How Families Sabotage Addiction Treatment

So you spend so much money, time, energy, it takes forever. You finally get your loved one to go to treatment. And unfortunately, most families totally sabotage the situation once they get to this point. And it's painful because sometimes it takes years to get to the point where your loved ones agreeing to go to treatment. And that's why we have family recovery expert Campbell Manning on board with us today. Campbell has two sons in recovery. She's also a licensed professional counselor and a licensed addiction counselor and just an overall parent recovery ninja. She's going to share her wisdom with us. And I love what Campbell's done for us is she's sort of broken down that, okay, we're to the treatment stage, but there's a lot of scenarios that can happen. Campbell's broken it down for us into the four most common ones, and she's going to walk us through how to handle each different kind of scenario. Campbell, if you don't mind, would you lay out, tell us what the four main scenarios look like.

The first one is my kid has agreed to go to treatment, but not till tomorrow or the next day because that's when they have a bed. So we're gonna have a gap here, just maybe a small gap, but nonetheless a gap in willingness and delivery between.

When they said they'd go but when they said it and they're actually going. You don't want any gap there, if at all possible.

No, I tried to get. Yeah, we try to go from yes to car to go.

Yes.

So there's that. Then there's when kids leave early, and by early, I mean before their treatment is completed by a lot, by 50% or so. And then there's kids who leave maybe before they have completed the ultimate experience, but maybe it's not their first go round. Maybe they've completed several others and relapsed and are now back. So some kids leave toward the end of a subsequent treatment, and that's different. And then there's what to do while they're actually in treatment, especially in the first month, sort of what to expect from what the words you're going to hear from your kids and how that's going to. They're going to try to sway you with what they say.

And that's such a critical point. And I'm glad you brought that up. And I do want to say, even though Campbell is talking a lot about parents and kids, everything Campbell and I are going to share with you today really can be pretty easily transposed to if this is an adult, this is a spouse. I Mean, the language might be slightly different, but the same scenarios happen, so.

Oh, yeah, I say the same things, too. I've got several wives right now whose husbands are in many of these phases. And I'm saying the same things.

Right? So let's start with the natural, logical place, I think, is to start with getting them there. So let's go to that first scenario. Campbell, tell us a little bit about that, how that happens, and how to navigate that situation the best you can.

And I think the first thing to recognize is that what I'm going to be talking about are not initial conversations that these family members are having with the counselor in this particular case that I'm thinking about. Someone else in our practice has been working with this family for months and months to give this kid the space to make the deals and not keep them, to make the promises and break them, and for me to work with them to recognize that that's what he's doing. And I use the metaphor a lot. Where in this kind of scenario is. It's like catching a sailfish or a giant fish, where you don't just feel you've got the fish on the hook and then just one nibble and then throw it on the boat. Right. First of all, you can't. It'll break the line. So a lot of times with addiction, what we have to do is we have to let the loved one, whether it's a spouse or a child, take the rut line away and swim, swim, swim, and get tired, and then bring it in a little bit, let it out, swim, swim, swim, swim, swim. Which is really hard to do as a parent because, you know, every time you let the line out and they swim, swim, swim, something horrible could happen. But it's almost always required, right?

It's the way you're actually going to make this work without losing, without the whole thing falling apart, without the fish getting away.

That's how the fish determines. My life is unmanageable. I'm out here just flopping around, and I'm not going anywhere.

Right?

We all know to get our kids into recovery is their life has to be deemed unmanageable by them. And the only way they can do it is to get out there and just get exhausted and think, I can't do this anymore. Which is exactly the verbiage I heard from one of my kids, which is, now, I don't want to come home. I need help. I can't do this anymore. Can I come home to go get help?

Right. I'm just done, right?

I can't do it.

And so the scenario that you're really describing is kind of like, we're past all that. Like, letting the real out. Like, we're past all, like, the invisible intervention, the crap. You've done all that. So you set all the right groundwork, but now we're sort of. Sometimes you get. You get to the wall, you get to the line in the sand where you're just like, okay, like, we're here. Yeah.

So this is where parents are. I can't live like this anymore. This isn't working in my home. This isn't working for the family in general. So either go to treatment or find somewhere else to live or some version of that.

Right?

And so, like, in the case we had this week is the kid was like, okay, fine, whatever. I'll go. And here's the first mistake that was made. The mother said, well, honey, it doesn't sound like you want to go. And then the minute she started talking, I was like, you know what, dude? Let you and I go back into our office. You know, I don't let Kim work with your parents. I was like, a whatever. A wtf? A shrug of the shoulders. That's a hard yes. And you just run with it. And Amber always says, it's not that they want to go, it's that they're willing to go. And so a shrug, a whatever. You win. This sucks. That's all. That's all willingness. Stop talking. Go.

Oh, my gosh. Yes. Don't. Don't say, are you doing it for yourself? Don't say, are you sure you're ready if they say yes.

Well, maybe after we get a haircut in a new suitcase. Like, we know we're not going to get a haircut before we go treatment. They have barbers there, right?

So.

So don't fall into. That would be the first thing. Do not fall back into the trap of listening to any deals or promises. We're past that. We've already had the deals. We've already had the promises. But it happened this week in this session. And the mom was like, well, maybe I was like. I looked at my client, who's the kid, and I was like, dude, you and I both know that. I mean, I had to, like, almost become his own counselor because the parents were trying to undo it. So don't make deals. Do not cave. You have come to this point that has been very difficult to come to. Super uncomfortable as a parent to get to this point. So don't get there. If you're not Ready. But when you're ready, don't backtrack.

And remember what Campbell said. This isn't your first line of defense. Like, we're not. This is not our primary way of doing this. This is like last. Last. This is the last line of defense. Yeah. Yeah.

I think the other thing that you have to recognize at this point is that they may change their mind between now and when we go tonight or tomorrow. They may say, screw this, I'm not going to. You have to hold your mind, but then you have to tolerate that. They may go live with a friend or, you know, family might come bail them out, or a family member will come and bail them out. And then, of course, you have to wait for it to get worse, because that's. The kid's not going to tap back out until that person, friend or family member gets sick and tired of being sick and tired and. Or the problem gets so much larger that your child gets sick and tired of being sick and tired.

Man, Campbell, you know what that's like? That's like you got the fish to the boat, it's coming up, it's getting in there, and the line breaks. Oh, yes.

That's exactly what it feels like. Or a whale comes and takes the fish from you.

Yeah, Even worse. Yes. I was like, my heart's hurting hearing it. Yes, yes.

It happens, though. And unfortunately, but I've. I've never seen it not unhappen, which is we get right back to where we were before the whale came and took the. The family member. You, as the parents, you guys have to remember, no one loves your child as much as you do. So your friend, his friends, his friends, parents, even his grandparents or an aunt or uncle, they don't love him as much as you do. So they're going to get to this point faster than you did. And you just do not fall back into it by trying to educate that person, trying to warn that person, trying to lecture that person. War. Or when they say, come get your dang gum, kid. You say, yeah, I'm not coming to get my dang.

Ask for it.

You ask for it.

It's yours, right? Yeah. So you don't. You don't try to control that situation. You just sit and wait. You're waiting. And waiting is different than doing nothing. It may feel like nothing, but you're not. You're strategizing. You're talking with your family recovery counselor coach. You got the plan, and you are waiting. So you're not going to miss the.

Next moment, and you're Staying on the same page. If you're married with the other side, and I can't imagine how difficult that is to have it, have it snapped away. But it's imperative that you hold yes.

Even if you're not married, if you can be on the same page, your problem is going to solve faster.

Yep.

Yeah, absolutely. So, and then Campbell always says, like, behind the scenes, you need to have pick the treatment center, because when they say yes, you need to literally put them in the car right then and take them. And if you, the, the worst thing you do is start calling treatment centers and scrambling and trying to figure out your insurance, I guarantee you you're going to lose that.

You'll lose that 100%. No, you know, you know what your finances are, you know if you're utilizing your insurance, what the coverage is, what the difference is. And you have at most two options. And I don't even advocate giving them an option. I say, here's where we're going. Know what you're doing. And, and I tell parents this all the time. Call them, get all your questions out of the way, ascertain whether they have a bed, and then stay in touch with them like every seven to 10 days. This happens all day long. You're not going to irritate them. They've got people that answer the phones. 500 people call, and one kid goes, so don't worry about that, but know where your bed options are.

Yeah. So when Kevin says have one option, you're saying, give them one option. You may want to have two or three, because there may not be a bed at the moment when your window is open. And you need to make moves when your window's open. And I love that you said, ask all the questions. And I would add to that. Try to think of the questions your kid would ask, which are probably different than yours, like, can I have my cell phone? Can I have nicotine, Can I call my girlfriend? Whatever. Find out the answers to those, because those are the roadblocks. You know your kid's going to throw up and they're going to ask you, be ready. And you know, you know your loved one, you know what their roadblocks are going to be. You know what they're going to ask. Find out the answer so you're ready.

But also bear in mind that unless you're, as long as your kid is 17 or older, they're going to have to call and do a 5 to 10 minute intake. Call themselves. But I tell parents this can be happening in the car, on the way.

Yes.

And I don't care if you get on the phone and they're like, yeah, but you can't come till tomorrow morning. You get in the car and you get on the way and you spend a night in whatever town that is. In. In a hotel.

Yes. Like, don't go back home. And then, like, I love that. What Kim was saying is if the bed's not open until tomorrow, or maybe you gotta wait two days, go to the place, get a hotel, stay the night, cross the street from the place.

Yeah.

Don't stay at home. Because if you stay at home, be there. Going to have a runner.

You're going to have a runner. I remember with our first son, when we were moving him, you even said, he's going to want to go home and talk to the dog. The answer to that is the dog's at the vet. Like, they're not talking to the dog.

I need my toothbrush.

I bought a new one.

In my favorite hoodie. I've got to mail it to you. Yeah, I'll pay the big postage. You'll get it or whatever. Right?

Don't go home.

If at all possible, don't go home. So what do you do? So that's getting them there. Campbell, what do you do when you get them there and then they want to leave? Because that's the next thing you're facing.

So there's two. Two ways I'm going to look at this. The first one is I'm going to do it with, they are going to leave. Not they're talking to you about wanting to leave. I'm going to save that one for the end. Okay, so this next scenario is they. They leave. They either get kicked out, or someone comes to get them, or they just walk out and jump on a bus because they've been working for a month and they have money. Okay, so if this is the case, then this is sort of the line just got snapped on you again. You do not rescue them financially. You do not in any way be part of this except to talk on the phone and validate, empathize. Be kind and nice and compassionate. Yeah.

You don't have to be mean. You don't have to be mad at them, but you don't fix it.

It doesn't happen. So there's no point in being mad. Or you can be mad. You can be mad in your private thoughts, but there's no point in yelling. There's no point in lecturing. You just remind them, you know, we said we would support you in recovery. You've left early. So tag your it like you've made an adult decision and we hope it goes well. So you don't lecture, you don't lecture, you don't rescue. You probably have to understand that it's going to go south again because this kid has left early. They're not ready to leave. There's not enough brain recovery. Addiction thinking has kicked back in and found reasons to get out of there and get back out and get its party going again. So you've got to tolerate that's going to go south again. So then you, while you're being kind and compassionate, also go back and realize, do we want to do this again? Do we have the money? Can he go back to where he just left? Sort of start to get your side of that circle of when this goes south and this kid taps back out again, what do we have to offer?

That's the behind the scenes, right?

That's behind the scenes.

Okay, Right.

And you have to recognize, like, this is, again, educational. The stages of change are going to change. The stages of recovery are going to go up and down like they do. And in the downs, you run the risks that they're going to want to get out of there. The disease is going to take back over. The first little bit they go, they may be in the pink cloud and they may be like, this is awesome. Thank God that other problem is over. I feel a sense of relief. I feel like much less shame. So that pink cloud, which is that initial big high, often does look like it's going to sustain, but it doesn't. And you have to be prepared for that.

You're going to get pushback at some point while they're in treatment. Most of the time you get it right up front that first and maybe even second week. If you don't get it, then it might come in the middle, right?

Yep. So this scenario I'm talking about, this kid had been in treatment for probably 90, maybe even 100 days and but was getting ready to transition to this, to the bigger concentric circle outside of treatment, and his disease kicked back in. It was like, if I sign a lease for six to 12 months, I'm stuck in the city. I don't want to do this. You know, he started saying, well, I don't really like the people I'm supposed to live with. It was the typical argument. So he left while the parents were on a trip and they just wanted to, like. When I talked to him earlier this week, they're like, well, we just want to tell him he's screwing up. And I'm like, it's over. He's there. He's already. He's already drinking. You already know that. I said, stop checking his checking account because it's just going to drive you insane. Just recognize, can he go back to where he just left. And we want this to become unmanageable. So if he's at a bar and he's going through his money, that's not a terrible problem.

Right? Because what you're telling me is almost like, okay, they feel like the kid is relapsed, but. But the parents are relapsing too, in this situation. Right. They're trying to go back to their behaviors. Your job is not to relapse with them.

So that really does require not feeding catastrophic thinking.

Yes.

Okay. So, yes, it's probably in this case, my. My money is this is going to go south. And I told them that. I said, I do believe this is going to go south, but we're going to handle it differently. We're going to handle it calmly, we're going to handle it maturely, and we're going to handle it with patience.

Yes. Right. And so even though you may feel like that you're not going to communicate that to the person, because when you start telling someone they're going to fail, then you've literally set it up. So definitely.

And then when they do fail, they're like, well, screw you. You never believed me anyway.

Right? That's a good point. Right? Yeah. Okay. Yep, Gotcha.

All right, so then the third scenario is one that I was telling you earlier, Amber. Like when I'm having the conversation with this family this week that I've known for years, because we've gone to treatment, we've left. We relapsed, we've gone to treatment, we've left. So this third scenario is this kid has been in his third or fourth treatment, like long term, like more than three months. And so he's pretty treatment savvy. He does know what he's doing. He has. He has a job that he really likes. He. He saved enough money to pay half of the car that he just got.

Wow. That's huge.

He has a. He has a sponsor. He has a ton of people in recovery. He knows he's not leaving the city. He's just left this long term sober living house he was in. And he literally just said, I am sick to death of living like this. I just want to go try it. So the parents called and they're like, oh, what are we going to do this is terrible. And I'm like, you know what? Look at it. Like, it's not terrible. Let's look at it as if he may be quite successful. He's got a lot of serotonin because of the friends. He has the car, he has the job, he has. He has a lot of a good chemical formula that we, I think could work. If we act as if it can work and we point out what he's good at and what's going well in his life and how much we love him. We're going to continue to feed those positive things. His birthday is coming up and they're like, well, I guess we should just cancel this trip. And I'm like, no, you should go have his birthday. Like, we love you dearly. We'll support you knowing whether you verbalize it or not, which I highly recommend they didn't. Is they're not going to fix this financially if he blows it and can't pay his bills and loses. They're not going to fix it. But we still can take him a birthday gift and take him out for lunch and go see. I said go see his job. He's so proud of it. Ask for a tour.

Because this scenario might actually work out okay. The other scenario is not likely to work out okay. But this, this person had been in treatment for, for a long time. And there was probably some legitimacy of like, okay, like, I'm over this, like.

And it's gone from being a 17 year old to a 20 year old. So he's got a lot of maturity, he's grown a lot. So, you know, I said I would give it 50, 50 at the least. I might maybe even give it 70, 30.

Okay, wow. Did those parents, were they like, where's Campbell?

Exactly. I've known these people a while. And he goes, where is Campbell and what have you done with her? And I was like, I know, I am actually surprising myself, but I want you to look at this in a different light so that you stay healthy and you stay intact. So there's no point in everybody rushing to the bottom of the drain if it's possible that things will float around on the top for a while, if not forever. And in that case, I also did remind them that even if he does hang out with some people at work and maybe he drinks a beer or hits a joint, but then he comes to the conclusion that, oh yeah, now I am starting to jones for the Xanax again. If he comes to that conclusion, that would be a lapse with meaning. That we actually applaud. Like, we kind of. We kind of like them when they happen. So I'm like, if that happens again, that's positive. That this kid would take all his knowledge and all his what he's gained and be able to apply it to himself.

Right.

Pretty darn quickly. Which is what elapse is defined as would be big steps toward way good, independent, long term thinking.

Yeah. And because in that moment, recovery is still working, because they're still recognizing what's happening. They're still. It's not like they're completely out of control or completely back in denial like they were to begin with. Right. And they could get it back on track quickly if they make the right decisions. Okay. All right. What's our. What's our fourth scenario?

Fourth scenario is when your kid is in treatment and maybe has been there one day, maybe even up to four or five weeks. This is where parents make a big mistake, is that they stop talking to their counselor, because that's over. Everything's golden now.

I can breathe now.

Yeah. Let's open a bottle of wine and celebrate because our kid is in treatment. But what's going to happen is you're going to hear I always say, like, up to 40 sentences that are going to pull on your heartstrings. Like Amber says, pull on the dad's purse and the mom's heartstrings, and they're going to try to emotionally blackmail you out of treatment. My roommate is harassing me, stealing my stuff. There are people here who are using heroin and meth, and that's making me really want to go do those drugs when I'm really here for Xanax. I can't think. It's so loud. Everyone's immature. This place is stupid. It costs way too much money. I've learned what I need to learn. I'm good. I just want to come home. I can't finish my schooling here. You're going to hear all kinds of things. You may even hear I'm being like, my roommate is molesting me. Like, I've heard that right? They're not.

I've learned my lesson. I promise I'll come home and get a sponsor. I'm gonna go to meetings. I swear. I'm done.

Be prepared. These sentences are empty. They're just, I always say, well, if that's happening, then you need to talk to a staff member or you need to talk to some. Your counselor there. Don't take it on as a parent and try to resolve. Get in the middle. Talk them out of it or think, well, maybe it's true and I'm going to bring them home. If it's true, someone at the place is going to call you and say, hey, we have a problem.

And if your kid tells you something bad is happening at the place and you're really worried, you can secretly behind the scenes, not do some investigation and find out yourself, but don't play into the conversation because chances are it's not true. Not true. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

Right. Okay.

So that. Be prepared for that. And that's a lot because that's really difficult as a parent to hear some of those things and not think, maybe we messed up. Maybe we should take them out. And there are guys, there are some treatment centers that aren't great. So that's what Amber's point is. Pretty valid. Like, call and just check. And if you get a vibe that's gross, don't go get them and bring them home. Find another place.

Right.

Okay. But that's why I say do your homework up front so that you, you, you really know that you're sending them to a good place.

Right. And sometimes parents say, well, you know, what if they meet somebody who's on more harder drugs than they are? And I always say, you know what? That could happen. It's possible that that could happen. You know, it's possible that this might not work. But if they don't go to treatment, you. You can guarantee they're going to meet somebody doing hard drugs, and you can guarantee that it's not going to work. Right. So to be honest, I tell parents.

Like, it doesn't really matter. Your child's problem, whether it was with lifesavers, marijuana or alcohol, led to the same set of problems that the meth or heroin addicts problems were. The same things, the same six criteria, met the same falling apart of life. So. So it doesn't really matter. Right?

Right. Okay. So there's the. Prepared for, like, all the things that they're going to sort of pull on your heartstrings to get you to come get them.

Yep.

Okay.

It is important that you remain on the same page so that everybody understands why we're doing what we're doing. Keep. Keep boundaries of, you know, are we, he can't come home or how long does he need to stay before he can come home? Keep staying educated as to what's next. The biggest problem people make, one of the biggest mistakes they make is they send someone to treatment for 30 days, 45 days, but they have no idea what's really entailed in long term recovery or what aftercare should or could look like. And the mistake that people make is they bring people home after a short amount of time with nothing in place. And change is where addiction dances with the devil. Because you take them away from their counselor, their sponsor, the meetings they knew, their friends, their sober activities, and you put them back into place, even if it's a different location for aftercare. And then none of that's in place.

Right.

That's where we lose it.

And we say on this channel, you need to be five steps ahead. And so, okay, you got them to treatment. Now you need to, you need to be thinking about the next three steps before you're there. That's what, that's what we're all about. Strategy, strategic, making decisions and being ahead of the game is not reactive to the situation. That's how you, that's how you win this war.

Yeah. Because initially, as we go into it, your kid is playing chess and we're playing checkers.

You're chasing them.

We're not chasing them. We want to be playing chess and they're playing teachers. So there's that. Don't keep spinning around them completely. I mean, for months, years, this is consumed all of our energy, time, emotional, go back towards yourself. If you have other children, don't drop them, don't ignore them. Spend time talking to them, enjoy them while you're also thinking and planning. But also it's okay to enjoy your life. It's absolutely fine to focus on yourself and your job or your hobbies or your family and take sort of a break from that. It's. It's not okay. It's actually vital.

Get yourself back on track. Like they're getting their self back on track. Yeah, right.

And then the other thing is, keep talking to other parents. Whether it's a group, you go to an al Anon, a family support group. I love treatment centers that have a family component. Whether they have a support system online or in person, they have a family counselor. And it is, this is important. So you first of all hear other stories that you might go, oh, yeah, my kids starting to do that too. I'll learn from that. It's really important that you keep your educational support system in place. And for us, we did it for a long, long, long, long time. And it was invaluable.

Right, Right. All right, so Rebella, Tom, if you're watching this and you want to talk to Campbell about your situation, either they're in treatment or you're trying to figure out how to get them out of denial and get them there. Campbell is the gal for you. That's what she does all day, every day. I'm going to put the link in the description for you so you know how to schedule an appointment with Campbell if you're interested in that. Like I said before, she. This is what she does. She stays five steps ahead. And you need a guide in this world, because this is like a whole new planet that you're on now. You need to know what to deal with and what's coming next and be ready for. And that's. That's what Campbell does. And I know Campbell. You have people tell you all the time, like, yep, that's exactly what Campbell said was going to happen. Like, literally the next day. Calling back up. Yeah. They did that thing the day that you said they was going to do.

Today someone asked me if my real name was Alexa.

Right, Right. Because it's predictable. Right. And you need to be ready for the. The next move. Okay. Thank you so much for joining us, Campbell. My pleasure. Awesome. You've given us a lot of wisdom, and hopefully you've helped a lot of people not make mistakes that they're going to regret.

I hope so.

Thanks, everybody.

Bye, guys.