From Complete Denial To Completely Sober In 3 Months - Daniels Story

Of course, there might be lots of ways to get people out of denial and into recovery, but I'm going to share with you my way of doing it. In fact, I'm going to tell you the story of Daniel, who started coming to our office, I don't know, probably four months ago, I would say, and has had a total of about. I'm not sure if it's nine sessions or 11 sessions, something around that amount of sessions. And when I first started talking to Daniel, he literally told me, I absolutely do not have a problem with alcohol. My wife is crazy, and I'm sick of her being on my case about it. And I even asked him, I said, well, like, a lot of people, you know, that come talk to me. They have, like, a little problem with alcohol, but it's like, not that bad as their family's making it out. So I was like, on a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being like, I'm the worst alcoholic ever, and like, 1 being like, like, literally zero, no problem with alcohol, where do you at? And he's like, like a one or two. Like, I do not have problem with alcohol. So when I first started meeting with Daniel, he was like, I don't even know why I'm talking to you. I'm just doing this to help my relationship because I don't want to get a divorce. And so I want to talk to you about how we got Daniel from. From that point to about nine, 11 sessions later or so to saying things to me like, I am done with this. I haven't had a drink in a month. I'm sick of it. I don't even miss it. I'm so glad I'm not drinking. I. I don't ever. I hope I never go back to it because that was freaking miserable. So how do you get someone like Daniel from. I have zero problem. To, like, happy and sober and glad they're sober, because that's, you know, get someone sober is one thing. Get someone happy and glad they're sober. It's like a whole nother thing. I'm going to share with you my method for doing that. And Simon Sinek says, the first thing I do is tell people why. Well, the why to me seems kind of obvious as far as why you want to get someone out of denial because they're messing up their life and you care about them and you don't want to see them ruin their life. And because they're messing up your life and you don't want them to ruin your life. So that's why but the bigger why here is maybe like, well, why should I listen to you, Amber? Why are you the expert? Why? Why do you know so much about it? And the reason I think you should listen to me is because I'm like a nobody. Like, I have figured out how to do this with really no training, with no recovery experience, myself being completely different kind of person than the people that I usually see in my office. And still with all those factors stacked against me, I figured out a system on how to get people out of denial and move them through the stages of change. Now, why is that important? I want you to know that because you may be thinking to yourself, like, well, I didn't go to counselor school, or, you know, they won't listen to me because I'm not in recovery, or, you know, I'm not an expert in it. You know, how am I supposed to do this? Because there is nothing that I do that's that special. I probably shouldn't tell y' all that, right? I'm gonna lose all my business because I'm telling you I'm not that special. I don't do anything fabulous or miraculous. It's actually pretty simple. Now, it's taken me a long time to really sort of, like, figure out all the pieces of the steps. And to be honest, it's been a lot of trial and error and a lot of messing it up. So some of you guys know a little bit about my backstory, and some of you don't. But, yes, I'm a master addiction counselor. I'm a licensed mental health counselor, all that kind of stuff. But that's not really why you should listen to me. And the reason why that's not why you should listen to me is because nothing in any of that training has anything to do with what I'm about to tell you today. They didn't teach me anything in counselor training about how to get people out of denial. Absolutely zero. So, yes, I have those credentials. But that's not why you should listen to me, okay? Why you should listen to me is because I have figured it out the hard way. Let me tell you how this worked for me when I was a new baby counselor and didn't know nothing. Like, literally, I was like, I don't know. How long. How many years old do you have to be to have been to six years of college? Like, however old that is? Like, I was, like, 24 or something like that. And I got my first counseling job. One of the first things they had me do was they wanted me to build this substance abuse program for teenagers. And it was an intensive outpatient program. Iop, for those of you familiar with that, which basically means that like, they don't. IOP means a person's not like in a residential facility, but they come in intensively. So that means like three hours at a time. Usually like three, three to five times a week. So they asked me, the 24 year old who literally knows nothing but is trying to act like she does something, you know, don't want to be able to know. I don't know nothing, but really I don't. And they say, hey, you've worked with teenagers before because you were a school teacher. Like, why don't you develop this program and work with these teenagers? And another little thing about me is because I'm just like dumb enough and eager enough to be like, yeah, I'll do it. I'll do it without really even knowing what I'm getting myself into. I can't tell you how many times in life I have done that a lot, including making YouTube videos. That's a story for another day. So I found myself sitting in this room, which is literally. Let me tell you about the room. It's like a closet. It's like a long, skinny closet. In fact, it had this like fold out, I want to say conference table, but then you're going to picture like a really nice, like mahogany conference table. It's like the fold out tables. You have it like you. Your family picnic. Okay. Like down the center of this hallway of a room. It was like really narrow and a little bit long. And if it had chairs all the way around it, so it was like rectangle. I would sit at the end close to the door. Because they did teach me that in school. Sit. Sit closest to the door in case you need to get the heck out of there. I did learn that. But if everybody's in the chairs and somebody in the back wanted to get out, everybody had to get up and push their chairs in to let that person out. That's how like small and cramped this little closet we were in is, because that's once you get the picture here. So you got me 24 years old, sitting in a room full of about 10 to 14 addicted teenagers. Now, not only are they struggling with addiction, but they're teenagers, which means they have attitude. They don't want to be there. They're mad about being there. They think it's ridiculous. They definitely don't think. They have no problem. And they're looking at me like, who are you and why should we listen to you? And I'm thinking to myself, why should these people listen to me? I have no idea. So I'm just, like, in the deep end without a life jacket for sure. And so I start having to figure out how to work with these teenagers. And one thing I had learned the hard way from my teaching years was that you couldn't get anybody to do anything unless you build a relationship with them. So I had that piece of information that's literally the only thing I had working for me, is I knew I had to sort of, like, build a relationship with these teenagers. And so that's. That's what I did. And then eventually I got. I got smart. And the relationships with the teenagers that are already built, I made them into mentors. And I told them, y' all can keep coming for free as long as you're doing good and you're helping me. And then because they like me, tell the other kids, like, oh, she's cool. You like her. And then, like, they like me immediately. I had, like, street credibility. Just because he looked in your show. I got, like, proficient at doing this. But it wasn't easy in the beginning. And so when you're. When you're dealing with teenagers and you. You have to, like, get them to come to the program. So, number one, they're not locked up in the facility. How are you even going to get them to come back on Wednesday for three hours of sitting in a room talking about something they don't want to talk about with people they don't want to be talking to? Well, the only way to do that is to make that experience of them being in the room a fairly decent experience. At least decent enough that it's not worth throwing a fit to your parents to not have to go. That's where you need to start to begin with. And so that's what I did, is I just tried to make the experience not horrible. And once I had done that and I had gained a little trust, and then these kids would start talking to me about stuff. I mean, like, they weren't, like, telling me, like, the truth about their substance use, but, you know, they would tell me about their boyfriend drama and their girlfriend drama and stuff like that. We would talk about it, and then the group would, like, weigh in. And then, you know, you start building connections between each other and between myself and them. And then eventually they decide, like, actually like to come to iop. In fact, they just want to keep coming. So they know in order to keep coming, they got to get sober and Graduate so they can keep coming and being mentors, that's pretty huge. Teenagers three times a week, three hours at a time, like after school, like, this program was six to nine at night, Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays, decided the day is going to get sober because they want to keep coming back and they want to help other people do it. And that was the biggest reason. Then I developed this whole, like, mentor system. And eventually you got where there's not, like, enough room in this tiny little room we're in to manage all of these teenagers. What is the secret trick? Is the secret trick knowing 100 technical addiction counselor skills? No, nothing about that. The secret trick is building a relationship, gaining the trust, helping the person find their own reason for wanting to do it. And no, it doesn't have to be because they want to do it. It doesn't matter what the reason. The reason might be because they want to come back to Iop and be a mentor. That's a good reason to me. Help them find their own reason and then be there to support them and encourage them while they do it. Like, that's it. That is the whole thing. And why do I tell you that story? I tell you that story because anyone can do that. And that's what I want you to know. You don't need me to do that for you. In fact, if I can do that with your loved one, talking to them one hour a week, you could do that with your loved one and put it on, like, super fast track. If you'll use the same skills that I would use, you probably won't even need me. You won't need to pay the counselor to do that, because you can do it. Another thing to think about is one of the biggest things that I learned not only is, like, how to motivate someone to make changes, but is that I learned along the way is that when the family doesn't get it anyways, everything I'm doing, the family just sabotages and messes up. So even if you are paying for your loved one to go talk to a counselor and you're getting them good help, and you're like, I'm paying you to motivate them. You go do it. If you don't do these things, you're messing it up and slowing the process down and sometimes outright sabotaging it. I know you don't mean to, but you are. And that's kind of how I eventually came up with the Hope for Families model, where if I see you, your family's got to come to you and See the family counselor. Otherwise, you sabotage me. So let's take a look at how that works with Daniel on an outpatient level. Now, when I met Daniel, I already told you that Daniel didn't think he had a problem at all. But what I didn't tell you was Daniel's drinking every day. Now, he drink every. Every day because he would miss a day or two in there occasionally because he would drink so much. Sometimes he felt like total crap. And then he'd wake up in the morning and tell himself, like, that's it. I'm not drinking again. And then he would, like, not drink, like, a day and a half or two days or something like that. But when I was talking to Daniel, he never really went more than two days without drinking. But nonetheless, he was telling me, it is zero percent a problem. My problem is my crazy family. My kids have turned against me. You know, my wife have turned my kids against me, and she's trying to, like, tell my parents I'm an alcoholic. And now they're trying to tell me to go to treatment, and I'm just sick of all them. So for the first, probably three or four sessions that I talked with Daniel, that's what we talked about. And so I just listened to him. And I didn't try to tell him he had an alcohol problem. I didn't try to address it. All I did was listen to his frustrations and his concerns. And. And when I could, I tried to help him with the. The frustrations and concerns he had. Like, well, have you tried, like, saying this to your wife or this to your kids? Or maybe I can get the family counselor to talk to your wife about that or something like that. So I tried to help where I could, but mostly I just aligned with him. And doing that is very, very important. And that's the piece that you're probably missing as a family member, if this is work for you. Because what this does is not only does this help this person feel like, okay, like, she's helping me, and she's nice. It's not that. That's not why they listen or want to change. It's not because I'm nice. It's because they feel like eventually that I get them because I work really hard to make sure that I do get them and understand their perspective. No one cares what you think, and no one cares what your advice is for sure, until they think you really, really understand them and get them. Because even if they think you're nice and even if they think your advice is good advice, but they think, you don't really know me and you don't really understand my story. You got nothing. Nothing. Nothing you say matters. You have to get the person where they think, okay, I mean, this person's like, in my corner, yes, but they, like, really understand where I'm coming from. Like, they get me. And the good thing about this is you don't have to be just like the person to do this. Now, sometimes if you are like the person, like, if you have had a dream problem in the past or you have had a wife that was really mad at you, then you do have an end. That makes it easier because you can kind of relate and connect. Yeah, man, I've been there before. You know, my wife said that to me too. And you can kind of connect that way. Use what you got. If you got that, use that. I don't have that usually because I usually mostly see men in my practice now I mostly see men at the time I told you about in the beginning, I saw teenagers and I wasn't that much older than them. But I forgot to tell you this part, which is important, which is I was never a cool teenager. Never did the partying, kind of hung out at parties, some like, and went with friends, but never did it myself. Never was cool. So I didn't have that in common. I couldn't, like, talk the lingo. I couldn't really, like, act cool. So that's not why they listen to me. If you have those things to relate to someone, then pull them out. I would use whatever I had, do it, but you don't have to have those. You don't have to be just like a person for them to feel like you get them. What you have to do is you have to listen to them and you have to really try to understand their perspective. Even if you think their perspective is skewed or you don't agree with them completely because it's this. It's the fact that they think that you really understand the nitty gritty of their situation is why they're going to think that what your perspective that you're going to give them has any value. So that's all I did with Daniel for those first few sessions. You know, I'm not a guy. I don't have a wife. I don't have teenager kids like Daniel had that were, like, upset with him. Couldn't really relate to any of that. But I listened to him and I tried to help him. And eventually he did feel like I got him. And then the second phase of how Sort of Daniel moved. These stages of denial were after about three, four sessions. Somewhere in those middle sessions, Daniel would say, yeah, I really did drink too much this weekend. I felt like crap on Monday. And honestly, like, I told my wife I was gonna show up to the ball game, and I didn't show up. And I felt really super bad about it. Actually, you know what? Maybe. Maybe I didn't stop drinking. And so he would get like this, maybe I need to do something mentality. And I would say, okay, just tell me about that. And so I'll get him to tell me more about his reasons and how he felt and why he missed the ball game. And I would say, why do you, you know what happened, that you drank too much? And I would let him explain that. The reason I let him explain that is not because I need to know, because I. I already know. I could have told him my story honestly, but because it's reinforcing to him his own motivations. You always want to listen to what, motivate someone else and reinforce that. So when Daniel's telling me those things, I am saying, well, tell me more about that. Well, what happened? Oh, you were with those buddies and you told yourself you were only going to drink this, but then you drank too much, and then, like, you overslept and you missed the ball game. You know, you're just getting them to talk to you about it and just validating everything they're saying to you about it. And so then Daniel went through this phase where he would tell me, yeah, I said, like, I really do need to cut it back. Like, I just need to stop for a while, actually, I. I need to, like, I need to, like, clear my system. And. And then I would say, well, it might help you to do like a 30 day reset or something, you know, I mean, maybe you should, like, stop for like 30 days because then you could kind of stabilize. You could deal with, you know, some family stuff that you need to deal with, and then you might feel better and then reset your system a little bit. And then Daniel would say, yeah, yeah, that sounds good. I'm gonna do that. I'll say, all right, all right. And in the next session, I would talk to Daniel and do you guys think it would have happened? No, it did not happen. We did not get. We from week to week. There had never been one week to the next week where Daniel had not drank the first bunch of weeks. He had drank pretty much every day, missing like one and a half days in there occasionally because he felt crappy. Then he Would have this pattern in the middle where he would get, like, two days sober, but then he would start feeling better near, like, the end of the week. And then he'd be like, oscar, it. Like, I feel better. And then he would forget all of his motivations for why he didn't want to drink, and he would drink again. And so by the time I talked to him again, like a week or week and a half, two weeks later or something, he was like, back in the same old pattern. And when that happened, I didn't freak out. I didn't even say, but you said you were going to do third. I didn't do nothing. I just listened to him. I didn't even really bring up the old stuff. I didn't say, you promised, or you said, or, you know, why couldn't you do it? I just sort of let him tell me about what happened, and then he'd usually come back around and say, all right, all right. Like, I really didn't saw this drinking. Like, I really do feel kind of crappy, and I've had some sobriety in the past, and I did feel a lot better when I was sober, so you need to do it. And then he would do the thing again. Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna. I'm gonna stop drinking. I'll say, okay. Okay. And then I talked to him again the next week, same thing. We did this little pattern for probably another four or five weeks or so where it was like, he would have these reasons why he wanted to stop. Not, like, forever, but, like, at least clear a system. But we never would get there. Like, we never even got a week completely off the alcohol. But then eventually, something happened related to his drinking, and he. It was just like a light bulb went off. Something changed. Something was different. You know, we've been kind of, like, toying with the idea of slowing down drinking or taking a break. But then something changes, and he. I think what it was is he just got sick of it. He just got sick of the process. He got sick of the arguing. He got sick of the feeling crappy. And he's just like, I don't do this anymore. Like, I don't this. I don't like this. And that's when Daniel got sober then, not because of a horrible, terrible, giant thing that happened to him, but more like just because of the accumulation of, like, frustrating, crappy way his life was at the time. He's like, yeah, just. I just don't want to do this anymore. And he. And he said to me, like, okay, that's It. I'm not gonna drink again. And honestly, I thought this time, even though he was saying it to me and he seemed to mean it, I mean, seemed serious, honestly, I thought, we'll see. And I thought, well, when I talk to him next, know, we'll still be in this pattern a while longer. But then when I talked to him the next time, he said hi and drink it all since you talked to me, I said, like, what? And he admitt missed a couple weeks in between because he, like, been on vacation or something. I was like, you didn't even drink on vacation. He's like, I didn't even drink on vacation. I was like, what? I was so excited for him. And he's like, dude, I feel so much better. And then I talked to him again one more time after that, and Daniel was telling me about how happy he was he was sober. That is very different than when someone's like, yeah, you know, I've been on my good behavior, and I haven't drank for 20 days or whatever. He was telling me, like, I'm just happy I'm sober. Like, I'm looking at other people drinking, and I'm not thinking. He's not thinking to himself, like, man, this is stupid. Why can't I drink? And they can drink. And feeling sorry for himself, he's like, I'm looking at them people like, dude, I feel sorry for you because I feel great. My life is better. I'm thinking clearer. I have more energy. My wife's not yelling at me all the time. I'm getting along with my kids. I. And. And his whole mindset was shifted. Now. What did I do in that story that helped? Not much, to be honest. I know I shouldn't tell y' all that, right? I'm not gonna have any more clients because I didn't really do anything special. Mostly what I did was avoid saying some things. All I really did was try not to get in the way of his process. The most active energy that I put into the whole situation was just trying to listen to him and understand him. And then when he would come up with his plans for how he's going to, like, take some breaks from drinking, I would say, yeah, yeah, that's a good idea, and validate it and support it. That's it. No magic skills, no nothing. You have to go to counselor PhD school to learn. It's about allowing someone to feel safe enough to take the steps that they need to take, because deep down inside, most people do have some reasons they want to change. So there's kind of different types of denial. You know, there's like, I don't have a problem denial, which is what Daniel had. And then other people have, I have a problem. But they're in denial that either that they can get better or they're in denial that their life will be better if they stopped. So sometimes people realize they have a problem, but they think life will just totally suck without it, and they don't even care. And they rather just live over here on this side of the fence. So in the story I told you, Daniel just thought he didn't have a problem. But I do work sometimes with people who know they have a problem, but they, they just don't think it's worth the effort to get sober because they think life sucks over there and there. And there's a process you go through with that, but it's not that different, to be honest. Why do you want to learn how to do this? You want to learn how to do this because if you're the family member, if you jump in there and fight with them and argue with them and scream at them and yell at them and tell them that they're a loser and give them all these ultimatums, you're slowing it down. In fact, the Daniel story, I told you, it happened in about three months time, and it probably could have happened in two months time if his wife would have kept her cool because she would do good. I mean, I, I understood, I felt bad. Like, she would do really good. Like she was like working with Campbell and she was doing really good, and then he would do something and she's like, that's it. And then she just get so mad and it would just be a giant blow up. And that set us back every time. If that wouldn't have happened, we probably could have got it done in two months, to be honest with you. So you want to learn it because maybe your loved one won't come talk to a counselor. You want to learn it, because even if they are talking to a counselor, you certainly don't want to get in the way of it. The hardest part about it, it's not the skill that you use. The hardest part about it is the, like, withholding these urges that you have. And even me as a counselor, every single time I want to say those things. I mean, I'm not probably. I mean, obviously I'm not as upset about it as you are. You know, it's not ruining my life. So I'm not like ready to explode and kill somebody and strangle them because what they're doing or whatever. But I. I definitely have the same thoughts about, well, that ain't gonna work or that's dumb, or why are you doing that? Or why would you say that? Or why would you mess up your family? But if I, If I do that, I derail the progress. And so you want to learn to do it. If you're trying to help a loved one, you. You got to learn how to do this, because your loved one might not talk to a counselor. And even if they do, if you're doing this and the counselor's doing this, then you really going to get somewhere so much faster and you can do this and you don't have to be in recovery and you don't have to have special counselor skill, and you don't have to be exactly like this person. So that's what this YouTube channel is all about. It's about helping you understand all these things that I've learned the hard way because I know that you can do it. You don't have to be special. It's harder for you to do it than for me. But not because of the skill, but just because of the emotional part. You know, what they're doing affects your life. That's what makes it harder. So I don't want to minimize that and say, oh, it's easy. But I do want to tell you it's not complicated skill that you need. If you want the like, step by step process of it, then look at our invisible intervention. It lays out the craft method. It will lay out for you motivational interviewing, which is a counselor skill. But I'm telling you, even if you didn't even do those hardcore things and you just did what I just told you right now, as simple as this Daniel story, then it would work. Feels like it's not going to. There will be moments in the process where you think this isn't working. There are moments in my process with every single client when I think this isn't going to work. There were moments with Daniel where I thought, he's not going to figure this out. It's. It's like you think this ship is going to sink and then it works. And so that's why I keep doing it. Because even though in those moments I feel like it's not going to work, it pretty much works. So give it a try. You can definitely do it. I would. Those of you who are on live, thank you for joining me live. You guys are the best. If you are watching on the replay, thanks for joining on the replay you guys are awesome, too. Y' all aren't on Live because you're probably at work. You're probably doing stuff I appreciate you watching on the replay. But for those of you who here are here on Live, I want to say hello to you and take some questions and some comments. And I would love to hear from you directly if you have some experience with using any of these techniques, either the ones I've talked about today or ones in the past, or maybe you're in the invisible intervention, like, what did you try and what worked and what didn't work and did you run into roadblocks and how did you handle that? Because, you know, people might be listening to me and they might be like, yeah, but you're not living with the person, which is totally fair thing to think. So I want to hear from you guys who have done it, like in the battlefield done it, because I think that means even more than what. Than what I'm trying to tell you. So I'm going to put the link up. If anybody wants to hop on here live and talk about that, as always, I will tell you, this is public. I am on live right this minute on Facebook and YouTube. So please don't hop on here and say anything that you don't want out there publicly. So want to hear from you if you have walked through the process of trying to get someone out of denial. Oh, I want to throw in one more thing or two more things. One more thing I want to throw in is even if you're. Occasionally I deal with someone who's in recovery who has done this themselves, who has a loved one who is actively struggling, and even though this person is in recovery and they have literally done. Doesn't make that other person any more likely to listen. In fact, makes them less likely to listen to them. So even if you're in recovery, this is still the way. This is the way you get them to do it. Um, this is the way you get them to want to do it, I guess, is maybe how I should phrase it. So I'm gonna put the link up here in case anybody wants to hop on. And then the other thing I wanted to tell you while you guys are getting that is that there are, as always, links in the description for more resources. Whether you want a strategy session, whether you want, like, you're trying to do this with your loved one, but you need some hand holding or some coaching or what do I say when they say this or do this? There's strategy sessions, email consultations, invisible intervent, you can get help with better help, like full out counseling if you want more than just coaching. All kinds of stuff in there. So always look in the description. There's free Facebook group for families. All that's down there. I put the link up here. It starts with Streamyard. You guys see it? If anybody wants to click it, you can pop on here live with me. I would love to talk to you. And if you don't want to get on here live and share your business, I understand that too. It won't hurt my feelings. Let's say hello to some of you guys who are already here, though. All right. Hey, Jacob and Lydia and Kelly and. Oh, Fire master. I don't. I think that's the first time I've seen your profile name in a while. Hey, thanks for joining us. Glad you're here, Sarah. Jennifer's here. Let's see. Jennifer says for being a nobody, Amber, you know a heck of a lot of a bit. I know. I know a little bit about this one thing, Jennifer, but I don't really know anything about anything else. So that's a secret. Debbie's on here. Hey, Debbie. Hey, Michelle and Jennifer. Not Jennifer, but Jeannie. Jeannie says denial comes in different shapes, sizes, and lies. And you are right. So Jeannie makes a good point. When trying to get someone out of denial, you have to figure out first, what are they in denial about? And what a lot of family members do that kind of mess it up is they. They're like, you need to get help. You need to get help. You need to go treatment. You need to talk to Amber. You need to go, like to get an assessment or whatever. And you're saying that to a person who doesn't even think they have a problem. And every time you do it, you're just like destroying your credibility. Like, think of it if it was like your credit, like your credit history, like your financial credit. It's like you're filing bankruptcy every single time you do that. So don't do it. You got to figure out what are they in denial about, you know, are they in denial about needing treatment? Are they in denial about the fact that they have a problem? Back up, figure out what your goal is and focus on that first. Hey, Anthony, Yazzie's here. 20 days clean. Yazzie, tell us how you got 20 days clean. And first days is the hardest days. That's impressive. Glad you're here. Congrats. Yeah. It says start an IOP at the end of the month. Hey, Debbie. Hey, Jennifer and Debbie. PK let's take a couple of questions here. The Art of Living you says what about addiction being their coping method? Not face unprocessed trauma. Do they, do they are sober but get angry as heck? Oh, I think when you, I think what you're saying is like when they're sober they get angry as heck because they have unfocused, unprocessed trauma. I, I don't change anything I said so far in this case because what I've told you so far is about how do you get somebody to want to get sober? And that's, that's the method for how you get somebody to want to get sober. Sometimes if people have unfaced trauma, yeah, there's some additional work that needs to be done. But to be honest with you, the reason they get angry as heck when they're sober is because they're in withdrawal as much or more as it is the trauma. Now they're going to tell you whatever they're going to tell you, but a lot of it is because they're miserable because their brain chemicals are all out of whack. So but the methodology I would say is the same. I wouldn't change the process. I might get somebody into some trauma help quicker once they decided they were ready to do that. But still the same process for getting somebody to want to do that still same process if even if a person does have addiction and you're just trying to get a person to want to get trauma help, same process. Hope that makes y' all happy because it's not that hard. You can do it. Let's see here. CCB says what if they know they have a problem and no life will be better with alcohol but they still feel they can't control it. It's denial that it is possible to stop and make it stick. Yes, that's right. That's a perfect example of figuring out what the denial is. They're not denial about the problem. They're not in denial that they will feel better if they stop. They're in denial that they can do it. And this is sort of a like a self pity type of denial. It's a self pity kind of zone of like well I've tried before and I can't. And so it's a way that they're letting themselves off the, the hook. And I would probably, if, if this was somebody in my office then I would challenge that. I would confront that, not confront that like what you think, like have an argument. Therapeutic confrontation would be sort of like show them a discrepancy in what they're saying. The way I would do that would be I would say something like, have you ever had niece overtime? And they're usually like, well, yeah, once I had three weeks or three months or three years or three days. It doesn't matter what they say. And I said, well, how'd you do that? Okay, so you do know how to do it. And he did do it. What made you go back? And then they'll talk about what made him go back. I said, so reason you went back wasn't because you couldn't do it, but it was because you. Whatever they told me, convince yourself that it wouldn't be the same this time or whatever. So I try to kind of help them see that they're not being honest with themselves about that. But don't do that until you've done the other stuff I just told you. Don't do it until they think that you really get them, until they trust you, until they know you have their back and that kind of thing. And I know a lot of you family members are thinking, well, I tell them I love them all the time. They know I love them. And that's not. That's not really the thing that people want most of the time. They actually want to know that you like them more than they want to know that you love them. Because a lot of times, especially in these situations, yeah, you love them, but you don't like them. And they. And they know that, and that makes them angry. So it's. It's like they want to know that you like them and that you understand them more than they want to know that you love them. Because, in fact, I hate to say this, but sometimes your love is just annoying because you just won't leave them alone. That's how they see it. It's like, oh, my God, I know you love me. Like, leave me alone. Get off my back. Because they don't feel like you like them, and they don't feel like you get them. So it's not about saying, I love you, you know, I care about you, you know, I want the best for you. That's not helpful. Don't say that. Hey, Kelly. Kelly says craft definitely works in all situations. Listening, respect, compassion. Using these techniques will de escalate situations. That's right. And Kelly's works in all kind of situations, not just with addictions. It's just. It's harder with addictions, right, because they're more stubborn type of problems. But it actually works with whatever you're trying to help Someone with Lisa says, I have been using the invisible intervention. My husband's alcohol use, and my husband uses alcohol, and we have been getting along. I feel so unhappy. And it hasn't changed his drinking at all. All right, I'm glad you said that, Lisa, because I want you to think back to the story of Daniel. Did Daniel's drinking stop when we first started the process? No, it didn't stop until near the end of the process. In fact, it got worse. And that's okay. When it gets. It will get worse sometimes in the process. And actually that's a good thing because when you're trying to get someone out of denial, when it gets worse, you closer to getting them out of denial. So, you know, if. Honestly, if you think back to the Daniel story, if Daniel had managed to get those 30 days sober on like that after that fifth or sixth session, that actually slowed down our process. I'm kind of glad didn't. Because it was good for him to have said he was going to do that and not have been able to do that so that he eventually could come to the terms, like, I just got to stop this all together. Not like I need to take a break, not like I need to reset, but like, I just need to stop. Because him not doing that actually helped him learn that actually, that doesn't work. And even if he would have got the 30 days, what would have happened would have been. And what would happen for you, at least, if your husband, you'd be so happy and he'd be so happy, but he would have in the back of his head that he could go back out there and drink again, but he just wouldn't let it get out of control again and it would come back. So I know it seems like frustrating when, you know, you. You're building rapport and you're getting along, but you're not seeing the drinking change. The drinking change comes later. These are the pre steps. So it's super helpful when you know kind of where you're at in the process so that you're not so frustrated. Because if you're looking at it through this lens, you might be thinking, this isn't working. I'm failing. I could be thinking that with Daniel, but I'm not because I know how this process works, and I know he needs to say that and fail and say that and fail and say that and fail. In fact, I was really glad he didn't get those, and I was glad he did get more than two or three days sober, because then he would have started Thinking, see, I don't have a problem. I got, like, four days over. I'd be sober all week. I'm fine. I can drink. That would have been more problematic, to be honest. Let's see here. Oh, hey, Debbie. Thank you for the super sticker. Aren't you so sweet? So kind. Thank you. Oh, I love your curly hair. I can now put you on the screen. I can see your little profile picture. Nice hair, Facebook user. Everything you say is 100. Because of you, my husband's been sober for 85 days. Yay. I watched all your videos and did the invisible intervention. I had to change me first, and then he changed. So grateful for you. Keep doing what you're doing. I feel like I had a pep talk. Feel like I had a little halftime speech. Thank you, Facebook user. Was it smooth for you? I bet it wasn't. Tell us about how it wasn't smooth, because the people that are in the trenches, they need to know. It wasn't like I listened to two Amber videos. I enrolled in invisible intervention. I was nice to him, and he stopped drinking because I bet it didn't happen that way. Right? I bet there was a lot of, like, back and forth and some in the trenches. I think it's good for people to hear that, because then they're not frustrated. They don't get hopeless. They don't feel like it's not working. That's part of the process. Thank you for sharing your success, though. We need that. Jolene says, I spoke with Campbell last week and have been maintaining contact with my brother. But after recent lies he made in court, I chose to step away. Can you help me at all with someone in denial when you do not have contact? No, Jolene. Well, first, let me say this for those of you watching don't know who Campbell is. Campbell is one of our family counselors, and that's who Jolene is talking about. She. She sees parents a lot, but she sees spouses sometimes, too. There's not a lot you can do not having contact with someone. But that's not me telling you, Jolene, that you need to have contact with. With your brother, because my guess is you made that decision because you needed to make that decision for you. Okay, so it's hard for me to explain. And I say this, you know, try to say this pretty regularly around here, but just because I'm telling you how to do something doesn't mean I'm telling you you should do something. That's a question you need to ask yourself. Do I want to do it? Is it what I should do? Is this relationship worth saving? Is this going to cause too much damage to myself or other members of the family in the process of doing this? So even though I'm telling you how to do it, it doesn't mean that you should do it. And it is okay if you need to step back. So I want to tell you that, Darlene, there's not a lot that you can do to impact that situation other than the fact that you're stepping away, might just be another natural consequence for him that might get his attention and especially might get his attention if prior to you stepping away, you had built kind of a good relationship. Because then when you step away, he's gonna, like, miss the relationship. If you'd been fighting and all that stuff and then stepped away, be like, I don't want to talk to her anyway. So what you did, even though you've had to step away, might have planted a seed anyways. And even if you're not talking to him, the work you already put in is still probably working in there. See here? Jenny says this been the most effective method of helping our son get sober and keep him trying through the ups and downs, keeping the relationship strong and not arguing, supporting emotionally and letting him see that, yes, problem has worked well. Thank you for all of us. Thank you for the positive feedback. It's hard, though. Incident, Jenny. It's hard when you see those ups and downs. And I can be calm about it because I've seen ups and downs like a thousand million times and I know that it's part of the process. So it's harder when it's. There's so much at stake and it's your loved one. And it's actually hard when it's your kid because that. That's just. That's just the worst thing I think parents have to go through. Let's see. Javeria says I was playing the role of bad guy because I'm frustrated. But after watching your many videos, I decided I'll not confront nor react. And I hope I can stick this thing through. Yes, you can. And I don't know why when you said this, Javeri, but you. You prompted me to also think about. I think it's when you said, I won't confront. That's really important to think about because there were times when I was dealing with Daniel where I knew. I don't know. I don't know. I'd say I knew he was lying to me because he really lied to me, but I knew he was Leaving out big parts of the story. And I knew that because his loved one was talking to Campbell and I kind of knew there was more parts of the story, but I didn't confront them and I didn't need to. And had I done that, it might have. It might have damaged my relationship with him. Now, sometimes you do need to confront. I have a video about that, like when to confront and how to do it. So it's not that I'm saying you never do that, but most of the time it's not necessary. And so when it's not necessary, I say don't do it. Because it really kind of. It can backfire on you and slow the process down a little bit. If sometimes you need to. Like if your husband is drinking and driving while you kid in the car, you need to confront. So I'm not saying never do it. I'm just saying, like, ask yourself the question of what will this do? Is it necessary? Will it help anything? Sometimes you need to, but most time you don't. Kim says, how can I do a session to just process my situation? Kim, you can. If you want to do it with my team, you can schedule. There's a link in the description about scheduling consultations, and you can schedule just one consultation. You don't have to be in like any kind of ongoing anything. In fact, that's what most people do. They just schedule a consultation and then if that's all they need, then that's great. And if they need another one in four months, they get another one. Whatever they, you know, you're not like in any kind of process. If you want like full out, regular, like every week kind of counseling, then I think you should probably get like full out counseling. And a good place to do that virtually is through BetterHelp because they have counselors all over the world. That description should be in there too. If it's not, I can get it for you. Kim says, can I do it with you? Okay, let me answer this, Kim. Yes, you can talk to me directly, but I just want to tell you this because I'm the one on the videos. Most times people want to talk to me and I will talk to you, but I'm telling you, I know you don't. I know you don't believe me, but I'm telling you, my family counselors, Campbell and Kim, they're better at helping you because they understand your perspective as family member. If you're saying that, Kim, because you don't talk to me because you want to stop drinking, you thought of Me. Okay. But if you're saying that, which I think you are saying, can I talk to you about my situation? Because my loved one is addicted. I will. I will talk to you. I'll be happy to. But. But I'm telling you now that my family counselors, Kim and Kim Scott, they're better at helping you, the family member, because I was going to take up your loved one. I'm just. Because this is what I do. I'm like the defense attorney, and you need somebody on your side. So, yes, I will. But if you're. If you're asking about a child, I suggest talk to Campbell. And if you're. Even if it's an adult child, and if you're asking about a spouse or a partner, I suggest you talk to Kim, because that's what they do, and they'll have your back, and they're going to see your side. And so, yes, you can talk to any of us you want to. That's the answer. Debbie says. Am I right in assuming that if you live with the person, you should absolutely refrain from drinking at home around them? Ooh. Really good question. Now, this. I'm going to tell you my answer, but it's a little controversial. Some. Some people would tell you different. I don't think that if you normally drink. I don't think that you should change your drinking habits until they try to change their drinking habits and until they ask you. Because if you just think they need to stop drinking and they know that you think that, which they probably do know that. That you think that, and then you stop drinking, like, literally, you're not drinking. Is going to be. They're going to see that as a jab to them. They're going to see that as a statement that you're making. Even though you're trying to do that, to be supportive and caring and kind, if that's not what they're trying to do, it's gonna make them mad. In fact, I had a couple I was seeing for a while, and it was the wife who was drinking, and the husband, he. He drank quite a bit, too, but he was like, I'm gonna stop drinking because she needs to stop drinking. And it would just make her angry. And she would, like, go in the kitchen on his living room and make a drink for herself, like, really loud, like, clanging the glasses together. And it was basically like she felt like he was saying, like, f you, I'm not drinking. And so she was saying, f you back. I am anyway. And it was like this passive aggressive, cold war that was going on. So if they are trying to not drink and it would help them for you to not drink, then I would not drink around them. If they are trying to not drink, but they've actually already not been drink drinking for a really long time. Like they've been sober for a while and they're like, it really doesn't bother me or it really doesn't bother me if you, you know, have a glass of wine, because I never drank wine. Go by what the person is telling you that they want. I guess it's the best answer here because sometimes a lot of people I have that have been sober for a long time, their spouses do drink occasionally and it doesn't really bother them. It's kind of weird because sometimes it'll say, well, it bothers them if they drink my drink. Like my drink that I drink. If they drink that, I'll be wanting it. But they drink them white claws. I don't care. They drink their white claws all day long. This is like gross. So you kind of have to think, go by what the person wants because otherwise they see it as an attack. I'm glad you asked that question. Now, other people, I know they're gonna tell you different, but that's what I'm going to tell you. Let's see here. We will take one more question. I'm searching for a good one. Let's see here. Let's take this question. EAD1, this is. I've not seen your profile name before, so let's see if we can. What we can do here for you. My husband is back using meth and accusing me again of cheating, which is how he gets paranoid when using. How do I reply to him with empathy? Or should I just block his messages? Thank you. Great question. When. For those of you who don't know if you use meth, meth will cause you to not sleep because it's stimulant. And once you get to the not sleeping part, you can get delusional. And a really common delusion is for people to get paranoid. Now, it's not always paranoid that your partner is cheating on you. It can be paranoid that somebody's after you. But this feeling of paranoia is very, very common. And so what that means is what you are dealing with is delusion. And you can't reason with delusion. That's what delusion is. It's a falsely held belief despite evidence. And so our instinct is to want to prove, like, look at my phone. Or like, you saw me there. Ask my Mom, I was totally with her. You know, like, you want to, like, prove your case, but when you're dealing with delusion, the more you try to reason with them, the bigger their delusion gets. Kind of like it's a similar process when I say the more you tell someone they need to stop drinking, the more they want to drink. The more you try to explain to someone that what they think is false, the worse it gets. So anytime I'm dealing with someone in my office, that's delusional, which isn't a lot anymore. But I did work in the psych hospital for a long time, so I do have some experience with this. I don't want to argue with them about it. What I try to do is redirect it for you since the paranoia is directed at you. That can get dangerous when the paranoia is directed at you, because that's different than when someone's paranoid and they're telling you their neighbors doing something. You can kind of listen to that if you want to. Don't argue with it and try not to keep the conversation going too long. But you probably should protect yourself if you do have an interaction with them. You don't want to validate it and say, yes, it's true, but you don't want to spend a lot of time arguing or rationalizing with it. You want to get out of the conversations what you want to do, because there's not anything you're going to do that's going to convince them otherwise because it's a delusion and delusion reinforces itself. You can have evidence all day long. And the way the brain works, it's like a spider web. If you give them a piece of evidence, it'll grow like a new tentacle and they'll tell you why you. Even with that piece of evidence, it still happened because whatever. Whatever. So that's a good question. And that's a hard situation to be in. You do want to be empathetic about their situation in general if you're talking to them, but you want to avoid talking about the delusion if possible. All right, everybody, we are about to finish up. I will remind you there are lots of links in the description and I am going to link up here for you. If you're watching on the replay, I'm going to link up here. The last video, the one I'm going to suggest is the playlist on dealing with denial. Because there are other techniques in there about that. And if you are still watching, some of you may know in a community post recently I posted about, I was trying to work with this acting group about maybe like acting out some real, not real life situations because they're acting. But I got. You guys wrote me in some situations that happened and I was going to have actors act it out and then use that in videos to like teach lessons or comment on or that kind of thing. And I still want to do that, but I found out getting those addresses, that was going to be super expensive. So I'm not ready to do that yet. But I'm going to do that when I, Mr. Beast, I'm doing it. So what I want to say, and this is just a total like throw out there, but if, if you're out there and you maybe you're an acting teacher, you know some actors or, or you just think, oh, I could do that and that'll be fun and you think you might want to create some scenes for me, then shoot me an email@amberffrc.com I will put it here in the chat for you. You don't have to be professional, you don't have to have crazy equipment or anything. It doesn't have to be super fancy. But it would be really cool because I Learned in my YouTube class, like you have to show people, not tell them. So I need some help doing that. Eventually I'm gonna hire them actors and like fancy ones, but they're expensive. So if you want to help me do that, then I would love to hear from you. All right, everybody, I'll put the denial playlist up for you next and I'll see you guys next week at 1 o' clock Eastern. Bye.