Surviving A Loved One's Addiction (This is the Key!)

If you have an addicted loved one, you are in the right place. This video is definitely for you because we're going to talk about how to make the process easier. Okay? Let's not kid ourselves. It's never going to be easy. Okay? There's nothing easy about this process. But we've got with us today Campbell, who's our family recovery expert, and she's going to help us understand how to make it at least the easiest, smoothest possible way that you can do it. Right? Right.

So Campbell, again, though, it's not. It's not going to be super easy.

It's not going to be super easy. Right. For those of you don't know, Campbell, she is not only our licensed family recovery specialist, but also has two sons in recovery. So she's an expert witness from every single angle. Is there, what I mean, is there a way to make this easier? What do you have to do to make this easier, Campbell? Like, please help us out because it's awful enough.

So the basic thing you need to do to make it easier is to get help to find. Find a group, a support system, something to help you. And I was thinking about this in the middle of the night, you know those, like, people that go on, like, European tours where the person waves the flag and everybody follows around and like always thought, why do people do that? But I grew up in Europe. I speak several languages, so it just didn't make sense to me. And then I know some friends who've like, like wanted to sail to the Bahamas, but they hire a big sailboat and they hire a crew to do it. The reason that we do those things is, yeah, I guess we can navigate Europe by ourself and I guess we could sail a sailboat. But it's easier when you hire professionals, when you get support, when you have a staff who's. Who are knowledgeable and know what they're doing. So it's the same thing with recovery is you want to get into some system or a support group, somebody, some. A good counseling group, something that can help you make it easier. They have the wisdom that you don't have. Just like, you know, you're in this foreign country and you don't speak the language well, the tour guide can navigate for you and tell you this is this has chicken in it or what? So you need someone who speaks the language. It's a far less lonely journey when you're doing it with other people. Going to Europe by yourself can be lonely, but if you're in a big tour group, you have Camaraderie. You have other people who get it. And when you say, I don't know what they're talking about, they're like, I don't either. And you feel better about yourself. So you get the wisdom, you get the camaraderie. You also find out a lot of stuff you don't know, like shortcuts and treatment like that.

I like the shortcuts.

And you can ultimately save money because you have those shortcuts. You have that wisdom. You don't have to be the one out there 99% of the time researching, learning, struggling, figuring out the biology of addiction, which you probably aren't going to figure out unless someone tells you. So you're going to be working in more of a vacuum than you need to be working in.

I would think, Campbell. I would think it'd be more than money. I think it's money, time, and a bunch of heartache. Right?

It's a bunch of time for sure. And definitely heartache, because that's, you know, I always talk about navigating through this journey of recovery from addiction is a. Is a disenfranchised grief because other people don't get it. Only we get it. You know, only other parents going through this really get it. Other people can say, oh, that must be terrible, or whatever, but they don't get it. So it's so nice. I can remember in family group all the time, they'd be like, I don't have to be embarrassed. I don't have to explain myself if I'm laughing. No one's like, why are you laughing? Like, we. They get each other. And I think that's the most important thing as to why you don't want to do this alone. It's too sad. It's too lonely.

Right? And I think so basically, kind of camel. What you're saying is the first thing you need to do to make it easier on yourself is get yourself some kind of tour guide or a buddy that's been there or something. Because if you don't, what does the picture look like?

If you don't, the picture looks like you're going to go with your intuition. You're going to operate a lot under the. I hear this all the time from parents. They'll say, well, you don't know my child. I'm like, you're right. I don't know your child, but I totally know addiction. And right now, we're not really working with your child. We're really working with addiction.

That's right. Yeah.

So if you don't have that. You're going to go under your intuitive parenting. You know what? How will this look for my child? You're going to be using your emotional mind. And once you get on that tour guide, you don't have to. The wise mind is running the tour. And it's too, it's the time factor when you have to let go of your own emotions. You have to teach yourself how to be non intuitive. I don't actually think it's possible or you'd have to be super gifted and be very patient because that's. That goes against every grain we have as parents.

I think that that's such a good point. And you and I were talking about last night when we were leaving the office and we were talking about doing this live today. I was on my. When I was driving home, I was thinking to myself, I was like, you know, it's, it's the exact same thing that family members want their addicted loved one to do. They're like, you can't do it by yourself. You have to have help. You have to go talk to Amber or you have to a sponsor or you have to go to treatment. And you're like very insistent that your loved one can't do it by themselves. Because you're like, no, you have to have help. And the reason, and there's truth in that and the reason is for the same exact thing you're saying, right? This is not a problem that your instincts will get you out of.

That's a really good point. I hadn't thought about that. And also goes directly in line with the opposite of addiction is connection. So if they need connection, we need.

Connection and you just can't. What, you know, what I tell a lot of my clients about is you can't trust yourself when it comes to this. You can trust yourself with anything else. Anything else.

Well, you wouldn't trust yourself to do your own surgery.

Right? You don't, don't trust yourself when it comes to addiction because your instincts will lead you awry. And, and, and, and families, I think inherently understand that about the addicted person, but they don't inherently understand that about their themselves situation. Right.

That's a really good point.

Yeah, don't get thought of that. It's like me, it's like I've always wanted to go to New York. I like your reference about going to Europe, but I'm like, I'm not going to New York by myself. Like I'd have to go with somebody that been there before or something. Because this girl Right here. Could not navigate no subway system.

But that goes right back to my point is you could. You absolutely could. You're smart enough to go to New York. It would just be more fun, less lonely, and you'll spend a lot of less time riding the wrong subway train.

I'll spend my whole time being lost, paying subway fares, getting scared in the wrong places.

Well, you wouldn't take the subway. You'd hire a very expensive cab when someone who'd been there could say, oh, for a dollar, we can get there on the. On the subway.

Right, right.

You wouldn't do that. You'd be paying 40 bucks to get there in a cab because you're too, too afraid and too unknowledgeable.

And. And I think the reason people don't want to do it because somehow, you know, we don't have any shame to hire a tour guide to go to Europe or, you know, to go newer or anything else. But when it comes to this, it's like, I'll figure it out myself. You might eventually figure it out yourself, but if you do, it's going to be years and years and years of unnecessary heartache, probably wrong kinds of help supports, treatments that you're paying for that are not the right thing.

And you're going to be exhausted and depressed and so loaded with anxiety that you can barely drive a car at that point. Like, you might could, but the cost would be emotionally huge.

I'm really glad you said that, because you know how, like, Campbell, you know how a lot of people come to us after having done a lot of the wrong things. They paid a lot of money, they put a lot of time, years into all the wrong things. And then by the time they come to us and we're like, okay, we got it. So we want you to. They're too exhausted to do it, right? They're too tired. They're spent. They're done. And we're like, guys like, you came here, like, we're gonna get you out of this, but we need to do it. But they're just broken because they've spent so long.

That's so much money sometimes we can't afford.

Right. On all the wrong things. So. So the thing about this is, is don't be afraid. You know, whether you're dealing with addiction yourself or your family member is get yourself a tour guide, right? Like, join a group, any kind of group. I don't care. You know, get a counselor, something, someone that can help you get through this, and you'll get through it. 10 times faster for less money, less heartache, and come out the other side. It's not going to be easy, but you're going to come out the other side better, faster, if you'll just let yourself get some advice from someone. Yeah.

And just, Just put that shame in your pocket because there's no business being in this formula.

Right. And you wouldn't have it for anything else. Right. If you wanted to learn a new career or a sport, you. You wouldn't feel weird at all about getting yourself. No, I mean, or a mentor. Football.

You get a football coach. Exactly.

Right. Or you can just try to figure it all out on your own. Right?

You can, but you're probably never going to make a pro team.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a bad plan. Yeah. By the time you figure it out, you're going to be way too old to be on the pro team. That's right. So, Kimba, what are the best ways to find a God? Right. I mean, I think there are a lot of ways to do it. It doesn't have to be any certain thing, but you just need something.

Well, I think you just have to be open and you have to start talking about it and then go at it from a curiosity standpoint. That's the tricky part, though. I remember being early in this and like the pediatrician was like, we don't know. We've never heard of this. The church was like, don't call us again. I mean, I literally, you know, you know the stories. I literally looked up D for drugs in the Yellow Pages.

I know. I remember when you told me you called the doctor and you said, the doctor said, oh, we don't know. We've never had that. They never had a drug addict before. The doctor.

You've never had a drug addict. You're huge. Pediatric, really. But I said, I'll call you back when I figure this out. And I did. And they did listen.

Right.

So I think you just have to research and be open. Like, you know, the Internet's obviously a great tool for that and just sort of. There's a lot of, a lot of information out there, but you need to find a community.

Right. I was talking to one of, one of my clients this week and he doesn't go to any kind of like 12 step group or anything, but he's in these like, Reddit groups and he was talking about how helpful these Reddit groups are about like, he's trying to figure out how to taper off of the substance or whatever. And he's like. And I'VE read all these blogs about it, and I've. I mean, it's really been helpful to him. So even. Even if you don't want to go in and get a sponsor, if that's not your thing or whatever, there are ways to do it. We're just saying get yourself a God, right?

Yep. I think you were talking would say, make it easy on yourself.

Make it easy on yourself, right?

Yeah. You don't get a prize for making it hard.

Take the shortcut, people. Don't make it harder on yourself. And then. And then we could probably do a whole nother video about this. When you get your God, listen to your God.

Yeah.

That's a whole. That's a whole series right there, isn't it, Campbell? Yeah. Because your instincts are going to tell you. No, I don't think that part right there is right. Just like with. I always say this about people that have addiction. They come, you tell them what the deal is, you tell them how to fix it, and they. They either don't listen to you at all sometimes. Most time, they listen to you a little bit, but then they try to, like, find the little area that they don't like of what you said, and they're like, I think I'll just customize this part. I don't think I need to do that one little thing she said.

I think that's a really huge part of this is you have to check your ego because you're gonna have to get real humble and real willing to listen to hear. You're going to hear things you don't want to hear. You're going to be told to say, do acts in ways that you just think, I don't like that. But. And. And that's one thing I like about, like, our story is that the first night I met Amber, she was like, you need to come with me. You need to sit down, you need to listen, and you need to do exactly what I say. And God knows why I'm so anti that. But I was like, okay. Because I knew I was, like, in the deep end of the pool with no swimmies.

It was true. I got told I was like, this kid's mom about this, how to get him, and it's bad. I was like, you come with me. Don't look at him. You look at me. Look at me right here. It was that bad.

Yeah, but it. And that took a lot for, you know, me. It took a lot of humility and willingness for me to say, suck it up, buttercup. Listen to this child from Tennessee, who's telling you what to do?

Oh my gosh. Knowing you now, I can't believe you did. I'm shocked. Right, Right. I think you were telling me earlier that you made, you made a list of why people need to get help. You were telling me that last night about the list of if you don't, these kind of things are happening. Do you know what I'm talking about?

No, because I switched my gear. But if you don't, then you're gonna go with your intuition. If you don't, you're gonna, I'm afraid, waste money. If you don't, you're going to spend a lot of time and a lot of anguish. You're going to be like super depressed and your child is going to be getting worse and worse and worse. While you try to figure this out on your own, you're also going to be getting like a lot of conflicting information from well meaning family or friends. But that give so much confusion that you sort of spin because everyone's like, well, if you were mine, this is what I would do. Or what you really need to do is this, or why are you doing that? That doesn't seem smart. And so you sort of ping around like a pinball for a little bit there, which you know you're not getting anywhere. You're just bouncing. And time is of the essence in with this disease. Like as soon as you figure out what you got, like you need to figure out as fast as you can what you need to do to end it.

And most people, I think, do try to kind of feel their way around in the dark for quite a while before they say, okay, enough is enough, like I'm gonna.

Most people ping their way around in the dark for a little bit because they're trying to figure out what the hell's going on.

True.

So you don't have this like giant moment of epiphany. Immediately you're sort of like, what's going on with this, with my child? Like, what's happening? And then you make excuses and you rationalize and you justify it because you don't really ultimately want what is coming to your forefront of your brain. You don't actually want that to be the truth.

Right.

So when you start to say, like, I thought I had $20 in my wallet and everyone goes, oh, I didn't take it, you're like, maybe I lost it. So you sort of do your own rationalizing and justifying, which keeps you pinballing.

I mean, it's just such a parallel process, right? The same thing person. Right. It's like, first you don't realize you have the problem, and then it's like, okay, but it's not that bad of a problem. And then you're doing the bargaining and your family's doing the bargaining, and it's just a dance around and around you go. And it really is a parallel process. It's very much so.

But ultimately we have to be the people to initiate the change in ourselves so that our child will be able to start changing themselves. If we don't change, it's not going to end.

And when you're saying that, you're talking about we as in the family member, the parent, the spouse, the whoever.

Okay, right, exactly.

A lot of people think that that's strange, but I say this on our videos all the time. Kim was. I say, at least in our experiences, the chances of someone getting long term recovery hinge a lot more on how the family comes in the door to us than how the person comes in the door to us. Right. And, and I know this shocks a lot of people. I'm like, even the people that come in that call themselves, the person with the addiction calls them, I have a problem, I want to come in there. And then we make them an appointment if they come in, but the family won't come or the family can't be involved. That person's chances, even though they reached out themselves and they said they had a problem and they asked for help, their chances of getting better and staying better, like long term recovery, are much less than the people whose family member calls us who says, we need some help, they don't want to come. And we give them some tips and tricks on how to maybe eventually get them in to come. And that per. Those people end up getting long term recovery at a much higher rate than the people.

Sure. Because the family has the support to learn how to do and say what goes against their natural instincts. And, and a lot of times, like Amber always says, like, I'm in here with the crowbar because it's hard to get people to make that change. But if I didn't have the crowbar or they didn't have me with the crowbar, I don't know that they would make the change. And so they would just keep spinning.

Right. Because I always say, like, for the person that has the addiction, even if they really want it really badly, like, they seriously mean it, tomorrow they're not, and the next day they might, and the next day they might not. And so we need that family to be the consistency, the chances that the family can be consistent and steady and keep the train moving in the right direction, that's to me. For me, that's why if the family gets it, eventually, the person usually gets it. But it doesn't always happen in reverse. If the person gets it, doesn't mean the family will get it. It doesn't. It doesn't work backwards like that. But the good.

And it's just a whole lot easier to do if you've got a paid captain moving the sailboat through the water.

Right, Right. So I just saw a comment come on here. Somebody. Joelle says Campbell with a crowbar. It's a movement.

It'd be a great bumper sticker.

It should be your logo. Careful with the crowbars.

Cute crowbar.

Pink. It had to be pink crowbar.

Oh, that'd be awesome.

All right, let's see who's. Let's see who's with us and answer questions if you got a question, a comment, or concern. We got our expert here, Campbell. We don't always have her, so you guys take advantage. And before we get these questions, since we're talking about needing to have a support group, Campbell is starting her on her own parent support group. It's actually opening tomorrow for the very first founding members. Tell them what you're going to name it.

It's called the positive parenting group. Why are you unempowered?

That's right. Where parents aren't powerless. Because, see, that's our thing is we want you to know what you can do, not what you can't do, but what you can do. And so if you're interested in that, let me see if I can post up here the link to get on the list, because I got the wrong. I'll post it in the comments when we're finishing in the description. But if you want in that group, you got to get in before the 19th, because doors are going to shut after that. So if you want in and you want Campbell to help you out, make sure you get your name on that list sometime in the next few days. All right, let's see our comments. We have Haley up here who gave us a super nice comment, and she says it's not really a question, but she says, thank you for all your amazing work you do on your channel. I came across your videos while I was trying to detox for the umpteenth time. I couldn't stay clean for more than 30 days, and your videos have helped me make it seven months without a relapse. I use Your videos as a tools to guide me. And with your help and God, I am fighting today. That just makes my. Haley. That's so sweet. See, Haley is telling you guys, you got to get a guide of some sort. Right? Like, you can try on your own. Like, she's saying the umpteenth time, trying to figure it out. Or you could just get a God, and you'll probably. It's not like there won't be any ups and downs, but you'll get there a lot faster. Thank you for that, Haley. That was super sweet.

Congratulations.

Yeah, it's amazing. I really need to find a group. This is from New Moon Belly Dance. The counseling has gone a long way, but now my son is asking for help again, and it's very hard saying no and seeing how bad things have gotten for him. So I think Newboon Belly Dance. She's just saying, you know, sometimes you need the advice and sometimes you just need the support. Right. You have to make those hard decisions, and you have to hold the hard lines. You really need someone to say, hold. It's okay. You're doing the right thing.

If I had a penny for every time I say, hang in there, I could sail around the world.

Yeah.

In a really expensive boat. Yeah. I mean, that's. And sometimes, like, I talked to a client today, and they're in crisis, and I was like, hang in there.

All right, here we go. This is from Aaron. Am I saying that right? Campbell? E. I don't know.

I don't have my glasses on.

It's E, R, I, N, N, E. Campbell is the verb, like the word wizard. Okay. Thank you. Both. If you can prevent access to the addictive substance, like video gaming in your home is slowing down the process or holding a boundary. So, like, I think. I think what Aaron is saying is if, like, let's say you're. You're dealing with a kid who maybe has video game addiction, if you prevent it in your home, are you slowing down the process or holding a boundary? And maybe she's saying preventatively, maybe, like a kid hasn't even gotten into it yet. That may be what she's saying.

I mean, I think it's. It's worth a shot, but they have friends that have them, and it. It's. It's not gonna. It's not gonna prevent it a hundred percent. It might slow it down.

Right?

It's like, you know, we didn't allow drugs in our house.

They found them, even they might could get it from their friend on the street. That doesn't mean you have it in the house.

We did not have weed in our house. But somebody somewhere gave it to them, right? Yeah.

Now, without knowing Aaron's situation, I will say this. If like, let's say you're dealing with a young person or whatever and they already have this like video game habit or obsession or whatever, if you try to clamp down on it really fast and you try to throw all the video games out the house or something, that's going to make it worse, I can tell you right now. So probably I would. We would need more details to really answer Aaron's question super effectively. Because it depends on are you trying to say like prevent it from happening or stop it once it's already started? Because it's almost like two separate. I would answer that differently.

I feel like she's saying prevent which maybe.

Right. But I will say this, Aaron, off the topic, I don't know how parents traveled and did stuff before the iPads. I literally don't. Not having any, like, stuff tapes in.

The, in like music.

Okay. I'm like, gotta give him an iPad for something. Oh my Lord. Veronica says connection is imperative in the whole recovery process. Period. Period. Amen. Say that ten more times. Veronica, you're so right. And Teresa says, get comfortable being uncomfortable. That's right. And if you, if you're, if you're struggling as a family member to get a support or go to counseling or Alan on or parent group or whatever it is that you think you should be doing and you're resisting it, if, if we haven't given you enough reasons, then do it to be a role model because you know, you want your loved one to do it. You know, you want them to go talk to someone and they don't want to do it and they think they can do it by themselves. So if nothing else we said about why you need to do it for you resonates, do it so that you can show your own humility and willingness to your loved one.

They do notice that for sure.

And, and I think especially when you go at it, we, this is how we coach families who maybe have like a loved one who's a little bit resistant to coming in, but they want them to come into our office. We say, listen, just say, hey, we're all going to go. This is a family process. This isn't just you. And we know we're doing wrong too, and we're going to work on it too. And that almost always gets them in the door. Just when you stop finger pointing and you say you know what? We're all need a little help.

Something's not going well. Let's figure this out.

Maybe it's a family thing or whatever. It really does help. Kerosene 1022 says. I've heard some people find sponsors that aren't good. I'm sure it's rare. How do you find good helpers? Should we look for certain things? I do think you should look for certain things. What things do would you advise Campbell for a sponsor?

I'm not as knowledgeable, but from like a. I mean, first of all, I think you need to see. Talk to people who are open to being curious about who you are and what your situation is, not just hammering home do these five things in my way or the highway. So I think it's that and you need to hear someone who listen to you and that you can relate to. I think relatability is probably the biggest thing. And sponsors are people. And there's going to be good sponsors, there's going to be bad sponsors. But the great news is you're not marrying your sponsor. You're just being sponsored by them so you can find a new one.

Right. And so one of the things I tell clients of mine to do, especially with the sponsor thing, is I say ask somebody to be your temporary sponsor.

Yeah.

Because then you don't feel like you've asked to marry them. Then you don't have to have a weird breakup conversation. But I love that.

But sponsors are used to being broken up with. It happens.

Oh yeah. But it just feels weird for the person doing the breaking up. You know, it feels. Makes you nervous or whatever. But what Campbell said. I loved what you said while ago about making sure you find somebody that listens to your situation. Because to me, I feel like you want someone that's been there before, but you want someone who can separate their situation from yours. Because a lot of times, whether it's with the family or with the person, if they get in like what you're saying, that they do these five things and not even listening to your situation.

No. And you have to be able to engage. I have to gauge all the time, like what can. What can these parents, what can their hearts tolerate? And then we have to work around what that is. So if I get and say here's what you need to do, but they can't tolerate it and that's not what they need to do at all.

Or they're not ready or whatever.

They're not ready or it would cause too much distress or cause marital strife or Whatever. I have to listen and figure out who they are and what they need as well as advise them. Like if, you know, sometimes I say from a counselor standpoint, I'm telling you this, this and this. From a parent standpoint, I hear you. So let's go with this, this and this and see how that works for you.

Yeah, but I think, I just think that's so important. If you're going to look for someone, look for someone that's really going to listen to your situation. Right. And not just immediately know all the answers and not take into account the variables that are specific to you. And if you're going to do that.

You might as well read a book. I mean, because exactly that doesn't work. So that's what that would be, is page nine says you should do this now. And there's no page nine.

Well, there is a page nine, but you might only be on page three.

You might not like page nine. You might want to skip it, go to 11 or go back to 2.

Say. Ashley says, after more than a decade of making issues, two rehabs, I went to therapy, attended Al Anon Naranon, and now understand boundaries. It took me a year in recovery to get here. I'm detaching. Thank you for that. Right. So she's saying a decade of trial and error. Finally she decides, okay, I'm just going to do it, the thing they've been telling me to do. And now within a year she's gotten it. And that's what Campbell means when she says shortcut. Right. This is the shortcut. Right. Thank you for that, Ashley. Mitch says, I don't know if there's any hope for my 42 year old son who's been addicted to drugs for 11 and a half years. Can he ever get clean? I'm exhausted trying to help him. What you think, what do you think for Mitch there?

I mean, I always say there's hope. 42 year olds are way tougher than 17 year olds because they, unless he lives at home and then maybe we could, you know, you could do it. But I always say there's hope. Like I don't ever think you should give up. I think you should figure out what you can do differently if there is anything and give it a whirl.

I say if someone's still in alive, you're still in the game. Right?

Yeah.

And it takes most people a bunch of years to figure it out. And if you look on our, our channel, Mitchell, we've got a whole playlist of people's stories just Telling their personal stories. And you can hear how many rehabs and how many times it actually takes and, and how many years it takes to get there. So if, if you're saying if he's 42, is that what it's been, 11 years? It means he didn't even get addicted until he was in his 30s.

Right.

Which tells me, Mitch, that he actually, that's a good thing because if he had gotten addicted when he was 14, then you're dealing with somebody who's like emotionally really 14 years old. Right. So you're dealing with an adult who actually has adult skills and later in life developed an addiction. So I actually think that that works in your favor to some degree because there's some maturity there underneath that addiction, some wisdom and those kind of things. Barbara says, I love that statement. What they can tolerate. I'm such an empathetic person. Tough love. Trau. Yeah. You have to make people where they are. Right?

Yeah, that's.

Yeah, yeah. I'm like, like you said, if you want to be a professional football player, but you're on the little league team, you can't go to professional football camp. You have to start somewhere. That's right.

But if you're, if your leg is sprained and the coach is screaming, run, get a first down and you physically can't, then, then the coach needs to hear, oh, this is the wrong person. Be screaming, get the first down. I need to say, why don't you sit and rest, you can play tomorrow. Let's, let's put your leg in the ice, whatever, so we can get you ready to run the first down.

And that goes back to what you were saying, Campbell, about person that's going to listen to your situation. Right. All right. Surfer girl says husband is a functioning alcoholic for over 20 years, refuses detox. Can he get sober without going to a 30, 60 or 90 day program?

Yep. He might be really good on a sober link. He might be really good with just connecting with some other guys like, of his ilk that are doing the same thing.

Yeah, right. We have a lot more success with the husbands and the wives getting sober without going to treatment than we do. The younger, the younger people like the, the college kids and the teenagers and stuff like that, a lot of them end up needing to go at least a sober living. Not all the time, but most of the time, but a lot of the, the grown ups that have jobs and stuff like that, and they finally get to the point they can do it without going to treatment. Not all the time, but we have better.

Their life is unmanageable enough that can shift them into the action stage of change and then they can actually do it. I mean they're going to need like some help, like counseling, sponsor somebody.

But yeah, most of the, the grown up alcoholics that come into our office do get sober without ever having to go to like 30, 60 or 90 treatment. Like it's rare that they ever have to go off and do that. If, if they're willing to come in and they're willing to work on it can be done like in an outpatient program or, or something like that. So there's definitely hope. All right guys, make sure you check out. If you are a parent and you need the support you don't have it, make sure you check out the positive parent group. I'm going to put the link for you in the comments and in the description. And up next I have some more videos full of Campbell wisdom. Make sure you check it out because she's got a lot of stuff and she's got a lot of crazy metaphors. So listen for those.

I got.