Being In A Relationship With An Addict or Alcoholic

We have a extra, extra bonus special treat for you today because we have our relationship recovery specialist on with us, Kim Garrett. And let me tell you what, the reason it's so special is because she never comes on here, and she really was nervous about today's live. So this is a special treat. Now, Kim is the one in our office who primarily deals with the partners, spouses, boyfriends, girlfriends that. That are in relationship to someone who's struggling with an addiction. And today she's gonna be here. She's gonna weigh in on managing the emotions that you go through when you're in a relationship with someone who has an addiction. And also, we're going to talk a little bit about the big dilemmas that you face and all the really hard choices that you have to make. So, Kim, of the people that you see normally, what are the big emotions that give people the hardest time?

Anger. Anger's a big one. And once you get past the anger, there's a lot of guilt. There's a lot of loneliness. There's a lot of pressure, like, how do I handle this? How do I keep family intact? How do I not make them worse, but protect the kids? So just a lot of pressure in that. Say, those are just a lot of confusion. I would definitely put confusion because most partners want to make the very. I shouldn't say most. All partners want to make the very best decision in every single moment. And so that puts a ton of pressure on them, which really feeds that anger, that angst, and that guilt.

And I have to imagine it's made worse because there is no good decision. Right. Everything is a rock and a hard place. Everything is almost like a. What's the least worst choice I can make? And that's what makes it so hard. And you always feel like no matter what choice you make, like, whether it's, you know, we'll talk about the dilemmas in a minute, but whether it's like, do I say, do I go? Like, do I let my kids be around this person? You always feel like you're being wrong or bad or.

Or you're just.

You just feel guilty, right? From that all the time. Right. And even.

Even, yes, but even when things are good, there's that constant narrative in the.

Back of their mind.

Like, just, I bring this up. Do I say anything? Should I engage in this good moment? Am I enabling? And so it's rather, things are really good, really bad, neutral, silent, loud. That narrative is always going in the back of their mind.

I'm really glad you brought that up, because it's true. I think when you're going through this, you can't even in the good times, you can't even enjoy it because you feel like if you do, you're letting your guard down. And it's almost like you think you're going to jinx yourself or something and that it's going to come back. So you even suppress anything good feeling that you could be experiencing. Right. Like. Like maybe they're just out of treatment and they're doing really good. But you can't even let that be because you're constantly like, they're gonna relapse. You know, if I let my guard down, it's gonna happen. It's almost like a superstition.

It is. It's like if I could visualize it, and not for everybody, but it's almost like spouses or partners feel like they're in the director's chair where they have to direct the family at all times. And that's super exhausting. And that pressure just feels really heavy.

For a lot of them.

And that's where the guilt comes in. Just that internal guilt. Did I do this right? You know, if I. If I give attention over here, then I'm neglecting the kids. So it's. It's just this constant orchestrating dilemma, stress, pressure, anger.

Well, it's got to be like you're constantly in the protector mode because, you know, sometimes it's like you're trying to protect the person who has the addiction. You're trying to protect them from losing their job. You're trying to protect them from other stressors because you think that might negatively impact them. You're trying to protect the rest of the family from feeling all the stress of it. You're trying to protect the kids. And so I think that's what makes you feel like you have to be in the director trials. Not even. Sometimes I think people use the word codependency or they say you have control issues. I'm like, no. When you are in a relationship with this, it gives you control issues. Like you don't have a choice. It's not like you just love to be controlling. No. It's just that the other person, your partner, doesn't pick up their fair share of the puzzle pieces of responsibility and isn't reliable, which forces you to have to pick them up. I would even add on to that.

Not only do they not pick up their puzzle pieces, but oftentimes it's almost like you put some pieces together and then they come mess it up.

Oh, even Worse. Yeah. I've got two kids, and now I've.

Got this other kid that I feel I'm married to half the time, and they're messing up what I'm doing. And so it's. It's just. I mean, chaos. Chaos is the chaotic. Is. I would say most partners feel really chaotic most of the time. Right.

It's. It's like navigating a storm.

Yep.

Yep. 24 7.

Even when it's. Even when it's calm, it's constantly looking for, when's the next surge?

Now, what do you think are the biggest dilemmas? And when I. When I say that, I mean, you know, like, all those really hard choices that you get faced, with, what are the biggest dilemmas that people have to face?

I would say the most common one is, do I stay or do I go? And how will I know? There's a whole bunch of dilemmas that go underneath that umbrella, but I would say, do I stay or do I go? What do I tell the kids? How do I protect the kids? How do I, you know, something with the kids? And then finances. How do I protect myself? And actually, I would say with finances, it's more than just, you know, your money in your bank account. It's what happens if we get hit with a wrongful death suit? What happens? You know, should I put them on the mortgage? Should I buy another house with this person? I mean, it's just all the financial decisions.

Yeah. How do you financially protect yourself and your family? Right. Because obviously addiction causes problems in every area, and finances is at the top of the list of areas it causes problems in. Right. Okay. And then. And then I think there are small, everyday decisions too. Right, Kim? Like, you find the empty bottles.

Are you.

You see the charge that's on the debit card or credit card that wasn't supposed to be there. And then you're like, do I bring it up? And it feels like it's because, like, you feel like if you don't bring it up, then you're probably just enabling and you're just ignoring and you're letting them get away with it. And then if you do bring it up, then you're just playing the bad guy. Right. And that's what I mean is like, constantly, no good decision. You feel bad either way.

Right?

Right.

100. So it.

For.

For partners and spouses, I think it's. They're just constantly. That narrative I was talking about earlier is just always going, just like you said, like, what's the sex you're charged for? And, and so they just don't know how to handle that a lot of times because they are always, you know, and the other thing I want to point out to that. Sorry, I didn't finish that sentence, but you figure you've got all these other voices that we haven't even talked about. Your sister, your mom, your best friend, your neighbor. And so they're in your head basically saying, well, why didn't. Why, why don't you just take the beer out of the fridge? Or why don't you take their deb. And so you've got all that in this side and you got all this going on in this side as far as what's happening in your house. And so again, it just goes back to that constant chaotic pressure.

Oh, yeah, I'm glad you said that. Because it creates that doubt and second guessing too, right? Like it's not hard enough. And then every decision you make, you feel like, was that the wrong decision? Then you have plenty of people trying to tell you that it was no matter. Like maybe it's the person with the addiction telling you that you're doing wrong, you know, that you're, you're causing the problems that whatever. Or were outside. Like you're talking about friends and family. Or they'll say things like, why don't you just leave them? That's the worst, right? That. That is the equivalent of why don't you just quit? It's the same. It's the equivalent version on the family side. Why don't you just leave them just for your job? I tell you what I do, if that's my man, I'll just leave. I would put up that crap. But you, but you've got a mortgage with this person and kids with this person, and you love this person.

When they're good, they're good. Like with addicts that a lot of people don't understand is when they are good, they are like magical, magnificent people. When they're good, yeah.

But when they're bad, right? And I can attest to that because you guys know that I'm the one in the office that usually sees the person with the social feeling problem. They're fabulous in here. They're charming. Most of the ones I see like, work hard, they're successful, they say the right things. And so when you're in a relationship with one, you know those good parts too, right? It's not just the bad part, Right?

Right. And it didn't start out bad. Most of the people, it did not start out bad. You didn't you know, you didn't build this life with someone with their bad version, so it makes it a lot more tricky. And then you've got the committee over here. I wouldn't put up with that. And you just need to leave them. You just need to divorce them. And. And so then you.

You.

I call it a committee in my mind. But, yeah, like, yeah, you tell your committee when you're stressed or when you're hurt or when you're confused. So you. You divulge all this stu when things are rough, and then they. They generally make a hard line on what you need to do, and then they just regurgitate that back to you. So you get stuck again with all of this chaotic pressure, right. Which leads to loneliness because then you stop telling your committee, and then you're isolated.

Right. And you. You stop talking about it because you. You doubt yourself saying yes, but also because people are constantly telling you you're not doing it.

Right. Right.

You're making the wrong decisions. No matter what choices you make. If you. If you don't leave, people make you feel like you're weak, you should have left. If you do leave, people make you feel like you're a total piece of crap. You, like, left your wife or whatever when they were down. And, like, what happened to sickness and health? You know, and then you come on and you watch dang put the Shovel down videos, and then we're. We're telling you to, you know, not play the bad cop and give them chances and stuff, and it just makes.

It even more worse. Right, right, right. Lots of advice out there.

Right. And one of the things I was sharing yesterday, Kim and I share this a lot with clients is sometimes the family members. They'll book a consultation with me or whatever, and I can feel myself doing this, and I. But I can't stop it, even though I know I'm doing it. But they'll call me. They'll want help for themselves, boundaries or support. And I'm like, oh, I bet they're thinking this. I bet they're going to do this next. Because I can only think about what the addictive person is thinking and what's the right thing to say. And that's where you and Campbell are so good, because your job is to align with them and look out for their interest and understand their dilemma.

Right.

And you guys are so much better with that. Every time I try to do it, I'm like, I know they came on here and they said, this is what I need, and I'm not giving it to them anytime through.

Through the attic size. That makes sense.

And then I'm like, well, what did they say yesterday? Well, what did they think about that?

Right. Trying to get ahead of that.

And so that's what you do for the spouse, is you help them make the decisions, but you do it from a perspective of understanding the complicated dilemma that they're in. Whereas I think other outside people, they want to oversimplify the situation. They want to say, you should stick it out, you should go. They want to make it just so black and white.

Right.

And it's just never that way.

That's a good point. Because that the outside people, they do. They want to simplify it. Because what people in general, what we do if we don't watch it, is we want to put a separator between us and someone else's dilemma because it causes anxiety. What if I was in that situation? Right. And so they'll minimize it. And that's about their own ability to handle intense emotions, not yours. So when they're constantly giving you this, you should leave, or I wouldn't put up with that, or why do you keep doing blah, blah, blah, blah? It's hard for the partner not to internalize that and not to personalize that. And so that's. I spend a lot of time talking with partners about that. Like, whatever they're saying to you is not about you, it's about them.

Right. And they get stressed by the situation, and they just want to jump to some kind of easy, like I said, like, black and white, super simple conclusion. And it's just never that way. There's so many little factors that come into play. And I think that's one of the things about you and about Campbell is you understand all those other pieces, so you can hear it differently. Right. Whereas when you talk to other people about it, it's just like you end up leaving feeling more frustrated and less supported and less heard.

Because a lot of the. A lot of the feedback that I think people get, or, you know, from wives specifically, you know, because I work with a lot of women, or you need to take more baths, or you need to go for a walk, oh, my God, take better care of yourself. And it's just like, that's not. That doesn't do it. That doesn't do anything. Like, it just makes you more angry because you're thinking about everything that happens.

I know. And. And just so you know, like, people tell that to the people that are trying to overcome addiction, too. Like, I had somebody here this morning that was like, I know. People just say, like, you should meditate. You should go for a walk. I was like, I'm not gonna tell you that. That's dumb. Like, you can think about meditating right.

Now when your brain is screaming.

Right, Right. Plus, I'm like, right now, you're just getting through it. That's what I told my person. I'm like, distract yourself if you can. Right? Yep. Right.

So, yeah.

Yeah. Let's look and see who all is here with us live. And if you're watching in the replay, we definitely want you to be part of this conversation, too. I always go back and read every comment and try to answer as many as possible. So let's see. We've got a lot of people watching this live. If any of you guys have a question, a concern, or maybe you're just identifying and you're relating to what's being said, and you've got a story about that. Let's see. Hey, Benner Benners here. He says he drank for 16 years. Let me tell you, if your partner don't want help, leave them now. Banner, you're doing the thing. People recovery, y' all worse because you try to oversimplify it. And you know what's interesting? Sometimes, especially viewers. I've had a lot of viewers that are in recovery, and now they're in a relationship with somebody who's actively struggling. Oh, my God. Then you're like, you've been on both sides of the fence, and that complicates it.

Right? Like, really, definitely.

But the reason I think, like, Benner and people in recovery say that is because they know what the sketch brain is thinking and doing. Right.

You.

You know, the manipulation, you know, like the sketchy stuff that's going on. And that's why I think people in recovery are. Are the first people to say, just leave. Just kick them out. Just. Yep.

Yeah.

Yeah. Because you know what you were like when you were in that state.

Right.

Sarah sue says she always feels like she's holding her breath. That's a really good way to put it.

That's a great way to put it, because it's true. You're just constantly. Well, and when we hold our breath, it's actually. It's a. It's a trauma response. And so we also tighten the lower part of our body as a trauma response. And so you figure when you're constantly holding your breath and tightening the lower part of your body, you are. You know, people say, like, walking on eggshells, you're just anticipating the next move.

So embracing yourself.

Yes. Which, like, embrace makes the family really reactive. Because if I'm over here, then anytime I hear anything, it's like, what's that? So I'm super hyper reactive, which my loved one is going to feed off of that.

Right?

They're going to be reactive even if nothing's going on. So then all this angst in the family is created and the kids are just going to spin off of that.

Right? Because they may just be coming to you with kid things or ask a question or tell you something, but you're so tense and you're so on edge, that energy just starts to. To permeate and you don't know how to not live that way. I mean, when you feel like every time you turn your head, you're getting punched, how do you not walk around? Brace.

You don't. You don't know.

You don't not walk around. That's right.

We are humans and we are designed to survive. And this is like, this is part of our brain that we have no control over. So you know when you're walking around with your holding your breath, like, you don't have any control over that. And so, you know, and that, that is where taking better care of yourself is important. But I would say that taking better care of yourself in those moments are holding boundaries and knowing when you need. I'm a big, big, big fan of knowing your own capacity and getting out of there when you don't have it. Right.

Know when they're. When they're at the end of the well, the bucket is dry sort of thing.

When you're. Yeah, when you. Not them, you, like, they may be having the best day of their life and you're just like, seriously?

Yeah.

Like, I'm over here in the pits and you're having a great day. Like, your own capacity is shot at that point.

It's like you're. You're worried about when are they going to hit their bottom. When you need to be taken care of. Like, am I right? How close am I to my bottom?

Right.

Right?

Yeah.

Marion says I gave up too much, too much work, and it made me lose myself. Taking control of my life and happiness, man. What's the secret to doing that? So share with us and all the people watching what. What was the most important thing that helped you get back in control of your own life?

Right?

Because we hear people say things like that all the time, but then it's like, well, how the world do I do it? Okay, I. In what? Tell me what to do. Right. Let's see. Michelle says, thank you for this presentation. Anger is so hard because you feel so frustrated and then sad. I wish addicts could really understand what their addiction does to others that love them.

Do you think they do? From an addict standpoint? Like, speaking for the. Do you think they understand, like, what she's saying?

No, I really don't. And. And I think that that's for a lot of reasons on a biology level, just because what's going on in their brain, they're in a survival mode. And when you're in a survival mode, you're just thinking about that. You're just surviving from one day to the next, so your awareness is down. And then there are also just some different brain functions that don't allow you to see or weigh consequences the same way. So, no, I really. I don't think they do. I really don't.

I don't think they do either. And working with. From a repair standpoint, that seems to be a really. A really big hurdle to get over once the couple has entered recovery, once they decided to make the marriage work and kind of moving forward, that.

And they make in after. And I'm not saying they never do. I'm just saying when they're in it, yeah, they don't. And not only that, but y'.

All.

Y' all really not gonna like this. Okay. Not only do they not realize how badly they're hurting everybody, but in their.

Mind, is your fault.

In their mind, you deserve it. Well, maybe they don't think you deserved it, but they think they're making you the bad guy roll. And. And part of that is the psychology of addiction, which is, how do I justify what I'm doing? How do I make myself able to do the things I need to do to keep my addiction going? Right. So then I got to tell myself, well, the reason I don't go home and be with my family is because my wife nags me all the time. That's why I'm at the bar. If she wasn't like that, I wouldn't be there.

Right.

So not only do they not realize.

But it's worse than that. I don't know how many times a week I say to a partner, you're the number one target.

Yes.

So you need to get out of that role.

That's right. If you're the parent or the spouse, you are the number one, like, bad guy. And it's. The reason is because your presence reminds them, and they really do. Deep down inside, they really feel shameful, and they Know, and they know they're making decisions that they don't want to make. And that's all they have to have all these psychological mechanisms. It's like their way of self medicating the shame. Let's see here, Sarah. Sarah, sue was giving us an answer here on our question.

Let's see what she says.

Hard to move on when you have children, Marion. I don't want my son to grow up without a father. Yes, Sarah. So that's like one of those dilemmas you face, right. Like you've got a kid with this person. Yep. There's no. If. If you stay with them, you feel like you're keeping your kid in a bad situation. If you leave, you feel like you're leaving your kid without a father. And that's. Oh, that's just the hard part about it.

That's one of the ultimate dilemmas.

Right. And those are the kind of problems that Kim helps people solve. Now, it's not like she has a very simplistic answer, stay or go. But what Kim does, and this is what you going to be doing in your partners group, your empowered partners group, is giving people almost like a formula or an equation or a way of making decisions. Now, you have to plug in your own factors and situation into that. Like I said, there's no one answer. No one can tell you stay, go, whatever, like, but there, but there are ways of decision making, like, almost like decision making models. And that's what you do in the. In the spouse's recovery group and which I'll remind you, is open for new members this week. It's only open until Friday at midnight. You have to get in. And we won't reopen it for new members until the fall. So the parent group and the spouse group are accepting new members until Friday. I did put the links in the description in case you're interested. And Kim is the one that leads the partners group. Yep.

Yeah.

Now, do you have to be married to the person to be in there?

No.

No. Okay.

It's spouses or partners.

Spouses. Partners. Like you're. This is your primary relationship. Right. This is the person you're in a relationship with. Right. Then it counts, right?

Yeah.

All right, let's see.

Oh, I clicked on the wrong thing.

Here we go. As many of us feel like we can protect our kids better if we are with them all of the time, we stay to protect them rather than risk splitting custody. Oh, that's another piece.

So glad you said that. That's a huge piece. Yes, I can. Oh, my Gosh, that's. You know, if. If I get divorced and I'm, you know, at least I can keep my kids safe. At least I can keep an eye on them. You know, he would fight me for custody, or she would fight me for custody, or I live in a state where it would be, you know, dual custody. That's a. That's so important to recognize because that does not fit under a simplistic model.

Right. I was hearing. I was. These guys on here now. I'm always, like, watching the true crime shows, and I was watching some true crime something. And this woman, she was in this, like, terrible, abusive relationship. And this guy. This wasn't an addiction. This was just evilness. Okay. Like meanness. And she said, you know, people want to say, why did you stay? And I was thinking the same thing myself.

I was thinking, why did you stay?

And she said, because if I divorced him, and then I know I've got to send my kids over there every other weekend with no protection. And I was like, I didn't think about that. Like.

Yep. Yeah.

There's no easy answers, which is where.

Like, a lot of times, I think being able to find peace with whatever to say. I shouldn't say a lot of time. Every time. Trying to find peace with whatever decision you make. And that's why nobody can tell you stay, go do this. Because that peace comes from inside of you. Right. And you have to find that you.

Know when you're there. Yep. You know when you're there, you'll know it. You won't be able to not know it. You'll be screaming at you. Yep. Right. Let's see what Justine says. I feel like I had to make a tough decision recently because he kept running away from our relationship every time there was a disagreement versus facing it. Right.

Yep.

And when you're dealing with someone in addiction, that's always the case. Like, even if they're not leaving the relationship, they're running away from solving the problems because they're using the substance or the behavior, addiction or whatever to cope.

Yep.

So they're constantly numbing.

Yep.

And so.

And that, you know, based on what Justine said, too, it's important to recognize going back to your capacity, like, if this is the beginning of a relationship, or I shouldn't say the beginning, but the beginning of addiction in a relationship, you probably have more capacity for it. But if we're going on year five, year seven, it's like, your capacity for that's probably pretty low.

Oh, yeah. You have all kind of empathy, like, the first bad thing that happens.

Right.

The first rehab stint. Right. But on the fifth one, it's a different story. It's a different story.

Or when kids become involved, or when the kids get old enough to know what's going on. So it's.

You get exhausted. You do.

You get super exhausted.

Yeah. Oh, before I put Hillary's comment, I will say this. Occasionally I run into someone who they're. They got married to someone who has an addiction. And they'll say, well, they told me that they struggle with an addiction in the past. Or they told me that this was going on. And then they. And then I was like, yeah, but you can't understand it. They may have told you, but you didn't really understand what you were getting into unless, like, literally, like, you've been in it before. You've either had an addiction or you've been in a relationship closely. Because a lot of times we hear someone say that, and we think, oh, that's in their past. Or we think, oh, I'm just gonna love them.

They're just gonna. Or they're so wise and so insightful and they know themselves so well.

Oh, yeah, that's a good one.

Right?

And then you feel like, oh, I got tricked. Yeah, that's what you feel like. All right. Hillary says, I struggle because I'm recovering. I have 14 years clean and have gotten into a relationship where when covet hit, there was a relapse and active addiction came to light. Are you saying, Hillary, like, the person you're with, their active addiction came to light? I think that's what. I think that's what you're saying, Hillary. Yeah. And I'm telling you, when you've been on the other side of it, I think doesn't make it any easier.

No.

People think that because they've had an addiction, like, it's going to make it easier. It doesn't make it. You still have the same dilemmas and maybe even worse because you really know. I. I would say you really know what you're dealing with.

I would also say it's pro. There's another element there where your own path can be weaponized.

Oh, I didn't think of that. Well, And.

And I get that a lot. Where, you know, partners used to party together, and then one stopped.

Oh, I hear that from. My. People say that. They. They say to me, that person with the addiction says, I didn't change. I was always this way. We used to go out together. They're the one that changed. And I'm like, okay, yeah, but that.

Was when you're in college and now you're 43 and you have the kids. Right?

Yeah.

So. So I do think when you have your own history with addiction and you know, you probably, it probably does get weaponized. Oh, you're just a know it all or you think you're better than I am or oh, this works for you and it doesn't work for me. So I'm sure a lot of that is makes it harder or maybe even.

Like don't project your stuff on me. Just because you're not, it doesn't mean I'm right. I didn't even think about the weaponizing thing. That was a good point. All right, let's see here. Catch it. Property management consultant says yes. I can't talk to my parents any longer about my 23 year old son. It's just hurtful. Just can't listen to their advice. I was Darby saying that. Yeah.

Yep.

Because people try to over simplify it and it's never easy. Right.

And, and I know this is definitely more Campbell's on there, but with grandparents and parents, again, it's that barricade. Like if, if I can magically think this thing, then as a grandparent I can think that my, my grandchild can be safe. So if you can just do this and this and this, then the kid's going to be okay.

Oh yeah.

And partners get that a lot too. And it's that magical thinking just to simplify it. Right.

So it's like from, if you're in the partner stance, it can come from the in laws or even your own parents. Yeah. And, and they may be hearing about it, but they're not living in it. Right. And, and it's hard to even describe the difficulty and the complexity of things. And so you, you feel like, you know, you're constantly getting these pieces of advice and you feel like you're getting judged. Yep.

A lot of judgment. A lot of judgment. Yeah.

All right, everybody, thank you so much for hanging out. Maybe not. Maybe she's already agreed to it, so we're holding her to it. Kim is coming back tomorrow, so if you want to hear more from Kim, be back here tomorrow at the same time, which is 1pm Eastern. And Kim will be back on live and come with your questions. All right, we'll see you then. Bye. Bye.