Does Your Addicted Loved One Continuously Make Promise They'll Never Keep?

People struggling with addiction make lots of promises, and it can be seriously difficult to tell the difference between, are they just trying to manipulate me? Do they really mean it? Are they really trying what's going on here? And. But there is some. But there are some clues that can kind of help. Help you differentiate between is it pure manipulation or do they really mean it, or are they trying. But they're just having a hard time? Because there really could be several scenarios going on there. Oftentimes people struggling with any kind of addiction, you know, they make promises, they make promises to themselves and they make promises to you. And really, most of those promises don't pan out. But just because the promises don't pan out, that doesn't necessarily mean they were just full out trying to manipulate you when they said them. Although it may feel like that because it may feel like you've said that a hundred times, but it never happens. But a big factor here is what's really going on behind the scenes. What is the real intention behind why the person is saying what they're saying? Are they really trying, or are they just sort of lying to you? Or are they just sort of lying to themselves? Well, today we're going to sort of dig through those different options, and I think I'm going to give you some ways to help you figure out which way things might be going in your situation. Now, when you make these promises about what's going to happen in the future and you're just full out lying and manipulating purposefully the other person, There's a term for this, and it's called future faking. Now, this term really is used a lot in the context of like, narcissistic personality disorder. But as many of you know, there's a good amount of overlap between narcissistic personality disorder and substance abuse. And I actually have a video or two about that that's already out there that you can take a look at if you're struggling with. Is my addicted loved one. Do they act this way? Do they act narcissistic because they're addicted and it's a symptom of the addiction? Or are they really, do they really have like narcissistic personality disorder, but they also have an addiction? And it's an important difference to make because to be honest with you, the chances that one of those things are going to get better is pretty good. The chances that the other thing is going to get better is pretty low. So figuring that out is a pretty important question. So I will link that video for you up at the end of this one, in case you're trying to figure that out for yourself and you want to check that out now, I'm going to give you some, like, questions to ask yourself related to these promises. And it's kind of a checklist I want you to go through in your own head to differentiate. Are they lying to me? Are they lying to themselves? Are they really trying, but they're just having a hard time? That's what you're really trying to figure out here. Now, as I. As I go through this list, I want to go ahead and tell you that I am going to allow someone to come on live like I've been doing the past few. We go live every Thursday at 1pm Eastern. And I'm gonna let, depending on how much time we have, at least one of our live viewers come on here and share about their situation. If you want to do that, go ahead and put a number in the chat between 1 and 100, because those of that have been watching regularly. You know, that's how I pick. We take the random number picker and we pick that number. Please just put one number up there. Don't try to put a whole bunch of numbers up there. Let's be fair about it. And remember, if you choose to do that, you are going to be on here, live, on YouTube, on Facebook, publicly. So don't talk about anything you don't want talked about publicly. And you're going to need decent Internet connection and enough light so that we can see you. And then other than that, you should be good. You can use your phone, tablet, laptop. If you're watching this video, the vice, you're watching it on home, probably can do it. So. All right, let's get into our questions that I want you to really think through. You know, you get these promises. These promises are like, you know, I'm gonna stop. I'm never gonna drink again. Or the promises are like, I'm gonna cut back. Or the promises are like, once I get through this really stressful situation, I promise you, this is all gonna be over. Or I promise I'm gonna go to meeting every day and I'm gonna get a sponsor. These are just a few examples of the kinds of promises that you might hear from someone who has an addiction. But be mindful. There are lots of different forms and kinds, but you get the point. They're saying things are going to get better. Or here's what I'm going to promise to do. Like, I'll go to treatment or I'll go to counseling. Or I'll do this or I'll do that. These kind of promises about things getting better. Now, the first thing you got to figure out is are they just flat out telling you what you want to hear and a good question to ask yourself or sort of a thing on the checklist to think about is, did they tell you whatever they told you under pressure? For example, were they really, really, really trying to get something from you, get you to agree to something, get you to give them something? Were they saying it as a bargaining chip because they want something from you? If they're saying it because they want something from you, there's a higher chance that it's future faking, that it's just pure manipulation, or did they say it? Another kind of form of under pressure is did they say it after they are in big, big trouble and they're saying it as a way to sort of plea bargain, I guess you could say, to get themselves into less trouble or to lessen the punishment or consequence or get you to help with the consequence or something like that. Any of those kind of situations, I would call that saying it under, like direct pressure with, with a motive to get something else from you. So that's the first question that you want to ask yourself. The second question that you want to ask yourself is, did the promise sound too good to be true? Like, did they just promise you the world, the whole enchilada, and everything's going to be perfect and fine, I'm going to stop this, I'm never going to look back and everything's going to be great and I'm going to do everything you want me to do and we. Rainbows and sunshine and birds tweeting like Disney or something, right? If it sounds too good to be true and it's a little over the top, I would put my sketch out on that. Now, it could be that they're not being honest with themselves, but usually when someone's being serious, they're not really going to promise you the moon because they know that it's not going to look like that. We'll get in a minute, we'll talk about some situations that might be sort of more on the realistic end along with that plan. Another question on your checklist that you should think through is do they have a realistic plan for making said promise happen? Right. If it's just, you know, they're like severely dependent on whatever substance they're using and, you know, they cannot stop without going to detox, but they have no plans on how to detox, no Plans on how to get sober, stay sober, whatever, learn about anything, probably not going to happen. And again, that one, it's almost like you need some kind of flowchart here because that one could flow down into I'm just flatlined to you, tell you what you want to hear or I'm lying to myself. That one could kind of go both ways too. But if there's absolutely no plan, like zero, like I'm going to do nothing to change, it's more likely that they're just saying something. They're just doing the future, thinking it's just a full flat manipulation. Another one, and this one can be iffy, but I want you to put it on the checklist to ask yourself is, do they get really upset if you ask any other questions about it? Like they say this can happen and that's going to happen and they make all those big promises, but you have some questions about it. Now any person that has an addiction is probably going to be a little defensive. If you drill them and you ask them a million questions and you're being unreasonable in your expectation about it, they may get defensive. So I'm not saying they get defensive at all, but I mean like literally, like you ask any little question about it, bring it up even just from a curious standpoint, not from an attacking standpoint, and they don't talk about it all and they just get mad at you and then they start gaslighting you when you brought it up and then they tell you crazy. And also if that's happening, then that's another check mark in the category of you're more likely to be dealing with just plain old fashioned manipulation. I'm looking over here at my list if you're wondering. The next question I want you to ask yourself is, do they want something from you in return? Is it a bargaining chip? I'll do this if you do X, Y or Z. Now, it's not necessarily terrible if that happens. There are some scenarios I can think of where that might be okay, like, okay, I'll go to counseling, but I want you to go too. That's a pretty genuine thing, right? But if it's like, okay, I promise to get sober, just bail me out and pay for my lawyer and I'm going to come home and I'm going to be perfect. That's a little sketchy. I put my sketch out on that one. So do they, Are they asking for something from you? Again, that's kind of a saying, the promise, under some kind of stress or duress or whatever. And it's just more likely that they're saying that for not the greatest, most genuine reasons. Another question that you can ask yourself, if you're trying to determine are they trying, are they flat out manipulating and feature faking? You can ask yourself, can they articulate to you a believable reason why they want to make this change? Because people that really have real life change talk, they, they, that usually is pretty closely accompanied by the reasons why they want to make that change. And that's a huge, I think, differentiator for you. I mean that should be like a double big check mark for you. If the person is talking to you and they're saying, I'm really sorry I did that. I terrible, I'm really screwing up my life, you know, I really don't want to go to jail. And they're, and they, and they're making this sort of promise, but they're connecting it to a lot of reasons why you can tell that they like really feel those reasons. Then they're probably being more genuine about it. Now, even if someone's being genuine about the promises they make, that doesn't necessarily mean the promises will come true because you still have that other category of, or a couple of other categories of. I'm maybe not being honest with myself, speaking from the addictive person about my ability to be able to do that. So if I'm, if I'm telling you a promise, but I mean it wholeheartedly, but maybe I'm in denial about what it's going to take to do that. That's frustrating and it's saddening from the family member point of view. But it's not maddening like when someone's just flat out manipulating you for evil, selfish reasons or whatever. So you know, you, you need to sort of think about do they seem to have insight and humility. If, if the promise is accompanied by those things, those are good. Like those are good signs, I guess I would say so I would put a, I would put more weight on those types of situations. Now let's move into reasons why the promises may not come true. That, that really aren't just flat out manipulation. Because I see this, honestly, I see this more often than I see flat out lying to loved ones. I see bargaining. A lot of times you'll hear people make promises like, okay, I'm going to get sober for 30 days or I'm going to cut it back. All these things. You guys, if you've been watching me for a while, you know I have all these videos on Bargaining. If. If they're telling you something that's really not exactly what you want to hear, but they're. But they're saying, I'm going to cut it back or sew it down, I'm going to do this and not that, then they're probably bargaining with them. And they may not be able to fulfill that promise, but they're not necessarily trying to trick you or manipulate you. They're just figuring it out, and it's a little bit of trial and error. And maybe they're just not being completely honest with themselves about it, but they're not just being selfish here. And every person I've ever dealt with that got sober and got into recovery from an addiction goes through bargaining phase. So I don't want you to think every single unfulfilled promise is really just. They never meant. Now, an interesting fact here is. And this is. This is kind of like deeper psychology here is a lot of times people will genuinely say to you, I'm gonna be sober, I'm gonna do better, I'm gonna cut it back, or whatever. And then when that doesn't happen and they fail at that, they'll go back in their own mind and decide they didn't mean it because they're trying to almost, like, take back. They're trying to make sense of why it didn't happen. Like, I'll see it happen in situations like where someone, like, goes to treatment, for example, and they get out of treatment and they do good for a little while and then they relapse. And I ask them about it. They'll say, well, I never really meant it, or, you know, I was just trying to get out of trouble, or I was just, you know, doing it for someone else. But usually if someone stays sober for a pretty good length of time after treatment, then they were doing it for themselves and they were really trying. It's almost like a way of saving face, but. But not with someone else, but for yourself, like in your own ego. Like, I didn't make it because I wasn't really trying. It's almost like they'll go back and. And rewrite the history about why it didn't happen. But a lot of times people do mean it when they say it. A good. A good sign that probably they're being honest with you. Whether or not it works out or not is they're not saying exactly what you want to hear. Like, if you're saying, I want you to go to 90 meetings in 90 days, and they're saying, okay, look, I'm I'll go to two meetings a week. They, they may or may not go to the two meetings week. I don't know, there's a lot of factors involved in that. But they're probably not future faking because if they're going to future fake, they'd say, yes, you're right, I'm going. They're just going to say everything you want to hear. That just sounds too good. That goes back to that check mark question of is it too good to be true? Is it like over the top, like wonderful and fantastic and they're saying all the right things. They're saying all the right things. Probably not true. Okay, but if they're saying, well, I know you want me to stop completely, but I'll cut it back to only, you know, on weekends or something like that, they're probably somewhat genuine about that. And I think the evidence of that is because they're not saying what you want to hear. They're, they're trying to think of what they think is fair or they're trying to think of what they think is doable for them. And so to me, those are good signs that someone actually means it, even though hearing it from the family members point of view is very frustrating. Now, knowing that, I really want you to kind of remember that because I want you as family members to stop trying to pressure the person into saying exactly what you want to hear. Because sometimes you're setting yourself up for the future faking if they know you're not going to accept anything other than this certain answer. I'm not saying it's your fault you're getting lied to, but you're not helping the situation. So if you know, I understand why you want perfect sobriety, understand why you want them to go to 90 days of treatment and then 90 means in nine days and then get a sponsoring call every day and work this perfect recovery program. But, but to be honest, that rarely happens exactly perfectly. And even when it does, it usually sort of slowly unravels that way the person doesn't promise to do that all up front and then there's. They just execute on every single promise. It doesn't work like that. So sometimes we're pressuring them to say what we want to hear and so sometimes they sort of give up and they just tell us what we want to hear because they don't know what else to do to get you off their back or because you won't accept anything less. So you can be playing a part in this. If you're getting a Lot of that. You've got to allow people to do a little bargaining even when you know it's not going to work. Like, maybe, you know, it's happens all the time. Like, I know maybe someone needs like residential treatment, but they want to try just going to meetings. I'm gonna let them try that first because if I don't and I just send them treatment, they're gonna go back out and they're gonna try the other way anyway. So you want to let people check off all their ideas off the list, even if you know it's not gonna work. In fact, the faster and easier you let them check them off the list, the faster we'll get through all the bargaining phases and we'll get down to what it's really going to take. So I don't sort of discourage it, I actually encourage it. Try all the things that they think might work first. And I'll say, let's try this, let's try that. And so we can get all off the list. Because it's not until someone gets all the things off the list that they come to terms with. Like, if you want to look at it from an old school recovery perspective, they don't come to terms with I'm powerless until they've tried all their ways. So you gotta let them do that. And that involves letting them tell you some things and agree to some things that maybe isn't exactly what you wanted to hear or maybe even, you know, deep down is probably not going to work because maybe they've tried that before. Now I'm not if, if they've told you the same thing 55 times. I'm not saying you have to let someone go through bargaining like forever. Like there is a point where someone, even in the office, they might send them like, dude, you know, you didn't try that 10 times. And a lot of times I'll be like, yeah, but if they haven't tried it, no, it has to be more than once. Because usually people try their bargains like, like a few times. Like the whole I'm gonna be sober 30 days or something, they'll do that a couple, few times. But if it's like a lot, a lot, that doesn't mean you necessarily have to sort of agree and go along with that. I'm just saying you do have to let people give it a try. We all want to try. We all want to try our way before we're gonna like break down and do the really crappy work that none of us want to do. I mean, that's just natural. And any of us trying to change anything about ourselves would probably do the same thing. As Kiry as that sounds all right, we are getting pretty close to picking our person to come off. So make sure you get your numbers in there 1 to 100. We're going to do the random number picker in just a second. And while we wait, I am going to take a couple of questions that are in the chat and I will also let you guys know that our, our membership, our skills membership program is still open. So if you are not already in that, now is the time to get in it. It's very, very inexpensive. We have never had any kind of community or program that was as inexpensive as is. If you get it right now, it's like $15 a month I think, which is super expensive. And you get positive parent group, you get empowered spouses group, you get recovery to go mini course and you get all of the new membership content each month we go through that are associated with recovery principles and we sort of dissect them and we break them down into skills. And so each month we focus on a different one of those. This past in October, I know October is not over, but this month we've been focused on self awareness. Next month we're going to focus on responsibility. And the really cool thing about that program is you can actually multiple family members can be in that program all at once. Whether you're working on your own recovery or you have a family member recovery. It's a skills based program, not necessarily like a just for the family or just for a person recovery. It's, you know, it's about responsibility, it's about honesty, it's about relationships, it's about communication skills. And those are skills that are very, very helpful for anybody in any part of the situation. And I think other cool thing about it is it's something that can really bring you together as a family. And if you have a loved one who maybe is bargaining, who maybe doesn't want to do the whole thing, this is a pretty small thing to agree to, right? It's like I'm gonna look at some Amber's videos and I might participate in a couple things online. But it gives them the flexibility, gives you, them, whoever the flexibility to think about what they want to integrate. There's nothing that you're going to be made or not made to do.

So.

It'S a small commitment to ask for. But it's a big thing that can bring you together as a family and you can all be working on the same skills, which helps get staying on the same page. All right, let's take a few questions and then we will bring someone on here live with us. Let's see. Hey, Catherine and Jenny and Jeanette. Bridget is here. I see your number on here. Bridget. Louis. Fat at works, man. I need to be looking at your profile. Sue and Kenny, thank you for your kind words. Eva. Here is a question. Luanna. I hope I'm saying that right. I think it's Luanna. My loved one just got out of the hospital. Cirrhosis of the liver, but not liver fail as of now. If he continues to drink, then yes, it will happen. When can I tell him to start AA meetings? Broken promise. Well, Luanna, you're not like what I'm about to tell you. You cannot tell him to start AA meetings. That's not the way that works. Now, if he has said he's going to go to AA meetings, you can ask him, you know, like, when does he think he's going to feel well enough to start them? Or you could think you can ask him, when does he think it might work to go like on a schedule? Like do you think he'll go on like Tuesdays or Thursdays or every day or whatever if he has indicated that he's going to do that. But you can't just tell someone they're going to go to AA meetings. I mean, you could, but I don't advise you to do that even, because it's just going to make the man defensive. But even if you do get them to go because you told them they're going to go, you can't force recovery. You can sometimes force compliance, but you can't force recovery. So a lot of times that'll backfire. Forcing people to go. Because sometimes I'll say I'm going to my meeting and then they'll just be going to the liquor store. A lot of my clients tell me they'll sit in the parking lot outside the meeting and drink. Heard that a lot of times. Or they'll go to the meeting, but they're. They're sitting there and they're not in open minded about it. And they're in a resentful frame of mind. So they're just thinking about how they're not like these people or something, something like that.

So.

So you can ask them about it. Can't tell them to go. So even if I know what you're thinking, you're thinking he's about to die. Like, this is serious. I understand and I believe you. 100%. But even in that dire of a situation, you can't make someone do it. I wish that. I wish that you could. Honestly. I sometimes wish you could make people go to treatment, like legally or whatever, but you can't. And so because there's no legal backup to it, you can't force anybody to do it. Emotionally, it's a bad idea to try to do. Hey, Lydia. Hi, Terry. Terry has a question here. Thank you so much for your videos. Well, you're very welcome. Thank you for your positive feedback. I have a question. My high functioning alcoholic, he admits he's a alcoholic, but says it's a disease and won't stop. I think there might be more. He does have some change talk and has gone from daily drinking to just weekends. And should I hold out hope that he'll stop or accept that he'll always drink. Okay, this is funny. Terin, last night, my son, he's in the fifth grade, we're doing spelling words. One of his spelling words was contradict. And this just came to my mind because I was trying to explain to him what contradict meant. And you what you're telling me your husband said that would be the definition of contradict? Because if he says it's a disease, but he also says he's going to cut it back, those two statements or ideas don't jive. There's some disconnect in there because if you believe in the disease model, then you believe you're sort of. There's some. There's some other sort of things that come along with that, like powerlessness. It's out of your control. Once you start, you can't stop. And I'm not even a huge disease model fan. But if he's saying it's a disease, that does not fit with the I'll just drink on weekends. But that being said, I'm not telling you that to tell him that. Do not tell him that. I'm just telling you that just because it was first thing came to mind. But what you should do is you should say, I'm really proud of you for wanting to cut it back. And you should encourage him to try to cut it back to weekends. Now, it's probably not going to work, and that's okay because that's part of the process of figuring it out. And when that doesn't work, he's gonna figure out it doesn't work. But you don't want to be the one to say that's not gonna work. Like sometimes I don't really advise, like family members to do this. But sometimes in sessions, when people tell me they're gonna try something like that, I'll say, I gotta be honest with you here. A lot of my clients end up figuring out that it just doesn't work. And honestly, they end up figuring out that it's, like, way harder to use less than to use none. But I think every person needs to kind of figure out what they're comfortable with. So I'll kind of, like, plant the seed that this may not work. And. And one of the do that isn't, because I think they're gonna be like, oh, you're probably right. I shouldn't draw that. That never happens. But it's almost like I'm gonna give them permission to admit to me that it didn't work when it doesn't work. So it's like, I'm gonna go ahead and sort of preemptively stamp out the shame button, because I'm gonna say, hey, if it doesn't work, it's okay. Like, give it a try. And that will give them permission to come back and say, you know what? That just didn't work easier, so. Because they won't feel like I'm saying, I told you so, or they won't feel like they failed. And other people don't fail, because, to be honest with you, everybody fails at that. So I set that stage, and you can. There are some things that you might can say, Terry, that can kind of open that up. You can say, let's try it. And you can say, if it doesn't work, we'll figure out the next thing that will work. But you want to encourage him to make those changes that he thinks will work, because it's part of the process of change. It's. It feels slow. And I know you want to hurry it up, and I know you just want him to say, I'm done with it forever. But when you try to force it to speed up, you literally slow it down, like, by years. So it may feel like, I don't want to wait. But if you will work the steps like I'm telling you to do them, he'll actually move them much faster. And to be honest, he'll probably get through them in six months or a year. He'll come around to it. Sometimes they do faster, but usually by a year of working the way that I work with clients, and definitely they come around to them. They figured out. And I know you're thinking, oh, my gosh, a year. That sounds forever. If you don't do it this way, you're probably looking at never working or like 10 years. So it may feel long, but I'm telling you, it's really the shortcut. All right, let's see. Vicki says, my loved one has been absent from Fed family gatherings for the past five years. He would occasionally say that he would join the family, but always failed to show up. I never pressured him as that future faking. That's a good question. And that's a really common example, Vicki. So I'm glad that you said that. I don't know. I think you have to go back to the check mark questions and say, did he just say it because he felt like that's what he should say? I know you're saying you didn't pressure him, but is he saying because he feels like it's. Right answer. Because it's, It's. It's could be strongly likely that he means it when he says it, but his life is so unmanageable, you just can't get there. And that's why when you're dealing with someone that's an addict or an alcoholic, it's like they never. They don't show up. Or if they do show up, it's really late, or it's really late and they're really messed up and they make a mess of it. And it's definitely. It's almost like special events are even more of a setup for that kind of situation. So it's a common thing. It doesn't necessarily mean he's. He's faking, especially if you say, listen, it's okay if you don't want to, or if it's, you know, it's not a good time. You give him the out and he still says it, and he probably means it, but he just doesn't understand. Is life so manageable that it probably won't happen? All right, let's pick our number. We got a good amount of numbers up there today. That's exciting. Get to my little number picker on my phone. Here we go. Or we start with zero and we shake it. Oh, 99. Oh. Who's got the biggest number? Okay, gemma, you've got 76. Is that the biggest one? You guys, help me. Tell me who's got the biggest number on here so far. 76 is the biggest one. I see. 65 is close. All right, I think it's Gemma at 76. So what I'm going to do, Gemma, is I'm going to put the link in the chat, and all you have to do is Click the link and then you'll be up here with me and we can chat. So here comes the link. All right, while we wait for Gemma, we'll take. I see a question here from Debbie. Debbie says, what if the weekend only drinking has gone on for a year? What can I do to help him get unstuck? Is he sticking with the weekend drinking? Is it working? Because if it's working, that's why it's lasting so long, because this plan is working. Usually it doesn't work because it creeps into the. It creeps back into, you know, it's like, well, you know, Monday's a holiday sucker Monday. Or, well, you know, getting off work on Friday and that, that's the start of the weekend. It's almost like the weekend just sort of like bleeds into the week. But if he's actually managing to keep it to the weekend, then in his mind it's working. And that's probably why it's still going on. Because if it's not doing that, then there might be some conversations. The next time he says that, then I might say a question like, okay, but if it, if it doesn't work this time, can we talk about something else? And then he'll say, yes. And then that leaves you the opening to re. Engage that conversation when it doesn't really work this next five minutes time he started, or whatever. All right, we have Gemma here. Hi, Gemma. Hi.

Yeah, you are, yeah. Can you, can you hear me? Okay, I can.

Where are you from? You have accent.

Bristol, uk.

And sophisticated.

Well, no, sadly not. I've been watching your stuff for a while and it's so helpful because it, it, it makes intuitive sense. We've kind of gone. It's my sister and so we've kind of gone really, really hardcore with her and that's not worked. And then we've been very permissive and that's not worked. So I've only just come across your stuff and I really, really like what I'm hearing and I need to find out a bit more about it. So I've asked whether people in the UK can do the course. That's one of the questions I had. But the, the situation, which I won't, I'll keep brief, is that my sister's 42, she is extremely unwell, alcoholic. She has been unwell on and off for about 15 years, but she. She lives at home with my elderly parents and she's very abusive when she's drunk, which is most the time she can't remember it. I've been encouraging them to call the police. They did in fact have to call the police because she got so abusive. But the fact is she has got nowhere to go and she would be on the streets if it wasn't for being at my parents. I can't have her here. I've got two young kids and so my parents and I are in a situation where she'd either be on the streets and she'd die because she's so vulnerable, or they put up with this because there's no other way to go. She, she did try for the first time to try and come off it, but she did it without medical intervention and she had three major seizures. And the message she's got from that is that she has to keep drinking because it's her medicine, otherwise she'll become unwell. And I just don't know. I don't know what to do. I don't know what to do.

How recent was the, her attempt to, to stop drinking? I know it didn't go well, but. Was it. You said recently.

Three weeks.

Three weeks. Okay.

She meant it. She really meant it.

That's a, that's a pretty strong commitment. And the fact that she stayed over, she had this. It does tell me that she's in at least a con. I mean, actually she's in an action stage of change. It just didn't work because she's, she's not being honest that she's going to need some medical intervention. Alcohol is one of the more dangerous things to stop and having seizures is dangerous and so is what.

She almost died. She was very, very, very, very unwell.

She's opposed to like a medical detox for some reason. Like she doesn't want to take a medication to help or anything.

She, she's very anti vax, very anti medication. So she, she's, you know, she'll drink what she drinks, but she won't have a liver scan in case it gives a cancer. It's kind of like that. So I, I think the, the issue with us really is that in the nhs, it's amazing. But she won't get onto any NHS funded treatment unless she engages with alcohol support services, which is kind of broken down and medical treatment for us as a family is out of our reach. So I think that's kind of one of the issues. I mean, you know, I've offered to get a loan, I've offered to get a credit card. She won't do it because she doesn't want to see me in me in debt. But I don't think there's any other way to do it.

I wouldn't get a loan or a credit card to do it. And I say that because even if she did do it, it's very likely that it's going to take more than once and you can't just keep doing that. You know what I mean? Like, if. If I thought, okay, if she goes, it's going to fix it. I'll tell you to do that. You know how to tell your grands, you know, yeah, refunds, your house or whatever, but it usually takes more than once. So I wouldn't put yourself in that kind of financial jeopardy for one time. I just wouldn't. Help me understand a little bit more, Gemma, about how things work in the uk, because you're talking about, I guess, sense that there's a sort of a certain way that it works. Maybe that's different over there than over here.

So there's very, very, very little free nhs, free treatment for people with addiction. So where I live in the whole of the south of England, I think there's something like 12 beds, and that includes opiates and all the rest of it.

Are you serious?

I'm serious. The funding is really bad, so a lot of alcoholics and this is my kid now. Hang on, darling. I'm just speaking. It's that a lot of people, they're treated in the community. Do you want to. Do you want a yogurt? I'm so sorry. Okay. This is like this yogurt. There you go, off you go. Sorry. Yeah. So basically there's very, very little free. Free stuff around and we just can't afford it at the moment. That's the problem. That's the problem. And so I can't. I can't really see a way out of it. And I'm so desperately worried about my parents just gonna open this yogurt.

I'm so sorry. It sounds like there's several sort of roadblocks.

Yeah.

One of them is that she's a little bit paranoid about taking any kind of medication or getting any kind of health care. So there's sort of a medical health care fear there. And then the other is that there's not. And when you're saying there's not many beds, then you're talking about inpatient treatment, which normally would be. Would be what you would need in a medical detox. You may be able to find a physician on an outpatient basis, though, that would prescribe her something over the course of a couple of weeks to help her stop Sometimes physicians are reluctant to do that because it is dangerous if they do drink on it. But. But sometimes you find a physician that will do that. If she really tried to the point she had a seizure, she was trying really hard. She can't do it. Like, she's. Theoretically, she could taper down every day until she stopped, but that doesn't fit with alcoholism. Like, if we could do that, it's not gonna work.

That's the issue. So what they've said is, is that she. She came from four bottles of wine to 12 cans of cider, and then she came 12, 10, over 12 days. Right. But now they're saying she's got to do 12, 11, 12, 11, 12, 11,. 11, 10, 11, 10, 11, 10. Until she gets that, you're talking six, six, seven months. And so she's now gone. Excuse my language, she says, I can't do that, she says. And so she's drinking more now because it. It feels so impossible to her. So I just.

It's a fairly unrealistic ask of someone who has alcoholism. Yeah, I understand medically that would work, but. But if they could taper it back, they would. And especially, like, weeks and weeks and weeks to expect someone to have that solid of willpower and be that structured and disciplined, I feel like that's unrealistic. And so I'm kind of on her side about that a little bit.

Me too. Me too. So. And so it's interesting to hear. It's so interesting to hear it from you, because I. I think realistically, the only issue, the only way we can do it is pay privately, but it's going to be one, two, three times. And so.

But if it's. If it's privately, and you could find a physician that would put her on an outpatient detox med to help her taper.

Okay, that's good.

To go to see the doctor and get a prescription medication for a couple of weeks, like, that would be much more doable. It may be.

Okay.

Sort of difficult to find that, but. But my guess is you could probably find that. You can find it here. You just have to look around.

Yeah, okay.

Because she is trying. And so. Because she's. She's obviously seriously trying, I wouldn't give up just yet. Now, that doesn't mean you should come up with abusive behavior, because if you've seen my videos, there are some lines in the sand that you just don't do, and that's one of them. But. But I would look for that. The other option, which is also medication. So she Might be opposed to.

It would be.

There's a medication called naltrexone. And then they also have that same medication in a once a month injection. It's called Vivitrol. And so there's a method out there of stopping drinking. That medicine helps. It's a different way of doing it. It's not my favorite way, but you guys need an alternative way. So I'm just telling you about it. It's a medicine that when you drink on it, it makes drinking a lot less pleasurable. So it makes you like it less. Kind of like the way Chantix. People used to take Chantix a while back to stop smoking. Like you could still smoke, but it's kind of like you just liked it less. So you cut way back. Yeah, that might be another avenue that could help get it at least to greatly reduced down to the point that she maybe could stop. Yeah, that might be an alternative.

I think that's it. I think, I think that's so helpful. Thank you. Because for me, the, the issue for her now is the time she can't do it. And it's made her worse. The parent, the paramedics said alcohol is your medicine. And that's just it.

It is. I mean, there's, there's some truth in that. Their medicine and her poison. And the point is she's so dependent on it. I understand why the doctor's saying, you know, theoretically you could come down like that and you'd be medically safe, but psychologically, from an alcoholism perspective, it doesn't work. If you could control your drinking like that, we wouldn't be to this point.

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So that. It's really good to hear that validated because that's, that's what I see. And so those alternatives I will definitely talk about with her. You know, we've gone. We've gone from her hiding the drinking, we've gone from. You know, the whole family's really open about it now. She drinks with us, we don't stop her doing it. Hang on, darling. So I think not making it secretive is a good thing. I won't be very. Sweetie, can you give me two minutes? I'm just talking about Auntie Lucy's sick, remember? Okay, one minute, please. I'm really sorry. I better go. I'm so sorry.

We're finished up. But thank you for sharing that.

Thank you.

I would validate your sister's frustration and say we're really proud of you for trying. And let's. We realize that's unrealistic. Let's look for something else.

Brilliant. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you.

All right, everybody. Thank you, Gemma, for so much for coming on and sharing that with us. I will link up here at the end. I'm going to link up that video that I told you. That's sort of the difference between narcissistic personality disorder and addiction. And I'm also going to link up my playlist on manipulation, because the the unfulfilled Promises is just one form of manipulation. There are several other forms of it. And I'm going to put my playlist up about that so you can learn to recognize manipulation tactics when you see them and learn how to respond to them differently. Thank you, everybody who watched live and everybody who's watching on the playback. And I will see you guys next week.