Is Your Addicted Loved One's CONSTANT MANIPULATION, Making You Crazy?

Foreign to see from the outside looking in. When someone else is being manipulated and you're. When you're seeing it happen to someone else, it's like, how do they not see that? How's that even working on them? But it is not so easy to see when it's happening to you. I mean, there are some types of manipulation that are kind of really so obvious that you couldn't miss it, like when somebody's trying to force someone else to give them money or something like that. But there are these really, like, covert types of manipulation that if you don't really realize that they are manipulation tactics, you will probably fall for them. In fact, even though I have been working with people who have addictions for almost 20 years now, getting old people, I would still fall for the manipulation tactics 9 times out of 10 if I didn't have the family program that I have. Because when we see people who have substance abuse, we usually see their families, too. And if I didn't hear the whole story and get all the puzzle pieces, I'd be right in there believing everything. I would just be falling for it. And that's. Even though I've been doing this 20 years, even though I probably have 35 videos on YouTube about manipulation tactics, it's so, so easy to fall into. So don't think that you are immune, because you are not immun. For those of you new here, I'm Amber Hollingsworth, and this YouTube channel is all about helping you understand the science and psychology of addiction so you can get your life and your family back on track. And what we do here is we look at addiction from every angle. We try to help the family member understand the person who has the addictions perspective and the person who has an addiction. We try to help them understand the family perspective. And overall, we just want to give you real, concrete solutions so that you don't have to be held hostage by this thing anymore. All right, here we go. So these types of manipulation is really what I'm going to be talking to you about today. That there are these sort of different, I would call them maybe like, mask, these general, like, Personas that you see very commonly with people who have addiction. And some of these Personas are just a little bit harder to detect or realize that that's actually manipulation than the other ones. The first one is what I'm going to call the Mr. Angry or Mrs. Forceful Mask. And this person uses intimidation pretty regularly to get what they want. So what they do in general is they're just so easily angered. Or so high strung or so on the edge that everyone in the house can feel like they're walking on eggshells around person just because they don't want to upset this person. And what this type of manipulation does is it trains the people around them. Don't bring anything up, don't confront me, don't ask me any questions, and certainly don't try to talk to me about things I don't want to talk about. And so they're using this intimidating kind of essence about themselves. And you can feel this when people walk into the room that have this. And it's a way, it's a defense mechanism and it's a way of pushing people away. It's. It's kind of like a porcupine, if you will. It's sort of like their defense mechanism. So I'm going to call that the Mr. Angry Persona. Now I'm calling them Mr. This, Mr. That. But these obviously can be men or women. I'm just trying to give them some, some categories for you so you can recognize it when it happens. Now another really common one that you probably will run into if you have a loved one with a substance abuse problem is the sad Persona. And this one works the best on family members. And this one is the one I think the family members miss the most often because, sorry, my dog is barking the mower. The lawn guys always come on Thursday during my life. So the sad Persona pulls at your heartstrings. And this is a very, very effective technique for getting your family to sort of get off your back or leave you alone about something or sort of allow you to continue with some maybe behavior or pattern that you probably shouldn't be. And most families we want, we're trying to make sense of why this person is struggling so much. Why are they so different? Why do they keep using this substance? And so most people immediately go looking for, well, there has to be this big deep cause, this trauma, this bad thing or whatever. It's making this person do this. And I'm not saying that there's not that, okay? Like, as we all know, trauma and addiction go hand in hand. Mental health problems and addiction go hand in hand. However, the person with the addiction will very, very commonly use this, I call it hiding behind it, as a way to sort of get by with things. So, and for a lot of people, this is kind of like a last ditch effort. If the other tactics I'm using aren't helping, then I'll pull out the like poor, pitiful me tactic. And that is like, the ace card. That one works. I hear families talk about this all the time, but they don't realize it's manipulation. They'll say, oh, we just. We had this heartfelt conversation, and, you know, we were arguing at first, but then they just broke down and they just told me all this stuff, and I just felt like it was a breakthrough. And I mean, sometimes I guess that could be. But usually when I. I'll say, like, well, tell me about it. Like, what happened, what they say, and when they're telling that, it makes me pretty aware that it's manipulation, because it's all this sort of, I can't help it mentality. It's not like I feel really bad about what I'm doing. I really want to change. It's not, like, true vulnerability. It's. You have to leave me alone because I can't help it, and it's not my fault or, you know, it's just bigger than me and beyond my control. And so it is, like I said, it's the ace card way of getting your family to back up off of you. And this works hardcore. It doesn't just work on wives and moms. This works on dads and husbands better than it works on wives and moms, dads and husbands. They fall for this. They fall for this. Men fall for this. I know I'm generalizing here. I'm stereotyping, but in general, men fall for this harder than women fall for this. Because women, we wrote that book, so we can kind of spot it a little better. All right, the next Persona, manipulative Persona, is what I would call, like, the charmer now. The charmer. I kind of. It kind of. I know I'm old here, people, but it makes me think of, like, Eddie Haskell from Leave it to Beaver. Like, you can just feel them. They're just, like, so appropriate and so nice, and they say all the nice things and complimentary even, and seem super interested in you. They just charm you. They just sneak right by your senses. Like, you don't even realize it's happening to you. Now, this is probably the most common type that I see in my office. It's actually sort of like, they tease me. The other girls at the office, they tease me, and they say, oh, this is your kind of client. Because they know that I work really well with this sort of, like, type of person who has addiction, who's. Who's super charming. Like, they have this mask that they wear. Like, I got it together. I'm fine. And they sort of minimize what's going on, and they tell funny stories, and, you know, they got interesting things happening in their lives. And this is almost like just a distraction is what this is. This. This is a great way to sort of throw you off the scent, I guess you'd say. A lot of the people that we see in our office, they look great, you know, they dress nice, they drive nice cars. They got their act together in a lot of ways. And if you put that together with, like, this sort of charming Persona, it's easy to fall into and believe, you know? And then they'll say, you know, it's really not that bad. You know, my family, they're just making a big deal about it, you know, and they'll say all this stuff, and you'll want to believe it, because the picture you're looking at kind of matches up. And so you got to watch out for this one, because even though it looks friendly and it's kind of funner to be around, it doesn't mean that it's not manipulation. This is. I would call this, like, probably like a more advanced manipulation strategy. Now, another Persona. I don't know if you guys have seen this one. I don't see this one as often, but I think family members see this one more often than I see it in the office. I'm gonna call it, like, the confused Persona. This is, like, this person who just acts like they don't even know what happened. Like, what? They're just confused. You know, they just act like they're not that smart or they're ditzy or, like, I can't believe I had them. Well, how did that go down? And it's just, like, beyond them. Do you guys see this at home? The confused Persona? I bet you see this most regularly, like, when you find something somebody's not supposed to have or a piece of paraphernalia or something like that. Now, I know I'm picking on my people that have addiction problems. So let me be fair about this, and let me pick on the family members for just a minute, too, because like I said at the beginning, we like to look at addiction from all angles. Now, you family members, y' all did some manipulation, too. Y' all use these tactics, too. So everything I'm saying, as far as, like, what the person with the addiction does, you do it, too. Think about it. You've tried to scream and yell and threaten and force your way into getting them to stop. You've tried it. It didn't work. You've tried to cry and plead and Tell them how it's hurting your feelings and how it's destroying you. You and how it's destroying them, and that's killing you. That didn't work, right? You've tried all this. You've tried the charm. The charm is probably the better of the techniques. If I was going to say use one, I'd say use the charm. You've. You've tried. You may have even tried confused before. So both sides of this issue, the person that has the addiction and the person, the fan person's family, are trying to manipulate the other side because both sides are trying to control a situation to get the outcome that they want. Now, I'll say. I'll say this, I'm sorry, families, but even though you're. You probably do a lot of the same manipulation tactics, yours just aren't as effective. They. Your tactics. And you probably already know this. You're like, dang, am I know you? They just doesn't work on them as much because you're dealing with someone who's essentially under anesthesia. So you're trying all these, like, ways that probably would work to manipulate. To not manipulate, but to motivate or cause change in a regular situation, but will not cause change when you're dealing with someone who has an addiction. So those are just the really common mass that I see. Now. There are a lot of manipulation techniques, like specific ways that people try to get specific things out of you. And I will link up some videos for that at the end of this video. But this is more about Persona and general sort of way of being. Now, just because I'm saying these are sort of four different types of personalities. Any one person can show you these different pieces of themselves. They may have sort of a baseline or a general mask that they wear a lot that you. That's kind of how they normally interact. But when that mask doesn't work, you'll see the person. They'll shift into some of these other Personas to try to make it work. A lot of times, especially with young people, I'll see sort of like the charm come, and then the angry come, and then the sad come. So it's kind of like, let me try to work mom like this. Let me try to threaten this. You know, let me try all these different techniques to see what's going to work. And so they usually will start out kind of nice or nicer. And then when. When the niceness doesn't work, then you see some of the ugly side. And then if the ugly side doesn't work, Then you see the sad, pitiful side, because like I said before, for us, like the ace card in the deck. Now, if you are watching live, we've done this thing for the past couple of times and it's worked really well where I've invited one of you guys watching live to come on here with me and share some about your story. What I would love to hear today is I would love to hear from somebody who's maybe seeing some progress in some way. Whether it's you're working on your own addiction or you're. You're seeing some progress in some of these ways of interacting with your loved one and they're making progress. Because I feel like we need some. We need some good news. Sometimes my clients come in and they say, I've actually had a good week. I ain't got much to tell you. And I say, hey, counselors like good news, too. If we don't get some good news every now and then, we get down. That keeps us in the game. So if you would like to come on here, I do want you to know you will be live. So the way it works is if you've ever seen it when I had a guest on, they'll appear like the screen will kind of cut into and you'll be able to see that them and me kind of like a zoom meeting. And I'll just give you the link and you'll just click the link and you'll be on live. So be aware your face is going to be on here. This is on YouTube and on Facebook. So I just want you to know if you don't, if it'll ask you to put your name on there. And if you don't want to put your real name, you want to put some kind of different name, that's cool too, if you. But your face is going to be on there. So just, I just want you to be aware. I don't want you to say, oh my gosh, I can't believe that was public. If you want to be on, then the way I've been doing it is have you guess a number between 1 and 100? And then I have this like random number picker app right on my phone and would. And you just shake it. We'll just shake it together and we will pick a number so you guys can go ahead and put your numbers in. If there's anybody out there who does want to come on and share something. And in the meantime, I'm going to take a few questions and comments that we have here. In the chat foreign. Let's see here. We have a lot of people. Hey, Saska, Mrs. C. Let's see, we have a new name here. Nefer to move. How do y' all say that name? Look at that name. That something. Hounds. Pariah hounds. I can say the last one. It says, I would like to know if you can tell if you're interacting with the addiction or the real person. If you're, if you're dealing with someone who's addicted, you're usually dealing with the. They're an active addiction. You're usually dealing with the addiction on some level all the time. But you can kind of tell how, how much the addiction is in control at any given point. Because this isn't like any kind of clinical terminology here. This is just like I say this in the office all the time. But I'll say, oh, that person's in full addiction mode. I mean they're like pulling out all the stops. They're like doing all the things and you can see it sort of ramp up and down different times. You can see the volume turn up and down on at different times. So I would say that you're, you're almost always dealing with addiction on some level, but you're almost always dealing with the real person on some level too. It's just that if you look at the balance about how much or is the person and how much is the addiction. Because, because you're always dealing with both. One piece of advice I'll give you is when you know you're dealing with the addiction, don't argue with it. Don't bite the fish hooks. Don't play into it because that's what the addiction wants you to do. It wants you to get crazy. And you guys know I talk about this on other videos. It wants you to bite the hook. Do not do it. Realize that that isn't the real person, that that's the addiction and there's no sense in being sucked into it like that. Hey, Vicki from South Dakota. Hey, Stephen and Debbie. Let's see here. Gloria's here. Gloria says, hey Amber. My, ah, is that addicted husband or alcoholic is a porcupine for sure. And yes, you can feel the strong energy.

Yeah.

So he has. So your, your person has that like tough guy Persona where they, they're sort of intimidating and, and people walk on the eggshells around. They don't want to bring it up because it might upset them and then everybody's going to pay it and it's going to make the whole day not fun. For everyone. I totally get that. One good thing about that Persona is it's about intimidation. And if you hold your ground, like, if you're dealing with somebody like that most time, you need to hold your ground, not try to beat them, not try to argue with them, but you need to stand solid because you can't let that, like, intimidation factor work. And. And you can. You can do that sometimes with humor or just being, like, really direct and calling things out, but not in a mean way, but just saying, nah, dude, that's not gonna work with me. I might say something like that in session, but if you're dealing with someone with that kind of intimidating Persona, people usually like to be talked to back the way that they talk. So if you kind of look at what they're giving you, you want to sort of mirror it back. Not in a like, I'm giving you a taste of your own medicine. That's not what I mean. Just as in, if someone talks real directly, they appreciate it better if you talk back real directly kind of way. Let's see. We're getting some numbers up here. Deborah says, I'm making great progress. My boyfriend is also an addict, and he's confused about my quitting on a dime. So, Deborah, is what you're saying. Like, y' all both have struggled and you quit, but he's still using and he's confused. If you've struggled with addiction, it may look like on the outside you just quit on a dime. But my guess, it was probably a little more to it on the inside that there was a lot more that went into that, and a lot of decisions had to be made. Probably some trial and error and stuff. But we're glad you're here, and I'm super proud of you. Let's see here. Janine says, where does I don't know fit in? I don't know why I drink. I don't know why I yell. I don't know why I said all that awful stuff to you. I would probably say that if I had to put it in a Persona category, I would put it under the confused Persona category. And there may be a little truth in that. The person maybe doesn't fully understand why they do everything they do with. I don't know. It's. It's. You kind of have to make a judgment call, or at least this is what I do in session. If I ask somebody a question and it seems pretty obvious like they would know the answer to the question, and they say, I don't know sometimes, and I'm not recommending you do this every time, but you got. You got to read the room, people. Sometimes I'll say, well, is it really that you don't know, or is it more that you don't want to talk about it? Because it's okay if you don't want to talk about it. And sometimes if I'll put that offer on the table, sometimes people will say. They'll say, which one? I'm really not sure. And then we'll sort of explore and maybe I might even give them multiple choice or something. But if they don't want to talk about it, then I just take that because that's a boundary, and somebody's setting a boundary. They don't want to go into something, then you need to respect that. Families are the worst about, you know, not want to respect that. We want to talk, we want to problem solve, we want to throw it on the table. But if somebody tells you they are not in a place to talk about something, it's a bad idea to force it because nothing good comes after that moment. That's it. I know what you're thinking. It's like, well, we got to talk about at some point. It's okay to make a plan or a time to talk about that, but don't ever force it. Because what's going to happen next is you're going to get the spikes. You're going to get the intimidating Persona is what's going to come next. See here, I'm gonna take another question or two, and then we're gonna do. We're gonna pick a guest if we have some numbers. Mrs. C. Another question I have is what should I say when my husband claims everyone, including me, treats him like a child? I won't let him take my vehicle anymore due to a dui. How should I respond to him? It sounds like what you're saying, Mrs. C. Is that you. You've had to set a healthy boundary about not taking your vehicle because of a dui. And I would just very kind and empathetically say, you know, you know, why I had to do that. There's real logistical reasons for that. And then just move on because that just saying, treating me like a child is really just a way of. It's a fish hook. The person knows the drill. The person knows what's going on. And so don't engage with them like they were a child. Don't argue, don't pull. And just say. Just say, I'm hoping we can get back to a better place. And then that Won't have to be a thing anymore and then just move on. Don't keep going with the conversation because that, that is a hook for an argument. That's my guess. Let's see here. Do we have any numbers? I saw a number a while ago. I know it looks like, it looks like maybe the only. We only have one number and that number is Deborah. So I'm going to give you guys a couple more seconds because there's a little bit of delay and then if there's no more numbers, Deborah, you're the one. If there is more numbers, then we'll do our random number picker. Let's see here. Hey, Anthony, How often are the things that an addict says when they are angry, how they really feel? That's a good question. And I would answer that by saying about as often as the. As it is when any of us say the things when we're angry, there's probably a little truth in it, but it's probably pretty like mixed up and over exaggerated and stuff like that. So there's usually when we're mad, we say stuff that, that we probably do feel to some degree, but not to the extent that we're expressing it because we're mad and we're using it as a weapon when we're saying whatever we're saying when we're angry. So we all do that, not just people with addictions. Everybody does that. So another question I get that's kind of like that question Nick is how often or the question is, is do people tell the truth, their real truth, when they're like intoxicated, especially on alcohol. And the answer to that would be pretty similar. There may be some truth in what they're saying about how they feel, but it's going to be all gargled up and I wouldn't take it at face value anyways. Hey, beach girl. All right, Deborah. Deborah K. I believe we are going to let you be our guest. I am going to pop the little link right here in the comments and all you have to do is click it and then we'll get you on here. All right? It should be popping up there for you any second. And like I said, you just click it. All you're going to need is you can do phone, tablet, laptop, whatever you want. You just need a pretty decent Internet connection and enough light so that we can see you and you should be totally fine. All right, while we're waiting for Deborah to get on here, we can maybe see if there's one more question. Pie in the sky says, sitting at my desk, writing progress notes. I continue to send folks to your website as a backup during the week. Thank you. Well, thank you. Pine the sky, since you're saying you're writing process notes. I said progress before. Makes me think you must be. You must be talking about making clinical notes, as in, like, we work with people clinically, like counseling or recovery coaching or something. Something. So we appreciate you. Thank you. Thank you not only for just sending people my way, but for also being a soldier out there helping us fight this war on addiction. We appreciate you. All right, now, let's see. Here we go. Hello? Can you hear me okay?

Yeah, I can hear you Perfect.

All right. Thank you for joining us.

Let me. Give me one second.

Sure.

This is amazing. I'm talking to you.

It's amazing. I'm talking to you. Thank you for being brave. It takes a lot of courage to come on here, especially if it's not something you're used to. I do it so much. It's like nothing, but if you haven't done, it's kind of scary. Yeah. So tell us a little bit about your situation.

Yeah. So my name is Paula, and I right now staying with my boyfriend for that work situation. But I got my new place, and it's gonna be two hours away. And we have been, you know, breaking up and coming back several times for the city, and he's an alcoholic, and. And I work in this field. Not an addiction specifically, but helping. But when it's your own situation is so hard. And as much as I read, you know, watch your video with everything, it's just so hard. And it's just in the evenings, I know he. He goes out and drinks and. And then come back, and then I go to his daughter's bedroom and stay there. I watch something else and do my things. And then in the morning, it's amazing because he's okay, and. And we can talk and we can have fun, and we can. And we have, you know, short conversations about it, and. And I think they do pretty well with boundaries and all that, but it's just so hard because, like, he recognized I never had to have a discussion about his. That he. He. He doesn't have addiction or he doesn't have a problem. You know, I never had to. He knows he has a therapy. He did tms. We had an amazing trip to Europe for two. Almost two weeks.

We.

He didn't drink. I didn't have a discussion about. Oh, well, we are here. Just a little glass of wine. It doesn't. No no, it was, he was asking for non alcohol. It is now. I'm leaving. I didn't want to leave with him. He asked me, but I. I'm not prepared to move in with him. I don't think it's going to be good for me and I prefer to have my space and control that, well, you can come in if you are drunk. And I told the other, I told him the other day, it's going to be hard because you're going to have to get a hotel room. You're driving two hours away, you know, two hours and a half to see me, stay a few days with me. But if you're drunk, you're gonna have to get a hotel room. It's gonna get expensive to see, be ready, things like that, you know, like kind of setting the boundaries very short, clear, no discussion. And that's what is going to happen. But I feel like it has been really hard for me to move the conversation for this victim position that my daughter doesn't want to see me anymore. She's 17, I guess she, she saw him drunk few times and then she doesn't want to come here. And it's really hard for him. I know he got in the DUI and he talked to me about it in pieces, like little by little. And I don't know how to move away from that. From that. Like. Yeah, I know, but what other things we can be doing, you know?

So let's look, let's take a look first. And I like to sort of look at what's going well because I think the strengths are the best place to build on. And then we'll maybe look at where to go from here. Because I like what you're saying, Paula, which is he's not in denial. Like he knows there's a problem, he doesn't try to minimize it. Like he owns the fact that there's a problem. And I love the fact that you sort of decided what your healthy boundaries are. You've been very clear about them. So you're not being mean or unkind or saying, I don't have anything to do with you. You're just saying like this is just kind of what it is. Just kind of like very practical minded. So I feel like that's going well. But the thing that's not going well is even though he knows he has the problem, he doesn't seem to be moving into like an action stage of doing something about it. Why is that, do you think? Like, what does he say why that is?

I think part of his personality is that he knows a lot. He's very smart, brilliant. He's one of the most brilliant person I ever met. I know knows what to do it. He's in a deep depression as well. So he kind of knows what need to be done. What he should, he should be doing like calling lawyers, right, for the sedation he has or you know, cleaning around and, and, but, and he's retired, so he, he's young, but he's retired. But he has too much time in his hands. But with this deep depression, it's just hard. But he does things like he and I always celebrate him. He's really good at preparing food and meals and things like that. But no avoiding, but kind of like avoiding the. What he need to do for the addiction more. I don't know how to move really. I don't know how to move. The conversation to that action is hard.

I'm guessing that probably. Paula, one of your, one of the biggest roadblocks that you're facing is the fact that he lives alone. He's got all that time on his hands because he's retired, you said. Yeah, and he's got an apartment. It's like two hours away from you, which I do think is a healthy boundary for you, but probably not that great as far as like, for him as far as staying sober because there's so much time on your hand. No one's there. The coast is always clear is what I like to call it. The coast is clear trigger, you know, and that, and that makes it hard for like accountability reasons, loneliness reasons, being busy reasons. Now the depression thing that you're saying is also a big roadblock that you're identifying. And anybody that I've ever treated that's has problem with alcohol has pretty significant depression and anxiety. It's symptom of the alcohol. And so they have to, you have to get them sober for that to clear up. Now it may not fix everything because there's. Because usually there's some, you know, real things under there that need to be dealt with, but it'll probably make it 75 or 80%. And so when I talk to clients, I talk to them about that and I sometimes I'll just say, will you just give it a try? Can you give it the 30 days or something like that? Because what they'll find is that they do feel better. And I'm even hearing that in your story because you're saying we took this vacation together, this two week vacation and everything was great and he didn't drink a Drop. He wasn't trying to say glass of wine. He wasn't trying to say anything. Like he was full in it. And so you could probably see the difference in his mood then.

Yeah, yeah.

And not only is he mood, but it's vacation, which makes everybody happy and he's connecting to you. So it's kind of like if I take the alcohol out and I, I'm getting my needs met more effectively, see, it gets better. I mean, if he felt better inside of two weeks of being sober, he would feel massively better inside of 30 days.

Yeah, 30 days. Where, where he can do that. It's, it's just because, for example, that was my hope. So he stay. We came back from the trip and I needed to be in with my daughter for a few days. And then I came back here to stay with him for two weeks. The first, like two days he was kind of okay, but then I, I'm here with him 24 7. He has been drinking. You know, he, he managed. I don't control his, you know, he go to stores and now he get the puddle and he denies in the.

Beginning.

And the conversation goes, you know, I'm gonna go to Katie's bedroom tonight.

And that's like code word for I'm. I'm gonna be drinking.

Yeah. And he's one. And I'm like, because you're intoxicated. And then I go there and he start like, I'm okay, I'm okay. And then I keep it away. But. But the thing is, I'm here and, and he does it anyway.

Like the, the 30 day thing. I don't necessarily mean he has to go away to treatment for 30 days, although I'm not opposed to that at all. I just mean if, when he got sober, before he went on the trip, did he do that himself or did he go to treatment or how did he do that when, when, when he was sober? The two weeks when you guys went on your vacation?

Because we were on vacation, so we met. I was already in Europe of my solo trip. And then he joined me in a way to. That is where we came back together. And then those two weeks we were just, you know, traveling and hotels and things like that. And, and actually one in a, in a. At one point he said that he wanted to go and do the laundry by himself and go out. It's like two blocks away. And I said, are you going to be safe and you're going to be okay if you go by yourself? And because it's Barcelona, so there's A lot of drinks every. And I'm gonna be okay, but if you want to come with me and you feel better, come with me. And I said with you. And we were together, but that was the only time that I felt that it's, it's kind of like a. Why take the risk of being tempted and doing something, you know, that he's gonna regret and feel really bad about it? So there's two weeks where we were having fun and enjoying our, the company.

And was it decided before you went that he wasn't gonna drink, or did you say, hey, if you go on this, no drinking. Like, it was kind of like a boundary set. Okay.

Yeah. I, I, we spoke and because I had planned this trip myself for myself way before we start talking and he reach out. He reached out and then we start talk. But I knew he was drinking because I was out of the country and he was, we were doing FaceTime and I could see that he was intoxicated. I needed to hang up. And then the crazy, like 20 calls after that, and then, you know, like voicemail. But I could see that he was intoxicated and talked next day and the regret and all that. So when I took this step of join him in the trip, I was, I, I told them that if we go together, there's not going to be drinking. And I don't drink around him. And he agreed. So when we were there, he. But I thought, and that I really, I told him, like, I'm so proud of you. Like, you never asked me for even one second. He have a glass of wine, because I know wine is now his drink.

One thing I'm noticing about your situation, Paula, is that, well, two things, really. One is that you guys have a fairly solid relationship. You guys can have conversations about this without it being crazy, which is amazing. So you're doing a lot of things right. Like, that's really impressive. You guys let Paula know. Like, that's a big deal. So that's first and foremost. But the second thing that I'm hearing is that because he's not in denial and you have a good relationship, he's pretty responsive to the boundaries and requests that you set.

Yeah.

And I know this is not my typical advice, which is why I like to ask a lot of questions, like when I do consultations, people a lot about the situation in the person, because everybody is a little different. But I almost feel like you need to directly say, I'd like for you to stop drinking. I know you've kind of been going around it, but I feel like he kind of. He gets it and he was. He responds okay to that and he respects it. Not mean, but just say, I think it's time and just see what he says. I'm not saying you have to force it, but. But it feels like maybe he's teetering on it and maybe he's just waiting for a kind of like a tiny push or something because that seemed to work on the vacation. It works on the boundary about him being over.

And what I think I have noticed is that his personality, he's like a people pleaser too, and like me. So he's very good. I mean, if he recognizes someone that is the authority for him in his life, like me, his mom, you know, he may do two things so, you know, go around and avoided.

Mm, I lost you for a second. You're back. Yeah.

Or he can go around or he can really. He can really listen and, and kind of more from being scared, more than maybe understanding exactly what is going on, but more about being scared of losing that person. Right.

People pleasing personality. Right. And, and, and you're right. When you're dealing with someone, people pleasing, they don't. A lot of times they're not going to directly say no or argue or fight with you, but they may agree in the moment, but then sort of passively not do it or passively not come around or something like that. So, so I would say, you know, can we talk about that? Would you be open to this? And then if he's open to it, he could say, could we set a time? Could we set a day, a start time, and like, at least a goal to get to not saying it's like, because you only have to do it for this many days. But can we, can we have a goal in there and, and see if he'll see if he'll commit to that. That may work in your situation for other people that are listening, that that's not going to work with everyone. I'm saying that to Paula specifically because of the information she's giving me. And I feel like the timing is right, the personality is right. So if you've got a really like, argumentative person or you're dealing with like the intimidator type, that probably won't work to, to do it, like what I'm telling Paula. So there is sort of all these things that I tell you guys that are standard. Those are like the gold standards that these are the most likely to work across the board. But then there comes in this like, personality piece where you can Kind of like tweak it. And that's when you can sort of really hone in specifically on. On an individual situation and say what to do next, given all the dynamics. So I would. I would not push so hard. You pushed them off the cliff. I would, but I would push because you're kind of. You're gentle. You're almost maybe being too gentle, because even when you're saying, like, are you going to be okay when he's going down the street to do laundry, you could even say, are you going to drink?

Yeah.

Are you? Or you don't even have to ask the question. You guys want to say, don't ask question. You could say, I hope you don't drink, or, yeah, please don't stop and drink. You could say that or whatever. I. Yes, directly, but not mean.

Yeah, no, I'm too gentle. I mean, I. I have being more like direct inducing. They were, you know, drink and, you know, I don't want to have a sip or some things like that. But yeah, in general, my. My to go. It's. It's more gentle. Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah, I guess.

And he's very gentle, too. So both of you might be kind of avoidant. So somebody needs to push just a tad. Not hard, but enough to get like, a little bit of momentum going.

And. And I guess it's, you know, this is like a tango, right? Like a dance.

Like.

But I guess it had help to get to the place that we can really talk and not being defensive or, you know, like just oc. Using, you know, like more abusive words or. But yeah, to move to action, probably. Yeah, probably. I need to be more assertive and more direct and more like, you know.

Just a. Just a tiny little push might get your situation to shift a little bit and start to make some traction. And you can even say when you say it to him, if he's a people pleaser. You can say. You can tell me. No, you can tell me to back off, you're not ready, or whatever, and I'll listen to that. So you can kind of give them an out. But. But you are saying this is what I'd like to happen for our relationship to go to the next level. We're doing so great. I love being around you. I know you wanted me to move in. And here's if, if we could get to here, then I think we could go to the next level, and it would be wonderful. So it's just a gentle. That kind of more directable push.

Yeah. And one of the things that. Well, I Have been traveling and, and it was kind of like it was a work burnout, working in this field, having his situation. So I was like 24 7, helping others to get better. So I decided to quit my job in March, leave that relationship, go away. And now I'm in so much in a better place. And then so what I wanted, you know, now that I got my job and I have my new place and I'm going to move, I'm going to, you know, I'm going to start my, my routine and all that. I wanted to, you know, belong to your group and, and do like a more because I need the help. Like the videos helped a lot and I mean, I'm so lucky I'm talking with you right now. This is, this is really help. But it's a day to day, it's always a challenge. So once I, I set up, you know, everything and I'm going to enroll and you're, you know, counseling and I talk to him about it and I send your videos in your, you know, your website. This is, you know, what I'm, and this is what I want. And actually I asked him to pay for it, so he's fine with it. And, and I said I really need this support for me and he knows so I would do that too.

Okay. I, I love what you said about it. It's like a dance. It's like a tango. And that is spot on. And it's like if you ever dance with somebody who's like a good dance leader, they lead you and they don't even, and you don't even know they're leading you. That's what we want, you know, because I don't feel pushed, I don't feel forced, but they do feel led and that can feel comforting.

Yeah.

And so, yeah, I love that you're right on target. And I will point out one more thing that Paula said that I want everyone else to pick up on, which I thought was really, really important and really good, which was you took a break, you backed up from the job, you got some, you know, you, you, you figured out I've got to like let go a little bit to clear my head to get my thoughts together. And when you're dealing with this day in, day out, sometimes you, you have to take a break. It doesn't mean you have to sort of tell this person to see them again, but you have to get some distance. If that's self care, if that's just let me have a few days, if that's whatever because you get so in the middle of it. So in this tornado on this world, because you can't think. You know, you're watching 500Amber videos.

You're.

But you're. You're interacting in. And you do have to back up and then re. Strategize and then go back in if you know. And so I love that you did that. And that's great advice for everybody. One on here.

And. And for the same reason I'm not also living with him, so because I. I'm not ready yet. I don't think I'm as. It's not about being strong. It's just. I'm not ready. I'm not ready to share my life with him. And having these.

You shouldn't move in until this problem is resolved, because it's going to take whatever good relationship you have and throw that over the top. I call it the having the front row seat. And like you said, now at least you have, like, your safety zone. So for your own sanity, I think it probably is better to wait until this is. You know, we have some. We have some sober momentum.

Yeah.

Because y' all like. Y' all like each other right now. We want to keep it going that way.

Yeah.

Thank you so much for joining us. I think it's so brave of you to. To come up here and share your story and tell us about what's going on and. And also give us some good advice and wisdom. You got.

No, thank you so much, Amber.

All right, everybody, next up, I have created a little playlist specifically for you that is about manipulation. Now, I have, like, 35 videos in manipulation, but I have, like, found the five or six. I think it's five or six videos that you really have to watch to get the good global view of it. And I'm going to put that up here for you to watch next. So if you haven't seen those, that's the place to start. All right, everybody, I'll see you next time.