Stages of Family Recovery (the GOOD, the BAD, the Ugly!)

You guys have probably heard me talk a lot about the stages of addiction and the stages of change, but this is the stages, particularly that the family goes through, the ups and downs. Campbell's going to share about her personal family experience with that, and then we're gonna talk to you guys about some surprise outcomes in the end that you probably never thought of, you didn't see coming. But overall, I would say they are pleasant surprises, but we'll save that part for you to the end, because they don't come immediately. It's a journey to get there, wouldn't you say, Campbell?

Yes, it's a struggle journey.

Usually when Campbell and I talk about these. These stages of family recovery, we talk a lot about it in relationship to, like, the grieving stages, because we found that families go through that, and you've probably heard of those. The denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and then finally acceptance. And I feel like that's exactly the process families go through, but it's not like a straight line. Campbell, you have a way of saying this. How is it you.

Yeah, I say grief is on a coil. And so you can be angry and then a minute later be sad. An hour later be in acceptance. And at the beginning, the coil is big. And then over time, the coil gets narrower and narrower so that those. Those thoughts usually change more quickly or don't change at all. So you finally narrow down to where you get, like, it is what it is, or you stay pissed or whatever it is. But at the top, it's just chaos. And the problem is, like, Frank and I were never in agreement. Like, I might be sad, and he would be angry, or he'd be like, okay, fine, it's not that big a deal. We'll carry on. And I'm thinking, you know, the end of the world is happening. So I spent a lot of time with parents getting them to recognize that you're not going to be alike, but you have to give each other the space to be where you are.

Exactly. I think that's probably the biggest issue is the fact that it's not just the stages. It's the fact that the family's never lined up and succinct on those stages. So one's angry, one sad, one wants to kick them out, one wants to coddle them. And. And so not only are you having these grief stages about your loved one or your child, but you also have all this animosity between you and your spouse or you and other family members. Maybe it's you and your parent or the grandparent.

And so Or a child, another sibling.

Oh.

I usually see the siblings are angry, and they don't understand the sadness or the tolerance or even the slips of just giving them money. They're just mad all the time.

Yeah. They think, why do you keep putting up with this crap, basically?

Right?

Yeah. Yeah. So talk to us a little bit about how you and Frank and Mark, how. What was that like for your household? Like who. How did those coil of grief savages happen for you?

Well, with our first son, it was very. I was beyond sad. I was just broken. I knew something was wrong, but I couldn't figure it out as we've talked about in my story. But once. Once the reality hit and we did know after we met you, I was just sad because it wasn't working, and I was terrified, and he was in and out of our house, and we never knew where he was. Frank was sad, definitely, but he would move into. Frank is. I think Frank is just better at compartmentalizing, so he could be sad and then move on. And I just sort of bled into everything. And Margaret was mad, but she didn't really talk about being mad. She just disappeared. She spent a lot of time in her room studying or reading or out with friends. And then when she did talk to us, she would be mad. She still talks about the year I didn't decorate for. For Halloween. She's 24, and she still talks about the year she was 12.

She needs to work, Steph, about that.

That's a problem.

So for those of you who don't know, Campbell's got the two sons in recovery, and then her daughter Margaret, who's the youngest of the three. That's who you're talking about here. Who was mad was Margaret, the little sister, Right?

Yeah. She's four years younger than the first son and six years younger than the oldest one who went second.

Okay.

And she was frankly madder at the second son because we'd already gone through this. He had seen it, and he was the one that was stealing all of our stuff. And she just. She was mad at him for years.

You were mad at the second time, too.

I was just saying.

So you took my stuff. Some of you guys probably don't know this about Campbell, but she's partial to her thing. She has a lot of sentimental value in things. Things are important to her. And that hit a button, a different button. So it was like. Even though you went through it twice, it was really different. It was a very different process for you.

It was very different. And what. And you've pointed it out sort of in the middle of the one with the second one, which I had not caught, was that it had almost flip flopped that Frank was more mad and on top of the second son, and I was more in denial. And then it took me to have to sort of be rob blind literally before I sort of saw it. And then with the first one, I was just incensed that something horrible was happening. And Frank was more of like, boys, boys, you're overreacting. We can't sniff alcohol or marijuana so there's not a problem.

Right.

And that made me mad because there was a problem.

Right? It was so. It was like the first time you were super sad. Frank was sad, but in and out of it. The second time, Frank was frankly a.

Better caregiver to Margaret. Like he would say, let's go out for Chinese food on a Friday. And I'd be like, no, I'm not going.

Right.

Let's go watch a movie. No, I'm not going to watch a.

Movie because I feel like with the first son you were sad, but with the second son you got into a full out hardcore depression. Like it was different. Yeah, yeah. You called it the trough.

The trough.

Talk to us about the trough.

I see it with my. So many of my clients, I'm like, dude, don't do it. The trough is where like that, that Frank would say, let's have Chinese food or let's go watch a movie. And my, my response in my head was, I'm not doing that because I don't want to be happy and I don't deserve to be happy. I've just. And then my, my thought then became the more miserable I could be, the more I deprive myself. Then I would be prepared for when the next bad news came. And I remember you saying, that's not going to happen. You can go from here. Where's my hand? To here. But when the next bad thing happens, you're still going to go to here.

Right. It's that sort of flawed thinking of like, if I expect the worst, I won't be disappointed.

Right.

But I think that's just a trick we play on ourselves. I don't think that's true. I think you completely disappointed. You just rob yourself of joy in between. That's what I say.

And then you just end up flipping flat out depressed and self punishing because you definitely. That's a myth for sure.

Right.

I tell people that all the time. Like you're, you're, you're not helping yourself.

Exactly. You're not that whole, like, I'm just gonna expect the worst thing. Number one, I really am kind of a big believer in that you find what you're looking for. So I think you can almost manifest the worst. And secondly, it's just. It doesn't protect you. I remember you telling me at one point. I forget. I don't think I've said this in a long time, but I don't know why this sticks in my brain. But I don't even know why you told to me. But you told me something about, like, how you were just, like, compulsively weeding. I think every time I pull up a weed, I think about that, like, and I can just picture you out there, like, literally.

I was. I was angrily, compulsively something about you. I was aggressively weeding, like, with bad words in my head toward addiction and taking it out on the yard. Yeah. And that's why I have to hire a yard man now. I can't go out and do it. It just really reminds me of that.

Like a trigger, like a trauma.

Oh, it's just. It just sends me backwards. So I have this poor Oscar, who I'm like, if you could just take care of that bed fully, then I don't have to come out here because it's not good for me to come out here. He's like, okay, woman.

He probably thinks you're super, super spoiled or something. I just remember you saying that you were obsessively weeding. You're like, there's no weeds left. I'm going to my neighbor's house. I'm weed their house.

I also compulsively IR that didn't need to be ironed.

Iron. Okay. I don't think I remember that one as well.

Any aggressive behavior I could do, I did compulsively.

Okay.

It was not pretty. It was. It's not flattering. It's not. No one should imitate it. It's embarrassing.

Well, we're. We're laughing about it now, but it wasn't funny at the time. You were really in a dark place. And it takes. I mean, you get upset, but you don't usually stay in a dark place for long. And you were. You were. It was tough. And then there's the story. I'm gonna let you tell this while I plug up my computer because my laptop looks like the screensaver's going on, but about the bad news that happened. And then Frank and I had an argument about who was going to call you. I'll let you tell that story while I plug my laptop up here.

So I was traveling for work, and I was in Chicago, and we'd already found out, like, eight months ago that my son had stolen a bunch of our jewelry. And my jewelry and I had found a good bit of it at the pawn shop and gotten it back at great expense, emotionally and financially. And so, you know, he'd sworn he would never do it again. He was out of our house. And I had not seen any symptoms of a problem. And so I was out of town in Chicago, and I came up from, like, on a break to just go to bathroom in my hotel room. And the light on the hook, the phone was blinking. Now, let me just preface this. Frank never calls me when I'm out of town. So I didn't even think, oh, it's Frank. So I was like, well, that's weird. Who's calling? And then it was Amber. And I sat down in the chair, and I was like. And we were not friends at this point. Just. I was like, amber Hollingsworth is not calling me to say, how's Chicago? So I called back. I returned her call, and she said. So I got the short straw. Frank is afraid of you. But I have to tell you that the police have gotten in touch with Frank, and your stuff's gone again. And I just remember being like, I think. I think I might have caught the hotel curtains on fire because flames flew out of my ears. I was just like, mother, no, ma'.

Am.

And I just. I remember saying to you, get him out of my house. And you said, he's already out of your house. He's, you know, at the hospital, and he and I are already working on a plan for where he can go. And I said, good. And you said, will you come to. When you fly in? I said, Sunday morning. He said, will you come to my office to talk about. I was like, no. You were like, could you please come to my office? So, yeah, I was mad. Like, I went downstairs, and I don't think I listened. I think we had, like, the best speaker of the entire conference. And I don't. I have a clue what the man said.

I mean, we're laughing now, but you guys are watching, man. I was like, count's kind of scary when she's mad. I cannot really work. I'm like, I'm not calling. I'm not calling. Like, we gotta get that son out there. Pray for his safety.

Yeah. And then I do remember when I did pick him up from the Carolina center to take him to Purple, you.

Said you weren't going to do it.

I said I wasn't going to do it, but Frank said he wasn't going to do it, so. And I wanted that kid gone, so I did it. And you came out of the doors to, you know, bring him back in to check out to where I was waiting. And I didn't say hello to him. I don't even know if I said hello to you. And we got in the car. We did not speak for two hours on the way to Atlanta. And I tell the story in jest, but I'm kind of embarrassed to say it's probably true. I don't think I parked the car. I know I slowed down enough because his legs weren't broken, but I pretty much like, get out. Good luck. We'll see you later.

Yeah.

And he just got out and walked away.

Have any of you guys watching ever been that angry? I'm thinking that, Campbell, you're probably not the only one who's been to that point.

Oh, no. I've heard many stories that I'm like, high five.

Mm. I feel that it took you a long time, a long time to get on the other side of that. It really was. It was. I mean, we laugh now, but it wasn't funny then. Like I said. It was. It was scary. It was awful. And it was just like back to back punches. Just one thing after another. I mean.

I mean, it was. It was 13 months after we took Neil to purple.

Mm. So, I mean, it was just like one thing after another thing after another thing. And it was awful. Like, really didn't want to have to call and tell you they were getting some been there messages. Lord.

Yeah. But has anyone else caught the hotel curtains on fire?

It's the tuck and roll method to take the treatment. Tuck and roll. Get out the car. Yeah. So. So we. We kind of promised, I think, that we would say something about some unexpected things at the end. I need to get. Muriel says I need to get over on the other side. So.

Okay.

What that other side is, because I do think there is something that comes out of the other side. It. It's not fast and it's not immediate. It's a process. But there are some. Some outcomes that. That you will feel in the end. You've grown as a person, I think. So talk to us about that.

So years ago, we were still in the other office. So six years ago, probably, I sat with my parent group and I got one of those big sticky notes out and I asked them four questions. And the one we're Going to talk about today is what would we gain if we did not know that our child would never relapse, which is reality. We don't. We don't ever know that. And I didn't say a word. I literally just stood there with the marker, and they. They had answered, what would we gain if we did know? What would we gain if we. What would we lose if we did know? What would we lose if we didn't know? And what would we gain? And the response for that question was overwhelmingly wonderful. I'm looking at the paper because I've saved it for six years, and I bring it out all the time. And some of those parents are still in our family group and they talk about it. But the best ones, there are a lot of them. But the best ones are resilience. And we learned that we can go through terrible things and come out with some meaning. We come out with a greater sense of belonging because we are part of a small but wonderful club of people who have been touched by addiction and recovery perspective. I used to worry about the dumbest things that now I'm just like, it's not that big a deal. It's no biggie. Gratitude. I think this is the biggest one. We come out of gratitude. Not that our child has recovered, because sometimes that doesn't happen for our clients and everyone, but a gratitude of what we get with life and being able to live and what the world offers. And right now, I think this is probably. These are probably good things to go with just because of what's happening with COVID I mean, it's easy to get into the trough right now, again, increase in relationships. I think this is one of the best things with the friends that we talk about this with in our family. We are a better family than I think we ever would have been had we not gone through this. We talk about crazy, vulnerable, insane things. We talk about much more, many more things that matter, I think, than we used to. We really appreciate each other and the time we have together, even if it's just Christmas Eve. We make the most of it with who we have at the time. Now that people are getting married and split, we're better listeners. We have much more realistic expectations of life and what is coming. Life is the series, I say this all the time, of a few wonderful, wonderful highs. Unfortunately, a lot of terrible, terrible lows. And then I think as we come through this, we learn to live just in the squiggle of little high, little lows. But the little lows don't really drag Us down. And the little, little highs are more important than they used to be. Self respect, patience, a huge decrease in shame. I think part of the problem with addiction and for all of you guys listening is, is it shameful? And the disease thrives on it. It makes you depressed, it makes you hide, it makes you do all the things that I did. But I would hire the Goodyear blimp to fly over my house if I had the money that says we have two kids in recovery and we're okay, we're proud of it. Understanding, communication. We're better communicators. Not always, I mean, but I think that just perspective is the biggest one I think you could put under it. A lot of my families talk about faith and their faith is much stronger, is what got them through it. I'm more of a spiritual person than a religious person. So I hear what they're saying. I think my spirituality I could put up there with their faith. But I think spirituality sort of feeds on sort of the things I've talked about.

I think you've heard me say a lot of times. And I always say, like all my favorite people in recovery and the, the reason is, is because in order to get real true recovery and hold on to it, you have to grow muscles that regular people don't have. You have to be humble in a way that regular people don't. You have to be self reflective, honest, and live with integrity to a level that regular people don't. And I think the same thing is true for the families. This process forces you to be a better person all the way around, to be more humble, to be more vulnerable and honest, have conversations you would never have to have. Because if you're going to come out the other side of it, these are muscles that have to be built. And all the things that we teach on this channel about boundaries, about, you know, your side of the street and their side of the street. I get this comment on videos all the time where people say like, well, that's helpful in any relationship. And that's true. So the muscles you build through this process are going to help you. Anything that we teach, you're going to.

Help anyone in life.

Well, it's good for any relationship. It's just that to deal with this issue, you got to become like an Olympic athlete of the boundaries and the communication and the connection more than regular.

Yep.

Yeah. So those are the silver linings. And I know before you and I were going to, we were doing our plan to sort of have this video today and we both, you were thinking. And I was thinking it too, and you said it first, but it was like I was a little worried that sometimes saying some of the positive things can be irritating or off putting or tick you off downright sometimes when you're in the middle of it. Can you talk a little bit about that?

Yeah. And I get that because I. I'm sure I thought it the same. Nobody ever actually had this conversation, but just the. We warn people all the time as they come into our family group. Like, we're fairly irreverent and we laugh a lot and we warn people that we are going to laugh. Because I remember going to family group at the Carolina center with you the first time, and they were laughing and I was just like, this is not effing funny. And it was just like, how did I get in this room with these people? And so any little bit of hope or happiness just incensed me. And what I tell people is when I first meet them is not first, but soon after. I say, at some point in time, most of my clients either write me a note, send me an email, or tell me in person that they have achieved some of the things that I've talked about. Which is why we call this hope for families, is we hope that the family comes through with some of this better stuff. And I would say 90% do send me a letter or email me. But at the beginning, they shake their heads. I used to in the old building, could see them leaving through the window of the parking lot. And they're all just shaking their heads like she's out of her mind.

Right.

So I, I do. You have to be aware of that as you're talking to people, that if you're in the thick of it, you're in the thick, you're in the trough. If somebody had said when I was in the trough this will all work out, I'd have been like, bite me.

Yeah, it's the same thing. Like, we have a few people in our group right now who are just brand new and they're struggling, they're miserable, they feel terrible. And we're like, we promise you gonna feel better. And I know that that just makes them matter when we say it. So we try not to say it because. Because when you're in the middle of it, you just can't see that part.

And you're so terrified and you're. You're afraid that you're spending money. You're afraid it's for nothing. You're afraid they're going to die. You're afraid you're going to do the wrong thing. That you can't do anything but be terrified. Which is why I say if you do nothing, but if you're terrified, then at least try to take a bath, try to read a book, try to eat a meal, try to do something to. To begin that shift out of that. Because if all you do is, that's all you do.

Tara says amen on the blimp idea.

I think they're really expensive. I think they're super expensive.

Yeah, they are super expensive. But you love the blimp.

I love the blimp. I drive around town whenever it's here and just follow it.

It's a random camel thing. Yeah. So I even get that on a comment occasionally on some of my videos is that I think sometimes I can come across as irreverent or sarcastic, which is totally true. I can't even say that's not true. Like, I'm even worse than real person. But I think you almost have to get to that point where you can be funny about it and laugh sometimes and laugh at yourself, because otherwise it's going to take you down. I mean, if you. You have to develop some kind of thicker skin about it to survive it, I think. Or just survive it.

The other side is helpful in life. Just so that you know when you catch your bell loop on the door jamb. Yes. That happened yesterday and it rips. You just think. You just laugh instead of thinking, these are new pants.

Exactly. So let's see. We have a. We have a comment here. What if a family function. You saw one of your sons who's in recovery have one or two casual drinks, but doesn't say anything about it. What would be your reaction? Oh, that's a good question.

Well, that's an interesting question because both of my boys do socially drink now. Neil has 10 years of sobriety on Amber's birthday, July 11, and Quinn five. So they both do randomly drink a beer or cider. They both talked to me about it before they did it. So I don't know how it responded had I just seen them do it, but I would have probably said something.

Yeah, the sneaking part of they're not saying something, part of it makes it more difficult.

Yeah. I think I would just say, hey, I saw you have a drink. You know, let's talk about that. You know, and this is probably another topic we can talk about for the whole 20, 30 minutes is my view on that is the. That addiction is the cure to. It is time and connection. But the flip side of that is that we flip the chemicals. So if I. If I. My boys were both in a space where they had so much serotonin and so much oxytocin, so much pride and so much connection from their jobs, their relationships, the homes they own, the cars they own, the dogs they own all that. That. That it was okay for them, in my opinion, to roll those dice. If I don't see that, I don't think it's a wise decision to do it.

Yeah, I think you're right. I think actually that's a question that a lot of individuals in recovery have, a lot of families have. I do think that's actually a topic worth spending a whole. A whole video on. So I think we should come back to that, because I know other people are having that question.

Yeah.

Good perspective. Well, I know you got to get back. I know Campbell is crazy busy. She literally barely had time to do this for us today. So we want to say thank you for getting on here and sharing with us. If you like to schedule a phone consultation session with Campbell because you're going through this and you need a little help or just a little understanding, I'll put the link in the description to tell you how to. How to do that. But thank you guys for watching, and we'll see you next week. Thanks, Kim.

Thanks, guys. Thanks for having.

Me.