Dealing with An ADDICTED SPOUSE

So, Felice, how long have you been married to LT?

Married 12 years. Together 14 years.

Okay. And so did LT already have a substance abuse problem when you met him?

No, no, no. So he had told me about his history with meth addiction and stuff prior to when I met him. And when I met him, he was fresh and clean, and the only thing that he ever did was smoke weed. That wasn't an issue. Okay, that's why I hesitate. No, because he did smoke, but it wasn't a problem.

Right. But it wasn't like you walked into the situation in like, full blown addiction mode or anything like that.

Right. Right. He had his life together. He had two boys. He was raising most gorgeous boys I'd ever seen, Job. And like, I was like, oh, cool, this guy's awesome.

Like.

Yeah.

And you knew he had had, like, a history where he had had some problems in the past, but I'm guessing it's a. It's one thing to hear about it, it's another thing to witness it. I'm guessing.

Yeah. So. Yeah. Because the. The guy he would tell me about was just this mythical guy in these stories, because it was nothing like the guy that I knew. Like, I knew was this awesome, amazing dad and just had his stuff together. He had a house like. Like this must have just been some crazy thing that you did in your past.

And now you were young and you were wild.

Yeah.

In your head. Okay. And you got your life together. And then when did you start to see little inklings of trouble? Like, when did things start to brew?

So he. He smoked weed for a while, and it, you know, weed is. It kept him nice and calm, and that's who I knew. But then he had to quit when he got a government job because they did drug testing. And then that's when he went from weed to alcohol. And then the alcohol would go kind of up and down. Like, he'd drink on the weekends, and then he'd drink every night. And then we'd be like, all right, that's enough drinking. We'll stop. We'd stop for a while and then do it again. Start on the weekends, and then it would increase and they'd stop for a while. And that happened for a few years. And then three years ago, before my boy. Because my boy was in an accident. But three years ago, right before that is when I really started seeing it was like a problem because I've never, ever seen him blackout drunk. He'd never stumble. He always held his liquor well. But that was the point where he'd start to stumble and would have to help him in the house. And I was about when he fell down the stairs.

And you really started showing itself then. Yeah. So let me. Oh, I want to say hey to Marilyn, who's saying hey.

Hey here. Thank you.

Hopefully my microphone's a little better now. And then Ashley's got a comment, says her husband's an addict and he was when I married him. But after a year, I don't know if I can stay. He's relapsed again and stolen from me. So if this is Ashley, she's saying basically he's in a relapse and she just doesn't know she can take it anymore. I can definitely understand where you come from, and I know Felice can even better than I can. Ashley.

Yeah, that's. That's a tough one. So. Lt was. I feel like we were a special case of addict because most addicts will lie and cheat and steal and they don't want nobody to know. But with LT and me, he was very open and honest to me. Like, he was like, this is how much I'm drinking. I'm gonna drink this. And he never hit it. And I always knew how much he was gonna drink. And he never stole because it was his money.

Right.

You know, and so I never experienced that part of addiction like a lot of other people did.

Do you think feliz that was. Is that a characteristic of lt just to sort of be all out and honest with it, or is that a characteristic of yours? Because I know you're pretty laid back. Like you're the kind of person you could tell that to without.

Without getting both. He's very. He hates lying. Like just broken relationships and things like lying is one thing he absolutely loathes. So he doesn't. He won't lie.

Okay, so it's a, it's kind of a. Both qualities. His. He hates lying. And then you, you're pretty calm and non reactive in general. And so you guys had an honesty about you. Hey, Derek, thank you. Thank you for the positive feedback. Hey, Aaron. Hey, Carrie. And so let's go back to this time period where it was like before it was bad, but where it was like it would kind of get out of hand or too frequently, but then get better. Because I see a lot of people in my office that are sort of to that stage. I call that stage three. And so it's, it's like difficulty controlling it once I start is what I call that stage. Yeah, tell us about that. What would happen that you guys would be like, let's rein it back. Or was that all just. Lt? Was it just the frequency or would things happen?

I think it was just both. It would just turn into weekends. Would turn into weekdays. Like, can't do all the time. So then he'd be like, okay, I can quit for a little while. And. And then it would start weekends again because he had lots of friends and they, like, drink Corona. That was like their thing. And they'd come over and hang out, you know, just the social drinking. But then it would be like he would just drink by himself at night, and I'd be like, we're not hanging out. So just. You just scale it back. And he'd be like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Then he'd scale back for a while, and then the cycle would start over again.

Okay, but when you met him and he was sort of doing really well and he told you about his past at that time, did he see himself or did you see him as an addict or person in recovery? Or was it more just like he was. Just had a wild past and he got it together.

Yeah, just. He had a wild pass and got it together.

Okay.

I don't know. Like, I'm used to being around drinkers, so it wasn't anything different. You know what I mean? Family's drinks. And so it just was. Seemed normal, I guess, until it would get to the point where. Like a few years ago when he would get to the point where he was stumbling drunk, and I was like, whoa, this is becoming an issue. You're going to need help now.

When is the. When do you think was the first time it occurred to your mom? Like, oh, my gosh, I'm dealing with someone who has alcohol problems.

Right. Right before the accident, when he was. Because I would. I did become very codependent or co. Co. Addict or whatever, and I would saw myself getting sucked into it. And I would check our bank account all the time, and I would show him. I'd be like, look, 2017. You only spent a thousand dollars that year. 20. Or. Yeah, whatever. I'm just making up here. But then, like, one year, it's like, we're at $3,000 this year at the liquor store. I'm like, there's a problem now, huh? So I try and, like, point those things out and just. He was like. He would just drink by himself and lock himself in the basement. And I'm like, this is becoming an issue.

What would he say when you would break out the. The bank statements? I like your accountant, your Spreadsheet vers. I think we have a problem. He's so organized over there. I love it.

Yeah.

What would he do when you would bring those out?

He would be like, yeah, you're right. Like I do have a problem. And then that's when he'd be like, I'll try and taper off.

Okay.

He would try and taper and that wouldn't work. And I think he was just getting frustrated with himself too because the tapering wasn't working, but in his mind it should or something. I'm not really sure. I can't speak right.

Tapering is one of those things that sounds good in philosophy but doesn't really work in reality.

Yeah.

At least not for the people that come to me.

He wanted to do it by himself first. And I was like, okay, if you think you could taper, that's great. And I'd give him resources. I'm like, here's a research thing on how to taper. Maybe this will work. So he'd try that. Or he'd be like, I'll just do like a pint and then I'll go a little bit and then I'll make this one last a week. And that never worked because once you drank, it was game on.

Yeah.

Then that was when I was like. I would start to just plan it in his ear. I'm like, maybe you can't quit on your own. You might have to go to detox and started just planting seeds of. Maybe detox is an option because it's working. And then that was when the last time he tried to taper is when he told me to not ask him about it anymore and he'd take care of it himself.

Okay. He basically said, butt out.

Yep. Me, I'm gonna be honest with my feelings on this.

TJ is up here and he says that's how he came at him with. With those bank statements. Oh, so that's like a whole thing. Look, not. He's. That's such an objective way to come at it. I love it.

Just so at him with.

Logical. So great.

It's an issue. Look at this two thousand dollar jump.

Like the evidence, right? Ex A. Yeah, like a laser pointer or something.

I guess. Because you can't prove it any other way. Really try and bring out the facts because your feelings don't really seem to matter sometimes.

That's a good. That's a good point, Feliz. Because when I hear you tell the story, you just sound so calm and understanding and patient and kind, like a saint. Were you like that the whole time.

So I was very kind and patient, understanding until he would drink and push my buttons.

Oh, okay.

You know, they. They know exactly how to get under your skin and they know exactly what buttons to push to just to be instant angry. And I really was very calm and understanding and didn't hit those buttons for a long time until just piece of me just was like, this is enough. I've had enough. And then that's when I would get angry and do things like throw laundry baskets that I probably shouldn't have thrown some fight that we shouldn't have had.

Huh. I bet you're like a lot of people who are like, really calm and it takes a lot to get them out, but once they get mad, it's like scary town.

Like, game on. Yeah. Yeah.

It's been like all in there the whole time. Yeah.

But you're like, definitely not a saint in that area because. Yeah. And then he just. And I had to realize he knew exactly what buttons to push and try and like, control myself. And then at that. That's the point when I. His sister lives up the street, and that's when I would just leave. Because you can't reason with someone who shrunk. They just keep saying, speaking over and over again, and you don't even know why you're in trouble. And so you're arguing a point in there. It's just irrational. That's when I'd get frustrated and angry because I'm like, you're not listening to me. You can't hear me. And that's what would make me angry, is the fact that he wasn't understanding the other side, I guess.

Right.

My thought process. And it was just, well, when you're.

Dealing with, like, late stage addiction, you're really dealing with, like, delusion. Donna is saying that her ex would get belligerent and then say not to worry about it. And he deserved it after working so hard. I've heard that one a super time.

Yeah. The drinking deserved it. Yeah.

Yeah. Don. I see a lot of. I see a lot of guys in my office that are alcoholics. And they, for the most part, they're like really successful guys. Real smart, real successful doctors, businessmen. And so they're like, you know, I work hard, I take care of this family. And they feel like because of that, it's out of bounds. Like they. They have every right to do that. And so they're particularly difficult to deal with. Yeah.

Yeah. I just want to say hi to Aaron, too. Hi, Aaron. Aaron's part of our family. Oh, hey, Aaron.

And then Saska's on here. Melissa.

That's funny about the bank statements.

Yeah, no, that is funny.

I was not a saint in this whole thing. I had my issues I had to work through. Very frustrating. And I had to go and get help for me to not react in such an angry, frustrated way. And then that's when I went and I got. Actually got biblical counseling. Okay, lady. Through our church. And this is like. This is towards the point of his addiction, because this is after Link was in the accident. Like, I don't know if we want to go backwards.

Can you tell a little bit about the accident? Because I do think that's a pivotal thing, and I think it's important for people to understand what you were dealing with, not just with LT and his drinking, but also with your child. I mean, this was a huge thing. So can you tell about that?

Yeah. So three years ago, the kids were coming down the hill. There was, like, seven kids coming down the hill and, like, a little utv, like, with a dump bed. But the neighbor had put, like, a governor on it so it wouldn't go fast. But they put it in neutral and decided to, like, cruise down the hill. And it tipped, and all the kids come flooding out of it. And Linky got the worst of it. He got sucked underneath it and. And drug about, I don't know, 10ft, probably underneath it, and it crushed his head. And so we. That. And that's the point where Lt's drinking really just went off the rails. Like, that just really messed him up.

Okay.

Because he, like, basically dead almost. And his sister, luckily, was there, and she gave him compressions and brought him back to life. A doctor showed up and started sucking the blood out of his mouth. And then the ambulance came, and they shipped him off to McKinv. And from there he went to primaries, and it was just a waiting game to just see if he was gonna come back, if he's gonna be a vegetable, if he's gonna have brain activity and all this stuff. And he was in a coma for a good three weeks with his bones swelling on and off. Like, they ended up having to do a bone flap. So his brain had room, more room to swell. It cracked, like, the whole side of his head, and he had to. So at three weeks, we had to decide if we were going to go in and get his face reconstructed, because at that point, they have to do a trach and a feeding tube, and you can't pull the plug at that point. You've sustained Life. You're taking home a vegetable if he's a vegetable. You're taking home a kid if he's a kid.

Oh, my gosh, Felice. I just can't even imagine. This is horrible.

Yeah, it was. It was crazy. So we had three weeks to decide, and the doctors this whole time were giving us, like, zero hope. They're like, we don't see any sign. We pinch him, we do all the tests and he's not moving. But luckily, right before that, the brain surgeon, they were able to finally get him in the MRI machine because they couldn't lay him down, because as soon as they laid him down, his brain would swell real big. So they finally were able to get him laid down to get an mri. And the doctor was like, there's more. There's not as much damage as I thought there was going to be, so I should give this a chance. And we're like, you know, that was the relief that we needed to be able to. And I. We would have done the surgery anyways. It was just that relief to go and do it with like, no, you're.

Doing the right thing.

Yeah. So they did that and they fixed his face. And right after they fixed his face, he started like, moving and waking up and he coughed. And so we're like, him breathe on his own. That's when all the progress started to happen was right after they fixed his face. It was almost just had pieces that needed to go back together. And then he was moving again and he started hands and his feet. And so it was another 30 days, but he had to walk and eat again. I ended up staying at the hospital with Link, me and really did for the full two months. But lt, he ended up going home because he came home when he built the deck just in case we had a wheelchair. And then he had to go back to work because he was running out of leave. But that's really the point at the hospital when his drinking really got, like, kicked in the headgear. So he'd come home or he'd go back to the Ronald McDonald House and he would drink, drink, drink while I was at the hospital. But, like, I didn't have time really to address it then because I had another kid that I was like, I need to focus on this and do this, and I needed to be there for every medical decision. And I wanted to hear everything they were talking about because I'm just one of those people. So that was like the big turning point. And then we got home from the hospital and this drinking just still, every night, pint tonight.

Whenever that was going on, I just. If I think about. If I think about myself in a position like that, which is hard for me to even imagine, I. I think I would want to murder my husband because it's like the moment you need him the most, you know, and he.

It was frustrating, but like you said, I. I feel like I have an understanding more than I probably should. And I was like, that's how he needs to cope, and that's what he's doing. But I also had a great support group. Like the neighbor lady, she was there every day. My parents were always there, so it's not like I didn't have anybody. And then. Because he'd only really drink at night. And so during the day, when he'd come into the hospital, he was there. He was pregnant. And then at night, that's when the drinking would kick off and then come back.

So.

So it's not like he wasn't there. Just wasn't 100%, I guess, just sat.

Was there any point in the whole process that you thought, I don't. I don't think we're gonna make it through this? Not. Not necessarily with Link, but as far as you and LT were, there. Were there moments where you thought, I can't deal with this anymore. I'm out, or you're out, or no.

Like, those never went through my head. Not at that point.

Okay.

But like, a few months down the road when things. The drinking obviously got worse, but that. And the fights got worse. That's when it. It was like a year later, probably a year later.

Okay. So it really escalated, started to escalate right before the accident, and then the dam broke because of the accident. And then that went on for. For how long?

The next three years, till he went to read.

Years. Okay, well.

Well, he's been clean, so two years.

Two years.

Two years for sure.

And it. And so during that, two years later after the accident, those were the. There were moments where you thought, that's it. I'm out. I'm not dealing with this.

Yeah. And it was only when we would fight. And that was, like, the worst part. And I think I wouldn't have had an issue with the alcohol and the drinking. It's the fight during that really hurt. And, you know, and I think they hurt the most because they don't remember it the next day. But the family members, they're stuck with that. And that's the resentments, I guess, that we have to work through, and those feelings and the hurt Words. Because they do. They know exactly the meanest things to say to just make you snap that those were the nights where I was like, I can't do this anymore. I don't want to be here. And those were the nights when I'd go up to his sister's house and I take Lincoln Millie with me. Because the older two, they were. They took care of themselves a lot of the time where they weren't here or just go to bed. And he would go to bed and it was just to get him to go to bed because if I could get him to go to bed, everything would be okay.

Right. But he would drink and start these fights. And that was the, that was the worst part of it for you, is that he would pick a fight.

Yeah. And you just never knew what it was going to be about or why you're in trouble. You know? And usually it was just very trivial, trivial things. And that wouldn't, just wouldn't let it go. Like, I'm out, can't be here right now. But yeah.

And then where in that timeline was it that you started to see the Count?

When I saw myself really like checking the bills every day. Checking where. See where he was going every day and just getting stuck in his cycle. And then, and then the way I would react when we would fight. I didn't like who I was becoming. I was becoming a very angry, bitter person. And that's not my personality at all. Like, I'm like the happiest, most easygoing person. And I felt like I was losing who I was. And I was like, I can't do that anymore. And then that's when I started going to counseling and we actually went through a book called the Excellent Wife.

Okay.

And so we had gone through it before, but this time when I went through it, it just like hit home on how to be a loving wife, even though the man I loved was self destructing. So how to love him unconditionally and not be a part of these angry outbursts and still serve him the way a wife should serve a husband and do all the things a wife should do, but let him go down this path and let him experience his consequences. And then. And it gave me that in the article the 10 Ways to Help an Alcoholic. It gave me the permission I needed to back off and quit hovering, I guess, and trying to control it.

So that's. That sounds super. That sounds super similar to the thing I teach people, which is basically to not be the bad cop anymore. The consequences fall. So it's like, stop fixing this and just not. Don't get into that bad cop role. But I know once when you told me before that you had read that book, how to Be a Good Wife, I thought to myself, I thought a lot of the people that I know would be offended at. Like, I don't even think I would recommend that if I was seeing a wife in my office. I don't think I would recommend that because I think I just, like, insulted them. Honestly, just the title, which I think everything you're saying about what the book said is everything that I would say, but. Because a lot of people are just so angry and upset, and it's like, what do you mean? How to be a good one? You know, I'm not doing anything wrong.

Yeah, but at the same time, you are, in the way you're reacting to the situation. You know what I mean?

Getting sucked into it, basically. Yeah. Yeah.

Because there's a right way to react and then there's a wrong way to react, and you still have to take responsibility for the wrong way that you're reacting. And that's what I found that I had to do.

Okay.

Because I couldn't sit there and keep lashing out and arguing over pointless things and making myself bitter and angry. And that was on me. Like, that wasn't because of him. And so I had to take responsibility for me.

You started getting help before he started getting help?

Yeah. Yeah. Probably a year before he did.

I tell families all the time, like, if. If the family will get sort of cleaned up on their side of the street. It's not long after before the person does it really. It really. I call it the invisible intervention. That's what we call it in my office. But it's like, if you stop feeding it, I always say it's like a parasite. It doesn't. It just almost like, starves it out.

It does. And I. I noticed that all my years of not doing it that way was pushing him. It felt like I was just pushing him into it more. And as soon as I stepped back and just started letting him answer for himself when he wouldn't do things and experience. Like, there was one time I left him at my mom's house because he was drunk and wanted to keep partying or whatever, and I was like, we're going home. It's like midnight. I was like, you can come with me now or you can sleep here. And so I just left him there. And so he would just have to experience those consequences. And I had to quit teetering to him and it was like at that point where he. It almost like he went deeper for a minute to pull himself back out. Like, he went bottom real quick after that.

Yeah, I think. I think you said something really good earlier when you and I were talking about something you read in the article about let the crisis happen.

Yeah. Yeah. Let the crisis happen.

Right. It's a shift in thinking, and I feel like a lot of the families we work with, they've tried to stay off the crisis.

Yeah.

Just trying to, like, hang on and, you know, just get them through this period or get them through that dui or get on to graduate high school or whatever it is. And, like, no, you need to let it roll. Yeah.

And his family thought I was crazy. Like, how do you just do that? Because I remember we were at one, I think it was Thanksgiving, but. Lt had been drinking, and he went out and was, like, talking to the cops and his brother and was out there trying to stop him. And they're like, why aren't you doing anything? I'm like, he's a grown man. Make his own decisions. And they just thought. I felt like they thought I was nuts for just letting him just go out and do it. And his brother's trying to bring him back. I'm like, let him do it.

Did that ever make you question yourself, that other people were questioning you?

No.

No. You're a steadfast, good friend.

He's a grown man. He's gonna make his own decisions, and I can't. That's the conclusion I came to.

Yeah. I've got a client, his mom, husband, that I talked to from Charleston, and I got him sort of on this same kind of plan that you were on. And he says people are always telling him, like, are you crazy? And then he has to come back and tell me. He's like, are you sure? I'm like, still sure. It's almost like he needs that. Like, still keep doing it. Everyone around you will think you're crazy.

Yeah. Family members, they need that permission to do it almost for someone to tell them it's okay. Like, I needed. I need someone to tell me that it's okay to do what you're doing, because the addiction is gonna be so mad at you for not saving them. Or he's gonna be mad when he gets home and, why didn't I bring him home? You know what I mean?

Yeah. But if you try to force it and save them, I get mad at you for that. So you don't get mad at either way.

So I'd rather You get mad at me for making you experience the consequences, than you get mad at me for me always saving you.

That's right. Yeah.

It's just something you have to weigh the options. Like, either way, you're gonna be in trouble. So be in trouble for what's gonna help. And it's. And it's hard, and it's. The most difficult thing I ever had to do was step back and let him experience it, but it was the best thing I ever did.

Mm. So Liz is on here, and she says hi. And then we got a question on here from Ashley. What do you do when they're dragging you down with them and taking the rent money and can't pay the bills? And that's a great question. What's. Do you have any advice for Ashley.

Feliz they're dragging down and taking rent money? Well, I guess my question is to you. Is it the same pile of money? Like, do you work, or is it all your money, or is it all his money? Because it's hard to keep the money if it's, you know, if it's not yours, if it's not your bank account. Like, I don't know what I would do in that situation, because you do still have to pay the rent. But in my situation, it was my money.

Huh.

My own paycheck, and he can't take that one. But we never had that issue anyways.

Sometimes with drugs, it. There's more of a money issue.

Than.

There is like with alcohol. I mean, obviously, your bill was going up, and it was like, you spent $3,000 this year. But if it strikes, it can be $3,000 in a month. So it creates a pretty big money issue really fast.

So I don't know. I feel like I would just hoard the money if it was my money and not tell them I had it.

Okay. You would sort of split the finances.

Finances first, and you go find your own drug money.

There you go.

But that's a tough one as far as, like, where the money's coming from.

Right. I think it's almost like you have to know more about the specifics of each family situation for that. Yeah, yeah.

But don't you help? He doesn't have the power to drag you through it. If you need to leave, then leave. In my situation, I didn't feel like I needed to leave, but I know in a lot of situations and a lot of people we talk to, it's more beneficial for them to split and then let him experience his consequences and get help, and then hopefully he gets help and you can come back together, but that's just situational.

Yeah. Sometimes you do have to, especially if you feel like something's going on that's putting your kids at risk or you're putting the family, like. Like Ashley was saying, in, like, great financial jeopardy. There can be other complications where you really. You don't have much choice but to back up and draw that boundary.

Yeah. That's one boundary you might have to do.

Yeah.

It's your money. She says, it's mine. It's your money. I would.

This is a good thing.

Yeah. I would leave and not let him put me in that situation. Because you don't need to be in that situation. You have control over your life. He doesn't. That's your decision. Right.

Asking, did he go to rehab? If so, when he came home, were you nervous about relapse? That's a great question, Carrie.

He did go to rehab. He actually went into detox. Like, oh, I didn't even know he was going to go into detox. Just I got a phone call from his dad saying, hey, or it might have been him.

All right.

He might have texted me and said that my dad's taking me to detox. And I was like, sweet, because I was at work.

Okay.

A whole binge weekend of drinking and realized, like, that was his bottom and he needed help because he couldn't quit. So he went to detox. And then he contemplated going into an intense outpatient or an inpatient, and we went without patient time to stretch, go for a walk, or call a friend. Thank you. But yeah, so he went into an intense outpatient. And so he was there five nights a week from 5 to 9. And I told him, I was like, I see more of you now that you're gone every night than I did when you drank every night.

Wow.

Because it was him that I was seeing. It wasn't distant. Him. Alcoholic. And it was such a relief. And, like, I just made sure that I had everything taken care of at home so that he could do that every night. And then family therapy on Thursdays.

And then. Did you worry that he would relapse? I think I heard him say in one of Yalls episodes that he did have a relapse at some point.

Point.

Did you worry about that?

He did have a relapse, and it made me really sad. But, yeah, initially there was that fear of he could relapse. But at the same time, I'm not one to dwell on future things that may or may not happen. Like, it Feels like that's a waste of my time, so I'm one that will deal with it when it does happen.

Okay. How long did the relapse last?

Just a night. And it was only, like, three shots. Okay. He says it was his addict brain's way of talking him into thinking he didn't have a problem because he's like, I have control over this alcohol, and I can.

I can drink three shots and not. Not anymore. Totally. Yeah.

Yeah. His counselor was like, that's the most dangerous kind of. We're in control. And so he's like, so you had to drink to convince yourself you don't have a drinking problem? And he's like, dang it. And he had us all convinced, basically, that was a good idea. I'm like, okay. But I did. When he told me he was gonna drink it, I had a meltdown in the shower, and then I couldn't tell. I didn't tell him not to. I just told him how I felt about it, and then he did what he was gonna do anyways.

So he told you beforehand? Yeah. Well, like, never happens.

Link's like, we went to the liquor store, like, what?

He's like, out at him. And then he's like, okay, that never happens. Okay.

He's like, I was gonna tell you. I was like, I know. And he showed it to me, and he's like, I'm gonna drink this when I'm ready to drink this, and. Because I don't think that everybody who has a drinking problem goes off the rails as soon as they have one drink. I was like, okay. So he drank it. There's nothing I could do to talk them out of it. So I didn't. I was like, that's you. And then you're gonna have to deal with it in counseling later. You have to tell on yourself.

You're so logical. Feliz. Wow. TJ says that's how it went for me when my girl walked out on me. I was in rehab within the next three months. So basically, TJ Is saying, like, she had to draw the boundary. She had to leave.

Yeah. Sometimes you have to. Sometimes that's what it takes for someone to realize that there's a problem is to lose almost everything that they have, everything that they love.

Right.

I think if he would have stayed on the path, eventually I would have had to leave, because at some point, it's not safe for me and my kids to be here. But I was able to keep. I felt I. There's still some times where I feel like I Could have obviously done things better and I could have made different boundaries and I could have shielded my kids from it more. But in the long run, we all have to recover together anyways. And now my kids know both sides. They know addiction and they know recovery. And hopefully my kids will take that into the future and not become addicts down the road. You know what I mean?

Did they. What was their level of awareness about everything that was going on? Did they react to it?

So anyways, and Zyland, they were, they were old enough. They knew exactly what was going on all the time. Link, he was going through his own things. His memory was shot at the point, so I don't think he remembers a lot of it, but he does remember quite a bit because he did tell it. He's like, I'm glad I have my real dad back and not my drunk dad.

Wow.

So obviously saw the difference between the real LT and the addict. Here he is, he wants to come say hi. Millie. If you ask her, she's like, I don't care. She's eight. I don't care about nothing. But the older two, they, they experienced it a lot more. Okay, thank you everybody.

So did they say anything, the older two, did they get upset?

Yeah, we'd have lots of heart to hearts for sure. Especially me and Amos, because he seemed to hit the front of the alcohol talks and I'd be like, there was points where I'd intervene and I'd send him out to his friend's house or something. I'm like, that's enough. Just stay away from dad for tonight and you know, come back, come back later after he's gone to bed. And then he's even like during fights sometimes. Like, Amos was the peacemaker because obviously I couldn't get to him. But Amos was able to like talk him down and, and then. So they're very grown up about it, unfortunately, a little faster, I think, but they handled it well.

Kerry says you're super level headed. Thank you for answering. And Derek had a comment here that I wanted to show. He says that there's also a medication assisted treatment like naltrexone or Vivitrol, which is the injection or Kampryl. Those are for those of you who are watching who don't know what those are. It's basically different forms of the same medicine, what he's mentioning there, but it's a medication that helps, supposedly helps with alcohol cravings. The way I like to say what it does is it makes drinking a little less fun. Kind of like Chantix for smoking cigarettes. So it's like. It's not necessarily you take it and you don't drink it. You take it, and if you drink, it's less fun. So theoretically, it kind of like curbs your desire if it's not as fun. So that's what that is. Yeah.

So he did try naltrexone once prior to going into rehab. And he's like, oh. Because he watched this video, like the magic thing. It'll make it Sinclair Method. Yeah. And so he tried it and got a prescription. And he's like, I hate the way it makes me feel. I was like, why? So I took one, and it makes you feel like a zombie almost. I didn't get it. I was like, but give it another try. And he's like, nope. And that was it for that. But then when he went into his rehab, they actually prescribed it and he took it for like a month or something.

Okay.

For the first or a couple weeks or something.

Okay.

So he did use it the second time again. It was weird, but it works.

It's really a medicine designed for opioid receptors. It's. It was originally and still used for heroin addiction, opiate addiction. But they found this link because alcohol works on. I get nerd out here. Alcohol works on five of the addictive receptors in your brain. Five of eight addictive receptors, and that's just one of them, one of the ones that alcohol acts on. We have a question here from tj. Oh, this statement from tj, he's saying, when. When did she walk out? We lost our place, and I got help, patched up our relationship. I think what TJ's saying here is this was the fallout of when she left and kind of the events that took place.

So it sounds like it helped and you got some help, TJ, you do have an amazing wife. TJ. LT actually made a video of TJ's wife because she way a year ago, and she seemed like an amazing woman. Tj.

Okay. And can you find that on and your Facebook group?

Yeah, here, I'll. I'll share the link to our Facebook group.

That'd be great.

But, yeah, she's a beautiful lady.

Tj, Carrie's asking a question. Is that. I'm guessing you're asking about the medicine naltrexone. It's not addictive. It won't produce withdrawal symptoms.

It.

It actually blocks your opioid receptor. So when you give it to someone addicted to pain pills, they can use, but they can't get high. So it's kind of the opposite of addictive.

Yeah.

Things less fun, not more fun. No troubles with people getting addicted to that. Anybody else have any questions up here for Felice? Derek is talking about Vivitrol some more and he's saying that it's $1,400 a shot. I don't even think of drinking. I won't take an opiate pain medication.

That's good.

The medicine is very expensive. It will help with that. And if you don't have insurance or even if you do have insurance but doesn't cover very much. The makers of Vivitrol have a plan that you. It's like a copay assistance and that'll knock at least half of it off. So if. If it's something that you or your loved one is thinking about, you can't access Vivitrol. Even if you don't have insurance. They'll. They have co pay assistance and make it more affordable for people. But it is. It's kind of weird to get. You have to order it from a specialty pharmacy and you probably would have to have a doctor who knew what that was. I'm not sure if every doctor would even know what that is. Here's a comment from Julie. My husband has fought for a long time and can't seem to quit. He's been in multiple rehabs. Occasionally he'll just not come home because he's used more than usual and doesn't want to face me. And his addiction takes over after a couple of days. Says he's not coming back because I'm better off without him.

Any words for Julie? It's tough when they're in that cycle of addiction and feel like there's no hope. I think the best part is to just be an open ear. It's so hard to be the family member of an addict and to listen to their problems and not be judgmental because you feel like it's personal and it's against you. But to be able to just listen to him and to just understand what he's going through and realize that addiction is probably one of the hardest things that he's ever going to have to face because it's a lifelong process. But to be able to just be understanding and listen and just support. Sometimes you have to support from a distance. Love from and let him obviously experience those consequences. But also just being unjudgmental ear.

I will also add to that Julie and say that what you're describing is. And I have a lot of videos about this, but I talk about how when you're dealing with addiction, you're, you're dealing with someone who's in a constant cycle of resentment and self pity. And this is like the twist version of that, which is like, I'm such a horrible human being, I feel sorry for myself because I'm so terrible. So it's like I beat myself up and then feel sorry for myself because I beat myself up. And that one's like a harder one to come against because it's. They're saying, yes, I'm terrible, I'm the lowest, you know, piece of junk, don't even deserve you. But that's still addictive thinking process. It's still the same way of self pity. And so even though it, it's kind of like a one that you would have more empathy for, is still the same cycle going on, I say.

Let'S see. It's hard to watch them go through that and knowing there's nothing really you can do. They need to get the help, I.

Think, you know, I think honestly. And it's also a way of letting themselves off the hook, like can't help it. I'm so terrible. It's an excuse and a way of not taking responsibility for the situation. It's just a different way to go about doing it. Ashley's asking about Suboxone and Vivitrol. Suboxone is made of buprenorphine, which is an opiate, mostly buprenorphine, like 98% or something like that, buprenorphine and 2% Vivitrol. So Suboxone actually has Vivitrol in it or a version of Vivitrol and naloxone in it, which is an opioid blocker. So one is the opioid receptor and one is blocking the opioid receptor.

I hope that helps.

And there's actually several videos on the channel, Ashley, about that where I talk about medication assisted treatment in detail about all those different chemicals and how they work in the brain and all that kind of stuff. My husband stopped drinking, but still doesn't believe he really has a problem. I wish he could join me in recovery so we could grow together as a couple, be closer.

So that would be nice. What I love about the 12 steps and is that they're like the, the best life principles. Like they're not just for addicts but like Al anon uses the 12 steps. So I, I wish your husband would get on board because they really are just great tools just for life situations in general.

It's about growing as a Person, Right. Yeah. That anyone could use. Totally.

Instead of. Sounds like maybe he's a dry drunk syndrome type.

Yeah.

Right.

And that's a. That's like an AA term. A dry drunk is. Means somebody who's not drinking or using but hasn't worked on themselves.

Yeah. Yeah.

So they're kind of stuck in limbo.

Yeah. Yeah.

So tell us, Lee, pal, that people can see more of you and lt. And hear what. Hear what you have to say.

And so we do have a YouTube channel called Recovering Addict. And my husband, he. We do book studies. So right now he's going through. I'll show you. It's called Addictive Thinking. Shashka, maybe you can get your husband on board with this one. It's really good book. Like, it's not just about alcohol and substance abuse. It's like any addictive thinking, like food or just whatever. And so it's just great for everybody on. On both sides. But, yeah, we do have that YouTube channel, recovering addict, and he talks about addiction, and I talk about what it's like being with an addict and have questions for those types of family members. And then we also have a Facebook group called Recovering Addict. And then we're also on Discord. And I will put those links in there so y' all have them. He's really been working on this Discord because it's way cooler than we thought it was. Like, there's different rooms. You can go in, like, there. Have you seen it?

I asked my group about a month and a half ago. I was like, what is Discord? Why do other YouTubers have one? And, like, my group was like, laughing. They're like. They told me that was for gamers.

So, no, it's, like, way cool. Like, the guy from the UK is teaching him how to put it together. And it's like, got different rooms. You can go in. Like, there's a chat room or a meme room or, like a music room, and then there's. He has a content room. So, like, all our YouTube videos will go into the content room and it'll share it through that way. And it's just another way for everybody to talk. And you can do, like, little meetings and, like, talk to each other in the rooms. Like, he's just learned this in the last couple days. He's super excited about it.

They were wrong, man.

Yeah, it's pretty neat. But that Discord is in. The link is in there. And then.

All right, Whitney had a comment for said. My husband and I just talked last night. The most openly we have. And he just told me he wasn't ready. And until he was ready, nothing I would have said or done would have made him ready. Glad he is now.

Oh, that's wonderful. I'm glad he's ready now too.

Well, Whitney, I don't know if I totally agree with what he said to you about nothing you could have said or done would have made me ready. There may be a little truth in that. I can tell you. There are a lot of things you could have said or done that would have made him not ready or stay in it longer for sure. I can tell you that. Yeah.

Yeah, I did. I always made sure to plant those seeds though. Like you can always, if the conversation's open and they're willing to listen, just plant the seeds of how you feel and that there's help out there and there's things that you could do and that no matter what, you're behind them. 100 because that's one thing I made sure LT knew is that once he was in recovery, I would be there 100 no matter what he wanted to do. Like, so we're doing YouTube channel, we got a non profit going, help recovering addicts. Like whatever path he wants to go in this recovery, I'll be there 100%.

I think a lot of times people in recovery don't quite realize how much of a part of that recovery the family plays. Oh, I just decided I just got my act together. But there's a lot of behind the scenes that goes on leading up to that. And so if you're watching this and you're a family member, I love Feliza's story. And I didn't even know this when I, when we started this interview, but she, she got help first. She got herself in line and then he came quickly after. And that's my experience is that you can help influence it and the best way you can do that is to sort of get yourself level headed. And Feliz, you're perfect for that. You're super like logical and strategic already, just naturally. So it worked well for you guys. Yeah.

Not super, super emotionally thought driven, I guess.

Okay. I definitely want to encourage everyone to check out Recovering addict on YouTube and on Facebook. What I like about them particularly is that they do the, the book studies and so there are other like youtubers I see that are kind of like support and people, but they don't do a lot of teaching and education. So I feel like you and LT do a lot of teaching on the addiction side the same as I do. On the. And that makes the biggest difference. And that's not being done out there that I've seen.

That's why we started it. Because, like, Everybody does the 12 steps, but. Lt is always like, then what? Like continuing care of continuing education, to be able to stay sober and still keep learning and how to keep fixing.

About understanding yourself and your thinking process. I always say recovery management is just sanity management. Yeah, that's what it is.

Yeah. And then we do it as a family, because it wasn't just him that was caught in this addiction. It was the whole family. Like, my kids had to heal, I had to heal. And we're still healing together. Like every 8ameeting he went to, we went with him as much as. And just to show support, you know, and then, not only that, but it helped me really understand where addicts are coming from. Because at first I was like, oh, why don't you just quit? It's that easy. But it's not that easy. Like, addiction is this crazy lifelong battle that they have to deal with that I will not ever really understand, but I can still sympathize and try and relate as best as possible.

Well, right, Sherry? Lt is the name of Elise's husband.

Yes. Yeah.

He's like, lt, what's that?

Oh, yeah. Whole family. We all had to do it together.

Well, thank you everyone who. Who watched us live. And thank you for those of you who are watching it on the replay. I hope that you guys check out Feliz and lt. You're going to see exactly what I'm talking about. You're going to love them. I love the studies, the book studies that they do. And if. Even if you're a family member, I suggest you watch that because you're gonna, like Feliza's talking about. You're really gonna understand what goes on in recovery addict thinking, what they should be learning. You're really gonna understand the process. It's gonna make you, as I always like to say, five steps ahead.

Yeah. As a family member, you gotta do that research, man.

That's right. Thanks, everybody. And we'll see you again next week.

Yeah.