TALKING TO CHILDREN ABOUT A LOVED ONE'S ADDICTION (Helpful vs. Hurtful)

Going to talk about what to tell children, how to tell children, when to tell children. We're going to cover all of those things today when you've got an addiction in your family. So let's bring Kim on. She's backstage right now. We're going to bring her up here with us. And if you're watching on the replay, then feel free to ask questions in the comments, and either Kim or myself will go back through and answer them in case you don't get your question answered. Hey, Kim. Welcome.

Thank you.

So I thought, Kim, if it's okay with you, we would sort of look at this topic in a couple of different ways. One is if we're talking about the parent has an addiction and there's kids in the house, or if an older sibling has an addiction and they're younger, like brothers and sisters in the house, I think, too, probably. Also the other category I think is there's a lot of grandparents out there raising children whose parents. I think the information will be the same in that circumstance as it is if the parent is. But I just want to. There may be some special questions about that. Sure. Hey, Hattie. Welcome. Glad to see you here. Heidi says she's been waiting for today. She's been waiting. So you. The pressure's on. You better bring it. So I think the first thing to talk about is why do you even need to have this conversation at all? Like, do you need to why? So talk to us a little about that.

You know, that's a hard question. A lot of parents kind of go back and forth like, do I even need to tell my kid this? Because it's natural for us to want to protect our kids from anything, especially if someone in the family is struggling from addiction. So the. The why is basically to alleviate any anxiety that the kid. That the kid has, because kids know way more than we give them credit for. And so it's just to alleviate the anxiety and to also, you figure addiction lives in shame. It grows in shame. And so if we're not talking about something that's obvious in the family, then we are contributing to the shame by accident.

Right. And so, and you said something earlier when we were talking about this, you were saying something about in the absence of information. Will you say that for us? Because I thought that was really relevant.

In the absence of information, we as people create information. And so if mom or dad is coming home drunk and I don't know what that is, then my child brain is going to create a reason for that, which is most likely going to then contribute to further anxiety.

Right. I like to think of it almost like rumors when you're in high school, right. If somebody's like, something goes on and people don't know what it is, they'll just make up stories. And it's usually like, worse than the truth, you know, it's usually like really out there. So I think if we don't tell kids what's going on, they're going to decide it for themselves and who knows what their little brain is going to come up with about that.

Right?

Okay. Is when do you. When do you have this conversation?

When?

Now, I think.

I think the when is almost as hard as the how, but the win is basically just when it's obvious. And so. And the part that makes this hard, though, is that we, as the other adult in the family that knows that this is happening, we become desensitized to it sometimes or we become hyper vigilant to it.

So.

And that's what makes it kind of dicey.

But.

But the win is basically just when it's obvious. When the kids have seen. The kids have seen something, they've been exposed to something that just doesn't make sense. So you have to give clarity to them.

Right. Seeing something like the person being intoxicated or seeing maybe some fighting or arguing in the house about it, or maybe that person is all of a sudden missing because they went to treatment or they left or, you know. Yeah, totally.

The other thing I just kind of want to throw out on that too is there's a really good scene in 28 Days, that super old movie with Sandra.

I love it. Love that one. Classic.

And so in that, in that movie, Sandra Bullock talks about the fact that she remembers her mom, who was an alcoholic, being really fun and exciting and just a great time. And the older sister remembers a total different picture because she was older. And so I think talking about like the why and the when, that movie really speaks to that. Because had these kids had a conversation, their. Their memories of that would be different.

That's a really good point. I didn't think about that, but it makes perfect sense. And it even makes perfect sense that the older ones saw it different because that the oldest sibling probably is taking on a parentified role. So that makes sense. And I know when I grew up in an addictive family, that's probably. I probably thought more like what the little one thought, even though I was the oldest. It's more like I just have the cool parents. That's what I thought. I didn't realize it was even a problem. Yeah, I thought I was kind of lucky.

I have fun parents, right.

Everyone would come to my house. Okay. All right, so we're getting some questions, Kim, but what I'm going to do is I'm going to let you go through some of your explanation first, and then I'm going to put some of these questions up just so we don't get our ADD brains all scattered.

That's a good plan.

Okay, so tell us a little bit about how to have this conversation, because that's the meat of the matter.

The how is definitely speak to your own child. And so what I mean by this is speak to their age, speak to their emotional maturity. Speak to what they need. If you have a kid that runs pretty anxious, then you want to speak to. You want to speak to the calming part as far as, like, you know, your mom or dad is. Is really. They're struggling with an illness right now. They're sick. And this doesn't mean that they don't love you. This doesn't mean that I'm not going to keep you safe. This doesn't mean that they're going to, you know, this doesn't mean terrible, horrible things. So if your kid runs a little bit more critical and they're constantly saying, you know, I don't like my dad, he's this, he's that, he's that, then being able to kind of come in and say, you're right, he's definitely let you down. Like, you're in a really hard spot. Like, I'm sorry, he's not making your baseball games. Like, this is hard, your dad is sick. But it doesn't mean he doesn't love you, you know, and you want to speak to your child. Age needs.

The things you're saying is kind of like validate their point of view. But also I want to say normalize the situation is what I want to say. But then I don't want to say that because it's not a normal situation.

I like what you said earlier, which is customize it. Okay.

Customize the situation. There you go. Yeah, yeah. But. But maybe let them know that this happens in a lot of families and that people get better from this. And because like you said, I think if you have an anxious child, like I think about my son, who gets. Who worries about things too much, silly things. And so you would have to be so delicate, I think, talking to him, because he would just obsess and get something crazy in his head, I think.

Right. Yeah. Which also speaks to the why are you having that conversation? Because a child that's wired like your child, if you don't have that confirmation, he's going to run wild, whatever he sees, and it's going to make the anxiety even worse. So the other thing I want to add into that is make sure you let him know what you're doing, what you're doing. And so kids don't, you know, they don't, they don't need to be, they don't need to be in the planning stages at all, but they do need to know something's being done. And so, you know, and again, bring it down to their language, but let them know what's being done.

That just reminded me of something, right. When you said that, Kim, because with a lot of the families, I think, particularly when it's a sibling, when you, if, if the family gets to the point where they're like, you can't stay here anymore. I usually tell parents, like, you got to make sure you're on the same page. And if the kids are old enough, if they're siblings, you probably want everybody to be on the same page because the kid could view it as like, you kicked my brother out, you kicked my sister out. They're like on the street. And then that creates this whole other crazy dynamic in the family where the other siblings are just so they don't understand and they're, they're furious with the parents and stuff like that. So how much do you feel like kids should be involved in decision making around?

I don't think that they should be involved too much in the decision making, but I do think that their points need to be heard. And so the actual decision making, I think that needs to come from the parents. But let's say that there's, I don't know, let's say we've got a 17 and a 15 year old and the 17 year old is using. And let's say the 17 year old is stealing from the 15 year old. The 15 year old needs to know, hey, are you taking care of me? You know, and if for whatever reason the parents are just kind of letting it roll until it gets really bad, then the 15 year old needs to know, look, we know he's doing this. We know this is happening. We are intentionally not addressing it for these reasons. Right. And you know, where they're involved enough because they have to be, but not to the point where the 15 year old is then deciding, okay, they crossed the line, you need to kick them out.

Right, right, right. I think you said something Right at the beginning of that thing, which was golden. And it was something about you said. I forget exactly how you said it, but, like, you need to let them know that you're going to take care of their needs, which I thought that was like, powerful because that's what the problem is, is that kids in addicted families don't get their needs met. That's what it is. You know, they. If it's their sibling, then all the attentions go into that and they fall into the background or sometimes they act out to get that attention met. It's about. Even though this huge crisis is in the family, it's important to remember. I love what you said. Just to make sure that they know that their needs matter too, and that their feelings are valid and that kind of thing. I like that.

And so, yeah, to kind of tag on to that, like, the safety. Because even no matter how mad siblings are at each other, they still want to know that their siblings safe. And so being able to say, I don't want to kick them out, like, it's the last thing I want to do. But, you know, this is why we're doing it if we choose to do it, you know, and kind of really, really emphasize this doesn't feel safe right now, but in the long run, this is a safer option.

Yeah. I think even when it's like what you said about, like, if it's there, even if they're mad at their sibling, they still know they're safe. I think that probably applies to. For any. Anytime it's your parent. Like, let's say, you know, if it's grandparents raising the kids and the parents are just not involved, it's so important to sort of make sure that kid knows that, you know, their parents not evil. I always say, you know, never talk bad about a kid's parent. Never tell a kid bad things about a parent. Regardless, dictionary just not good for them. Yeah. Let's put some questions up here. Give me one second. I'm put them up here. And I don't know if you can see them. Good. So I'll read them to you. Hey. Hey, Flapjack. Thanks for joining us. Okay. Melissa says my chill. My children have the addiction and now it affects the grandkids.

Right.

I think it just makes it, like, so much more complicated when you have kids in the mix, especially if it's like they. If the addict has kids.

Yep.

It makes it super complicated. Heidi says my grandchildren are experiencing this right now and blaming themselves for things that are going on. It's really killing me. As a grandma, do you have any advice for Heidi on that?

That kids. I'm gonna, like, keep this as minimal as possible. But kids that have been traumatized or experiencing trauma, it's natural for them to blame themselves because it gives them a false sense of control. And so an example of this would be if dad comes home and he's really mad and he starts yelling and screaming and throwing things, then my little kid brain would be like, oh, maybe I had the TV up too loud. Next time dad comes home, I just won't have the TV on. And so you have, like, repeated patterns of this and the kid. All they're trying to do is get safety and control in a situation that they don't have any control in. They don't have any safety.

Right.

So this really speaks to why you have the conversation to be able to say, when dad comes home and he's yelling and screaming, it's not you. You know, he's sick right now, and there's nothing you can do to make that stop. We just need to figure out how to make you feel better in those situations, rather you're not there, you know, or whatever. But that. That's why. That's what's going on. They're trying to find control.

Do you advise maybe like, coming up. I just had a thought as you're saying that. But like, coming up almost with, like, a safety plan, like how you do with kids, if you say if there's ever a fire in the house and real. Almost.

No, I think that that's a wonderful plan. When you have little kids that, you know, like what she's talking about, where it's her grandchildren and being able to say, you know, let's figure out when maybe, you know, you need a little help or any of that, because you want to empower them and not to the point where they. They feel that it's their job to fix it and also reiterate that you can't fix this. Like, this is. This is not a fixable problem from you.

Right. So that it just takes the ownership off of that. That little one. Because they will. They'll. They'll try to. They'll either think it's their fault. Even if they don't think it's their fault, they'll still try to fix it. And they learn all these adaptive mechanisms because they become really, like, in tune with their environment because they're watching because you. Because it's that eggshells thing, and you don't. You don't know what's going to Happen on any given day. So you start paying attention and monitoring, adjusting to that. Yeah, yeah. Let's see. Candace has a question. Need advice for letting a child go to the addicted spouse's house for the weekend? How do I address this and not be the bad guy? And she says no sober link. Agreed to.

Okay.

Tell us how old your kid is. Sorry, go ahead. I'm just. Not that matters, but go ahead, Kim.

No, I think the age definitely matters.

Yeah. You can go ahead and answer, though, and it'll take a little bit, and then we'll probably get. I would say.

I would say be. If the child is old enough to understand what's going on, be able to say, I really want you to be able to go see your dad. Like, I really. I know that that's important. However, my number one job is to keep you safe. And as you know, your dad is sick right now. And so if this is a safety issue, then as much as I don't want to not let you go, I can't let you go. But he's, you know, and then even be able to give, like a contingency plan if the dad is willing to do it. If you want to go over to, you know, if your dad wants to come here, I can go work in the yard for a couple hours. If, you know, you want to go over to, like, dad's, you know, grandparents house or whatever, I'm totally fine with that. As long as grandparents are there, you know, you can definitely open up a door for a contingency plan. While keeping safety is number one.

Right. Safety always has to trump everything else above what's therapeutic. Above everything else. When there's a safety issue. And that's, you know, those are where it gets really complicated when there's kids. Let's see here. Sue says, my daughter lost custody of her children, which we raised for seven years. Their dad tells the kids every time she would relapse. Isn't that bad for them?

Yes, it is.

Yeah. I think that goes back to tell them when it's obvious.

Yep.

If they're seeing it. Yeah. Then maybe say it. Yeah.

Right. And. And adults have a tendency, if they don't realize it, that they. They put their own anger and their own fear out in their verbal messages, which then the kids hear. So in that situation, maybe that's a going on. It's, well, she's just going to relapse. She's just going to relapse. Where that's your own fear and your own concern. But you don't know that and going back to what you said, you never say anything bad about someone's parents ever.

Right. Because they internalize that. Mean, if your parents are bad inherently, you come from your parents, so it says something about who you are. And so it's just such a tricky thing. Let's see here. Candace says that her child is 10. So 10 kind of is old enough, like, to pick up the phone and call you to kind of know if something looks wrong. So I feel like, like, that's a little better than if they were, like, four or three or something where they don't have that ability. Right. Can I invite her dad to stay here for the weekend for safety? What do you think about that?

I think that could go either way. I think as long as you set the parameters up and everybody knows that it's just a weekend stay and kind of where you're gonna be and where the dad's gonna be and just kind of what that looks like. Like, I think it's completely fine as long as the stage is set beforehand.

Yeah.

I think if the stage is not set, you could be walking into a tricky situation.

Yeah, probably too. It kind of depends on what your. What your relationship is like with them, Candace. And if you're remarried. I don't know if you're remarried, but that could be kind of weird. I guess it's kind of, like, different for the situation. But if it's. If you got a good relationship with them and. And he's okay with that, I feel like that's probably. Is a good solution to help you feel safe. Yeah. Yeah. Sue says yes. She agree he talks negatively. Yeah, he's probably projecting, like Kim said, his own feelings under the kid. And then someone asked earlier. I don't think I put it up here. Kim, Someone see if you counsel children or talk to children about this, depending.

On how old the child is. I have younger kids do better in, like, a place play therapy set up, which I don't have, so. But like middle. I don't know, like middle school age. And so I think yes, but for the most part, a play therapist is better for younger kids.

That's a good point. And if you don't know what a play therapist is, it's like. It's just what it sounds like. It's like with little kids. Some therapists have their office set up, and it has all these, like, really fun toys and stuff in it, and they can draw or play, and the counselor will just play with them, and they just have casual conversation with them. And so it doesn't even feel like some kind of formal something. It feels like a play date. But the counselor can ask questions and talk very casually, not in an awkward way. And that's a way to help smaller kids. Let's see. What do y' all think about calling children's services or the police on your addicted daughter who has children? Oh, that's a biggie.

That is a biggie. I think that goes back to safety first. I mean, if the kids are in, if it's a safety issue, then you don't really have a choice not to call. If you're looking for this, will. This will open their eyes to what's going on, then I don't think that's a good reason to call because that generally doesn't open their eyes to what's going on. But if it's safety, then yeah, I like that, Kim.

That's a really good way to make that decision. It's kind of a little formula. If you're just doing it to, like, as a wake up call to person. Probably not. If you're genuinely concerned. Probably so. Even if they get mad at you. Yeah. Heidi says yeah. You're not kidding. Kim, any last words of advice or feedback about this topic?

Yes. Which actually just came in my head right as you were saying that I think it's super important, and I tell all my clients that are struggling with, with this to make sure that you are in a good place and you are comfortable with the message and the information that you need to give your kids, because they are going to. They're going to take the temperature from you, and it's okay to be a little bit nervous and it's okay to say that. It's okay to say, you know, I don't really know how to have this conversation, but I'm gonna do the best I can. But you need to have this information because you're part of this family and I want you to feel safe, and it's my job to keep you safe and so give you this information as part of that. But you need. You need to make sure that you set the tone, that you are safe and you are important. And so if you come into the conversation mad, angry, resentful, tearful, your kid's gonna not hear the message that you're saying with your words, and they're just gonna hear the other message, which is gonna make them feel bad. Right.

Or make them feel like they need to take care of you.

Right?

Right. Yeah. So it's almost like you have to be in a healthy Enough place to have the conversation. Yeah, that's really good advice. Go ahead.

I always compare it to, like, you figure this is like a storm, and so you have to be the buoy in the ocean. You have to be a place that they can tether their boat, and that's your job.

Kim, the family has to do everything. All the. It's all their job. Not. They always have to be the strong one. I know.

It's so unfair.

I was talking to this. This guy a couple weeks ago. He called, and he's. His wife had problem with alcohol and. And they had small children. And I think there had been an episode a year or two prior where she had gotten intoxicated and made this, like, video on her phone, like, explaining that she had this problem and stuff and sent it to the kid. So the kid kind of knew something already, but then the mom kind of fell back into the bad behaviors, and she kept asking the dad, like, what was going on. And he didn't know what to say. That's what he was asking me, should he say. And he kept trying to say, not address the topic with the kid and the kid. And he would say, I don't want you to worry. And the kid would say, but I'm already worried. And to me, that. That says you have to address it. You don't have to give them more information that's necessary. They don't need any gritty details. I think the point they need to know is that it's an illness.

That.

The person doesn't mean to have that problem. Some of those kind of things that kind of neutralizes a little bit.

Yeah. And that you, as the other powerful person in the family, you see it, you've got your eye on it, and it's being handled in some way or another.

Let's see. Hold on. We got a question. Hold on.

Wait.

I lost it. Here it is. What if the child responds from the talk saying they wish they were a toddler Again.

I would ask them why. I would really investigate what they're looking for. Going back to speaking to their needs, like, what are they looking for in that? And then speak to that.

And the way you might get to that is you might say something like, what would be different if you were a toddler? And the answer to that is going to tell you what the. Why they're saying that, what the need is. You know, it's like, because then I don't even have to know all this, or because, you know, you and I were together when I, you know, we're a toddler or this problem wasn't here then or something like that. You'll kind of know where that's coming from.

Right?

I like that poop emoji, Candace. Okay. Heidi says, Amber. I joined the family recovery academy and watched all the videos. My husband's amazed how I'm able to speak to our addicted daughter. Yeah, it makes the biggest difference. Yeah, it's going to make the whole family relationship so much better if you can get out of that bad guy roll. All right, Kim. I think we're gonna have to let Kim go because she's pretty in demand, and she's got a session coming up. But thank you for talking with us. I'm gonna put a link in the description in case you want to ever schedule any kind of consultation with Kim. She's. She's the best. Thank you.

Thank you. Bye.