How to Tell if Your Addicted Loved One is Manipulating or Being Honest

Very, very frequently in our coaching sessions, I'm talking to family members and they're really struggling with, is my loved one manipulating me? Do they really mean this? Are they really upset about certain situations? Do they mean it when they say they're really trying? Like, how do you tell the difference between manipulation, which we all know that people with addictions will do, and lying versus genuine, heartfelt, truthful statements? And I know it can be difficult, especially when you're in the middle of it and you've been lied to over and over and over again, you've been manipulated, you get to the point you don't believe anything, basically. And so eventually it doesn't matter what they say, it doesn't matter what they do. It's like, whatever, we'll see. Because that's just a normal protective mechanism. But there are ways to kind of flesh out manipulative behaviors and lies. And I want to share some of that with you so you can actually know what you're looking for. Last week we talked more about how to sort of detect genuine behavior. If you haven't seen that one, that's another good video to go along with this one. But you don't have to have seen that first to make sense of this. So one of the ways, one of the easiest ways that I can tell that someone's probably being deceptive in some way is that the story doesn't line up. Like, it just doesn't. It just doesn't make sense. Like, good common sense. Like. So, for example, you guys know I like to listen to true crime. And when I was getting ready for this video, I was listening to this true crime story about this guy who had an affair and then, you know, murdered his pregnant wife. I don't know why that's a common thing, but it is. And so the story was, you know, he's like a basketball coach. He left school for the day, he went to the grocery store, and then he was going to go back to basketball practice, but he stopped at his friend, another teacher's house and dropped the groceries off in their refrigerator. And then was going to pick up the groceries on the way back home after basketball practice. And I thought to myself, okay, that's possible, but there's just something about that story. I mean, like, who does that? And who does that with a female co worker, other teacher? It's like, I'm gonna go get groceries and I'm gonna come to your apartment and put my groceries in your fridge. I'm gonna go back to basketball practice. I'm gonna Come back, pick them up, and then go home. That was sort of his alibi in this true crime story I was listening to. And I don't know about you, but when I hear things like that, it's just like little weird bells go off in my head and like, you know, it's like your sketch. Our radar happens. When a story doesn't line up, it's either not true or it's missing very important, vital pieces. And that's usually somebody leaving out something on purpose for to deceive you. And a lot of people try to hide behind the, well, I told the truth. And when they've not necessarily said something that's untrue, but they've left out really big chunks of the story that are obvious that the person they're talking to would want to or need to know, that is purposeful deception. So in my mind, that kind of purposeful omission definitely counts as deception. It counts in my book as a lie. What about you? Does it count in your book as a lie? Technically, they didn't say something untrue, but they led you to believe something that was untrue. And so either way it goes, I think that counts. People will hide behind that forever and they'll say, well, I didn't really know that was important. But we all know when there's. When we're communicating with someone and there's important details. We know which ones are important, which ones aren't. Occasionally, we might not tell somebody something we didn't even know they want to know. But how often does that happen? Not very often. Okay, so when we're leaving those parts out, you can kind of tell because the story just doesn't line up, the timeline doesn't line up, or the reasoning doesn't line up. It just doesn't seem. It may be possible, but it doesn't seem plausible. And you can. It gets even easier to discern this when you know the person well, because you kind of know how they react to things and what their daily habits are and to a large degree, what they would and wouldn't do. So when you get that funny feeling inside, you need to listen to it. But then again, when you're the family member, you get so stressed out. It's like there's this part of you that doesn't believe anything they say, and then there's this other part of you that wants to believe everything they say. And so you're so confused, and then you just get completely mixed up. And you usually ended up telling them that you don't believe them because you don't want them to think that you're able to be manipulated and you're a fool, that kind of thing. But inside you're like, well, maybe it is. Maybe that did happen. Maybe that is true. And it can get really complicated when you run into manipulation techniques like gaslighting. Like they're telling you they are doing whatever they're doing because of something you're doing or that they didn't do it at all. It's crazy because it's like, literally it's like someone can be standing there like red handed, like the saying, like red handed, busted, and be like, what are you talking about? It didn't happen. Or you put that red there, you know, and they throw it back on you and they're so good at it, it makes you question yourself. And, and from the outside looking in a situation like this, you might think to yourself like, oh my gosh, like, why does that person believe that? That's so ridiculous. Like, it's obvious. But by the time we get to this point in addictive relationships, there's been so much gaslighting, there's been so much lying and manipulation and emotional blackmail that your head is just swimming. And when you're in the middle of it, it's not easy to see as clearly. So because you may, you may think to yourself, like, why would someone fall for that gaslighting? But it's easy when you're exhausted, you're tired, you're worn out, you're confused, you're discombobulated, all the things you know. And then the other reason that comes into play, I think that makes it very difficult to tell someone's telling the truth or not is because in a lot of cases, the addicted person believes what they're saying. And so it comes across as feeling and seeming a lot more truthful. There is some kind of difference though between, between that kind of lie, which I would call more like self deception than it is deception of the other person. And then like flat out just trying to deceive the other person when it comes to questions like what someone did, where they went, how much they spent, who was there, all those things like logistical, practical, black and white answer questions and the story isn't lining up and you're getting the truth. That's just a purposeful deception. That's like a lie that they purposely told you. Where it can get murky is when it comes into. When they're explaining their thinking behind what happened, their emotions behind what happened, their rationalizations, their Justification their excuses. When you get into that territory of trying to understand whether someone's manipulating you or lying to you, a lot of times you gotta realize that they're probably manipulating and lying to themselves. And I run into this all the time in coaching sessions because I can see that it's not so much that they're trying to lie to me, it's just that they're trying to convince themselves of something that is not quite true. And like I said, it usually has. It's less to do with logistics and black and white. Did you drink or you didn't drink? But more to do with why you drank and sometimes maybe even like maybe how much of something you did. Because you know, it's kind of like, well, how many gummy bears did you eat? I might say, oh, just a few. When it was like the whole bag. And I could just be lying because I don't want to tell you, but I could just be lying because that's what I'm telling myself. It was just a few, right? Do you see the difference? When it comes to intentions, emotions, motivations, that's where you can get in the gray area and you really notice that someone is deceiving themselves. Now I know the title of this video is how to Spot Lying and How to Spot Manipulation, which we're talking about. But you know what? I really want you to get out of this video. I want you to get out of this video that I don't want you to worry about it too much. The main thing here is you don't have to go to court usually you don't have to prove it, you don't have to collect the evidence and you don't have to make this person tell you the truth. And if you will sort of like let yourself off the hook for always knowing for sure whether they're telling the truth and spotting every single little thing, you're going to feel a lot better. Because think about it like this. What good does it do you? Do they, do they ever really just like admit to it? Not as long as they're an active addiction. They are not going to cop to it. Maybe when they get sober five years later, they'll be like, yeah, I lied to you that one time. But you're not going to get them. Even if you have all the evidence in the world, you're not going to get them to agree to it. You're not going to feel any better. It's this sort of self delusion. We tell ourselves that it's really about our ego. We get caught up in feeling bad about ourselves and guilty about ourselves, feeling because we got duped or because we didn't see something going on for so long, or because we believe some kind of ridiculous story. And so because of that, we get so hyper vigilant and we want to catch every little thing because mostly we're trying to prove it to ourselves more than we're trying to prove to the other person. We're trying to prove that we're not crazy, that it is happening, that, you know, you're just trying to make sense of it and so you can get in this, like, police officer role, which isn't good for you and doesn't do you any good. Do I worry about clients lying to me in session? Not really. Honestly, I kind of expect there to be some degree of that, and it doesn't bother me. And I don't think it means I'm a bad counselor. And I don't take it purposefully because I know when that's happening. It's probably because they feel embarrassed about the situation, and so they just don't want to tell you the whole story. They may tell you, like, half the story. They're not telling you the whole story because they feel embarrassed about it. And so if you're the family member of someone who has an addiction to drugs or alcohol, gambling, anything else, you got to understand that this isn't about you. I'm not saying it's not hurtful to you. I'm not saying you should allow someone to treat you badly. But I'm saying it's not because they think you're an idiot. It's not because necessarily they're trying to treat you crappy. It's all this addictive behavior and thinking. So it's either they're lying to you because they're trying not to get caught because they don't want to be in trouble. It's they're lying to you because they're trying to get away with something, like right now or later today or in the future, or they're trying to manipulate you into being okay with something they've done or not done. And those kind of manipulations sort of fall into a different category. And it's like when they're trying to either make you feel really bad for them, or when they're trying to make you feel guilty for something, that's another indicator that you know when you're being manipulated, when you feel like you're being forced into something that you don't really want to do because you feel Guilty because you feel sorry for someone because of something like that. And you kind of have this resentment, but you also have this other guilt feeling that's more than most likely a manipulative tactic on their point, because they know what your buttons are. With the people close to us, we all know what their buttons are. So we know how to sort of pitch a story or, you know, tell an event in a way that's gonna make the other person the most agreeable to whatever the situation is. So it's like maybe they're trying to say why they need to leave treatment. This is a really common one. When people go to treatment, this usually happens in the first week or so, but they're calling home and they're saying, I'm done. I don't want to do this. Get me out of here. And typically the way they'll do that is they'll either play on your heartstrings by telling you like, something like, the people in here are way worse than me, and if you leave me in here, I'm probably just gonna pick up other bad habits. Or they're treating me badly in here or something that makes you feel like, oh my gosh, I gotta get them out of there. Or they tell you something like, you know, this is really costing a lot. I can go to meetings for free. Like, I. They don't need to be here. There's no sense in it, though. Those are kind of indicators that you're being manipulated. Another indicator is like, when you can tell that they're trying to keep people separated. Like they, they. They're trying to keep you from talking to their sister, their cousin, their friend. You can kind of tell us like they're trying to almost like, not get. Let you get in the room together. Sometimes they'll go to the bigger links and they'll actually sort of pit you against each other. Because everybody in their life has a piece of the story. And the last thing they want is for everybody to get together and start putting those puzzle pieces together. Because then the truth of the big picture situation is going to be very, very clear. So they want to keep everybody apart. A lot of times I will talk to spouses who are really mad at their in laws because they feel like their in laws aren't helping. And then other times, I will talk to, like, the parents of maybe an adult addict who are really mad at the spouse, the addict spouse, because they feel like, you know, like, you're not supporting me. You should watch Amber's video. She says to be nice to them and it's like, what are you doing? You're. You're making my son drink or whatever. And there's this. There's these bad feelings and this sort of hostility. It's not. It's not always like, real surface, but it's like underneath kind of brewing kind of hostility and resentment and blame towards the other person. And a lot of that is happening because the addicted person is telling these people one thing and this person something else. And then not only that, not only is it like this person knows part of the truth and this person knows part of the truth, but it's like they're telling like. Like they may tell the parents, like, I just tried to come home and, like, babysit the kids. I was just gonna take our son to soccer, but she, like, freaked out on me. Like, she lost her mind and she did all these things, but, like, left out the part that last time you took the kid to soccer, you were drinking. And so then the parents get mad at the spouse. Do you see what I'm saying? You got all this splitting going on. And so if you're trying to help an addicted loved one and you're feeling very angry about how someone else is interacting with your addicted loved one, you gotta realize that they're probably orchestrating that somehow and. Or that it's okay if you're still in the game, but they've burned the bridge with someone else and someone else has decided, like, okay, I'm done. I'm out of this. I don't care what happens. It's okay to let them do that. And it's frustrating to you because you're like, how could you give up on them? But you don't. You may not know the whole history there, and sometimes the bridges get burned. So if you find yourself getting upset with other people about the situation, how they're reacting or not reacting, it's either because they really don't understand what's going on, they really don't get it, or that they are being manipulated by the addicted person and that that's why the hostility is happening. Other types of manipulation have to do with, like, starting arguments because they know that they maybe don't want to stay in for the evening and they don't want to do the family event. So they're going to start an argument so they can just get mad and get in a huff and run out the door and slam the door and be gone for the whole evening and blame it on because, you know, they were just trying to cool down or they were just Mad at you. And actually, all along they had a plan and they didn't want to stay and do what they maybe had already agreed to do. So they're doing this fight starting. All of this stuff can make your head feel like it wants to explode. I actually have a whole playlist on this channel about manipulation. And one of the. In one of the videos, I talk about a particular book that really describes all these manipulation tactics, like magic tricks. And they use this sort of metaphor of the magician and, you know, like the disappearing axe and all the things and the, you know, the. The sleight of hand and the distraction moves. And it's kind of helpful to think of it that way so you can kind of understand, like, oh, okay, this is what's happening here. Like when you're watching a magician, but you know how they do what they do, then you can sort of see through it. Then once you understand that about your addicted loved one, you can see through it, too. But I'm telling you, don't get so caught up on making sure you don't get lied to. Right? All you have to do is keep your side of the street clean. I promise you, if you just stand back and do nothing, the seeds that this person is sowing will grow into something. Bad seeds and good seeds. The lies will surface, the manipulation will backfire. Like, you don't have to force it out. It will bring itself up, it will work itself through. And by not convincing yourself that you have to catch them on everything and you have to call them on everything and you have to tell them, you know, they're lying and all that kind of stuff. And it's easier to stay out of the bad guy roll because that's the thing that gets you crazy and makes you want to get in there and prove and argue with them. And now you didn't even realize it, but you got manipulated into playing the bad guy roll again. So once you let yourself off the hook on that, life's going to be easier. You're going to get out of the bad guy roll, and these things are actually going to surface a lot faster. Actually, what's going to happen is the person's going to start telling on themselves, like, not even on accident, like on purpose, because they're actually going to feel bad about these things when you step back and you stop trying to push it and find it and argue about it. Then their natural sort of guilt and remorse and feeling bad if they have it. Like, unless they're just antisocial. And honestly, way less people are Antisocial, narcissistic than you think. I've been doing this for a long time, and I've rarely run into that. Like, very rare, very rarely. So if you just step back, those natural human emotions actually push up to the surface faster, making them want to change faster, making them want to at least be more honest or stop manipulating. In that way, they can see the truth faster if you just get out of their viewpoint. All right, some of you guys were on here last week, and my Internet went out right in the middle of the live. Embarrassing. I didn't get Internet back until the next day. Apparently my wire that comes in my house was pinched or something. I don't know how to call a repairman out. So I'm gonna try to give a little extra time for questions today to make up for last week. For those of you who came, you showed up live. You were awesome. You're participating. You had your question up there, and then all of a sudden, screen went black and you're like, what the heck? So Bree's backstage. She's gonna be putting your questions and comments up here. And the more closely related to this topic they are, the more likely you are to get your question put up here by Bri. While you're getting that ready, I will tell you, as always, there are more resources in the description. As of right now, there's one more spot open to start strength based recovery coaching. Not next week, but the next week, I think. But it's going to get going fast because a couple of people have already said they might want it. So if you want that, you better get it. And there's a. There's more resources down there, so you guys just take a look. There's always stuff in there. Let's have some questions. Bri. Stephanie says hi, Amber. I've been working with Campbell. My son is in the hospital for evaluation. He called Monday night and asked me to pick him up and he would go to rehab. Told him I would pick him up in the morning. Have not heard from him since. Social worker called Tuesday afternoon and said he had not been released yet, but was scheduled for release probably afternoon. I asked if she could expedite that so we could catch a flight to go to treatment at Purple. He would need to go to a shelter or rehab when released, is not allowed back in his apartment. Wait, back. Back up one. Brie, can we. Okay. X fact the process. No call yesterday and haven't heard anything today. Is there a question, Stephanie? Like, are you kind of asking, like, what's up with that, like, why is he not communicating with me? That is a good question. Because when you first said, like, you just sort of dropped off the map and stopped communicating, my first instinct, because, you know, I got the sketch, is to think he probably just, like, went ahead and left early because you wouldn't pick him up. But if the hospital staff is staying, he's saying he's still there. I. I do find it strange that he's not communicating with you. It definitely kind of makes me think, like, what's going on with that? It's kind of one of those stories that just doesn't line up. Right. Like, it doesn't make any sense. Like, at least for him to call you back and say, actually, I'm not getting out till so and so, or, you know, like, later to communicate with me. Or maybe he's just mad because you wouldn't come get him right now. Maybe he's upset because they wouldn't release him right away. I'm not sure. But there's definitely a missing piece to that story, Stephanie. He has court ordered, and there has to stay a certain amount of time. Okay, well, there's still something missing about the story because he's not communicating with you, which is kind of strange. Maybe he's mad at you. I don't know. It's strange. What else we got, Bri? Here's one. Nicole says question. Mother's Day is coming up. Often, holidays have been a trigger situation. I don't think I can do it this year. How can I still celebrate with others and not include him? Honestly? Or avoidance is what you're asking. Like you're saying. I get what you're saying. Like, holidays are triggered because a lot of times, like, if some. If the crap's gonna hit the fan, it hits the fan. Like at the big family event, at the holiday, at grandma's 80th birthday dinner. You know, whatever. I understand what you're saying. So you're saying you don't want to include him. How can you separate with others? And is that being honest or is that being avoidant? I think that it is being honest. It's honestly avoiding a bad situation that you don't want to be in. The thing of it is, it's going to require you to have an awkward conversation for sure. And if I were you, I would probably be just upfront about it. Not angry, not yelling, not mean, but just say, hey, in the past, you know, these situations don't really go well. So I think I'm just gonna go myself this year. Whatever but you need to be upfront and honest in a kind way. Now, your person may say to you, well, I promise I won't drink when I get there, or I'll only have a little, or I won't get high, or whatever it is that they're struggling with. And then you're gonna have another decision, because probably you've been told that in the past, and so you're thinking, like, no, I don't really believe that. Like, I hear what you're saying. And if you make the decision that you just want to go by yourself, you can hold to that boundary. And you just need to make sure you keep good boundaries on your side. When you communicate it, you're going to communicate it without anger. You're going to be honest, but not hurtful. Because if you're yelling, screaming, name calling, threatening, all that stuff, then you've crossed the boundary. So as long as you keep your healthy boundary, you're going to be all right. Right, Grace? Do they seriously believe their own lies and narrative? I would love to know. Yes, Grace. Especially the ones that have to do with the. The rationalizing and the emotions behind what happened. And the reason is because their brain chemistry is actually so jacked up. Like when. When someone comes and tells me, like, you know, my wife is so mean, she just nags me all the time. That's why I got a drink. That's one of those things that they actually believe, like, for reals. Because in some ways, they're sort of orchestrating events to happen in certain ways. Like they're orchestrating someone to be really nasty with them. And some of that's conscious and some subconscious. And the other thing is just that brain chemistry, like when your neurochemicals are all out of balance, you perceive things very, very differently from what's happening in reality. So it feels that way to you. So it feels like it's truthful to you. So, yes, they seriously, seriously believe that. Especially alcoholics. Because a lot of times I don't remember what happened. Sarah says question. Trying to build trust with my husband. He frequently tells me, I don't think you'll ever trust me again. At first, I was manipulated into quickly saying, of course I will. Lately, I've resorted to saying I can trust trustworthy people. Are you trustworthy? Recently, I suspected he had liquor hidden in the locked car. Once he unlocked it, there was no alcohol in. There was no alcohol in there. I apologized and said, I'm sorry. I was wrong. Similar to what you explained in your videos. Am I playing the bag I roll. I think I would give you on that, Sarah. Sort of like not full. It's not full bad guy roll. Okay. But we're gonna give you, like, a few points in the bad guy lane. And the reason is, is because your response is very passive aggressive. I'll trust trustworthy people. Which, like I said, is technically true, but definitely passive aggressive. So it's not like fully out in the bag. I roll. You didn't yell, scream, you know, or tell them every bad thing they ever did or nothing like that. That'd be full in it. You're like a step or two in there. One thing, because I know you're thinking, well, what am I supposed to say? Because you're kind of like batting up against the wall. What. What's maybe a helpful thing to say in a situation like that is when they say, you don't trust me, you're never gonna trust me. You can say, I know. I. You're right. I do have a hard time trusting you. But I know we're gonna get on the other side of this, and I know we're gonna get to the point where we trust each other again. So just say that. That's what I would say. So just own it. But not. Not in a mean way. Kate says they misinterpreted a situation to make me the bad guy and refuse to resolve it or believe my side. Is there any point trying to convince them? So it sounds to me. I don't know for sure because I don't know the whole situation, Kate, but it sounds to me like one of those kind of like, like I said, they'll force you. Sometimes they just set up the situation that no matter what you do, you're in the bag. I roll. And that can definitely happen. And if that's happening, there is no convincing them otherwise. And the harder you try to convince, the more likely you are to, like, really actually get in a bag of roll. Because you're gonna get yourself so frustrated and so worked up and, you know, gonna get your police badge out and prove all this stuff and be defensive, that you're gonna get worked up, man. Then you're gonna be. You're gonna cross the boundary and be nasty or ugly, so you're gonna have to just back out of that. And. And they're. Sometimes you just gotta let people believe what they believe. At the moment. It will. It will surface. 70 says my family skirts around the issue surrounding my mom's alcoholism because I'm uncomfortable to address the drinking. How can we have conversations with my mom when it involves drinking behavior and consequences. Stephanie, I don't know if you've. I've talked about this in some other videos which I don't know if you've seen or not. But before you talk to someone directly about their addictive behavior, I suggest you and you may already have this but if you don't get into a situation where you can talk about other things non defensively where you can have just good conversations about other things and work into talking to someone about their addictive behavior because that's the most stressful high risk likely to sort of go sideways on you situation. There is this like direct confrontation and when you do it, you have to do it and as calm and non judgmental way as you possibly can if you're trying to. Sometimes we get so frustrated because it's like how can you not see this? And we just want to like rip their denial off. Like we're like we're ripping like some kind of blindfold off of them or something. When we try to do it too quickly like that, that's when it backfires. Is that name remember? Am I saying that right? I don't know. I need to set boundaries for my 35 year old son who lives with us. How can I make sure he's accountable? He's an alcoholic and has dabbled in pills. Thanks. Accountable for what? Mowry, I'm thinking like you can make him, if he's 34 years old, you probably should make him accountable for paying some sort of rent and because he's an adult. So accountable in that way or accountable in another way, I'm not sure. Michelle says my addicted loved one has pretty much relapsed with alcohol consumption. He says he's trying to moderate. It is clear that he is bargaining that you talk about. We are having a weekly check in to see if he is try. If his trying is working. It's not obviously how do I be supportive of him but nudge him to realize that he can't do this on his own? This is a good question. My first, the first thought that popped in my head, Michelle, when I was reading this is I'm having mixed feelings about whether or not you should do the weekly check ins. I definitely get the reasoning for it is because it's like we're trying to sort of check on the situation. But honestly what you really want to do when the bargaining is not working is you want to step out and you want to like don't do anything to make sure he stays in line. With it. If you're checking in with him, you might prolong this whole, like, trying to moderate it thing. When. If you would just sort of step back. Obviously, I'm not saying, like, put the alcohol in front of them, you know, I'm not telling you to, like, make them drink. I'm just trying to stop. Trying to stop it. Because what you want is you want for it to go bad fast so we can get out of denial. If you're trying to get him to see it's not working, you just need to step out and let it roll instead of, you know, like, if you're at the restaurant and he orders, he's already had three drinks and that's his limit he set for himself. Three drinks. I don't want you to say something like, you know, that was your third one. You know you're not supposed to order another one. I don't want you to do that. I don't even want you to do like a little sigh under your breath or like an eye roller huff if you can help it. Just let it roll because that's going to make it obvious faster. Jamie says, my boyfriend has been lying, trying, sorry, trying to get sober from pills for six months. He has change talk like, I can't live like this anymore. But five days later, he comes home high again. How can I help him stay sober? The first thing I would do if this person was in my office, Jamie, is I would say, dude, if you're staying. If you're staying, like clean for five days, I know you mean it because probably was really hard because those first five days are the hardest days. So the first thing I know is that they are genuinely trying. If they're staying clean for five days, I mean, that takes some decent effort, okay? Especially if they're been using every day, that takes some effort. So I would validate that and acknowledge that instead of coming at them and saying like, dude, you keep saying this. Why isn't it working? So first thing I would do is say that, and then I would say, you know, what do you think? If this was my client, then I would say, what do you think is happening every five days? You know, is it like the weekend comes, the weekends are trigger. Is it like you're running out of willpower? Is it like you have to work really long day on Thursday and you're just exhausted and that's why you relapse? Like, I would just sort of explore with them what's happening around. If they're having this pattern of like every so many days, what's happening to help them gain some insight and so that maybe they can strategically think five steps ahead of that and get in front of it. Because if they're getting five days, they're trying. Bloom on says. How do you get them to see they are deceiving themselves? You, like I was telling the person before who said their loved one was trying to moderate you, just sort of step back and don't play any of the roles that they're trying to make you play, which is usually the bad guy role and sometimes the rescuer role. If you step back and you stop sort of playing into the whole thing, they'll see things faster because you're not distracting them. You're not fixing everything for them. And it will come to the surface. Denial is something that will. That always eventually goes away one way or the other. They figure it out and they put their shovel down and they get out of it before they hit bottom or they hit a bunch of bottoms. And then it's abundantly clear and they see it that way. Denial will clear if you let it. Kp is there a correlation between existentialist thinking and addiction? How can we differentiate between deep contemplation and deflection among individuals struggling with addiction? This is an interesting question. I like this question. So it's like you're talking about. It's like you're having. You're talking to a person who maybe has tendency to like to have deep philosophical conversations and that kind of thing. It's. They're interesting conversations. And if it's this person's sort of personality, like, that's just like, who they are, then I would say it's just sort of who they are. But if it's not really who they are and they're just suddenly having these deep philosophical, existential conversations with you that have something to do around the drug, then I would say that's probably, like you said, deflection or manipulation. If you think someone's trying to deflect a conversation through either one of these, like, really intense conversations or by a starting argument or by bringing up something else, then I would just gently call the deflection to the surface and say, hey, yeah, let's talk about that later, but let's finish the conversation we're having right now or whatever, because they'll try to sidetrack you. So I feel like I would have to know more about what you're saying. But it's definitely an interesting question. It's at least kind of like a new manipulation diet. I like It I like something new every now and then. How do you tolerate intoxicated person's behavior? It's so draining and exhausting. How can you tolerate drunken behavior? It's horrible to live with. It's Groundhog's Day. Every day in the morning, he acts like nothing happened. My first thought when I read that question, Michelle, was when you said, how do you tolerate it? My thought was, not very well because I'm putting myself in your shoes. And it is very difficult to be around somebody if they're intoxicated, especially on something like alcohol, because they can really be different than themselves. They can be obnoxious or sloppy or angry or aggressive or, you know, any number of things that's like, not even their normal selves. And so I try to get distance from it. So if you're in the house with them, I try to, like, physically get distance from them. If you can't, then you may want to, like, leave that situation and at least do yourself a favor and try to consume yourself with your own thing so that you're distracted and you're not like, literally sitting in that front row seat watching it all the time. It's hard. My answer is I probably would not tolerate very well or for very long, especially if somebody's behavior is, like, nasty. Chan says, I've tried to hold my alcoholic co parent accountable for telling you they would get help as our custody agreement. They get mad and ghost in silent treatment. How should I handle it? Okay, so you're separated from this person and you are sharing custody. Your kid goes over there and they said they would get help, but they're not getting help. If it's in the custody agreement and you've tried to, obviously you've tried to talk to them and they're just not talking to you about it, then I would. You're probably going to have to go back and have it enforced in that kind of way. You don't have much leverage over a co parent. You know, you don't have the relationship leverage. You don't have the eyes on it all the time. So. So I would probably either legally enforce it or if they're trying to tell you, like, I'm sober, I don't need to go to treatment, then I would at least have them say, okay, well, will you agree to some kind of regular testing or something like that so that I know you're sober? If they're sober and they didn't get a treatment, they're sober. Like, if they can do it without going to treatment, okay, great. As long as it's happening, it's happening. So if, if that's what they're telling you, I would ask for some kind of, let me see some drug screens or something. Ann says, just came to acceptance of my 40 year old son's addiction to alcohol. All the things came flooding to my mind. I've been so grateful for your channel. I'm really grieving. How do I best handle this? You know, it is interesting, Ann, because sometimes it does hit you like a ton of bricks. Like for a lot of people, it's like they're seeing it and they're kind of watching it build and they're kind of aware and it's like really long and dragged out. But sometimes, especially if this is like an adult kid and maybe, maybe they don't live with you or something, so you don't see them all the time. It's like, oh my God, they're an alcoholic. One thing is, is that being an alcoholic isn't the worst thing in the world. My guess is even if you've not been aware there's alcohol problems, you've probably been aware that there's some kind of problems going on. And maybe you thought it was depression, maybe you thought like something's wrong with their brain, maybe you thought they were in a bad marriage. I don't know what you thought, but. But now you know what it is. And that thing that it is is very, very fixable. In fact, of all the mental health things that could possibly be going wrong with someone, I think addiction is like the most fixable of the things because there's a very clear solution. And when you do the solution, things get like 100% better, at least 80 or 90% better pretty dang quickly. So I get that it's sad and I don't want to minimize that in any way, but it is a problem that can be dealt with. And now that you know what it is, you can be strategic about how to fix it because probably you've been trying to figure out what is going on with him and trying a whole bunch of things that didn't work. So at least we got it, we got a diagnosis. We know. Let's get moving on it. Aaron says, how can I address the flurry of anger that is feeling like a forced manipulation? He's desperate. No job, homeless, has $18 and a phone, is almost out of contract contact, kicked out of dad's house. And he has had a pattern of being bad. So people feel bad for him and then he disappears. You don't Hear from him, he can't keep a job, sold his car, was living in off and on. Now he's flipped out. So basically what, what I think you're saying, Aaron, is that the manipulation tactic at hand is aggression or, or at least it's like he's angry, he's mad, he's pushing, pushing, pushing. So it's like either pestering or aggression. He's basically trying to, like, bully you into something. Or is it more that he's trying to be pitiful? Because at the beginning he said flurry of anger. But in this second part, you're saying he has a tendency. Well, you're saying he has a tendency to be bad, so people feel bad for him, and now he's flipping out. If someone's flipping out and they're being really nasty, then I would get distance from them. You do not have to take every phone call. And when someone's in a flipped out stage, even if it is a manipulation, they're not in a state of mind to be reasoned with or rationalized with. So I would just back up from the conversation and literally leave the conversation until the person was calmer. Neon Bean says, what is the rescuer role? Oh, that's a really good question. Rescuer is actually a term from. There's this sort of like, model called the drama triangle. And it actually looks like a triangle, but it's upside down. So like, think about the pointy part at the bottom. And on one side is the rescuer, on one side is the perpetrator, and at the bottom point is what's called the victim. And we all sort of get in these different mindsets, and these mindsets cause other problematic behaviors. All of these roles are dysfunctional. The rescuer is the fixer. They're the ones that are trying to fix the problems, trying to pay the bills, trying to like, clean up the messes. That's the rescue role. The problem with the rescue role is not just the fact that it's enabling, but what ends up happen to rescuers is that they sacrifice so much and they do so much and they give so much thinking that they're going to help the victim person that. And it doesn't work. And the victim person just keeps being a victim and they keep having the problems. And then what happens is then you as a rescuer start to feel a lot of resentment. And once you start to feel that resentment, guess what? Now you've moved into the victim role. Now you're a victim, they're taking advantage of you. And then once you Move down into the victim role. Guess what usually happens then? You usually act out in some way, aggressively or passive aggressively, and, you know, tell them all the things you've been, you know, thinking or whatever. And now you've moved into the perpetrator role. So the thing about the triangle is one leads to the other leads to the other, and it's all dysfunctional. Rachel says, is it the same approach when your loved one is on methadone and still seems to be functioning from the addict brain? Also, how much do I help him get into a place to live, etc. Once he is now on probation and is being drug tested and going to the clinic? For those of you who don't know, methadone is a. Is a maintenance medicine for people who are addicted to opioids. And if he's taking it as he's supposed to and appropriately, and he's not taking a whole bunch of other stuff, even if he's taking that medicine, I would still consider him in the recovery process. So I would approach it like that's part of his recovery process. These days, most people go with suboxone over methadone, but it just depends on where you live and some other circumstances. So when you're saying he's on the methadone, but he still seems to be functioning with the addict brain, then it tells me that the methadone is not stabilizing the situation for whatever reason, either because it's not the right treatment, which probably isn't it, or they're not doing it the way they're supposed to, or they're doing the methadone the way they're supposed to, but they're doing a whole bunch of other things. Or if they're very early in the process, it could be that they're taking the medicine the way they're supposed to and they're being sober or whatever, but they've been acting in these ways for so long, it's automatic. And it does take a while for that to go away. A lot of people in early recovery, they just. They're so used to lying, they'll just automatically lie to you about the stupidest things. And they don't even know why they did it because they're so used to hiding. They'll be like, what'd you have for lunch? And they'll tell you, I had a sandwich when they had a taco or whatever. And they're just. It's like an automatic. So I don't know why that's happening. My sketchy part of my Brain says that there's probably a piece of this story. It doesn't line up. There's probably a missing piece. Melanie says, am I doing the right thing by limiting how much money husband has or. Money is really tight by me handling the money. We have the money to be able to pay our bills every month, but that's it. Because I know he will buy beer with the money I will give him. This is a hard question, and it's a great boundary question, Melody, because it's like, we gotta pay the bills, and if you don't manage that really well, then he probably is. What you're saying is, if I don't manage it really well, he'll take all that money and buy a bunch of alcohol, and we literally won't be able to pay our bills. So if what you're doing is just paying the bills and there's not much left over, then I think that you're probably in okay lines. If what you're doing is using the money as a way to try to control the drinking or manipulate the situation, then you're probably over on his side of the street. And the reason why this is so interesting is because it's like, you can be doing this, but depending on why you're doing it is sort of. Is it in the healthy lane or is it in the not healthy lane? Part of me thinks if you're limiting the money, mostly because you're trying to limit the drinking, you might. You could be slowing down the get out of denial process. Because like I said, when they're in denial, what you want is you want it to roll fast. So we can quit trying to pretend like this is working. So there's a lot of ways to think about that. Bonnie says, I went to outpatient rehab and finished. I've been sober 14 months now. Hey, nice work, Bonnie. You guys, like, tell Bonnie that she's awesome. Give her some love. I love it. Mother's Day is coming. My grown kids still won't talk to me. What do I do? This is a heartbreaking, Bonnie, because you've got 14 months sober. You have come so far, and I'm sure you have tried to reach out to them and you've tried to make amends, and you're doing really good. And it's so frustrating because they don't even care to, like, see if you're really doing good. But I kind of have the belief if someone sets a boundary with you and they don't want to talk to you, you have to respect that boundary, regardless of Whether you agree with it or not, no matter what side it's on, if it's a breakup and someone doesn't want to talk to, it's an ex friend. If whatever it is, you have to respect their boundary and understand where they're coming from. That's hard. It hurts. I get it. Barbie says, what is the invisible intervention? I looked for your video on it. Good question, Barbie. The invisible intervention is. Is our process, the process that we came up with to get people out of denial and into the stages of change and then ultimately sober. And the reason we call it the invisible intervention is because it's not like the kind of intervention where you, like, everybody sits in the circle and reads their letter. It's not like this super direct, confrontational. It's a set of skills and techniques that you use behind the scenes that help to illuminate the truth faster and keep you out of the bad guy role. A lot of it is communication skills. It's sort of positive reinforcement and goal setting. There's a lot of pieces to it. The reason why I like it so much is because once you learn these skills, not only does it help get your loved one out of denial, but these are everything you learn in the invisible intervention actually are just good skills to have that you can use in pretty much any situation to make relationships better, to be more successful at work, all those kind of things. What else about the invisible intervention? Oh, the other thing I really like about it is because it does take a little longer than sitting in a circle and confronting somebody old school intervention style. But once the person gets out of denial, the recovery kind of takes because you've literally, like, plowed the ground in all the right ways. So when we get there, we're really there. We're done with our bargaining. We're done trying to blame everybody else. Like, we really get it. That's the point, is to get them to really get it and then take action. Because you see so many times people go to treatment and then they lapse. They go treatment and they lapse, and treatment, they lapse. And sometimes if. If we can get the, the stage set the right way and then we get help, then it takes. All right, everybody, thank you guys for joining me. I'm glad our Internet stayed solid and we didn't, we didn't just go black on the screen this time. I'll see you guys next Thursday at 1 o'. Clock. I actually have a special GU next week to talk about something totally different. Not totally different from addiction, but something you don't hear me talk about a lot. So show up for that, you're not going to want to miss it. I'll see you soon. Bye, everybody.