Is Letting An Addict (or Alcoholic) Live With You A Major Mistake?

When you care about someone who has an addiction, you have to make tons and tons and tons of very difficult decisions. Sometimes you have to make those decisions, the same ones over and over and over again, and none of them are clear. None of them have clear answers. None of them are easy. And all of them make you feel like you are sort of like between a rock and a hard place, kind of the damned if you do and damned if you don't. So kind of situation. But of all the decisions that you have to make, probably the most important decision and maybe the most difficult decision for you to make is whether or not to let someone who has an addiction to drugs, alcohol, or anything else for that matter live in your home. It's extremely important because it has a major impact on you, anyone else that lives in the house, and on the person who has an addiction. So because it's such an important decision, I really want to help you think through all the different sort of variables that come into play so that you can make a logical decision. Those of you who watch these videos, you guys know that I'm always talking about, you got to be strategic, you got to be smart. You cannot make decisions when you're in the situation based on emotions because those decisions don't stick. Because emotions don't stick. So let's. Let's think through this situation together. Let's look at all the different things that we need to consider. And hopefully by the end of this video, you'll have kind of a framework, a little bit of a formula to help you decide what's right for you and your situation, because everybody's situation is a little bit different. For example, it's different deciding if you're going to let an addicted brother or sister live with you versus an addicted son or daughter versus an addicted spouse or even friend. Each one of those situations is somewhat different. And that's why you need a little bit of a formula that you can kind of plug your details into to figure out what's the best thing for you to do right now. Now you may have to relook at this and make this decision again in a month, again in a year, again in two years. And that's okay. It's not a. I'm going to decide at once, and then that's the ruling, you know, gavel on the thing, and then never going to think about it again. It's something that you're going to have to make more than once, probably more than a few times. And so I want you to have the tools to do that now I'm going to. Just right out the gate here, I'm going to tell you. So I'm just givens, okay? Like, there's, there's no. Plug it into the formula here. Like these, these are facts. This is going to go down regardless of who the person is or what the situation is. And I don't want you to try to delude yourself about it or minimize it, because these are just truths. Okay? Number one, if you have someone with an active addiction in your home, it is going to cause problems in your home. It is going to bring chaos, some more chaos and problems than others. Depends on the person and the addiction. But there's no having someone in an active addiction live in your home and it just be smooth sailing. And if you're thinking that that could happen, you're in denial. Even if you decide, well, I got this apartment and it's like upstairs of the garage, I'll never see them, I don't care if you have it in your home. You're. You're gonna. You're gonna see some problems from it. And the reason is, is because if you're old enough to have an addiction and you're a human being, then people are going to have some expectations of you, even if you're a young person. We have expectations of each other because we're social creatures. And on some level, we expect other human beings living in the home to participate in certain ways. We even expect our young children to participate in certain ways when they live at the home. Right? Like you eat dinner with the family or you help clean up. Maybe, you know, you're little and you can't do very much, but there's still an expectation around that. The problem is, when you have someone with an addiction, they either depends on the level of addiction they either won't fulfill or live up to those obligations at all, or they. Or they will sometimes, but they won't do it consistently. And because of that, it's going to cause a lot of frustration and tension. So you're going to have to go into it realizing that it's not going to be smooth, it's not going to be easy, and it is going to cause some level of problems. Now, that doesn't necessarily mean you should never do it, but I just want you to be honest and realistic with yourself about it. Another thing that I want you to really come to terms with here is if you're dealing with someone who has an active addiction and they live in your home, whatever it is that they are addicted to, will be in your home every single, every week, almost every day, I would guess. I have people say, well, I told them whatever they do on their time, that's their business, but not in my house. And when you say that, I understand why you're saying it and the philosophy. And hey, I agree with you. It sounds great in theory, but it isn't going to work in reality because the person, if you have an active addiction to something, you need it often regularly, a lot, which means you're going to need it in your home. And so if you're trying to convince yourself that that's just what they do on their own time, their own business, when they're away, you're being dishonest with yourself. And when you do that, you're going to set yourself up for having. Now what are you going to do about it when you find it in your home or you find out it's going on in your home? Because now you've set this boundary, you're saying not in the house. And you're going to have to enforce the boundary and back the boundary up, which essentially there's really only one way to enforce that boundary, which is you can't live here. So I don't want you to say that boundary out loud because it is not reasonable. I mean, okay, like I get as reasonable. It is reasonable boundary. It's not rational boundary to have someone in activation in your home and think that, that whatever home. If the person's victim, pornography. Pornography is going to be in your home, okay, if it's nicotine, nicotine is going to be in your home. Like, there's just no, there's just no good way around it. Occasionally you'll find somebody who's like, okay, that's the rule. That's fine. Then I'll do it right outside my bedroom window or right here in the car in the driveway. But I don't think that's what you meant when you said not in my home. Now, some of you may be thinking, well, I have young children that live in my home, and the thing that my person's addicted to is a hardcore drug and it cannot be in the home because it puts the kids in danger. And I absolutely respect that. That's reasonable, I get it. But you need to understand, if you have that person living there, it's going to be there. So I get where you come from. It's not unreasonable to think I don't want it in my home. It's just unreasonable to think I'm going to let this person who's addicted to that be in my home. And it's not going to be there. It's just not going to work like that. Alcohol, nicotine, pills, whatever. The addiction is going to be in here. So you're going to have to come to terms with that. If you're going to let the person live there and they're actively engaging in that addiction. I know I'm going to get some fussing about that. It just is what it is. And to go along with that kind of fits in with that one. The other sort of hard truth that I really want you to digest here is making these rules in these home contracts and outlining your expectations not going to work either. A lot of times, especially with young people, when young people leave treatment centers, but even sometimes with adults, there'll be like a family session that happens, and the treatment center will want the family to come up with what, what are the boundaries? What are the expectations? They'll have you sit down, usually with like a counselor, as a mediator or something, and have you hash this out. And they want you to tell the person what the boundaries and expectations are. And I understand that because it sounds good in theory. And. And families like it. They're like, yeah, that's right. I should get to tell them what my boundaries and expectations are. So people are all about it. They. They're all in it and they come on board because what doesn't work, it doesn't work. And not only does it not work to create, I call them the home contracts. Like, to live in this house, you know, you, you can't use or drink or do whatever in this house. If I find that you're out, okay? To live in this house, you gotta go to meeting every day, you gotta have a sponsor, you gotta go to your Iop, you gotta take drug tests, whatever. It's not that those things are bad things. It's just that when you're dealing with an addiction, addiction does not care about breaking a rule, okay? Like, and when you set that rule, you've got to be absolutely prepared to back it up. Because most of the time, you're setting it as in, to live in this house, X, Y, and Z has to happen. And most of the time, when you say those things, say those things, you're. You're doing it under the guise of, like, I'm gonna say it, and they're gonna know I'm serious, and they go know I mean business. I'm gonna write on this formal contract, I'm gonna have them sign. I'm gonna have it notarized or whatever. Addiction will break any rule, every rule. It doesn't feel bad about it. And what you're gonna do when you do that, when you've got this big paper that you've created, this big fancy thing that you've raw, written out and typed up and you've gotten them to sign, usually what ends up happening is you back yourself into a corner. Because now let's say you do find something in the house and then you confront them with it, but you're not really prepared to throw them out over it. And then you have to sort of backtrack on what you said. And now you've made yourself look bad. So you end up putting all these rules in place that you then have to enforce. When a lot of times people that put these rules in place, they're not really ready to enforce them. Especially if. If the addicted person is your son or daughter. I call that the big talk. I'd rather you not have a rule about it and leave yourself room to make a game time decision than to put it down or even just verbalize it outwardly and then not be able to back it up. Because that's. That's the bad thing. That's the worst. So a thing that might help you feel somewhat better is you can have general expectations, but I would keep them general and I would say them or write them or whatever you're going to do in such a way that leaves you room to make what I call a game time decision. So an example of what that might look like. Like, it might look something like, listen, I'm not gonna let the chaos that comes with an addiction destroy this whole house. So I just need you to know that if you bring that chaos in the house, I'm going to deal with it. And that's it. You don't have to say what you're going to do. You don't have to say what exactly that chaos can look like, because you cannot possibly imagine what that chaos might look like because it can come in so many forms. You don't. You cannot even predict it, you know, and so you. It's. It's impossible to try to write a contract to cover every single one of those bases and continu. Contingency plans. What you're saying is, hey, I'm. I'm telling you now, I can change my mind about this. And, and you don't have to be specific because when you say it so specifically, they'll hold you to the contract, but will not hold themselves to the contract. I'm not saying that to be me. I'm just saying that because it's true. Like, if you say you have to pass a drug test every week to stay here and you know that they're using but they're passing their drug test, what are you going to do? Because you know they're using but they're passing a drug test and they're going to say no. You said if I passed a drug test, like you're just accusing me of using it. You have no evidence and you can't, you can't do that. And they'll hold you to that rule and you'll feel completely obligated to stick to it. And you will stick to it because it's what you wrote on the paper. But the addiction will override the other person's ability to stick to the rules if it's actively engaged. So there's no home contract that's going to work. If, if you're thinking about boundaries and expectations, I need you to come up with that in your own head. And I need you to make boundaries and expectations for yourself, not for them. Like, I will not live like this. Xyz. And if X, Y and Z happens, that's what I'm gonna do. And these are promises you're making to yourself about yourself, not to them about them. Right. Like, like for example, I will not allow someone to live in a house with me who is stealing from me. I will not let someone live in the house with me who's verbally abusing me or physically abusing me or putting my kids safety in jeopardy. Those are, those are boundaries that you, that you can make. And if you're going to come up with a contract, come with a contract for yourself and it, and understand that it's your side of the street. Leave their side of the street to them. Okay, so now that we have the big, those are the big three that I have for you today. As far as like, these are the givens. Like them or don't like them. It is what it is. You're gonna have to come to terms with it. If you want somebody with activity house, you're gonna have to accept it. Now here's the little formula or the kind of categories I guess I would call them that I want you to think about when you're making a decision. How does letting them live in your house impact you? Impact other people that are in the house, which could include your spouse, your children, a parent in law, whoever lives there. And how does it impact them? But mostly most of that emphasis, like 80% of that emphasis. I want you to think about how does it impact you and your family? Most of the time when people make this decision, they're making this decision solely based on what they think is right or wrong. For the person that has the addiction. Well, that's not your boundary to keep. That's not, it's. It's. It's just sort of in their territory. If you're looking out for them so much that you're taking care of their boundaries and their needs, but you're not taking care of yours or children that you have or other people in your house, then you're having bad boundaries. That's your boundary crossing, not their boundary crossing. So thinking about how's it going to impact me and the other people in the house, I see this particularly with. Well, I see it with spouses and with parents, but probably it may be a little bit harder with parents, although it's still very hard for spouses. Because if you. You have this, you know, you love this person and you care about them, and it's going to hurt your heart to have to be like, you can't live here. That. That is going to be very, very, very diffic. And I know that it goes against your grain, but if you are allowing a person with an active addiction to live in your house to the detriment of everyone else, you're not making the right decision. Okay? Now, anyone that lives in the house causes some difficulty. That's just because living with people, people have personalities, and we all get on each other's nerves and have our little quirks. So it's not that they can't cause any difficulty. They're going to cause difficulty. I already told you. That was rule number one. The question is, is how much and what's acceptable, not acceptable, and what's really in their territory of decisions to make and what's in your territory of decisions to make. I think when they're. When regardless of addiction or not, when someone's making decisions about their life and it really impacts them and their situation, their physical health, their financial health, those things, that's their territory. Whether you want them to make good decisions or bad decisions, that's about them. But when those decisions then impact your physical health and your finances and your mental health, then it's in your territory. And that's. That's where you got to really ask yourself these questions. Too often we focus on whether or not it's enabling the other person. And to be honest, that's just way too simple of a framework to look at it. Most people think or not. A lot of people think that if you let someone live in your house, you're enabling them, maybe, kind of. But kicking someone out on the street doesn't mean they're going to stop using. In fact, kicking someone out almost always, 95% of the time results in an escalation of their addiction. So if you're thinking I have to kick them out or they're never going to get sober, I don't know that I would agree with that thinking. And that's what I mean when I say, are you making this decision about them or you? So I'm okay with letting an active addiction person live in your house as long as it's not destroying you and the other people living in the house. Because I'm not of the mindset that if you let them live there that they're just never get sober. One thing that really brought that up for me recently was, I don't know if you guys know, but Matthew Perry, you know, Chandler from friends, he released his book, his big book this week or whatever, November 1, about his addiction recovery journey. And I'm still reading it. So I'll give you all the. The details on all that once I finish stirring it. But one of the things that it really is brought home to me is, you know, he's talking about having, you know, $100 million or whatever in the bank. He probably has eight 12 houses or whatever that didn't make him get sober or not make him get sober. And so we think if we can just. We think it's almost like we can starve this addiction out financially. If we don't give them money, if we don't give them a place to live, they're going to get their act together. Not necessarily. And if giving someone money, giving someone a place to live doesn't necessarily mean they won't get sober either, Think about all the super rich people that get sober, all the celebrities that get sober. They didn't do it because they didn't have the money to continue. They, they did it for some other reason. So letting them live there isn't necessarily hurting them or meaning that they can't get sober ever. So that's what I mean. It's complicated. And that's why I want you to focus mainly on what are the implications for you and for the other people in the house. Now, if you're married and this is your child, it's easy to want to neglect the other. The other Spouse's needs, wishes, or desires. Because you may be coming from a very fearful place and you don't want to hold the line. And you're just like, I've seen. I've seen a lot of parents destroy their marriage over their child's addiction. And it would be very, very easy to do so. I mean, it's hard as a parent to get on the same page and agree about small parenting things, right? Like, what's the punishment for a bad grade? That can be hard enough to line up on. What should we let our kids e or not eat? That can be hard as parents to line up on. So you could imagine the difficulty of trying to line up with another human being on how to deal with a son or daughter struggling with a severe addiction. And that's why it destroys so many families. Those of you that are watching, in just a minute, I am going to let someone. Somebody that's watching live come on and share with us. We're going to do it like we usually do it, which is if you want to come on here live, you will pick up a number from 1, 200, and then I will get my random number picker out, and we will take the person closest to the number that the random number picker picks. But I do want to remind you, as always, if you do choose to come on here, you are going to be live. This is on YouTube and Facebook, I think even on Twitter. So this is public. Your face is going to be on here. So be sure. Don't talk about anything you don't want to talk about. And I'm not going to press you to talk about anything you don't want to talk about. So if there's nobody that wants to do that, I completely understand that, too, because it takes. I mean, it's. It's. There's a lot that goes into making that kind of decision. So go ahead and start putting your numbers in the chat because there's a little delay, and I will pick that number very shortly. You will need a decent Internet connection and some light so we can. We can see your face, and that's it. Other than that, you can do it from a laptop, a tablet phone, whatever device you're watching on, you can do it from. All right, so I've kind of given you the categories to think through as far as how it's going to impact me, the other people in the house, and the person has the addiction and the other thing the other way. I would kind of break this down because I think it's different when you're making a decision. If the addictive person already lives in your house, and you're trying to make the decision about whether to let them continue to live there or tell them that they can't, versus if the person does not live in your house and you're thinking about letting them move into your house, that second one, the person does not live in your house currently, and you're trying to decide whether or not to let them move into your house, I'm going to make that one very much more easy for you. If they are an active addiction, it is a mistake to let someone that is not already living in your house move into your house. I'm sure there might be somebody's situation out there that you might convince me, maybe you should. But I can't even think of one off the top of my head right now. Everyone, that would be a good idea. Now, if someone is working a recovery program and they're doing good, and I mean, like, they're sober for like more than five minutes, okay. Or more than just okay, I was sober at a treatment center, but I'm just leaving the treatment center. I want to come live with you now. Like, they need to show that they can be sober and be like a functioning person in society. If they are doing that, they're doing good. Fine. I don't have a problem with that. But if you're taking someone who's actively using and you want to let them live with you, that that's probably going to be a mistake. I think last week there was someone on here in the live and they were asking a question in the chat, like their. Somebody, their. I can't remember who, their family member has decided that they want to go to treatment. They're currently, I think, homeless. And they've agreed, they've signed up, they found a program. But that program has a long waiting list and it's going to be two months before they can get in there. And I think the question was, should I let them come and live at my house until they get into treatment? And that would be a very bad idea because not only is the person active addiction, is it is for sure going to continue as they wait for those months. And not only that, but if someone knows they're going to treatment, usually it escalates because it's kind of like they're in that, well, I got to get all my system phase. So not only are they definitely going to continue that activation, but it's probably going to be worse than. Than it even was. And two months from now when you have them living in your house and they change their mind, they don't want to go, now you're stuck. So I would advise against doing that. If they're already living there and you're trying to decide whether or not to let them stay there, that's much more complicated because if we're already living there, even if you decide you're not good with it anymore, you're probably going to have to go through a pretty long process of getting them out, both emotionally setting the stage and, and letting that happen, but also legally because you can't. If someone's like legitimately lives in a house, you can't throw them out. It's just like having a resident like you have to do 30 day eviction notice, all this stuff and it can be a mess. Now not everyone will fight you on that. Some say I don't want you here anywhere. They'll leave, but, but other times they won't and they will fight you on it. And you may think, well, I'll just call the cops and get them out. If you call the cops, the cops going to come tell them to their face that you can't do that. And now you've really messed up because they maybe didn't know it before, but now they know it now. So be careful when you're thinking through how to do that. If they're already in your house and you already know they need to get gone, then I think you should probably, I think I talked about this and something recently, but you should probably come up with like a process for that and, and not make that decision at the last minute and not just throw all their stuff out, but kind of come up with a process of how to get from A to Z in a way that's reasonable because you're going to have to give them a little bit of time and you may even have to give them some hoops to jump through so that if they don't jump through them, it's not like you're throwing them out. It's like they chose not to jump through them. So it's kind of like let's say you have a young adult living at your house who's refusing to work, refusing to be financially responsible and you're just tired of it. You know, they, they don't even help out. You know, maybe they're just like weed at your house all day long or whatever and you're just done with it and you want them out maybe like 20, 30 or 26 or 19, whatever you're probably going to have to do that by some sort of like, okay, well, you're going to pay rent to be here. And then you're going to have to instead say you got to pay it today. You're going to say you're going to pay rent starting December or something like that, and then give them a chance to jump through that hoop. I definitely think that's a better way to go about it. I think it helps make them have to take some ownership of it rather than you just saying that's it, you're out, or rather than you just saying, like, you have to have a job to live here, because that's not easy to enforce either. So I would put those expectations on them, let them see if they can jump through those hoops. If they can, great. If they can't, then you. Then you can sort of get that process together. Also, if you're going to tell someone they can't live with you, are you going to be okay with letting the pieces fall wherever they may? Like, are you okay with if they don't have somewhere to go, or is that going to completely destroy you? If it's going to completely destroy you and you know you're not going to be okay with that, then you probably need to come up with some plan B in case they don't come with a plan B. Like if you say to the same kid, you know, the, the one that's in your house, that won't work and you've said you had to pay rent December and January and they haven't paid any rent and you're done and you're ready to be out. If you can say you got to go and I don't care what, and you're good with it, I'm good with it. But if you know you're not going to do it, then you need to have something else lined up to be able to make sure that you stick with your boundary. For example, I've had some parents do things like, we'll help you, you know, I'll help you pay your rent or something like this for like three months or something, or I'll find a shelter or here's some places, treatment centers you can go to, whatever it is that you can kind of deal with in your own heart, in your mind, then have it lined up. Because if you're thinking they're going to solve all those problems, occasionally people might, but most of the times they don't. And now you're. Again, you have this boundary and you're either Prepared to back it up or you're not prepared to back it up? All right, let's take. Sometimes the best way to learn something is just to listen to a real life case. So let's do that. I'm going to get my number picker out. I think I only see one number up here. I could be wrong. So if you don't have your number, now's the time to put it. Getting the number picker out. Here we go. All right, the number is 76. Lose found. It works. I see you have a number up here. It's 33. Does anyone else have a number up here as I don't see any other ones. All right, we'll give you a couple of seconds, but I think that's it. So I'm going to put the link up here. Lose that fat. It works. That's your profile name. You are the one. So I'm going to put the link up here and all you have to do is click it. And while we wait for you, I'll take a couple of questions and comments. Amber D. Says so if they are actively addicted to crystal meth, should I evict them? My children live with us. It is my spouse. I've never seen him do it in the house. A year ago I found a glass pipe in my trash. That's a super tough one. Normally I would say if whatever they're doing isn't wreaking crazy havoc in your house, then I would say let them figure it out. But having small children in the house and having that drug in the house, if, if you think or you know that that's going to put your kids in danger in any way, then you probably are going to have to do the right thing as far as safety is concerned for your children. And honestly I just don't think you're going to have somebody that's using crystal math that's going to be non problematic in the house forever. For long maybe. Possibly. But I don't, I don't really see it happening for that long because it's such a destabilizing drug. You know, the staying up, the getting psychosis, the getting paranoid, the having sketchy people over and around, the getting the drug. I just think there's so many safety risk. It would be hard for me to think that it, it wasn't causing some kind of problem. I guess it's possible. All right, I think we have our contestant. I don't know what to call. Let's see.

Oh, hi.

Hey Amanda, can you hear me? I can can you hear me again?

Yes. Yes, I can.

Welcome. Thank you for joining us.

Yes. I have been thrilled by you right now because I have been lost for quite some time.

Well, tell us a little about what's going on, and maybe we can talk through it together.

Oh, okay. So both me and my husband have been together for, like, 26 years, and alcohol has kind of been a part of our life for a while. Well, almost through the whole thing. We got a dui, right as we were finishing six, fixing our house, over, building our house for two years, and now we're selling it after three years. I have been sober now for six months. Has it been six months or more? I'm starting to lose count, which is a good sign that I'm. And I'm good and I'm done. Especially turning around and watching someone. Did you what it does to them.

Amanda, because you thought you needed to get sober because it was problematic, or did you get sober? Mostly because it's like, I need to get sober. So he'll get sober. Either way is fine. I'm just curious.

Oh, no. I had. I. I had the conviction in my heart. My girls are. Are grown. My oldest is married, and my youngest will probably be married soon. And the other one's looking at grandkids. And both of my kids are like, they're not staying there if y' all are drunk. So it's. It's for me as well, because I. Every time I've quit and it's only been short, I have felt fantastic. So it is, like 100 for me.

Okay. I love it. Yeah.

Yes. Because here's the other short story, if I can squeeze this in. He got a dui, so we both quit drinking for a while. It was great. It was, like, the best time. So it's like I had this glimmer of hope. I didn't have to quit drinking when he got the dui. But after four months, I. I had to. I was like, I love you so much, and this isn't right. You know, it's just alcohol, whatever. So I quit with him. We picked it back up, and like I said, once four months hit for me, it was like my heart broke. And I even told him, I said, you know, I quit for you and us. And now, I mean, he's there. There's no quitting whatsoever. I mean, there's. There's nothing. And. I'm kind of at my breaking point. It's just. It's. My heart is broken. He made promises after promises at the promises, because we put we were supposed to tell for sale in August and it didn't happen. And I. I couldn't even talk to him as a friend right now. I am working on me. So, you know, there's that, but it's really hard when the substance is around. I still love the drink, but I can't let it console me. So I guess that's where I'm at. I'm just kind of heartbroken and lost.

So he got the dui, and that's when he initially quit. And you didn't quit right away with him, but then you decided to join him, and then it was really good. Am I getting that right? Okay, yeah, yeah, I know he quit because he got the dui, but. But why did. Having the dui, Was it just like a wake up call and he's like this ridiculous. I. Stop. Or was it like his lawyer told him to quit? Or was it like he had to go to DUI classes and they told him he had to quit? Like, why did he quit? Related to the dui.

Oh, in order to drive, they put a breathalyzer in the car. The car wouldn't start without the breathalyzer.

Yeah, but that doesn't mean you have to quit drinking. That just means you have to quit drinking and driving. Okay, but he stopped drinking, like, at all?

Yeah, he 100 quit. We also live not too far from the probation office, and they said they could stop by at any time they wanted to. And they. I mean, they have six rules here in Florida when it comes to that. So it's. He was very paranoid. He went to jail.

He said never again was he not allowed to drink during that time period. Like legally.

Legally.

Okay.

Legally, he would have gone back to jail.

Okay.

30 days, like, minimum.

Is. Is that done now? Like, all that sort of, like, taken care of. And that's not sort of hanging over his head or anything anymore?

No, no, that's done. That's fine.

Did he go back to drinking when all of that went away, or did he go back to drinking before? Before that?

It was shortly after. Shortly after it all went away.

It's shortly after, like two days. Two weeks. Two months?

No, it. It was. It was our. It was our anniversary. So it was like. Well, it was before our anniversary when he picked beer back up. So it was like a month. About a month that I know of. Because he is going to start to hide alcohol. He's never really done, but now he is. But that's because I've been kind of a little harsh when I backed off.

And so during that time when he was not drinking at all, how did he feel about.

Was fantastic. I mean, he missed it, but he was very anxious, very angry a lot. And I know that was really. That was really hard for him. Just. They're just round up all the time. I know that he has some problems to face, and he's not willing to get help to face them.

So did he feel like. Because you talked about how much better you feel that you quit drinking, did he feel a lot better when he quit drinking or not so much?

Yes, he looked a lot better. And you know what they say, a man quit drinking soda and they lose £100. He looked great.

Did he felt better? Like, you knew it, you could tell it by talking to him, looking. But did he realize he felt better? Because that's important because, like, you and you were telling me about you, you were like, I just realized I feel so much better when I don't drink. And. And so for him to have that realization, even if he didn't stick, I just want to know, does he know he felt better when he wasn't drinking?

You know, now that you're saying all this, sorry for moving this, but now that you're saying that, I know that he felt better physically, but I think mentally, I don't think he did.

Okay, what makes you say that?

Just because he wouldn't. Probably because the anger and anxiety that he was feeling, but I was stuck in my voice just being happy, it being gone. So, you know, maybe I miss some things. But we were both clean for a year.

Okay, so he was. That was long enough so that. That should have passed that, like, initial, like, at first, you do feel worse for a while, but it was longer than that, so he should have passed that piece. Okay. And then he went back to drinking. When he went back, was he. And I know you said he was hiding it, but when you did talk about it, on whatever level, was it like, okay, yeah, I'm drinking, but I'm not going to drink like I did before? Or was it just like, I'm done probation, I can drink like I want to?

No, we both went to drinking.

Okay?

We both did. After. After that, we both went to drinking, and it was. It was me who turned around and, you know, back May 1, I just said, I'm. I'm done. You know, I. I can't. I can't live this way anymore. It's miserable. And maybe it is more miserable for me than it is for him.

How many times did you stop and start before you're like this time is obviously like, I'm done, I'm done. How many other times were there?

Golly, it's been on and off for years. When we quit smoking back in 2008, that's when it got bad for both of us because we both smoked cigarettes and we quit. And that's when the alcohol got really bad. And it's been off and on. As you see my loose. I went through like P90X and all that stuff. So every time I went on a weight loss journey, I quit the alcohol. So hundreds of times, but always with the, well, I can have 800 calories this weekend, so I will use that for my alcohol consumption. So I mean, that was okay. I don't think I ever. The only time I ever really, really quit was back when he got his dui. And so this is honestly the second time. It's been like a conviction that I need to quit. But the first time, well, once again now think about it is because.

He.

He equipped. So I quit, but this time I quit for me.

Okay, so when you had quit a few of your times, a lot of times it was about diet, like calories and stuff like that. So it's like I'm quit drinking, but kind of like I'm gonn eating ice cream too, or whatever, you know, like, yeah, it wasn't really about the alcohol, is about the calories. But then it was I'm gonna quit drinking for the purpose of quitting drinking. At first to support my husband and then this last time for you. The reason why I want you to understand that is because that's sort of the natural process that people go through. People quit for all different kinds of reasons. The thing that I want them to figure out somewhere in one and some of those quit times is that they, that their life functions better, that things are easier, that things are simple and that they feel better. And if you kind of figure that out enough times, eventually you do get to the point, like, why do I keep going back to this? And the other thing that you figure out along that way is when you first go back, it's usually like, I'm just going to do it moderately and it doesn't work moderately. So there's really two pieces. One is I feel better without it. And two is I really, I never keep it in the moderation lane. So you have stops and starts until you learned that. And he has had how many stops and starts?

He's just the dui. Other than that it's been in moderation or like, you know, this month, you know, a couple months we went without it just because, let's say it was here in Florida, freaking hot. So, you know, he was working outside six days a week. I mean, he was like, yeah, but it's like now that doesn't even matter. I mean, I've seen him just suffer. I'm like.

Okay, so. And you're saying now that he's gone back, there's no indication that he want. He's thought about. So I won't stop. Will ever stop. Like he's just saying its own.

Yeah, I'll control it. And I look at him funny like, we can't, but you can try.

Okay? Do you say that we can't, but you can try?

Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. I want you to not say that.

Okay.

You can think it all you want to, because I would think it's. But don't want you to say it. Okay. Because what I want you to say is, I want you to say, I think that's a good idea. What do you think is reasonable? And have him identify what he thinks is reasonable and let him try that. Let him legitimately try that. Just like I'm sure you tried that. Yeah, it's reasonable until he figures out that that doesn't work.

Well, one last note on that. There's been some pretty serious occasions that you know, you know, family get togethers. The most important times is right just recently his Christmas, his mom's birthday, and almost my daughter coming back in town from California kind of put a stop to that one. But, you know, it's like these big events happen and all of a sudden he's just drowning himself in like, baby, you know, just one day, just one day. And it seems like those are the worst.

And that's pretty typical because there's special event days and most people drink more on special event days and people don't even drink drink on special event days. So people that drink a lot drink extra a lot on special event days, you know, because it's a special event day and because usually, you know, there's some stress included in special days. You know, even if it's good stress, it's still more like tension, stress managing people and things, you know. So there's a lot of reasons why that typically happens. Now you can ask, you can request that he puts a boundary around how much he drinks on special occasions if you want to. But in a general sense, I think if you let him go through these trying to figure out how to moderate it, he'll go through that faster.

Okay.

Yeah. It is frustrating, I know, but they'll just go through faster. If you say try, but whatever, then he's going to do more of the hiding it, or he's just going to be doing it almost just spitefully. And so you want. It would be better if he would not hide it. It would be better if he would just bring it above board. Because if you use it above board, it makes it harder to be dishonest with yourself about how much you're drinking. Like, if he's buying, he's put in the fridge and there's 18 there, and then there's two there that it's just clear. But if he's sneaking it, it's just easier to be dishonest with yourself about it and everybody else. So I would let him try the moderation. Maybe it'll work. It usually doesn't. But letting people go through that, they'll figure that out faster. Yeah. Now, if he's doing something while he's drinking, that is unacceptable. That's a different story.

Yeah, it's more. More the lack thereof. Doing things that need to be taken care of. I put the house up for sale before we even really finish getting things done, because I told him, I said just, you know, you know, after. But the other thing that's hard is because I am still, you know, it's still a struggle for me today, every day. And right now I'm at home all the time. I did get a job now, so I won't be home all the time, but, you know, I. I'm home all the time. And it's sitting in the freezer right now, you know, and it's some of my favorite stuff. So it's. It's once again how I started it. It's most definitely heartbreaking, really. It's really hard.

And it's hard because both of you are kind of on a journey, and. And in most cases, those journeys don't line up perfectly. And so it's like one of you gets there before the other one does. And it's just hard. If you find that you can't keep your sobriety while he's drinking, then you may have to decide something to protect yourself, too. Those are where it kind of. It crosses into your lane, and that's for your boundaries to have to keep. That's understandable. So when I say let him go through the bargaining, I'm saying that based on what he needs.

Right.

What's going to get him through it. But. But I'm not saying that. That you should do that to the extent that it puts you in a bad place or. Or your kids or Grant or future grandbabies or whatever, you know. In a bad place.

Yeah.

Yeah. Do you think he realizes it's the problem at all?

I thought he did. But being, you know, someone who has been prone to addiction myself. When you are stuck, you lie to yourself so much that you just don't see it. I mean, I used to be a narcissist. Feel bad, too. Like, I mean, so bad. So thank goodness I broke that back in 2011. Yeah. But I mean, it and that. I mean. Yeah. So, I mean, I know once something has you. It takes a lot, Right? Takes a lot.

Right. And sometimes people can kind of know it and then unknow it. And that's the worst is, like, when they're doing good and they kind of get it, and then they go completely backwards. It's like it never happened. And it's just like, what? Like, last week, you totally understood this. You said this and this and this. And now you're, like, taking it all back. Yeah, but if he knew it once, he'll probably know it again.

Yeah.

Because once you know the truth, you can kind of push it back. But it's, like, back there, and it's talking to you.

Yep, yep. I know that myself. Until it kind of hits. Finally hits you in the face. Trust me. I'm apologizing to family members, my kids, because when they were still in high school, we. Not the best. So I'm learning a lot. I'm learning how and what I need to apologize for. So I still take a positive out of everything.

And I think just seeing how much you've changed should give you a little bit of hope that he'll change. And. And also just understanding that you didn't change all at once either. It wasn't overnight for you. You know, it is a process for everybody I've never seen. I mean, people don't just say, oh, I'm done with this, and then be done.

If.

If they do. It's probably not addiction. There's a lot. You just didn't know the 50 times I said that before, you know?

Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for. For your show. Yes, yes. And thank you, Amber, because this has been one thing that's helped me out a lot, a lot through this journey on my side, having to deal with myself, you know, and live with a loved one who I've loved dearly so much, with all my heart.

So, like you said, makes it easier or harder. Having been through it yourself. Does it make it easier or is it make it worse? It.

Oh, no, it. I am a lot more understanding, most definitely.

Okay.

But at the same. At the polar opposite, it's like, you know, I get it myself too.

Right. And I know exactly what you're doing, mister, Because I did that or I played those games. Right?

Yeah. Yeah. There's not too many games that you can. He could play with me or. But you know, because of that, though, sometimes there's buttons that keep. Does his best to push and I just have to be like, okay, so.

Maybe it makes it harder and easier. Makes it.

Well, it.

You feel for them, but you also thoroughly understand it in another way that makes it even more frustrating.

So that's exactly it.

Yeah.

It's a battle of knowing both sides and. But he.

It.

Well, I guess the one thing that makes it easier is to stay and. And see him through the best that I can. And that. That's what's easier is to deal with it because I do have some girlfriends and talks to. And they're just like, I can't do it. I'm like. Because you've never been through it. That's why you've never had to deal with it. You've never hurt hundreds of people and had to face yourself in the mirror every day being sober, going, I can't believe I did that to, you know, my daughter, my mom, you know. You know, I can't believe that, you know, we did that to our friends. It's just everything. It's. You gotta face all that.

Well, I think you. You kind of have a good understanding about how you're not yourself. I think that's what he's saying, like, that you're under like a spell. You really are. Like, you're not. You're not really in the driver's seat. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for joining us. I appreciate it. And I think probably a lot of people got a lot of just listening to you and I know a lot of people. People related to it, so thank you so much.

All right. Thank you.

All right, bye, everybody. I will see you guys next Thursday at 1.