Does Your Addicted Loved One Blame You For Everything?

So I am super excited to have special guest with us, Campbell Manning, who is our family recovery specialist. Campbell has two sons in recovery herself, and today she's going to talk to us all about how to get out of the bad guy roll. And those of you who watch anything on this channel, you guys know, I think this is probably the most important thing that you can do that'll help yourself and your loved one. And before Campbell talks to us, let me just tell you. I'm gonna tell you what I tell my clients about Campbell. You wanna. You want to know? You don't want to know.

Yeah.

A lot of times, Campbell sees mostly, like, the parents here in the office. And when I get these young people, young adults or teenagers in the office, and. And. And I tell them their parents are going to see Campbell, and I sort of explain how we work, and I say, listen, you're done. Her sketch out is 10 miles long, and you might as well just seriously give it up, because Campbell's gonna know everything you're gonna do before you do it.

Well, you think you're gonna do it.

Before you think you're gonna do it. And the. And the. The biggest thing about it is that not only is she gonna know it and you're done, so you might as well give up drugs and alcohol. It's this. It's like. But in the meantime, she's gonna, like, pry your parents off of you with a crowbar. That's what I tell people. I'm like, she's so dang skinny because she's in her house all day with that crowbar, getting parents off of people. And. And you're gonna think you got it. You're gonna think the coast is clear and everything's better because they're off of your case. But in reality, Campbell's sitting back there waiting, and she will lead you right into a trap, so you might as well just stop. That's what I tell them about you, which is, like, totally, totally true. Totally true. Totally true. I know. It's terrible. It's like, I've got you over there as the prosecutor. I'm the defense attorney, and sometimes I wish I didn't have such a good prosecutor. These people. All right, so let's get in with our topic. So, Campbell, first of all, let's just sort of. Why don't you tell us what you think the bad guy roll means? Like, in your mind, when you hear that, what does that mean for you?

The bad guy role is the. The person or people that the addict has decided are the problem. And there. That's where they put all of their anger and bad moodness. And because if you'll just get out of my way, I don't actually have a problem. You are my problem. They're the villain, you're the villain. Right. And it's generally. To be honest, I found it's generally the person to whom they're the most connected is the worst bad guy because that limbic brain can't tolerate that shame of the disease. And so they. It's generally the mom, but not always. But they're just horrible to that person to justify what it is they're doing.

Right. The main person, writes the parent, usually the moment, but definitely the parent or the spouse. It's that closest person.

Yep.

And what is it that they do, the person that's addicted that sucks you into the bad guy roll? Like, what are some of the things that the bad guy roll gets sort of sucked into?

The bad guy role is the most afraid person. And so they do what I tell them not to do, but takes a while is they constantly checking. They're trying to manage and control the person. They're putting down rules. They' accusing them. There's a lot of accusing. And so I think that that's like they're the ones that are also taking the fish hooks. Like when the kid is throwing out the, like starting the fights to justify what they're going to do in a minute anyway.

Right.

That that parent, the bad guy is just nibbling on those fish hooks and running with it.

Right. Because like I like the way you said, it's usually the person that's like their alert is up the highest and they're the most scared and they're getting these like alarm bells in their head constantly. So it's causing them to be the investigator.

Exactly. They're just frantically trying to keep all their balls of control in the air because they, you know, naively think at the beginning that if they can just keep their child busier or, you know, away from the bad friends. So they're constantly like. It's like their own parental shell game. But that keeps him in the bad guy role because the kid is just like, back up. I mean, we saw it in a joint session this week. It was classic.

What happened? Can you tell us what happened without breaking.

You were there. It was terrible.

Oh, the one I was in. Sometimes the defense attorney, people.

Embarrassed for you. Yeah. I mean, he's just calling the mom names and starting fights and irrational thinking and. But in his world, like, she's crazy. They are crazy as parents because everything's going great in his world, even though he's failed 10th grade, doesn't have a dime to. Can't drive a car because he can't take it. I mean, but he was just horrible to them, especially mom. Like, I had to give her a little gift, right?

And what, what happens is like the investigator person, the person that's the scaredest, the one that's trying to figure it out. And they're constantly trying to prove it because they're constantly being told that they're crazy and that they're just being ridiculous or that they're overreacting or something like that. And so they're trying to prove it to catch the person, but also to prove that they were right. You know, it's like, no, it really is happening.

Yeah, that's true. And also what they do is like, I've noticed a lot of moms will go like up to their child's room and try to have these heart to heart talks. Like if you could just, if you just stop doing what you're doing and you know this isn't how you were brought up, and they're having these talks that the kid is just like, oh my God, shut up. Yeah, yeah, it's bad. But that just. And again, like that I feel so bad because that's out of love. All of this is out of love, but it's just getting slapped back in their face so hard, right?

And it's like the harder they try, the worse it gets. And then it feels like sometimes the addict will do things to provoke that person, that bad guy person into like having an outburst. I've talked to a few parents recently on some of our phone coaching sessions. One parent who just like, you could tell they're just full of like guilt and remorse and shame. They just felt terrified. But they were like, well, one time I like pushed my daughter really hard and I shouldn't have done that. Or, or there's a couple of calls I took this week where it's like the parent got to the point where they just sort of lost it and they. And they either got aggressive or something like that. Not like crazy aggressive, but pushed or.

Shoved or say things like, I. I mean, I'm sure I called one of my kids a piece of.

You know what, right? And then the thing of it is though, is that they're like instigating you into that and they.

Oh, they're totally goading you. Yeah.

Right.

Yeah, they're goading you so that they're Gonna. They're already planning to go out and use anyway, but they're gonna start that little fight or whatever. It's going to be so that you'll take that fish hook and then there will be an argument or something. And then they're in their little heads. They're like, well, now I'm gonna go use. I wasn't going to before, but you're being such a.

Or you're so crazy. I gotta do whatever, right?

Yeah, you're so crazy, I've got to go use. And then they also blame. Like, I actually had a client this morning who said that his. Her daughter said, you're making me so crazy, I'm going to go take pain pills. Like, literally, blatantly said it.

It's. It's a. It's just a tactic to get you to just, like, to stop or whatever. So we have a comment up here that says, should we just leave them alone?

Yes, you should. Really? Yes, you should.

Whatever. Whatever. Just do like that.

Yeah, I mean, just say. I mean, I. I think you have to live with your own parental heart. Like, if your kid said, At 11 at night, I'm going out, and you, you know, I wouldn't say, well, I don't like those friends. I would just say, well, I don't think it's a good idea, but I'm not gonna have a fist fight to stop you. I don't think you should say, okay, great, have a good time. Here's 20 bucks. But I also think you can just sort of set a boundary for yourself, right?

You don't have to give permission for it. You can even say, you know what? I don't think I can endorse it. I can't give permission for it. But, yeah, I know you're gonna do what you're gonna do.

Yeah, I said all the time, like, well, I can't get behind that, but I can't stop you.

Exactly. And then when they walk out and do it anyway, they have to do it and feel guilty about it. So at least they know it's on them.

Because you didn't. You didn't take the bait.

Yeah, exactly. We've got another comment up here. Kimberly says, yes, it's my anxiety. I need to stop worrying. I need to stop consuming myself with him. How that's the key to getting out of the bag. I roll, is you got to stop the obsession.

So I say all the time, the only way to do it, and it takes. It takes time and it takes practice, is to go towards yourself. Because during all of this crazy time, you've probably stopped reading books, stopped going to lunch with friends, stop watching movies, because you're just so addicted to his addiction. So the ticket, I find is to go towards yourself, to begin those sort of habits coming back into world. And that supports, you know, behavior comes before thoughts and feelings. You're not going to feel good about that, but the more you do it, the better you will feel. And also your kid will be like, well, I'm not like the center of the show here. And they'll realize that they're more responsible for themselves. It's hard. It's hard to do that. Another way to do it is one of my parents and parent group has coined this thing, and I think it's brilliant, is start to treat your kid like you would treat your friend's kid.

Yeah.

So you wouldn't say all the crazy things to your friend's kid. Even if you thought that kid was doing major drugs. You wouldn't say anything. You'd just be like, oh, hi, it's nice to see you. How are you? And that helps a lot because it kind of gets you emotionally out of the fray enough for them to keep spinning without you getting sucked into it.

Right. And I've been working with this spouse, like, virtually coaching this spouse. It's a husband in this case. And so he's. He really gets it. He's like, understanding it and he's like, doing it. But like, every week I gotta talk to him, he's like, are you sure? Like, I just feel like I'm letting.

Her get away with it.

And I say, your good head is like, hold, hold. You are like. It feels so, like, unnatural. Not just because it does, but you have to realize that we should be doing something.

Yeah. But what you have to realize is that by you not doing it, nothing's changed. You feel better. When you're crazy, they're still doing drugs. When you're less crazy, they're still doing drugs, but you're less crazy. And so there's a win.

And I can tell you, because I'm the one on the other end of it, when the parent gets out of the way, they may still be doing drugs for a while, but they. It starts to get in their head like, that they're treating their family badly. They start to feel guilty about it instead of being constantly, like, preoccupied.

Yeah.

With. You're the bad guy. Yeah.

It lets them realize their life is unmanageable.

But if.

If you're constantly pointing out that their life is unmanageable they can't see that it's unmanageable. They just think you're crazy. So if you stop pointing it out, they can see it.

They're like blocking their view essay. Step out the way so they can see it. Okay, what are some of the biggest things that you think parents, parents or spouses do that really make them act out in the background? Like tell the funny thing you talk about, like about the tracking the cell phones. You always say something funny about that.

I don't know what I say, but I don't think you should track their phone. I don't think you should track their car. I don't think you should do any of that stuff because that just makes you.

You.

It gives you information you can't do anything with. Plus, if they know you're doing it, that's all they're focusing on is that you're insane.

Right.

Anything like that. Like, I've got lots of clients and they're like going around behind and talking to their friends and trying to call the school counselors and they're just trying to get everyone to support their view, but it just makes them look like such a bad guy.

Oh, I love what you just said. This, this is the other piece of. It is like the addictive person goes around and tries to garner support. So it's not just you be the bad guy. And I convince myself that I am justified in what I'm doing or whatever, or disturb myself. But also they literally make you act like a lunatic. And then they go around and they talk to therapists and get the therapist on their side and they talk to like co workers and church family members and church people. And. And before you know it, not only are you the bag out of your loved one, but you may not even know, but everyone around you thinks you are crazy. Lynn, take another bad guy because the addictive person is trying to sort of validate their own point of view, right? Oh, yeah.

And what you're also doing in that is you're also alienating maybe future people who could help you when the kid is more ready. Because then those people are going to be a tapped out or the kids already like put them into the bad guy role way too early.

Right. Stacy says she gets told that she's holding him hostage. I guess.

Yeah.

Yeah, you kind of are, I guess, a little bit, maybe.

Well, it feels like it because you're not letting him go out or you're not giving him money or you're not letting him drive a car. And so they Say that all the time. Like you're. You're holding me hot. Do my own home. So no wonder I have to smoke pot. The bathroom.

Right, Exactly. It's not that I'm that addicted that I have to smoke all the time. I just have to do it secretly. And I hear this with all the time. I'm only sneak drinking because my wife is crazy. I hear that all the time. Right, Right.

Yeah. They don't. They can't see into the mirror because we're blocking the view.

Exactly. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

What are. So you sort of talked about getting back into your own hobbies. You talked about like, you know, if you read books, if you take yoga class, whatever it is you do anything else that you would give any advice on that's helpful to kind of let go of it.

Find someone to talk to is a great thing because especially if your spouse are not on the same page, which is often the case. So then that becomes that disenfranchised grief that I talk about. So find a counselor, find a dear friend. Some of it's not going to give you the platitudes that you don't need to hear or going to give you the wealthy reminder kind of conversation. So find someone to talk to that can hear you and validate you, but also can say it's okay to let go and it's okay to be you.

Right.

Because other parents are not. They're going to be like, you can't let them go out. Don't let, don't. They're going to almost give you the opposite advice of what I would give you.

Right. That's actually what happened to the, the husband I was telling you about that I see this week. His father in law called him. He said, I talked to someone. I can tell she'd been drinking. You need to do something about it. And he's like, what I do? I said tell him to call her. He's calling you. I said, or you tell him call me or something. You know, like. But that brings this other. Guilting from these other people making you feel like you should be trying to control it.

But that brings up a really good point, Amber is that would be like get off that drama triangle. So don't, don't feed that kind of conversation because then you've just dragged another person in there to be the bad guy role with you. And so it'll just bite you.

Right.

100%.

It's really hard because I think, oh, it's your instincts tell you differently. The people around you tell you Differently. And it's just. It just makes you feel like you've totally lost your whole sense of self. You feel confused. You know, it's an emotional roller coaster.

I guess it's super hard to do because it's counterintuitive, because you're into it. Your intuition is telling you to do everything that I'm telling you not to do. And so I think that's the problem is you think I'm literally watching my kid die, like, or the beard might die. And I'm watching it and I'm doing nothing. And that doesn't feel good at all. But it's the illusion of control that you're giving up. You're not really. You don't have any control over it anyway.

Right. And I like to tell people doing nothing is different than waiting. Because I think what we do, we coach people. It's really not doing nothing. It looks like doing nothing, it feels like doing nothing, but it's really secretly waiting. It's like I tell my clients, I was like, but don't even think that the coast is clear because you're done for. Because they're literally just waiting for you. And when the moment strikes, you done for. Which is. That's why I tell them, you're not doing nothing. You're waiting for your moment.

Yeah. You're getting out of the way is what you're doing.

Exactly.

So that the moment can come. Because the more we do that talk, to hold back, put rules down, the moment's not coming.

We got another comment up here from Stephanie who says, I do great until I hear from him. And we had two near death experiences in January trying to try to find him. I think in this case, the person is not at home. They're gone. And there's like no communication. Any thoughts about that?

No. I mean, I think that's a natural thing. And the, the further out of sight, out of mind does play into this to a degree. So when you hear from them, it's just retriggering you. I just try to talk to him like you would talk to someone else's child at that point. And just try not to go into that catastrophic place of what could happen, because it just doesn't do any good. I know exactly how that feels, but it's just. It's taking two people down instead of one.

Have you had experiences like that where, like when your sons were struggling, did they. Didn't either of them either go like Mia for days?

Yeah. For weeks at a time. At 17. Weeks at a time.

Right. Yeah.

I had no idea where he was. It was awful. And it is super. I remember on Christmas Eve, he came home. He'd been gone most of December, which is his birthday, his dad's birthday, and his sister's birthday, and he came home on Christmas Eve, and I literally made it all about him. Like, went to the grocery store to make. Make sure I had his favorite food. I mean, just out crazy. It's hard not to do that, but when you do that, you're really sort of feeding the disease because you're. He's gonna hear this. He's no big deal. I can come in and out. I can do whatever I want. And I don't. I don't bear. I don't pay any price for it. And then your other children hate that.

Oh, yeah, good point. That's a whole nother video, right? The other characters in the story, the other people in the house and in the family and how they are responding to it, what they're thinking about it.

Oh, yeah. The siblings do not do well with. With parents that are, like, doing what I just did, because they're like, what does it take? I mean, I'm here doing everything. Right, and you're out there making it all about him, who's doing absolutely nothing.

Yeah. Like, I made the honor roll over here. He's been gone for a month, and it's just.

I set the damn table for Christmas Eve, and he just showed up.

Right, Right. A lot of resentment.

It's hard, though. I mean, I. I honestly think the hardest job in the world is having loving a child who. With an addiction. I just. It's the hardest job there is because you can't. You can't divorce your child.

Right.

And you can. You can. People. I hear clients tell me all the time, like, well, I'm just prepared for them to die, and, you know, I don't really care. And I'm like, that's big talk. Big talk. Big talk. Don't think you ever get prepared for that.

There's a couple of people on here. They're saying something about the prodigal son. That's what it feels like. Yeah.

That's what it feels like. Right? Yeah.

I didn't ask you about this topic that I should have asked you. And while Campbell's thinking, I think you're.

Just gonna have to practice this. Getting out of the bad guy world takes practice. You're not gonna do it perfectly. It takes time. And you as you feel better because it is liberating. And you, all of a sudden, you're like, I just feel better. I know everything's terrible out there, but I personally feel better. Is is just something you're just gonna have to say it's worth the practice to get to. It takes time and you're gonna screw it up. Like, you might do it for a little bit and then you'll get all back up in their business and then that's okay. Doing it again. And eventually you'll just get to where you're like, goodbye.

It's a family relapse.

When you.

Thank you for joining us. Anybody that wants to hear more from Campbell, her personal story is on this channel and I'll link it up here when we get off for you. And if you'd like to talk to Campbell and ask her some questions or have a coaching session, I'll put a link in the description that tells you how to get a hold of her because I'm telling you, she's tough as nails. Like, I, I don't know that you have ever dealt with any parent whose kid eventually you didn't get like they did. They all went to treatment. I mean, they're done. That's what I like, tell them like you're done. You might as well give up.

And that's why they give me the, the, the dirt eyes. I walk across the building haters. I actually made it. Remember the one kid who I made it on their, their step four, their list of resentments. Get better.

I was on there a lot of step fours, Campbell. Thank you, guys. We'll see you next Thursday at 1. Bye, everybody.

Thanks, guys.