How To Break Through Someone's Denial | Addiction Psychology Secrets

How do you break through someone who is in serious denial about their addiction? How do you break through that denial? It can seem so obvious to everyone else around the person. It can just seem like. When you're like, how. How do you not see this? But denial is really, really powerful. There are some serious psychological mechanisms that at play when you're dealing with someone in denial. And the truth of it is, we've all been in denial about something in our life, right? We've all not wanted or maybe even not even been capable of seeing something. Denial is like a defense mechanism. And it's there, kind of like protects us from something our. Our ego isn't ready to see. And so if you think about that, you know that what the whole purpose is, the. The biggest piece of it is this. This word. Break through someone's. No, that's the whole thing. You can't break through someone's denial. And the harder you push and you try to break through their denial, the more defense mechanism that they're going to put up. There is a way to get through to someone, but you're gonna have to do it very different than what you probably think. And in this video, you're super lucky because I'm gonna give you all my secret tips and. And tricks. For those of you who are new here, I'm Amber Hollingsworth, and this channel is all about helping you understand the science and psychology of addiction so you can get your life and your family back on track and get back out there and live the life that you want to live. Now, I am a substance abuse counselor. I have been for nearly 20 years now, and a big part of my career was even working with teenagers. But. And they're even more difficult than adults as far as, like, getting through to them. But when you deal with people who have substance abuse problems, you get you eventually, not in the beginning, but you eventually, you get some skills and you figure out, how do I get through to someone? And some of that's just kind of like trial and error. Now, I will tell you that there is a specialized counseling technique that is literally the whole purpose is how do you get through to someone in denial? And how do you get someone to start making steps towards change? And that counseling technique is called motivational interviewing. And if you want to see a real life motivational interviewing session, like a real one that I've done, I am put. I've put the link in the description. I'm also going to paste it here in the comments for you, see if I can do that. So that you can watch a real life session to see like the, the real, like clinical, like if you went to counseling school the way they would teach you to do it, right? And it's, it's really not that difficult. It's pretty simple to understand. So you don't have to have like a lot of training or something to do it. But you, but it's not, it's simple. The technique is simple, but it's not easy. Because the reason it's not easy is because you have to like hold back a lot of your own instincts. That's what makes it not easy. Not like the, the technicality of, of the technique. But I've put that there for you to watch that. But the techniques I'm going to tell you today are more just like my learning along the way that are like trial and error that anybody can do at any time. You don't have to have any special technique or anything like that. Like I said, you can go watch that. And if you want to learn exactly how to do it, like super, like super professional style, you can do that. But these today I'm gonna give you like 10 things and anybody can do them. Now I'm gonna start with the first one because I want you to start with the first one. Now I'm gonna give you 10 of them and you can kind of like pick and choose the ones that may work on in any given kind of situation. Except number one. Number one always has to be done, and it always has to be done first. And number one is you have to use a lot of reflective listening. And some of you may have heard me talk about reflective listening. I know a lot of you out there are actually in the field, and so you probably know what it is. But for those of you who aren't, reflective listening is just a way of letting the other person know that you hear them. So when they say something to you, you reflect it back. You can say, so what you're saying is. Or you can say, I say this in session. So what I'm thinking is happening, is this what you're telling me? Like, tell me if I'm missing a piece here. And then reflect back to them what they just told you. It really, really, really makes someone feel heard. Too often when we're dealing with someone who's in denial about something, every chance we get, we're trying to push through a piece of information to them. We're trying to, we're trying to give them a piece of information or shove something in their brain or shake their little shoulders or something. And it doesn't work because denial is a defense mechanism. So the more threatened a person feels, the more defense mechanism they're going to use. What you have to do is you have to figure out how to get the person to let their defense down. You basically have to get the person to figure out how to bring the shield down themselves. And in order to do that, they have to feel safe. And the way that you might feel someone feel safe and hurt is you just understand them. And that means it's going to take a pretty good while of really listening to them. And if you really want to be like a super expert, you won't just listen to the words that they're saying, but you'll listen to the emotion that's behind it. So a way of doing that would be if you reflect back. So what you're saying is your, your mom said this to you in the kitchen, and that must have felt, fill in the blank, great, awesome, terrible, horrible, embarrassing, whatever. And then when you pick up on that kind of context of the situation and, and you can not only really listen to them, but reflect back to them that you understand how that must have felt. Now they really feel understood. And you can't tell somebody a piece of information, you can't get something in to somebody until they feel like you understand them. Because even if they did hear anything you have to say, you don't have any credibility because the thought is, well, you don't know me. You don't understand my situation. So before you can do anything else, you have to do this. And a best way to do it is use reflective listening. And I'll try to remember at the end to link up my reflective listening video where I teach you how to do that. It's not that hard. And sometimes we, we naturally do that a little bit, but we tend to forget to do that when we have a high emotion about something and when we don't feel heard because, you know, especially if this is like a conversation that you've had with this person probably a hundred times, right? They say the same things, you say the same things. No one's listening. You got to get out of that dynamic, okay? You got to get out of that. And another thing that, that sometimes people try to do is they try to like, send their loved ones articles written about like, the bad effects of whatever drug or alcohol or whatever, or they'll, you know, they'll try to do something like that to bust through the denial that that's literally like the worst thing. Don't do that. Don't do it, because it makes it. It makes it 100 times worse. And I promise you, the person is thinking nothing about eye roll. Like, oh, my God, like, cul. This person is ridiculous. Right? That's all they're thinking. So first and foremost, help the person feel understood. Literally, if you do nothing else, I'm about to tell you, if you just did that, they probably figured out you didn't even have to do anything else. In fact, there is, like, a whole counseling technique that. A whole, like, framework some counselors use. Like, literally all they do is listen. They never give a piece of advice. They never give a piece of feedback. And that's the whole thing, is just to listen to someone until they figure out their own stuff. Now, I'm not that girl because probably because I'm too opinionated. And Halsey. And also, I think dealing with people with substance abuse, like, people in crisis in general, they. They want to be told the truth eventually, and they want to be given a piece of advice when they're ready for the piece of advice. So I'm not one of those people that never do that, but I don't start with that. You know, you've got to really understand someone before you give them a piece of advice. All right, Once you do that, once you do it again, and then once you do it again, then you can do some of these other. They're just little ways of sort of getting through to someone. The next one I want you to think about is, how can I make it less scary? Because a big reason why someone is in denial is they don't want to know something, because knowing it means something scary is going to happen. Like, if I admit I'm an alcoholic, I'm going to have to give up drinking. That's freaking scary. And I don't like the thought of that, and that makes me freak out. Right? So what you want to do is you want to somehow figure out if you can make it less scary. And one way to make it less scary is to help someone understand that just because you have some level of a problem doesn't necessarily mean you have to change your whole life. I mean, it probably does, but you don't have to sort of say, you're an alcoholic and you're gonna have to change everything and you're gonna have to go to me for the rest of your life, and you're gonna have to give up all your friends like, hello, that's super scary. So the whole thing here is to get that shield down, right? And so make it less scary in any way you can. And that one can, can be kind of combined with this next one I'm about to give you, which is sort of give it to them in a way that their ego can handle. So it's like, can I make it? Like, I could admit this and it doesn't mean I'm a terrible, horrible human being. Like, this week I was, I was talking to this, this client of mine. He's a newer client, and he is starting to peel the layers back of denial, but. But doesn't quite want to admit it or whatever. And so I'm talking to him about it and I'm like, I'm like, dude, these days everybody's addicted to something. And then I'm like, you see these Diet Pepsi, like I have drink like six of these a day or whatever, and if I, if I don't drink them, I'm going withdrawal. And what I was trying to do is I was trying to sort of make it where the. It's not like I'm a horrible person. If I say if I stop drinking, I'm going to have withdrawal. Because that's the case. Because I knew if he stopped drinking, he's gonna have withdrawal. He knew if he stopped drinking, he was gonna have withdrawal. And I needed him to be able to sort of own that without being freaked out and without it meaning something super horrible. I'm like, dude, like, habits have solace. So you're kind of like normalizing it, which is the next one on the list. How do you normalize them? That's kind of a counseling word. And what that means is like, how do I make it where you're not just this crazy freak out there who has no values and who doesn't have any self control, right? And can say, dude, it happens. One of the things I, I say to people a lot is like, especially if it comes to alcohol, something like that. I'm like, dude, if you use something pretty regular, like, your body's going to get dependent on it, right? Like if you take your antidepressant, your body's going to get dependent on it. If you drink caffeine every day, your body's going to get dependent on it. If you smoke cigarettes, you're going to get addicted to cigarettes. You know, we don't have this thought out there for the most part. We don't think like, oh, I'm going to be able to smoke cigarettes, but I won't get addicted. But we do have a thought out there that, oh, I'm Going to drink alcohol for a long period of time. I'm not going to get addicted. Like it's kind of silly, right? And so when you, when you can normalize something that way and say, hey, it's not that crazy, like it's actually pretty normal. And the other thing that I'll, I'll do along with that is I'll just say it's just brain stuff. Like it's just biology. Like this is what our brains do. And it actually does that to a lot of stuff. And it's not even that abnormal. It's actually kind of normal. And now we just, we just got you in this situation, but we're gonna get you out, right? Like this just your thing. Everybody's got a thing. We're gonna get you out. So what family members want to do is they want to do the opposite. Everything I just said, they're trying to get the person to see how severe it is. This is horrible. You're ruining this marriage, you're hurting your kids, like you're going to lose everything. It's like you're trying to say it and more serious, more intent because you think the bigger you build it up, the more likely they are to see it. Because you're still, you're trying when you're doing that, you're trying to break through their denial. That's not what you do. You just like opening the door and invite them to step out. You can bite them to step out when it's not so scary to step out. So I know that seems silly, especially because sometimes people are in a dire situation. But I've learned it doesn't make it happen faster to try to cram it down their throat. I'm telling you, it just doesn't on anybody. And especially, especially if you have like a stubborn headed family member. Some people are more stubborn than others. It really, all people will resist it. Some will really, really. Then they'll just dig in just to spite you. Because they really can't stand to be controlled or feel controlled or be told something, right? Told what they can and can't do. You've got to make it less scary. You gotta like normalize in some way. You got to make it where their ego can handle hearing it. Stop trying to scare them straight. I don't believe in scared straight. It doesn't work. You want to make it less scary, not more scary. Opposite. Next thing you want to do is kind of goes along with this, is maybe even validate how they got in this situation. Like sometimes I'm Hearing somebody's story and maybe they've been through some hard stuff. Usually they have. I'm like, dude, I'm surprised you don't drink more. Golly, you've been through some stuff, right? And then it helps them to feel like, I know, right? Doing actually pretty good, right? I'm like, you kind of are doing actually pretty good given all that stress you're under or whatever. So you kind of hearing their stresses that and that you can only get that if you do step one, which is the reflective listening. Like, you can only do this part effectively if you've really, really, like, listen to someone. Because you got to know what their reasoning is. Why do they think they use this substance? Why do they think they need this substance? Not what you think what they think, and then use that piece of information to say, well, yeah, or, you know, it happens to a lot of people. I see a lot of business guys and I tell them, I'll say, look, I see a lot of business guys and I literally think like, the occupation itself sets you up to be alcoholic. The traveling, the having to be at hotels, the eating dinners by yourself, the feeling lonely, the jet lag, like, And I tell them, they're like. And then they're like, yeah, you're kind of right. Like, yeah. Plus you probably have to like take people out and like whine and dine them and be all friendly to strange people you don't even know. Like, the whole situation's like a setup. And then they're like, yeah, like say, of course this happened to you. And it feels so much less scary to step out in to. Okay, yeah, you're right. I have this problem because you're not saying it is the worst thing ever. I mean, a lot of times in actuality, it is the worst thing ever. And it probably is the thing that's literally threatening their life, their livelihood, their family. But it is not the best way to go about getting someone to sort of let the curtain come down and see and admit the problem. The other thing that you can do is build someone up. If you can help someone feel more confident in themselves, it doesn't have to be related to the substance. Just in general, they feel better about themselves, then they don't need nearly as many protective mechanisms, right? It's like when you have pretty good self esteem, you can admit what your flaws are because you don't even care because you know you got good things right, like, you know what your bad things are. Doesn't bother you if you feel terrible about yourself about every Single thing about yourself, you, you. It's like you can't. You can't even admit your falls because it hurts and it feels so deep, so, so helping to see what their strengths are. And that is another thing that you can only really do if you either really know the person well or you do all that reflective listening so you can kind of understand. And I don't just mean build you up like the way maybe like your mom says, oh, you're just great and you're fabulous. Like, it has to be believable. And so in order to make it believable, it has to be genuine. Like, you have to mean it when you say it. So you have to, like, find real things about that person, real strengths that they have, real characteristics that they have that you like about them or that you notice about them or you think makes them special or whatever, and reflect that to them, because then you're building them up. And the stronger they feel and the less scary the admitting it feels, the more likely they are to step out on the other side. What is that? I can't help but think there's like a fable, metaphor. I don't know what you call it, but it's like, I think you hear it when your kids, like the sun and the clouds, got into an argument one day and they made a bet on who. Who could make the man take the jacket off faster. And so the. The clouds or the wind or whatever blew and blew and blew. And the harder the wind blew, the. The more the man held his jacket on and the sun, he just came out and he just glowed and made it warm. And guess what? The guy took his jacket off. That's what I want you to think about when you're in this situation. Like, coming at someone hard and heavy is not going to make them take their shield down. It's just not. So build them up, make it seem less scary. Tell it to them in a way that doesn't destroy their ego, because even once they admit it, you need them to know not only that they have a problem, but that they're strong enough to fix it and that they can fix it and that they're gonna fix it. A lot of, and I talk about this in other videos, but a lot of the language I use is, is like, you got this like, you're halfway done now. Like, you've already, like, done all trial and error. You kind of already know what works. Like, we just gotta do it, you know? And so you want them to know they have the problem and you want them to know they can fix it. It's just. It's hard because when everything you hear about addiction is, like, dramatized, it's over scary. It's like no one beats it. You know, one in 10 people. All this stuff that it scares people to death, and it just seems like this big, ugly monster. So of course you don't want to admit you have it. And then if you do admit you have it and you're hearing all this stuff about how no one ever beats it, and you're definitely not the person or whatever, then you haven't done anybody any favors. So it's really the opposite of what your instinct is. Now, the next one, if you see me looking, it's because I got my list over here is, well, I'll just throw this one here. Always make sure you're not forcing. And so the next one is to really watch and pay attention to their body language as you're talking to them. And. And you'll want. You'll physically see someone close up. You'll see the expression on their face, whether they're agreeing with you, because they'll just shake their head. They're like. You'll know that they're, like, with you if you're paying attention to them. And in order to pay attention to somebody, you can't always be thinking about what you want to say next and what you want them to know. You have to kind of put that back here and not worry about that. You're literally. You're trying to get in zone with somebody. It's like you're trying to get in the rhythm with them. And in my mind, what it feels like when I meet a new client, and I'm trying to sort of find the rhythm and figure out who they are and figure out what's going on and figure out how to connect to them. It's like, in my mind, what I can see is like, two little girls standing on the street doing the jump rope. And, you know, you watch them and you're like, counting and you're trying to figure out where to jump in. That's. That's kind of what it's like. You want to get that rhythm, and you kind of want to find the pace of what's happening with that person. And you'll. You'll know you're on the rhythm because they'll give you the violence, shake their head, and if I say something and then they get kind of like a. A look or squished up or I'm not sure, then I'll stop And be like, now, what was that look? What you squished your face up. What was that about? What are you thinking? And so you pay attention to them. And. And if you go too far, stop or backtrack or explain it different or. I talked about this in my last week's video. You know, say something like, I could be wrong. I don't. I don't know. What do I know? You know, But I heard of this. This happened some other people one time. I don't know. I don't know if that's you or not. You know, you can kind of like soften it down again so that the other person doesn't feel like you're forcing. But you have to be watching their body language and their cues when you're engaging in a conversation about it. And then another thing about watching what's going on when you're having a conversation with them is don't stay on this topic for long periods of time, even in session. You know, regular counseling sessions or coaching sessions are about 50 minutes to an hour long. And I mean, rare occasion. Can I think of that entire 50 minutes that I was working with someone has been like heavy, intense, therapeutic conversation. It's too much. It's too long. People can't tolerate that. So you kind of have to wait for your window. You have to wait for these, like, natural openings in the conversation to be able to get them to be real about what's going on with them. Right. You can't force that conversation to happen. Just wait until the natural moment. And then when you have that window that's kind of open and you can tell because they're kind of clicking with you, and you've got them talking about their. Whatever's happening. You know, they. They may say something like, this is what we call change talk. And this is what you can see in the clinical video I told you about, that you can watch. People will say something like, I'm definitely not alcoholic. I mean, okay, every now and then I drink a little bit too much. I probably should, like, rain it back. That's change talk, right? And. And so you want to pay attention to that, and then you want to grab onto that. Which leads me to my next one, which is find out what motivates them. Them. Find out what they care about. And really, there's sort of two sides to this find out thing. Find out maybe what in their mind might be some benefits of making a change. Not in your mind, in their mind. And find out in their mind what are some frustrations that they have about the current behavior, substance abuse, whatever it is, if they feel safe enough, they'll. They'll tell you that. Like I said, somebody might tell you something like, yeah, I do drink too much sometimes. Like, I probably should bring that back. And here's what I'll say. When you're listening to this as a family member, you're gonna hear the first part of that statement, which is, I'm not an alcoholic. And then your head's gonna go crazy. And then you're gonna want to be like, oh my God, if you're not alcoholic, I don't know what alcohol is. Like, that's what you're gonna be thinking, right? No, I want you to hear the second part, which is occasionally probably overdo it. And you're not going to want to hear that part because in your mind it's going to be. They're minimizing it, right? And my mind is like, oh, there it is. Like I'm just looking for it. And then I might say, what makes you say that? Right? Because that tells me there's a little bitty spot right there where this person's admitting that they don't like something about their drinking, drug use, whatever, Fill in the blank. Any of these words I'm using are interchangeable. It doesn't matter the addiction. And they're telling me a little window, something they don't like about it. So then I want to find out more. I want to say, why do you say that? Well, okay, sometimes I'm gonna drink too much. I drunk text my ex girlfriend or something like that, or Max boyfriend. I make a fool of myself. I'm like, oh, God, like, that's miserable, right? Like, there should be some kind of like, friend code, like, you know, you have designated driver. They should have like designated. Don't let me text my ex friend or something like that, you know, And I'll say something even funny like that to the person because then it's not scary. They don't feel like. I mean, it's almost like they're telling you something and they're confessing it, but you make it less scary and they'll tell you the next scary thing. They're like, oh, yeah, you should hear this one time I did this. And. And actually, I really gotta quit doing that because if I do that, I'm gonna run. Person I'm dating right now, and I really like this person. Now we have what started with the little seed, and we have a bigger piece and. And I can take that piece. I can say what do you? I mean, why is this current person so great? Right? And then they start telling me why this current person is so great and they love this person and this really is the best person ever, and they really don't want to blow it. And then I have them saying all these things and then they start saying, yeah, I really do gotta address this drinking, because it's just not worth it. It's not worth my losing this job, this whatever. And this is what I mean by find out what motivates them. Find out what their complaints are about the substance. And it's probably not going to be yours. And it probably feels like the smallest little thing that they shouldn't even be concerned about with the big old mess that they're in. You're like, you worried about that and this when your whole house is on fire, right? But. But maybe because of their denial, that's the only little piece that they can see of the problem is that little thing, because they can't tolerate to see that their whole house is on fire. So it's in there. There's. There is. By the time someone gets to the point that you're. That you're watching my videos and you're trying to break through their denial, that means it's. It's going on long enough and it's bad enough that I promise you, there is something in there that they don't like about it. There. There may be a lot of things I do like, but I promise you there's something about their current situation that they're unhappy with. And there is a piece inside of there that does want that to be different. And your job is to find it. In order to find it, you gotta listen for it and it'll come out in like tiny little. Sometimes I call them seeds or just little like a. A string on the sweater and you start pulling it and then there's more and more and more and more. That's what it's like. And you just have to listen for those and find them. And the safer someone feels with you, the more of those pieces that they'll give you. And so when you combine these things I'm teaching you, and if you, like I said, if you want to go to the super master level or whatever, you can learn the motivational interviewing stuff. This, this is how you get someone out of nowhere. This is how you don't break through someone's. Now, this is how you get someone to step out of their own shield. It's making it less scary, not more scary. We. We want to scare people into seeing a big, scary problem, right? Let's not. Let's not do that. Like, it think of, like, a little scared kid, like, in the closet, and they're scared there's monsters out there in the room. You don't say, oh, my God, so terrible. You got to come out here, right? You say, no, I'm looking at. It's not that scary. It's like. It's really like a kitten. It's kind of like, fluffy. You probably won't pet it. You know what I mean? Like, make it less scary, not more scary. And I know that that's against your instinct. The hard part is not the techniques. The hard part is controlling that voice inside of your head because your alarms are going off. Don't make this conversation last for very long. Please walk away from it. I started tell you before. I have hour sessions and maybe depends on the person. Some people can tolerate longer. Maybe 20 minutes is like, hard and heavy talk. And the whole rest is like, other stuff they want to talk about, like probably having at work or something's going on with their friend or something silly they want to talk about. That's just the other important thing you have to do to build trust with someone is you have to make it. Like, not every conversation is going to be about that. In fact, there should be very few. So you don't have to make it seem scarier. You definitely don't need to talk about it all the time. And when it. When they do sort of show some willingness to engage in a conversation about this, you need to be very, very strategic about how you interact with it, because it's going to either set you back five months or set you forward five months. Okay? And so don't cram it down. Wait for your moment. And sometimes your moment, your. They have moments, I call them moments of clarity. Usually happens after something not so great happens. And that's usually a moment where they might be willing to talk about it. They're not usually willing to say, like, oh, my God, I'm the worst person ever. Like, I gotta go straight to treatments for 60 days. Like, don't be waiting for that. That's not coming. That can come, but you gotta get in there layer by layer by layer. All right, let's see who's with us? And have you found out from you guys what's your experience of this? If you're watching and you are in recovery, I want to know from you who is a person in your life that you listened to more, who got through to you? More than the other people. And how and why did they do it? What was special about either the that person or how they interacted with you? Why was it that you were able to hear their voice versus maybe every. Everybody else's voice? How did they get through to you? How did that work? Why would they say all that stuff? Because you might, you might even think of some things I hadn't even thought of, like, oh, yeah, that's a good one. Let's see who we have here. Hello, wm. WM says. Let's see if we can look at WM says. My alcoholic's favorite saying is, I don't have a drinking problem. You have a problem with my drinking, therefore you have the drinking problem. Wth just happened here. I hear you. Right. So that tells me if the person is saying that, that means you're coming too directly at it. Right? So not only did you get the shield, but you got shots fired back at you. Oh, you're the one with the drinking problem, not me. So that's because you're trying to convince them that they have a drinking problem. So instead of trying to convince someone that they have a drinking problem, maybe wait for your moment and just try to get them to say one little thing about drinking that they don't like. Maybe make some bloated. Hey, that's their thing. Maybe makes their head hurt the next day. Maybe it makes them where they're not bringing their A game at work or school or whatever. Listen for their one little thing and grow it, pull it at it. Their thing. Hey, Emma. Hey, Jordan and Jennifer. Let's see Michelle. Let's see what Michelle has to say here. Talked to my ex last night. He sounded awful. Said he wanted to die. I don't know where he is. I offered to take him for help, but I don't know where he is. That is a very scary situation, spirit, particularly because you don't know where he is. And, and I don't even know if your ex was intoxicated when they were saying this to you, but that makes it even more scary because it means, you know, their judgment is. Is impaired. I do have a video on this channel, Michelle, about what to do if someone threatens to hurt themselves. And I suggest you look at that. There wouldn't have been a whole lot that you could have done in the situation because you didn't know where he was. But if you did know where he was, then you can get some help and so you can watch the video and hear more about it. But basically you always want to take that serious, Even if you think they're joking, even if you think they're trying to manipulate. You don't want to let a manipulation work, but you definitely want to take it serious. All righty. Here. Hey, Anthony. Hey, Susan. Or Suzanne. I'm sorry, Suzanne. How do I get advice dealing with someone in recovery for one year, but who hasn't went through a 12 step program? Is the. Tell me why you're concerned that he hasn't went through a 12 step program. Like, are you still seeing addictive behavior? Are you still seeing problematic stuff? Because you don't have to go through a 12 step program to be in recovery. There's a lot of ways to be in recovery. I would say less than half the people I see that get sober go through 12 step program. But that, but that number is probably a little skewed because my program doesn't require 12 steps and a lot of programs does. But. But a lot of people get sober without it. But there, there might be a reason why you're saying that that's a little more in depth. I'm guessing that there is. Suzanne, whatever it is that you're trying to get them to see, even if it's not, I'm trying to get you to see that you have substance abuse problem. Maybe you're trying to get them to see something else. The same techniques apply everything I just told you. Works on, on trying to get someone to see any issue. Maybe you're trying to get your bestie to see that her boyfriend's a big jerk. Right? Don't go in there and say, you know, your boyfriend's a big jerk. You need to leave. Let her say that to you. And, and doing all the things I just said, it's the best way to pull it out of them. So this isn't specific to substance use. It's just that when you're dealing with someone substance use, you got to be extra, extra good at this because the, the defense mechanisms are even stronger than with other things. Daniel says my significant other thinks he is not going to. Not even though his. With his last withdrawal, he had severe DTS and the doctor said he won't survive another round. I hear what you're saying. And, and that's a situation, Daniel, where I'm sure you're scared to death, but obviously coming at him with the scary news isn't working because the doctors done told him that. Right? And you're telling me he won't admit that he's going to die. So instead of trying to get him to see how severe it is. Maybe try to get him to see how strong he is. Maybe try to get him to see how his life might be kind of better if he stops. So stop trying to get him to see the bad. Maybe focus on trying to get him to see the good part of the other side. That may pull him out of there faster. Let's see. Eric says, ain't no one can break my denial. I'm still here, lying all the time. I can hear my body screaming at me to stop, but I can't put the bottle down. Guess what, Eric? You just broke your own denial. You. You see that last thing Eric just said right there? Eric just said, my body is screaming at me, and I'm having trouble putting the bottle down. So what that tells me is you're not in denial. You. You are well aware that your body's going crazy, and you can't put it down. So it's not a denial issue. But what. What you have. And I don't even know if Eric's talking about himself or maybe even giving an example of something a loved one says or something, but what you have here is, I don't know if I'm strong enough to fix it. Problem. So you. Maybe you have a denial that you can get better or that life would be better or that you're strong enough, but you don't have a denial that you have problem because you just said it very clearly. See here. Do you have a video about feeling relieved that a loved one is in rehab but not sure about staying with them? We. We have definitely. We have videos about making a decision to stay or go. And we have videos where we do talk about, like, that relief feeling that you have when they're in rehab because you're living in fear so much. It's like you can finally sleep at night because at least, you know, they're safe kind of thing. Or at least, you know, there's not gonna be a giant argument tonight or something. So what I would say to you is, you probably need to watch a couple of different videos. Yeah. But we do have information out there on that. Great question. How long does the craft method take to work if everyone cooperates? It's hard to say because you got to know where someone's starting from. You know, they're. They're like, levels of denial. There's like, the I don't know what y' all talking about. Y' all people are crazy, like, there ain't nothing wrong with me level, which that's, you know, starting at the very beginning. And then there's like, okay, I got a problem, but it ain't that bad as y' all are making it out. And then it's okay. Like, okay, I do have a problem, but I'm not no drug addict, you know, like, so depending on where you're starting in that continuum, the faster it's it's going to go. And then also personality depends a lot to it. But I would say if I just had to like throw a number out and guess. This is like a total guess of just thinking about how long it takes in my office. I think you'll start to see changes with the craft method pretty quickly. Like most people see changes in their attitude and the way they're acting within a week. How long does it take them to actually stop? It may take a few months, all the way up to a year or so. Like I said, there's just so many factors in there, it's hard to say. But I can tell you that people whose families are practicing the craft method, like what we teach in Invisible intervention, it happens a lot, lot, lot, lot faster than when they're not. It's definitely the most expedited way to go about it. Here's Eric again. Unfortunately, I think it'll take getting a DUI or something horrible like that to stop me. See, Eric, you've got no denial about your problem at all. You got a denial that you can get better. That's what your denial's about. But you're watching this video, Eric. Do you know what that tells me? Tells me you want to get better. So see, I can. I don't even see you in real life, Eric, but I can see that you want to get better. You wouldn't be watching this video. Not only watching the video, but you're interacting in the comments. So you're already taking steps to get better. You're already on the path. Danielle says I get the stubborn part. He told me that trying to restrict him will just make him drink. I know that's just the definition of self defense mechanism because he's ashamed. A lot of people say that. I literally had probably four people say that to me this week in my office. You know what I say to that? I know you're right. Like we try to deprive ourselves some course we want it more. So don't argue with what they're saying because there's probably some truth in what they're saying even if the whole thing of what they're saying isn't truth. Maybe there's Like a little piece of it that you can go with. Find the little piece of it, you know, even, even empathize and be like, I know I hate it when like somebody tells me I can't do something. It does make you want it worse because that's true. Right, so. Let's see here. Robin says, what's the best way to respond? When they acknowledge the alcohol dependency but say they don't want to drink never again, so they are willing to accept the consequences. Okay, so this is what Robin's talking about. Means that someone is in the contemplation stage of change, to put the technical term on it. And what that means is that this person is like, okay, yeah, I definitely have, I'm definitely alcohol dependent, but the idea of never drinking again scares me, so I think I'll just keep doing it. Your job is to figure out how to get them to think about not drinking again in a less scary way. What? When someone's alcohol dependent, anytime they don't drink, they feel like total dog do crap. So in their mind that life sucks because in their mind they associate being sober with being in withdrawal. And, and they can't. When you're in an addicted state, you can experience joy, happiness, pleasure with anything else without the substance. So that's why the whole thought of living without it is just kind of like, nah, I don't care, like I don't even want to. But what you got to do is you gotta help someone see that life is actually a lot better on the other side. It's actually a lot less difficult than they think. And, and usually I tell people those things, usually they don't believe me, but sometimes I'll get them to say, well, I was like, well, I don't know if you stay sober forever, why don't we just start with like 30 days, we'll see how you feel. You reevaluate it, right? Like you could change your mind. So get them to do a trial period, but get them to do it longer than two weeks because first two weeks do feel like hell. And if they go back before the first two weeks, then they're still going to associate being sober with feeling terrible. Or in this situation where someone has alcohol dependency, they may even need to go to detox. But you can. Medical detox, I mean, but you can get them to try it for like, let's just try it. Let's just say you feel better, you feel worse. Like, and so when you go at it in that non threatening kind of way, most people, when they first get sober. They're not saying, I'm never gonna drink again. They're getting sober for some external reason, and they'll agree to do it for maybe a period of time, and that's a lot less scary. But a lot of times people figure out, like, they feel so much better, they just decide they want to stay sober. So don't try to make them say, I'm never going to drink again, I guess is what I'm saying. Patty says, my husband is in treatment now and he is in denial that he needs extended care. What are some good words to explain that he can't come home yet? And don't make you sound like a bad guy. That's a very common issue, Patty, that you're in. And that's like, okay, yeah, I'm in treatment right now and that's enough. And I'm going to come home and everything's been fine. There's really two ways to go about it. And I don't know your whole situation, Patty, so I can't tell you for sure. But sometimes in this situation you need to draw a hard line and say, well, I'm not going to come get you. Like, sometimes you got to play hardball. That's you. That's really like the last plan, the last ditch effort, like plan Z. Play hardball if you have to, but definitely don't make that your first line of defense. What you want to do is not try to figure out what you can say to convince him that he needs extended care. What you need to figure out is how to get him to convince himself that maybe it's a better option for whatever reasons. Think about the things that might motivate him. Maybe he's not ready to go back to work. Maybe it'll be easier because he won't have the stress of the house chores and the kids and everything else while he's trying to be. So whatever. Whatever you think he might grab onto, get him to say that or acknowledge it. Not you don't try to push it in, you try to pull it out. Kerosene says, such good advice. My loved one did better when I just listened. Sometimes the quiet pause give them space to rationalize the things they are saying. So true. If you are in a conversation and you feel in over your head, this is what I do is kind of. If I feel it over my head, I don't know what to say there. I just reflective of listening. Like it is literally like the go to. It never makes things worse. It nearly like always makes it better. So have that as your sort of fail proof methodology. Let's see. Anthony says, I'm trying to be helpful to my brother, but I'm worried that I'll fall with him. I almost told him to move into my room a few weeks and tell him not to be hired, bring drugs here. But I know that is. I think the rest of it's down here. Too much of an ask and I'll end up being dead. It's just risky. What should I do to help him? Yes, I think that you're right, Anthony. I think you definitely don't want to if. Because Anthony, I know Anthony because he's such a long time supporter of the channel and he's working on his own recovery. You don't want to invite someone's actively using into your house, room or space. And that goes for Anthony and anybody else out there listening. If they are not already in it, do not invite them into it. Okay. You're 100, right? Especially for Anthony, because not only do you not want to bring that chaos into your life, no matter who you are, but you definitely don't want to bring temptation in. But you can still do all the things that we talked about. You can still be kind, you can still listen, you can still be supportive and that is helping. And you can connect them to resources if you want, or you can, you know, you can pick them up and take them to meetings or whatever, but don't put yourself at risk to do it. You're 100% right. Let's see here. P says, my son and I live away from each other. He and his family have blocked me from all communication. Any suggestions on how to get a conversation going or reconnect? I'm afraid for them. Okay, let me see that. My son and I live away from each other. He and his family have blocked me from all communication. So your son, Is it your son that has the substance problem? P. Or is it you that's had it? Either way. Either way, what you're saying, if someone has blocked you, then I think that is a really loud, strong boundary and I think you have to respect it. Yeah. Because I think if someone's blocked you and you're trying to figure out how to get around their blocks, I think that's not. I think that's not listening to someone's boundary. Even if you feel like it's unfair, even if you're just trying to help a block, like, like I blocked your phone number, I blocked you on Facebook or whatever, that's a. That's a pretty serious boundary. So I, I get why we might want to get around that, but I think it's probably a mistake. Debbie says, is it a smart thing to hang out with someone while they are in the middle of using drinking just to be nice to them, to build trust? I mean, if someone is using and drinking, like, actively, like, like you're talking about, like, should I go to the bar with them and hang out to build trust? No, I don't think that's necessary because number one, even if you had a great conversation with them and use like all these techniques, I just said Debbie, they're not going to remember it and they're not in the right state of mind necessarily. So I don't, I don't know that I would do it. I don't know that. If I had a friend that had a substance abuse problem and they had a beer and I was at a barbecue and they were at a barbecue, I don't think I would run away and not talk to them. But I also don't think that I would sort of pick them up and say, hey, let's go, let's go have some drinks or something. Does that make sense? So I don't think you have to, like, completely avoid it unless they're like super nasty when they drink or use. But you don't, you don't have to initiate it. Hopefully that helps. Okay, we are coming near the end of this live. I am going to put up the link up here for you for the reflective listening, because that literally is the most important thing you can do in the description and in the chat. I put the link to the motivational interviewing session if you really want to get really good at this. And I will see you next time. We will be live every Thursday at 1:00pm Bye, everybody.