The Exact Moment Helping Turns Into Rescuing

You pay their rent. You give them a ride because they lost their license. You help them find treatment. You let them stay with you because they have nowhere else to go. You step in and you help clean up some mess that they, like, let's say they just definitely made themselves. We'll just say that. And then you didn't even have a hand in creating, but you're the one cleaning it up. So are you helping or are you rescuing? Because here's what makes this whole thing confusing. You can't tell just by looking at the action. Paying someone's rent, it could be helping. It could also be rescuing. Giving someone a ride could be helping, or it could slowly turn into you being an Uber carrying all the emotional baggage. And refusing to help ever with anything can become, you know, you're thinking in your mind, I will not enable them no matter what, but that isn't necessarily healthy either. So today I want to help you find the actual line, the actual moment between helping and rescuing. And I'm going to give you 5 questions that will help you run your helping idea through the test to figure out what's really happening. So is this actually helping or is it rescuing? Or sometimes it's actually just control wearing a very respectable little boundary outfit, all dressed up nice. It looks like a healthy boundary, but it's not because that happens a lot more than people realize. They think that they're doing the healthy boundary thing, but It actually kind of falls over on what I call the other person's side of the street. And later in this video, I'm going to challenge a piece of advice that a lot of families have been told that this is what a healthy boundary is, because it sounds responsible. It sounds reasonable. And you may have even been encouraged to do it by a professional, someone in the treatment field. And I think sometimes it puts you right back into trying to manage the other person's life. So there may be some disagreement about this one. We'll do that one. So hang in there for that. So we're going to come back to that. And I'm also saving the question. I told you there are 5 questions. I'm going to save the one that I personally use the most for the last because it kind of dictates all the other 4. It can override all the other 4 if you put a yes on this one. So the question is, can you rationalize your way through these first 4? Right. It tends to expose the truth pretty fast when you put these questions to the test. So let's start with number 1. Whose responsibility am I taking over? Right? Whose responsibility am I taking on right now? Because you may think, it may feel like, or I guess I'll say your loved one may have an ability where they've gotten really good at it and you don't even know that they're doing it where they're They're making their problems become your problems, and it can be hard to tell the difference. Now, notice what I ask here. I'm not asking whose problem is upsetting me. Okay? Those are 2 different things. Your adult child can lose their job, but is that primarily their problem? But then your brain goes, oh my gosh, the rent, the car payment, the insurance. What if they lose the apartment? What if they spiral? What if they— You know, fill in the blank. And then 5 minutes later, their problem has opened like a full corporate headquarters inside of your brain. It starts taking over everything. Now that doesn't automatically make it your responsibility. One of the cleanest distinctions between helping and rescuing is this: helping supports ownership. Rescuing transfers that ownership. That's the pattern. If they have the problem, but you are making all the phone calls, you're researching all the options, all the options, you're making the apologies, you're keeping track of the deadlines, you're waking up, you're arranging their transportation, you're explaining the situation to everybody. At some point you need to ask yourself who actually owns this problem, because you may have subconsciously, quietly become the executive assistant to somebody else's consequences. And like I said, some people are really good. They do this without even knowing. They make their problem your problem. And guess what? You don't want to take on that job because those jobs pay terribly. There's a big difference between, I found 3 counselors, here are their names, and I called 14 counselors, checked their availability, verified their insurance, booked the appointment, put it on the calendar, reminded you 3 times, and now I'm driving you over there because apparently I'm also your wake-up service. Those are not the same thing. So the first test is, am I supporting them while they handle their responsibility, or am I taking that responsibility away from them? If you've ever caught yourself working harder on someone else's problems than they are, put a number 1 in the chat. Let me know that there's some of you out there I'm talking to. I'm talking to the right audience. I have a feeling that a few of you are going to know exactly what I'm talking about. Now, test 2, the second test is what actually happens? Oops, I got to move my notes here. What actually happens if I don't help? This is an important question because families who've lived in addiction for a while get very good at catastrophic forecasting. In fact, we like to say when you have an addicted loved one, like if it's your spouse or your child, you get sort of PTSD. And that almost makes your brain go into this catastrophic fight or flight moment. Everything feels like if I don't fix this immediately, civilization is going to collapse. Probably not. You got to slow it down here. What actually happens? Maybe they get embarrassed. Maybe they have to make an uncomfortable phone call. Maybe they have to tell their boss what happened. Maybe somebody gets angry with them. Maybe they lose something. Maybe they have to figure out transportation. Maybe they have to Sit in the discomfort of the problem that they created. Those things can feel terrible, but a consequence is not the same thing as a safety emergency. And I really do want you to understand the difference, right? Because I'm not telling you to never intervene and let whatever happens happens, right? That's not the issue here. If somebody's overdosing or having like really dangerous withdrawal, Threatening suicide, driving your kids while they're impaired, being violent. There are children at risk somehow. There's a genuine medical emergency. We're not having a philosophical discussion about natural consequences because those are the situations where I always say safety comes first. If safety's an issue, you put everything I say aside. But a lot of rescuing happens because we confuse That something's going to be really uncomfortable with, this is unsafe. Those are not the same thing. So ask yourself this, if I didn't step in, are they actually in danger? Are they going to have to, or are they going to have to deal with something really difficult? You got to be able to tell the difference in these situations. And sometimes what we're calling an emergency is really just a consequence that we don't want to watch because it's painful, especially if you're like an empath person. You got to remember that because in a minute, we're going to have some more tests and you're going to need to apply that. Now, test number 3 is, is this temporary or am I going to be doing this forever? Right? So it's like helping somebody temporarily, or it's like, am I signing up for some kind of ongoing job description? The difference in those 2 things is huge because we typically are okay helping short-term, but not long-term, right? Because a lot of times the things are perfectly reasonable to do temporarily, right? To help someone out financially short-term, those kinds of things. Somebody loses their license and you give them rides, you know, that's okay. But somebody is sick, you pick up more responsibility around the house. Of course, right? That's what we do. Somebody gets blindsided with an unexpected— Accident. expense and we help them out once. That's fine. But temporarily has a sneaky habit of moving in, putting his feet up on the coffee table and becoming a permanent arrangement. So I want you to ask, if absolutely nothing changes, am I still willing to do this 6 months from now? That question clears Your head pretty fast, right? I'm just helping with transportation. Okay, but for how long? Because there's a big difference between I can drive you to work this week and I can now arrange my entire life around getting you everywhere that you need to go because you lost your license 9 months ago. The action is technically the same, right? You're giving someone a ride, but the pattern is different. Here's a phrase I want you to remember. Help should have a direction. Healthy help generally moves towards something, more stability, more ownership, more competence, more functioning, more independence. When help becomes an indefinite maintenance system, like forever, then that's when I start to look at it differently. And here's another thing that's really important. I'm not saying you need to tell them exactly how to fix the problem. In fact, that brings us very close to the surprising boundary issue I told you we were going to come back to. Not yet. We're still coming to that though. We've got one more test that you got to run your, am I helping question by before we do that? That is test number 4. What does my help make more likely to happen next time. This is where intentions can really mess you up because we tend to evaluate help based on why we did it. I did it because I love them. I believe in you. That tells me something. Yeah, that's important. That tells me about your heart, but it doesn't necessarily tell me what the behavior is reinforcing. You can have excellent intentions And accidentally create a really terrible pattern. So ask yourself, does my help make it easier for this person to take ownership, solve the problem, follow through, build competence, handle the next situation better? Or does my help really kind of quietly teach That when someone becomes, when something becomes painful enough, somebody eventually takes over. Is that what I'm training them? That's why I don't particularly love the blanket rules like never give them money, never drive them, never let them stay with you, never help with legal expenses. Real life isn't quite so black and white. It's not that tidy. If it were that easy, you wouldn't actually need to watch this video. You could just buy a refrigerator magnet that says don't enable, right? It would be that simple. Problem solved. But the question isn't just, what did I do? The question is, what pattern is this creating? Paying somebody's rent one month after an unexpected job loss might be a generous, healthy step. Paying their rent month after month while absolutely nothing changes is a different thing. Giving somebody rides while they're arranging another transportation plan. That's really helpful, right? I've had plenty of times when my car was in the shop and workmates gave me a ride to work, right? But becoming somebody's permanent chauffeur because nobody's ever had to solve the problem, that's a different thing. So now we've got your 4 questions. Whose responsibility am I taking over? What happens if I don't step in? Is this temporary or ongoing? And what is this help reinforcing? Those are your 4. Now, let's go back to the thing I told you might surprise some of you, right? The good boundary that might actually look like— the good boundary that looks like a good boundary, but it's actually control, right? A lot of families have been told to attach conditions to their help. Something like, I'll help you pay rent, but you have to sit down and make a budget with me. It sounds responsible, right? Or like, I'll give you rides, but you need to start attending meetings. Or you can stay here, but I want to see your plan for getting back on your feet. Okay, I completely understand the logic here. You don't want to just keep helping indefinitely. You don't want to make things easier for the addiction. Obviously you want accountability, but here's where I think people sometimes cross the line without realizing it. A healthy boundary defines my participation. It does not prescribe your solution. That's the distinction. And that part's super important, right? A boundary says, this is what I'm willing to do. It doesn't say, and here's exactly how you must fix your problem in order for me to be okay. So I want to help you with $500 towards this month's rent, and I won't be able to do that again next month. You see how clean that is? You've defined your participation. What they do about next month actually belongs on their side of the street. Maybe they make a budget. Maybe they get another job. Maybe they get a roommate. Maybe they move. Maybe they borrow money from someone else. Maybe they do absolutely nothing and run smack into another problem in a month. You don't get to choose their solution. Compare that with, I'll pay your rent, but first I need to see your budget, your bank account, your spending, your meetings, your When you're going to work, how many hours you're working, how many jobs you've applied for, that kind of thing. Because now your help has become the steering wheel. I know it sounds good on the surface. I know other people may have told you to do that, but really that's you doing what I call getting over in someone else's lane because you're not just deciding what you will do in that situation. You're using the help to try to make them live differently. And this is This can be really tricky, right? Because you could think, I'm just holding a strong boundary. But sometimes what's actually happening is you're trying to basically purchase or leverage or force compliance. And it's not the same thing as a healthy boundary. This is why boundaries are so confusing because control can put on a suit and a tie and a nice dress and some high heel shoes. And it sounds really responsible. It looks good. Other people may, you may go to your Al-Anon meeting and get a high five. I don't know. All right. But there are absolutely, you know, there are reasonable conditions about protecting your resources safely. For example, I'm willing to pay the landlord directly. I'm not giving you cash. That's about how I'm willing to use my money. You can borrow my car if you have a valid license. That's about my car and my liability, right? That's like protecting myself. You can stay in my home, but you can't bring that addicted mess in here and have negative effect on my kids. That's about your home, your safety, your children. Those are limits around your participation, your property, your safety, your resources. Those are different things. But when you say you can stay here as long as you attend 3 meetings a week, apply for 5 jobs a day, show me your bank account, give me your passwords and let me monitor everything. That may sound really good. I know other people may have told you to do that, but in my opinion, when you do that, you're kind of like appointing yourself CEO of someone else's recovery. You're moving into their South Street. And Nobody asked for that promotion. Trust me, you don't want to be CEO of someone else's recovery. It's too much work. And like I said, it doesn't pay good. So here's the question I want you to use. Does this condition define what I'm willing to do or does it define what they have to do? That's a really useful way to tell whether you're holding a healthy boundary or you're trying to manage somebody else's sobriety. So now we need to talk about why this whole thing is so hard. It sounds good, right? My 5 little questions. Sometimes rescuing is not primarily about protecting them from their discomfort. Sometimes it's about protecting us for having to watch them be uncomfortable. That's what's really going on. That one kind of hits home, right? You're Their anxiety makes your anxiety worse, right? Their anxiety makes you anxious. They're panicking. And now you're panicking because they're panicking. They don't know what they're going to do. And now you can't sleep because they don't know what they're going to do. And then your brain realizes, I could fix this. And the second you fix this, it's like, ah, everybody can breathe again. But your nervous system learns when you do this, like you're training your nervous system that when they become distressed, I have to solve it in order for me to feel okay. That is a brutal trap that you do not want to get in. It almost turns into like an obsessive compulsive thing because now their discomfort becomes your emergency. And it's not going to take long before you're working harder on their life than they are. And that leads us to one of the most common things that I hear all the time. It's people say, but Amber, if I don't do it, they won't. Fair enough, right? Maybe they won't. That's important information that you need. A lot of times people think I'm saying, hey, set this healthy boundary because they'll step up. That's actually not what I'm saying. Set the healthy boundary and understand that they probably won't step up. If the only reason the appointment exists is because you found it, you booked it, you reminded them of it, you drove them to it, you talked them into going, you practically carried them through the door, you paid for it. Whose motivation is powering that process? Yours, right? Now, I'm not saying you never help someone get started. You guys know if you've watched a lot of my videos that I encourage you to help make some of the appointments, right? But it's just that you don't want to do every single step. You want to put something in their lane. Right. Reducing the friction, it can make it extremely useful because when someone has an addiction, they really sometimes aren't capable of making 400 calls to the insurance company and that kind of thing. But you just don't want to turn into the permanent engine, the only motivation that's running the show. Think of it like this. You can give the engine some fuel, you can help jumpstart it, but you cannot strap yourself to the hood and drag the car down the interstate. Indefinitely forever, because that ends badly for everyone. Helping can absolutely mean doing things for someone. Now, I want to make sure that no one comes home and becomes wildly unhelpful. Like you watch this video and then all of a sudden you change all the rules immediately on a dime. Healthy people help each other. That's what families do, right? That's what friends do. Of course they do. You can cook dinner for someone who's struggling. You can make a phone call. You can give somebody money. You can drive them somewhere. You can help research options. You can sit beside somebody while they do something scary. You can absolutely make it easier for someone that you love. The question isn't, did I do something for them? The better question is, is my help moving them towards functioning or is it making it easier for them not to function? When you make it easier for them not to function, that's how you get caught in doing the thing forever. That's when temporary becomes permanent. This is the line where we're trying to find, right? And now we get to that last question, number 5, the one I told you at the beginning was the most useful. Question number 5, ready? Here it is. Before you say yes, ask yourself this, am I going to resent doing this? Seriously, that question will tell you a lot. Ask, if I say yes to this, am I going to feel good about the kind of person I'm being, or am I going to resent them for putting me in this situation? Because healthy helping feels like I chose to do this. I'm glad I can help. This fits with my values. It might still be inconvenient, right? It might still cost you something. It might still even be annoying, but inconvenience Inconvenience and resentment are not the same thing. Rescuing often sounds like, fine, I guess I'll do it. Apparently nobody else is going to handle this. Here we go again. I know I shouldn't be doing this. Why is this always my problem? And then you say yes anyway. That's the little resentment clue right there, right? That's information. Sometimes it's not resentment though. Sometimes it's guilt, or sometimes it's guilt and resentment. You guys know I like to call that guilt resentment. And I don't necessarily mean guilt because you say no. Sometimes you feel guilty because you said yes when you already knew it was crossing your line, or you said you weren't going to do that again and you did. Your gut knew, but your mouth didn't catch up. And I want you to start checking the resentment before you say yes. Don't wait until 3 days later when you're stomping around the house, making little biting comments and thinking, I can't believe they expect this from me. Or, well, you agreed to it. That doesn't mean you beat yourself up. It just means that you learn to notice the signal earlier. When you allow someone to cross your boundaries over and over, you may think you're protecting the relationship, but you're not. You end up feeling resentful. You get passive-aggressive or just aggressive, or you shove things down and everything volcanoes out and a bunch of mean things that you say or do, or you go from 0 to 100 and it will end up ruining your relationship with that person in the end. And even before you ruin your relationship with that person, you're going to like bog yourself down all the way in between because you're going to feel bad about it. Absolutely nothing about the situation changes. This is what you gotta ask yourself. If nothing changes, will I still feel okay About having said yes. Here's another one that I really love. Am I giving this freely or am I secretly expecting this help to change them? Because sometimes help comes with a little invisible invoice, right? We don't say it up front, but we kind of expect it to be there. I'll do this for you, but inside my head, It's like, and you better appreciate me and you better quit drinking and you better make smarter decisions or smarter choices. And then you better finally see, you better finally see everything that I've done for you and appreciate me. Now we're entering a contract that the other person Doesn't really know that they're signing. They don't even know the contract exists. And that is really fertile ground for resentment. So if you remember nothing else from today, don't wait until you're resentful to discover your boundary. Check for your resentment before you say yes. So when you're trying to figure it out, am I helping or am I rescuing? Am I enabling? Am I actually trying to control this? Run it through the 5 questions. Number 1, whose responsibility am I taking over? Am I supporting ownership or transferring ownership? Number 2, what actually happens if I don't step in? Is this danger or is it discomfort? Number 3, is this temporary help or is this an ongoing permanent full-time job? If nothing changes, am I willing to keep doing this 6 months from now? Number 4 is, what is my help reinforcing? Is it building capacity or making it easier for them to not function? And finally, number 5, am I going to resent this? If your whole body is screaming, I do not want to do this, before your mouth says yes, pay attention. You may have just found the line. Most people don't rescue because they're weak. They rescue because they care. They're scared. And usually they can, they can see 5 steps ahead. You know exactly what could and probably will happen next. And then what could happen after that. So you start solving every step of their problem before the other person Even has dealt with step 1. If you continue to solve all the steps for them, they never get a chance to build the muscle that requires them to solve any of the steps. And if Campbell were here, she would tell y'all you're robbing them of their chance to build their serotonin and feel proud of themselves. That's the only way people feel like positive self-esteem. We're taking that away from them. And let me add this in here. The bad part about all this is you do all that for them and they'll end up resenting you for it. And you're like, what the crap? I did everything. How am I the bad guy? But that's exactly what can happen. The goal isn't to love them less, right? It's not to become cold. It's not to stand there smugly while somebody suffers and say, well, consequences. That's not really what I'm talking about. I'm trying to, I'm kind of laughing here because I was thinking of something that you hear that I've been hearing a lot lately. It's the F around and find out. There's like an acronym for it. What is it? F-O-F-O or something like that. I don't know. I don't know if you guys have heard that. Put that acronym in the chat if you've heard that before. The goal is to make your help useful, right? Helping says, I believe you are capable of owning your life and I'm willing to support you. Rescuing says, I don't think you can handle this unless I take over. And control says, if I help you, but only if you solve your life the way I think you should. Those are 3 different things. Okay, now I want your situations. This is where we're going to put the framework to work. So if you're watching live, give me your situation in a couple of sentences. Tell me what you're currently doing or thinking about doing, or you have done, and we'll run them through the 5 questions. Like, you know, it could be money, housing, transportation, treatment, legal stuff, work, adult kids living at home, whatever you got. And don't, you can't make it a novel because I can't, it's hard for me to read it while listening. But if you'll put it in there, Bree's back there moderating and she'll put it up here for me. So give me, give me the details I need, the context, but short enough so that we can work through as many of these as we can. And while you get those up there, If you really are struggling with this and you, or maybe you've already crossed the line over into rescuing and you're so far and you don't know how to get out of it, or you don't know how to start setting these boundaries and you want to talk to one of us to help you think it through. Maybe it's a complex situation. We're happy to do that. You can schedule consult sessions, strategy sessions. It could be you just need one. It could be you need more than one. We are happy to help you do that. I'll put the link in the description because sometimes I understand your situation. are really complicated. And a lot of times people come to us, they've already gotten themselves way over into rescuing. They've gotten themselves into these permanent job positions and they're trying to figure out, how do I get out of this? Campbell is particularly good at helping you sort of backstep out of those kinds of situations because you can't just turn it off, turn the faucet off like cold turkey. I mean, you could, but it doesn't really go well. So like I said, the link for that's in the description, but let's move into looking at some of your situations because I think hearing real-life examples is the best way to help because your situations, if it's going on with you, it's probably going on with someone else. And so looking at this could help a lot of people. All right, Bree, do we have any good situations right there? I'm gonna get my glasses so I can see the little chat. What my loved one has a credit card for emergencies. He keeps using it for things he shouldn't, but when I take it away, he gets angry. And says, what if he has an emergency and takes it back? What do I do? This is really complicated because I'm assuming you didn't say this, Jennifer, but I'm assuming the credit card's in your name and your credit. I could be wrong, but I'm just making that assumption. Right. And so when you give him the card, you're automatically putting yourself at risk, right? Because it's like, if he charges all this, then I either have to pay it or my credit takes a hit. It would be better if he was going to have a credit card for his own emergency, or their own emergency. I don't know if it's a him or her. And then if it was an emergency and you decided to help pay for that or cover that charge because it was an emergency, okay, that's one thing, right? But then that gives you the freedom. If you decide that you're not going to do that, then that consequence falls on them. And this is a really good example, Jennifer, of what I mean when I say some people are really good at making their problems into your problems and you just don't realize it because now You either feel guilty, you're leaving them without an emergency fund or whatever, or you're risking your own credit and your own finances. So if you can put the thing in his name, and this goes a lot, Jennifer, for like cosigning for people's leases and stuff like that. I don't want you to put things in your name if you can at all help it, because then you're going to feel trapped into enabling or keeping on paying it. You feel stuck. So that's a great question. All right. Judith says, I constantly have to pick up after a night of drinking as he's not capable of getting himself home. Oh, pick him up. Pick up the person after a night of drinking. And I don't know if this is like your partner, your kid, your sister. I don't know. Or you said son. This is your son. Okay. I know that this is tough because you don't want them to drink and drive, but I think of it like if you're a parent and your kid is teenager or above, you've probably said, hey, if you're out drinking, call me, I'll come get you. And you will, right? But I think what Judith is saying is that this has become like an every night job and she's sick of it. She's ready to quit this job and I don't blame you. So it's like, That's what I mean when I say it could be helping or it could be rescuing. And this one falls into the question of, is this a time or two, or is this all the time? Because this has turned into all the time. I think that this is probably where you need to draw a boundary and they need to figure that out because that's, I hate to say it, but that's a consequence. Not that you want them to drink or drive, but if they're going to go out and drink, they have money to pay for drinks and they need to have money to pay for the Uber home, or they need to ask a friend or something else. Right. And I know this one's hard because it puts you in that fear place. But I can tell that just by what you're telling me, even this sentence here, that it's gone on for so long and so often that you're sick of it and you're done with it. And I think it's time for you to draw that line, not because it's become permanent and because if you're not already, which I think you are, you will be being resentful about it. Next question. Tara says, hey Amber, my loved one has been trying to get sober for 2 years. Last night was bad and he's drowning in shame this morning. He wants to be sober, but just can't get there long-term. We're trying so hard, but I feel so hopeless with the amount of times he claims that he's done and keeps going back. The last few months have been so much better since I've started watching you, but I'm lost. Is that all that, Bree, or is that— That's the rest of that one. Okay. I can't remember, Tara, exactly what the name of this video is, but I have a video, like a whole video on this topic about they keep saying they're going to change and then they don't. And it's, I feel like it's been within the last 6 months. So if you go to our channel and just hit the most recent and kind of go backwards, I think you'll see it in there. But The really quick, short version of that is it's more than just they say it. It's like, okay, what action are they willing to take? It's like, because they probably mean it when they say it, right? Like you're saying they're drowning in shame. I'm sure that they do mean it and they do need to stop, but meaning it and being serious about it, it's like a flame that you have to keep lit, right? You're going to have like a fire. You're trying to keep the fire going. You have to tend to the fire, right? So that fire of wanting to quit needs to be tended to. And you need to make some choices of some action steps, like go ahead and set some things in place, right? Maybe it's Soberlink. Maybe it's a detox appointment. Maybe it's going to a meeting. Maybe it's calling your old sponsor that you've been avoiding for 6 months. Whatever that is, there needs to be an action step, probably more than one action step, but at least some kind of action plan. Jennifer says, CC is in both our names. I co-signed. Oh, the credit card is in both your names. I co-signed and forgot. He stopped paying and my credit score took a huge hit. Hit, I now pay it. So if possible, I would take that credit card back and then slowly work on paying it off the slowest you can. And then let him get something in his name, right? Even if it has like a bad percentage rating or whatever, what do they call that? Like an interest charge or whatever. It'd be better to be in his name. That way you have the choice because now you don't really have the choice of whether you want to help with that or not. Because it's like, I mean, of course you do, but then you pay the price for it. it. We need to put that consequence back in his bucket, back on his side of the street so you don't feel forced. My husband was the victim of a hit and run. As a result of the accident, he has a brain injury, a lot of fractures and injuries. Sadly, he's a completely different person, but he's sober. Thank goodness that I see your little hand emojis. That's awesome. After a few Months, he begins to have cravings. Any recommendations? Any experience with someone with a brain injury? I think brain injury adds a major complication. The fact that he's sober this whole time is amazing. And I would do a few things. One, if he's having cravings, I wouldn't freak out. The fact, if they're telling you they're having cravings, it means that they don't want to act on them. Otherwise they'd be sort of secretly planning and scheming and not really talking about them out loud. So don't let it make you panic. So one thing you can say is, I'm really glad that you're telling me this. And then say, what's keeping you holding on so strong? Because when you ask that question, Marie, it forces them to answer it, whether they say it out loud. Even if they don't answer you out loud, they will answer in their head because our brains reflexively answer questions. And so then when they answer that question, they're reinforcing why they're committed. And then you want to sort of validate like, I know that this has been massively hard and I continue to be impressed with, or I really respect this. So you want to positively reinforce their effort that they're putting in. So don't freak out. Be glad that they're telling you. That's a good sign that they're telling you, right? Ask them what keeps them holding on so strong because then they'll reinforce, maybe it's like, because I know it won't end well, or because I don't want to lose my family, or because I don't want to go to jail. It doesn't matter what they say, whatever the answer to that is, it's going to reinforce staying strong and then validate. them. Let's see our next question. My loved one is an inpatient, but one of the admissions ladies from a different rehab gave him her cell number and told him she could help him. And now they talk on the phone. Is that unethical or bad? Not in and of itself necessarily. Different treatment centers have different rules about giving your cell phone number out. I know that when I worked into a treatment center, that wasn't allowed, but it sounds like this person is from a different rehab. Maybe this person works at 2 rehabs. I don't know. It could be, right? Like, it's dicey. It's iffy. It's kind of like these, how much can I help, right? There's not a clear line. It's like, what's really going on behind the scenes. Sometimes people that get in this field, it's not necessarily something super sketchy, but believe it or not, and I would say I was one of these people, people that get in this field, we're kind of codependent, right? We're helpers by nature. And then sometimes, especially if we're early in that and we haven't developed super good boundaries, it really is just like a true heartfelt desire to help. There's no bad intention there, but But sometimes we don't have our own codependence under control and we can end up crossing boundaries and putting ourselves in a bad place, right? Like maybe this person's trying to help, but maybe then all of a sudden your person's calling them 15 times a day and then they're like, holy crap, I can't, I gotta go to work. I can't do this all the time. That's one of those temporary turning into all the time. So it could be that. It could be like a relationship brewing. I don't know. I don't know the context, but But it's most treatment centers would tell you not to do that. They would tell you to keep some boundaries in place for those reasons. Married, co-own a business. So it's been very complicated letting him have his own problems. His money is mine and vice versa. He's ebbing between denial and precontemplation. Ellie, we see this a lot. We've had a lot— I've dealt a lot with spouses who owned businesses with their partner, and it does add another layer of complication because it's not just if they lose their job. If they lose their job, you lose your job. And maybe even if you have employees, everybody. So it feels like there's a bigger weight on your shoulders. And depends on what the business is, their addiction could be putting that business at risk. I don't know if it involves driving equipment and there's a drinking problem or something. You know what I mean? So there's multiple layers of complications here. Do you have a question? Is there a specific question you have, Ellie, that I could help with? No, you don't see it. There's no more parts of that, Bree. All right. Is there, do we have time for any more or are we out of time, Bree? We're out of time. We're out. Okay. All right, guys. Thank you so much for those of you showed up live and for those of you who are watching the playback. I appreciate you all being here. I want to say an extra special thank you to all of you who participate. It sure helps me to feel like I'm not talking to myself. And all of you who like and subscribe and share these videos, you're helping me, but you're also helping get this information to other people. The most common thing that I hear is, I wish I'd known this earlier. I'd totally have been doing all the wrong things. And by doing all those things, you're helping other people to find it earlier because you're telling the algorithm, hey, people need to hear this. So I appreciate you. Thank you so much for your support. Some of your names I have been seeing forever. Jennifer Baker, I can't even think of how long I've been seeing your name. And I can remember those little fingernail profiles. So I always know it's you when you're up there. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you for all of you who are supportive. Link in the description for if you need like to talk through your situation, we'll be happy to help you do that. And I'll see you guys next week. We release videos every Tuesday and we're live every Thursday at 1 Eastern if you want to join the conversation. Bye everybody. I'll see you soon.