The Reality of Early Sobriety | What To Expect In Early Sobriety 😥🥵

You're going to be kind of hanging on by the skin of your teeth, as I like to say. But it won't last forever. What's going on here is there's a lot of brain chemicals normalizing. That's the biggest thing that's happening. And while that's happening, you're also trying to learn how to live life clean and sober. You're also trying to deal with any messes that you've made while you are in active addiction, whether they're like, career messes, school relationships. So you're dealing with all of that while not being your best self. And that is no easy feat. So what I recommend to you, if you are the individual in these early first weeks, is try to make sobriety your primary concern and anything else that you can put on autopilot. For now, let's put it on autopilot. Because what happens to a lot of people is they want to get sober, but they just want to keep living life at the very same pace. And they don't want to. I don't want to miss a step. And when people do that, they tend to overwhelm themselves. So you want to. You don't want to start new things. You don't want to take on big projects necessarily. You want to have your main focus on. Let's build new habits and routines and NEUROP pathways. Let's get our sleep under control. That once the sleep gets under control, things start to get a lot better. I was talking to a client in my office yesterday, and he said, man, I've been sleeping good lately. He's like, I wake up, I feel great and rested and ready to go. And he's been sober for about eight weeks now, I would say. And we were talking about, you know, what it's like when you're. What your sleep is like when you're drinking. And it's pretty much you're gonna have a sleep problem with any substance. But he and I were talking about specifically with the alcohol, what happens. And even the sleep that you're getting, you don't get good dream sleep, what they call, like, stage four sleep. You're sort of passed out. And so you never get that restorative sleep. And it takes a good while for the sleep to come back on board in any kind of regular way. A lot of people have to have a little help with sleep. They work with their doctor. Maybe they take, you know, melatonin or something else to help them get those sleep rhythms regulated. And it's one of the most helpful Things you can do for yourself, because your sleep is what fills up your willpower gas tank. And if you're not getting enough of it, you're going to run out of willpower throughout the day. Because in those early days of sobriety, you're using up that willpower really fast. Everything is requiring more willpower. Everything is requiring more focus and attention. After you get past that first month, things start to get a little easier. Now you can make it even more easy on yourself by changing your patterns and routines. A lot of times in recovery, they say your people, places and things. If you can change all that, you actually make it so much easier on yourself than if you try to stay going to the same places or hanging out with the same people. I'm not saying that it can't be done, but I am saying that doing that in the early days is torture. Eventually that won't be so difficult. Eventually you could put yourself in those kind of situations and it not bother you so much. But I really don't suggest it in those early days. Now, those of you who are family members who are listening in, I hope you're listening closely to what I'm saying about what the individual is going through, because you're going to be also sort of in this. When your loved one is in this early stage recovery, you're also sort of like on the edge of your seat. It's almost like you're waiting for the shoe to drop. You feel definitely like you're walking on eggshells. And you're constantly, like, ruminating about what are they doing? Are they really staying sober? Are they going to their meetings? Are they sneaking? You know, are they doing. They're supposed to, but I know you've watched my videos, so I know you're not saying that out loud, but it's really hard to hold it in all the time. So you're trying to, like, resist that urge at the same time that your loved one is trying to resist the urge of being in their old patterns. So simultaneously, you're both like, withholding a lot. You're both going to be burning through your willpower like, like crazy. So the sleep is probably just as important for the family member as it is for the person in early recovery, because you're both really in early recovery. Now, one of the big things that I want to point out here that that sometimes happens in the relationship between the person in early sobriety and their family member is the family member has been so frustrated for so long, and they feel like they've been holding up all the puzzle pieces by themselves, like doing all of their things that they have to do for their life and usually holding up most of the pieces of the other person's life, too. You know, maybe they're having to raise the kids by themselves. Maybe they're the only one bringing in an income. You know, maybe they're the only one helping do things around the house. But family members almost always feel like they have been handling way more than their fair share for a very long time. And to be honest, that's probably pretty much 100% truthful. So one thing that family members do in these early days is not only are you scared and you're so worried about the person relapsing, but you're also so ready for things to change and you really want a break, and you are ready for the person to step up and start, you know, doing the things that they should have been, taking over some of their responsibilities. It's a very natural feeling, and it's a totally valid feeling. However, I really want to strongly warn you here that it's a mistake to throw everything at the person all at once. I know you're happy that they're finally sober, but everything won't be fixed just because they're sober. Once the person gets sober now, we have sort of the conditions to start making things better. It doesn't immediately make things better. For those of you who listened to last week's live video or podcast, we had the couple on when they were talking about their stages of recovery and how things were really difficult, actually, when he first got sober. Sometimes things can feel a little bit more difficult to the person who's sober because the problems are all the same, but now they're having to deal with them. They don't have that, like, coping skill that they used to have. So as a family member, please resist the urge to throw everything at them at once and expect them to be, like, running at 100% and doing all the things. And I know that seems unfair for me to say that to you, because I know it's already been unfair and you've been handling those responsibilities for a very long time. But if you throw too much at the person at once, they're likely to collapse. Because I want you to think about the willpower thing. I just told you that they're probably not sleeping well, that their willpower, everything is taking up more willpower. Just regular, everyday stuff takes a lot more willpower and early recovery. And if you start throwing too many things at them at once, like you Want them, you know, maybe if they have been working, you want them back working full time, you want them helping with the kids, you want them helping around the house, you want them paying back the lawyer bills, all this stuff. And those are not unreasonable expectations, not at all. But I think it works best if the person picks up one thing at a time. Now, I also don't think it's good to be in early recovery and not have any responsibilities and not do anything because boredom is just as big of a relapse trigger as too much stress. So there is that delicate balance of taking things on. I'm not opposed to people working in early recovery. In fact, I think that that can be really good because it's a distraction, it keeps you focused, it keeps you busy, it puts structure into your life. But it would be hard to start a brand new job and go in full time as a person newly sober. That can be a tricky kind of situation because if you're starting a new job that needs to require your full, full attention and concentration and willpower and which is going to make it hard to give your full attention and concentration to your recovery. So I'm not opposed to like doing those things. And if you've been doing them all along, then you're probably okay because you can kind of do them without very much willpower because you kind of have it on autopilot. So if you've been doing it, you're probably fine to keep doing it. But when you're adding new things, just be strategic about what you add in and then what level or dose that you added in and do that one thing at a time. I sometimes say it's like juggling, right? You don't want to throw 10 balls at someone and say juggle all these at once. You want to throw them one, let them get that one going and then another one, one at a time. And then eventually they are juggling all 10. Another thing that happens in the dynamic in early recovery in those relationships is that families, you're so hurt. So not only are you ticked off that you've been handling all the responsibilities, but your feelings are hurt and you feel like that you are owed an apology. And you probably are, in fact, let's just say, and you are owed an apology. And so you're also sitting around waiting for this person to come and tell you that they're really sorry about all the things that they did. And you're thinking, well, isn't that one of them steps or something? Like, aren't they supposed to come make Amends of me or something. And when am I what, When I was my apology coming? And that's also another very valid feeling. But for the person who's in early recovery, even though they may not be engaging in their addictive behavior, they're still not completely back to themselves. And one of the things that's not completely there is their sense of self esteem and their sense of confidence. And they're still very fragile and broken. Their ego is very fragile and broken. And it's hard enough to have to admit, hey, I was wrong about my drinking, I was wrong about my drug use, I was wrong about my gambling. Like, I've been defending it this whole time, and I was wrong. And that's difficult enough but to come in and be able to acknowledge not only was I wrong about it, but all the horrible things I did. Eventually people can talk about that. Eventually people can make amends for that. But in those early days, a lot of times they just don't have the ego strength to do it. So, you know, you know, you guys know I say you can, like get in recovery any kind of way. The 12 step, it is one of the steps to make amends. But if you'll notice, it's not in the first few steps, it's a little bit down the line. And it's a little bit down the line for a reason. You need to be at a place where you can do that and where you can even hear feedback from other people and it won't crumble you. So if you're the family member, if they're not saying anything about, doesn't necessarily mean that they don't, you know, they don't recognize what they did. It doesn't mean that they're not sorry for what they did, but it could mean that they're not ready to talk about it. And I know you're ready. You've been ready for years and you've been waiting, and it's like, totally not fair. But you guys know what I say on this channel all the time? It's like, I don't tell you what's fair. I tell you what works, right? And another thing that goes on as far as the apology is the, the person also feels like they've said they're sorry so many times, and they know that sorry doesn't hold much weight anymore. So the other thing is they don't even know what to say to you, right? Like, they don't even know how to acknowledge it. And they kind of feel like saying sorry is almost like an Insult, because they've said it 400 times and it kept happening. So that's just another piece of what's going on there as far as, like, why they're not coming to you, making amends and acknowledging it. Now, a third thing that is going on in the dynamics of the relationship that sometimes we forget is that, you know, we expect for the family member not to have trust for the addictive person. Like, that's like a given. But we. We don't recognize and we don't necessarily think that the addicted person also doesn't have trust for the family member. But that is very much the case. For so long, you've been at odds. You know, it's been cat and mouse. It's been a power struggle, and hurtful things have been done on both sides of that. And so there is trust broken on the family member side and on the person in recovery side. And so part of the reason why they might not be apologizing is there's might be still a little bit mad at you too. And I know that that's hard to hear as a family member, but it's. It's true. They also have hurt feelings about some of the things that have happened. They may acknowledge that, okay, yes, I have an addiction, and I. I should have done something about it earlier. But they're probably most likely going to be upset about some of the ways that you handled it, and that's okay. You. You didn't handle yourself perfectly, and they didn't handle themselves perfectly. So I don't want you to beat yourself up about it. But they are. You need to recognize they are also carrying some hurt feelings. Even if you think that that's not justified and that that's not valid and that that's not fair. It's not about what's fair. It's about what is. So I can. I can pretty much almost always promise that there are hurt feelings sometimes. I want to admit it. Some people depend on their personality. You know, they will own it right away. They will say it was all me and my wife, she's a saint, and I just treated my family terrible. Some. Some people will say that, like week or one or two, you know, right out the gate, but I promise you, they don't feel it that strongly in week one or two right out the gate, number one. I can promise you that, because their brain chemistry isn't, like, stabilized enough for them to really feel it. They just know that that's what the right thing to say is. And. And it's not. It is kind of helpful to hear them say that. I'm just saying, like, regardless of whether they say it or not, there's a lot of mixed feelings and they may have a lot of mixed feelings about staying sober in those first weeks and months. And so if they say things to you that communicate their ambivalence about it, like, you know, they may say, hey, I don't know if I'm going to stay sober forever or, you know, I don't know if this recovery thing is for me. You know, your job as the family member is not to freak out. Those are normal feelings. And as scary as it is to hear those thoughts, you, you want to bring the trust back into the relationship. And if you freak out when they say those things to you, then they just won't tell you that they're thinking those things. People tell me that in counseling session all the time. You know, they're like, I don't know, like, this is a trial in. Where I said I'd do a trial for. Again, I ain't promising after these 30 days or whatever they say, and I'll say, okay, we'll figure it out from there. So your job is to allow the process to happen. In fact, both of your jobs is to allow the process to happen. If you trust in the process, things will get better from like a 12 step perspective. You know, it's that, it's that faith step. It's that I trust that this recovery process is going to work. And that's the scariest thing for both sides. You know, for the person who is newly sober from any addiction. You know, everybody's been telling them their life's going to get better. I'm telling them they're going to be able to like experience joy and happiness again. You're telling them all this stuff, but they don't believe you yet because right now they're sober and they don't feel so great. And so they're pretty doubtful. They're like, okay, I'm gonna give it a try, you know, kind of wishy washy about it. But they, they're not completely on board yet, and that's okay. They're probably not gonna be completely on board until they actually do feel better, until the relationships are better, until they are, you know, they are experiencing life in a better way. That's when the, the increase in their sureness comes along. So don't expect it right out the gate. Don't let it make you freak out or it doesn't mean something's wrong. It's A natural part of the process. It's scary, and it doesn't feel good for a while. So it would make sense that someone might be a little iffy about it. The way that I help people through it is I try to give them some expectations about timelines and when things come back, because, you know, we can get through hard things if we know that there is eventually an end point to it. But if it feels like it's always going to feel this way, it's really hard, and it makes us want to give up. So whether you're on the family side or the individual side, I promise you it gets better if you just let it now. If you try to rush it or push it, it'll slow down the process, and in fact, it could send the whole thing backwards. So be reasonable in your expectations. One of the things that made me think about having this topic for today is. Is a conversation that happened during lunch this week at the office. And Campbell was saying, hey, have you seen so and so? And I said, yeah, I've seen so and so. And she said, I've seen. Seen the wife. And, you know, she's like, how's it going? And I was like, hey, he's doing really good, or whatever. And then Campbell's like, well, the wife really wants this and this and this. And I was like, dude, we just got us over. Like, you don't have to give us a minute. What do you want from us? You know, mostly I'm saying that, like, you know, kind of, like, irreverently and. And funny to her. I'm like, what do you want? You know, we're doing the best we can over here. And she was laughing. She's like, I know, but we want it all. And she was saying, we want this, and we want them to be, like, nice to us and, like, romance us and take care of us. And I was like, you gonna have to give us a minute. And that's what made me think about doing this topic today, because that is very common at first. The family members, like, you just get up sober, like, everything will be okay. And all they can say, and literally, once the person is sober for, like, four days, the family member's like, all right, now this and this and this and this and this. And I'm like, okay, hold up. Like, let us get solid with this, you know, reinforce these, you know, steps that we've taken here. And then the other stuff comes quite naturally after that. And it's like I said, it's understandable. While the family member feels this way, I can promise you I would feel the exact same way because it has been so long and because you have been bearing a lot of the burden for so long that you want things to come back on board faster. But be careful and don't try to rush it. For those of you who are watching live, I'd love to hear from you about your experience with early recovery. Whether it's your own personal experience or from the family members perspective. What was it like for you? What were you thinking and feeling during that time? How long did it take until things started feeling a little bit better? I'm going to actually put the link up here in case anybody wants to hop on here and share their experience with that. Please remember that if you do that, if you, if you press the link, then you're going to be up here with me live, right here on YouTube, also on Facebook right now. So don't share anything that you don't want out there. So I'm just putting that out there. You guys know that. But I feel like I have to say that every time. In the meantime, we're going to say hello to some of you guys who are over here in the chat. I'm so glad that you're here and if you are listening on the podcast and you would like to listen live. We go live Every Thursday on YouTube at 1pm Eastern and a lot of times we have guest speakers and when we don't have guest speakers, a lot of times we let you guys come on and ask questions or share some of your own experiences. So let me put the link up here for you. All right, I'm putting it in the chat there so you can see it. It starts with Streamyard. If you want to join us, you can. And then I also want to remind you guys, as always, there are links in the description to more resources. One of the links I put down there for you was the Nightly Recovery Checklist, which is really great resource and tool for anyone who is in those early stages recovery. Because it's like every night, okay, did I do this, this, this and this? It's like, is my house in order? Is my thinking in order? Is my spirit in order so that I can go to bed and sleep easy? We talked about how important sleep is and get back up not carrying the burdens from the day before. It's kind of like making sure the dishes are put away so you're not waking up to a big old mess in the kitchen that you have to deal with. Because that's a rough start. Your Day off. So it's a way of sort of making sure everything in your life is clean and tidy. Not like clean and tidy, like with the Lysol, but like emotionally, relationships wise, spiritual wise, all that kind of stuff. Because it sure is nice not to have to deal with problems of yesterday. So that link is for you. I also put a coupon code for you for anyone who wants to be in our membership program. That membership program is for both sides, family member and or person who is trying to change some things in their life. So right now is a good time to get into that membership. And if you use the code, you get that discount, like every single time. You'll have that for as long as you have the membership. So I went ahead and put that down there for you. And what we do in there is each month we take a different value. Like this month, we just started April, and our value is humility. And so we talk about that one. We release a video. It's myself and Kim and Campbell. We release a video like I do the first week, Camel does the second week. Kim does the third week. And then on the last week of the month, we do a live. That's just for the members. It's private, Members only live, where we answer all of your questions. Sometimes people hop on live and they ask questions about their specific situation or they send them in early and we answer them there. So all that's in the description. Let's say hello to some of you guys who are watching. I'm so excited that you're here. Oh, look, we have a super sticker. Thank you, Wendell. That's so nice of you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. Is there a question I can answer for you or something? I'd be happy to do it. All right, let's say hello. Hey, Michelle. Nancy's here. Diana's here. Debbie's here. Amy's here. Hello. Lisa and Kelly. Let's see here. Ellen and Toddy and Bobby. Got lots of people. Looks like a couple of questions. Oh, I like what you're saying here, Amy. Amy's saying sedation is not. Not sleep. Said that Sleep doc, Matthew, something. I'm a little bit confused, but I think what you're saying is like being sedated, like, being out doesn't necessarily mean you're getting that good restorative sleep. And that's exactly right, 100%. And that's what happens when you're, like, using to fall asleep. You're. You're more like sedated. Michelle says, amber, how do I get past the hangover. To even get to day one, you guys give. Give Michelle a little feedback about that. Is it get past the hangover, Michelle, or is it, like, withdrawal symptoms that you're experiencing? Let us know that, because I think the answer to that might be a little bit different. One might be a little bit different than the other, and it could be kind of a mix of the two. So let's see here. Lisa says, why does my wife feel so tired after giving up drinking? She's only about three weeks clean. Think about. Think about this, Lisa. Anytime you start something new in your life, it requires more energy. So, like, if you went back to school, if you started a new sport or exercise program, if you started a new job, it takes a lot more energy because you're learning, and everything you're doing, you have to pay attention to. Like, when you first learn to drive a car, you have to pay a lot of attention to it. Right now you can drive a car, and you're just, like, listening to music, you know, listening to your podcast. You're doing all these things at once. You don't even remember that you drove there. Once you got there, you can kind of do it, you know, half asleep. Not really half sleep, but you know what I mean? But at first, it's really hard. Like, you have to think hard about every single thing. And so your wife is thinking hard about every single thing. Not only is it like, don't drink, don't drink, but. But doing everything without drinking, brain chemistry being not so great yet. It is exhausting and that they really are exhausted and their sleep probably isn't that good yet either. So there's. There's about a hundred reasons why your wife would be tired. So give it some time. That I would say that that is normal and to be expected. Now, if somebody is, like, seeming so drowsy that they're sort of out of it and they're nodding in and out, so that might mean something else. But just being, like, really tired and exhausted, not having a lot of energy, that would be what I would expect if somebody wasn't like that in early recovery. I probably, like, sketch. I like, what are you really doing? Because that's what you should be feeling at that stage. All right, let's see here. Bobby says hate addiction. Yeah, me too, Bobby. Oh, here's Wendell's question. Here we go. My wife struggles with early sobriety and ends up binge drinking for two, three, or five days after a week of sobriety. Boredom is a real problem for her. This could be happening for a number of reasons. That could be happening because like you said, just like boredom and not having a lot of structure and not knowing what to do with my time can leaves a lot of time to like, think too hard about it, you know, and you don't want a lot of time to be thinking about like, don't drink, don't drink, don't drink. Because that's not helpful. That's just making you want to drink more. So it could definitely be the boredom. It could also be that. And I've seen this a lot. People get several days sober and they think, oh, I got this, I'm fine. And then they forgot what happened like a week ago when they felt super terrible. They get like far enough away from it that doesn't seem so horrible and they think, oh, I can have a drink or two. And then another thing that happens sometimes is they're like, woohoo, I made it a week cheat day. And they think I'm gonna have a cheat day, but I'm not gonna like drink every day or anything. There's, there's a lot of reasons why that could be happening. So I think it's important to. If your wife is open to having an open conversation with you about it, it would be good to sort of talk through that and figure out why that's happening in a non judgmental, non, like, I'm not mad at you kind of way, but like, hey, we're a team, let's figure this out together. If that was my client, that's what I would do. I'd be like, okay, what's the pattern here? And I would let them sort of talk me through the process. Sometimes they know it and then sometimes they don't know it, but together we can figure it out. But if they feel sort of like they're not being threatened or you're not mad at them or whatever, then they're a lot more open to exploring that with, you know, see here, Sober Living Builders, private ministries. Had to relieve my relationship after she got sober because she is blaming me for everything and doesn't want to hear me out. Yeah, and that's kind of what I was talking about when I said they hold some resentments towards you. We think that just because they're sober, they're just immediately going to be fixed and think really clearly. But that's not, that's not the case. That comes a little while down, down the road. Sherry said, it is hell in my family waiting to hear that. I'm sorry. And I'm being the truth, not just manipulation. It is hard for the families, like, waiting for that. But you've got to wait till you're in the right place to do that. Because if you open that conversation, they may bring up other things you did, and they may want to talk about it longer than you're ready to. So it's a scary conversation. I mean, no one likes to talk about their flaws and their things that they've done wrong. And to sit with someone face to face and acknowledge that it's very difficult for anyone. So it will happen. And sometimes if people don't say it to you, you can see that they get it through their behaviors. I always say believe what people do over what people say anyway. Sometimes they're showing you that they're sorry and that they get it because they're doing different. And that's the biggest apology, that's the biggest acknowledgment you could ever get. And it means more than what you could say anyway because you didn't said it anyway before. Right? Doing it is communicating it all right here. Let's see. Teresa says, my loved one did rehab. Second half months, two and a half, maybe you're saying, oh, two and a half months. Stayed busy in meetings and started working on a job and moved and sober living all before three months. It's constantly busy. Stays in meetings and helps in rehab. That's probably a pretty good plan. I think someone. I think someone being, like, back out working and stuff by three months, they probably should be. Too much time, I'm telling you, is just as much of a relapse trigger. So I'm not opposed to people sort of moving forward with their life. I just don't want them to take on too many new things at once. Because that is overwhelming, Bobby. 35 years of marriage, and she's been lying for a decade about using. Who does that? Any person who's addicted does that. How did I not see it? My mom lost my mom and brother from addiction. Son is in recovery. It. You know, I don't know your story, Bobby, but it depends on what she was using. Because some things are a lot harder to detect than others. Like if it's an opioid addiction, it's almost impossible to see that. Most time you're not gonna see the signs and symptoms of it for, like, years. Because they don't slur their words, they don't act funny, they don't smell funny, they don't talk funny. You know that you don't see, like, intoxicated signs so you don't realize that that's a. The problem. Some drugs, you just don't. They don't seem intoxicated. You can't tell it by looking at someone or interacting with someone. So don't beat yourself up about missing it. That happens. Happens a lot. Let's see here. If you guys have a question, if you'll write the word question or put some question marks first. It helps me because I love it that you guys are all here to talk to each other, but I'm, like, scared. Scanning through. I'm trying to see, like, what questions to answer. Definitely keep talking to each other. But if you have a question, like, put something bold there so I, I see it faster and I'll. I'll try to get to it. Let's see. Renee says. Oh, Renee's talking to Lisa. Okay, see, that's what I mean. I have a hard time with that. Tony says, let's see what Tony has to say. I have been sober for 16 weeks from addiction. Not drink or drugs, but another kind of addiction. And it has gotten easier. But my wife has been on eggshells. But we are getting through it together. I think that's wonderful, Tony. Like, that's fantastic. And I would expect those first 16 weeks to be like eggshells on both sides. If it's not like eggshells, I'm probably worried because I'm like, something's not right here, here. So hang in there. It does get a little easier and a little easier and give each other some slack and some grace. And don't expect the other side to be perfect. You know, your family, they're going to drive you crazy a little bit. Give them some slack and vice versa. So let's see here. Acadia says I learned that because it was a total brain reset and it took him however long to get sober. But my own brain reset didn't start until way after my husband was showing consistent sobriety. Oh, that's a really good point. You're talking about, like, his brain chemicals stabilizing, but your brain chemicals don't really stabilize until his are. Because you're living in that fear zone, right? You're still saying in that anxiety, hyper vigilant type place. So you're kind of like feeding off of whatever's going on with them. And I think you're. That is a really Good point. You're 100, right? Let's see here. Amy says adenosine receptors. Adenosine receptors reset after several months. The brain waits to make sure you don't need them. It took three to four packets of vitamins a day. Anheda kicked in for me once I stopped taking them. And anhadenia is like a. It's like a. It's like a tiredness, right? Like, almost like a depressive, exhausted type feeling. Amy is giving us a good book recommendation. If you guys see that. Raquel says. Let's see what Raquel has to say. My husband has been sober for six months, and I'm still very detached, and I'm having trouble imagining ever letting my walls down. It is hard because you. You had to detach to keep your sanity when the active addiction was going on. And it's irrational to think that you can let your walls down all at once. It's going to be slowly. If you didn't see the live from last week, Raquel, it might help you because we had on a couple who talked about these specific things. So if you didn't see that one, you might want to go back and take a look at it. It was a really good episode. Let's see. Lydia says, I find managing my expectations is very challenging. Ever since my son recently taught us he would like to get sober. So what. What Lydia is saying is he hasn't gotten sober yet, but he's. We call it change talk. He's talking about wanting to get sober. And you. It'll probably be a while from the first time they start to say it till it actually happens. And what, what I think you're saying, Lydia, is like, you're like, this is really exciting. When they say that, you're like, okay, let's go. Let's do it. Like, let me drive it to rehab or whatever. But that change talk will usually go on for a little while before they actually take the steps that are needed, because they're. They're figuring that process out now. Sometimes, right when they say it, if you're ready with some solutions, they'll start taking some steps. And other times it's. I call it circling. Like, I can kind of tell, like, when I'm working with someone in the office, I don't know how tell Kim. I'm like, we're close. We're circling. Like, it could be tomorrow, it could be next week or next month. But we are circling it. Like, you can feel it. Like, it's. It's happening. It's coming closer and closer. Let's see. One of our Facebook viewers says, have you done any videos on brain fog related to the effects of someone else's alcohol use? Are you talking about from the Family member perspective. I'm assuming that's what you're saying. I've talked a lot about what goes on inside the family member related to someone else's substance abuse problem. I don't know that I've called it brain fog, but we do have a lot of videos about just the experience of it, the. The trauma of it, the way that it creates anxiety and that anxiety and fear and trauma makes it hard to concentrate on other things. Because just like the person is constantly obsessed about the addiction, you're constantly obsessed about the person. And so you don't pick up things. You're not as quick. You don't pick up on things the same way that you would normally because you're distracted, basically. I had a mom tell me one time. She was like, I have worked at the same job for 20 years. And she said, I was driving home from work, the same job I've had forever. Going home, same way I always go home. And there was a cop behind me. I saw the cop behind me. I wouldn't think anything. I just drove home. And then he pulled me over and he said, like, you ran that red line? She's like, no, I didn't. And then she realized, like, I guess I did. You know, this. That brain fog thing where it's. I call it, like, if you drink too much, we call it a blackout. When the family members. I call it a brown out. It's not like it's totally gone, but it's fuzzy. It's like a brown out. All right, Michelle, I see that you are on there and that you might want to join us, but I don't see that your camera or microphone is turned. Okay, I see your camera is on. Or we're gonna put you on here, but you'll have to hit unmute.

Oh, hi.

Hi, Michelle.

Hey.

How are you? Good. How are you?

Good, Good. It's good to see you. Sorry I joined it late. I don't know if I'm still on.

You are. You're. You're on love. Okay. Okay.

Sorry. I'm. I'm. I'm having a brown fog. Yes. I am having a brain fog. Yeah. So my. My question is that if the. So I think maybe I'm. I'm not. I may not be in the context what you are saying it, but I have a question. If the person is. Is. Is. Is fog. Like, you know, he has a complete fog, how do you. How do you even talk and get their attention or get their. I mean, it seems like he's listening, but I Don't think he's listening or he's like, you know, completely fog. And I'm not sure, like, you know, how to get them into the sense of to, to. To get out from the denial or not, not denial, just to get out from that stage. I mean, it seems like with the. With my husband, he wants to come out because he does some of the things which I can see that he wants to. He wants to give it a try, but he's not. He's stepping back. Like, you know, he goes one step forward and five step backward.

So when you say brain fog, you don't mean like early sobriety brain fog, but like actively using brain fog.

Yes, actively using brain fog.

That's hard because, you know, when they're, when they're newly sober, you know, they have brain fog. But they're, you know, they can think fairly clearly. And when you're dealing with someone who's an active addiction, they're either intoxicated or they're in withdrawal. In either state, they're not seeing reality the same way you're seeing reality because it's being brought in through the filter of intoxication or through the filter withdrawal. So it's really hard to get someone to see a situation active accurately. In fact, they're usually sort of like delusional. Like, when you're talking to them, you're like, you're not in the same reality as me. And I don't mean because they're like high and they're seeing snakes. I'm saying just like, they don't see life the way you see life at all. And it's frustrating. The best thing you can do, and I say this from a, like a brain chemistry kind of thing, is to make someone pay attention, you need to make their brain release dopamine and neuroepinephrine. Dopamine is the motivation chemical, and neuroepinephrine is the pay attention chemical. And so there are a few ways of doing that. Giving, you know, positive reinforcement is helpful because that releases some dopamine, but also just being interesting releases the neuroepinephrine. So like, even, like storytelling helps people's brains focus. So from that kind of perspective, it's about, you don't want to talk too long. You want to stay mostly positive. And if you can just make it interesting in some ways, that literally makes the right brain chemistry come into play. But I will say, if they're in active addiction, it's hard. So if they're drunk, that's, you know, they Won't even remember it. Even if they did pay attention to you. You have to get them when they're not.

They have to wait, basically wait until.

They'Re at least semi sober to have that. At least, like, you know, they're going to remember the conversation the next day. Yeah. Okay.

Just one thing is that, you know, one of your videos where they talk about, you know, how the isolation make it. Make it things worse when. When we are trying. When. When the family member is trying to isolate it and things like that. I think there was a one video. So he. He was sending it to me and saying that, look, you know, I mean, this is. This is what Amber is saying, you know.

So he's sending you my videos?

Yes. Yeah, he sent to me and he's telling me that, you know, this is not gonna work because isolation doesn't work. Look, this is the proof that, you know, even she's telling that isolation doesn't work. But I'm trying to convey my part then saying that, you know, I understand, but if it's drowning and I. I guess he did not listen. The last part where you are saying that if it's drowning the whole family, it's. It's not gonna work either way, so you have to detach and things like that. So those kind of con. Those kind of convers.

Good to.

Good to do, or it comes in the negative sense.

Well, first, let me just say I think. I think it's very interesting that he's. He's sending you my videos, because that is different. That's funny. But. And I also can kind of see what you're saying when it's like. But he selectively listened. He didn't listen to this one on Facebook, which is, you know, totally true. But if he is saying that, what he is saying is, I want more connection. So what you're hearing him say is you're hearing him say you're doing it wrong, which he is kind of saying, okay. What he's trying to convey is I need more connection. And you can give someone more connection without. I mean, I don't even know if he's in the house or anything, but you could say, okay, yeah, let's do that. Let's go do something. Let's have lunch together. Let's see a movie like, I miss you too. Let's connect so you can kind of figure out some ways of maybe connecting that doesn't drown the whole family. Like what you were saying. Okay, I think that's a good sign when someone says, see isolation. Because it says, I miss you. You know, that's. That's what it. That's what the real message is, is I miss you.

Okay. Makes sense. Thank you. I did not see that part. It was a blind spot. So thank you for clarifying it.

Yeah. Good to see you. Thanks for hopping on. All right, we have just a couple of more minutes. If you guys have any more questions, now's the time to put them up there. There's a little bit of delay. Every time I hit end the live show, I always see, like, five questions pop up right after I hit that. And so, fair warning, last call. Let's see here. Nancy says their addiction almost becomes yours. It's exhausting. You are a thousand percent right, Nancy. You're right on target. I love it. You guys are talking with each other so much. Renee, you put the question marks, man. That's helpful. Is there some science to explaining brownout? I have a hard time keeping facts straight when talking to a family member that's using. He accuses me of being abusing because of my memory. Yeah, that's a great question. The. The science of it is just that you're distracted, and probably you're feeling scared and intimidated when you're trying to have conversations with your loved one because he's accusing you of that stuff. So it's not. Doesn't exactly feel safe and comfortable. So you're managing a lot of emotions while you're trying to communicate. And the way our brain works is the emotional brain. If it's too activated, the thinking brain, the volume turns down. So the more the emotions go up, the more the thinking goes down. So what's happening, I think, is your emotions are going up not only because you know you've got this addiction happening, and you're probably preoccupied with that, but also just because it sounds like. Because he accuses you of having memory problems, and he kind of puts it on you, then you. You feel. Feel nervous going into the conversation, and that's making it harder to focus. It's just like, why is it hard to focus when you have to stand up in front of a group of people and talk? And you're just like. Because your brain is, like, managing a thousand signals at once. It's like traffic jam in there is what it is. I do not know of resources in Minnesota other than, like, Hazelton. That's like, the treatment center that's well known, that's been around forever. That's in Minnesota, unlike the original one, so. But other people watching probably live. If you live closer to Minnesota and, you know, have some good resources. Will you guys put that in the chat and in the comments? Thank you. Amy says, are you familiar with Anna Lemke and her research on dopamine and pleasure pain spectrum? If so, do you have suggestions for dealing with the pain of withdrawal? I'm not sure if I know that specific person that you're talking about, Amy, but I do have quite a bit of, like, knowledge and experience about dopamine and that kind of thing. But you're saying something different. I have to look that up. If so, do you have suggestions? I think. I mean, I can kind of, like, guess about what that's talking about. If I have suggestions about dealing with the pain of a draw, I think if there's anything you can do to help alleviate it a little bit, I think that that's helpful. Because a lot of people, they want to get sober and they just get in the middle of the withdrawal, and it's just so unbearable that they can't deal with it. That's why a lot of people end up going to detox. I mean, they could deal with it, but they're so miserable. Like, they end up going back out and using because, you know, when you're in pain, you're. You're resisting, you're resisting, you're resisting. And so that willpower, you can just like, visualize the willpower. Gas tank just going empty, you know, and then they go. And they go use. So it's tough. All right, guys, thank you so much for joining us. Those of you that are here live and those of you that are on the playback, thank you as well. We are live Every Thursday at 1 Eastern if you want to join us. And there, as always, are resources for you in the description. I hope you guys have a wonderful day. Bye, everybody.