14 guys living in a school portable.

Yeah, there's no way to be off in your room.

There's no way to be sketchy. There's no way to be sketch by yourself. And to be sketch because there's 13 other guys in that room with you at night. So I wouldn't worry too much. You know, obviously you want a clean place, but I wouldn't worry too much about the facility. Zach even told me one time that I sent him to a 30 day place that it was too nice and that they were ripping me off. I wouldn't worry about the facilities. And then the other one that I wrote down is a lot of people want to ask about the success rate is if you were to, if you're calling up and you asked a rehab about their success rate, if they tell you 90 to 95%, I would hang up. Exactly.

Hang up.

Do not call them back. That is such a hard statistic to measure. And I think if a rehab is honest with you and tells you how hard that is to measure, but also, but also points to some success, I would ask questions like, well, how many guys do you know? How many people do you normally have there? How many has gone through your program? You know, if you can ask some questions like that and they can talk a little bit about success, but if they want to, if they want to claim some crazy success rate, I'd hang up.

Yeah, I had this marketing guy from our treatment center come up to talk to us one day and he was sitting while I was talking to me and he was telling me this big success rate. And as soon as he said it, listen, anything else he said, I was like, not happening or whatever. Right. A good way to measure success, and this is kind of how I like to measure it is to the people that come through the program feel like they had a good Experience there, because even if they go back and they use again, but they had a good experience with treatment, they're very much more likely to either go back to that center or somewhere else or try recovery again because they had a good experience with recovery. And it's about that engagement piece. So instead of looking at, like, the fancy environment, it's okay to have a fancy environment. I mean, I'm all right with that, but. But what's the. What's the culture in the atmosphere?

Yeah.

Are the people friendly? Do they seem approachable? Do the other clients that are same friendly and approachable? That is the most important factor.

Exactly. And, you know, of course, I asked about the staff, the experience of the staff, how long they've been there, how long they've been in recovery as a. As a counselor or caseworker or whatever, I think that's important. And then the last thing is I just wouldn't get too worked up over one or two neg views on social media. As I told you, this particular rehab, where's that was successful? I sent. I've sent a few people there, and most of them have been successful. One or two have had a terrible experience. And it just so happens that at the particular time that they went, there was a certain. You know, obviously a part of the rehab is the client group that is there, and you get two guys together that, you know, are trying to find some trouble together. They may find the trouble together, and. And it may not work out. So I think I wouldn't worry about a couple of negative reviews if you see that on the Internet.

Right. Well, if you. If you see a bunch of reviews, you see a couple negative ones, it lets you know those are really. Reviews are real. Okay, let's see. What are things about the addiction treatment process that families really don't understand? And we may have just answered a lot of that and some of that conversation we have, but anything we didn't say.

Yeah. You know, sometimes I think families don't realize how much influence they can have even while their loved one is at treatment. And that could be on a positive manner and a negative manner. Again, being a parent coordinator, we get involved with a lot of parents, and sometimes we just ask the parents, because as parents, we're trying to still fix it. We're still trying to control it. So they. Sometimes we just ask them and we call it just. If they'll just get out of the way, let the process work, and not influence it in a negative manner. And by doing it. And one of the ways to do that is to work on yourself. And so the positive piece of that, how can you have a positive influence is to work on yourself. Let the rehab, the intensive outpatient or the residential treatment, whatever it is, let them work on your loved ones. You work on yourself. And it seems to work so much better.

Oh, my gosh. Yes. I just say amen to that.

We tell parents all the time, I promise you, if you're, if, if you're wherever they are, whatever treatment they're in, if they have a parent meeting, family meeting, and you go to it, they, they real, they recognize it and they know you're either there or you're not there. And we realize that you can't maybe make every one of them. But the point is, if you get active in the family piece of it, I think you can have a really, a good, positive influence, but stay out of their treatment.

If they're in treatment state just. I say all the time, and Campbell last year trying to say this, and I say, you know, I usually see that addict, you and Campbell, you see the families. And I say, let me tell you what, those of you who haven't seen Cam, she's real tall and skinny. I'm like short and round. We look like number 10 or something. But anyways, she, I say all the time, like, you know, what Campbell does for me, why she's so skinny is because she has a big old crowbar in her office. And her whole job is to proud of families, bag and hold them there while I work with you, literally. And then I can say we need 10 more minutes or six months, and she's got to figure out how to hold them there. And then, you know, she laughs. She's like, yeah, that's kind of what I do. Yeah, that's it.

Absolutely.

Yeah. All right, let's see here. What is one thing you wish someone would have told you when you were.

Going through this, how hard it is. You know, when, when we first got in it with, with our first son, we literally just thought we could send him off for 30 days, pay the money, and they would fix it and just didn't have a clue how hard this process can be. Now, it's not for every family. Sure, there's, there are the exceptions where somebody goes off to a 30 day rehab, comes home and never touches a drug again in their life.

Hold on, let me also say something about that. That does happen, but it only happens if there was a lot of craziness before they went to that rehab. They have to have. All the trouble is coming Somewhere or it's not addiction. Right?

It's not addicted. Right.

Yeah.

So I think just if we. If we would have. If I'd have been told a little bit of how hard it was early on, and then I was told this early on by Campbell and a couple other counselors that ended up, for them, it was one of the best things that ever happened to them. And I couldn't understand that at the time. And most people can't. You know, that's not uncommon. Right. You just can't fathom how in the heck somebody could say that. But looking back on it today, after being through it for about 10 years now, I can say the same thing. It certainly was. It has been a huge help in my life for me to make good changes and become a better person.

If you make it through this, whether you're the person with the addiction or the family, you will come out a stronger, better person. There's no way around it.

No way around it.

No way around it. All right. Is there anything you wish you would have done differently? Looking back as a parent?

A bunch. I think the main thing is I wish I would have recognized it sooner. I was in denial for a long time. I had my head in the sand, and so I wished I would have been able to recognize it sooner, that it was a. It was a real problem, not just teenagers trying things and, you know, normal. It wasn't normal. And I had my head in the sand for a long time. And then I think the other part of that is if I would have asked for help sooner, I think that would have also have helped me realize that it was more of a problem than it actually was. But just reaching out for help, because I. I guess we went through it a good. Probably two years before I ever had counseling.

I love that you said that, Scott, because I just want to make sure you guys heard Scott. So I'm gonna repeat it here. He said, I wish I would look for help for me. For me sooner, not them sooner.

Yes.

Because it wouldn't have worked for them sooner. They weren't ready, but it. But they. The person could be ready sooner if the family gets ready sooner. That's right. Yeah. I love that you said that. That's great. Is addiction treatment really worth the money? How do you make these financial decisions, especially, you know, it's like, it's your family, right? It's your loved one, and it's your kid or it's your husband. Like, you know, do you ever say, I'm just not paying? It's not Worth it, or I'm not paying again and I'm paid 10 times or what? You know, like, how do you. How do you navigate the finances of all that?

I do think that is unique to every family because everybody's economic situation is different. And I say to people all the time, if we could, let's just say it doesn't matter. The family really doesn't matter, the economic situation. If I told you today that to fix your problem, write me a check for $100,000, I think every family would find a way to find that money, would write that check, and we would fix it. It would be fixed. Everybody would find a way to do that. But in the addiction process, there are no promises. So we could. We could pay 100,000, we could pay 500,000, but there's no promises that it's going to fix it. So I think that's the real hard part. And then, you know, after you've. If you've paid for three or four and you've paid out that 80,0001-000001-50000, it's like, when do you stop? And so I think we, you know, I tell people that, you know, don't go borrow money. Addiction can take everything. It'll take all your money. It'll take your marriage. It'll take. It'll take everything if you let it. And then there's still no guarantee. So I certainly wouldn't, I don't. Wouldn't suggest borrowing money. I think at some point you have to draw the line and say, this is all I'm going to pay. Generally, we have more than one kid and you know that we have other people to take care of. We have. We have to look for our own. Like in my situation, you know, not too, too far from retirement, but at some point you got to say, I just can't do it.

Right.

We just looked into a situation for. For my son, the youngest son, for mental is. It's a mental health and addiction treatment. And we just got the information back yesterday. It's 27,000amonth. And it's like, we can't afford that.

Right.

And so, yeah, there's situations where, I think just depending on the situations and you know, there's a million ways to get sober. So it doesn't have to be in treatment residential at the nicest place in Arizona or in California. Right. It could be literally them going to pick up a chip this afternoon at an AA meeting. And it's free, so it's. It. But do I think it's worth the money? Yes. In my situation, for both boys, I think it's been worth the money. One is still finding his way but we are going to try to find another facility for him because I think the money that we've spent this past year and a half, even though it hadn't gotten exactly the results we wanted, we've seen improvement.

Right, right, right. Now I will say, well for one, before I forget to mention it in the links in the description, I'm going to put Scott has a list that he made Scott's checklist on sort of rebuilding your family after addictions happen. I'm going to put that link up here and if you're watching on YouTube and you look in the description, I've got some links down there to addiction treatment guide that will help you understand all these questions like how long, how much does insurance like all those logistical. And one of the things you can do financially make a good decision is understand what options are out there and what you're buying. Don't just, you know, throw darts at the board just willy nilly like that's the way you're gonna waste money. And, and, and, and when you make a financial decision, make it knowing it's probably going to take more than one. So if you, if you, if you are going to spend a hundred thousand dollars, then you might want to be do like you know, 30, 30 and 30 or something like that. Because it's probably going to take more than one. Yeah.

And Amber, I guess the last thing I'll say about that is, you know, sometimes I think people think the more expensive it is, the better. We have absolutely found that not to be true. So just because a plate, you know, one place is 15,000 and another place is 5, don't think that the place at 15 is the best choice.

Right.

So I think there's certainly a lot of affordable places that offer some good care.

It is complicated. I will say that like especially when you look at sober living, the price range is like literally it ranges from a hundred dollars a week to $15,000 a month. I mean it's, it's a huge difference.

All over the place.

And Scott is right when he says, you know, just because it's the most expensive doesn't mean it's the best. But I will say this. If you're looking at a sober living and they're charging a hundred dollars a week, there's no way they can pay staff to be there.

No.

And if there's not staff in a house with, you know, 10 teenagers or 20 year olds with drug addiction. Not. Not the good plan. So it's a balance. Yeah.

Totally agree.

Yeah. All right, let's see. What's our next one? If you could make family members understand one important thing about the process, what would it be?

Kind of like what we talked about before is that, you know, you can't fix it. And when you finally learn that, and when I finally learned that, it helped. You know, until your loved one is ready to get sober and ready to make a life change and they're sick and tired of living the way they're living, that's when they'll start showing improvement. But you can't control it. You can't fix it. All the begging, crying, pleading, all the, you know, the enabling, all the. All the stuff that we try to do as parents, it doesn't. It doesn't help. And they're going to get sober when they're ready to make that change.

Right. One thing I think families can do is they can help their person get ready faster. They really can't fix it. But you can help someone move through those stages of change faster.

Absolutely. And that's where we talked about the influence. We definitely think you can have a lot of positive influence. Um, yeah.

Yeah. Do you ever. Let's see. Did you ever get frustrated as a family member dealing with addiction treatment centers, counselors, providers, psychiatrists? If so, what were your frustrations?

You know, we've actually had really good experiences. I got frustrated trying to find the place. That process of trying to find out what is the cost, what. What are the treatment options. All that kind of stuff is very. It's not only frustrating, it's just complicated. And it's so, so overwhelming. You don't know what to do.

Right.

And so I found that process very frustrating. But once we actually found the place, we've actually had really good experiences so far where I really haven't found myself really frustrated with the actual facility, but.

Okay.

The whole process of trying to get them there's very frustrating.

Oh, my gosh. Yes. You're so right on talking about that. And that's why I tell family members, start that process long before your person's ready.

Absolutely.

Because it's not something you can scramble and put together quickly. It is. I mean, even as somebody in the system, it's the most pain in the butt. Thing I do is try to figure that out. Like, it's just. It's just difficult, complicated. So start that early. Know what you like. You like. You start thinking about colleges early. Start thinking about this early.

Exactly.

Yeah. Do you ever get frustrated now as a recovery coach dealing with families? If so, what's the most frustrating thing? All right, here comes the confessions.

I was going to say these might be the confessions and the secrets. You know, certainly, I think us trying to help families, we get frustrated at times, but it's understandable. We understand that families just may not be in that position to make the change. They may not be ready yet. But. But is it frustrating when you meet with the family for a while and they say they hear you, they understand you get a plan of action, and then the next week they go out and totally 180 the plan of action and go pretty much against everything we just talked about in session. And occasionally that does get frustrating, but we understand that we did it. I did it. But at some point, you really want them to just be brave enough and to make the changes that are needed and to have that influence that we're talking about, because they do have the influence, and they can certainly slow down their loved one getting into help, and they can speed it up if we can make some of the right decisions. But occasionally that does get frustrating.

Yeah. I find the same thing. For some reason, when I deal with the person that has the addiction, I go into it knowing there's gonna be a whole lot back and forth and they're not gonna listen to anything I say. It doesn't bother me at all. Like, I'm just like, we're fine. We're gon get there. The families, it's like I expect them to just, like, tell something. They're just gonna do it. And I get impatient with them, and I. I forget all the time, like, this is a parallel process. You know, the families have got to get there, too. And they do a lot of the same. It's. They do a lot of the same things. You know, it's a grieving process. It's a figuring it out kind of thing. Yes.

Yeah.

I'll tell y' all a funny story about Scott, because when he was saying that, it made me remember. Now, wait till you. Scott about this. And if you watch his story, which is on the YouTube channel, you can hear this part. But Scott took his son. His son wasn't doing well and was going to have to step up and go to bigger treatment. Look at sky. It's turning red. He's going to have to go to a bigger treatment. And Scott said, all right, I'm going to send a big treatment, but the whole family, we're all going to go to Disney. Disney World. First we're like, scott taking the perk, taking the son with the problem. We're like, scott, are you sure he did it? It's just funny. You can hear about that in his story.

It was a disaster. We still laugh about it because we drove from South Carolina down to Disney World, I think eight hours, and we're three or four hours in it. And he's in the back seat, he's so high. And he goes to sleep for about an hour. Then he wakes up and he tells me to pull over, he's gonna drive. I'm like, no, dude, you're not driving. And now it starts to escalate where he's really getting heated and telling me, yes, he's so thank God he passed out a few minutes after that because I really thought we were going to be wrestling on the side of the interstate. And it kind of got worse from there. The week. As the week went on. So, yeah, I didn't. That's why I say I. I get frustrated sometimes, but I think back and I look at the mistakes that I made. I'm like, yeah, they were probably very frustrated with me.

No, we weren't. We just thought that was funny, honestly. All right, here's another one that got submitted earlier, and that one is. How do you talk to someone about going to treatment?

Yeah, I think, you know, timing is certainly a big thing with trying to get your loved one to go to treatment. And I think you put it good when I've heard you talk about it, is. Is you, you know, you want to use that at the right time and you don't want to overuse it. If you threaten, if you're always threatening to send your loved one to treatment, that's. That's going to get old and not going to work. But, you know, if you can get them to that situation where they really have no other choice and they're. They're willing to just put their hand out and take a help from somebody, I think is the time is huge. And then also, as the family. Can I say the family can influence the fact that it is really a survival decision is the only decision at that time that they can make. And I think. And then having empathy, I think obviously empathy with the situation, encouragement that you can do this, those kind of things help as well.

But no. Yes, Scott is right on target. Because, you know, I have so many people that we see, their family is been telling them for five years, you need to get help. You need to get help before the person even thought they had a problem. So when you start doing that, the person just tunes you out, and then you're just an irritation. But if you wait until the right moment and say, hey, I think you don't even have to push hard. You can just sort of thump them, and they'll just fall into it, like. But it's a timing thing, Scott. You're right about that. Yeah.

We said with our boys that our boys really need never seem to make a. When they were in addiction, they didn't make a good decision until that was the only. You know, until they were forced to, really. And that's when they seem to make good decisions and say, hey, I need help.

Yeah, you gotta wait until the idea of going to treatment seems better than the alternative.

Yeah.

If you're. If you're saying that too soon, they're. It's just. There's loving it. You're like, what are you. What are you talking about? Yeah. Yeah. All right, here we go. Out of Sight says, I'm a vocational counselor at an addiction program. How do you guys feel about the vocational aspect of treatment? Oh, this is a good question. Out of sight. What you think, Scott?

I think it's awesome. I think, you know, to try to get a person involved in something, a vocation that they enjoy and that they love to do. And I know there was a woodworking program at one of the places that my son went to at one time that seemed to really work. The guys that got in there really like to do things with their hands. And, you know, again, what I think you're trying to teach them a lot of things, but one way is a new way of life and. And a vocation that they would get interested in. So I think that's a. It's a good piece of treatment.

Yeah. If there was one thing that I could think to add to treatment programming or that was more accessible, it would be vocational stuff because, like, a lot of, like, sober living and stuff, after you're there so long, you do have to get a job, but then they have a hard time getting a job. Right. And the vocational piece is so important. It gives, you know, a sense of structure. When you have to go to work, you have your accountability. And plus, you're just busy, you know, and you've got things to do and you feel better about yourself. There's just so many reasons why that really should go up there with, like, the group counseling and the psychiatry and all that really should go up on the list, like, right up there with that stuff.

Yep.

Jennifer says, do you think a drug addict of 20 years who's also ADHD can find full recovery with therapy without therapy or professional help. What should be done if they refuse help, claiming they can do this on their own? Wow.

I think, you know, 20 years in addiction to do it on your own is really hard. And you know, we kind of talked about. I think you hit on that earlier when you said the age matters. Right. Is that, can, can an adult maybe at 40 years old go into a 30 day program and get detox and kind of get some of that physical dependency of the drug away from them to try to help them? I'll never say never. On what might work. I think it could work, but I think that would be a very difficult situation. Somebody being in addiction that long and doing it on their own is. That's an uphill battle.

Yeah. Jennifer, what I would say to that is I don't think you can beat addiction on your own, period. But that doesn't mean you have to go to inpatient treatment either. Right. There's a lot of ways. You know, to me, when someone says do it on my own, that means like, literally, I'm just deciding tomorrow I'm done with it and that's it. Like, yeah, I'm not going to go to a meeting, I'm not going to talk to a counselor. You know, it doesn't have to be six months of treatment kind of help, but you're going to need. The reason that is, Jennifer, is because you can't trust yourself when it comes to your addiction. You can't. You have to turn the reins over somewhere somehow. And so, yeah, yeah. And the ADHD part, that's one of those special circumstances that feels like a special circumstance. 95% of people I see have ADHD. Scott's son has real big. That's just a, that's just a given.

Yeah, yeah.

Nicole says, how do you try to remain calm and supportive when they're in active addiction in your home? And if you're able to, why would they want to change if things are fairly pleasant at home? That's a two parter.

Yeah. Again, not knowing the age piece makes it a little bit maybe more difficult to answer. But, you know, certainly them being in the house with you, let's just say they're 18 or younger. I mean, you know, that's, that's something that you're going to have to deal with. But I think the whole thing of you going to get help for you, whether right now it sounds like they're not. They don't think they have A problem so they're not looking for help. I would suggest for you to go get help and talk to a counselor, explain the situation and let them give you some advice. There would be one of my first thing. I wish I would have done that so much sooner. I don't know if you have anything to add to that.

It's going to be really calm to stay calm or really hard to stay calm when it is in your house. Yeah, I do think it's important to the best you can. I can speak to the second part of the question which was if you are calm, you know, does that make the person less motivated because their environment's pleasant? I just, I don't think that that's the case because the first thing we try to make happen is get the families calm and that increases the chances that the person will go to treatment because as long as you're yelling and screaming and pit throwing and threatening, they're focused on you as the problem and that is blocking their view of seeing that they have problems. So the first thing we do is make it go away because that's when the person can stop blaming you and have to look at what they're doing to their own life. So yeah, yeah.

But a piece of that is just, you know, stop trying to be the police. Stop. Stop trying to find all the things that would get you upset again. Again. Some. Some of it is right up in your face and you can't help it. But yeah, it is hard sometimes to be calm.

Yeah. Try Alan on groups for help if he, if he is. I think Kathy must be answering somebody else there. See here. TR says I'm reading codependent no more while my son attends rehab. Also joined to family group Families Anonymous is one that helps. So that's good. You know, you're working on. You're working on you.

Yeah. Getting educated is huge. You know, reading all the books you can godly. I read the codependency books, the enabling books. Yeah. But getting educated is huge. It's a big help. Gotta know what you're dealing with. You gotta know how again how to work on you and those family. I think the support groups are awesome. When you talked about don't know how the addict would do it by themselves. Same thing with the family. I strongly urge families to get involved in some type of local family group.

Alright, here we go. From Angela. My son is threatening to walk out of rehab in another state. We said we would. We said we would financially support this. How do I handle the fear of the unknown? Wait A minute. Angela, are you. Are you saying. I think she meant to say we said we wouldn't support this.

I would assume they would say.

Pretty sure that's what you meant, Angela.

Absolutely.

I'm gonna go on that. Okay.

We deal with that all the time. Again, being parent coordinator at a rehab is that. Especially in the first 30 to 60 days, the things that your loved one will tell you about that particular rehab. You know, this place is dirty. This. Y' all sent me to a bunch of crazies. I'm the only sane one here. I'm. I'm the least drug addict. These guys are hardcore. All the stories that you'll hear, they.

Don'T feed me exactly.

I mean, it's on and on. It's almost like they, you know, they burn it. They're burning me with cigarettes. All horror stories. I would. We strongly suggest that you say that you're supporting the place that you sent him and just leave it at that. You don't have to even say anymore that we. We're supporting where you are. And if you make a decision to go, otherwise, that'll be on you. And. And certainly try to hold to that boundary and not try to get up, because, you know, normally they'll. They'll try that. They'll. They're certainly still manipulative in the first 60 days. They're. They're just now starting to get some of their. Their brain back. So they're still trying to pull buttons, push buttons to get you to. To do what they want you to do. And I would just suggest you to hold strong.

Yeah, I would, too. And even if you just. You have those conversations, and even if you can just put it off. So let's talk about tomorrow, because if you can just hold. The longer you hold them there, the more likely that is to maybe go away. And I do have a video. It's one I did a while back that's titled, like, 10 things your loved one's gonna tell you to get you to come get them out of rehab. You know, because Scott's right. You can. You can predict them. Here they come.

And, you know, I would share that with staff, because what we've learned at the rehab that I volunteer at is that nine times out of 10, they're telling the parent that. But at the rehab, they're telling everybody they love it, and they're telling. They're telling their counselor and their caseworkers that they're, you know, they're. They're. They like the place, they're involved, and they're showing it. They actually participating and doing the things. But at night they get on the phone with mom and they tell mom how terrible it is or they tell.

The counselor how terrible mom is.

Exactly right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Check your references. Yeah. Luanna says good info. Thank you for holding out hope and praying that my loved one will have strength to change. I continue to encourage, never give up. God bless. All right. Good encouraging words. All right. My 14 year old finishes 30 day residential and is not open to going to recommended IOP treatment. He cannot go to support group if he doesn't commit to IOP first. 14.

Yeah.

Wow. Man, that's rough.

Yeah. Bless your heart. Hang in there. You know, I would. I think there you do have to hold to some boundaries and try to try to the strong encouragement. But you know, again, it goes back to that thing. If they're not ready. It's hard to make an individual do something that they absolutely are not going to do. I think I would continue to go to my family meetings, go to get help for yourself. But I think that at that young age, that's tough.

It is. Because, you know, not only are you dealing with someone who has an addiction which makes them not be able to think rationally, but, you know, the 14 year old, which makes them not be able to think rationally. So it's like even if they're sober, they don't necessarily under. They just can't possibly understand the magnitude of what they're dealing with and why they would need to go to an iop.

Yeah.

So if you can't do that, then. Then I might say, and I'll try everything. Get them do it before. I would offer this other thing, but I would say something like, okay, but if you seem like you're not doing well in any kind of way, then we're going to. You gonna do that kind of almost like preemptively go ahead and get that on the table.

Yeah.

Jennifer says, while refusing professional help and sustaining from drugs, is it possible for them to transfer their addiction to something else, such as trading stock in the stock market? Seems like gambling to me.

Absolutely. You know, they do have addictive personalities, so they may, they may lay down one addiction and pick up another. And it could be video games, it could be gambling, it could be, you know, sex addict, it could be all kind of things. But we have seen that with both of our boys. Yeah.

And that happens whether or not the person's getting treatment or help or not. Like, that's, that's pretty common. And, and some of that addictive personality doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing. So I wouldn't necessarily freak out about. I have a video about that. Like, you know, it's. It's essentially a good trait. You just got to put it in the right direction.

Exactly.

Yeah. Well, thank you, Scott, for being with us. We appreciate your wisdom professionally and personally. Thanks for everybody who joined us here today. And stay tuned next, because there's a lot more videos about how to deal with an addicted loved one.

Hang in there, guys. Have a good day.