Early Recovery From Addiction (Avoid These 3 Major Pitfalls!)

Early recovery is a super vulnerable period for everybody involved, for the person who's in early recovery and for the family who's in early recovery, which is why we are so lucky today to have, I call him an expert witness. We've got Scott here who is in family recovery and who is also a family recovery coach. And he's here to share with us some of his experiences about the major pitfalls that can happen, especially during like times of transition and what to look forward to, what's a reasonable expectation and how to navigate all that without everything falling apart. Because I do think transitions, that's where people fall through the cracks. All right, Scott, talk to us about it.

Well, having gone through 2 sons that have been, I don't know, somewhere around 10 rehabs, That they may not transition, especially if they're over, you know, 20, 22 years old. Hopefully they don't transition back to your house. Hopefully they transition in an apartment or somewhere with other sober living individuals. But it's a hard time. And, you know, you hear the fact that the first, the hardest 30 days of rehab many people consider are the first 30 days. But many people will consider the second hardest 30 days of rehab is the transition period. And so I think, uh, you know, I think we got some tips and tricks today to talk to families about, uh, because one thing we want families to understand, what is the rehab talking to your, uh, to your addicted loved one about, about their transition? So that if we know a little bit about what they're hearing and what the, what the rehab is working with them on, on their transition, maybe it'll help us handle it a little bit better.

Absolutely. Because I, I do think there's this, there's this competing pressures going on with the person trying to manage their recovery. And then, and all the anxieties that you have as a person in early recovery mixed in with all the anxieties that your family has. And sometimes that can collide.

Yes.

And so I'm going to say that's the number— that's our first big pitfall that can happen in early recovery is understanding each other's perspective, right?

Exactly.

Okay, so I'll let you talk to us about the family perspective on that, and I'll talk to us about the addicted person perspective on that. We'll, we'll try to cover both bases here.

Sure. Well, you know, with, with the family, obviously it's a very fearful time, right? You kind of got to relax, hopefully, during the few months or weeks, however long they were in rehab. You kind of got to take a little bit of break, right? Because they were handling it.

Is that when they're calling, begging you to come get them every 30 minutes? Besides that, it was good.

Besides that, hopefully you got to relax a little bit. But during training, you know, when they are transitioning out, uh, your, your fears certainly go way up because you don't know how it's going to go. Um, and, and so what happens is we kind of relapse sometimes as parents, right? We've been going to our program, hopefully we've been learning what we need to do during all this, and then all of a sudden transition happens and we kind of relapse and sometimes want to get back on the roller coaster of the craziness that we were in before they ever went to rehab. And that's what we absolutely don't want you to do. We want you to try to relax. It's a weird time, right? Especially if it's a spouse moving back in the house and maybe they've been gone for 6 months. It's a weird time for a few days. It's even weird if they're not living with you because it's just, it's different. You're kind of getting back into hopefully a normal, so-called normal routine. But just maybe identifying the fact that, hey, this, This is a little weird for me as a family member. Um, but you don't want it to be so weird that you're walking on eggshells and that you're acting totally different. And now all of a sudden you're raising their anxiety and it just kind of snowballs on the whole family.

Right. And I think on that point of the, the weirdness that you're making, which is just so true, I think it's— and I say this all the time, it's like both sides don't trust the other side.

Yeah.

So both sides are watching the other side like Exactly. But, but we're pretending to be nice. Yep. Which I'm for. Pretend to be nice. I say keep doing that. Try to pretend to be nice without being awkward.

Exactly.

Can you just be casually pretending to be nice? It's okay to pretend to be nice because sometimes that's what you got to do to get back to neutral, right?

Exactly.

So that's that weirdness, right? It's like, what do we talk about? What do we bring up? What do we say? And both angles feel that, you know, it's coming from both sides, not just the family but from the addicted person too.

Yeah, well, I thought you brought up a good point, Amber, when we were preparing for this a little bit, as you were talking about how, uh, you know, during transition, certainly some depending on the rehab, but they may actually have them, uh, have the addict, uh, read their recovery plan to the family. Uh, they may actually give the recovery plan to the family so you see it in writing and stuff. But I think sometimes the family thinks, okay, I'm gonna be the monitor of this recovery plan and I'm gonna make sure that you follow it to a T. Well, that doesn't work. What the rehab is telling them is that you have to own your own recovery. So that's up to your loved one is to own their recovery. We can certainly be supportive and loving and kind and nice, like you said, through it. But if we start trying to manage that and monitor it and own it ourselves, It's not going to be good, probably. It's going to cause some issues.

I find that as far as those plans and stuff are concerned, recovery plans, expectations are usually a little too high on both sides, actually. Yeah. Because when you're in rehab, well, a couple of things. One thing is, and I worked in a facility, so I'm going to tell y'all, this is how it goes. This is behind the scenes. They have you fill out those recovery plans so they can put that in the chart and they can prove they told you what to do and not to do. Okay? So you need to understand some of That big old written out thing is a treatment center thing. Okay. Not that the things on it are not true, but what ends up happening is it's like you help the person develop these big fabulous plans that just sound like wonderful. I'm going to be in here a day. I'm going to call my sponsor down. I'm going to meditate 3 times a day. I'm going to whatever. And it's just like not doable.

Yep.

Sometimes the person that's in the rehab, they know that, especially if it's not their first time, and they just know they're filling out the form. So they don't even mean it. Sometimes the person means it, and they're just kind of like in a pink cloud and they think, I'm just going to do this. It's going to be great. But then they read that to the families or the families see that as part of the discharging process usually. And then the families think, okay, this is the plan. And then as soon as that person comes home, And they like missed the meeting or they missed their meditation, one of them or something. That's where things are going to fall apart.

That's when things go bad. Well, you and I talked about one, one of them in the planning process is like, uh, one of the things that the rehab is talking to the addict about is staying in a routine. So they've been at a routine probably in their, in their program, and they talk about staying in routine. That's obviously positive for Any individuals to have some type of routine. But certainly they're talking to the addict about that. And then as soon as the addict comes home and sleeps till noon on a Saturday, it's like, oh my God, he's relapsed. Well, that's not the case. They're not maybe going to stick to the routine every day. But certainly the rehab is talking to them about a routine. They're talking to them about don't give your family or your roommates reason to worry about you. So like if they, you know, in the first few weeks, if they're leaving the house, it's courteous for to say, hey, I'm going so-and-so, and I'll be back at 9 or 9:30 tonight. Just to kind of— and so the addict understands that the family may be a little uptight about this, about them leaving, or their roommates. So I think the addicts hearing this— so we don't, as family members, we don't need to ask them where they're going, who you're— when are you coming back. All that kind of stuff just raises the anxiety, makes you feel like you're now the monitor and the The craziness that you did before they ever went to rehab starts to trickle back in.

But Scott, what if they don't do that like the rehab told them to do?

That's okay.

Is it okay?

Yeah.

Ask.

It's their recovery, right? So we can— as much as we were the police and the monitor before they ever got to rehab, we know how that didn't work pre-rehab. It's not going to work Post-rehab either. So no, those things do not seem to work.

Just like you do not want them going back to any of their old behaviors, you are responsible for not going back to any of your old behaviors. Because what happens is, is when one does, it triggers the other, and then it's just like a back and forth feedback loop, bad cycle. So exactly, even if the family drops off, starts acting crazy, doesn't mean you have to get on a roller coaster. And vice Versa. If, if the other side won't get back on, it won't last long.

That's right.

But if somebody falls off, whichever one does first, and then the other one falls off, oh Lord, here we go. We arguing, we're fighting. We're like, screw you, I'm just gonna get high because you think I'm gonna get high anyway. And then it's just like, it's back on. It's on. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So understand that plans are important, but also have a little flexibility to understand that plans never go exactly As we think they're going to on either side.

Yeah, I think patience, you know, I, I, yeah, I think patience is a big key here. We got to have patience. They, and they, they have to have patience as well. But I think as a family member, patience is a big, it's something that ought to be on the forefront of your mind during that period.

Right now, Scott, another thing I know you were naming was in, in one of the big high-risk dangerous situations is just triggers.

Yeah.

And looking at understanding your triggers and how rehab, you know, if someone's in a program, they're talking to you about those things.

Yeah, you've certainly worked on that during your weeks or months in rehab, right? And so normally in a recovery plan, there is a lot of information in there about your triggers, identifying them and writing them down even maybe, and having a plan for them. And the triggers could be around money, it could be around the phone or social media, it could be around A bad set of friends, or it could be around a girlfriend or a boyfriend. So those triggers are identified. And believe me, the rehab has talked and worked at length with your loved one during the recovery period on those triggers. So for us as family members, we don't need to ask about, you know, who are you— if you see them texting over there, who are you texting? Or who did you just get off the phone with? Or when they leave the house, are you going to see— You know, Joe Bob, uh, the, the bad, the bad guy that, uh, he maybe had before. Try to stay away from all that because believe me, if, if they're gonna work their recovery and they're gonna be successful in recovery, they've got a plan to avoid all that.

Right.

Um, and then there's other ways, like, you know, one of the typical things we hear is that, okay, now, now that they're home, they're working, and now they've got money.

Oh yeah.

Um, what do we do about the money? Do I, do I need to help manage their money? If any of those things that we talked about being triggers, especially money, you know, I was the one that used to go on and look at Zach's phone bill to see— I could look at our phone bill at 6 o'clock in the morning. I looked to see who he was texting at night, who he was calling, and I certainly looked at his account and I could tell where things were going wrong. So if Zach asked me to manage his money coming out of transition, I'm not the person to do that because it would draw me right back into being that monitor. And I would probably now go on his account 15 times a day to see, oh God, he just spent $10 at the convenience store. I wonder if he bought kratom, or I wonder if he bought something wrong. So you can use other people to do that. It could be a sibling, but more important, it's up to that addict to get somebody to support him in that. Maybe it's his sponsor.

Mm-hmm.

There's also other apps, there's things, or, uh, there's cards out there. There's one called TruLink, and it's specifically for addicts that, that they, um, they actually can't use it at convenience stores to buy alcohol. Um, they can't withdraw money at an ATM machine. There's things that might help, uh, you know, help be that transition period for them, uh, to give them a chance to have more success.

Right, if they can provide the accountability, and but you don't have to do it.

You don't have to be the accountability, right? Uh, we all know if they want to go buy drugs, you can get them TruLink, you can get them everything in the world, they're going to go get it if that's what they want to do. But there are some things that might help, um, you know, help them guard against some of that.

I think as the, as the family, we're so concerned with what the other person's triggers are, it's easy to get involved in trying to manage their triggers.

Exactly.

But you need to make a list as a family member, what are your triggers? Exactly. And you need to manage your triggers. Like maybe what, like what Scott is saying, a trigger of his was managing the money. Yeah. So managing the money may be a trigger for the addicted person, but it's also a trigger for the family member. So you kind of got to like differentiate whose trigger is it and whose responsibility is it to manage it on both sides.

Well, Amber, we encourage families too. Like we obviously encourage families to get into support groups, whether it be Al-Anon or your local, some type of local family support group. I know when Zach first went to rehab, I never went to a family group because I didn't have any issues. He was the one that had the problem, and I was sending him off to get him fixed. Well, obviously, I learned along the way that I had some things to work on and how things that I needed to improve and how I was adding to the chaos. And so, but but the second time around when he went to rehab, when he got out, I kind of quit going to my family group because I thought things were better. He had been gone for six months, and I didn't think I needed it. It's just almost the opposite, I think, especially during that transition period. Certainly is a time for you as a family member to continue to work on you so that you don't—

Because that's where your triggers are going to come from.

That's where your triggers come from. Yeah. Being able to go and talk to other families during this transition process, I think, is really helpful. I think families don't need to forget that. They need to continue going to their program.

Right. We call that, you know, man, taking care of your side of the street, right? On both sides, taking care of your side of the street.

Exactly.

Now, Scott, another bucket of things I know you were talking about that can go wrong is relationship stuff. Because of all that uncomfortable tension that's happening and that awkwardness, there's some relationship pitfalls that are— that you got to watch out for. Yeah.

One of the questions we get asked about a lot from families is, um, If they hadn't made amends with you yet, uh, let's say they come back home and they've been home for a couple of weeks.

I want my apology, Scott. Exactly.

I've been waiting. Exactly. And they, you know, they haven't apologized for wrecking, uh, 4 cars and, uh, all the money that they've cost you. Families start to get, uh, maybe a little resentful of that, and they're like, well, either he's— either he's hadn't got— either he's got— hadn't got to step 9 yet, so that means he's not working his AA program, and Should he have apologized yet? What I've learned over my boys making amends or not making amends is that just let it go. If at the time that it's right, they'll make amends. It may be that they're already worked step 9, but they're so shameful, they're so full of guilt over how they've hurt you, they may not have come to grips of how to come talk to you yet. So just let that go a little bit. That doesn't mean that they're not working their steps. It doesn't mean that it's not on the forefront of their mind. It just maybe means the timing is not right for them yet, right? And so rather than us building up all that resentment and getting so worked up ourselves, I think we just have to let that go.

I want my apology, Scott.

I'm still waiting on a few, and it's been a— it's been a few years.

Another thing you said I thought that was a really good one, Scott, was just that, um, The family wants the person to talk about their recovery a lot to the family.

Yeah, well, I can, uh, I can tell you that, uh, many rehabs might be, uh, telling the addict otherwise. Uh, a lot of times as family members, we're too emotional about it, right? And we don't have the experience of going through that ourselves in most cases. Sometimes families do, but in my case, I did not have the experience. But sometimes, yeah, the, you know, the addict certainly has their avenues to go talk to. First and foremost is their sponsor. Secondly, they hopefully they're going to some meeting on some occasion, and they certainly have their, their AA group or whatever meeting that they're going to. But the addicts certainly don't want to talk about rehab in most cases. Now, if they do want to talk about it, I think it's good to lend that ear and listen to them, right?

If they do want to talk about it, do not be sitting there waiting for them to say one wrong thing and pounce, because that's the surefire way to make sure they don't talk to you about it again.

Exactly, exactly. But, uh, but for, you know, for the most— I, I would say the majority of addicts don't want to go into a lot of detail about the, the 6 months that they just spent in rehab. Uh, it may take a while, or they may never talk about it. But I think it's normal for— again, I want parents to know It's normal for a counselor maybe to be talking to them and saying, hey, uh, you know, I wouldn't be sharing a lot with my family because they're, they're too emotional about it. And, and, you know, certainly during rehab, as you know as a counselor, they've probably told the counselor for the last 6 months how crazy mom and dad were during all this. And, uh, certainly they don't want to get back into, into talking about that.

Well, I see families say this a lot. They say If you want to drink, if you want to use, just pick up that phone and call me. Yeah, I think that's ridiculous. Sorry, family. Yeah, I, I don't even tell my clients that because if somebody wants to drink or use, they're not gonna call you. And if they were gonna call somebody, which they're probably not, it is not going to be you as the family member. They're gonna call me before you.

Exactly.

But even then, that's like a, a long shot. And then, and plus, it's like, if they tell me they want to use, I'm just like, dude, I know, right? Like, you know, and, and we talk through it. If they tell you they're wanting to drink or they almost stopped at the liquor store on the way home or something, you're just gonna— it's gonna trigger you. So think about, number one, do you really want them to tell you? And can you handle it? And don't be upset when they don't tell you, because that's the thing. Why don't you tell me? Like, Exactly. Be real.

You know, maybe on the other side of that is, is, uh, you know, certainly I think a lot of times they've been taught during their recovery, a lot of times is to take some time alone, uh, maybe meditation, certainly internal thoughts, um, how to— because I know like with, with Zach, he was one of those guys that he never wanted to be by himself. And, and because obviously he was trying to He didn't like being by himself. That's why he tried to, you know, cure some of it with alcohol and drugs. But certainly they try to teach you how to be by yourself, uh, and maybe meditate, those kind of things. So if they do come home and you see that maybe, well, he's never went and sat in his room for an hour, well, maybe he's meditating. Maybe he's doing internal, you know, uh, thoughts, working on himself, getting his mind, uh, clear, working on his recovery. Now, certainly we don't want him to isolate for days. Uh, but just sometimes parents, I think, get a little worked up about maybe seeing a little bit of a change. Maybe they're trying to spend a little bit time alone. So that's nothing.

They got the door shut, Scott. What should I do? Exactly.

Yeah, because we're so fearful, right? We almost kind of want to keep that eye on them 24/7 when they first get home, and that doesn't seem to help.

I, I just think the big message is on both sides To the best that you can, try to have some kindness, understanding, and grace for the other side. Okay? And I mean that for the person in early recovery too. Like, your family's going to mess up too. Okay? I'll tell your family, your person's going to mess up. Doesn't mean they're not going to get it. Doesn't mean nothing's wrong. Your family's going to lose it too. They're going to snoop. They're going to tell you a lie. They're going to tell you they did not drive by that meeting when they did.

Yeah.

And I just want you to forgive them for it, okay? Like, you just— let's have a little understanding on both sides best we can, and that will help us continue to move forward instead of get stuck and backtrack into that badness, you know?

Exactly. Yeah, totally agree with that.

Let's see if anybody has some questions. Let's see what kind of questions they got— you guys got for our expert witness here. Let's see, Mickey has a question. It says, question for family members: when a loved one relapses, what should you do or not do? If we ignore it, they keep going. If we say something, it can go either way. Very hard to stand back and suffer through it. For sure, Mickey.

Yeah.

All right, Scott, what you got on it?

Well, relapse, I've certainly been through a few, um, and, and certainly made my mistakes going through some of those. Um, I think What you have to realize as a family member, that relapse can be part of your journey, right? It's not gonna be a straight line. There's gonna be ups and downs, and relapse may be a part of that. I would try to encourage your loved one if they do relapse that, hey, you've done this before, right? You went and got treatment before, or you figured out how to stop before and go get help, and just encourage them that they can do it again. Not shame them, not belittle them, not tell them how, oh my God, I can't believe you've done this. We just sent you to 6 months of rehab and here you have relapse. That doesn't help. So shaming and all that, I would definitely stay away from that. I would just try to encourage them.

Right. You go into damage control mode, Mickey. And I actually have a good video. I've got a whole playlist on relapse, but there's one video specifically that talks about what to do as a family member when you see that. And your job is to really narrow it down to something simple, not to get back on the roller coaster with them. You don't have to ignore it, right? But if you go crazy, you're just going to speed it up.

Yeah.

Right.

And believe me, the first few times it happened to us, I kind of went crazy and I didn't help. But I learned after a couple, again, you're not, you're You're not supporting it, you're not condoning it, but you just, in my opinion, you just have to be supportive. I know the last time Zach relapsed was really bad and an OD. And I could just tell that he obviously didn't mean to go and relapse and almost die.

Right.

And all I was is just supportive. And I said, hey, you're the only one that can fix this. I love you and I'm here to help in any way, but you're the only one that can do this.

Right.

But I tried to be supportive and just let him know that I loved him.

You know, even, um, last— I think it was like last Thursday or Friday maybe— I got a— I have a client who works out of state or whatever, and, uh, he struggles with alcoholism. And I got a text from his girlfriend and she said his name— we'll call him Scott— Scott's at the bar again, I don't know what to do. And I saw that message and I almost just had to breathe myself because I was upset for her because, I mean, this guy's done so well, and, and I— and he's just got so many good things going for him now. And I was just upset for him because, because immediately, even as the counselor, I just go into that like, God, I just see so many people lose everything for this. I don't want him to lose his girlfriend who's so great. Don't want him to lose his job.

Yeah.

I had to like wait for a minute before I could even answer her back, and then I had to remind myself It's not, it's not the end of the world. This guy's done great for like 9 months. He's had 2 lapses in 9 months. And so I can't even in my own mind think, oh, it's over, you know? And I have to remember it's my job to talk to him and be like, dude, just get back on track. Like, it's not like you lost today. Okay, now we're, we're, we're back in the game. You know, that's our job.

Well, you know, Amber had a similar—

Damage control.

We had a similar case, uh, last week with a family at the rehab that I volunteer at. And it was a 40-something-year-old that has relapsed a few times. But he, he, uh, he relapsed a few months ago, but he got right back and got back going again and found out Tuesday night that he had relapsed again. And I felt so sorry for his mom. Um, she was devastated again, but she actually took it better and she said, you know what, he did this 3 months ago and then he went 3 months sober. So I feel like he's going to go 3 months sober and hopefully even longer this time. So it, it does hurt, it kicks you in the gut, but I think, yeah, you know, you have to be positive. You have to say, hey, you can do this.

Right. Because if you're the person that's having the relapse, if you in your own mind start thinking, I've screwed it up now, I've blown it, I've ruined it, I've got to start all over, you're going to keep going. Yeah. And so the first thing I try to do as their counselor is say, uh-uh, you have not screwed it up. But please, like, you didn't even get a DUI this time. Like, come on, get back on track.

Exactly.

And as the family member, that's what I want you to do too. I don't want you to go into that because I'm trying to get them to fight that thought because, because when they have that, they get the— I call it the effets, and then it's on. Now it's like a full-blown thing.

Yeah.

So it's containment.

Yeah.

It's containment. Yeah. All right, let's see. My son continues to lie about so many things he doesn't even need to lie about. I tried to step out of the way. He's doing a lot right but still doing a lot wrong. How do I handle that?

You know, uh, my son used to— I've literally caught my son. I would— he would call and say he was at McDonald's when he was at Hardee's, and he was merely only eating. It didn't matter, you know, he would lie about what fast food restaurant he was at, and it didn't make any sense. So the lies is a big part of it.

Um, it's habit.

It's habit.

You're saying it's the garden secrets and making sure you're like, no one knows what you're doing. You're— it's just like literally automatic. And it takes a while to make that stop.

It takes a while. So, you know, if they're in early recovery, they are probably going to tell you a few lies. Doesn't mean that they've relapsed. Doesn't mean that they're heading for a relapse. Now, again, if they're— if it's constant lies, then maybe that is a little bit of a warning sign. But are they going to continue to tell a few lies? Sure. That takes a while to get out of.

I've got a video I just recorded. It's not out yet, but it's about when to call a lie out, when not. Yeah, because it's not always necessary to call a lie out, people, right? Most time not. Yeah. Um, and I also want to say this too, families, let's get real now. You know you're still lying to them too, because you know you're still sneaking and stooping and doing some stuff you shouldn't know. You know you done told Grandma and you told them you didn't tell Grandma, and like all that stuff. So come on now, let's be fair.

Yeah, we don't do that. We don't lie as parents.

Okay. Okay. We had, we had a couple in our office, me and Campbell, having a session this week, and the, the spouse had thrown away the, um, the substance, and the person was so mad. She's like, I can't believe you lied to me. You lied to me. I'm like, dude, you lied to him. You said you didn't bring it in the house. I'm like, both of y'all. I'm like, it's like, who's lying? Who's the liar? I'm like, everybody.

Let's stop. Everybody.

Yeah.

Yep.

All right, let's see here. We are in a cycle where our loved one commits to a 60-day program, then relapses around the 30 or 45-day point, never quite getting past 60 days. And then she leaves treatment, comes back to detox, tries again. Then she tries to do it on her own and the cycle continues until she sees her life is unmanageable and we'll try again. This time we hear her saying, I'm just done with recovery. I'm tired. Can you Speak to this thought pattern from your experience.

Yeah, you know, I obviously don't know all your circumstances, but I think even though we tell parents to be supportive during relapses and all, we certainly shouldn't help the consequences. We shouldn't deter the consequences. Whatever consequences happens during their relapse should be 100% on them. Hopefully that's something that helps them not to want to repeat it. So I don't know, I'm not saying you guys are, you know, taking away the consequences, but I don't know the situation. But certainly habitual relapse, we see that. And sometimes it's hard to get them from doing that, right? They get in that cycle. I think all we can do as family members is support them however we can. It does come to a point is how much money do we want to spend on Continued rehabs. I've been through about 10. I got to a point where, with my first son, where I said this is the last one, and I think I meant it. Luckily, I didn't have to get tested. He's been sober 3 and a half years, but I hope I meant it. And we're at a point right now with my stepson where we're at our last rehab, and I hope I mean that as well. But I guess the point is, I think as family members, it doesn't mean we have to send them to rehab every time they relapse. We can— I think we ought to do what we can do, uh, and maybe that if that's only loving them and supporting them emotionally, then that's all we can do, right?

Joel, what I would add to that, because Scott's giving you some super good advice there, the only thing I would add to that is just as far as the actual thought process the person's having, that's just an addict thought. And if, if that person were sitting in front of me telling me that, I'd say, dude, that's just your addiction. Sitting there telling you not to even try because you're never gonna get it.

Yeah.

That's just some baloney that your illness is telling you. And then here's— and then what I would say next is I'd say, did you get 45 days? You did not get no 45 days by accident.

Yeah.

Right? Like, if, if your daughter goes 45 days, she was trying hard, okay? And so now some people go out and they use the first day out, then they done known that long before they got rehab. They've been planning it. They done called somebody to meet them. Like, yeah, but if you go 45 days, you were trying hard. And probably, and that's me, I don't know anything about the situation, but probably there's one thing that your loved one either really just doesn't want to do. or doesn't want to quit doing. And it's usually like a relationship or a job. It's usually just this like one thing they don't want to let go of and they keep trying to do recovery but hang on to this thing.

Yeah.

And it's that thing that keeps tripping them back up. Maybe it's like, I'm really trying to stay sober, but I just don't want to go to meetings. I'm really trying to stay sober, but I just want to keep my boyfriend. It's just probably like one thing. If they're getting 45 days, they're getting it and they got it and they are working it. And that's what I would Reinforced because the addiction is trying to tell them, you're never going to get this. I'm like, that's some bull. You've done, you don't have to eat 45 days, dude. That's great.

One other thing too, Amber, is I've been told by this by a few rehabs is that that seed has been planted, um, in multiple seeds. If, if they've done this multiple times, if they, if they've attempted rehab, they've had some recovery seeds planted in them. Uh, a counselor told me one time that my boys may have to go out and fertilize that seed with alcohol and more drugs before it actually starts to work. And they certainly did, uh, but, but it did work eventually. They got it. And, uh, so I would just say that they— that seed's planted in there, and, and we just hope and pray that, uh, she'll get, you know, 60 days, 90 days, a year, 2 years, and all, and just stay sober.

I mean, unfortunately it takes a few times, and I hate to say this, but it's just the truth. But first few times, whether it's rehab or talking to Amber, whatever, I'm gonna tell you how it's gonna work.

Yeah.

And you're gonna either not believe me at all, or you're gonna believe me up to a point, but you're gonna try to customize what I'm telling you because you don't want part of what I'm telling you not to be true. And you're gonna have to prove that a couple times before you really get it. And that's that seed. Like, I'm gonna tell you, you're not gonna believe me, that's cool. I'm not even gonna get upset, but don't be mad and say I didn't tell you. Like, that's not gonna work.

Like But it's kind of like when you told me 8 years ago that your, your program was— the, the IOP was not good for Zach. It was not going to work for Zach, but let's try it for a few months and just see. And it— I think we tried it for about 60 days and he never passed a drug test. He never passed a breathalyzer test. It did not work for him. But you told us from day one that that was not the right level of care.

It was a lot of fun though.

I didn't want to hear that when you told me that. I didn't want to hear it.

We kind of enjoyed him even though he was a mess. All right, let's see. Let's see if we got any more questions here. Y'all have had some good questions. Let's see. It sounds like it takes lots of micro decisions to decide to place alcohol in one's body. I like that, micro decisions. Very true. Especially when, um, when you're trying, you're actually trying to stay sober. Um, I always say like, if your, if your addiction can't get you to use right away, it's not telling you like, go get high or whatever. It's just telling you to go on that street.

Yeah.

You, you need something from that store over there. You know, it's like that. Get, let me just get you one step closer.

Yep.

I call it the long game. Let me get you one step closer. And the stronger your recovery is, the more sneakier the addiction gets like that. Yep. Yeah.

Well, the addictive brain certainly works on them. I remember Zach, you know, a few times when he would relapse, he is like, he had to go get something from his old friend's house, like a pair of shoes or a hat he left. It wasn't that he was going over there to get high, but just so happened that when he went over there to get the shoes, guess what? He actually started using again and relapsed. So The brain, these, like you say, these micro decisions, the addiction works on their brain something terrible.

Now sometimes a person knows that's exactly what they're going to do.

They're just telling—

well, exactly. And other times the person's telling themselves they're going over there to get their hat, right? And then I, you know, they might tell me like, did you know? And they're like, you know, I'm gonna get my hat. I'm like, and then I, and then I'll say, when you come back, I'm gonna give you that. I told you so. I'm telling you, I'm gonna give you that. You know, and then we just kind of like laugh about it or whatever. So All right. If anybody out there wants to talk to Scott for consultation or ask Scott questions or any of our family recovery coaches, I have put a link in the description. And also Scott has got a very good sort of list of dos and don'ts that he's created for parents. And that link's in the description if you would like that as well. Up next for you guys, got more videos on how to navigate those early recovery, those first few weeks and months, the hard part, how to get through that successfully. All right, bye everybody. Thanks for being here, Scott.

Bye guys. Thank you.