Mind-blowing New Trauma/Anxiety Treatment That Can Cure You In A Few Sessions!!!

Doctor Jackson, I gotta say, this whole accelerated resolution therapy, it sounds a little too good to be true. So I feel like you're gonna have to convince me, because I've heard that this whole art thing can actually help people get better, like in a few sessions, like in a month, from, like, traumas or anxieties that have bothered them for years and years and years. So tell us all about it. Convince us. Make us believers.

Well, I guess the way to address that is that I had it done myself. I've been in the field now for over 22 years. When I say in the field, the field of substance use disorders and dealing with people and trying to help them help themselves. But I was getting ready to have a surgery, and it was at the Mayo Clinic, and they said, oh, we do this integration of care. Would you like to do art therapy with one of our licensed clinical social workers? And I was like, art therapy? No. I can't even draw a straight line. So they said, no, this is called accelerated resolution therapy. And I was like, why not? You know, I'll try it. And being in the business as, you know, Amber, for 20 something years, there's all kinds of things that come along that, you know, you consider and say, ah, maybe I'll want to get certified or license in that. And then, nah, I don't want to. So it was my personal experience that led me to say, wow, this really is true. I've talked to psychiatrists, I've talked to other therapists and professionals in the. And the same reaction that you had. And I was the same way. This must be like some kind of snake oil.

Yeah.

But I will just give you a personal example, if that's okay. So we're therapists, but we're people, too. We have things going on in our lives that can cause us, you know, some anxiety or whatever. So here you are getting ready to go in heart surgery. I think it's reasonable to have some situational anxiety associated with that. And so when I get anxious, or when I used to get anxious, not that I don't anymore, it would manifest itself in my chest. So we were doing this accelerated resolution therapy. The therapist was facilitating it with me, and I found it very calming. All of a sudden, I was very, very calm. And your mind does all the work. It's not the therapist processing what you're seeing. You know, the mind is like a computer records everything, and sometimes there's a lot of scene matching. And so here I am trying to do accelerated resolution therapy to calm me down prior to heart Surgery. And my mind went to when I was 12 years old, standing in front of the closet, protecting my sisters because my mother and father were downstairs. They're both alcoholics fighting. And that's where my anxiety began. And so when I expressed that to her, she said, okay, let's go to that. So we went to that scene and by the time we got through processing that scene, not that the knowledge didn't go away, but the feelings of anxiety in my chest went away.

That's amazing.

So then we went on, she said, hey, you want to do something on the heart surgery? And you know, we went through it and I how do you feel? Do you feel any sensations of anxiety in your body? And I was like, no, I don't. So it's, it's an evidence based therapy. So it's not some kind of hocus pocus.

It's real.

Yeah, I've been. So as soon as I got back from that experience, my partner Diane and I, diamond Queen, I said, die. We have got to get certified in this therapy. She's looking at me like I had two heads. I'm like, no, I, I'm telling you, this works. And so she went first and got certified, and then I went down and got certified and we did the practicum. But since then we have seen patients, clients with trauma, different kinds of trauma. You know, I think when people talk about trauma, they think about being in combat, they think about a sexual assault, you know, being in a horrific car accident. But trauma can be in a whole, come in a whole garden variety of things. It could be the way you were raised as a child, you could have been bullied, you could have phobias.

Had.

A gal that, you know, was 19 years old, had been trafficked and, and assaulted and kidnapped and hadn't slept in two years. And we were able to process that scene. She was with her mind. And the next thing you know, she called me up like three or four days later and go, brian, I'm sleep like a baby.

Wow, that's so life changing. I mean, that's exciting to think about.

Yeah, and there's a TED Talk on it too. It's called TedX. If you put in accelerated resolution therapy. And Lonnie Rosenweig, that started this back in 2008, you know, she worked with a gal, a male person, that male lady that had been mauled by dogs and just, was just totally like a recluse, couldn't leave her house. And soon after one session, she was able to go back to work. So again, it's just I think, a blessing if you have the willingness to try it. What we found out is it usually doesn't make anything worse than the memory.

Probably like the least scary trauma therapy that I've heard of.

Well, it's. Yeah, and I agree with you because you don't have to relive the trauma. So you can come in with, I can say, hey, Amber, what do you want to work on today? And you tell me what it is to the extent that you want to. And then we go through the scene, the beginning, the middle, and the end. And obviously when you first do, can be disturbing to see that. But we keep the rapid eye movements going, even though you might get emotional about it or whatever. But you don't have to share the information with the therapist and the therapist doesn't have to process it with you. We just look for the somatic effect that this trauma is having on you. So when I say somatic effect, where is it manifesting in your body?

Right.

I've seen trauma manifest in people's bodies from, I don't know, stiff neck to a headache to a feeling in their chest, tightness in their thighs, tightness in their calves. And so then the rapid bilateral eye movements. We put the scene aside and we work on those to alleviate those. So the end game is to try and replace those negative physical reactions to something that's very emotional to where now you can actually get to a point. You know, a successful treatment is considered successful when the client has processed a scene and no longer identifies the distress. You know, that's. That's associated with it.

So it's like what you're basically. I think what you're saying is what you're trying to do is you can't erase someone's memory, obviously.

Right.

But what you can do is you can disconnect the emotional charge from the memory. Right. So that when the person that memory may pop up again, but they won't feel all of that overwhelming physical and emotional charge sensations that normally come with it. Is that right?

Right. And the patient has. The client or client has the opportunity to become the director of the scene and rewrite the scene. And so we use a little technique where you have almost like a remote control channel changer. And so if you're looking at the old scene, you can switch back to the better scene that you've created and, you know, get some relief, you know, from that.

That's a little bit like. Is that a little bit like nlp, like the neuro linguistic program? Yeah. Is it a little like that. Okay.

Yeah, kind of, sort of. And so, you know, there's the vagus nerve in the brain, and that is where you get this calming effect. So the vagus nerve is calming. So you're almost in this meditative state while you're doing it. Not hypnosis. I mean, you're completely, you know, alive, awake, and well while you're doing this. And so those are the two things that I think the. The rapid bilateral eye movements calm that part of the brain so that you're able to look at this scene, you know, hopefully from beginning to end. And then once you look at that scene, is it manifesting anywhere in your body? And if it is manifesting anywhere in your body, then we do the rapid eye movements and work on that sensation, putting the scene aside. So once that stops or it moves a lot of times, like, sometimes it can move from your chest to your thighs, and that's a good sign. That means that it's working because we want to try. And, you know, trauma. I mean, we talk about trauma all the time, Amber, you know, and sometimes when you think about the trauma, it's like sticking your hand back in that open wound.

Yeah, yeah.

But this therapy gets you to. And talk therapy can help scar it up some. But the amazing thing about this therapy, as I see people have huge relief after one session.

I mean, it's so fascinating. And when I even think about what that does, when you combine that with. With, like, addiction recovery, it. Like, now we have a formula. Now we have a system that's going to work. And it's just amazing. When I was a. When I was a baby counselor, and I was doing my supervision, most of my supervision, I did it with this guy. And for those of you don't know, when you're. When you become a counselor, you. Even after you graduate, you have to for, like, two years, talk to another person in the field and, like, talk about your cases. It's like therapy for your therapy. It's not really about your personal stuff, but make sure you keep your head on straight. Anyways, my supervisor was a trauma specialist. And you know the saying, like, he wrote the book. Like, he literally wrote the book. He was a vet. He was. It had a terrible thing happened. He was helicopter pilot, and there was a crash, and. And he was actually paralyzed from the waist down. And so he. After that, he had gotten, you know, studied trauma, and he wrote trauma therapy. Lots and lots and lots of stuff on it. And he. The method they used back then was exposure therapy. He used this thing called Tir which involved telling the story over and over and over and over again until you could tell it and not fall apart. And. And that sometimes would be hours and hours and hours and hours of like, reliving it. Paint. I mean, it's not painful. I mean, just nasty, ugly tears. Like, I never he. You know, I knew about it because that was his expertise. But I never even. I'm like, oh, I'm not getting in that. That sounds scary. So to me, just how far we've come with these techniques and abilities and therapies, it's amazing. It's fascinating, right?

And you talk about substance use disorders, which you and I, you know, spend most of our waking hours doing, right. There's always been talk about trauma. And, you know, people will come in and say, no, I've never had any trauma in my life. I've never been in combat. I've never been in a car accident. I've never been attacked or sexually abused. But the dual diagnosis for the alcoholic and the addict, you know, we talk about the drinking and the drugging or the substance use as being a symptom of something else. And probably 90% of the people that I've dealt with, you probably see the same thing, have some sort form of anxiety and. Or depression. You know, what came first, the tricking of the egg. So if you can do art therapy and tap down some of that anxiety, figure out where it came from, be able to identify your mind, be able to identify where it is or help with depression, then maybe the compulsion to drink.

Right.

These drugs, right. Can be reduced. Because we always talk about triggers. Like, what's your triggers? Well, I got really, really anxious about, you know, work or I get, you know, my wife threatened to leave me, or I had this financial, you know, crisis going on in my life. And so the answer is, I'll go drink.

Right?

Because the anxiety is just so overwhelming that, you know, the impulse go to way.

It's the only way I know how to get it back under control sometimes.

Yeah. And so that's the impulse side of the brain where you really, once that kicks in, you know, and your brain turns red because, you know, I mean, we have come so far in understanding substance use disorders and the illness. I mean, we can now peek inside the brain with an MRI and see. You know, we talk about people, places and things. And that overexposure that the adult, rational side of the brain doesn't really even weigh in. Even though you don't want to drink, the impulse side just lights up the whole brain and, you know, at that point, it's really almost next to impossible to not pick up whatever your drug of choice is.

Definitely. So I'm going to need you to explain to us a little bit, Dr. Jackson, about how this actually works. Like you, while ago, you used some big words like bilateral and eye movements, and that sounds complicated. So give us the basics of it just so we can understand what we're getting into, what we're talking about here.

Okay. Yeah. So I have to be careful not to give the explicit technique as to how to do it, because we were schooled that we don't want people just deciding, okay, well, I'm going to do this, but so if you come in to see me, we sit very closely in a chair. There's a specific amount of. Of hand movements that I do. And. And your eyes follow my hand. Okay. And so when I say bilateral, we have two eyes. Right. And we're going from left to right. And it's a fixed amount of rapid eye movements. And that's. The number is 40 with EMDR, it varies from place to place. And there's more reliving, I guess, if you will, the trauma. The other question you asked me, that I. Where I was using big words.

Yeah, yeah.

I'm complimented that I'm using big words.

You're using big words, Dr. Jackson.

Yeah, but so what that does is it starts to relax you. And again, the mind is the computer and kind of ask you to go back to what you want to work on, whatever that scene is. And we go through that, and what we're trying to do is get to a place where it's not manifesting in your body as much as it would be. After the first pass. After the first pass, you may have all kinds of sensations in your body. And so now we use the rapid eye movement again, focusing on the sensation that's in your body. And once we can alleviate that, then we can go back and look at the scene for a second time. And the whole idea is that we're getting more and more desensitized in terms of how our body reacts to looking at that scene for the second time. Then we try and rewrite the scene where again, we let the patient kind of drive the train where. Okay, now, Amber, you know, think of this as a movie. And you get to write the movie. You get to write the beginning, the middle, and the end. And then if there's things that still can't be erased, you know that there's images that pop up, we then erase those by focusing on that. And again, the bilateral movements and a few things that you need to do in your brain to make those things that are standing out go away. I mean, it's interesting. People will. I say, well, how many bad images or how many disturbing images are still left? And some people may say, well, there's five. And I'll say, okay, well, let's work on the first one. And once we cover that up and erase it, I'll say, okay, do you want to move on to number two? They'll be like, I don't, I, I, I can't even remember what 2, 3, 4, and 5 were. Or, you know, I can remember what 2 is. So typically, you never get through the whole 5. And again, that goes back to the scene matching that once you desensitize the one that was the most critical or acute, that there's usually some relief on the other images that you originally thought you needed to address.

What do you mean when you're saying erasing? What is that? What do you mean when you're saying that?

Okay, so if you can imagine me moving my hand and you erasing that image. Oh, wow, I'm moving my hand.

Yeah.

This way, you're going that way. You're literally not going that way. But in your mind, you are erasing the image.

Right.

And then we'll paint over it, and it'll be interesting to see what color paint you use. And then we can then if it's still fuzzy, if it's still a little bit there, we can wallpaper over it, graffiti over it. But usually by the time you paint it, it's typically gone. So it's amazing what the mind, you know, can do.

It's just like reprogramming almost. It's like getting to the code or something.

Yeah. You know, it just reconsolidates the disturbing memories. Yeah. Replacing those disturbing images with, with positive ones. Not that you can be real positive about some of this stuff, but when I say replace it with positive ones is to be able to look at that scene and say, okay, that did happen. It's there, but my body is not reacting to it the way it used to. And so there's that new freedom that comes along with that. And typically, after the session, like, for six or seven hours, you know, you could be emotional, you could be quiet, you could be happy. You could be. Because the brain is still working on that. And within a day or two, I haven't anybody call me up and say that they were in more distress than when they first did it. So.

How does it compare to, like, cbt, cognitive behavioral therapy, or some of those other therapies that are pretty popular out there that a lot of people use?

Well, if you think about cognitive behavioral therapy, and if we were talking about a specific trauma, again, like the exposure therapy that you were talking about with the gentleman you work with, you're reliving the trauma, talking about the trauma. It's almost like you're reinforcing that trauma. And people counselors can make suggestions like, oh, maybe you should frame it this way. Maybe you should table it that way, you know, and there was a chart that came out and it said, cognitive behavioral therapy. How many sessions? You know, could be 10 years, you know, you know, EMDR could be, you know, five, six months, you know, 10 to 20 sessions, whereas art therapy, really, the max they put on is one to seven sessions. But the amount of relief that I've seen people get, the amount of relief that I got in one session, I mean, just greatly reduced it. Traumatic dramatically. And so typically, people will come back in and not necessarily want to go back over the one we worked on, but they might have another one, and it might not be as traumatic and be like, hey, you know, I got all this stress at work, and it's creating anxiety for me. So. But that's traumatic for them because it's causing anxiety. So trauma, again, comes in many shapes, sizes and forms.

So it doesn't have to be like what we classically typically think of as. As trauma. It doesn't have to be huge. You know, it can just be something. So tell us. Well, let me let you tell us. What. What does it work for and what does it not work for?

Well, they're finding out that there's more and more things that it works for. So phobias, like fear of spiders or a fear of whatever. There was one gal that had a fear of. Of. Of sewers because of a movie that she watched called if or something like that, where there was a clown that came.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, but more specifically, so trauma, be it exposure to combat, physical assault, beatings, ocd, depression, anxiety, substance use disorders. And what was the other one? Oh, they're finding out that it's helping with dyslexia. So.

Wow, that's like.

So, you know, your letters are revert. I mean, my goodness, if you could reverse your dyslexia. And so there's more and more studies going on about that. So it sounds like a real laundry list of stuff saying, wait a minute, I thought this therapy was just for trauma, but if you think about all those things, the phobias caused trauma in your body, you know, in terms of the way you react, obviously, substance use disorders, maybe the substance use disorder was triggered by some sort of trauma that happened in your life. You know, we get a lot of people that are adult children of alcoholics that it's a double edged sword. They don't want to talk bad about their parents, but then they start taking a real look about what their childhood was like not blaming their parents, but the effect that it had on them as children and how they grew up and how they make decisions for themselves with kind of the governor on of how the decisions were made for them as children.

Right, yeah.

So, yeah, it's pretty amazing.

Sounds like it's, it's very different. It's a very different experience than like talk therapy.

Yes, absolutely. Because again, questions like what color did you paint over the, the negative image? You don't have to tell me what.

Color, you just have to think of the answer.

Right? Yeah. So it puts what I like about it. It puts the patient in a place of control. In terms of the therapy. There are things that, hey, you know, I saw, you know, my father beating my mother, you know, that came up, I had completely forgotten about that. Or they might see that and I'll say, do you want to share about what you, what you saw? And they might say, no. So it's very non threatening, um, you know, feeling like you're going in and some counselor is going to, you know, solve this problem for you. And people are skeptical about it. But to the person, you know, certainly not me, I haven't had anybody say, oh my God, this was really a bad experience.

Right. Even if you're skeptical, we're talking about a few sessions. So even if you're skeptical, it's not gonna hurt anything. Try it. Yeah.

Yeah. I had a doctor who's a very prominent pain management doctor here in town, and she said, would you come, you know, do it with me? And her memory was of being three years old and taken to the funeral of her brother who had died with her parents not thinking, you know, they were thinking, oh, she's too young. You know, she's only three years old. But that had haunted her.

Oh yeah.

For 50 or 60 years. And it was very difficult for her to look at it. There was a lot of emotion that went along with it, but we were able to get through it. And then she could see herself as an adult coming to counsel and comfort that child, not by my direction, but her mind figuring Out a way to lessen the impact of trauma on herself. So that's just beautiful.

You know, that's just like. I got like chill bumps thinking about it.

Well, and if you think about it too, I mean, you know, people have insurance, people, you know, have to self pay. So if you're doing cognitive behavioral therapy and you're paying out of pocket and you're going to a therapist for years, that's a lot of money.

It is.

But if you think about a therapy that in one to seven sessions can really calm things down in your mind and in your body and enable you to function at a much higher level.

Wow.

You know?

Yeah. And for a lot of people who are trying to conquer an addiction, it could take, it could, in my mind, it makes it possible to do the, do the other stuff because so many times if you've got this open sore, you can't focus, think, concentrate, use your willpower strategically. You just can't do all the things you need to do to conquer the addiction when you've got this open wound here. And so addressing that in my mind would make it a lot more feasible for some people to get.

Yeah. So let me give you an example. You know, taking somebody through, okay, give me your basic day, an active alcoholic or addict. Give me your basic day, go through a basic script. And so we go through that and then we talk about cravings and so the manifestations of the cravings in their body. Let's work on that. So if you can tap down cravings, if you can tap down anxiety or you can tap down whatever the trigger was and where it's coming from or figure out where it's coming from. And I don't say me, figure out their mind, figure out. It's a great add on tool for treating people with substance use disorders.

Right.

You know, so yeah, I'm sold on it.

I can tell you. You're selling me on it.

You're making me a believer on many, many levels. It's. And, and at one point, I think there were only a thousand therapists in the United States between 2008 and last year. And now it's, it's basically taking off again. It's evidence based. So it's, it's tried and true. Just like a lot of other therapies are evidence based and people are just hearing these stories. And again, like you said, you were skeptical when you heard it. I was skeptical when I heard it. I was talking to a doctor at Mayo where they use it on or they implement it with people that are in palliative care. And they found that it also helps with pain. Like, you know who to thunk it. And she was just totally like, no, don't believe it. But then she saw it, she saw the results, and she got converted.

She's a believer, right?

She was absolutely believer. Absolutely a believer. But, you know, the goal is obviously as therapists, as for what we do is to try and help people help themselves. And the more tools that we have in our toolbox that we talk about all the time, not only for the addict, but for, you know, the person that's facilitating therapy that we can explore, the better.

Absolutely. Yeah.

You know, science and medicine just continue to come up with things that you go, wow, that's amazing.

Yeah, I, I first heard about this. It's our. We have to renew our licenses and stuff every two years and, and ours is in August. So I've been trying to get all my CES done, you know, here at last minute, of course. And so I signed up for a bunch of trainings that were here local, and it, it said art therapy. And honestly, I was just signing up because it just like worked for my schedule and I needed some hours. I had no idea that that's what this was. You know, I was like, drawing, I don't know, whatever. I need some Cs. And then so I just go. And they're like explaining all this. And I was like, it was especially just surprising because I didn't even know what I'd signed up for. And then when I met you and you said about your experience with it and that you were certified in it, I was like, oh, this is, this is exciting. And that's why I wanted to have you on here. Is it okay with you? Are you. Do you have the time to take some questions from, from our people who are here?

Oh, absolutely, absolutely.

Okay, so we'll do that in just one second. Go ahead. Because there's a little time delay. If you, if you're watching live and you have A question for Dr. Jackson, go ahead and put that in the chat because we're about to, we're about to come to the question part. And if you're watching on the replay, go ahead and put your question in the comment and we'll do our best to come back to that and get that answered either myself. And if I can't answer it, then, then I might even ask Dr. Jackson to come back and say, hey, we have this question, you know, do you have, do you have a response to that? In the meantime, while they do That I do. I have put a link in the description for if you want to Learn more from Dr. Jackson, not just about this, but also he has a podcast. His practice is about family recovery. So he does the same thing I do pretty much. And that's kind of how we got connected because we're. We're sort of coming from the same place using a lot of the same methods, I think.

Yeah, you know, families, you know, I think, and you and I talked about this, really needed a lot more help than they were getting. There's nothing wrong with Al Anon, but, you know, the dynamics of each and every family is different. And so we started Family and Addiction Experts. And it's been just so rewarding to work with different families, you know, and sometimes the active alcoholic and addict wants to participate, but that's okay if they don't. And trying to get people to maybe do the invisible intervention that you talked about or, you know, see what they should be doing, what they shouldn't be doing, and get them to get on with their lives and not make it contingent upon their loved one.

Absolutely.

Getting well.

So I put that link for you in the description. The family recovery experts 1. Is there. Is that the best place to find you and learn more from you? Is there another place people should look?

Yeah, family and addiction experts.com is where they can find us. And we can do free consultations, you know, with you to find out if, you know, you. You're right where we're the right fit. And we. Our podcast is called Healing Family Shattered by Addiction. You know, and that's on Spotify and iTunes and YouTube and all that good stuff. We have some family members on there. We'll have just dying myself talking and some doctors who are in the field who also are willing to participate. So.

Okay. And. And as always, there are. There's always resources in the description. So we're. There's links to Dr. Jackson, there's links to some other free addiction resources. Just want to remind you guys that those are down there. And since you brought up podcast, we recently turned these YouTube lives are also in podcasts. So if some people ask me, do you have it on podcast because they want to listen in their car or whatever. So you can find all of the lives that we've done recently you can find on Google, Spotify, just like Dr. Jackson said. So you can find all of that stuff, including this one will be there as well. All right, let's get to our questions and comments because my guess is that these. These people watching are going to be as mind blown as. As I was. Even as a therapist, I was still mind blown about it. And so it's just so interesting. Let's say hello to some people. Hey, yo, yo mama. Nancy's here. Sad Sadie's here. And Karen and Sue's. And lac. What does LAC stand for? In my world, LAC stands for Licensed Addiction Counselor. So I'm just wondering if that.

Yeah, I guess it depends on which state.

Yeah, there was state you're in. Yeah. Let's see here. Francis said she had very positive results with emdr. Is it similar to emdr? What's the similarity? What's the difference? Maybe.

So I will give you the differences I'm going to have to read. Okay.

Okay.

So art images aim to change disturbing images to positive ones. Okay. EMDR images aim to desensitize the client to the disturbing images rather than replacing them. In art, the therapist uses an additional set of eye movements specifically to reduce body sensations. After each set of reprocessing EMDR body sensations are addressed but not targeted separately.

Okay.

In art, therapists use a fixed number of 40 eye movements per set. In EMDR, the number of eye movements can vary based on the client's response and the clinician's judgment.

Okay.

So art is not free associative and follows protocol strictly. We have a script that we follow. EMDR does not utilize free association. And the therapist has some discretion to use cognitive interweaves and clinical judgment. And lastly, art treatment is considered a success when a scene scene is reprocessed. And in emdr, treatment is considered successful when all target memories related to a theme are reprocessed, which includes images, cognitions, emotions, and body sensations. Actually, this art was kind of a spin off of the EMDR because Lanny, that started in 2008, was training for EMDR and she came up with this technique and people were getting better so fast they said, no, you need to do it the EMDR way and if you don't, you're out of this class. And she said, okay, fine, I'm out and I'm going to do this accelerated resolution.

Wow. Because that's the. In my mind, one of the big differences, Dr. Jackson said all the fancy technical terms is faster.

Yeah, it's fast.

Say that it's faster and that's it.

We like fast. You know?

Exactly. I like fast especially. Especially I like fast when it comes to uncomfortable things, for sure.

I mean, what's gratifying is to see like immediate results. We always follow up with the patient that same day. Call them, see how they're doing. It's kind of like, you know, you go to the dentist and get your tooth pulled and, you know, want to see how you're doing. And to me, it's just. It's just, you know, people will say, I'm so relaxed, feeling very relaxed. You know, I. I'm. I slept really well last night, you know. You know, wow. You know, and they're shaking their heads, too, so it can't hurt, you know, to give it a try.

Now, not. Not too long ago, I did. I interviewed a person about polyvagal theory, and I just bring that up because you were talking about the vagus nerve and how that's sort of intertwined in this therapy. Is there. Is there a connection there, or do you. Do you know about, like, polyvagal theory?

I'm not familiar with it. I mean, I'm a. I know about it, but I'd be dangerous if I tried to explain it to you.

Right. I guess what I would say is, if you want to know more about the science and the brain structure and why these memories get processed the way they do and why they activate things the way they do, you might want to go back and check out the polyvagal theory video because it talks about the nervous system and how this stuff happens, and it might even help you understand what Dr. Jackson is saying even a little better. So I'll link that video up at the end of this one for you, in case you haven't seen that. But we do have another good question here from Dinah, and she wants to know, can this therapy be done virtually or does it have to be done in person?

So the short answer to that question is, yes, it can be done virtually, but I do not do it virtually because I find that I really would like the person to be in the room with me. If you do do it virtually, and there are art therapists that do do it virtually. They insist that you have somebody in the house that can watch you. And again, it's an overabundance of caution, but to me, it's way more effective doing it in the office. And there are. You know, you and I talked about this, art therapists, you know, all over the country now. And there is a directory to find people, you know, wherever you are in the United States.

So if you. If you wanted to find this, you would just Google that up, and then you could get to the directory and it could tell you maybe where the closest person to you who provides this kind of thing, Right?

Correct. Correct.

Okay.

So yes, it can be done virtually, but I'm not a huge fan of that. Okay.

Nancy has a question here. Is this done as part of rehabilitation after a person is cleaning off of substances? My son has a lot of trauma, but uses fentanyl daily and inhibits many things, I guess. I think what Nancy's saying is where in the recovery process would this fit in? Is that. I think that's what you're saying.

Nancy, can you repeat that question again? I'm sorry.

Yeah, I'll put it back up here, too, so you can see it. But Nancy's basically. She's got a son who has trauma who's addicted to fentanyl. And I think what. I think what she's asking is when in the recovery process, like, after you get clean, while you're in treatment, before you try to get clean. Where. Where does this fit into the recovery process?

So the quicker you can do it, the better. We were actually at the training, and one of the gals, the clinicians there, her father passed away while we were in treatment, or rather in training. And everybody was like, the leader of the pack or the person who was leading the session said, you can do it within 24 hours. Which to me was amazing. And. And actually, the gal did do it, and she was able to reframe the whole thing. You know, went from guilt, like she was away to, you know, it was. You know, it was meant to happen or whatever. But we want to. If you were addicted to fentanyl and now you're clean and you still have a lot of trauma that needs to be addressed as soon as possible, because it's that trauma that could trigger a return to the use. And the trauma is probably why he resorted to escaping, if you will, with whatever substance use was, whether it was fentanyl or anything else.

Right.

So, yeah. There's no specific timing on this other than the sooner the better.

Well, but I mean, like, do you have to be sober to do it?

Yeah, I would think that you would have to be sober to do it.

Okay. But. But you could be early. Early sobriety and do it, though. But.

Right, right. For example, we don't want people chewing gum while. While they're in, you know, with us or have a mint in their mouth or anything like that. So obviously, if they were under the influence of alcohol or another substance, that wouldn't be the appropriate time.

Okay.

To do it, because we want a clear mind.

I'm thinking, and I could be wrong about this. That's why I'm asking is I'M thinking you would probably need to be past the. With physical withdrawal stage out of a draw, because there's just too much going on in there.

Right. I guess when I was saying sooner than. Than later, meaning if he was, you know, stable, up and running, and completely detoxed from his drug of choice, that would be an opportune time. You know, and there's a lot of inpatient treatment facilities that do emdr, and then art now is starting to become part of the treatment plan.

Right. I was gonna say curriculum, but that's not right. But the process, the program. Right. Is there a question that we haven't asked you that, that we should have asked you, that people might be curious about?

Well, I think the most important one would be how can I access or get to an art therapist?

Right.

And so if you just, you know, Google or search online for accelerated resolution therapy directory, you can go on there, put in your zip code, and it will pop up, you know, and I'll have different levels of art therapists. There's the basic. There's the masters. I think the master's now level has been replaced with advanced enhanced. And you can see. And usually people have Google reviews on there as well, but they definitely have, too, a little bit of a bio about them in terms of what their specialties are. So, you know, you try trying to look for somebody that's specific to, you know, it falls in the wheelhouse of what's going on with you.

And one just plug here for Dr. Jackson. Now you're in Florida, right? I just want to tell yes. Like, is Dr. Jackson near me? They're probably thinking that. But the one bonus that you get with Dr. Jackson is he's also in recovery. So think about it. Dr. Jackson's in recovery. He's in a family, addiction expert, and he's trained in art. You live in Florida. This is your guy, right?

Well, thank you. Thank you. It's hard, you know, it's like, hard for me to take a compliment. My sponsor early on said, brian, when somebody gives you a compliment, take a deep breath and say thank you. So thank you, Amber. But, yeah, I'm in recovery. I'm in my 23rd year of recovery. I'm a Florida board certified addiction professional. And then I also have a doctorate in addictive disorders. But all that wallpaper is fine, you know, to have on the wall. But I am in recovery. And so, you know, one of our mottos is, we lived it, we learned it, and we teach it. And with the coaching side of what we do, As I said to you before we got on, Amber is what I like about that is that I can be really open and share my own story with people. And, you know, we're all about sharing our experience, strength and hope in our private life. But professionally now, I feel like I can do that. And at this point in time in my life, I love what I do. I don't. I tried to retire, and it lasted about three weeks because I was like, give me another alcoholic to work with. I can't do this.

Yeah.

So it's been a blessing, and I'm very grateful that, you know, all roads led to this because it's been so rewarding. And I just feel so blessed to be able to work with people who are, you know, trying to get sober. I mean, they're the nicest people in the world. It's been my experience, you know, and I think people have a misconception of who we are, that we're lazy, that we make bad choices or whatever. But it, you know, there's a big genetic component to this, and it is an illness. And it's not like you're a good person trying to become a. Or a bad person trying to become a good person. You're a good person. We want to try and help you get well. And the disease doesn't discriminate based on, you know, whether you're the CEO of a company or a judge or a lawyer or a pipe fitter or unemployed, just like any other illness, just like hypertension or anything else. But it's been a wonderful journey, and I feel blessed to be on here with you today. And I know when I first talked to you, you said, anything I can do to get the message out. When I asked you to be on. On the podcast. And. And there is a podcast with Amber on. I think it's the most recent one. So I think it's episode 18.

I think Alexis here has, like, a coaching question, which I think you would be great to answer that, too. It's not about art, but it is about family coaching. I think it says, if you're able to get to this at some point. Appointment of resources. Is it counterproductive to suggest treatment to someone who's actively saying they are stuck but not asking help for help? This is. I'm assuming what Alexis is talking about is someone's actively using and they're admitting that they're stuck. They're admitting that they are having a problem, but they're not really asking for help. What Alexis is saying is, is it okay to Offer, you know, have suggestions like maybe this, maybe that, maybe treatment, maybe art. Is that, is that appropriate?

Well, I think you need to catch them at the right moment to bring that up because nobody likes unsolicited advice. I don't like it. You don't like it. And, but if the person is saying I'm stuck and I, and I need help or I don't know what to do, I think that really opens the door for a conversation. Because if they're saying that to you, in a way, they're soliciting advice from you.

Yeah. They're one step away, aren't they? Yeah. Sometimes there's a couple of questions, even Alexis, that if they say that you might could ask two or three more questions that might lead to them opening the door for a piece of advice. So, so I'd say if someone's saying I'm stuck and they're talking about their problem, they're very close to being open. But I, but I also agree with Dr. Jackson. You have to make sure that that window is open, otherwise they're going to shut down on you because they're going to feel like you're pushing them faster than they want to be pushed. But a couple more times.

Correct me if I'm wrong. It's almost like the pre contemplative stage where they're, they're thinking about intellectually. They know that they have an issue, but they haven't made the mind.

It is like the contemplative stage. It's like, okay, I've got a problem, but I'm not necessarily putting a plan in place or taking action steps yet. But there's an awareness that something needs to be done.

Yeah. And what you're looking for is just a little bit of willingness. You know, people will say, oh, I'll go to Betty Ford and they'll, you know, they'll fix me. Or I'll go to this place and they'll fix me. But you can have the best facility in the world. You can have the best counselors in the world. But if you personally don't have a little bit of willingness and can take the cotton out of your ears and put it in your mouth and listen, I always say to people, treatment is but a blink of an eye in your lifetime, so you'd be doing yourself a real disservice if you didn't try it. And I know this sounds cruel, but after a period of time of abstinence and recovery and a form of sobriety, if your life doesn't get dramatically Better, you can always return to drinking and drugging. I know that sounds cool, but if you don't give it a chance, if you don't give it a chance, you know, it would be a shame to go through your whole life and say, wow, you know, this guy, this gal gave me an opportunity. And a lot of times people don't do it because it's out of fear, because it is a big step, you know, to say to change your lifestyle completely or to give up your best friend, your mistress, which is the alcohol, the drugs. And so there's a big void in your life once you remove that. But you can fill it with wonderful, wonderful things.

Right? And I like what you said to Dr. Jackson about a little bit of willingness. People say, well, you, you gotta be 100. I'm like, dude, I never met anybody 100%. I mean, even people that been so well, they're usually like 99%. So a little willingness and, you know, suggesting big, long term treatment doesn't have to be the first thing. It's like, oh, could you, you might like this video, you might like this podcast. If there's a little willingness, a little suggestion, because that might get the door open a little bit more.

And a lot of times when they start to embrace it and the light bulb goes off, you know, five days in, seven days, in two weeks in, the willingness grows and grows and says, wow, you know, this is pretty cool.

Especially if you don't push too hard.

Correct.

If, if they're not scared that if they talk about it, you're gonna say, you gotta go to treatment right now. Then it does grow and grow and grow. And you can put a little, a little seed in there sometimes. Dr. Jackson, I tell people, so we have a lot of family members who watch these videos and listen to this podcast and they'll say, oh, I want to send this video to my loved one. And I'll say, now wait a second. Some of these videos are better ones to send than others. Don't send anything that's going to feel like a confrontation. Send something that someone might be open to. And I would say this is probably a video that people might be more open to.

Because once you, as you know, Amber, because we basically do the same thing once the confrontational interaction with each other. If, if the family stops doing that, the person with that suffering might say, what's going on? They're not sparring with me like they used to. Yeah, they have to take a look at themselves. But, you know, I've seen people die with this Disease. And I've seen people thrive with this disease. And when I say thrive with the disease, not an active addiction, but they have the illness and just their life gets exponentially better. And that's what gives me chill bumps, is to watch people that I run into five years later and say, hey, I got this new job. This is my new wife. These are my children. And my life is just so blessed, you know?

So it's like watching people come back to life. People say, why do you do this work? You know, how. Isn't it, like, weird to talk to people doing that? Do they even listen to you? And I'm like, when people get better from this, they get exponentially better. Of any mental health problem there is, addiction is the one that people get so much better. I always say that if they're not back to themselves, they're better than they were before.

Oh, absolutely.

Yeah. Yeah.

And we're, you know, we're above average intelligence and above average wage earners. We're not, you know, we're not bums. I did an intervention this morning, and the whole family was saying how they felt and crying and everything else. And, you know, I said to the person, I said all of this over a beverage, and the guy went. He had no idea how it was affecting everybody. So I'm hoping that his journey, because he decided to go, is a good one. And the ripple effect on the family is just so positive.

Right.

So there's our therapy out there. There's Amber out there. There's Brian out there. There's a lot of resources, sources. Even on our website, we have a family survival kit that is in PDF form. You can download it. Doesn't cost you anything. Where you can read some more information about, you know, how to deal with this situation. Not art, but how to deal with the situation of substance use disorder in your life with a loved one.

I think you've given us a huge tool and resource that. That I think a lot of people haven't heard about before. So I am super grateful. If I just heard about it this year, then I know there's a lot of people out there.

Well, I mean, I've been doing it for 22, 22 years, and I never heard of it either. You know, art therapy. I mean, my mind went to, like, drawing pictures.

Right, right, right. Not that at all. So we're so grateful that you came to share.

Oh, I'm so grateful that you asked me to come on Amber. And. And I love watching you and. And watch you on Facebook, too. I just love the way you break. Break things down and make it. You don't. You don't dummy it down and talk to people like they're dummies. You break it down and talk to people like you're having a conversation with them and trying to make, you know, you know, sense out of things.

Right. Because that's. The addiction. Doesn't seem to make sense on the surface, but it does once you understand the rules. Yeah.

And I think that's a real gift that you have, Amber, and I hope you continue doing what you're doing.

Thank you. All right, everybody, I will be back next Thursday live at one. And as always, you get a video release on Tuesdays, too. See you soon. Bye. Bye.