Restoring Relationships | Life After Addiction

Rebuilding relationships after addiction recovery. That's what we're talking about today. And you guys have a extra, extra special surprise, because we have Scott, who a lot of you guys have met, but we also have Scott's son Zach. And I thought it'd be super cool if you guys could hear a family recovery story from both points of view. And so I'm gonna let. I'm gonna ask Scott and Zach some questions. But as we go through, if you guys want to ask questions or make comments, feel free to put those in the chat. And we usually go back at the end and try to answer some of your questions if you have them, but I'm not good at multitasking that way, so we usually say them to them. But go ahead and put them in there, because I can scroll back up and get to them. Okay, so, Zach, tell us just a little bit about. Just a little bit about you, like, how old you are, what's going on in your life right now? Just like the basics.

27 years old. Got three. Three clean March, three years that per living rehab, treatment facility. And I live with.

Scott. Can you hear that good? I can hear him barely.

It's kind of muffled.

Yeah.

Okay, that's better.

Yeah. Whatever you did right now, that's better.

Yeah. I don't know.

That's better. So. So you got about three years sober, and you're now like a recovery coach pretty much at the place. At one of the places that you went that helped you get sober. Is that right? Right. Okay, so, Scott, tell us what Zach was like in his not so pleasant days. Give us a little background. Tell us the truth.

You know, like, I'm sure, like most families have experienced, you know, it was bad. It's. You know, he is 27, but I'd say at 17 and 18. So we've been dealing with it for about 10 years. But at 17 and 18, 19 especially was about as bad as it gets. It was full of, you know, lies and deception and arguments and yelling and screaming and the whole thing to where it just, you know, we. At times, we got along for sure, but there was a lot of times where he and I just, you know, it wasn't good for us to be around each other, and it started ruining. Because we did have a great relationship. We had a great relationship with him growing up. We were really close. And then at that period, it really started growing it fairly quickly.

Right. Zach, how old are you? Looking back, were you. Not necessarily when you first used substances, but if you're thinking back, how old do you think you were. When do you think it became problematic?

I'd say after high school.

After high school. And what was happening that makes you think? Oh, yeah, that's when the tide turned.

I would say, I don't know, I was obsessing over drinking, getting high most of the time right when I woke up until I went to the window. So I was either thinking about or.

Doing so for you, it was like the frequency, it was just like all the time, it was always on your mind. You were always either getting messed up, planning on how to get messed up, recovering from getting messed up, that sort of thing.

Yeah, I mean, that's kind of what my whole motive was based with, was partying, just thinking about drinking.

So during that time when it was after it started getting bad, what happened to the relationship between you and your dad?

I mean, he just never trusted me. He was disappointed when worried where I was, who I was hanging out with and if I was going to basically stay alive.

Okay, what were you doing was making him worry that way? I mean, I know you were using substances, but were you like sneaking out? Would you be gone for days? Would you be gone and not answer your phone? Would you?

Oh, yeah, all the time.

What were the dynamics that were happening?

Well, getting wrecked car, be in jail, still turn my phone on for like three days, stuff like that.

Doing donuts in a, in a guy's yard at 5 o' clock in the morning and the police coming knocking on my door at seven in the morning, wanting to know was that my vehicle that was doing donuts in this guy's yard? I'm like, yes, that was my vehicle. But I just. Crazy things.

What are all the things that you did to try to catch him, Scott?

Oh, God. You know, following for about a year, I would wake up in the morning at six in the morning and I would go on to hit the Verizon Wireless site and I would look at his phone bill and I could see, you know, the activity on the phone. So I would know who he was texting at 3 in the morning and who he was calling. And I did that literally for a solid year. Just, I was just trying to, you know, be the investigator and trying to find out what he was doing and who he was with and that kind of thing. So it was, I did all kind of crazy stuff with that.

And then when you would see stuff, would you confront him?

Oh, sure.

Okay.

Of course there would be.

What would happen?

Well, you know, he would lie about it, of course. And, you know, there's no telling how many times I've gone to his workplace to try to see if he was actually working. You know, I would actually. I took him to community college. I would let him out at the front door thinking that he was going to make him go into class and didn't know that he was walking out the back door and never bought a book, Never attended. He might have attended one or two, but I'm not even sure if he did that. But just as a parent, trying to control it and make sure that he was, hopefully. I thought I was trying to help him be successful, where, as we all know, it just doesn't work.

It sounds like it was just sort of like a big cat and mouse game.

That's about all it was. I thought my life at that point was to try to find out what he was doing. And it was almost like his place in life was how to lie and how to get and cheat and steal and get around it.

Zach, one of the things I remember about you is that even though you were, like, really bad, I mean, really bad, you were still so likable.

Yeah.

I mean, I found it hard to even get tough with you because I liked you so much because you're funny and you have, like, a way about you to just sort of talk your way out of everything and charm people. And I think that just let you get by with things about 10 million times longer.

Yeah, yeah.

You would be in group and you would just entertain us with funny stories and just throw us all off track. You're really quiet about it. You remember, was it hard for you? Was he nice to you like that, or was he just a punk at home? Scott?

No.

When he was sober, Zach was always respectful and nice, but when he, you know, when he was high and drunk and stuff, it certainly got out of hand to where he and I, I mean, we've not, not, not a bunch of fist punching, but we've certainly wrestled around and, you know, in the house, in the yard, pull off the side of the road, jerk him out of the car and have instances where, you know, we're. We're putting our hands on each other.

For sure, you're going at it.

Yeah.

Zach, what do you remember thinking about your dad during that time? Were you angry at him? Did you think he was being unfair?

It's hard to really remember. I think I was just to make it so that we were on terms where I could get my money, whatever, and still have a place to live.

So you were strategic about your relationship with him so you would keep him reeled in enough or happy enough that he would keep helping out when you needed it?

Yeah, for sure.

What were some of the things you did to keep him reeled in?

Tell him that I was on the injury guys. I just lie about what I was really doing that I was going to get.

So you would try to make them think you were. You were working on it, you were changing.

Right.

That kind of thing. Okay, what point do you think in your process, Zach, do you think it got the worst.

That it got the.

Word between you and your dad?

I guess I would say, I guess when he just killed letting me live there, no consequences. I just kept taking advantage of my family. Doing what, whatever I wanted to do, and it just never got any better until I got kicked out of trouble.

So it was the worst when you were in the house together?

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

I think the worst that. Don't you think, is, you know, obviously having to kick you out, having to evict you was. I mean, that was about the low point with our relationship. Hard to. Hard to kick your son out of the house and still have a. Have a pretty good relationship.

Yeah.

What do you remember thinking about that, Zach? Were you in your own mind, in the back of your mind, were you like, I had it coming, or were you like, this is some bull, you know? What do you remember thinking about that?

I don't think. I think I was like, this is awesome, because I get to go to my. Do the same thing.

Okay. Okay. What was the turning point for you?

Well, I would say, I guess just being forced to change or to grow up. And then even after that, just time around recovery and other people that I looked up to, my perception on recovery, change, because when I came to, I didn't really want to do so much.

When you first came, you went sort of against your will. You weren't really committed, but you were kind of leveraged, forced into it.

Well, yeah, I didn't. I didn't really sober. I just wanted something different.

Okay. Do you think that was a good thing? Did that ultimately work or it didn't work?

No, it did work.

It did work.

Yeah. I think everything that happened was for reason. That was the problem. Getting better.

Right.

So I can step in when you mentioned that you weren't really mad at me for kicking you out because you could go to nannies and live, share, share your lifestyle for about four or five months, living with her, going up to the neighbor's house.

You're.

You're 20, 20, 21 at that point, and you were going to a 70 year old woman's house, laying out in the sun and drinking. Tell her about, tell her about that whole deal.

That's when I remember you, Zach.

Yeah. And I think that's kind of when the party stopped because I didn't. No one really wanted me as far as my friends. That's when the problem, when it became a problem and I was drinking, taking pills, And so that's. I guess that was the sort of.

Hang out with you you said, do I know your friends wouldn't hang out with you? Is that what you said? And so you were hanging out with.

Yeah, I mean, if I did hang out with them, they would tell me that I'm not drinking liquid, that I can only drink.

Wow.

So. And they were worried about me drinking.

So it got to the point that your friends didn't want to hang out with you because they just thought you were so unpredictable or when you drank, you got crazy or something like that.

Yeah, they just knew I had a problem.

And so who was the 70 year old lady person that your dad's talking about?

Oh, it's just. But I would go over there.

She was your new drinking buddy?

Well, she wouldn't drink. He was drinking and he was throwing the beer cans up under the pool deck.

Oh.

And they had a big storm one day and it rained real hard, so it washed all beer cans down into mama's yard and it kind of, kind of busted his gig.

Yeah. Zach, can you tell us a nanny story? That's what Zach calls his grandmother that he lived with? Just so you guys know.

I don't something about her. I could do anything and she would tell everybody I was doing great, you know.

She would cover for you?

Yeah, I could stay from her and she could catch me doing them pills and tell people that I was doing good.

Okay, so she was a pretty big enabler for you?

Oh, yeah.

Yeah. Scott, can you tell us the story about the time nanny went to the apartment and about the tv? That's a pretty funny one.

Well, yeah, you know, he, we. We had, we actually set him up before he moved in with her. We. When, when, when I kicked him out here. Then she worked with my brother to set him up in an apartment that my brother owned. So they, they set him up in his own apartment and he lived there for just two. A couple of months. But yeah, she went over one day to. I don't know what she was checking on. He was at work, I think, and his drug dealer was in his apartment smoking a joint, playing PlayStation and on the TV that she had bought Zach that he had pawned a couple of times. But so anyway, she walks in, up on the drug dealer, and instead of, like, being scared or, you know, backing out and. And running or anything like that, she basically just started getting into it with a drug dealer because. And told him to get his a. Out of the house. And so the drug dealer says, that's fine, but I'm taking my tv. So he picks up the TV because Zach had owed him some money, and she basically confronted him and told him, put the TV down. He wasn't doing anything. So she was basically into it face to face with Zach's drug dealer. So it's a wonder, you know, things didn't go bad. But she won. I think she won that day. He left without the tv.

Nanny versus the drug dealer. She was, like, bold, and there was. There was several stories like that. I feel like I remember very bold.

But like Zach said. And then, of course, eventually we. We said, okay, you can't handle the apartment now. You got to move in with her. And that. That gave him another four or five months until then finally she realized that, you know, she. She couldn't deal with it either, and that he actually had a, you know, huge problem that he needed to go to. To an inpatient rehab.

Seems like you tried it. Nanny tried. Everyone tried to try to control, like, to stay on top of them and have all these checks and balances, but no matter how much accountability you guys tried to put around them, how much control, it just didn't work.

No, no, nothing. We tried because, you know, you think you're doing the right parenting and you think you're going to be able to fix it, but, you know, when it's. When it's. To the level of Zach's addiction, of what it was, there's, you know, it's. He's the only one that could fix it, and he had to go get some help to fix it. He couldn't do it on his own. You know, I think that's one of the things we're talking about as far as how to rebuild the relationship and things that you do wrong. Because at that time, I associated all the bad things he was doing with him. I certainly didn't associate it to his addiction and to his disease. So that's what really, you know, that's what starts to kill those relationships. Because I thought he was just being a horrible, terrible, you know, piece of crap of a human being and couldn't understand why and what had changed. Because he used to not be that way. And, and that's so frustrating. And it just causes you to, you know, to, to obviously come to blows and, and come to where you just. You can't, you can't, you can't take anymore.

Right. Zach, do you. When you did get sober, was it a decision that you made, like, okay, this is it, I'm sick of it, I'm just gonna do this? Or was it more like you got sober because you had to and then you decided to stay sober?

At first, I was forced to do it. I mean, I'm not really forced to, but I was pressured. And when I heard it was four to six months, I was like, I'm not doing that. But I had been to a surgery daddy training center before, and when I got there, I saw the people that were at the 30 day treatment center, and I saw that there was really nothing after that for me to do. I wasn't too excited about it. So after the 30 day treatment center, I went right back home and did the same thing that I was doing.

Gotcha.

And then I convinced my dad that I could handle beer and not liquor. So I stayed at home for two years. And then that's when I got kicked out of my house, moved into my grandma, and I was pressured to go to the Purple after coming to vote for family. So I did it. And then when I got here, I saw that a lot of the guys came back and hanged and they were having dance over. And so I was like, I do. I would like to do that. But I didn't. I didn't really want to be sober. And like I said, coming back in, it wasn't like I was going to be sober, but I had done some things differently and my perception changed on it. And I don't really know how, but. But today I do sober. And three years ago, I couldn't really say the same.

I think that's important for everyone that's listening to this because that's a huge misconception that people have, is that the person has to want it for themselves. And if there's one message I could get out there to families is that's not going to happen. Like, sometimes you meet people in recovery and when they remember it back and they tell you they'll remember it that way, but. But I'm on the front lines of it and I'm telling you that's not the way it happens in actuality. Like, it's like, you know, you get. You get away from it and you're like, yeah, I was just Done with that. But for most people, it's kind of like, Zach, they're kind of pushed into a situation where they kind of have to get sober and then their brain clears up and they start thinking better. And if they can have some like friendships and some positive things come in their life, a lot of times then they, then they want to for themselves, comes in after the fact. And so it's like behavior before feeling. And so many people wait for the feeling and they think they have to wait for their loved one to be like, yes, I want this and I want it more than anything else. I'm willing to do whatever. Never heard it, not my whole career, not happening. And Zach, you're a recovery coach now. Most of the guys that come into the place where you're at, do they come in. What's the state of mind they're in when they come there?

I mean, there's a lot of things going on. Some of them have like severe mental health on top of the drug addiction. So, you know, but most of them come here depressed, hopeless and lost. And so that's what I do, what I try to do. My experience, that we can have fun being sober, that you can love yourself again and get back to being yourself.

Right. So it's like you try to make some kind of connection with them, whether that's through sharing a similar story or just, you know, hanging with them through the tough times.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

We're pretty big believers at helper families. That connection is the cure for recovery. And the big problem is, is that when people are in active addiction, they do everything possible to push every person around them away as far as possible, as hard as possible. And it's like the one thing that could help the situation, the addiction just pushes it away. Because I think it's just kind of like I gotta. It wants that to stay away, you know, Cause it can't live under those conditions. What do you think, Scott? When did things start to get better between you guys? And what advice would you give families to as far as how to repair the relationship, how to come back, you know, get back on the upswing. And just so everybody that's watching. Scott made a nice bullet pointed list for you guys that I put in a quick guide and I've put the link in the description for you so you can download it. So Scott, we're gonna let Scott tell you, but if you want it in kind of a written form, you can get that in the description.

Well, I think it's probably important just to start out telling Parents that, you know, it's, it's so hard to build a relationship when they're, when they're addicted, you know, if he, if they're not sober. I mean, we had, you know, it's not like all the times were terrible, but it's hard to start to rebuild that relationship when they're still in that addictive mode of using and lying and cheating and stealing and all that. But once that became sober, and of course, you know, he had, he had some relapses, but once he became sober, we started to slowly build, rebuild our relationship. But we had been in some bad times for four or five years. So I think first of all is like, you know, have patience, take baby steps and just really set some realistic expectations that you're not going to come out of it overnight. Right. You can't go through four to five bad years of destroying a relationship and then within a month, you know, have the best Christmas that you've ever had as a family. So I think just set realistic expectations, know that it takes time and celebrate the small victories. You know, just, just honestly, having a decent home conversation might be a victory in the fact that you didn't, you didn't talk about sobriety, you didn't talk about his addiction. You just literally had a decent. And it might be a five minute phone call, but, you know, you might ask how he's doing and it's crazy. But a small victory for a parent is when he actually asked me how I'm doing and I know that he actually cares. He actually means the question. But a small conversation like that could be, could be a very positive step.

Scott, I think you said something really important which was just having a good conversation. And a lot of times families say, what should we talk about? Because families want to talk about the addiction recovery 247 constantly. And that's like the worst thing. I mean, yeah, it has to be talked about at some point, but they're never going to want to talk to you at all if every conversation is like going to the principal's office. Yeah. And so just having casual conversation about sports, about Netflix show you're watching about, whatever, that's where you want to get. You kind of, you need to get to neutral before you can get to good. And so I'm really glad that you said that because it's such an important thing.

Yep.

And then, you know, I think it's so hard to rebuild the relationship if you are holding resentments and you truly hadn't accepted the apology. You know, when they do Become sober. They're going to come to you at some point, and it's going to be on their own time. Sometimes parents get frustrated that it doesn't happen sooner or soon enough, but at some point they'll come to you and truly apologize. And Zach did that and, you know, made amends and such. And I knew he was sincere, but it took me a while honestly to really, truly accept that apology because, you know, I was paying. Our finances had been struggle because of the things that you had to pay for it. You know, whether it be the wrecks or the, you know, tickets and wreck cars and then of course, the rehab cost. But it. You have a lot of those resentment. But after a while, I truly accepted his apology and I was able to separate, like I said earlier, the addiction from him.

Right. And sometimes, and Campbell says this a lot too, is that sometimes, well, if the person works a 12 step program and they work the 12 steps, they'll probably come to you and actually say the words to you. If they're not working a 12 step program, a lot of times people will make amends, but they may not like sit you down and say, I'm really sorry, but you can see it in their behaviors. Like Campbell said, she could tell her son came and changed out all the lights in the kitchen, just did all this work. And for her that was almost like he. Him saying, you know, it's like you can tell that they're acting different towards you and that honestly means the most. Right. When they're dip. When they act different towards you. Exactly right. So even if they're not saying the word, you can look at the behavior and see it and feel it.

Absolutely. And you know, little things with the behavior. You know, it's like I remember small things that just would. I really caught on to. But how grateful they are once they become sober over little things. If, if he were to come and we had a weekend at the cabin and he brought a couple of buddies, before they would get ready to leave, he would hug me and say, hey, thank you. I. That was a great weekend. And those are little things. But you didn't see that when, you know, in the addiction part and like you say, might not necessarily be this huge apology, but the way they acted and the gratitude that he would show and things like that was a huge difference.

Zach, do you ever remember being really angry at your family.

Probably when they just took him through. Money away? I don't ever really remember at the end really angry.

Well, that's just not Zach's personality either. I've told this story a million times. I mean, I could take cars away, phones away, literally. I think I could have dug a hole out in the backyard and stuck him in it. And he would have been fine with it as long as continue to, you know, to do his. To get high. Then it really. He never really got mad.

Yeah. And from what I remember about Zach, he never really talked about, like, he never said anything bad about you, about. About anyone, which is rare because most of the clients that I see are really mad at their families. But I feel like with Zach, he did have such a good relationship with y' all before all that. Like, he knew deep down he might get mad because he didn't get what he wanted. But he didn't think ill of you.

Right.

As much as some of them do. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm gonna take a couple of questions and I know, I saw one of the question was about denial. Let me see if I can find that. Here's a question from Melissa. She said, wanted to ask Scott, how did you. And how did you know Zach was serious about getting better and not BSing you anymore? How do you take him seriously and Zach, in your mind, what was the thought and feeling you took to fix all your issues?

That's a good question. You know, I, at first, because I wanted, you know, you try to cling on to any kind of hope. The first time I sent him to rehab, I thought he was serious about it. Right. Because he said the right things. He said, oh, I'm gonna change. And so I sent him to a 30 day rehab thinking they were gonna fix him. And because I just wanted to cling to that hope. And then the second time we sent him to rehab, the same thing. I really thought that he wanted it. And then of course, he relapsed in rehab and then relapsed soon after getting out of that rehab. And so the third rehab that he went to, I really wasn't. I didn't. I wasn't clinging to that hope. I didn't know if he wanted the rehab or not, but I offered it. And you know, he had come off of a relapse where he almost died. So I don't know, I guess I didn't have any thoughts about that one other than I just kind of had given up control and was praying that he would finally want it. And, you know, like he said three years ago, after he had relapsed in od.

It.

It was pretty clear the first two or three months into that that things were different. And he really did seem to want it.

Gotcha.

But it took a while. I mean it. I, I believe, you know, I kind of had the rose colored glasses on when we put him in rehab that, oh, yeah, he wants it because he's there. That didn't mean anything. That was just a place to live and what he felt like I pressured him to do and he kind of went along with it.

Yeah, I think that kind of lines up with what you were saying. Zach is like, he didn't really want it, but he kind of was backed into a corner like he wasn't going to have any other option, really.

Right.

But he went, let's see. Sandy says, hi, Zach. First of all, congrats. Second of all, I have a question. I was wondering, how long did it take you inside yourself after you quit to recognize your own behavior and truth and no self denial. Can we put that back up there? Can you see that? There you go. I think basically what Sandy's asking is like, how long after you got sober did you get, like, really honest with yourself about all the things that had happened?

So this thing's a focus. And obviously the longer I stay clean and sober, the more about myself is revealed. And I learn a lot about myself. That's why I love the 12 step.

Program.

Because it works on all that. You learn a lot about yourself. And I've worked the steps like two or three times, and every time I've learned more about myself. Yeah, I don't really know the time or a day, and I'm still learning.

Kind of more of a process. Is that what you're saying? Just kind of evolved?

Yeah. I'm still learning about myself even now. Three years March. This is going to be a. For me.

Gotcha. And I will say this one thing that was another thing that was a little different about Zach is when I met Zach, he had come out of the first treatment center and had a relapse. But he wasn't in denial, so denial wasn't his issue. Like, he would easily tell you he was an addict. He didn't have any trouble. He just had trouble wanting to stop.

Yeah.

And so it's, there's, there's layers to it. People think once a person realizes they have a problem, then this is like this magic thing that happens and then they're going to do whatever it takes to fix it. But that's not really the way that it works. It's like, you know, I say denial's like an onion. You know, there's like layers in there. It's like, so he knew he had a problem, but he didn't want to stop. Yeah. Tony has a question. Were your family get togethers a fight or were you on edge all the time? Scott?

All the above. You know, I. First of all, we would fight just to get him to come. Right. Because he was getting high and he, he would be off with his friends. I remember one Thanksgiving he, he made an excuse of, you know, I'm from a divorced family, so. Or Zach's from a divorced family. So I had, I had a second wife and step kids and, and we would try to get him to come to our family Thanksgiving and he would rather be off getting high with his friends and of course that would hurt your feelings. And I remember one time he made an excuse of why he couldn't come. And then we were riding down the highway and we saw him with, you know, some of his buddies that we knew we were getting high with. And it crushed me. You know, I thought, well, he just doesn't want to, he doesn't want to be around us. But yeah, it was always, it was always a struggle. It was all you're, you were always on edge and wondering what was going to happen. And it, the family, the family get togethers could have at times be terrible.

A lot of times that is the hardest times in families.

Yeah.

Daphne's got a question for you here. She's asking how do you make sure you have something to look forward to when you come out of treatment? I think what she's referencing is when you went into the one 30 day treatment, not that first one, but Georgia, and you knew that there wasn't going to be anything after for you to do.

I think it all starts with the foundation you built for yourself and then taking suggestions from other people that you actually want what they have or they've been before and that you can see up at the end of the tunnel, and then you take that suggestion and do something. I don't know. I think all programs are different, but if you go in there and you want something different and you're willing to do something different, you know, good things will happen. And I believe that.

Think part of what Zach is trying to say too, if I remember back to that time, is just that he was in a 30 day program that didn't have an aftercare program. So it's kind of like you're in the program, you get sober for 30 days and then you're out. And then what? You know, and I think what Zach's talking about is there's A couple of pieces. One is there's a. You've got to be in somewhere long enough to build a life. You got to build friends. And that's what Zach's saying. You have to be around people that you saying, okay, you know, their life is good. And I want to have a life like that. And, and that was the problem with that program and problem with a lot of programs is if it's just you go away for 30, 60 or 90 days but then nothing, and then it's like back home. And if that home is away or back wherever, that there's a big problem right there. And I think that's what, what I was talking about was what was missing with that particular treatment episode.

Yeah, that's what I'm talking.

Let's see here.

Come to Purple.

Come to Purple.

I really believe that if the alumni program at Purple wasn't there, you know, for the, For Zach and all the guys that get out, you know, I honestly believe Zach probably wouldn't be here today. He just. The alumni program to be able to have young men that are trying to be sober and have. Be able to, you know, have people to go do stuff with and have a fun life with, with guys that are trying to be sober was. Was huge to his, you know, that. I think that's why he's got three years sober. Is that community?

It's a community. I love it. Yeah. Let's see. We have a question here. HS be specific on boundaries. Keep vehicle alcoholic uses blocked. Inconvenience him or her. Now, a drunk will demand you move your car. Then you say, take a breathalyzer to prove you're not drunk. We actually have a whole playlist and some really good step by step process about boundaries. And it's such a complex subject. I don't know that we can do it any justice just in a one or two sentence comment. But I will link up that description for you HS so that you have it because we've got some videos that are only just about that that'll be super helpful for you. We've got one person that says this topic is very personal for me. My father and I were rebuilding our relationship when the disease took him. It was the most beautiful experience and I've been blessed to live with him. He's recovering after years of silence and I felt like I had to call him. He answers the phone with a big loud hello, heard me say, hi, dad, it's me. And broke down. We had almost two years together, which I wouldn't trade for those years or the grief that followed or anything in the world. That's such a thank you for sharing that with us. That's sweet. And it just talks about, you know, it's never too late to reap, to get to fix the things.

I think that's awesome. You know, as many bad years as we had and, you know, now we work to rebuild it, but, you know, I wouldn't give anything in the world for the relationship that he and I have now. It's great. And, you know, I like what Zach said earlier, that it is a process and maybe all these things that we had to go through. Right. And I've said a million things. Not only did he learn to change and fix things in his life, but I had to do the same thing. It made me a better person. Therefore, I can now be, I think, be a better dad to him. But our relationship now is so much better. So I wouldn't, I wouldn't give anything. I wouldn't change anything.

Here's our last question. That's for you, Zach. Hey, Zach, another question for you. Do you practice self care? If so, how do you stay in a positive way of life may not be expressed. Is there something you do to stay positive?

I mean, yeah, coming into treatment or, you know, going to like my, whatever, third or fourth rehab I went in not thinking they couldn't work. And like I said, like I said before, they kept telling me that I needed to do something different. And I did. I started taking suggestions and started doing things I've never done before. I actually worked the 12 step. It was fun. I've been like four places and they were all 12 step programs, but I never worked a step. And so I actually did some things differently. And like I said before, my perception of life changed. And today I'm a pretty positive person overall. But I would get, you know, doing the next thing, doing what my sponsor suggests me to do, staying connected with my network. I think connection, like Andrew said, is huge for me.

And.

I do deep breathing meditations with my sponsor. And I have a sponsor. I mean, there's a lot of things I do, but overall, I'd say I'm a pretty positive person.

Yeah, I think there's really sort of two aspects to what Zach's saying, and it's a really good answer that he has. And one is that even though he'd been to treatment, he maybe had, like done the steps, he hadn't worked the steps. Right. You can, like fill out your little workbook or, you know, do what you had to do. But there was some point in there. What Zach's saying is he decided to actually, like, go all in and. And really work it. And that's when things started to change. And I think that makes you feel the kind of positive that lasts because you like yourself. And when you like yourself, you feel better because you're. You're just. You're living in a way that you feel more proud of. You've got more integrity. And so that's one of the things is just sort of trying to get your life right makes you feel more positive. The other thing, just on a different kind of level, and Zach said this too, is that Zach's a pretty positive person. I don't know why he's being super shy on this call right here, but Zach is the kind of person that can find the fun in anything. Just naturally. He can tell you a story about going to the gas station and come back and tell you a story, and you think it's the funniest thing you ever heard. Like, he. He has a natural ability for that. But that even though he's always had that, he even had that in activation inside, he wasn't happy. And so what Zach's saying is to get to a real positive place on the inside, it took change in himself.

Right?

Thank you for everybody who hung out with us today. It's been fun. We will be here next Thursday at 1. And if you're watching this on the playback, feel free to write your questions or comments in the comments below, and we will come back to them and get you some answers. Bye, everybody.

Bye, guys. Have a good day.

See ya.