Can an Addict in Recovery Ever Learn To Drink Moderately?

Okay, everybody, we have a controversial topic for you today. We have our family recovery expert Campbell Manning with us here again, and we're going to be covering the topic of can. Is it possible for someone who's had an addiction, who's in recovery to ever be able to go back and drink moderately or drink socially? However you want to say, say it. And we get this successfully. Thank you. Right. Successfully. We get this question all the time. I know. I get it from the patient, and I'm sure you get it from the family as well, right, Campbell?

I get it a lot from the dads. They really mourn that they won't be able to watch a football game with their son and drink a beer or that they won't be able to have a glass of champagne at their child's wedding. Of course, with COVID we don't have football or weddings, so maybe we won't get that question anymore.

Maybe there is no more social, so there won't be drinking socially. Fair enough. Hey, I want to say hey to Brian and Shannon and Tommy who are with us, and we're going to talk a little bit. We're going to give you some information, and then we're going to take questions. And so if you guys want to go ahead and put the questions in the chat feed, then what I'll do is I'll go back through once we get the information out, and then I'll answer some specific questions. So, Campbell, before you say anything, I just want to say this time, it makes me nervous. It's.

It's a little scary.

I get a little nervous. Hey, Donna. I get a little nervous.

We're gonna get a lot of hate comments.

Well, I'm getting used to that.

Don't sell them to me.

Yeah, I won't show them to you. You're not used to that. I'm used to that. But I'm not so much nervous about the hate comments. I'm just more nervous because I don't want to put someone at risk. Right. I don't want to give that information. So. So lead us into this tiny step by tiny step.

Well, I think the first thing, if you are even you or your loved one, is entertaining the thought of potentially trying to drink socially, successfully, whatever term you want to put on it. You know, I think that for the people I know that have gone that way and have been successful, is they talked about it a lot with other people in recovery, with their sponsors, with their counselor. It was not just a spur of the moment of y' all have a Beer at a lunch, you know, restaurant.

Oh, my gosh, that's such a good point. And it's not just like, I'm secretly thinking, I can do this.

No, no, no.

This is currently trying it. Because secrecy is not that one being.

A mistake, I would say. Oh, close to 100%. No. This is well thought out, well articulated and well hurdled, if you will. Like, you know, like, we spend a lot of time with our clients saying, you know, how would you know if you were having a problem? So preoccupation with that, like, if.

If you. If.

If someone who tried to drink started to think they're thinking about it more than they should, that's a red flag. Stop. And either stop or go back and regroup with your people that helped you make the decision. And definitely you want someone who's going to know that you're doing it for accountability.

Okay, Are there some circumstances, Campbell, where you would say, just a flat no, that's not gonna work? Yes. Are there some, like, immediate rule outs? What would those situations?

Most of the time, I would have a flat out no. First of all, if you're early in recovery, and by that I mean, like, less than five years, I would say don't. Two, if you're. If you were an alcoholic or alcohol had been, you know, high on your list of drugs of choice.

No, no.

And then also, and this is sort of the biggest thing is if you're not in a space in your life where you have a lot to lose that matters to you, because those are the things that, you know, I love to talk about my serotonin, but that pride from the serotonin of maybe having a job you loved or having, you know, earned a degree that you've worked really hard on, being in a relationship with someone you love, maybe having a dog, owning a home, a car, you pay for enough of those things. And solid relationships around you, like family, friends, like, so your serotonin and oxytocin pride and connection cups are as full as full can be.

Right.

If that's not the answer. Hard no.

So essentially, kind of what you're saying is it's very risky, and there are some circumstances where it's a definite no. Which being, like, if you're less than five years into recovery, if you're trying to think about this on your own and do this in your own game plan sneakily, or if you're not in a good place in your life.

Correct.

Those are no's.

Yeah. I always say they're really big dice to roll and Is it even worth rolling them?

Yes. That's such an important question. Yeah.

So I. To me, a lot of the time, a high number is. It's just not worth rolling it. So I. I would say that it's rare to be able to do this.

Want to say hey to Donna and Tommy? We got a lot of people on here. And Shannon, Stephanie, and a special hey to Taylor. She sent us a super chat. I don't know if you know what a super chat is, Campbell, but it's, like, where people can, like, donate, like, little increments of money just to support your channel. So somebody donated for you?

Well, I think they're donating them for my dress fund for the fall.

Is that what it is for your dress?

Yeah. Just put your thumbs up or your heart.

So she knows.

Just give me the money.

Thank you, Taylor, for the super chat. That's our first one we've ever got. That's pretty cool. Oh, wow.

That's fun.

Yeah. That's exciting, isn't it? That is, yeah. So basically, we've ruled it down to, like, a really small category of people under a really certain set of circumstances. And we're still saying, be very careful. It's risky. Okay. So we're not saying no.

It's not a late decision. The people that I know who have done it have really talked about it. They got a lot of advice, a lot of feedback, and then they've got a lot of. And the people I know well who are doing it constantly say, you know, are you comfortable with this? Do you think this is going well? Like, they're constantly sort of taking their own temperature on that. And I think being aware of how often you do it, too. Like, people I know are doing it don't do it very often.

Right.

Like maybe a family beach trip or a holiday, and that'll have, you know, a beer on the beach. Not don't drag down a cooler with 400 beers and just whoop it up.

Right. Yeah. Say hey to Sarah, who just joined us. Hey, Sarah. Oh, she says she's happy to donate to your dress fund. Campbell always has cute dresses. She's like a little bar where you can just dress her up. So one of the things I always ask my clients about this, because usually my clients are asking me this, like, early in recovery or they're not even completely sober yet, you know. Right. But one of the things I always ask is I would say, okay, look, let's talk about what? Moderate drinking or drinking socially or just having a couple of beers. Looks like I'M saying, listen, be for real. What's having two beers gonna do for you? Is that even fun? Would that even do anything for you? It's kind of like, let's be like. I don't say, like, no, you can't. But I'm saying, like, let's be honest. Like, what is. Is drinking moderately going to be something that you even want to do? So I think that's a question you need to ask yourself, too.

Yeah, I think that's a really good point. My motto on potato chips. Do I really just want six or seven, or am I gonna eat the whole bag? Don't touch the bag. Right.

It's easier to drink or none than a little, is what I tell most people. So. Right. So I think there's just a lot of pieces to consider, and I think the thing that you've said so far that I. That I just love is the whole, like, don't do it in secrecy. Secrecy and darkness. Because if. Even if it's just two beers, but you're doing it in secrecy and darkness right there, like, it's not. It's like, not good. Scary. Yeah.

Yeah, I agree.

I'm gonna.

That brings you sort of to the like, like, what's. How does the family handle that? Because that. That's gonna freak out. Other than those dads who, you know, are desperate for their kid to have a beer while they watch football, it's gonna freak most family members out. The person that they love, that they've sent to treatment after treatment or whatever's gone on in the trauma of addiction and loving people is. It's going to push that button hard and fast, and then that response could be very problematic. So I think that's another reason to be talking about it openly. Hey, I'm thinking about doing this. Here's why. What do you think?

So if you're the family member and you're hearing that, like, let's say you're the spouse or you're the parent, and your loved one tells you that, do you have some guidance on how the. The family needs to respond to that? Because I know on the inside, it's like smashed alarm, red lights, like, emergency situation going on in their head.

Well, again, I think it depends on how well you think the other person is doing. So, you know, when this happened in my life, the person was doing so well that I was like, I know that they're not going to throw all that away. Like, I feel pretty good that they thought this through and they're an adult, so. All right. I'll give it some thought. But if your loved one is coming to you and you don't think they're doing well, like they're just, maybe they're eeking by but you just don't feel it, then you're just going to push on your button. But I think you need to be honest and say, I'm really not comfortable with that. I think, I think you need to tell them why and then maybe say, you know, we're getting, everything's going so well and we're so happy. Why would we, why would we throw that away?

And if the person can't hear that.

Probably best, then I think that's a problem.

Yeah.

Unless the person had these really good, like, reason to say, well, I hear you, but I'm going to do it anyway because I'm going to my college reunion and I'm staying in a house with 10 friends and I just want to have one or two beers on Saturday afternoon while we're watching the game. You know, if they had a reason instead of just, I think it would.

Be.

Something to do.

Right. I don't know.

But I think, I think they need to hear you.

I think if it's like if the loved one is a really important person in this person's life and they're choosing to do it anyway, even though it's going to dysregulate that relationship, you already got one of them little check marks for problematic behavior right there. But you haven't even done it yet.

Yeah, I agree. If it's going to damage relationship, then obviously that's important. Like you're saying a hallmark for addiction.

So. Right.

It would be a bad sign if they said, well, bite me, I'm doing it.

Right. It's complicated. But I do think families in general, no matter what your loved one says to you, it's really important not to get super reactive. No matter if it's that or something else they bring to you because you want them to be able to talk to you. So you're going to have to like respond to this conversation in a way that's a conversation, right? Yeah.

I think that's true of all important conversations with especially children. You know how I like to talk about non hierarchical conversations. This absolutely needs to be one of those just like premarital sex or some of those conversations you don't want to have with your children. But if you react like there's no way you're getting birth control, then that conversation is not going to be had with you again. So I Do think you have to remember that. That at this point, you're not in charge of the conversation. You just need to ask questions, come at it from more of a curiosity, and then express your feelings while honoring their side of the conversation. But that's true of all hard conversations.

Yeah, I totally agree with that. I'm gonna scroll up Campbell here, and we've got a bunch of people on here and a few questions. Okay. Hey, Melanie, I didn't say hey to you. And Brenda, Sarah, Christina, Donna, we got all kinds of people in here. Okay, let me get us a question. Brian has a question. He says, I guess even if I could, then why would I. It's not necessary for life. Also, the misery that came from, it would never be worth the risk. I think that's a valid point. What do you think about that?

I think that's solid.

And that's.

Again, that's why, like, if alcohol was your problem, there's that. That's 100%. You're right, Brian.

If.

But if you, you know, smoked weed in high school and then became a pain pill guy and alcohol was never your problem, I don't know that you would be able to think of the misery that it brought you, because it didn't bring you any misery. So I think those are more the people that we're talking about that could maybe potentially be successful. But, yeah, I mean, I don't understand why you'd go back to anything that brought you misery.

Right. I think one of the things I recommend. There's a book that I like. It's called this Naked Mind, and it's about this girl named Annie Grace. And she goes through and really talks about, like, our belief systems about alcohol. Like, you know, we think it makes life more fun. We think it makes me funnier, it makes me smarter, it makes me more social, it makes me more creative. We have all these thoughts, and really she sort of goes through and look at what is the reality of that. Is that the truth? And so I think that's super helpful, too. So maybe one of the things is, okay, you have to read Annie Grace's book first. If you still think. If you still think it's bringing you something.

Well, to me, that's. That's a sign that you shouldn't do it at all. Because if you're using anything to cope or to bring or to change, then that's not a good idea ever. If you're doing it because you enjoy the flavor of a glass of champagne, that's a different thing, I think. I mean, that's one of the three legs of the stool that addiction sits on is a preoccupation because it's a coping technique or a change in within yourself that you believe enhances yourself.

Yeah. If it feels like I'm being deprived and I need it because that's probably a bad sign.

Or I had a bad day and I need it because that's not a good sign. That's not.

That's a good reason. Yeah.

That's a reason to not try it.

Yeah.

Tough. Definitely.

Let's see. Let me grab us another question. We have a question from Brenda about. She wants to know if we can touch on the idea of marijuana maintenance or casual use of that. Boy, that's so common when that's alcohol and marijuana. That's the bane of my existence. Campbell, I'm gonna go.

In my opinion, I. I've seen one client be so far, and I'm going to emphasize so far successful on marijuana use. But marijuana usually, not always, but is the drug that most kids start on that starts up those stairs. So to me, that's going to lead you back up the stairs pretty quick.

Right. I feel like with marijuana use, it's like. I mean, we see the extreme cases, so I want to say, like, I don't know anyone that uses it casually. I'm sure there are. I just don't know them, but. Well.

It'S in the marijuana anymore. So if you were a pain pill guy and you get a bunch of marijuana laced with that, you're screwed.

Right? Yeah, I just think, like, people use it now. It's so easy. Like with the cartridges, the vape pens, all this stuff that, like, people don't even just. It's not like I smoked a joint with my friends at the party. It's like when they're using it, they're using. They're smoking it like cigarettes. And I include edibles and all the forms of it, but that probably I would be. I never say never on anything, but I would probably be slightly more leery on that than I would on the other.

I would be very against that in a session. If a kid brought that to me.

If a kid. What about an adult?

I don't know. I don't know any adults that have ever asked me that question because. Well, except the one. I gave that guy a hard no. He went around me proving me wrong, but.

Okay. Right. All right, let's see. I'm going to slide down to our comments. Debbie has a question. Is it possible that through not using your drug of choice and losing your inhibitions, you'll return to your drug of choice. So basically, Debbie's asking, can it lead back?

Absolutely. We hear this all the time with the kids are like, coming here. They're doing their bargaining. Well, I won't do pain pills, but I'll just smoke marijuana. I'm like, well, you can try that. But most likely is in a couple weeks, there won't be enough marijuana in your system in the world, I mean, to keep all those pain pill receptors happy. So my guess is, or so that takes them back. And then we've also seen lots of people who say, well, I went to the party and I drank a bunch, and then I ended up taking Xanax, but I had no intention of taking Xanax. So, yeah, totally lower your inhibitions.

Right. And I do want to sort of emphasize that what we're talking about here is years down the road. You know, if it's. It's. It's a while down the road. You have been clean and sober. Your life is going well. When we mostly hear this question is when people are still actively using and they're. They're literally wanting to give up this one thing and keep this thing. That's a no go. That doesn't. I've never seen it work.

No, never.

Okay. Yeah, about that all the time. Well, thank you guys for joining us. Anybody that wants to maybe process this particular topic with Campbell, if you've got a concern, I will put the link in the description of the YouTube version of this video about how to schedule a consult with Campbell, if you'd like to do that, or any other topics especially related to like parenting, because that's. That's Campbell's niche. And you can hear and learn more about the serotonin issue in our video release this week, which I'll put up here. I'll link it up here after we get off as the end screen. Thank you so much. Bye, everybody. Guys.