How I Overcame Depression, Anxiety, And Addiction (Andrew's True Story Of Addiction)

One of the hardest things to figure out is whether or not you're dealing with a mental health problem or a substance abuse problem. And for whatever reason, people always prefer for it to be a mental health problem. And so what they do is they chase those avenues for years and years. They go see every psychiatrist, they get all kinds of mental health help, and they ignore the substance abuse problem. That doesn't work, and it wastes a lot of time and money. Now, I'm not saying that there's not a mental health problem. I'm just saying that if there is a mental health problem and a substance abuse problem, you will never get at that mental health problem as long as the person is continuing to use drugs and alcohol problematically. Most people tend to think that the mental health problem is the underlying root cause for the substance abuse problem, and in a lot of cases, they're really right. But the mistake The mistaken thinking comes in when people think, if I get the PTSD treated or the anxiety treated, that the substance abuse problem will go away because that's the thing, the underlying issue that's causing that problem. Well, by the time you get a full-fledged substance abuse problem, even if that started because of a mental health issue, it's its own problem. And you have to deal with the addiction before you deal with the depression, anxiety, trauma, PTSD, and all that other kind of stuff because the substances are always going to block your way. After having said all that, I'd like to introduce you to Andrew, and I want you to listen carefully to his story because you're gonna hear these themes over and over and over again, and it's really gonna illustrate to you how important it is to treat these things in the proper order. The other day when you came and you were telling me something about your story, I think the part that stuck out to me the most was the fact that you got so far into alcoholism and addiction, yet no one in your life—

Yeah.

Was like on your case or telling you you had a problem. Like, to me, it just blew my mind because you're a young person. I mean, you have parents and stuff like that that That just got that far and no one was like nagging at you or harping at you or trying to control you or nothing. To me, that was crazy.

Um, I think I was very difficult to be around and it was very hard for other people to tell me what to do. And you were never really gonna know how I was gonna react.

Okay.

And it's like a form of manipulation, right? Where I can use my emotions to like put everybody in a very—

Oh man. Yeah.

Precarious and uncomfortable situation.

Really?

So I think I was like that for a long time.

So what would— so what were you like? What would you do to throw people off?

Uh, just dismiss it, um, hide under the guise of like, um, it's a mental health issue that I'm figuring out. I think my favorite trick ever was, uh, okay, well, I'll go see a psychiatrist and a therapist. You know, do that 2 or 3 times, take medication.

So at what point in your story did you first think, I think I have a problem with drugs or alcohol?

I mean, you know there's a problem when you wake up and the first thing you gotta do is like finish off whatever liquor you have left or see if there's any drugs left. But that's easy to get over if you just, oh well, you know, have a hangover from last night. Yeah, we were all partying, so I gotta get through this because it's It's like self-medication.

It's like this special circumstance.

Yeah.

That's what I always say about denial. The way that it works is the person will only look at one specific situation at a time.

Yeah.

And any situation you look at, there's always like a reason or a thing that happened.

Yeah.

And they, they just look at it situation by situation. They don't sort of like back up and look at the big picture.

No.

Is that the kind of thing that you were doing?

Oh yeah. Super Bowl, baptism, graduation, whatever. I don't know. Wednesday.

There's tons of reasons. Okay. Tell us a little bit about your family when you were younger. Like, where'd you grow up and that sort of thing?

Yeah, I was born in Miami. I'm the oldest. I have 2 sisters and a brother, and I had like all the love I could ever want and more. I come from like a really big family. Lots of cousins, lots of aunts and uncles, and it was like super supportive, like my something and Mom, my parents always like, like, oh, we'll give you guitar lessons or send you to guitar lessons.

So they were like always open to that or encouraged that kind of thing?

Yeah, so creativity was definitely encouraged. That was really nice.

You're making me kind of like your parents. I feel like they're pretty awesome.

Yeah, they're great.

Okay, so definitely your addiction problems definitely weren't because you came from a bad family.

No, not at all.

Definitely not.

No.

So why in the world were they because? Why do you have those issues?

Well, I was like always really sensitive.

Okay.

Um, just like very emotional, very sensitive, and it's hard to know what to do with it, especially if you're moving around a lot, if you don't have a lot of friends to confide in, if your parents are just busy with other things. It's kind of hard to know who to turn to.

It sounds like you almost like you had a lot of deep feelings, but you didn't really know exactly how to process them.

Oh yeah, they're just getting bottled up and bottled up.

Okay.

Especially when you're that young. It's like a lot of time just spent in your room listening to music.

What kind of music did you listen to?

Oh, if you ask my sisters, they would tell you just The Smiths nonstop.

Yeah.

It's just, just very sad, like whining music.

Like depressing stuff.

Yeah.

Sounds appropriate for 7th grade.

Yeah.

Okay, and so when, when did you, when did you have your first experiences with drugs and alcohol?

Oh, I mean, there's like a home video of me, probably like 7 or 8, And I'm by the pool, we're on vacation, and I'm like slamming a beer, but I'm like slamming it. And, uh, I think the audio is like, hey Andrew, do you like beer? And then I look at him and I think I do something, uh, kind of funny, and then I just like jump in the pool.

I'm just thinking about you at 7 slamming a beer because beer tastes so nasty.

No, not for me.

That's what I'm wondering, like at 7, like literally you're like—

I think My parents aren't really big drinkers, although my mom would have a glass of wine or two with dinner, I think every night.

Mm-hmm.

But I just associated it with Friday nights, Saturday nights. Each side of the family would get together, and it was just wine or Johnnie Walker Black. And I was like, oh, this is what people do. This is what adults do when They're not working and when everything else is—

Like to have fun or socialize, this is what you do. Yeah.

I don't know how you have nostalgia for a substance at 7 years old, but like for me it was there. I don't know.

I mean, just the fact that you said you slammed it, which means you— I mean, just for a 7-year-old, because it's gross.

I don't think in the video—

Do people grow to learn that?

Yeah, I don't think I wince or anything.

I'm just like— That's what I want. I mean, I have to see this video. Okay. All right, so, but that wasn't really like problematic drinking, that was just like exposure to alcohol.

Yeah.

A little bit as a kid, like within your family setting.

Yeah.

And then when did you have experiences with drugs and alcohol, like as a teenager?

Yeah, I mean, it starts off with like a couple friends get together and we stand outside a bodega with $12 and ask 100 people to go buy us a 6-pack.

Classic.

But I always— and then that really only happened like a few times before I ended up becoming like a daily drinker at 16. But when we did do that, I was always the one to drink like 4, and everybody would like drink like half or split it. So it's just like, just from the beginning, it's just like going over the top.

So you're one of those people like literally from the beginning it was different?

Yeah, I was like, okay, this is— you don't buy it to consume it, right?

Do you remember what you thought about it at the time?

And I do remember super vividly first time I drank like really hard alcohol was somehow we got a bottle of vodka and probably like 14, 13 maybe. And it just ends up me being like, me and my friend taking shots back to back, seeing like who will stop. And then he stopped at a certain point.

It's like a game of chicken? Was that what it was?

Yeah, exactly.

Okay, all right. Um, and you won, I'm guessing?

And then I won, and it was like, yeah, this is it. And I think it was like 15, 17 shots of vodka.

And now you had like status at last.

Yeah, I don't think I'd ever drink vodka again after that.

Okay.

But my punishment was to sit in the bathroom the whole next day just throwing up.

Okay, which if you weren't an addict or alcoholic, that probably would have worked.

Oh, sure.

Yeah, like a normal person would have said, I don't like this.

Yeah.

But it didn't work on you.

No.

Okay. When did the heavy drinking start?

Daily drinking started probably at 15, 16. I worked at the golf course.

Drink with the adults, or you would just ask them to buy it for you? How did that work?

Oh, you know, there's the person that works the car. There's the clubhouse on the— that you can visit on the 8th hole or the 12th hole or the 16th and 17th hole. It just depends on how bad you want it. And I don't know, it's, oh, this beer is for Mr. So-and-so.

Oh, I see.

So it's, you know, there's a lot of It's like a game.

Okay.

So really, I would give somebody a ride home, this older guy, and he would buy me like 2 24-ounce cans of something. Nothing good.

Something nasty, I would assume.

No like IPA craft beer that we have these days. It was like Mad Dog 2020 or something.

Okay.

Drink one in the shower. I think I figured out if I like drank the first one really quickly, I'd start feeling Good.

Okay.

And then the next one I can kind of like nurse it.

Okay.

And then depending on how I was feeling, I could maybe grab one from the fridge downstairs or maybe like drink a glass of wine with dinner. Just stuff like that.

Do you remember at that time, were you preoccupied with it? Like, did you think about it a lot?

No, I don't like really remember that being like a constant thing, but at the same time, I was thinking about this the other day, I did like punch a window once so I can like— I guess the idea was to like get a couple scrapes on my hand, but I punched a window once at work so that I could leave.

To get alcohol?

Yeah, so that I can go drink my 2 beers.

Okay.

And that's like, if that's not insanity.

But even though that was happening, it didn't click in your head as abnormal or nothing registered really?

No, just yeah.

Okay. I was just thinking that because when you said, I figured out if I drank the first one really quickly, like you had strategy.

Oh yeah.

Like I can tell there's like a thought process and then I could sneak down like you were planning.

And like that kind of thing doesn't happen overnight.

Right.

Yeah, it's like a lot of trial and error and Yeah.

Okay, which is slightly different than I would say most teenage drinking is.

Yeah.

Okay. Did your parents know you were drinking?

At one point they found like a huge contractor bag with all these empties.

Wow.

And I think the question was, are you drinking while driving?

Okay.

No, I drink before I drive and then I drink when I get home. I didn't say that, but Yeah, just kind of blow it off. It's fine. No big deal. Whatever. This is a lot. These are like, I drink once, one a day, or which wasn't true. And so, yeah.

And so they were okay with it? They weren't really okay with it, but I don't remember they sort of believed your answer, I guess.

Yeah, I don't remember there being any repercussions.

Okay.

Um, I just threw them out. After that.

Okay.

And I think like the reason that people like me or family loves you or loved me is it became harder and harder to see as you get more and more hollow.

Mm-hmm.

Because your main focus is just getting messed up.

It's a pretty lonely isolated place to be.

Yeah.

So then you go off to college.

Yeah, and I, and I got to go to college, and I got to pick what I wanted to do and where I wanted to go.

So where did you want to go and what did you want to do?

I wanted to go to art school, and my family said, all right, cool, but you're gonna pay for it.

Okay.

And I was like, great, I'm gonna do that. Art school, New York City, sounds great.

It does sound kind of great. Yeah. It's like a TV show.

Yeah, and then you— and then I get there and it's just like, oh, we're all kids, really. And I learned pretty quickly that I didn't need an ID ever, or most of the time. I'd go buy some 40s.

Did you look older, or it's just that easy?

I don't know.

You don't even look that old now.

Yeah.

So it's hard for me to think you did. Okay. Even with your beard, you still look pretty young.

Yeah.

Okay.

I don't know. They just never asked. I never told them.

Okay. It's just so interesting. It just seems your story, when you tell it, seems like it's just so natural and easy. It almost like—

Well, yeah.

Like, well, like it's just so regular.

I spent my life skating by on charisma and not on merit. And I think I was like just outgoing enough, just like maybe talented and smart enough where I could get what I wanted, which would cause me like many— like a lot of heartbreak later and a lot of trouble.

Plus you had the whole like, I'm an artist thing going for you.

Yeah, yeah.

So I think you get like some more room because of that, right? Like that's what you do. Okay.

Jumped off a fire escape and really hurt my feet. Like fracture them and get the prescription. Then you start drinking with the prescription. And I remember one—

Can I pause you here?

Yeah.

Okay, how did you explain that to your parents? I jumped off a fire escape and broke my feet. I don't know. Like, how'd that conversation go?

I don't know. It's like very bizarre because I never went home. I just stayed at school.

I'm assuming they knew that you got hurt, you had to go to the hospital, the doctor.

They don't know what you tell them. Yeah, so I was like on crutches, like couldn't walk, and have like what seems like an endless prescription, but I did find the end of it, believe me.

Okay.

And one night I like really flipped out shortly after like all this had happened, like the Like a week or two later, like I wasn't healed yet, and I was like crutching down the street, like punching every car window.

Yeah.

As like one of my friends like followed me, not too close because I was like really just out of my mind. Um, and then I went to the class the next day or the day after that, and somebody was like, you're like, what is going on with you? Because you're, you're not seriously gonna get hurt, like you're serious, you've seriously hurt yourself.

Okay, this is the first time in the whole story—

Yeah.

Where someone's actually said something to you, like, even remotely like, whoa dude, you need to settle down or something.

That was like the first time that I really actually felt called out.

Yeah.

And I was like, how dare you?

Is that what you were thinking? Like, you don't know me?

Yeah.

Kind of thought?

Yeah.

Okay.

This is somebody that I didn't really know that well either. I was like, wow.

To me, it's amazing that this is the first time someone says anything. Like, really.

Yeah.

Okay. And so—

It kind of— yeah, it actually kind of was because I had been caught like doing Xanax in high school.

Mm-hmm.

But nobody— I don't know. Nobody was ever like— I don't know.

And the way you describe your use to me, I mean, it's not like the high schooler experimentation or having fun in college. I mean, it was like full-out—

Totally out of control.

Problematic using. We're not talking about like, I smoked some weed here and there. We're talking about you were— you could have definitely been diagnosed with like full alcohol dependence in high school.

Yeah. Okay.

Oh yeah.

Okay. Yeah.

But no one really— if your parents were here and I interviewed them about it, what would they say?

We did not know what to do with that kid.

Okay, so do you think they knew something was up, they just didn't know what?

Yeah.

Okay.

Because I think towards the end, yeah, by like senior year in college, I'd end up in a psych ward every 8 months. Once a year or something.

That's a pretty good time.

Yeah. Okay. And then I'd get medicated and try to take that regularly. Drinking would catch up.

And so your family and your friends just thought you were depressed?

Yeah.

Yeah. Is that what you thought too?

Oh yeah, for sure.

Okay.

And there's no anxiety like waking up in the morning after like a 7, 12 days of heavy, heavy drinking.

Oh, your mind is going crazy.

Nobody's gonna tell me that I'm not anxious because I'm about to like flip out, you know?

Right, coming out of your skin. Sure, okay.

And then also it's like, I'm gonna make you— you don't understand my pain, so I'm gonna educate you. And the way I do that is by just like being Whirlwind of terror. Um, yeah.

What does that look like? What does that mean? Like, whirlwind of terror? Like, help me picture it.

I don't— there's no—

I'm just having a hard time.

Just like very unreliable, just lying all the time. I would have said or done anything to make sure I had one more beer. Yeah.

So you moved to Florida after college?

Yes, time for the old geographic change.

Right.

That would be a very difficult time for me because I was, even though I have a bunch of family in Miami, I was like very much alone. I was living in a house that my parents had owned and Just living with my sister, fixing it up with my grandfather during the day, and then at night I had like the garage and the living room was where I painted, and the garage was where I would work on sculpture. So I would just go back and forth and have like full rein to play music as loud as you want— I wanted, and drink as much as I wanted, and really not do a whole lot of talking to Other people or—

Just sort of left to your art and your drinking?

Yeah.

Okay, left alone.

Mostly, mostly drinking, and then it'd become less and less art.

Okay.

Just sit in a chair and drink. Yeah.

So how did that progress in Florida?

I was like set up to succeed many times. I would work a little bit On a project, and then I get a paycheck, and then I would coast. And I would get a prescription for Xanax, and it's like, all right, see you in a month. And it would be gone in a week.

Okay.

I would blink and it would be empty, and I wouldn't even know what happened.

Didn't remember it properly?

Yeah.

Okay.

And, uh, just at times I would like Look at my sister and I couldn't piece together what was wrong, but I could just surmise like what a terrible person I had been the past 24, 48, whatever hours.

What would be going on with your sister? Like when you said you could look at her, like what do you— what did you see?

Just a lot of tension and just— I think you can— addicts can read other people very well.

Sure.

Which is funny because it's not something I can really do too well when I'm sober today.

Well, it's almost like how you have to assess the situation, like what happened last night. You're almost like feeling it out.

Can I ask him for $10 right now, or should I wait?

Yeah. But your sister never said anything?

I don't think so.

Okay.

Yeah, and there's a lot— there was like a lot of talk of how I'm gonna change and what I'm gonna do to change it, but It's like an Etch A Sketch, and I'm writing it all day while I'm drinking, and then at night it's just like— and you wake up, you're like, oh, I don't think it was that bad.

So you definitely knew the alcohol was a problem at this point then?

Yeah, but I couldn't really convince that it was that. I couldn't really convince myself that it was that.

It felt more like depression and anxiety?

Yeah, I mean, I had a good hunch that I'd have to stop that in order to take care of everything else.

But you probably felt like you had to drink to get through the depression and anxiety.

Yeah.

It's like a trap.

Yeah. And I go and I get this job as I'm on my way to the airport, and I get a good job as a metal fabricator up there and find a cheap place, and I just kind of like am barely hanging on by a thread. Go to Miami. Or yeah, I would go back to Miami for a second, get mad at everybody, everybody would get mad at me, and then I— yeah, then I went to Minneapolis.

So you go to Miami, make a disaster.

Yeah.

Cause a bunch of ruckus and then leave?

Yeah.

Okay, I like it. All right. It's like, oh, it's like a hurricane or something. Just like destruction following you. Okay.

It's like what a Just like really punishing existence. Like, you really gotta be careful. Like, now today you can tell me anything and I'll try to support you and do my best.

That's what I'm saying. I'm having a hard time picturing the things that you're telling me. Yeah. So you get this really cool job as a metal fabricator. It's a pretty sweet deal.

Yeah, it's just really fun. And I find like a big warehouse to live in and That's super artsy. Yeah, I lived with, you know, a bunch of artists, and eventually it just— I lose my job, I move out. Pretty quickly, my first job there was making caramel corn, and I would get up— I think I would get up at 3, show up at 4, and it was pretty much Baileys and coffee. Until 7, and then Bloody Marys until like 9. And then at that point, it's like, get out at 9, there's a restaurant open somewhere, the liquor store's already open, time to keep drinking.

9 in the morning? Okay, okay, wow, that's some serious heavy drinking.

Oh no, like start drinking at 4 in the morning.

That's what I'm saying. Yeah, so like, it's like now the liquor stores are open at 9, so now I can go get alcohol.

Yeah.

Wow.

It's just chaos. It's very, very scary. And like living in constant fear that I'm not gonna be able to get access to what I need to cope with. And then again, like the insanity is liquor stores being closed. Well, that's not the insanity. The liquor stores were closed on Sundays in Minnesota, and so you gotta either buy What you're gonna drink on Sunday the night before, which would never last me because I would just drink twice as hard, twice as fast.

Right, because you're thinking, yeah, oh, I'll buy this, it'll be enough for tomorrow.

Yeah, so it was like, okay, I can go drink Listerine, I can go to a bar if I can afford it, I can go to a bar and leave and never pay the tab, or I can pawn something.

So this is really desperate thinking now.

Oh, like I would walk 1,000 miles if I thought that a friend was at a certain bar and they would buy me a drink.

Okay, at this point in the story, Andrew, is it occurring to you that you might have an alcohol problem?

No, this is still fun. No, well, yeah, I mean, yeah, because there's, you know, again, friends that come and visit me and I'm Totally checked out and they want to go do cool stuff, but I can't leave the house because I'm too drunk and I can only go if I'm gonna go get more booze.

Okay. Yeah.

I'm like a pretty worthless person at this point. Um, you know, trying to make it work with a partner. They're pretty sick of— sick of me. And then one summer I I have this, like, little— this big truck, and I just throw out a lot of stuff, sell a lot of stuff. I pack it all up, and I go do a residency an hour away, like an art residency. So I was just, like, homeless pretty much. I mean, I got a truck, but I fought so hard to keep on living this kind of life.

Mm-hmm.

Very poor quality of life. That I wouldn't want for anybody. I meet somebody, it starts getting serious. I'm like, I don't have anywhere to live at the time. I don't know how this wasn't really a red flag for them.

Because you're an artist.

Yeah, it's like, this is— I could have an apartment at any time.

Right?

And then eventually I get pancreatitis and I'm Very skinny, very sick. I look terrible. I'm— I don't have any money. I think I have a place to live.

How old were you at this point in the story?

Uh, this is 2014. 26.

Okay, so you're 26.

Yeah.

Pancreatitis.

Yeah, and I show up at the hospital. I'm like, something's wrong. Um, well, I was working and we had been working for All day, probably like 16th hour. It's the 11th hour. We're supposed to get in a car to drive 7 hours to Chicago to install a bunch of things. And I'm like, I'm going to sleep in the loft because something's, something's really wrong with me. And I'm kind of like, well, I haven't drank a lot today. Like, is that it?

So you think it— so your first thought is, I haven't drank enough?

Yeah, yeah.

Okay.

I don't know. I'm like, I'm having a fever. There's like, it's just like I feel like I'm full of clogged plumbing. Awful. And then I go downstairs and everybody's working. I'm like, take me to the hospital right now. Now, now, now, now.

Like it's not good. Okay.

And I get to the hospital and they're like, yeah, you have pancreatitis. Like How much do you drink? I was like, well, you know, I drink a little bit. They're like, okay, well, you need to stop.

Like, you can't.

Like, you really need to stop. I spent 3 days, uh, every half an hour I get the button with the Dilaudid. Great, perfect, I'm in heaven.

So you're in the hospital for 3 full days with this? Yeah. Okay.

I don't let my partner at the time come visit me. I don't let anybody come visit me.

How come?

Uh, well, 'cause I got music on my phone and I got Dilaudid.

Because you don't need them, okay. Don't come on court.

And I can't actually eat anything. So it's like I got a lot of time to just sit there and fade away. And I also don't know if like I'm gonna make it. I'm like kind of like, this is, this is how I go. Like this is, this is probably it. Yeah. Very, very bleak, very, very sad. I guess I— yeah.

So you were just almost like resigning yourself, almost?

Well, I had been having suicidal ideations for 2 or 3 years prior to that.

Okay, so you're like, okay, we're here, this is it.

Yeah.

I'm gonna die of pancreatitis at 26.

Mm-hmm. I get a little bit better because I'm not drinking. I go back out to life. My birthday's around the corner, and there's like a big party because we used to get a pig and go do that.

Okay.

Halloween. And so I can't drink, but I have a lot of Like morphine, essentially.

Is that what was keeping you like out of withdrawal?

Yeah, that too. Yeah. Okay, time to go back to work. Uh, I wake up and I'm like, I can't do this. Can't do it. I won't do it. Uh, I don't have any money. Hey, like driving on empty to get to work. I go inside. I grabbed my boss's phone because I don't have a phone because it fell in the fire. Get in my truck, lock my truck. Oh, I had taken like all the medication that I could find like in the house at the time.

Okay.

It was like a lot of Dilaudid, a lot of other pain medication. Antipsychotics. Yeah, so I was like, that's it, it's done, it's whatever.

So you took all these medicines to try and overdose yourself?

Yeah.

Okay.

Um, kind of waiting, I like called my dad. I'm like, hey, I did this, like, I think this is goodbye. Um, he's like, he's frantically calling my partner trying to figure out where I am. And I get a razor blade and I cut my wrist. And then, yeah, there's like blood everywhere. I'm throwing up.

Mm-hmm.

And then a police officer like bashes in the window and drags me out. And I remember being in the ambulance and they're like, hey, like, you're not gonna die, you're gonna be fine. I'm like, damn it.

You really meant it.

Well, like, how embarrassing to like call everybody I know and be like, see you later, I love you a lot, and then I gotta like show up tomorrow at work or whatever. It's like my ego. But then they're like cutting off all my clothes. I'm like, ah, my favorite pants. My favorite. It's like reality is not— I'm like seriously delusional.

The dots are not connecting at all.

No.

Okay.

Like, there's a major change about to happen, hopefully, 'cause nobody's gonna allow me to continue, or like even legally let me continue to live like this 'cause I just tried to commit suicide.

Right.

And I'm worried because my $5 coat that I got from the thrift store is getting cut up. So I go to a psych ward for 2 weeks, start feeling a little bit better, start taking medication regularly. And, you know, my dad's in town. I'm like, so what's gonna happen? He's like, well, I don't know. And then we go to North Carolina, wilderness therapy.

Mm-hmm.

I'd never heard of this. I'd always liked camping. I like being outside. Every once in a while I'd go car camping.

So it's like, alright, we're going camping.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

And so you went to Four Circles?

And then I went to Four Circles.

In Asheville?

In Asheville, yeah.

What was that like?

Uh, it's the coolest place on earth. You know, they give you boots and a book bag and like clothes and a toothbrush or whatever, and they're like, alright, like Take care of this stuff because this is yours. You know, let's start here.

Back to basics.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, because somebody described it to me the other day. They're like, there's this box that is society in your life, and you couldn't do that, so like now we're gonna go here. You can figure that out, and then after, like, you can maybe go to a sober house, gets a little bigger or whatever, I think. And then it'll hopefully ideally get right back to where you wanted it.

Yeah, let's, let's see if you can deal with the 5 things in this backpack.

Yeah.

And then we'll give you something else if you can handle that.

Yeah.

Okay.

So I loved it. It was difficult, uh, and then I met a bunch of people, a bunch of staff who like had like this unconditional love for me and like would listen to me and be like, oh yeah, I've done that, whatever, it's no big deal. And I was like floored. I was like Wow.

Is it like I found my people? Almost like—

Yeah, 'cause I think half of it is like not— it's like I always want to hang out at the bar 'cause I like the kind of people that are there, 'cause— but all it is is just talk. But it's like now there's all the people that were at the bar or that you used to do drugs with. It's like they all got clean and they're the same people.

They're still cool.

But like now they're doing like crazy stuff. Yeah. So it's like, you're just as weird, and nobody's really weirder than— stranger than a wilderness field guide. That's my belief.

I could go with that.

So it was just so much fun. I got to see so much stuff.

What is life like for you now that you're sober?

Um, I mean, just within the past year, I was able to come back and work where I first got sober.

Mm-hmm.

Become part of their family, see some of the same people that gave me that unconditional love when I needed it the most.

Mm-hmm.

And hopefully reciprocate that support and care and like empowerment and validate others. And It was a blast and unfortunately a really hard lesson in— I mean, everything's finite, so they ended up closing down. And then I found myself like just really confused and hurt because this is something that—

It's kind of like, this is my new life now.

Yeah, and then like this is a place that gave me everything once and then twice because I got to work there. And I was like a total mess. I like cried throughout the whole like closing ceremony.

Really grieving.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it didn't hit me until the very last day. And then, and then the day after like the whole closing party, just opportunities started coming up and I had choices and I could afford to get a car and go on vacation or sign a lease, which I ended up doing, and living with somebody who I get to choose to live with.

Mm-hmm.

And it's just like, just things that I would never have been able— and I almost said like give myself, but like I didn't give it to myself, like it was just given to me. Mm-hmm.

But you have so much more control and decision-making ability to sort of direct your life.

Yeah. And it just, it just blows my mind that I could, like, buy dinner, like buy a friend dinner.

Mm-hmm.

And like have a cell phone and like, I don't know.

The small things.

Yeah.

That you're grateful for.

Yeah.

Do you still struggle with depression and anxiety?

I think just like anything else, things come and go. Suffering is inevitable, but it's like the misery that I was able to sustain for so long, I don't have to do that anymore. So I can use tools or have a phone of 100 people that I can call.

You have some really close relationships.

Yeah.

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Thank you.