How to Get an Addict to Understand Your Perspective

Foreign. I'm going to read you several statements. These are examples of ways to communicate your side of things, your perspective to your loved one. And if I. When I. Not if I, but when I say one, that sounds like it might be a pretty good option. Put that in the chat or in the comments. This is like a little quiz, a little podcast. Let's see what you already know. Then we'll go back over these statements, and we'll talk about what works about them and what doesn't work about them so you can perfect your method and finally be able to get your point of view across to your loved one. I know you've been trying, and it's like hitting your head against a brick wall. It's not been working. We're going to make that better today. All right, number one, okay, I can't trust you enough to leave you with the kids. Number two, you're choosing alcohol over your family. Number three, I shouldn't have to pay your bills. You're 33 years old. Number four, how can you. How can you not see that this is affecting your health? Just look at your lab reports. Number five, I'm feeling stuck between a rock and a hard place. On one hand, I know you need some time to figure this out, but on the other hand, I'm worried that it's going to affect the kids. Number six, your actions affect more than just you. Number seven, your drinking is going to get you fired, and then we're going to lose the house. What are we going to do then? Number eight, I'm not paying for you to go to school anymore just so you can fail your classes. Number nine, I feel so nervous when you. I feel so nervous when you smoke because I don't know what's going to happen next, and I just don't know if it's safe to leave the kids with you. All right, those are some examples. There were nine of them. There's probably more than one in there. That's a. This is a pretty good example. So I want to hear from you guys, who has the right answer? And, Bri, when we get to the part about taking questions, we're going to put priority on the people that are participating. This is like a participation grade, okay? And if you put the wrong answer, it's okay, because we're going to go through each of these and talk about what works and what doesn't work. All right, so here's some little tips on what actually works to get your point across to your loved one. In this case, because the title of the video we're talking about to your addicted loved one. But honestly, what I'm about to tell you applies across the board. This is how you get your perspective across, no matter who the other person is and no matter what the perspective is. So these, these tips work, okay? Now the first thing you got to do, and I know you're going to anticipate this one, but I have to say it because literally the most important thing, like, if you don't get this right, none of these other things are going to matter, okay? So you have to get this right. Number one, is you have to hear their side first. And more than just you have to hear it, you have to be able to communicate that you understand their side first. Because until you do that, I want you to imagine that their side is just almost like this brick wall that's built up and it's all they can think about. But, but, but, but you don't understand what about this, and you're not thinking of this. And it's almost like if you don't clear those bricks out of the way first, anything you send is not going to get through. So you, you have to use all of those skills that I teach you, like all the ones in the invisible intervention course, all the ones you learn on this YouTube channel about helping someone feel understood. Like reflective listening, mirroring, reflecting feelings back. And you, you do this long enough till you can tell that the person feels heard. And how you'll know that is like, they'll. And you'll repeat it back with your active listening skills and they'll say, yeah, and then they'll tell you some more. When the container gets empty, you'll notice a pause like, okay, like, I've said it all. I feel totally heard and understood. This is the point where you can insert a little piece of information, but it's super important on how you do that. Okay, so let's talk about. I know y' all heard me say that whole you got to the empathy thing first. If you do not, it's not going to work. Okay? Absolutely must come first. After that, then what I want you to do is I want you. Whatever you're about to say next, I want you to leave room for error. Because when you do, when you do this, it actually allows the person to feel less guarded. If you're saying something is absolutely the truth and these are the facts. And it's almost like you're saying there's only one way to really see this situation. Situation, or there's only one way to feel about it or there's only one possible outcome even if you're right. It's almost like an immediate human defense to want to prove you wrong. So whenever you communicate something, leave room for error, for other points of view, for flexibility and thinking. And I'm going to give you some examples of how to do that. So don't worry if you're confused by that, we're going to come back. Okay? Alright. And then I also want you another tip and you don't have to always use this one. But a good way to kind of incorporate number one, the empathy, number two, the leaving room for error is to say things is to. When you, when you make a statement, acknowledge both sides of a situation. And one way I like to do that is I like to say on one hand blank, but on the other hand blank. On one hand your side, on the other hand my side. And when you do that, you're communicating. I get it. Like there, there's multiple pieces to this puzzle here. It's not just all my side, right? On one hand I totally get blank. That you need X, Y or Z, that this is going on with you, that this helps you with X, Y or Z, whatever. Because it again is another way of expressing that empathy, of helping someone feel heard and leaves room to say it's almost like a humility statement in some respects because it's like, it's like I'm. You're saying I'm not the only one that has an opinion here. I could be wrong. Another way to do it is to say there's a lot of different ways to think about this, but one way is so you're not putting things in like that black and white because just almost immediately you're gonna get, you're gonna get the wall. Right? If you used all your empty statements and you took down all those bricks, it's like bam, bam, bam. And they, they put all those bricks right back. And they may not say anything that you know that, but you can see it physically in their body language, in their facial expressions. You'll know you hit the wrong spot if you don't do it right. And you get like some kind of negative body language or some kind of shutdown facial expression, body language, whatever. It's okay. Go back and repeat the steps you just learned because maybe you do something, you say it wrong and the wall went back up and you're like, dang it, it's okay, it's not the end of the world. Just go back and repeat the steps and you get the wall Back down. Okay. And sometimes you have to do this multiple times. Right. And. And as you're communicating things and they're communicating back, be sure to always acknowledge their point of view. When you can acknowledge someone's point of view, you almost don't even have to put your point of view in there, because immediately that wall comes down, and it's like they suddenly can see your side. And it really isn't so much that they couldn't see your side before, but they feel safe enough to acknowledge your side of the situation because it's like you're coming at it with humility, with kindness, with empathy. So they feel like they can acknowledge your side without feeling like they're going to be under attack. Right. And a lot of times that's why they won't acknowledge your side, because they're so guarded, because they have all these bricks built up because they feel like you're not listening to them, they're not heard, they're not understood. And because they feel like if they agree with you, it means that they're committing to some kind of action or that they're saying that you were right in some kind of way. So you have to make someone feel safe enough to hear your point of view. So let's take a look at those statements that we went through, and let's sort of evaluate them on whether or not they meet the standard or they don't meet the standard. And are there ways we could kind of, like, pretty them up a little bit so that those points of view came across better? Because I picked points of view that I know you have. Right. These are very common things to say and to feel if you're in the position of the loved one. Okay. So these are. These are super common. I know you can relate to them. The first one that started out, this is the one that said, I can't trust you. I can't trust you to watch the kids while I'm gone, or something like that. Right. There is a way to say that that's valid. Right. And that is a safety issue. And you guys know how I feel about safety issues. That trumps being therapeutic and using all the skills. But sometimes you can do the safety thing and use the skills. So if you're trying to do that, then I want you to say it like this. If you're going to say it, I want you to say, I know nine times out of 10, it is totally fine. And it's really not even a big deal. There's just that. That, like, 1% in there of doubt that I worry that maybe you'll get drinking and you'll just drink too much, right? Or you'll take your prescription medicine and you'll fall asleep. I know that's, that's probably not likely to happen, but there's just that that thing inside that keeps telling me that could happen. And because of that, I feel super uneasy about leaving the kids in your care. Do you see that? You see the difference in the two statements? How one has a better chance of getting through, how that seed has a better chance of being planted than the other, Right? Because you're, you're saying I could be wrong. You're saying it's probably nothing. You're kind of acknowledging their point and you're acknowledging that a lot of times it is no big deal. Because here's what they're thinking. When you say a statement like I can't even trust you. Leave the kids with you. They're thinking, oh my gosh, one time you left the kids with me and I had two beers and you're freaking out about it. That's what they're thinking, okay? And so if you come at them with I just can't trust you, they're just going to be eye rolling in their head because they're going to see it as irrational, right? You can even start out by saying I could be being totally irrational and totally anxious. Dad style here, mom style here, whatever here. It's the leaving the room for error because people don't feel like they have to be Georgia or at least not as towards it. Let's look at like your fan. This is not the way your loved one alcohol over. They don't really. Right. So if you're say something like this, imply what are. Because most of the time we imply tension like you don't care about us, you love that more than us. You're not even about how this affects the kids. It's. It kind of implies some kind of negative intention. And to be honest, most of the time the intention isn't. Behavior might be counterproductive, the behavior might be negative, the outcome might certainly be negative. But usually the intention isn't negative. So don't assign a negative intention. You can say something like, I know you don't mean for it to come across this way, but I feel completely disconnected. When you're smoking, when you're drinking, when you're on your medicine, whatever. I just feel like I can't connect with you. Something like that. So it's like again, it's acknowledging the both sides. It's acknowledging. I know this isn't how you intend for it. Right. I know you're just trying to relax after work because you work really hard. And you know what? You deserve to be able to relax. It's just that. And then add your part in and say it in. The tone that I'm saying is not with the. The tone is important because even if you say the right words but you have the wrong attitude, it's not going to land. Okay? So it's. You got to get this formula right. All right. The next one was, I shouldn't have to pay your bills when you're 33 years old. I know what you're thinking. You're thinking, yeah, Amber, that's right. And you know what? I'm agreeing with you. I'm also thinking that that is right. I shouldn't have to pay your bills. You're 33 years old. A way you might could say something like that is you could say, on one hand, I know you really need some help getting on your feet. I know you need some help paying your utility bills, whatever it is. On the other hand, it kind of makes me feel like I'm enabling. If I do that, or on the other hand, if I pay that, then I'm not going to have the money to pay my utility bill. Whatever. So you're. You're. You're laying out both points of view and you're letting them know the predicament that you're in, because that's going to prompt a little bit of empathy on their end. They may or may not acknowledge it out loud to you, but unless your person has a personality disorder, right, Unless they're just completely incapable of empathy, they're going to see your point of view. And chances are, if you say it the right way, they're going to acknowledge the tough situation that you're in. You just have to kind of clear the path and give them room and safety. To do that, look at the next one. Number five was. Or no, I'm skipping number four. Number four was, how can you not see this is affecting your health? Just look at your lab reports. So let's figure out how we can soften the statement up so we can sneak through the barrier. I think you might could say something like, I know that there's, like, a lot of things that can make your liver enzymes go up. It could be a number of things. I can't help but think that maybe part of the reason might be related to your drinking. Right. And so you're leaving a lot of room for error there. Because if you don't, that's what they're going to be thinking. If you don't, you know. You know, if they have a report and some kind of level is up, they're going to be thinking, okay, yeah, but everyone's blood pressure runs high. Okay, yeah, but there's a million things that can make your liver enzymes up. Okay, yeah, but they're going to be. Yeah, budding you probably out loud verbally. But even if they're not, even if they're kind of conflict avoidant, they may not say it to you out loud, but they're thinking it in their head. So you want to figure out how to bypass that. Yeah, but by just acknowledging the. Yeah, but just you say it first. Okay, it works better. Just acknowledge it and then we can move on from it. If you don't acknowledge it, it's just going to be stuck. And nothing else you say is going to land because there's that, like, stuck thing right there in the front. The number five one was said, I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. On one hand, I know you need more time. On the other hand, I worry it's affecting our kids. This one I kind of like because it acknowledges their point of view and your point of view. And I think that it has more chances to land if you say it this way. This is kind of a different take on the first one, which is, I can't trust you to be with the kids. Because I think if you say it this way with kindness, with humility, with understanding their point of view, they're going to be like, yeah, I kind of get where you come from. I see that, you know, sometimes it's been an issue or whatever. All right, next one. Number six, was your actions affect more than just you. Everyone knows that. Right. Or I'm sure that they know that. Right. We all know that all of our actions. So a good way to start that out with humility is, hey, I know that the things I do impact you. When I respond good, when I respond bad, There are ways all the decisions I make have an impact on you. Especially if you live in the house with someone and when you say that, they're going to also by acknowledging that, they're going to also immediately have to acknowledge that their actions affect you back or the other people in the house. You're showing the humility and say, hey, this applies to me too. I'm not just saying just you. You're not the only one called out here. Like, we're in the boat together. We're imperfect human beings, and it just creates that safety for some acknowledgment. It creates the safety for vulnerability, which is what you're looking for. All right, let's look at the next one you're drinking. That was the. Yeah. Your drinking is going to get you fired, and then we're going to lose the house, and then what are we going to do? So this one is about fear of how the substance use. And you can replace the word drinking with whatever addiction. Addiction word you want to, honestly. But it's like, I'm afraid your blank is going to get you fired and we're going to lose the house. Or I'm afraid you're gonna, like, literally put us in the broke house buying pain pills. You could replace it with something like that. Okay, you can say the way I would start out is I might. Is. I would say something along the lines of, this is a leave room for error. This. This could be irrational. Or this is probably irrational. This is something we teach in the invisible intervention called an accusations audit. It's going ahead and saying what you guess what you kind of pretty much know. They're going to be thinking, if you went straight in and said, you're going to lose your job, we're going to lose our house, what are they going to think? They're going to think, oh, my God, here she goes again. She's so freaking irrational. She always catastrophizes. She always so neg. She just thinks everything's about the drinking and it's not. So go ahead and just say. Just say those things first. Just say, I could be overreacting. I know I can worry too much sometimes, but this has been on my mind. So you're. You're acknowledging their point of view first. Accusations audit. Man, that really works. Good. One of the ways I do that in sessions all the time is I'll say I'll be about to give somebody an opinion on something, and I. I'll say it kind of sarcastically, but kind of funnily. I'll say, I know I've. I've known you for like a full 45 minutes now, so clearly I know everything about you, so this is definitely the right opinion. And I'll say it kind of funny. I'll say, but here's what could be happening. And then I say it, and then they laugh. Right? Because I'm. Because I'm acknowledging I literally know you for 45 minutes now. Right. Like, how could I possibly know? Because if I don't acknowledge that they're gonna be thinking that, right? I'll say, I know we've only talked three times. This is my preliminary hypothesis. So tell me where it feels right and where it feels wrong, and then I'll throw something out there and they'll say, well, this part feels right, but I'm not sure about this part right? And then we can continue the conversation. If I don't, if I just say something like, I think you're a full out drug addict and I've been talking to somebody for 45 minutes, how's that going to land? It's not going to land because they're immediately going to be thinking, you don't know me. And you know what? They're going to be right. So you got to leave the room for error. You got to acknowledge that you could be wrong, that you could be overreacting, that there's multiple ways to look at things, that there's a lot of different perspectives or pieces of this puzzle to juggle at the same time. When you acknowledge those things, whatever comes next is going to land a lot better. All right, let's see where we're at. Oh, the next one, number eight was, I'm not paying for you to go to school if you're failing your classes. I think a good way to say this is to sort of reverse it and put a positive spin on it and say, I will feel comfortable or even I'll feel a lot more comfortable paying for your classes when X, Y or Z happens. So you can say, if, if you pass all your classes this semester, I'll feel totally comfortable paying for next semester. So it's a way of saying the same kind of thing, but without that judgment on the top of it, without that criticism on the top of it. And honestly, I mean, it's completely irrational, right? Like not paying for your college classes. All these thousands and thousands of dollars for you to fail. We're just wrapping that statement up in some nice wrapping so that the other person can accept the statement. The next one, number nine, was, I feel so nervous when blank happens because I don't know. Or I feel so nervous when you blank because I don't know what's going to happen. I kind of like this because they're. You're not even necessarily putting a judgment or a criticism on them. You're not saying, I feel so nervous when you drink because you're an alcoholic, right? You're saying, I just feel uneasy because I don't know, I don't know how to predict what's going to happen next? And you're not putting a label, you're not putting a diagnosis. And you can even throw in some of these other things by saying, I could be being irrational. I'm probably overreacting. I'm probably doing that counselor thing to you. And this is like overanalyzing, right? Just go ahead and use that accusations audit, throw that on the front, and then say, when blink happens, this is what happens to me, without a judgment, without a criticism, whatever. And you can say, I'm sure that makes you feel uneasy too. Right? You can even throw another thing on the back end of it if you want to. That also softens it. And that thing on the back end is usually some kind of acknowledgment of, yeah, I have problems, too. I contribute to the problem, too. You know, there's things I do that make you nervous, too, or whatever. So it's that humility, that flexibility, that understanding their point of view. If you get all of those three things right, you will have taken down all of those blocks, and they'll be able to hear you pretty fast. How do I know this? I know this because I use these in session every day. And I'm able to get people to not only hear, like, maybe my clinical or professional point of view, or get people to maybe even consider some of my suggestions, these are the ways I get them to hear your points of view. Okay, Because I know. I know what's going on. I'm usually, when I'm talking to a client, I'm thinking about, well, what's going on with the other person? If I'm talking to the family member, I'm thinking about what is the addictive person thinking and feeling? And I'll usually communicate that to the family member and vice versa. If I'm talking to the addicted person or person, early recovery, I'm thinking about, well, what is the family feeling? And I'm trying to communicate that to them. And the way that I do that, that that lands and that makes people receptive is to use these skills. It's hearing them first start with that, and then it's the leaving the humility and leaving the room for options and for other ways of thinking about it. That way they don't just get stuck on, you're being irrational, because you already said you're being irrational. It just clears the path. All right, in just a minute, we're going to take some questions, some. And some comments from you guys. We probably won't get time to answer all of them, but we'll do as many as we can. And if you will put a question, some question marks or, like, the word question and caps or something like that before yours, then Brie will know that you're actually asking questions. Because sometimes in the chat, it's like you guys talking back and forth to each other, and then we. We're not sure. Is that. Is that for Amber? Is that for someone else? That kind of thing? All right, breed. Did we get. Did we get people participating in there? Were they getting some right answers? I see some, like, answers up there. Most popular of those who commented was number five, number six, and number nine. See, number five, definitely number six wasn't terrible, but it definitely needed a little help. And number nine was. Okay. So most of y' all got it right. We got a lot of passing grades. You guys are good. You're good listeners. You're good learners. Let's see what else we got. Mary Ann Kendall says, how do you distinguish the difference between letting their lives become unmanageable and helping them leaving room for error so they can have the freedom to come up with the idea themselves? I'm a little bit. I'm a little bit confused about what exactly you're asking. The letting their lives become unmanageable, in my mind, is just not fixing their external consequences. So if they make a mess of things out in the outside world, you don't want to necessarily run in it and rescue them, especially if they haven't taken any steps toward helping themselves, fixing the problem. Like, for example, if. If somebody gets a dui, and then you immediately pay for their lawyer, extensive lawyer, and you get them off of it, and this person isn't even expressing any insight into the problem, then you're. You're not helping. You're enabling, right? You're. You're fixing those external consequences, which is making the picture a little fuzzy for them. All right, Marianne, this. This is. You're going to give me a specific example that usually helps. My son, who just turned 18, just moved out, and not under very good circumstances. He's telling everyone I kicked him out, but I didn't. How do I communicate with him now? He's still talking to me. You. You acknowledge the difficulty of the consequences, right? Like, I know it's. It's really hard to make enough money to pay rent. I know it's really difficult to find a job right now. Whatever his struggles are, you start with acknowledging those. And just because you're acknowledging the struggles doesn't mean you're going to take. Take him Back in. It doesn't mean you're going to fix it for him, but you're just acknowledging the position that he's in. And that's going to make him feel heard, understood, a little better and more receptive to your side of things. Tristy says, my loved one is progressively getting better. Hey, that's good to hear. Earlier this year, he was drinking excessively every day, but is now down to two or three days a month. But this slow process is burning me out. How do I express this to him? Okay, this is a good question. Oh, here's more. And I know in my heart he wants to get better, but I'm exhausted. That second sentence. That's it. You just said it like you. That's spot on. I know in my heart you want to get better. I'm getting a little. I. I'm getting a little. I feel myself getting a little impatient. Right? You can say it, but you're. You're starting that by saying, I know you're doing your best. You can, you can say you have come so far. Like, you have. You literally have come from, like, level 100 down to, like level four, right? So you're acknowledging their side, you're acknowledging their positive intention. And you can say, I know I can impatient. I know I am feeling this way. I know I can be rushing things. And so then that's the way you're putting your side in, because you're acknowledging this verse. So you're already doing it even in the way you're telling me. Your own point. Ruby says question, how do I know their apology is sincere if they keep trying to end the conversation and avoid the topic? I think just because somebody is trying to sort of end the conversation or avoid the topic doesn't necessarily mean they're not sincerely sorry. It just means they're really shameful or embarrassed about. Means probably that it's really uncomfortable and regretful. Right? You can kind of tell when someone's like, yeah, I'm really sorry I did that. Just because they don't want to go into the details. You got to imagine, like, that's super uncomfortable for them. So it's quite natural. And generally in my recommendations, I usually say, keep difficult conversations short and casual because they're uncomfortable. The heat inside of you, the heat inside of them is just a lot. You feel super squirmy. So get in, get out. Say it and get out. Because chances, if you stay in there too long, it might go awry. You don't want to do that. Joaquim. Says my kids have started pouring out our loved ones alcohol, which leads to a lot of conflict. How can I get the kids to understand gaslighting without alcoholism, without gaslighting them? Age 12. Okay, I'm glad you told me the age because I was immediately thinking that when I was reading this question. What's happening there is the kid, or kid or kids are getting into a parentified position. Like they're getting into that, trying to control it. And even at 12, I mean you might have to use language a 12 year old can understand. But I think you can explain, like you can, you can validate. Like I totally get where you're coming from. Like we just want to, you know, we just want dad to figure this out or we just want this to be over. I'm just not sure that's the most effective method. Just like I would tell you, like, here's why I probably wouldn't do that because all that's going to happen is they're just going to get angry. They're just going to go buy more. And you can say we gotta get whoever the loved one is, we got to get them to figure this problem out. And, and a 12 year old can understand that. Maybe not on a complete level, but on level enough to, to realize. But you're just validating their feelings first. Like I completely get where you come from. That's exactly what I want to do too. I hope that helps. CCV says someone left rehab, was sober for six months, had a week long relapse, then currently sober again. How do you count the sober days from the original date of leaving rehab or count from after the relapses? This is a good question. Here's how I do that. The problem if you make someone sort of start over in their days is it makes people feel defeated and exhausted and hopeless. So whenever possible I like to damage control it by saying, listen, nobody can take your six months away. Like you can't unknow what you know. You made all that progress and now you're right back on track. So the way I tell my clients to count it is if you had six months and then you used for five days, you don't get them five days. We're not counting those because they're not sober. But if you had six months, you use five days and now you're on the next day and it counts, then you're six months, one day. If it, if the relapse goes on for a really long time. And it, when a relapse goes on for super long they. They emotionally really do go back to square one. It's like they never went to rehab. It's like they lost all of their insight. And in that case, it kind of is like they're back on day one One. But sometimes people relapse, and as crazy as this sounds, their recovery is still working. When they're relapsed because they know what they're doing, they're like, this is stupid. Why am I doing this? Here we go again. And they're like they're getting themselves back on track. It's like that recovery voice was still in there even. Even when the bad thing was happening. It's almost like that recovery was still in play. Lion Waxman says, I feel so unable to respond well, when she just constantly gaslights me, telling me I'm overreacting and I'm focusing too much on the details, Saying cocaine three times a week is too much and dangerous. Okay, this is a good question. Oh, there's more. What am I supposed to do when she refuses to admit there's an issue being in complete denial and saying I'm judging her as an addict? I think your. Your. Your profile name is new here, so I'm not sure if you're new here, but I think you might be. So I just want to say, welcome to the community. We're glad you're here. And your question is super on point. So the first thing you do. Bri, will you put the first part of that back up there? Because there was something in there I wanted to. Oh, here we go. It's about the. The gaslighting, and she's telling me I'm overreacting. So the way you start the sentence is, I could be overreacting. I might be overreacting. I could be being overly anxious. You just go ahead and acknowledge it. And you already know what she's thinking because she's saying it to you. So she's already giving you the answer. You think. Sweet. Thank you. You don't even have to guess. I'm probably overreacting then. What you want to do when it comes to any kind of substance abuse problem is it's not about what or how much someone is using. For example, it's not about how many beers someone drinks. It's about the effect of them. So if you're trying to prove your case that this person's an addict by saying you're using three times a week. Well, somebody could be drinking three times a week. Right. And not be an alcoholic. It's about what's happening because of the drinking, because of the cocaine. So instead of being really focused on what the substance is or how much it is, focus on the outcome. Just this week I was talking to someone who was telling me that his spouse thinks that his drinking is a problem or whatever and gets really upset if he drinks any. And I said, you know what? Because after listening, I kind of, I said, I don't think that she's upset about the drinking. I think she's upset because when you drink you kind of like totally disconnect and she feels alone and isolated. So I didn't make it. I didn't say, well, how many, how many standard alcohol units are you drinking a week? Well, by the definition, it's this. I said, well, I knew he already knew because he was the one that told me that he disconnects. So I said, based on what you're saying, which is you, you disconnect like you're there. You don't do anything mean or anything. You just kind of like zone out and you're just kind of disengaged. I think maybe she feels lonely and then the person's like, yeah, I think you're right. It's hard to, it's hard to argue with it if you use their own words or on examples. So don't make it about the cocaine, don't make it about how much, make it about the effects. Right. What's next? Bre? Michelle says my 24 year old son is back to drinking every day, sometimes up to 500ml of liquor. I know he doesn't want this, but can't stop. How do I communicate to him and that it is time to actively seek support or is it time for me to set a boundary about where he can live? Not in my home. Okay, so there's two, two pieces here. I'm going to answer the second part of this question first. Michelle, I wouldn't say necessarily you can't leave here because you're drinking X amount of milliliters of alcohol. It's just like I was telling the last gentleman, because it's not about that. You got to ask yourself, is there some kind of behavior that's making your life unmanageable, that really there's a reason why he can't be in the house other than he's literally consuming this milliliters of liquid. There has to be some kind of other reason. And it could be as simple as I just feel constantly guilty because I feel like I'm unable. You. I mean, even if that's all you have. But. But probably there's some reasons why you don't want him there if he's drinking, probably because there's some kind of inappropriate or out of line behavior. And so you want to make it about what's happening because of the drinking, not the actual drinking or the amount, because it doesn't. It doesn't matter. If someone just drank one beer and they got crazy and they acted a fool, then. Then that is the acting of fool is, not the amount. All right, so the first part of that question was Bria making it hard on you. I know. I'm having you pop. There it is. It's about, oh, how do I get him to see that he needs to seek help? You don't tell him he needs to seek help. But I sort of visualize it, Michelle, almost like you don't push information in, you pull information out. And so you start with the empathy statements, like, I know this is really hard. You were doing so good, or whatever. And then you ask the right question that gets them to see that they need help. And. And that might be. You can even say, at what point do you think we need to bring somebody on board? Whatever, however you want to word it. Getting help can be triggering that. Just that phrase for people. So sometimes I kind of like to use different words, but you want to pull the information out of them. It's in there. Dawn says, question, how do I effectively communicate to my spouse it is time to leave our home? Since his behavior is toxic and creates an unsafe, unhealthy environment for us both, he has little resources to move. I. I like, Don, that you're even. You're even asking me this question because you're saying because the behavior is toxic and it's unsafe. So you're already. You're already following me, dawn, you're getting an A plus already. I love it. This is good. If you could even take what you're saying there, which, I mean, I totally get what you're saying when you're saying toxic and unsafe and unhealthy. But if you could drill that down even a little bit more specifically, not to, like, one specific behavior, but to why it's toxic, unsafe, or unhealthy or whatever. And. And drill down the. The reason even to something more specific. Because. Because they might be thinking, well, how am I unsafe? I've never hit you. I hear that all the time from people say, I don't know why. She says she's scared of me. Like, I. I never hit her. I've never thrown anything I've never broke anything. I've never put a hole in the wall. Even though there's a lot of ways to make someone feel unsafe, right? Like, you're intense, you're in their face, you're loud, you seem really upset. But they're gonna, they're gonna immediately be defensive about, well, I never did this or that or whatever. And as far as the other piece of it, he has little resources. I would lead with that. I know this puts you in a bad position. I know that you can't really afford to move out. I, I hate, I hate to have to do this because this just hurts my heart because I know how difficult this is going to be for you. You're even. It's just an empathy statement on the beginning. So empathy statement on the beginning. You start with that and then you lead into your reasons why this is just not a healthy environment for you to be in anymore. Because you're living on edge, because you're constantly nervous. And you can even say, this could be totally irrational. It's not like you've ever hit me or anything, but I just feel const. Nervous and sick inside. I, I, I don't think I can keep going on like this. So empathy statement, room for error. And then say, what's going on with you? Without labeling. Cookie Monster says, I like your profile name. Hi. I appreciate all your insights. Not sure if this was covered, but are there any tips on motivating them to get help? I'm trying to be empathetic and understanding, but I get so angry at the disease. You're already on the right path. You're empathetic, you're understanding and you're, you're kind of separating the person from the issue, which I think is helpful to realize that it's not this person just trying to be evil. So you're already really thinking about it in a, in a really healthy way, the way you motivate someone to get help. There's a couple of pieces to this, and I actually have a whole playlist of videos on this. So this isn't going to be a complete, thorough answer. This is going to be the big overview answer. But basically it's a combination of allowing the natural consequences to happen, being supportive and empathetic. Right. And understanding being a good listener. Understand their point of view. And then there's this other little piece that kind of puts, puts the cherry on the top, I think. And that's when you can, whatever kind of help it is that you're going to either recommend or you Think they need tie it back to their preferences, their personality type, something they've said in the past by saying something like, I know you really hate talking in groups, so I was wondering, so I wonder if this solution would be better for you. So what you're doing is you're taking into account where they're coming from. I know you really, like, hate the medicine thing and that's just not your thing. So I wonder if this natural homeopathic route or whatever, this, I don't know, healthy supplement route might be good for you. So you're taking into consideration their thing, and when you anchor it to that, they're going to feel even more hurt and understood. You're not just saying you need to get help, you need a treatment. You're anchoring it on to something that they already believe and no and just Cookie Monster. We have a whole course on it. It's called the Invisible Intervention. But we also have a playlist on YouTube. It's completely free. And that's a really good place to start. Jennifer S. Says, my husband started cutting back and making it clear it was just for me because I told him I couldn't do it anymore. He still drinks a lot when he does drink, and it triggers me. Any recommendations? When he's telling you I'm just doing it for you, he's actually trying to make you feel guilty for wanting it. And so it's kind of like you should let me off the hook because I'm just not being genuine anyway. But I would just not even let that work on you. I could say, I know that this is a big ask, and the fact that you're willing to work on this because of me, I can't tell you how much it means to me. And I know you're just doing it for me. And it makes me know even more how much you value this relationship and how much I can count on you. So you just use that statement right to your advantage by acknowledging, I know this is big. I know you're probably just doing this for me. I know this is really hard and this is a huge ask and I so appreciate it. So that's, that's how I think you validate it and you sort of bypass that whole guilt trip thing they're trying to put on you. All right, everybody, we are at the end of our time. You guys ask some excellent questions, most of which were, like, super on point today. You guys were awesome with that. I appreciate it. I hope to see you all next Thursday at 1 Eastern. And if not, I will see you in between. Bye, everybody. It.