How To Help Someone With A Drug Or Alcohol Addiction Using the CRAFT method

If you want to know the techniques that actually work to get someone to change a behavior, particularly an addictive behavior, or really any behavior for that matter, this is the video for you. We're going to talk about what works and what doesn't. And if you're watching this video and you're already in recovery, totally feel free to weigh in. Do you agree or do you disagree? Because I'm guessing you've been there. And. And before you got in recovery, you had family who tried all different kind of stuff. You, even if you're not in recovery that yet you still probably know what's not helpful, right? So you guys weigh in on it. Let's have a conversation about it. All right, today we're actually going to be focusing on the craft method. That's C R A F T. Now, you got to be careful, because if you Google that, then you're just going to get a bunch of, like, arts and crafts pages, which are kind of cool, too. But this is community reinforcement and family training program. It's actually a program designed for. Specifically to help family members who have an addicted loved one get through the process. It does several things, actually. Not only that, it helps you to motivate your loved one to get help, but it helps you to learn how to take care of yourself. It's helpful before someone goes into treatment. It's helpful while someone's in treatment, or after someone gets out of treatment, or even if your loved one never even goes to treatment. The craft method is really going to help you understand which techniques work, which techniques don't work, and how are you going to get the sanity back into the family unit? Because regardless of what happens, in the end, you got to get the family, the. The sanity back in place pronto. Because otherwise you've got chaos in your life, and the addiction is running their life, your life, the whole family and everything else. And as most of you know, watching this, this channel is all about how to get your life, your family back on track from addiction and get back out there and live the life you want to live. And these techniques are a big part of that. Now we're going to talk about what works. But. But let me just go over what doesn't work. Just as a good reminder. I know you guys have watched me for a while. You already know this, but we need to hear it again, right? Here's what doesn't work. Punishment doesn't work. You know why punishment doesn't work? Because it just makes the person mad and they don't learn a lesson. From it. They just get mad at you, and they think about how unfair and mean, terrible it is, and it's not right. And poor me, right? That's all they're gonna think. They don't learn the lesson from punishment. Now, punishment is different than consequences. I do have videos about that. I'm not going to go into that here. But punishment, which is you did something I don't. I don't approve of. And I'm gonna lay down, you know, some kind of negative reinforcement for that. Not helpful. Yelling, nagging, begging, preaching, threatening. None of those things work either. Those things. And let me. Well, let me add a couple more. Let me add bargaining and controlling or attempting to control to that list. Those things are emotional reactions that are totally valid. Emotional reactions that you could have as a family member. It's completely understandable why you would feel those feelings and why you would have the impulse to do those things. But again, their emotional reactions, they're not strategy, right? It's an urge we have when we feel something. It comes from the emotional part of our brain, not the thinking part of our brain. Now, this next one I'm going to add in that is also under the category of doesn't work. It is a strategy. This is not an emotional reaction, but it's not a good strategy. Doesn't work. And a lot of addiction counselors and people would disagree with me out there. And that's totally. You can do that. But my experience, it doesn't work. And that is creating any kind of like, home contract. I see this all the time. Families want to create a home contract with their teenager. Young adult, or spouses want to create a home contract for the person coming out of treatment. And it's this outlined thing that you sort of create. It's kind of your way of formally, like, setting the rules and the boundaries, but it doesn't work. Let me tell you why, Because I hadn't told y' all this in a while, but it doesn't work because when you're dealing with an addiction, you can put it all down on paper. You can get the notary to sign it. You can make it all official looking. You go to your lawyer and get it if you want to. But if. If you're dealing with an addiction, addiction pretty much will break any rule you put in front of it. Doesn't care. Breaks the laws, breaks their own sense of morality, breaks every rule. And so if you think putting something on a piece of paper, it's gonna be the thing that stops addiction, you're just dead Wrong. But what you do end up doing is backing yourself into a corner. So you create all these contracts, these formal written out things. I mean, in live families, they won't like the person to sign it and everything like that. You back yourself into a corner because let me tell you who will follow the contract. You. You will feel like you need to follow the contract. They will not feel like they need to follow the contract, or they won't for more than like a day or two. Okay, let's. Let's say, for example, you can put in the contract, if you fail a drug screen, I'm kicking you out of this house, right? You can put that in the contract. Here's a situation you might run into. You know they're using. You found the stash, you gave them a drug test, but they passed, right? But you know they're using, right? This in the contract, if they fail the drug screen, they're out, right? So now all you've done is paint yourself into the corner. Because the first go look at you and you'll say, they're gonna say, no. It says, if I fail a drug screen, I did not fail a drug screen. I passed drug screen. And we all know there's lots of ways to do that, right? It just doesn't work because there's all these loopholes and ways around it. And if someone's in an active addiction state, you're not going to be able to hold them to what it says. But let me tell you what, they'll hold you to what it says. So don't do the home contract. A lot of treatment centers will even have you do these before a person gets out of treatment, coming home. And I understand what they're trying to do. They're trying to get some clarity around, okay, what are the expectations and what are the boundaries? I get that, but I just feel like people think like it's formal, it's fancy, it's in writing, so it means something more official. Not. Not to addiction, not when it comes to addiction. So just trust me, it's not effective. If there's those of you out there, they've created the home contract and it's worked. Feel free to, to weigh in on that. But in my experience, it just, it really does it. So let's talk about what does work. Now, the simplest way I know how to tell you what does work is it's kind of a formula, okay? And the formula is this. Real world consequences. Now, real world consequences is what happens naturally to the person because of the behavior, not what you do to the person because of their behavior, right? This is, this is an important difference. If, if somebody goes out and fails their classes because they're using substances, that is a. If someone goes out and fails their classes because they're using substances and then you put a punishment on top of it, that is punishment. And the punishment actually gets in the way of the person feeling bad because they failed the classes. Because once you put the punishment on them, that's all they can think about is being mad. It's like when someone yells at you, it makes you immediately defensive. Even if they're right, we don't want to be yelled at and we don't want to be punished. And that's just human nature. If you're over two, it counts. Okay? So consequences, it's the things, it's the messes that they make if you leave the consequences there. And at the same time, this is the tricky part. You have healthy boundaries for yourself. And one more thing, empathy. If you put those three things together, that is a formula that actually will get someone to change. In fact, I talked to another guy just this week. This happens pretty regularly, but it always just makes my heart happy and warm when it does. I had another one this week and this guy said. I said, you know, like, why are you making this appointment? Why am I talking to you? Or whatever. And he says, well, my wife, she thinks she's great. I was like, well, that's good. I like it. People think I'm great or whatever. And he says, no, she's been watching you. Like she watches all your videos. She's made me watch them. They're pretty good. They're okay. And then as we got to talking, he says, in fact, after she's been watching your videos, like, she's changed everything about how she's interacting with me. And you know what? I just feel bad because she's the best wife. I love her so much. Like, I gotta stop this. This is crazy, right? That's what you want, right? That's what you've been wanting the whole time. You want to hear them say, like, I love them so much. I gotta stop this. This is crazy, right? And everything you've been trying to do to make them say that and realize that is making them think and realize the opposite. In fact, a lot of times, once people get to me and like their spouse or their parent has sort of got to the end point, they've laid down the. That's it. I can't take it anymore. You're choosing that over us. And you know, I'm gonna divorce you or I'm gonna throw you out or whatever. At that point, the person's thinking, I choose the drug because they're so upset with you. And so the threat of me or the substance isn't. It's not an effective threat because like I said, it just makes the person defensive. But when you can change the way you interact with the person, it's going to do a lot of things. First and foremost, it's going to reduce the chaos. It's going to reduce the fighting part of the chaos. And the relationship is going to be better immediately. Even if the substance is still going, the relationship's going to be better immediately. They are going to feel better about you immediately. And guess what? You are going to feel better about you. Because even though we get mad, totally valid and warranted mad, I'm agreeing with that. Even though we get mad and we want to say, and we want to do. And we want to sneak and we want to control and we want to yell and do all those things, ultimately, in our heart of hearts, we know it's not right. And we feel bad about what we did because we know we act like a crazy lunatic, right. As the family member. And. And you think it's going to make you feel better, scream and say all that stuff that you've been wanting to say, but it doesn't. Right? Doesn't do anything because it makes them say even meaner things to you back. Right. So then you're even madder at them. It definitely didn't get them to say, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry, I'm a terrible drug addict. I'm going to treatment. It does. Didn't. Didn't make him say that. Right. All it makes them say is you're just a controlling, nagging fill in the blank. Right. You're not going to leave that feeling better. So I know it's an urge that we want to do. It's a valid urge, but it's not helpful. You guys know I like to talk about strategy. When you put those three things in place, the tide will start to shift. I'm not saying they're going to immediately stop whatever the addictive behavior is, but you can see almost a pre. Immediate change in the situation. What you're going to see is the heart starts to shift. Their heart and your heart. You see, I want you to think of it like they're possessed because they kind of are with this addiction. And when you're yelling and screaming and nagging and preaching and threatening and ultimatum in and all that kind of stuff. You just arguing with like this demon possession over here, right? And it likes to argue with you. In fact, it wants you to do those things because when you do those things, it continues the addiction. It wants you to argue, act like that. If you. I'm not saying get ran over, okay? I'm not saying like put up with being abused. That's not what I'm saying here. But I'm saying if you. Because that's where the boundary sparks come in, right? If you allow them to have their consequences, have empathy for them, even for the consequences and the messes that they make, you don't fix them. That's where the boundaries come in, right? They make a mess, you don't fix it, boundary, but you have empathy for it, right? That I'm telling you, is the combination. Now, the craft method is a real sort of systematized, step by step way of doing just that. That's really my sort of drill it down to the important pieces formula. But the craft method teaches you sort of how to do that. It, it actually goes through this process of teaching you how to reinforce positive behavior, how to actually set a goal each week and say, okay, this week I just want the person to have dinner with the family three times, right? And I'm gonna do these things in order to try to make that happen. I'm gonna put some positive reinforcement on those little changes. And so it takes breaks it down into those little micro steps. And, and once you put those things in place, you get that shift, that change of heart with them, that change of heart with you in the background. The craft method is going to teach you all about addiction. If you don't know all about it, it's going to teach you all about treatment options and what to do if the person does say they want help. Because the whole thing here is you're kind of changing the tide, which is going to greatly increase the chances that this person will decide to get help and will decide to do something. That guy I told you I talked to earlier this week, he decided to do something on his own, right? Because he said, you know what? This is stupid. This ruined my life, this ruined my family. I don't want to do this anymore. Right? Because you're backing out of the way and you're giving the person the clear view to see what's really happening and you're allowing their real heart to kick in, right? And the real person starts to be able to sort of peek its head out a little bit. More and see what's going on, and eventually they can make the choice. That's where it comes in. People say they have to want it, which I kind of, you know, they have to. They don't have to want it, but they have to be willing to do it. And you can't make them be willing, but you can help them become willing. And these are some of the things you can help them to do. Now, there's a technique in addition, the craft method is something that clinicians teach families to do. There's a technique that counselors get taught or clinical people get taught. It's a communication technique called motivational interviewing. This is actually a counseling technique. And it has to do with how do you deal with a client who's either in denial or is very reluctant to get help? It's. How do you, how do you interact with them? You know, what do you say when they say this is stupid? My wife made me come here and I didn't want to have this appointment. Guess what? People say that all the time, right? When you, when they come to addiction counseling. Because I don't want to be there. Right? I'll tell you what, you don't say, you don't say, well, you, you got a drug problem and you really need to be here. And you're not, you're going to ruin your whole life. You don't start going to 12 step meetings. Don't say that. It's not going to help. Right? So, you know, what you would say may give you an example of maybe a motivational thing. I might say, if someone came in my office and said something to me like this stupid, my wife maybe come here. I only want to be here. I might say, wow, that's like, that's kind of respect. I mean, that's kind of inspiring that you respect your wife and appreciate your marriage so much that you're willing to come do this thing you really didn't even want to do just to help the relationship. I, I can respect that. That's not, that's not going to be what they're going to expect you to say. They're going to expect you to argue with. And when you don't argue with and you, and you see the good thing in that negative statement they just made you, it's going to make them kind of like listen to you different. Right? And so motivational interviewing is. It's a counseling technique that helps to find the thing, the motivation that's inside of the person already. You know, what we try to do is we Try to motivate people with what matters to us. We try to force motivation on people, but it doesn't work like that. You've got to find the seeds of what's important to that person. And motivational interviewing kind of teaches you how to sort of pull it out of them and grow it. So I think the best combination of techniques is when you put the craft method in combination with the motivational interviewing techniques. You've got the communication piece, you've got the reinforcement piece, you've got the education piece. Now you've got some serious techniques in place to really get. To really get it, where someone is changing the way they think, changing the way they feel about you. And there's some more pieces to it that I talk about in other videos where I talk about how when the person trusts you again and when they feel like you get them, that's really important. They. They need to feel like you can't. You understand where they're coming from? Right. You don't have to agree with them, but you do got to understand their side. Then they're gonna. Number one, they're gonna care what you think, okay? Because. Because you like them, and. And that makes them like you back. And we care what the people we like think about us. Right? And when you do have a thought or an opinion, which you are going to very selectively express those very selectively, it's going to matter to them, and they're going to trust what you have to say because they feel like you care about them, they respect you. They feel like you respect them, and they feel like you get their situation. That is very, very important. I would never make a suggestion to a client of mine until I had spent thoroughly enough time with them that they feel like, okay, she understands me. She gets my point of view. She knows where I'm coming from. And she understands most of the pieces of this puzzle, right? Because if someone comes in and I start telling them what to do, but I don't even have the puzzle pieces. They're like, you don't know me. Right? Like, that's what anybody would be like. Of course they are. No one likes that. So you got to put the time and energy in. I call it building credit. It's like building credit at the bank, which you can then use later when you need it. Okay, have any of you used the craft method? I know we have a lot of, like, clinicians actually, that watch this channel. A lot of, like, peer recovery specialists, recovery coach, even counselors. Do you guys use motivational interviewing techniques? These are actually the two main pieces. There's some other pieces, but these are the two main pieces that we teach inside of our online course for family members called the Invisible Intervention, which it breaks these things down for you and shows you how to do the craft method, the motivational interviewing, and then adds in all the other pieces that you need as well. And I did put the link in the description in case anyone is interested in learning about that. I think I forgot to put a link because I do have a free thing where you can watch a motivational interviewing session. And after the video, I'll remember to come back and put that in there for you too, because that's interesting because maybe you want to see it in action. You want to see what it looks like is so simple. You're thinking, the craft method and motivational interview is simple. It's basic common sense. Positively reinforce people for making good choices. Right? Don't argue with people. These are just common things that if we stop and think about it, we're like, well, yeah, that sounds right. I bet that does work, right? Because it's what we know works in general. It's just. Just because it's simple doesn't mean it's easy. It's not easy because it requires you to get control of all the emotions you're having and all the thoughts you're having, all the defensiveness you're having and the arguments that is going on in your head in order to do it. So the techniques are very simple. Anybody could do these techniques, right? The thing that makes them difficult is the getting emotional control. But one of the beautiful things about it is the more you use these techniques, the better the person responds to you and, and the more naturally easier it is to like them and keep those emotions under control, right? Because they're responding to you better in a more positive way and it makes you not feel so inflamed towards them. So it's. It's really hard at first, but it kind of, once it gets some momentum, it's easier to keep going. And honestly, the techniques you learn through doing those things, they're just techniques. They'll work on any, any situation, not just with addiction. Whether it's a co worker, your kid, a friend who's going through a hard time, and you're trying to kind of get them to maybe see something in their life they don't want to see. These are the techniques that work across the board. It's just interesting because these techniques came from research and people working with people that have addictions because it's basically like a disorder of the motivation part of someone's brain. So you got to really understand motivation, how it happens, how to access it and that kind of thing. If you're going to get around addiction, because it's kind of doesn't work the same way. It's just much harder to get to. I guess it's the case of it. Let's see who's with us. Let's see you guys's experience with that. Oh, and for you, I did put a link in the description, too. If you want to know more about the CRAFT method, you can get a book off Amazon called Beyond Addiction. I think I put the link to it and that will also explain to you about the CRAFT method. So I get a lot of questions about it. I've been getting a lot of requests to make another video about it. And so that's why we're talking about it. All right, let's see who's here with us. We got lots of people here. Hey, Linda and Sandra Mc. Oh, I pressed the wrong button. Here we go. We're back. Christine says, I remember one of your past videos to never make an ultimatum. I have made all these mistakes and more, but he unfortunately will not go to recovery, feels he doesn't need it. Question. What if they have been at the same company for over 20 years and is responsible to pay bills, doesn't think they have a problem, is rude, disrespectful, respectful behavior when drinking? I'm at the point of treatment or divorce. How do you get them to understand they need help? Great question. There's a bunch of pieces of this, and I don't know if I can get to all these pieces, but I'm gonna do the best I can. Christine, you're telling me a couple things here. You know, you're telling me he thinks he doesn't need it, which is probably true. And you're telling me that there's a lot of logistical roadblocks. Even if he thought he meant. Even if he thought he needed it, he would be reluctant or worried about, like, how are the bills going to be paid? Like, will I lose my job? Those are logistical real life fears and concerns. And it's easy for, you know, someone else to say, well, this is your health and you need to put it first or whatever. But you know what? If you're the one that pays the bills in the house, it's kind of important to do that, right? So I think maybe what might be helpful in a situation like this, this is where I would use those motivational interviewing techniques because when they throw these roadblocks up, what our natural instinct is going to want to be to argue back, right? When they say they don't want help, we want to say, yes, you do. You can't do this by yourself. But you don't argue back with that. You just go right with that and say. And say you just find out more about why they don't need it. Have you tried it in the past? And they tell you they had a bad experience? I'm like, oh, I totally get it. You had a bad experience. Have you ever had any clean time at all? Well, yeah, this one time I had three months. What'd you do to get them three months? Well, I did this and this and this. So if you'll have, if you'll just ignore that thing inside of you. I know it's a strong instinct to want to argue with that. They actually know more than what they're saying to you. They know it's more of a problem than they're willing to admit to you. They know that it's more difficult to stop than they want to admit. Now they probably do feel like, I don't want to go away to like 30, 60, or 90 day treatment because guess what? No one does. You wouldn't either. And those roadblocks or concerns, you know, in a motivational interview you would just say, so you're kind of worried that if you, if you did go to treatment, who would pay the bills, right? Like, what's going to happen to your job? What if you lost your job? And, but the person, what's going to happen is the person's going to say, yeah, I mean, I'm the one that pays the bills. They're going to say that. And then they're going to say, but I'm. But I'm worried because I feel like my wife might leave me if I don't. Oh, really? And so if you just wait for it, it's in there and then you, you pull it out. But you gotta be careful because eventually if you do these techniques, they will start expressing. They call it change talk, which is saying things that indicate they really do want to change. And it teaches you how to not just listen for the change talk, but also help identify their strengths and resources and what they think would make it better and reinforce it back. So there's just some pieces to it. It's pretty cool, Christine. I feel like that might be your next step. And I know it's hard. He's throwing all Those roadblocks at you and you want to throw your hands up and it may be time to throw your hands up. I don't know. But if you're not to that point, that's what I would recommend to you. Let's see who else is here. P says, everything you're saying is so true. Even though I'm not where I want to be with my family and the addiction, I feel like it's better than it was. I totally agree with the craft method. Yeah. Is gonna make the situation in the family and in the house better immediately. Right. It may take some time to get the addiction to go completely away, but it's. It's gonna make it better regardless. Sarah sue says not living with my loved one, he's trying to get overnight visitation with her 18 month old. He passes observed UAS for meth consistently for 9 months, but failed hair follicle. How did you pass your ways? There's a lot of ways to do that, Sara Sue. There's detox drinks. There's a thing called a wizonator, which is like a mechanical instrument that looks like a man part that actually has urine inside of it. When they're being watched, I mean, there's just ways. Okay. Their ways. It's frustrating. I know. I think it. It must be a good thing they did the hair follicle. Right. It's like the. The secondary back up there and we've got someone else on here saying too that it stays in hair follicle longer. That's right. That's true. Some drugs are really hard to catch in urine analysis because they get out in a couple of days. The only drug that's easy to catch in a urinalysis is marijuana. It stays a while. But the other ones, you got a time it just right to catch it. So that's another really good point than. Thank you for saying that. Cali nature lover said that. Here we got a question. Sandra says why doesn't the rehab staff won't tell me what day my husband can call me. I don't know for sure why they won't tell you what day your husband can call you. But usually when a rehab staff won't tell you information, it's because the person hasn't given them permission to do so. So there could be some splitting or something going on behind the scenes. Like maybe your husband doesn't want them to tell you for some reason. Maybe your husband doesn't want them to talk to you. He may not want you to have access to his treatment or what's happening and he probably definitely doesn't want them to have access to what you've got to say. So I don't know for sure, but that's the most common reason why that happens. Other than that, the only other reason I can think of is like, they don't know what day, which is kind of silly. Like, of course they should know what day. So let's see. Sanja says, Sonny says my husband became willing to get help when he saw a different reaction to his relapses. He said he saw the disappointment in my face. I was talking to, this was a different guy I was talking to this week who's been doing really good for a while now. And I said, what do you think made the difference for you? What, what was the turning point? Because this is a real stubborn headed mule kind of a guy. Trust me. Like, I know we think they're all seven headed, but let me, let me tell you, this one was okay. I was there. He said, you know what it was when they just sat me down and they said, not out of anger, not mean, just almost kind of like in this matter of fact way, I love you, but if this is going to keep going on, I can't do this anymore. Just, it was just the way it was said and the timing of it. He's like that, that was the thing, right? Because I knew, I knew that was the truth and I knew it wasn't fair. When you come at them and you're doing it all the other ways, then they just defend you and I don't know, defend their point of view to you is what I meant to say. So. All right. That disappointment, it's kind of like when your parents would say, I'm disappointed in you. It's like worse, right? If they say you're grounded for life, then all you can think of is how mad you are. Right? Same concept. Just we know these things. These are real basic things that we know. We just forget because we get so emotional. We forget our good common sense. Right. Joelle says craft method is a game changer for us. We also did the invisible intervention and the techniques from that course have been valuable. Our daughter is struggling traveling, but we are better able to interact with her and take care of ourselves during the process. Love it. Perfect. That is exactly what it is supposed to do. Yes. Yes. All right. Ashley says I have used it and it is a godsend. It really made a difference with my significant other and helped us grow together. I was briefly taught about it in college. Were you, were you in school. Ashley, are you like a practitioner? Were you in school for that? Is that how you learned it? Because I didn't learn it in college. We only have one addiction course in the counseling program I went to, and they didn't teach the craft method. Luckily, I did learn about it later on in the course of other trainings and stuff like that. In fact, I think I actually first heard about it on some kind of HBO special. I'd never heard it before. This was like, years ago. And I was like, what is that? And then I researched it and that's how I learned about it. So. Learned it from hbo. All right. Maria says, I'm new at this addiction stuff. My boyfriend had a relapse. And my question is, an addict one day, will he be normal? Oh, good question. There's a, a saying that you hear a lot, Maria, in recovery. And the saying is, once an addict, always an addiction. But it's not as bad as it sounds. The reason that's a saying is because people definitely get better from addiction. And not only do they get better, they get a lot better. So people can and do get better every single day from addiction. I hate it when people put out all those ridiculous stats and say all those negative things because it's not true. I see people get better all the time. He, he, if he stops using, he will, he'll be better than normal. He'll be better than normal now. But the important part is to remember that that addiction is always in there. So the reason that's a recovery thing is because we want to make sure the person remembers like that addiction is still in there. It's in your brain. It's just in hibernation. Because otherwise the person starts thinking, oh, I can just drink normally or I can just do a little bit of this or a little bit of that. And they want to be a normal person in that way. Like, I want to be able to normally manage my substance use. That kind of normal. No, but if they stay away from that, they'll be better than normal. So it's kind of like a yes and a no. Let's see here. Ashley says it's hard to accept a new perspective on addiction when old perspectives are so pervasive. Yes. You really have to give it an honest try with a set from other viewpoints. Yeah, there's a lot of old school thoughts about addiction out there. And I'm not opposed to most of the old school thoughts about recovery. Like I'm not opposed to 12 step or any of that. The, the thoughts that I probably disagree with are really just a couple. And that's sort of like this tear you down philosophy that only works if someone is locked up in a long term, don't have any choice treatment center where they're going to be in there a long time if they're in an outpatient program, if they're living in your house, if they have any other option that will not work. So there's a few of the old school beliefs I don't like, but some of this stuff, like I said, when you think about it, you're like, yeah, positive reinforcement is probably going to work better than yelling, right? That's just good constants. We know that. It's just that emotional reaction we get to. Jenny says, I've been using craft method with my ah, is that alcoholic husband. He's made big improvements. I however, struggle when he slips but still shows good behavior. What should I do then? That's a really good question. I actually have some videos, Jenny, about what to do when your loved one relapses. But the, the gist of it, the, the big picture answer is you don't get back on the roller coaster. You keep doing your craft method, you keep doing what you were doing. Do not just because they relapse, you don't relapse. And if you don't relapse with them, I call it getting on the roller coaster. If you don't get on the roller coaster with them, they'll get off much quicker, right. And they'll see it for what it was. They'll feel kind of bad about it if you don't get crazy about it. And they'll get in under control faster if you'll just keep doing what you've been doing. Hey Carol, thank you so much for your kind words. Aren't you sweet? Well, thank you for the super chat, Donnie. Let's see. Emma says I used to pass urine screens and be shocked because I had been using consistently. I like Emma's saying that she surprised herself when she passed those urine screens. It's not, it's not easy to catch most things in urine screens, to be honest with you. I actually still, even though that's the case in the treatment programs I ran, I prefer to use the urine screens over the hair screens. Couple reasons. One, it takes forever for them dang hair screens to come back. So it's like by the time they come back, it's like two months into a relapse or something. And secondly, in my experience, nothing ever shows in those hair screens. I've had people I know were actively using a lot like they were telling me they were. And nothing shows in their hair screens. And. And they'll have that in my response, like, what the heck is Colleen? Or whatever. So the. If you're going to use urine screening as a, as a relapse prevention technique, say there's a certain way you have to do it. I actually wrote a little guide on how to do that effectively. And the way the key to that is, is you that in an aligning kind of way. But with the person, like, you're not trying to trick them, you're not trying to catch them. You use it for a preventative. Like, so you say I'm gonna screen you twice a week or I'm gonna screen you every week or at least once a week. Right. To help you make a choice not to do it. Not like you added sketchy yesterday. I'm accusing you of something. I want you to take the stroke screen because that's just going to cause a big fight, right? So there's a way to do it in a helpful construction way. If you're going to do that kind of thing as a family. I know what you're talking about is probably like a treatment center. But if you're going to do that at home, because you can do it at home, you can buy home screens for relatively pretty inexpensive, actually. Thank you everybody who is with us for today. I will put all those links for you in the description and I will see you next time. Up next, I will put these other videos up here for you about the craft method. Bye, everyone.