The SECRET BATTLE Behind Doctor's PICTURE-PERFECT Life | Functional Addiction

My cravings do not last 20 minutes. They last for days, and I don't understand why I cannot get over it. Like, I can distract myself pretty darn well, but it just goes on and on and on, day by day by day, and then I just give in. And that's what happened, you know, a week and a half ago when I relapsed. Like, I just gave in. There's no rhyme or reason to it. I was tired that day, and I'd had enough of trying to fight that urge, right? Here I am back at that kind of moment again where the cravings are starting again, and what am I I'm gonna do 2, 3 days from now when I just decide to give in? I don't know. I don't know what to do differently here. I don't know what the next move is.

All right, y'all buckle up because today's story is one you don't want to miss. I just sat down with Ashley, a small-town girl who had big dreams of becoming a doctor. The road to get there was anything but easy. At one point, she was even told by her advisor that she'd never make it into med school. But Ashley's got grit like you wouldn't believe. She pushed through every obstacle Made it through medical school and finally started living the life she'd worked so hard for. But just when it seemed like all of her dreams were coming true, addiction crept in and gambling took hold of her life in a way she never saw coming. In this video, Ashley shares her powerful story of how addiction nearly derailed her dreams and how she fought her way back to not just survive, but thrive. Ashley's story is the perfect example of how addiction progresses no matter what form it takes. And it's also a story of redemption and the incredible things that can happen when Trust me, you're going to want to hear this all the way through to the end. Ashley, thanks for coming. I thank you for your willingness to share your story with us.

You're welcome.

I guess a good place to start is to start from the beginning. Can you tell us a little bit about where you grew up and who's in your family and give us some context so we understand?

I grew up in Eastern Oregon in a really small town, and I was with my mom and my sister. She's 8 years older than I am, and my mom remarried eventually. My dad lived about a 3 or 4-hour drive away from us. I saw him in the summers and maybe a week or two throughout the year other than that.

And your sister was quite a bit older. Did you, do you have a, do you have a close relationship with her, or?

I do now. When we were kids, we weren't very close because, yeah, she's 8 years older than I am, so she was in high school, and I was just a little kid. So sometimes she would take me with her on her dates and things like that, Sometimes when you have a sibling that's that much older, they almost take a little bit of a parentified role.

Like, they're like, you know, a little bit of a mom role. Did she do that?

She did. My stepdad was kind of an angry person, so it was— I think she knew that she could help me by taking me out of the house a lot, so she did that a lot.

What was your relationship with your mom like?

It was not the best. That's a hard thing for me to talk about, honestly. But I think my mom was going through a lot when I was growing up. She had an alcoholic father.

I think she was just trying to get through the day.

She kind of took a victim role, and I don't know that she knew how to be a mom, necessarily.

What were you like as a little kid? Like, if we could— if there were home videos or something we could go back and watch, what would— what do you— what were you like?

I was shy, and I was a huge tomboy. I wanted to be a— I wanted to be a boy when I was little. I remember that. I wanted to be just like my dad, I think. So there's a lot of videos of me with, like, a weird short haircut, and wearing boy clothes and just kind of being a punk. I was somebody who climbed a lot of trees and was outside a lot and played video games too at the same time. And so just kind of really tomboyish.

Were you— did you play sports? Were you sporty?

Sort of. Not— I was kind of a chubby little out-of-shape kid, but until, until I got to high school. And then, and then when you're in a small town, you just play every sport, you know? So I did, I don't know, cheer and softball and track. And—

What were you like as a teenager?

I was very outgoing as a teenager. That was kind of when I flipped a switch and understood what it meant to be charismatic, I think. I, for some reason, I figured out that that was a doable thing, that you could just change your personality and just kind of be who you wanted to be. So I made this switch from being, like, this sad little kid growing up, this just, like, shy, sad little tomboy, to, okay, no, like, I'm a girl, and, like, You know, it's okay to be like outgoing and cheerful. And, you know, I think I ended up being like vice president of the class and like, what is it called when you're like homecoming queen or something like that?

Yeah, you really blossomed. It's like the thing that comes to my mind is like, came into your own. That's what they used to say where I'm from, came into your own. Did you have, um, a lot of friends?

Yeah, I would say so.

To talk to your friends back then, and I said, what's Ashley like? What would they tell me about you?

Mm, I think the same thing, that I was sort of outgoing. I think I got class clown and also most likely to, like, do something with their lives. You know, like in my junior book.

That's an interesting combo. You usually don't see that paired up. Class clown and most likely to succeed kind of thing.

So I was the kid that hung out with Older kids. And that's just been something that I've done my entire life. I've always hung out with people who are a little bit older than me. And I did that when I was a kid. And I remember, you know, being a freshman in high school, hanging out with the seniors. And so the seniors were partying and taking, like, kids like me with them. And I definitely had a few times where I went and, you know, went to parties, and my mom didn't know where I was, and— You know, you'd wake up at a friend's house and all of a sudden their mom's like, Ashley, like, your mom's on the phone. She doesn't know where you are.

So you had your fair share of mischievous teenage have-fun behavior.

Yeah.

Would you say it was like within the regular teenage behavior kind of realm or more than that or less than that?

Knowing what I know about teenagers today, I would say it was pretty normal.

So what happens after high school?

After high school, I wanted to become a doctor. I always wanted to become a doctor since I was about 15. Decision that I made, I just, I didn't really have a great reason for it. I just wanted to. So I went to college in Spokane, Washington for a couple of years. Was not prepared for that.

What makes you say that, Rebecca? Why do you say that?

When you're in a small town, the town I grew up in is like 1,000 people in population, and I guess One of the gifted kids educational-wise, like, you know, put in a corner in the math class 'cause I could just go through the textbook all by myself. And so, you know, they thought we were all ready for college, but I really actually wasn't ready for it. I didn't have the skills, the study skills. I didn't know what it even meant to study. So when I got to college as a pre-med student, you know, you start in biology and chemistry and, you know, physics and all this very difficult, you know, subject matter. And I remember my first class, taking an exam and sitting there getting the results back. The professor put the exam scores, the top exam score on the whiteboard. It was like a 90-something. And then he drew this big line with an arrow down to the number 34. So it's like 90-something and 34. I looked down at my test score and that was me.

So this was like a rude awakening. This was like, I'm in a different world now.

And it was difficult. It was a difficult couple of years when I was in college, just knowing what I wanted to do, but then having this sense of, I don't know if I can. I hung out with some really nerdy girls when I was in Spokane, like a group of us that were like biochemistry major. One wanted to be an attorney, one wanted to be a journalist. There was me, and there was another, like, really sciency girl. And so I— Asked them to tutor me, which was perfect, and they did, and that was awesome. But I still struggled, and my pre-med advisor took me aside one day and he said, I don't think you're gonna get into med school. That was probably when I made one of the first big decisions. Like, I kind of have this theme in my life where I just kind of make these huge decisions and I jump and I say, you know, whatever's gonna happen here. And so that's when I— Decided to transfer schools because I felt like nobody believed in me. So I moved to Oregon, back to Oregon, and went to Oregon State and reestablished myself as a nutrition science major and a pre-med and worked my butt off for another 3 years and got into med school.

Was that a good choice? Did you do better at the other college?

Yeah, because I felt like it was a fresh start. There was nothing magical about going to a different school other than it felt like I could breathe a little bit more, and there was more opportunity maybe. Doing nutrition as a pre-med student was a little outside the box at the time, but I just had this feeling that it was a good idea, and it really was.

I mean, it seems like a logical step if you ask me.

Most pre-med students are biochem or chemistry majors or science biology majors.

So then did you get into med school?

Yeah, this was probably the first time that I worked incredibly hard at something, not knowing if I could do it and just kind of gritting my way through it and then proving that I could. I'm— I got into 3 med schools. I got 3 interviews and got into all 3 of them.

When did it— some people take that like as a challenge, like, I'm gonna prove you wrong. Other people would take that as a, maybe I am making the wrong choice. Like, how did you take that feedback? Like, got it.

I think I always did wonder if they were right. There's something in me that I've— I didn't even know I had this in me until probably this year, but I just didn't— I guess it's grit is the name for it. It's just like, I just wanna see. Just wanna see if I can. And I just never stopped. I had this goal and I had— I remember even having like set amount of money put aside in a bank account for probably years, like 6, 7 years or so, just for applications for medical school. That was gonna be used for, and that's what it was used for. So.

You were super serious about it. Like you had your head set on it and you got it.

I did, surprisingly. Yeah.

What was med school like?

Med school was awesome. I loved all of it. I went from Oregon, which is a very rainy, cloudy place. I was pretty depressed as a kid. I guess I left that out. And then when you go to college and you're always in the rain and you have like, they call it seasonal affective disorder, SAD, but 90% of the time you're in the rain, it's hard. So I thought that medical school, I was scared of it. Like, who's not scared of that? But I thought it was gonna be worse. I thought I was gonna have to work harder than I did, you know, leading up to it. But it's surprising how much the sun had an effect on me, and that's why I live in Arizona now. I moved to Tennessee for med school and the sun was out way more often and it was like I just was happier. And medical school is a lot of rote memorization. That was a new thing for me to be able to watch all my classes online and not have to go in person except for, you know, mandatory stuff. I could study in the mornings and then get my classes whenever they were ready after they had filmed them and play 'em on double speed. And so you just absorb the information. And then I had this system of like writing all my notes down and you do it 2 or 3 times and you're, you're good. You know, you're memorized. So med school was awesome. I loved every second of it. I, I fell in with another group of girls. We were all kind of similar minded and, and, uh, we would go to study groups together and I, I would just go to be social. I, I just, I didn't need it. I just, I liked the friendship and—

Well, what happened after med school?

Residency is after med school and I ended up doing the second 2 years of med school in Northern Alabama. And it was a beautiful time. Like I said, med school was amazing. And so the second 2 years, it wasn't that it was a different school, it's just that's where you did your rotations, your clinical rotations. Place I was in, it was kind of another small town. It's the Shoals of Alabama, if anybody's familiar with that, you know, Muscle Shoals. And fell in with this group of doctors there that just took me under their wing. And the medical director of the hospital, of Helen Keller Hospital, he was like a second dad to me at the time. And he just really took to me, and I took to him, and we had decided that I would go work for them when I got out of residency. So I stayed in Alabama, went to the University of Alabama for residency, probably to make him proud. I don't know.

You must have really impressed him. I mean, he had already decided to hire you before you were even done.

Yeah, I don't know. It was like a character thing, I think. So I wanted to stay there. I signed a contract with them, actually, to stay in the Shoals, and I went through residency, and that was hell. Pure hell. Nobody prepares you for working 100-hour weeks. I had a baby when I graduated medical school. I had a baby that summer, and so he was super fresh as I was an intern.

You had a brand new baby as a resident? I mean, what's that like? Brand new baby by itself? I mean, I don't even know how that's done, so you're gonna have to explain it.

It's not uncommon. I know Several women in medicine who've had to do it. You know, like, you gotta start your family at some point. My husband and I had been married for 6 or 7 years by the time we had him. So we had him and it was terrible. I mean, it was— I love this kid. He's not terrible. He's— it's— it was this, you know, being an intern in residency, trying to breastfeed a kid. And, you know, you wake up at 3 or 4 in the morning, you pump, you go to work, do your rounds, and then you tell your upper— who, you know, I don't know, what they're called anymore, but you're the person ahead of you, like, hey, I gotta, like, pump some milk, and it's like 10 AM, and they're like, you can't. Like, you have to do all this work for us now. And it was traumatic just trying to be a mom and do that.

Dude, you're a beast. I can't even wrap my head around it. I'm over here trying to process it, just trying to imagine. I mean, having a new baby, you already don't have any sleep. I felt like my brain half-functioned. I was a hormonal mess. I just couldn't believe it. Okay.

Yeah, it was pretty awful, especially when you work nights. See, my husband, he's a— he was a medic at the time, an EMT, and he worked on an ambulance. So our son had a fever at daycare. My husband, if he was working, he couldn't get him, and we didn't have any family there, so I'd have to, like, leave to go get him. And there was just a sense of, like, Ashley's not working hard enough, you know, when that kind of thing would happen versus In my opinion, I think they could have been more supportive about it.

So you amazingly finished residency. Did you go work with the doctor in Alabama?

No, I didn't. So my third year of residency, a doctor came to speak to us, our class, who does self-pay medicine, which is a model that is called direct primary care. And, you know, sometimes I just get inspired. And he came in and said, hey guys, there's, there's another way to doing medicine or getting paid for what you do. You don't have to work for insurance. Some of us are, you know, taking payments directly from our patients and they pay us a monthly membership fee. And if you do this and you get 500 patients paying you every month, look, you're outpacing the average family medicine salary. And I was like, wow, that's amazing.

That's really outside the norm. Like, that's a whole different way of practicing medicine.

Yeah, I remember going home, talking to my husband in our kitchen, and just being like, wow, what if we did that? And I don't know, again, it's just like this what-if in me. I loved the concept. There was something about it that drove me. And at the time, the place in Muscle Shoals had given me $60,000 or $50,000 or $60,000 to pay my student loans. I took it and I paid my student loans like an idiot. I actually used it, and I then contacted them, and I talked to the doctor who was kind of like a mentor to me at the time, and I said, hey, I'm sorry, I gotta do my own thing. And so I cut the contract and moved to Arizona instead.

I mean, just even talking to the mentor guy, was that conversation hard?

Yeah, it was awful. I mean, you know, gut-wrenching. Like, it would've been a nice, amazing job had I stayed in Alabama. I would've been respected as a female physician in the community. I knew what those doctors were making money-wise. I knew how respected they all were, and it was a great community. I loved that place, but I just had this other idea in my head.

Did people think you were crazy? Did people try to talk you out of it?

I don't know what they thought. I know that only myself and one other person in residency that I knew at the time were doing direct primary care, that we were going all in. Again, it wasn't the norm, but in my head, you know, it's cool to take a contract and be set for life because like when you're in residency, all you want to do is make money for the first time.

Because you're so broke for so long and you have all those student loans and— right?

Yeah. I mean, we were living off of credit cards. So, but I was like, if I could just hold on a few years up front, I think this would work out.

So you moved to Arizona. Was there like an opportunity for that in Arizona, or did you just pick it because there's sunshine there? Why Arizona?

Sunshine was a big deal. My husband is one of 7 adopted kids, and 2 of his siblings at the time lived here in Arizona, and we wanted to be closer. One of them was also kind of in the LA area, and he's really close with her. And we were tired of taking 2 planes to get home all the time, right? So it was like an entire day of travel. So, and we had a kid and we wanted another one. So we picked the outskirts of Phoenix to move to so we could be close to those siblings and be in the sunshine.

Okay. And so you just started your own direct care practice right out of med school or residency?

Sort of. I, I guess I had a plan to work for somebody else to try and fundraise for my own practice. So I went and interviewed at a traditional primary care clinic. I didn't like the interview, and I turned them down when they offered me the contract. Somehow we kept talking, the owner of that practice and I kept talking, and I said, I really want to do direct primary care. I'm so sorry, I'm going to turn your contract down. And he said, I'm really interested in direct primary care as a business model. And somehow he and I had it in our heads that we could start a direct primary care clinic together.

So you went from interviewing for a position, you said, no, I really want to do this. And then the person you interviewed with was like, I want to do that. Let's do it together.

So you look, looking back on it, it's an interesting decision because I was warned a little bit about don't take a job working for somebody else. Like, it's kind of a— it's going to be interesting for you to not have ownership in your own clinic. And I didn't have any ownership, zero equity at all. So I was just kind of the person, the face of it all. I did 95% of everything in that clinic, built it off my back, my reputation, my style, my personality, everything. It ended up being amazing. It's a grind for a couple of years when you start something like that. But then once people see what you're doing and they like it, it can really take off.

So somewhere in your story, there, there, there becomes a problem. There becomes a curveball.

So the curveball was that, you know, 3 or so years into me working this direct primary care model, the business became successful. The clinic was thriving, and the more and more patients I got, They would see it be successful, and they would congratulate me. And I would have this, like, thanks, you know, kind of attitude. And they'd be like, aren't you just so excited and proud of what you've done? And I was like, yeah, but I don't own it. You know, I don't own the clinic, and it is what it is. And there was a lot of back and forth with me and my boss at the time, like, just him trying to help me a little bit, but I didn't like his ideas ever. I guess I'm just rebellious, and I would always just kind of keep him out here. And so he really didn't do much for the clinic, and I kind of liked it that way. And so once it was really successful, people started asking me, why don't you own this? Like, I thought you owned it. Why don't you own this? And I was like, at this point, guys, like, don't ask me that question because there's nothing I can do about it.

Probably triggering to hear that question, I would imagine.

Yeah, because they also— he and This accountant guy that I worked with to kind of start everything up, they would dangle equity in front of me for years. They said, we think that you deserve some sort of equity in this business. And I was like, awesome, I'm so excited for that. But until it happened, I didn't know if it was gonna be true or not. And one day they said, okay, we think you've made it. Here you go. You get 15% of the profits. And I, I, I was offended. I was, I was like, to be fair, it was a decent offer. I think I was just so excited about equity that it—

What was the number you had in your head?

I had no number. I just had this expectation of more. And I knew what the business was doing. I'm very good with numbers. I knew all the numbers for that business. I was in charge of everything. I, you know, my name was on the bank account, everything. So when they did that, I asked, is there any equity involved in here? And they said no. I also wasn't offered Simple things when you're employed, like a 401 or health insurance, even though those are part of my contract. They're secretly like, don't ask for those things. I had some people say, why don't you just go and do this on your own? We'll support you, we'll invest in it. And I got the guts to call my boss up one day and say, I'm gonna do my own thing and I'm gonna go somewhere else and do this. And he said, you're not gonna have any patients. Why would you ever think about doing that? So, What happened was he got with the accountant, and then the accountant met with me and said, what do you want? There's no way we can lose you because you're the face of this business. And I said, double your offer, and I'll stick around. So they doubled the offer. I got 30% of profits on top of what they were paying me, which gave me a lot of money at that point. And then, once I finally felt like I had money, my husband and I decided to go to the casino. We always loved gambling. For our entire marriage, and we had been married probably 12 years by that point, but we had never had enough money to play with. So we started going to the casino because we already loved it.

Did it just happen overnight? You went, you got this sort of promotion or equity or partnership, go to the casino to celebrate you and your husband, and then it just sparked something off. What happened?

Yeah, I, we went to the casino and we went with a couple friends. One of the first times we had started going regularly. And one of my friends, she's so bougie, I love her. She goes, Ashley, you don't put $20 in the slot machine. This is what you do. She puts like $200 or $300 in and just starts going to town. And I'm like, wow, look at you. And then she would send me photos of just cash in her purse, like $10,000, $20,000 winnings. And I was like— Wow, you know? And so I was like, I could do that, you know, like in my standard fashion. So we kept going back to the casino and I would just like put a couple hundred dollars in the machine this time. And I was like, what's gonna happen?

This is where your what if, your what if is still at play. It's just, it's just focused on this. Okay.

You know, we kept going back and then one day my husband was at work and we had a couple of friends that we would go to the casino with. A couple of guy friends in particular. And it was a running joke. Like, anytime we had a party or we were at an event together, we'd be like, let's go to the casino. Like, let's bounce. Let's go to the casino. And sometimes we would. But my husband was at work one night, and I would never do this these days. I wouldn't have even done it back then, really. But it was just like, I wanted to go so bad. And my guy friends were like, we're going, Ashley, you wanna come? I texted my husband because I respect him enough to be like, hey, Can I go with, you know, 'cause they're good friends too. And he's like, I guess. So I got a babysitter, and we went to the casino. Before that point, I would stay up at night after going to the casino, just kind of beating myself up about losing $300. I'm actually really good with money. I'm really good at saving money despite the problem I ended up having. But I would just stay up for hours, just like, I can't believe you lost $300 tonight. Like, what are you thinking? What are you doing? But that night when I went with those I went to the ATM probably 3 or 4 times that night after losing the $200 or $300 that I went with. And I think I was down about $700. And just, that's when the addiction started. Like—

Like a, it's a clear shift. It's a clear, different mindset.

Yeah. Like, that was it. Like, I knew at that point, when you go back to the ATM 3 or 4 times in one night after, like, Losing more than you are comfortable with. That same night, I sit down at a slot machine, and I just, you know, I'm like, what if? And I start playing, and I'm down to, like, $50. And I'm like, this just blows. And the guys that I was with, they come and find me. They're like, are you ready to go home? And I'm like, yeah, just let me. Because at that point, you're just like, F it. You know, like, I'm just gonna lose this money. Just let me lose this money. I'm just gonna pop, pop, pop, pop, pop. And then they watched me hit a jackpot, and I won $1,800 in, you know, the span of like 5 minutes. Went home just like—

Like dopamine crazy everywhere in your brain.

Like a fat stack of cash. I didn't know what to do with it. And obviously I just put it in an envelope to take to the casino for future fun, but that was it, you know? And from that point on, I was there as much as I could possibly be, and It wasn't something I was proud of, but I would, like, sneak around and be there at any moment I could.

How often are we talking? Like—

Well, it's not like I'm super close to any casinos. I mean, kind of close, but I also have 2 kids at home, and my husband works, like, 24-hour shifts. So if I got 2 hours free at work, like a bunch of cancellations or something, I would bust it to the casino.

How far away is the casino from where you are?

It was probably a 20 or 30-minute drive, but from my house, maybe 30 to 40 minutes.

If you had a 2-hour opening, you would leave your house, drive 30 or 40 minutes there, play for an hour, and then book it back?

Yeah, and sometimes I would be late, or people wouldn't know where I was. You know, it's embarrassing, but, like, that's what I was doing.

This gambling thing is ramping up. You're kind of sneaking off to the casino every chance you get. How's it working? Like, are you winning, losing, breaking even? What's going on with that part?

I kind of cycled through a lot of cash, and, you know, people would give me cash for certain things too, like, 'cause I was getting into, like, kind of outside-the-box medical treatments, like PRP, microneedling, and things like that. And so people would just hand me cash for that kind of thing 'cause it was a little bit different. And I would just keep this envelope full of cash, and then I was making a ton of money too, so I would take trips to the ATM, and it was no problem. So I gambled through a lot of cash, but I didn't—

I'm sorry.

I don't remember if I was up or down or, you know, any of it. I was just having fun. I was just playing. At some point, I got tired of going to the casinos, though, because, like, I was tired of sneaking around. And it was so exhausting, the driving and the sneaking. I remember having this thought. I was in my bathroom one day, and I was like, I wonder if they have casinos that you can play on your phone. And I distinctly remember thinking, If they have slot machines that you can play on your phone, that will be the end of me.

But you knew it at that moment. You were like, this isn't good. Like, yeah.

And I didn't even look for them for probably a couple of weeks because I knew that even though I had the thought and everything, I knew that's dangerous. You know what I mean?

And for those of you who are watching, the correlation here would be this move is like moving from pain pills to heroin or Swallowing pills to snorting pills, like, this is the jump here. This is like a moving up in my tolerance or moving up in how fast the drug gets in my system, essentially.

Yeah, so eventually I gave in. I found those online casinos, and man, there's a lot of them. There's hundreds easily. And then it was game on. Then I got myself into a whole world of knowing what crypto is, and because a lot of online casinos will only take Crypto, because it's easy and not as trackable, and that you can't dispute a crypto transaction. I didn't have to go to the casino anymore. Got on a few sites, loved them, and eventually figured out that I had a problem when every waking moment that I wasn't working, working out, feeding my kids, or sleeping, and I definitely sacrificed a lot of sleep, to gamble. I was just doing it all the time.

Because you had such easy access, you know, if you had 5 or 10 minutes, you could do it, whereas before you'd need like at least 2 hours or something. It really escalates on you.

Yeah, and I wasn't even gambling that much. Like a $2 spin was a lot for me at the time. So, you know, you put $50 into an online casino, you could play with it for a long time. And I was ashamed of it too. And I knew it was shady. Like the first time I did it, I was like, I think this is like not real. And my bank would like constantly text me about fraud, like, and I'd be like, no, you know?

So there was something in you that felt it was sketchy kind of from the start?

They look sketchy, the online casinos. They do. You don't trust them. Not a lot of people trust them and they do sketchy things.

Why would someone, because you were saying how there are all these different gambling, I guess, apps or places or whatever, you can do it online. Why would someone want to go to more than one?

Well, for me it was, this casino's not treating me well, right? So you have a victim mentality when you're gambling. Like it just happens pretty easily. This casino sucks. I don't win anything here. I might as well try this other one. But also when you start to play games as much as I was playing them, and I bet everybody who goes to the casino can understand this, that, you know, you have your favorites. And your favorites are what they are because you've won something in that game, right? So you think it's winnable, you think it's easier. So then, for me, I would go seeking out new games or games that I knew were in my favor in other casinos. And these online casinos, they have sister sites, almost every one of them. It would always advertise 2 or 3 sister sites. So by the time I thought I had exhausted all the games on this one, like if they weren't treating me well, no matter what I did, I was just losing, losing, losing, then I would sign up at the sister site. I'd get a whole fresh start. And to me, it was like an algorithm thing, like odd that the games would treat you better in the beginning.

Okay, so how far are we in the story? Are you losing money? Are you managing it okay? What's going on at this point?

I just, you know, amounts of money are relative. Like, in my head, I was making a ton of money at my job, like, more than I needed, more than I didn't know what to do with. So it was just constantly feeding. Like, I would get $20,000, $30,000 bonuses, like, at the end of a quarter, and I was just like, let's go, you know? Like, and I would just feed these online casinos so much of it. And, uh, Just open up more and more accounts. Probably by the 3rd or 4th account that I had, though, that I had exhausted, I knew I had a problem. So I would ask them to shut me out, which is self-exclusion. The first site that I did it with, they took it seriously, and they said, because you used those words, you are no longer allowed here. And that's how it should be.

I mean, this is not uncommon. This is the same as if you're using a substance, you tell your dealer, listen, I'm done with this. Don't sell to me anymore. And just like with dealers, some of them will hold to that, and some of them won't.

I don't remember enough about it, but I remember just feeling so bad that I had like, I could waste $100 in a few minutes and then you'd give them another $100 and another $100 and you'd be like, this is too much. What are you doing? This is too much. I do remember actually, I would be like, okay, today I'm only gonna put in $50. If I only put in $50 a day and I only spend, you know, whatever that is times 30 days. This is in my budget, you know, so I'm budgeting for it.

So this is— people that follow my videos, you, you hear me talk about this is bargaining. Same as I'm only going to drink on the weekend or something like that. Okay, you've got this budget, $50 a day times 30 days, and this is my budget.

And eventually that turned into $100 a day, which ramped up to At the end of it, $1,000 to $2,000 a day.

How long did it take you to get approximately from telling yourself, I'm only going to spend $50 a day, to where we're spending like more than $1,000?

It probably took a year at least.

And during this year, was there like back and forth? What was your thought process about what was happening?

There was a point where I figured out that I had a real problem and I was ashamed of it. And nobody else was telling me, you know, like, you've got a problem. It was me. I knew. And I would go, like, I went to Oregon for a weekend to see some important people and spend, like, a weekend in the woods at a camp. And I remember reconnecting with kind of a woman who is like a sister to me, kind of like my sister, but just, we're very close. And having, you know, like, to talk to her about the last 3, 4 years that we just hadn't connected. You know, she was talking about some things that she was going through, but then, you know, when it came to talk about me, it was like, I've got a problem and I don't know how to stop it.

You said that to her? Like, you admitted that out loud?

Yeah. And so she was concerned enough that, you know, she was there for me and would ask me about it occasionally. But I remember the fact that it was a weekend in the woods and I was hoping, you know, I wouldn't indulge in gambling that weekend. And I didn't, and I was super proud of myself.

Can I ask you this? Could you get reception in the woods? Like, could you have gambled?

Yeah, I could. I just chose not to. And there were other times where I would go on vacation, and it's so funny. I guess I did have one friend who was like, you've got a problem and you need to stop, and I'm concerned about you. She was the only one.

How did she know? Like, did you come clean to her, or how did she know?

It was just the way I would talk about winning money and going to the casino all the time. She caught on because she and her husband have money and they've been hit up. by friends who have problems, and she was just concerned about me.

What did you think when she said that to you? Did you feel defensive? Did you agree? Did you feel embarrassed? What was that like?

I think this is just my personality, but I would just smile and nod, you know, like, you know, just like, I know I got a problem. And it didn't even bother me that much. Like, I knew I had a problem. She would say it, and she would be like, you really need to stop. And I'd be like, I can't.

So you knew you can't. So there's this, I can't, but then there's this smile, like, but it's okay. Like there's this sort of cognitive dissonance, I guess. You were talking about going on vacation, I think, with this friend. Yeah.

And I could quit gambling for days at a time. Like I, 'cause I, I would be on vacation like with her and I'd be like, I haven't gambled in 72 hours. And she'd be like, oh my gosh.

You know?

And then I, every time though, I'd go home and I would just get back on it. Every time, even after the weekend in the woods.

When you would go, like, the 72 hours or the times, were you testing yourself, but then it wouldn't last?

Yeah, I thought I could, like, truly kick it if I could just, you know, get myself away from it for a few days. And then there was a point where I was truly like, this is a real problem now, although I didn't identify, like, as I don't know why, not until way later, but I was like, I gotta stop. And so I remember again telling this friend that I had, that lady, that I was gonna stop.

This is like some accountability. This is a big, bigger step. Okay.

She was the one who knew I had a problem, so I went to her and I said, I'm gonna quit.

Did your husband know this was going on the whole time?

I think he knew, but we're not a very vocal couple. We have to purposefully have conversations, like, intentionally, like, get in front of each other to have conversations.

So he knew, but he wasn't saying anything? Was he giving you the side-eye or a vibe or anything?

Yeah, a little bit of side-eye. So, yeah, I told her I was gonna quit. I found one of the gambling block apps online and put that on my phone. Super proud of myself for doing that, actually. And I quit for about 2, maybe 3 weeks.

So this was a first serious attempt at quitting because before you would take breaks, but that's different because it's more like testing yourself. Like people take breaks from drinking, they're not really trying to stop, they're just taking them. This is different.

Yeah, I was trying to quit for real. And I even told her, I was like, if I can quit gambling for 90 days, I will buy myself a brand new car, which is a big deal to me. And she was like, get it, Ashley. And she would check in on me too. And then, you know, 3, 4 weeks later, she's like, how you doing? I'm like, it didn't happen, you know?

Oh, did you? So you admitted it when she asked you? Okay.

And that was at the point where, that's when I knew it was a bad problem because then I would be on my laptop gambling and then I would block that and I would get another laptop and I would block that and then I would get, my husband's 10-year-old tablet and blocked that. I got on my kid's Kindle.

Your kid's Kindle? You can gamble from a Kindle?

You'd be surprised. It got to the point the kid's Kindle was— Kindle was like a low for me. But like when I was so desperate one day that I got on my husband's Xbox.

But that was lower than the Kindle? Okay.

It was pretty low.

Why was that a low?

Because if you've ever typed in something from a game controller and you're like, Click, click, click, you know, push, you know, just to, like, log into the site. But at that point, I was in with a group of casinos. When you're knee-deep in it, you're spending hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of dollars with these people, and they're calling you, like, a VIP, or, like, one casino called me, like, a golden goose. And they would, like, give you money to stay, like, if you tried to self-exclude. 'Cause, like, in the beginning, The first set of casinos I self-excluded from, they were like, you said the magic words, go away. I kept finding shadier ones and they'd be like, don't go, here's $500.

So they knew what they were doing. Like, this is serious. They're like, they're not trying to help you be better at all. No.

And they had 3, 4, or 5 sister sites with the same games. So I'd self-exclude from one and then get on another one.

Feeling like this term golden goose, that's almost insulting. Like VIP, you know, I could see where, oh yeah, I'm a VIP. That sounds— they call you a golden goose. I don't know why that stuck in my head. I thought that was interesting. Okay.

Yeah, that was a— I missed those casinos too. I'm not gonna lie. Yeah. So it was harder to get out of them, but I thought I had like 10 accounts with this one group of casinos. And when it came down to it, when I self-excluded from them, it was actually 19. I was getting on his Xbox, typing in logins, spinning casino games on this game controller, and then I would go site hopping and that's how I would play 10 times on his Xbox. It's like, It was just embarrassing. My kids saw it. They knew what I was doing. It was pretty bad.

So the reason you're on the Xbox is because you've put like blocker apps on your devices. And so you keep going to different devices. You've tried to self-exclude from these casinos and then, and then you just join new ones. So it's like you're trying to set these parameters for yourself. You're trying to set these like blocks for yourself, but you keep sort of outsmarting your own block.

Yeah. One day I bought a tablet on Amazon because it was like $150. showed up the next day, and I just— my husband was like, you bought that to gamble on, didn't you? And I was like, no.

That was his version of saying something.

He knew, my kids knew, everybody knew at that point.

Did they know, like, did your husband know to the extent that it was happening?

Because we have separate finances, it's just always been that way. It's how we've been. And so he didn't really know probably how much money I had saved and definitely didn't know how much I was blowing. I knew I needed to do something. I just didn't know what. Like, I literally had no idea what to do. I think GA was something that was said to me or mentioned to me, but it was very logistically difficult for me to get to the GA meeting. I didn't realize they did it on Zoom. Like, literally, you can find a meeting every hour of the day now on Zoom, but I didn't know that. This is where, you know, my faith comes in because I'm a— I have a lot of faith in God, and I think he literally stepped in and said, hey, like, if you can't do this, I will help you. Because there's just a lot of things that happened all at once to wake me up to the fact that, like, I needed to stop and I was going to stop, and here's how you do it.

It was almost like a spiritual experience?

Yeah, so one Christmas, I left all my devices at home and I took the kids to Oregon. And I remember getting on the plane being like, this is a fresh start. You know, I had my phone, but it was blocked. And so I was like, you know what, on the airplane, let's listen to some podcasts about gambling. This is it. Like, I'm gonna quit. I downloaded 2 or 3 podcasts on gambling, and one of them was yours. And you were talking to a kid who has a gambling problem. And I remember listening to that maybe first and just loving the way that you were responding to this guy and just like, this person sounds cool, you know? And I liked your accent.

I can't believe you found that because I literally only have, I think, 2 videos on that. I would think it was buried in the archives of I don't know what. Okay. Wow.

Yeah, it was like a podcast that I found too. I didn't see it. I didn't even know you had a YouTube channel. So listened to that, and I just liked your style of speaking. And the other podcasts I listened to were just not good to me. And I went and found more of you speaking and understood that you were like an addiction person. And somewhere around a few weeks later, I was just really in it. I was, this was the $1,000 a day point. And I was like, something's gotta give. And I looked you up, and I was like, I could try to work with this lady. I was like, ah, it's— when you don't know what you're getting into, you're like, eh, it's kind of expensive. I don't know. You know, like, I don't know. But I was like, you're spending a lot of money anyway. Like, you might as well, like, spend a fraction of that to get some help, and maybe it'll work. And I didn't know if it would work or not, but— When I was gambling all the time, I was up in the middle of the night, you know, probably up till about 1 o'clock in the morning. Just spinning on some device that I had, and I was watching Netflix on the screen on the corner, and I had been watching a show. I think it's called, like, You Can't Ask That or something like that, and it's an Australian show. And it's like, it was groups of marginalized people, and every episode was like— Have you seen this? It's a pretty good show. Yeah, like, one was, like, people who have been abused, or people, like, Aboriginal people, or people who, I don't know, just various groups of people. I was coming to the end of this show and I'm just like, Ashley, you gotta stop. Just, it's 1 o'clock in the morning. You gotta work. Like, this is insane. What are you doing? I was at that point every time that I—

Like you're gambling, but you're fighting with yourself. You're having this whole like back and forth war. Okay.

Yeah. And I'm watching this show in the corner and the last episode that comes on is Problem Gamblers. And if that's not a sign, I don't know. You know what I mean? Like, I turned the game off, and I watched the episode of the show, and I was like, this is gonna be you if you don't do something. And I went onto your website and, you know, applied that night.

Okay, and then what happened? So this was another pivotal moment.

This was me saying, like, I'm gonna do something about this. And I would tell people that I was hanging out with, like, I'm gonna start this, like, coaching program. I hope it works. But I don't know. Like, I remember literally telling you, like, in my intake form, like, I don't know that I wanna stop, and I don't know if I can. And you were like, you can. It was— that was it. Like, you helped me a lot.

Will you tell us what that process was like for you? So, fill out the application, you have an appointment. Was it just like, I said magic words and it was over, and you just never wanted to again?

It was— this is where I, Came into, you know, having an identity as somebody with an addiction. And you said, like, just find somebody in recovery and talk to them. You know, I found a couple of people, but one of them is a lady that I've known for forever. I used to babysit her kids in college, and she's been involved in AA since she was a teenager. Like, she was that bad. And every time I would babysit for her, I'd be like, where are you going? And she'd be like, I'm going to AA, you know? And she was very involved. Like, all her friends, She had met through AA. And so I called her up, and she spent hours on the phone with me. And she would say things like, you're gonna learn so much about yourself. You know, feel free to ask God to just, like, reveal who you are and why you're doing this. And I'm like, I didn't think about that, but okay. And I've learned more about myself in the last 8 months than I ever knew before. It took forever. Like, it took a lot of, like, grasping at the casinos and you saying, like, no, like, I will help you get this out of your life. And I mean, it was a lot. It was difficult.

It wasn't like just magic. It didn't immediately go away, but you were taking steps. So you were taking steps before that. You were trying to block yourself. You were telling some people. You were promising yourself it was over. Then you took another step to reach out and get help. You're like, well, I'm not doing this on my own very well. Let me get some help. And then you start And even then, it still doesn't immediately go away. So you call your friend in recovery. How did you get the brakes on? Like, what else did you do and how long did it take?

Okay, so this is where I learned about myself. And again, I had no idea that this is who I am and how I operate. But when we started working together, we, you know, I was, I signed up for like 3 months with you and I had like 1 month left and I was like, I cannot be successful at this. And so there was a point where I was playing around, just, I was not putting money into the casino, but I would play with free money that they would give me. It was bad. It's still like I was, you know, finding other devices and using them, middle of the night stuff still. And it was just, God, you know, and I'm like, you know, when you're an addict of some sort, getting 30 days clean is like a big deal, right? And I couldn't. Say that. And I had one month left working with you, and I was like, I gotta be able to tell her that I made it 30 days at least, you know? And so in the beginning, it wasn't even that I wanted to quit to be done with gambling. It was, I just had to win at quitting. It was just like, okay, I had to show you because I was really respecting you that I could do it.

Okay.

And that's how it happened.

So for the first little while, You were still gambling, but you weren't putting any more money in. So it would be, I guess in my mind, it would be like, I'm sneaking a drink every now and then, but I'm not getting drunk. And even though that was a lot of improvement, it kept the addiction alive, I guess. Keeps you craving, it keeps you wanting more. Then we get 8 weeks in and you're like, I only have 30 days left. I have to do this. Okay, so what happened then?

I did it and it was awful. I mean, Terrible hard.

What did you— what did you do? Like, what was the key?

Grit. Like, determination. And just like, literally, I never realized this, but I, I thrive off of when people I respect are proud of me. And when I took to you, it was just this like need to make you proud of me, you know what I mean? And I just Had to do that. And so I just put my head down and I dealt with it. And I even found a video that I had filmed of myself. I don't do this all the time. It was just, I don't know, I was starting a YouTube channel and trying to get better at speaking. And so I filmed myself every day for 30 days. And one day I went to the park and I filmed myself talking about how bad I wanted to gamble. My cravings do not last 20 minutes. They last for days. And I don't understand why I cannot get over it. Like, I can distract myself pretty darn well, but it just goes on and on and on, day by day by day, and then I just give in. And that's what happened, you know, a week and a half ago when I relapsed. Like, I just gave in. There's no rhyme or reason to it. I just, I was tired that day, and I'd had enough of trying to fight that urge, right? Here I am back at that point. kind of moment again where the cravings are starting again. And what am I gonna do 2, 3 days from now when I just decide to give in? I don't know. I don't know what to do differently here. I don't know what the next move is. Even the progression of, like, me talking about, like, you know, how things would set me off, Like, seeing a piece of fruit would set me off because I liked to play a game that had fruit in it. And how my cravings would last, like, you know, people say that they'll last for, like, 10 or 20 minutes if you just ride it out. But I was talking about how, like, I would crave it for days, and I didn't know what to do. I didn't know what to do differently. And so it's like this desperate plea, and I'm just, like, talking to my phone about it. I'm glad that I did that 'cause it's kind of interesting to look back on, but— I just kept my videos.

Like a video diary.

Yeah.

Which would be similar to like journaling or talking about it. It's super helpful because it helps you sort through things in your own mind. It actually helps you clearer. So the thing that happened was just another level of determination of, I have to, like, I have to get these last 30 days completely sober.

Yeah. And I had this thought in my head that like, I'm gonna do this, damn it, and I'm gonna do it Really well, you know what I mean?

And I'm gonna do it really well. I love it. Okay. But it wasn't easy. It was really—

it was terrible. It was the worst.

I kind of feel like in some ways the addiction you had is harder. Like, like people talk about alcohol being everywhere, which is true, but the ABC store isn't sending you emails and text messages and calls and giving you free alcohol to pull you back. Like these Casinos hunted you. They stalked you. They, like, came after you.

Yeah, I actually still get a voicemail at least every other day from my VIP hosts. And then I get unmarked mail once or twice a week. And I always open it. I don't know why I can't just, like, not open it, but it doesn't look the same every time. And it's, you don't know what it is. It could be important. And so you open it. And, like, one time I opened it and, like, Fake cash came out of there, like a handful of fake cash.

When I hear stuff like that, it just makes me cringe because it's like, that's so messed up. Like, it's literally like your dealer calling you from a blocked or an unknown number, you know? And then they're just trying to call you from a different number and a different number, and you're trying so hard to avoid all these triggers, but it's like coming after you.

Yep.

One of the things it seems like that happened is you You did do that. It was really hard and you just kind of willpowered some of it, but you also sort of shifted your attention a little bit or a lot of it. Can you tell us a little bit about that part?

So this has been the best year. This has been a difficult year, but when I quit gambling, it took all of, I mean, it was, it was March 7th that I really quit and March 24th Maybe the 24th, I had a meeting with my boss. And, you know, throughout that whole period of gambling, I didn't realize how unhappy I was in the job that I had because I didn't own that clinic. And he came in and had a very discouraging talk with me. You know, when I talk about how, like, I have to have somebody that I respect feel proud of me, there was none of that at this job. It was My patients loved it. They were proud of me. My boss thought that I was a little unruly and doing ridiculous things, and I'm a little bit outside the box when it comes to doctoring. So he came in and had a very discouraging talk with me. And for a year or even longer, I had wanted to just get the guts to quit that job. And that was the moment where, like, you know, when I was deep in addiction, it was like all these waves just crashing around me all the time, right? Like chaos.

Yeah.

And then all of a sudden, I finally quit, and everything just settled. And it was, like, the clearest I had ever felt about how there was all of this in my life, all of these things that were making me unhappy, and they were in the way of me living the life that I wanted to live, right? Like, and that was one of them, and that was— it was a huge one. So when he had that meeting with me, I got the nerve to just quit. I turned in my resignation the next day. This was a big deal.

Huge deal.

I had a clinic with, you know, 1,000 patients. 700 of them were mine. Everything in there was me. Like, I built this thing up to be very successful. And I knew there was a chance that I would walk away with no patients, no income, no nothing, right? Like, but I did it. And I remember I talked to you the day I put my resignation in. You were like, okay, it's okay. Like, I'm just like heaving. And then the next day I got kicked out and it was like, it was very dramatic. Patients were coming in like having panic attacks, like, where's my doctor? You know? And—

So you put in a resignation, but they wanted you to just go ahead and leave. Sometimes businesses do that because they don't want you to like take information or clients. Stuff like that. Okay.

Yeah. So then, because I didn't have gambling to cope with, I put my head down and I opened up a new clinic, and it took me 10 days. I'm not gonna say like, it's no big deal. I'm impressed with myself for having done that. Like, I literally opened a clinic 10 days later, and I mean, it was amazing. You know, I've got over 400 patients now, and it's been, What, 6 months? And it's thriving. I'm doing fine. You know, people were worried about me, like, when I quit my job. They were like, are you going to be okay? And I'm like, I'm okay. Like, I had actually, despite the gambling problem, I had saved enough money to, like, support myself and invest in a new clinic and all this stuff. And I'm not, like, in an ideal situation yet. Like, it's still a 6-month-old business, but it's the most amazing time in my life because Right.

And you did it like remarkably fast. And I feel like for a lot of people, that whole curveball with the job thing might've caused a relapse for a lot of people.

Yeah, maybe. But that was, that's when I realized that my addiction energy, you know, is a part of me. It's, I'm, I'm not me without it. obsessive, and that's okay. You know what I mean? Because I also had started a YouTube channel at that time, and, you know, initially, I started it to kind of market the other clinic that I was working at. And so I just kind of carried it forward. I had only made, like, 2 or 3 videos by the time I quit the job. So for some reason, I wanted to keep doing it, and so I kept doing it, and I had all this, like, rage inside of me anyway to talk about how, like, you know, my old boss, he was He was not for me having like any sort of relationship with my patients. And I, I say that as in like caring about them, like actually caring about them.

Right. Yeah. He wanted you to just be like the, I call it the factory, like stamp, stamp, stamp, like that kind of. Okay.

And I, I pride myself on like actually caring about people and that's why they come to me. Um, so I would, you know, rant on YouTube about that kind of thing and I really wanted to get to be a better speaker. So I would, you know, again, I was filming myself every day and it was another way to pour energy into something else. And like you say all the time, like the cure to addiction is connection, but also creation and contribution, right? And so this was my creative outlet. And when I finally figured out, you know, YouTube is ridiculous. It is hard. And it was just something, it was one of those things where I was like, I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna do this. There's a way I can do this and I'm gonna get good at it. Like, it's same thing, right, as before. And so I doubled down on it. And when I figured out that you could change the trajectory of a video by changing the title or the thumbnail on a video, it was game on.

Like, look how you're leaning in. I see your little dopamine's going. I love it.

So I started the YouTube channel about 6 months ago, about the time I've Quit gambling, quit my job, et cetera. And I'm so proud of that thing right now. It was so hard, but, you know, about 6 months into it, I hit 1,000 subscribers on YouTube. 10 days later, I hit 2,000, and today I hit 4,000 subscribers, which is probably 2 weeks after that first 1,000.

You were sober 2 weeks, and at 2 weeks, you were thinking clearly. Made this massive jump. You quit your job. You built a practice in 10 days. Built a practice and built a YouTube channel just because you took the energy that you were spending being like strategic with these games and constantly figuring out how to get ahead of yourself and break your rules and figure out the algorithm of the these casinos. You put that energy to something else, like. Built something massive already.

Again, I just learned so much about myself this year, and I just feel like there's, there's always been this I can do hard things energy about myself, and now I really believe it. You know what I mean? I, I don't mean to sound cocky, but like, truly believe like whatever I wanna do, I think that's about all people, you know, like whatever you want to do, You can do it. Like, it's just a matter of putting in the work.

It's just a matter of putting in the work. I think that was clearly there about you all along. I mean, in your story, you had done that multiple times. You did that when you went to high school. You U-turned your situation. You did that when you switched to medical school. You U-turned your situation. You did that when you decided not to take the offer for the job in Alabama and you decided to go out. You built this Clinic from scratch, being a brand new doctor. It wasn't like you had patients somewhere that followed you over. You built that other practice and then in 10 days you did it again. I think you had it the whole time, but now you know you have it and like, you're like harnessing your Spidey powers, I guess is what I would call it.

Yeah.

Is it still hard, the gambling?

It is. Um, it's getting easier right now with the success on YouTube because I mean, I'm not gonna lie, I thrive off of like validation too. Like, you taught me this, but like I'm an Enneagram 3. Like, you tell me I'm doing a good job and I'm just like, thanks, you know? And people are just like on YouTube commenting like, you don't take insurance? Wow. You know, like, you know, anyway, they're just giving me a lot of validation and I'm not thinking about gambling, probably the least ever for the past week or two, but up till this point, it's been constant. It's been hard. It's not like it just went away. I just, every time I had a craving to gamble, what I ended up doing was taking a left turn and just focusing on what I could do to make another YouTube video. And that was super helpful.

Just to give people some kind of context, I don't know for sure, I'd have to go back and look, but I'm guessing it probably took me 4 years to get the amount of YouTube subscribers that you have right now. I mean, that's like amazing. And a lot of doctors spend their whole career trying to build a practice, and for you to go out and do it in a few months to get to this level, pretty boss. What would you tell people out there who are struggling with some kind of addiction? Have a piece of advice for them or suggestion?

It's a matter of finding what you Can build that you could be proud of. The whole creation thing is so true. Like, I can't emphasize that enough. The connection is very true. Connection was never difficult for me, but connecting about gambling, like, that was a big deal to me. So yes, that's like a foundational thing. And if you're not somebody who doesn't have a group around you, go find a meeting. Like, there's meetings for everything. I've found that out. Go find a meeting because those people will be there for you. Like, I can't say enough about the meetings that I did. Contribution is another thing. To me, I'm a doctor, that's, it's almost a given. It just is. But the creation piece for me was the piece that I was—

That was the missing piece.

Yeah.

And the creation piece is important because as human beings, it's really a spiritual need. We're the only animals on the planet that have the ability to create. That's what makes us special and different. And when we're not doing that, we feel sort of depressed, sort of sick. Like, we don't realize it's a spiritual thing, but that's what it is. Like, if we're disconnected from everybody else, it's a human need. And when you're not meeting it, you're not your best.

Yeah. And that's where you get some hits of dopamine too, right? Like, I create YouTube videos and that just drives me to do more because I get that hit. But I've also done a few other things too. And I've told you many times that cold plunging is a big deal to me, and I do that almost every day.

Yeah.

But it's, it gives you like pure dopamine when you get out of it. And so it's just a matter of trading in the things that you used to get pleasure from. If they were not serving you, you can find new things that do.

Right. And a lot of people might be listening They go, I'm not creative because maybe they don't paint pictures or something. But there's so many ways to be creative. It's like when you make something with your hands, when you do something like I'm kind of like crafty. So when I like, I'm sort of like Pinteresty or whatever, I do that. It's creative. Like building a business is creative. Like there's a lot of ways. It's about doing something yourself, you know, growing a garden. There's this sense of pride. There's this sense of I did that. It's cool. So your advice, do creative connection, contribution, and cold plunging. It's another C. It works perfect. The 4th, we'll have to change it to the 4 Cs now. Okay. All right. Thank you so much, Ashley, for coming to talk to us. Where can people find your YouTube channel? Because I think you have a couple of videos on there about addiction.

I do. I mean, I threw them into the mix just to be honest and authentic with people. They don't get a ton of views. But it's okay. I'm still— I think I'm a little bit proud of it because the more people I tell about my addiction, they kind of lean in, you know what I mean? So it helps. But it's— my channel's called This Is Not Covered, kind of a play on words on, you know, the insurance world and also things that most doctors don't like to talk about.

And do you want to tell us the name of your practice and where it is in case people want to find you?

It's in Mesa, Arizona, and it's East Valley Direct Primary Care.

Thank you, Ashley.

Thank you. I'm craving and I don't know what to do. I just thought I'd make a video about it, I guess. I sent an email to shut down all my active gambling accounts this week and I, you know, copied my addiction coach on it, and, you know, that was that. I had 2 really good days, days where, you know, even though I'm pretty sure I have a pretty bad problem, on those days when I can put it down, I don't feel like I have a problem anymore. And so it's confusing to me because I don't understand that. But day 3, here Here we are, and I'm just reminded constantly about memories, gambling, casinos. Even the stupidest little things will remind me of games that I used to play. And I'm sure, you know, other online slot players can relate to this, but like cartoons will make you think of old games that that you liked, you know, cowboy hats, shot glasses, Vikings. I was sitting at the table with my son eating his lunch, and I had cut up some orange slices for him. And the orange slice made me think of a game that, that I used to play. And it was probably the first game that triggered an addiction for me. And that really, at that point, I was ready to go looking For a way to log on to a site. And I don't know if I have intentions of playing or just looking and seeing if my accounts actually got shut down or what, but here I am. I've done some really stupid shit today. I've plugged in a 10-year-old iPad that won't even work when I get it up and running, but I thought maybe I'd just try. I have a really old laptop too that I can't find the charger to. I tore apart my house a few weeks ago trying to find the charger for that. I can't find it. So then my head goes to, well, maybe I'll just get on Amazon and buy a charger for it and, uh, just wait a day. Then I thought about, well, maybe I'll tell my neighbor who is holding a tablet of mine that I bought just for gambling. Maybe I will tell her that I don't have a problem anymore or that I'm far along enough in my recovery that I don't— that I can have it back, right? So again, some really stupid, stupid things are going through my head and I've done some stupid things today already about this and here's my problem. I don't know what to Because, you know, I looked up cravings and somebody suggested something called urge surfing. And so I looked into that, got on YouTube, saw this addiction expert talking about it. And, you know, she says cravings only last 10 to 20 minutes. But— and I've heard my addiction coach say that too— but like, my cravings do not last 20 minutes. They last for days, and I don't understand why I cannot get over it. Like, I can distract myself pretty darn well, but it just goes on and on and on, day by day by day, and then I just give in. And that's what happened, you know, a week and a half ago when I relapsed. Like, I just gave in. There's no rhyme or reason to it. I just— I was tired that day, and I'd had a enough of trying to fight that urge, right? Here I am back at that kind of moment again where the cravings are starting again. And what am I going to do 2, 3 days from now when I just decide to give in? I don't know. I don't know what to do differently here. I don't know what the next move is. So that's where I'm at.