Inside a Mother's Journey with Addiction (Campbell's Story)

Today you're going to hear from Campbell Manning. She's an expert at Hope4Families who specializes in helping parents who have a child struggling with drug or alcohol problems. You're going to find out why she's not just professionally qualified, but also personally qualified to help parents navigate through the world of addiction and recovery. You see, Campbell's been there herself. She's got two sons. And in today's interview, Campbell's going to tell you what that personal journey was like for her. So, Campbell, tell me about the time or the actual. Tell me about the day that you became aware that there was a problem with your son.

The very first day.

The first day that it kind of all came out.

So I don't sound like a complete idiot. Let me preface it with I knew something was wrong. I just didn't know what was wrong. Okay. So that particular day, I had driven my daughter to school, and something literally made me go home instead of going straight to the. Yeah. And when I pulled into the driveway, I saw the Roman shade in his room move. And I was like, no one should be here. And when I walked in, I immediately smelled marijuana. So I was like, there's a marijuana smoking thief in our house. So I knew it was. And so I went downstairs, and I was like, what are you doing? My Ryan didn't come, so I just, you know, thought I'd smoke some pot. And I was like, no, that wasn't.

The usual in your house.

I'd never smelled it in my house before. Okay, so. So the first thing I did was say, well, I'm taking school. Get in the car. But somewhere my IQ kicked in about, I don't know, a mile from the house. I was like, why am I taking someone who's clearly high, who's already missed 42 days of his junior year to school? This is going to cause a bigger problem. So instead, I pulled over in front of county square, which is a big place where you pay your taxes. And I said, I'm not driving the car one more minute until you tell me what's going on. So he sat in silence for five or six minutes. I said, right, I'm going to start asking you questions. Multiple choice, multiple choice. And the first question I asked him was, is there something going on that you just don't know how to tell us, and that's why you're never home, and you're always angry, and you're just mad. And he was like, I don't know. And I said, well, like, are you gay? And he was like, no, I'm not gay. I was like, okay. After about five more minutes, I said, well, have you like, done something terrible that you're afraid you'll go to jail for? And he was like, I don't know. And I was like, have you killed someone? He's like, mom, I'm not a gay murderer. So I'm thinking, darn, that would have been good. I could deal with that. So I literally sat there for like three more minutes and then I just said, well, are you a drug addict? And he said yes and started to cry. Wow. So I thought, oh, I don't know what to do with this. So I said, well, we'll go home and I'll figure out what to do. I don't know what to do. So we came home and he went to bed because he had done more than smoke pot that morning. So he went to sleep. And I got on the phone and I got out the phone book because that was nine years ago. And first thing I did was call the pediatrician and they were like, we can't help you, we've never heard of that. We've never heard of that. And I said, really? In this day and age you've never. No, ma'. Am. So I said, well, when I figure this out, I'll call you back. Which I did. But so then I literally opened up the phone book for Deeda drugs and because that all my brain could do, and I called a couple places, I got no help. And then the third place I called, luckily started with a C. So alphabetically they were going to. And they were like, this is what's going on, this is what to do when he wakes up. Have him call us for an assessment. We'll make an appointment, bring a bag, he most likely will stay. And so that's what happened. And off he went.

Okay, so you take him to this hospital and then you're still, you're kind of aware he's told you, basically I have problem with drugs. But you don't really know any details. You don't know exactly what you're doing.

I knew absolutely nothing. And it was awful and good at the same day. Because I remember thinking while this was going on, this is not my life. Like what's happening.

Like an outer body experience.

Yeah. And then literally leaving him once we got him on the adolescent unit, I remember thinking, oh, oh, can I just leave my son here?

How old was he, by the way?

Since you said Just turned 17.

Turned 17.

Just turned 17. And I remember just walking like leaden footed out to the car, thinking, God, this is terrible. But then somehow I was like, but he'll be better in a week, and so this will be fine. And I called my husband, who's out of town, and he said, daishi, you don't need me to come home. I said, no, because in a week he'll be home and he'll be better. He was like, okay.

So you felt, like, relieved a little bit.

I did. I felt relieved. I went home. My other children were home. We made lasagna. It was the night before Valentine's Day, which, you know is my favorite day because it's so fat. Hearts. And we made lasagna, and I felt fabulous.

Have you ever had. You ever known anyone that had a drug problem before?

No.

So you literally just like, walking into this, like, totally blind.

Totally blind. And I had known something was weird, but I never smelled alcohol or marijuana. So at this point, I'm thinking, it can't be. There is nothing else, because that's. What else would a teenager do? So it must just be. I haven't caught him smoking marijuana. And so I really thought they would just fix it.

And so even when he said, I have a drug problem, you still thought with marijuana or like, you didn't know.

What you were doing? No, I did not know.

And then there was like some sort of family session or something, right?

Yeah. I blocked that man's name out, as you know. So Wednesday, Frank and I had to go into the hospital to meet with one of the counselors, and I. He sat us down in that little room, and he literally said, you, son is one of the worst drug addicts I've ever seen.

Wow.

And he used the word addict and worst. And I literally thought. And then he went on to talk, and it was horrible, horrible, horrible. He said he's med seeking even in the hospital that what he's telling them is pretty severe addiction. And I so remember this day because it was the second to the worst day of my life. But we. We left. We had driven separately, and Frank got in his car and I got behind him, and then I let him go ahead of me, and he went around the curve and I turned into the left and just parked in a building business parking lot and lost it. Like, keened. Whenever I heard the word keen. That's. That's my.

Because it's just now hitting you.

This is horrible. And this is not going to go away.

We have a big problem.

We have a big problem that's gonna take a long time to fix.

Okay?

And it was awful. I remember going back to work that day and everyone was like, you look horrible. I said, well, I probably just. I'm really surprised someone didn't call 911 from the building parking lot where I was, cuz I was like, hitting the steering wheel. It was awful.

Wow.

It's terrible.

So I'm guessing he wasn't better in a week.

Yeah, he was.

He wasn't.

Yeah, it was nice. No, he wasn't. No, he wasn't better for a long, long time.

So there was some ups and downs.

Was he.

Since he sort of confessed in the car, was he like, immediately open and willing and ready to do treatment?

No.

How'd that go down?

So that led me to meet you, as you well know.

You're like Amber. You know how that.

You know this story, this is set up. So that Friday he was supposed to get out of the hospital. And the plan had been for him to start Iop, at which you were running. And there had been a mix up. And he has type 1 diabetes at Dharma. And so there had been a mix up. He didn't have the pump in the hospital, but I was supposed to bring the pump back to him. And somehow that morning, he called Frank and said, they're gonna let me come home this morning and I'll go back to group. And even then I knew that's a dumb idea, so I said no. So I called the hospital and said, he's not. So by the time I go in that night to give him his pump to start Iop is when you grab me in the hall and said, are you his mother? And I wanted to say, hell no, but I knew I was. And so you said he'd been fiending all day, he was just being a total pill. And that I just needed to follow your lead when we brought him in to your office before Iop, and that's what I did.

And so he came into Iop, stayed in Iop for a little while. He did a little sort of like back and forth for like a. A few.

Not that long. Well, it means only stayed in Iop, like two or three weeks. And then you kicked him out.

Which I just want to say, if Amber kicks you out Iop, you're security. It's bad. Yeah, it's really bad.

Yeah. I guess buying drugs, trying to buy drugs from other people in the group was a no go.

Yeah, that's kind of. I don't have any rules, but that's one of them. So.

But he.

He was in and he was out, and he was like Back in. And then he did like a short.

Well, he would come in and out of our house and then when he would get desperate he would. Yes, then. So that was February and then Easter was in early March, April that year, I think. And we took him the week before Easter to a faith based, no cost place because you said he's not really ready, but let's try this. And he did. He did seem to know he had a problem at that point because they made him call every day for like 10 days before they would take him. And he was for the most part at home that 10 days. I knew when we took him he wasn't going to stay there. It was too rigid, too punitive. So he made it a big three days and then he came home and it was like two or three days before Easter and Easter after church. I came home and he went with us. But while I was like getting Easter started, dinner started, he was smoking marijuana in the bathroom and then he left. Like we didn't see him pretty much from April to June, not very much. He would come in and out of house, be awful.

Were you fighting with him? What, what was going on like in the dynamics?

Yes. Well, wasn't fighting with him because you were telling me not to because even though you didn't kick, you kicked him out. You let Frank and I, you come to parent group. Thank God. No, it was more just sad. Like when he would come home, I would be just grateful he was at home and make it all about him like it was. I'm surprised the other two children are speaking to me.

But.

No, it was more like don't go. We weren't fighting with him because you would talk to us out of that, but he would pick start little fights. But we had sort of learned not to engage with those.

And then what happened that we finally got him to a treatment center in Georgia.

So he had been gone because remember he worked at the car wash and had come back into Iop like in beginning of June for like another two weeks and then pulled himself out. And so at that point he left. Like he went to take the trash out. We didn't see him again. Wow.

Were you scared of death?

Yes, because I knew right now, I mean, at this point it's escalating, it's getting worse and worse.

And you know, he's doing some.

And now I know we're into pills. Yeah. And somewhere in there he got hurt, beaten up in a drug deal because that's when his brother said he's fine, he's with Me, but we'd been at the hospital, so I knew it was bad. And somewhere in there, my car had gotten demoed when he was doing a drugs. Drug deal, too, because he called and said the car had broken down. But when I got there, the center console had been ripped out and the gears had been stripped so it wouldn't drive. And later I found out it was. Tried to rob some, not pay the dealer. And he had just reached in with one arm, ripped the console with the other arm, just, wow. Stripped the gears.

Wow.

So I knew it was bad. And I don't know what went on, except you had called us. We were going to do those pickup orders, but before we could do them, he called and said, I need help. I need to come home. And I said, you can't come home, but I'll get you help. And he said, okay, I'll be there today, and you get help home from work. And he was. Although that's the night that he went out to smoke a cigarette in the backyard and drank. And I thought he'd left again. And we stayed all night looking for him.

But when I hear the story and I think about it now, at 17, for him to just sort of come out with it in the car and then for you to call hospital, because at 17, you had to agree to go. He didn't really fight you. He just went. That tells me, number one, how bad it was. And then that he was desperate. He knew, because most people don't just drop their cards like that and do it because their parents want them to.

No, he was really far into it. And I do think he knew at least those three times that he asked for help. I think he knew. This is bad.

So how do you think? Well, I guess I'll say it this way. With what he was doing, you can't really tell as parents. And that's how I had gotten so far, without anyone knowing what it was or was happening. Can you talk a little about that? Because I think parents don't. They miss this.

Yeah, because I think most parents are like us, and they're looking to sniff it. You know, they're late for curfew, or you do the hug and you're like, smell anything? And that's like. I knew something was wrong. But Frank kept saying that to me, like, he never smells of alcohol or weed. So I just don't think there's a problem. So that would make me sort of dial down my suspicions for a day or two. Plus, he would be, you know, this one probably for a Year or so before it came to a head. But in the middle, he would be sweet or, you know, engaged. And I think maybe there's, maybe it's not that bad. But you miss it because pills don't smell. And at the beginning you can't. Like, they're not taking so many pills that he's falling asleep in front of me.

And they don't look intoxicated.

They don't look, in fact, they, especially on pain pills, they look for a little bit. They look good.

They look great. They're friendly. They can be doing really well in school. They can be employee of the month.

Right.

But have a pain pill problem.

Right. Okay. Right.

And so then you guys got into a treatment center in Atlanta.

Right.

And then the treatment center in Atlanta said, we think he should go to a recovery.

About two weeks I into it, they called and said, we just don't think he should come back to Greenville. Like, you need longer. And so that was another blow because I really did think, okay, this time.

I thought it's coming home fixed.

I thought 30 days would fix it.

It's like every time you're talking to a professional, no one is giving you any kind of good news. Everyone's saying this is bad.

Right. Okay. That's why, that's why no one wants my job here.

That's right.

That's all I do.

Bad cop, bad copy.

Yeah. So they had, they said, we really highly recommend this. And so they found a bunch of places, but they were for the most part in Texas or far away. A couple of them wanted like six months of pay up front. And with no guarantee, I was like, no. So I said, I really need him to stay within driving distance. And so then they helped us find, they helped us find Purple in Atlanta. So that's where he went for sequel.

Can you tell us a story about physically getting him from the treatment center to Purple? Because that's a pretty good story.

Yeah. This is the day we, we bad methed you though. So. Yeah, I'll be happy to.

That's what makes it funny.

So, yeah, we picked him up. He, you know, agreed to go just because he didn't have any option but halfway. And we had to go from deep in Atlanta all the way back out to Lake Lawrenceville. So it's like a.

Which is a long way with a.

Drug addict kid in your car. He's pissed, right? It's a long way. 30 to 40 minute drive. And so halfway in there, he says, I'm not going. And luckily you had taught me and I said, well, Frank, I guess at the next exit, just pull over. And he was like, what do you mean? I said, well, I guess you'll just be homeless in Atlanta. I said, you can be homeless here on near 85 or near Lawrenceville. What do you want?

Would you have done it?

I don't know.

I don't know.

I don't know. You're a big talker, so in hindsight I would say yeah.

Knowing what you know now, what I.

Know now, but I don't know. But I was. I think. I think I might have. I don't know, I would have driven back to Greenville. I might have like hovered in the one mile vicinity. But I do think I would have done it, cuz I knew you were to Cookie. You did everything. You were talking. I knew, I knew he was not coming home. Okay. So he was like, what do you mean you're gonna leave me here? I said, yes. I said, you're just. Our house is no longer an option. So he said, well, fine, I'll go. So we stopped at the subway, which I've never been in another one since.

Have the same town like you.

Yeah, well, we stopped at the subway near Purple to have lunch. And then that was pretty. It was not. But everybody was really on edge. And then we got in the car and I felt so bad for him. He had on a new shirt, you know, he likes to look good, but he had to put his insulin pump back in and he got some blood on the new shirt and he just completely snapped like, you don't love me. This is not fair. It was awful. And I'm crying. I think Frank might have cried crying and. But we went on to the Kroger because we were supposed to stop and get just a little bit of groceries before we took him.

So you're. I mean, this is like crisis meltdown. You're just trying to get to the Kroger.

I just trying to get him to Purple without. Yeah. And I knew I couldn't show up with no groceries, so. So we get out of the car and walking in and like he's sniffing and I'm sniffing, but we're. The car crying is over. And Frank said, I think that we all just need to remember that Amber said that we should not be emotional. And I remember looking at Frank and saying, bad word, Amber. And turned around and said, I never have liked her. And off we went into the Kroger, where we went ahead for the first 10 minutes and just threw random stuff in. Like, I think literally we put like tampona deodorants. And he didn't need either one of those things, but we got it together and we got it. And then we went to Purple, which was like five minutes down the road. Okay.

And then.

And then. And then once he got to Purple, like, they guys came out, introduced themselves. They said, staff said, come with us to Frank and I. The guy said, we'll unload his stuff. By the time we were out of the staff part of the meeting with money and stuff, his room was set up. He was empty of the car. We looked at his room, and they were like, you should go. And we did. And the minute I drove away, I was like, this is where he needs to be.

You felt. I felt sort of more at peace about it.

Yeah. And I wasn't stupid thinking, he'll only be here a month. I knew he'd be there six to nine months. Right.

What was the hardest thing you had to do during this whole time between February and this time when you got into work?

Wow. I don't know. There were a lot of hard times. One in particular, I remember when we took him to Ridgeview in Atlanta. For the first 30 days, we went straight from the hospitals. We didn't leave Greenville till like 5:30 or 6 because, remember, we had that whole snafu with getting. He couldn't go in the pump at the hospital, so we had to get a prescription. So we stayed at the Carolina center, waiting for that to come through there. So we didn't get there till like 8. And by the time we left, it was like 2 in the morning with all the paperwork and just everything. And it was raining like hell. Wouldn't have it. And they were doing major construction on the road. And we got maybe an hour down, and they called. Richie called and said, hey, we don't want to have this $15,000 piece of equipment here. You need to come and get it. And I was like, I cannot. I cannot drive anymore. So they kept it. But that was a long, hard drive. Plus, I found. Oh, my God, it's not here. It's at home. I love, you know those colored paper clips, like that one up there? My children have always bent them into hearts for me. And he. Even on his way to treatment, he had found a blue paperclip in the car, and he had left it on my seat, and it was a little blue.

Heart that hurts.

That hurt. Yeah.

And so was he. When you drove him from Greenville to Atlanta at that time, was he giving you a hard time or was he pretty?

Just like he was quiet and humble and apologetic. No, he was not difficult at all. And nobody ate. But I remember we stopped at a KFC right near the hospital because he needed to eat, and he just ate mashed potatoes. He said, that's all I deserve. Wow.

So there were moments like that, and then there were moments where he was pretty punky.

Oh, yeah.

There were other moments. There were lots of moments.

There was a moment when he was in Ridgeview where he had called and he got nasty asty with me on the phone, and then he threw the phone, and I was like, oh, yeah, I'm not coming to see you. And then the counselor picked up the phone, and I remember him saying, Mrs. Manning, I'll not be calling you for several days, and I'm terribly sorry for that. And when you can apologize for that, he'll be speaking to you again. And I said, that sounds great. He said, somehow I thought he would say that.

I can't even imagine knowing you as well as I know you now, that your kids would even try to intimidate you down like that. I don't know if you were always as tough as you are now, but I can't even imagine, like, if I were your kid, I would know. Like, that's not gonna work.

It was just his addict brain. I mean, he just was, like, determined to do what he wanted to do, and I was getting in the way, and I was the bad guy. Because Frank, you know, by the time we got to all this, of course Frank understood. But at the beginning, Frank was more like, he's just being a kid. He's just being a boy. You need to simmer down. Right? Yeah.

Because there's always the good cop, bad cop.

Right. Okay.

And so then how.

And in Frank's defense, it flipped when the next one went down the road. It went down. I was the. I was the naive one.

How. Okay, so that was bad enough.

Yeah, that was bad enough.

You survived that really well. You. I don't know if you just literally demonstrate yourself if you need dissociated or what you did, but dissociated, we're like a. So you literally just did exactly what you were told to do. And then I think that probably you used every ounce of anything that you had to get through that. And then how long later you got more bad news?

I went to Ridgeview in July, the day before your birthday of 09. And it was probably. Less than a year before I found things were stolen stuff out of my house from the other one.

So how did that come Out. You were just like, how did that. I don't even remember this.

I can't really remember how I. Oh. It was the night of the gala, and I was looking for my mom's diamond earrings to wear to the gala where I was working, not going to. And I couldn't find them. And in looking for them, I realized I couldn't find a lot of things. And so I remember calling him and saying, for some reason. I don't know why, just he had been sort of sketchy, but for some reason, I just called and said, do you have. Do you know where my things are?

Calling your other side, calling me.

The others calling. Right. And saying, do you know what these are? And he was like, no, of course not. But I just didn't believe him. And so.

Well, you're wiser now.

Yeah, I was wiser. So then he came clean. I went to the gala. It was a terrible night. Then he came clean and said, I've done that. We went to the pawn shops, and he went with me. And we got most. There's maybe. Maybe seven or eight things that time. I think we got them all back. I had to pay for them.

So you didn't have any idea that your older son had a problem until these diamond earrings are missing and you're really not that far out of, you know, this other situation.

He wasn't living with us. He was in college, and he would come over, like, he came over for dinner and stuff like that, but he wasn't living with us at the time. And I don't think it's a little fuzzy in this. Two years were a little fuzzy.

I don't think he was.

I don't think he was. And then. So he said, I'll. I won't do it again. And that's when he started to see you for individual and. But he did. I don't remember. That was, like, in February or March. And then by Thanksgiving is when you drew the short straw and had to call me when I was in Chicago because you.

This episode, you were angry.

I was livid.

You were, like, beyond angry.

And I was heartbroken because it was a lot of my mother's jewelry and she had just died.

And you're pretty sentimental about things anyways.

Very sentimental Things are important to you, right? And I do like diamonds. There's that. Yes. So I was furious that one of my children would steal from me. And they know. They all know how I am about things. He later said that he didn't take my pearls because he knew how much I love pearls. So I enlightened him. But I also like diamonds now.

So that felt personal.

It felt personal. I remember being. This is when I really got angry and stayed angry at the world for a long time. Okay.

And so tried to deal with that, but it just wasn't really getting anywhere.

No. Plus, like, you know, every now and then, like, there would be, like, people. And then he did end up moving back home. I can't remember the details on that, but it seemed like a normal thing. But every now and then, there would be, like, somebody banging on the door, saying, there he stole my something. And would tell me some story about, no, I hadn't. And of course, I thought he hadn't for a while, but then I thought he did. But I was checking my stuff. Everything was there. I had hidden all my jewelry. Most of the sterling was hidden, so I didn't think he was stealing from me anymore.

What I can remember about it is you had been through all this with your first son, and it was the long, hard, emotional, expensive road. And then you had a lot of your things were taken that you had to buy out of the pawn shop multiple times. So that was extensive. And then I remember something else had gotten going. This is when Frank. You were out of town.

Oh, yeah.

Frank had called me and told. I don't remember what it was, but told me something. And Frank said, you call? And I said, no, you called. We're arguing about it.

Right? Right.

Okay.

Yeah. Because I remember when I got. I was in a meeting that morning, and I got a message. Either. I guess it was a blinking light in the hotel room, and it was you saying, hey, this is Amber. When you get in a minute, call me. And I thought, she is not calling to see how I am. This is not good. Yeah. And he said the had stolen my stuff again. Had been going on a long time. And he was at the Carolina Center. And I remember saying, he better not be in my house when I get home. And you said, he won't be.

And I remember thinking, we're gonna have to send this kid to treatment. And I remember being scared to tell you because you were so mad. You told me. You're like, no, I'm not sending him. I'm not paying it. You ended up doing it, but you were mad.

I was livid. I was like an auntie feeling it again.

You're gonna send. You're gonna send a nasty text after this?

No, no.

Just remembering it.

Okay.

Because you were like, I'm not paying for him to go to treatment. Because you were just angry at all the. The money and the stealing and everything.

And when I came back in, when I flew back in and I talked to you during that last four or five days in the Carolina Center, I found out that I could get very little of it back. And all the sterling had been melted. I saw my mom's diamond earrings because they were very distinctive. But the person told me they had been there for months, so I couldn't. She wouldn't let me have them. And so a lot of what I tried to recover was not recoverables, which just fueled my anger.

So you couldn't get back the super sentimental, personal things. You had been sort of done wrong again. And then we're telling you, you'll have to send this kid to treatment. It's going to cost a lot more money. And you guys took him.

I took him.

You took him.

Frank did not go. And I remember.

Doesn't sound safe.

I.

Okay, dad.

Yeah. Okay. Wow. I don't remember why. Probably because Frank didn't want to be with me because I was so mad.

Frank was too scared.

Frank's afraid of me because I remember picking him up at the Carolina center and sitting in the lobby while waiting for you to bring him up and just being like. I don't think I spoke. I think I said, hi, Amber, but I don't think I said hi to him. I don't think I talked to him in the car on the way to Atlanta. And I tell this story all the time in family sessions. I'm like, I know that I slowed down, but I'm not sure that I parked because he didn't break his legs getting out of the car, but it was just, get out and good luck. Wow. And I was taking them to purple again, so they. I didn't have to go in and chitchat with them. They knew exactly. Like, they gave me a discount. And they were like, just drop them off. We got it. They knew.

Okay. So looking back on all this, what is it you taken from it that you. It's important for you that other parents know?

It is very important to me. And I tell parents this all the time. And it takes some three or four months to get some a year, some five years. But I say at the end of this, like, I am not glad for my children that they had to go through this. And I'm really not glad for me. I had to go through some of the horrible. But I'm very glad that I was. Had the opportunity, I think, to grow from it, to find Meaning. More meaning in my life. Obviously. It changed my life. I went back and became a counselor, but there's a list we keep in the group room. And it. It's. What will we know if we. If we. If we could never know that our child would never relapse, which is the facts. We'll never know that. And it's. It's all. It's wonderful words. It's. We are less judgmental. We're more grateful. We're more connected to ourself, more connected to the world. And ultimately, why we call it Hoover families, in my opinion, is if everybody does the work, your family. Our family is better. Like, we're more connected to each other. We have the most bizarre conversations. New wife and girlfriend always like, this family is amazing. Like, how do y' all do this?

Your whole family's been shaped by recovery.

Right? Right. Even Margaret's. You know, she never let me read any of her letters to get into college or med school. But I caught a glimpse of the med school thing. Just. She was showing me something, like, probably some dress I should buy for her, but she was minimizing it. But I caught like, four quick sentences, and it was. It was. She had addressed recovery in her journey and what she had learned in her med school. So. And she was the angriest of all, really, because it impacted. Was not as angry me with the jewelry.

You're pretty angry.

She was really angry because she was 12 when this started. And so, you know, middle school, the end of middle school, high school was really shaped by this. She had to go to the same high school they had gone to. She had to walk in that, you know, you're there, sister. Plus, she lost me for a long time. I wasn't a good. I mean, I was a good mom. Like, I fed her and took care of her, but I wasn't happy or engaged. She still talks about the yard and decorated for Thanksgiving or Halloween. And, you know, when all this would go on, she would be like, how much. How much more of our money is gonna. Like, they're taking everything. Because I would be like, we can't go to the beach for two weeks this summer because treatment. Right. So she was unforgiving. But she loves them both dearly, and they have a great secret Snapchat links to. I'm a privy to.

Do you have any piece of advice out there for families.

The minute you think there's something off at all with your child? I don't. You don't have to have proof. Find someone who understands adolescence and Definitely. Even if it's not addiction, I would get someone who understands that so they can help you assess for what it is or isn't. Because if I had, I mean, we took him to a counselor, but he wasn't an addiction counselor. He totally missed it.

But you knew something was wrong.

I knew something was terribly wrong.

If you could have found someone that believed you.

If I could have found you.

You found it.

Right.

Okay.

And some of that could say these behaviors are adding up to me to be something more than depression or anxiety, which is, you know, what? We were told he's just had a bad year.

When you took him to other counselors, like, early on, before any of this came out, did they spend any time with you? Did they listen to your story of saying, like, the school's calling, he's missing school, he's gone. Like any of that?

Initially, like in the intake call, yes, but not again. I was only brought in at the very end when he said, he's fine, he's good to go. And then this is when I knew I'd been had because he said, if you can just let this child, you know, get back into his full life and live, he'll be fine. I said, what do you mean, his full life? He said, well, you know, get back to his volunteer situations. I was like, he doesn't volunteer. He said, oh, he has a very full volunteer life. I said, He's 15. He doesn't have a car. Like, he's not going anywhere. No. What are you talking about? And he said, I think you just don't know your child.

So your 15 year old child has been volunteering and you didn't know it.

Right. Okay. Full volunteer life. Full volunteer life.

Okay.

Yeah.

Somebody fell for that.

Yes.

Wow.

Okay.

So how are. How are your boys doing now?

Great. They're good. They're good. They're good. Just got married seven months ago to a darling girl and dating another darling girl. And both are even. Oh, yeah. And both are working and happy. Okay. Yeah.

And so all the Mannings right now, knock on wood.

Happily ever after, right now. Happily ever after.

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