The truth about living as a functional alcoholic

Like living as a functional alcoholic is like having the best of both worlds. You can drink, you can have fun, you can party and you can have everything else in your life all at the same time. But that's not exactly the whole truth to the story. We're going to dive a lot deeper into that subject today about what is the truth about living as a functional alcoholic. In fact, what's the difference between a functional addict alcoholic and a non functional addiction addict and alcoholic, what does it mean for the person and what does it mean for their family members and their loved ones? We have special guest with us here today, family recovery specialist Campbell Manning. Campbell has all the professional and personal experience to speak on this topic. Campbell, welcome.

Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Yeah, glad you're here. What do you, let's, let's get right into it. What do you think? How would you describe what a functional addict, functional alcoholic is?

Well, so technically what I think is that, that they're, that they're flip flop because a functional alcoholic in my opinion is someone who needs to use, needs to drink to function. As in I've got to have a couple beers in the morning, I can get to work, I get maybe another cocktail at lunch, sneak a mini bottle in around 3 o', clock, get home and keep drinking. I need to keep that going so I don't go into withdrawal.

Okay.

Versus a non functioning would be I just drink a lot or use a lot, but I can still function. So to me it's kind of like what you said yesterday. It's really the difference between stage three and stage four addiction.

Right. So it's like it's still in your mind is still an alcoholic, but they're basically, it's somebody who's still able to sort of go to work, make money, go to school, if it's school. You know, they're still able to do nothing, not everything in their life but, but they're, they're juggling some of their balls effectively.

Definitely they're going to get enough done that's going to keep them in denial because we hear this all the time which is like I don't know why my wife is bitching. Like I have a good job, we have a nice house, we have three cars. Like I don't know why she's bitching because he doesn't see that he's preoccupied with drinking to the point that he doesn't want to go to restaurants that don't have alcohol or doesn't want to go to events that don't have them. Or he doesn't participate at his children's birthday parties because he's at Lowe's picking up lumber and a sixpack.

I'm really glad you said that because it's such an important thing. It does. Being a functional addict or alcoholic does keep a person in denial because they feel like, I can't possibly be an alcoholic, can't possibly be an addict. Like, I go to work, I'm making money, you know, I pay my bills, I. Whatever, I'm passing my classes. And it keeps them stuck in denial. But. But that's because they haven't dropped that one ball yet. But usually if you're to this level that you, you would fall into this category, you are dropping some balls. And the first ones you're dropping are usually at home and in relationships. And so what happens is, is it's the people closest to you, the ones that live with you, that are going to see it first.

Yeah, well, and I also would add that they're. They're dropping balls of things that they would, without drinking, choose to do. Like, yes, build a bunk bed or write a book or clean out, take the Christmas tree down. But now I'm drinking, so I'm not going to do those things. But those things usually matter to them, so they get away with them. Then it goes to the relationship. Like, I thought you were going to take the tree down. Oh, yeah, well, I'll do it tonight and another night because I'm just going to drink again tonight so that you're right.

Right. So it's like, maybe you're still going to work, maybe you're still going to class. But are you really being the best husband, brother, you know, wife, sister? Are you, are you bringing your aame to your relationships? And then that creates a problem because the first, that's sort of the first consequences that start happening is like the people closest to you get mad at you, and then that makes you think, well, I don't have an addiction problem. I don't have a drug or alcohol problem. I have a problem, a spouse problem, you know, a teacher problem, a boss problem. Because you, it seems like they're always mad at you, which will feel to you like, why are they so critical? Why are they never happy with anything I do? Why are they always want more from me? And, and you don't see that that person is upset with you and that relationship is damaged because you're dropping the ball in the context of that relationship, 100%. But because you haven't dropped the other ones yet, you feel like it's them and not you. And that keeps you stuck. Yeah.

And just, it just feeds that victim role, which. Or the gaslighting, because everybody else in the world is happy with me. I don't know why you're squawking at me, honey. And so then they gaslight you back at which just for the spouse or partner. So frustrating.

Right. And then they get, they get caught in that cycle of cat and mouse and you know, who's the villain and who's the good guy and. And then that trap just sort of like digs the hole deeper. Obviously.

It also. Unless you argue about those, those things like the Christmas tree versus the alcohol.

Right. Yeah. I found that even for family members, it goes on for a long time, for years before they even realize what the problem really is. Because they may think, well, it's, it's this. It's that. It's this temporary problem at work. It's their childhood trauma. It's this whatever, you know, like they're just having a hard time adjusting. But it takes a while for people to connect the dots to. It's actually coming from the substance. And one of the reasons why it's so hard to connect that dot is because a lot of times it's an indirect connection. If you get intoxicated on something and you do something stupid, you connect that dot, you realize there's, you realize that alcohol made you act like a jerk. You realize that you spent your whole paycheck on cocaine or whatever. Like, it's clear what you've lot of times miss when you're in this functioning category is like this. The next day stuff that you're, that you are sort of half ass at work, that you're grumpy to your kids and sort of on them all the time, and that you're irritable. And you probably. You might not connect that to the addiction because it's, it's, it's an aftermath.

It's a peripheral effect that you don't see because your addiction doesn't want you to see it.

Right. And a lot of times people don't even know that that's why they're so irritable, that that's why they're so anxious. That's why everything gets under their skin. It's why they sort of don't have as much resilience. They think the substance is helping, but the substance is actually making your resiliency, your ability to think clear less and less and less. And so these are the reasons why it's so hard to get people to see the issue. And the functional part is the problematic part.

It is the problematic part. Like, we see it constantly, and even we hear from them, like, I don't know why I'm here. Like, I have a great job, and my. My wife is just crazy. And then the other one of us meets with the wife. We're like, oh, that's the greatest wife ever. She's not crazy at all. He's a severe alcoholic.

Right. Well, she's probably crazy a little bit, but let's just say there's a reason.

There's a. There's a very solid reason. She's a little bit crazy.

There's a reason. Right? And. And I guess that kind of connects me, Campbell, to the. The method that we use, the invisible intervention method that we use, which is to turn that scenario upside down, which is to make the family member not the bad guy anymore, step number one. But also the other piece of that formula is to allow the functionality to show itself for real. Because what happens is the family members are on your butt. They're criticizing you, they're nagging you, but they're making sure your bills get paid, and they're making sure you showed up to your kids ball game, and they're making sure you turn your final paper.

They're driving you to the ball game so that you can be there.

And then. And then they're like, why can't they say it's a problem? Right? Because you're. Because as the family member, you're. You're creating this picture that where it's. It's making them think I'm functioning fine, all these other balls are fine.

And, and for spouses, Amber. I think it's harder for spouses or partners because. Especially if there are children involved, because they can't really allow that unmanageability as. As easily as like a parent of a kid of a 20 year old. Because then what about the children? And John won't have his dad at the ball game, or John will see that dad's passed out at the table versus, like, dad's sick and dad's like, dude, go upstairs and get in bed and I'm gonna cover your ass. And so it. That delays it even further, I think, first for the spouses and parent partners.

Right? And I think that's whether there's children involved in general, whether it's one of the. The partners who has the substance problem, and then the other partner feels like they have to protect the kids, which sometimes means enabling the spouse. But also if it's your. If it's your kid that has a kid.

Oh, gosh, that's right.

Anytime there's kids involved, this becomes infinitely more complicated about what balls do you let drop and which ones do you don't.

I actually had this question on the. On our meetup yesterday for the membership, and. And this woman was like, we're talking about unmanageability. And she said, yeah, but I feel like if I do that, then my kids will suffer. And we're like, okay, so if you could pick out five things that you could do, maybe do the first one and two to protect the kids and maybe let three, four, and five go. And she's like, that makes sense. Let it roll to this degree or to this.

Okay, so you're saying let it go this far. Or I think you could also say, I can let these balls fall, but not these strategically, because I can protect.

The children to this degree. And then that's it.

Right, but what do you think about sort of. I mean, you. It's a complicated subject, this kid thing, but like, should you protect them from knowing that the other's parent, whatever, has the problem when. When the other parent, if they say something, do something that hurts their feelings? Did you say, well, you know, Daddy loves you? He didn't really mean that. Like, where does that fall in the enable.

That's. That's a massive question. I think, first of all, it depends to a large degree on the ages of the children. I think 10 and up, they can understand that dad has a problem, you know, three and four. No, but I don't think you should sort of go against, like, what you just gave. Like, well, you know, daddy loves you and he didn't mean it. I think you should say, I'm sorry Daddy said that, but he did say it. And so I don't think you should minimize that. I think the age of the children is paramount in that decision though.

Right. Because in some ways, and I. And actually heard somebody else say this, it's another YouTuber that does mental health stuff and I never thought about it before, but it's like, if you're constantly told things like that, you know, you know, you know, your mom really loves you, you know this, and. But they're treating you badly. It's a form of gaslighting, actually.

Well, it's training them also to be in an unhealthy relationship pervasively in life because they didn't. Maybe they didn't really mean it.

Recognize, right. When something's out of bounds. So it's this delicate balance of, you know, we don't want to, we don't want to villainize the other parent. We don't want to hurt the relationship any more than it is. But it's hard, it's hard to make all these decisions when you're living with or caring about someone who has a functional alcoholism or addiction problem.

Yep.

Is it possible to be a functional addict? Because you hear about functional alcoholism a lot, but you don't hear much, you don't hear that term as much. Is that a thing?

I think to a degree, yes. To a, to the greatest degree, no. I mean we hear all the time kids are smoking a ton of weed but they're still going to school, they're still working, they're just, you know, but eventually those balls do drop. I think it goes faster with, with drugs than with alcohol. Unless like young, the younger they are, it's, they're more in line like as a 14 year old is drinking a ton of is going to be just as bad as a 17 year old coke user. But the adults, because if they started later, that whole pleasure pathway gets stolen slower and slower and slower than an adolescent because of the dopamine thing.

Right. And when they're young, they don't, they don't even have the skills to manage all those things already don't have those.

I call those safety nets. They don't have a house, they don't have a job, they don't have a car. Eventually because the parents say you can't drive a car and if they're like me, eventually you can't live here. So they really don't. They lose those safety nets so that unmanageability becomes faster than for an adult who's in charge of the safety nets.

Exactly. Yeah. So, so the younger the person is when they use, the faster they're going to be non functional. I 100% agree with that.

And then therefore the faster we can leverage them into treatment.

Right.

Super hard to leverage your, your husband or your wife into treatment because they are probably co own the home, their name's on all the joint bank accounts. You don't have much leverage. Which is why I think it's really difficult to be the spouse.

But in some ways I think it's easier to get an adult to see the consequences because kids almost feel impervious or entitled for everything to be fixed or you know, managed for them and stuff like that. So it's hard I think to get a kid to sort of see that they need to take the responsibility yeah.

But I see that same thing happening with some of the adult alcoholics because they just, they just gaslight the spouse or gaslight their boss or gaslight their co workers and. Or I didn't pass that exam because the weather was terrible and I was.

Oh, yeah, there's always a reason.

There's always a reason. So I think it, I don't know that neither one is good.

Neither one is good. Right, Agreed. Agreed. But one of the, one of the ways that I see sort of functional attic kind of a lot as people are addicted to pain pills, they will not only be functional for several years, they'll be better. They'll be, they'll. They'll like make the honor roll. They will get star key employee because it actually makes them function better for the first several years. But eventually it gets to the point that they can't financially keep up with the substance. They can't get enough of it. And then all their energy goes towards obtaining the substance.

And so therefore I have to steal and I can't go to school because I have to go out deal to get my money. Yeah. The finances on the opiate problem, I think is what grabs them at the end.

Right. It's the chasing of the substance. The substance itself doesn't necessarily make someone non functional. And I think that too is why it's easier to miss that as a family member. Because they don't look intoxicated, they don't smell funny, they don't slur, they don't forget, they don't have the same memory issues when they're in those first few years of an opiate type addiction. So I feel like they are very functional. They're better.

Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I had someone got into Duke while using a ton of pain pills.

Same thing with stimulants. Same kind of thing. So there are certain substances that do make you more functional for a while. And that's another reason too, why it's so hard to stop them. Because you're. Your brain constantly remembers when it worked for you so well and a lot of times why it's really hard to give up one of those kind of substances because you're trying not to drop the balls. And now it's gotten to the point that you cannot go to work, you cannot go to like, you literally can't get out of bed unless you have it. And so you're like trying so hard to stay functional. And that's where it comes into functional. Addict, alcoholic. Now I need it in order to be able to go and do these.

Things, to be able to function, I must be using.

Right.

But even then, as long as you can procure it and get away with your procurement method, you're gonna keep going.

Oh, yeah, yeah. As long as you can keep most of the balls in the air. Right. Then you're gonna. Because it's worked for you. We want to do what works even if it's difficult, you know, because we're used to it. It's hard to see honestly how difficult it is or how bad you feel or, you know, how, how bad the situation is to you.

Yeah. That addiction that lives in the survival part of the brain is not going to turn on that flashlight and let you see it. It's in fact going to turn the flashlight off so you don't see it.

Right. If you're. This is kind of a thing. I, I don't know. I don't really know if people say this a lot, but I get the impression people think it a lot is like, it's almost like if I'm a functional addict or alcoholic, I'm not really an addict or an alcoholic. I'm really just a heavy drinker. Or, you know, it's. It's like they, they may even call themselves that or say the word. But. But there's this sort of dismissiveness that it's not really that problem.

But that's. To me, that's human nature, like gaining weight, all those things. It's like, yeah, but my pants still fit. Oh, but I still can wear my Lululemon pants. Like. And then all of a sudden you're like, holy God, I don't even know who I am. But that's the brain rationalizing to get that dopamine.

Right. And honestly, what is really happening is you're just. What I would say is you're just an addict or alcoholic who hasn't lost everything yet. But you're on your way. Right. Like, there is only one end of that. Like, because the, the thing about addiction is it doesn't level off or plateau.

Oh, no.

And if you're either going to address the issue and stop and get under control or you're going to move into the non functional. But a lot of people think I'm not. Or, or even they're not that kind of alcoholic. As if there's like, as if there's these two categories instead of understanding that it really is just stages of one issue and that they're just a stage before the other issue.

Yeah, I think that's true of a pervasive amount of people in the world is, well, I'm not that bad. Like John, you know, he had. He got a dui, he's got a problem. But, you know, my wife is mad at me, and I've missed four days of work so far this month, and it's only the ninth, but no one said anything, so it's okay.

Right, right. And, and, and honestly, I wouldn't have a. A problem with that thought of I'm not that bad, because in some. In some ways that's true. Right. But when people say I'm not that bad, the real translation behind that is I don't need to stop completely. When you're trying to say I'm not that kind of addict or alcoholic. Yeah. All you're really trying to say is, I can still figure out how to do this manageably. That's what the translation is, whether it's the family member or the person trying to not see the issue. Because when a lot of the people I see, they. Most of the people I see fall into the functional category. And, and I would say you're right. You're not that bad. You have not gone that far, but you will.

That's why, to be honest, like, here we are in January, dry January, and there's a billion people who need to go to treatment who are going to successfully, although not prettily, make it through die January, which means in February, they don't have a problem whatsoever. And we're now on rinse and repeat.

Oh, yeah, that's the. Oh, I'm going to prove to myself that I. I'm not an addict.

I just spent 30 days about drink. I was a total ass and fought, picked a lot of fights, but by God, I made it.

Or even sometimes I think with the draw January, it's like I went to 30 days, and I actually ended up eventually feeling a lot better and feeling more motivated and functioning better. But then February comes and I'm like, pick it. I mean, pick it right up. Like, making up for lost time, like, literally February 1st or whatever. And then. And then all the chaos comes back.

It's just like the reverse of. I was talking to a young client of mine yesterday. He was going to treatment today. And I said, well, what's on your dentist? And he literally looked at me on zoom and he goes, I'm drinking. I got to stop tomorrow. So it's almost the opposite of that for dry January is I made it through, therefore I can drink versus I'm drinking, because I can't tomorrow.

Right, yeah. No, you're right. You're right. So the hope there is. That's one of the things I wanted to ask, because when you're saying a functional alcoholic is someone who needs to use to function, I think a functional alcoholic can go days without it and they can still function, but it's not very well. I think it's.

Again, it's a variance on stage three and stage four, or end stage three to end stage four. By end stage four, you're not getting out of bed without using.

Oh, yeah.

I had a client. It was a heroine. He wasn't really a client who's a friend of a friend, but. And he was a heroin user, and he was cutting hair for really upscale salon in the city that he lived in. And he called me one day, said, hey, I need some help. Do you. Can you call me back later on? I was like, sure, what's going on? He said, I've really got to stop using heroin. I said, well, why do you say that? Not that one would have to say that, but I was trying to meet him where he was, and he said, because I make about 400 an hour, and I am shooting heroin eight times from 9am to 5 to go out there and cut that hair. And to me, that's when I was like, that's a functioning addict. Yeah, I have to use to function. I think the words can be interchanged because clearly he's not functioning. So I can align with your verbiage.

Yeah, I think it's. It's interesting because in some ways you can be a functional addict better than you can be a functional alcoholic, because when you drink too much, you're not really able to function very well. So because you're intoxicated, you know, you're. You're like, literally impaired. So. Which is different than some of the substances, right?

Yeah. But you pop a Loratab and you all of a sudden feel better. You're going to go out and just be fine for another two or three hours.

Right, Right, right, right. So to me, it's like most of the time when you deal with alcoholism, it's like, I'm still going to work, but I'm literally stopping at the store on the way home. I'm drinking four in the car on the way home before I get there, because I know my wife doesn't like it. And then when I get home and put the others in the fridge and I'm going to drink those two, and when she gets in my case, I'm going to say, oh, My gosh, I had two beers. What is your problem? That's what that is.

And I might do that, but I also might need to go to the grocery store to get dog food around 10, because I already done drank the ones in the garage that were my late night sweet place, right?

And when that's happening, it's because it's like, I. I promise myself I'm only gonna drink or use this much. And, and. And then when that's going on, it's like the purpose. The person is purposefully only buying a limited amount with the intention of only drinking so much. Like, a lot of times I see people won't buy only the mini bottles because it's very measured, right? And it's like, okay, I'm gonna allow myself this mini or whatever, but it. They don't stick to it. And then it's more dangerous because they end up getting in the car like you said and going back to the store.

Do you remember that guy we saw years ago when I was still an intern? And he was. Came in, he was like, I'm gonna go camping. And you were like, oh, okay, buddy. I think about the camp because I know, I know you think camp is a trigger, but I'm not gonna drink. Not gonna drink. We're like, okay, great. We talk about it. We see him. See you next week. We don't see this dude for like three more weeks. And I'm just the lowly intern on the little black rolling chair, so I don't even say a word. He comes crawling in like a month later, and you were like, dude, where have you been? He was like, remember my camping trip? You're like, yeah. He says, yeah. So I decided I would just take like three beers on the trip. And I was just gonna get there, set up my tent. I was gonna drink the beers and I was gonna be set because I wasn't gonna be able to drive anymore because it's a long way down the mountain. It'll be dark. Well, I drank those three beers on the way up the mountain, and then I passed a little store so that I'll just get three more to drink while I'm there because this is going really well. He gets up there, he sets up the tent, he drinks three beers, and he decides he'll drive back down the mountain to get some more. And he gets a DUI and is in jail and can't come talk to you.

Right? I call that sort of the. The. Some. The Amazon guy must be out there or something. But I call that the Special circumstance. It's like, well, in this situation, and a lot of times it's like on vacation or. Or when I'm camping or sometimes, like, I find that flying on airplanes is a special circumstance because I'm not going to be driving. I mean, there's a few things that kind of. People tend to bargain with a lot.

Oh, beach trips, holidays, vacation, Sunday, Super Bowl. It's just never ending.

If someone is questioning to themselves, Emma, a functional addict or alcoholic, how would they know? Like, what. What would be the signs and symptoms that if this is happening, you're probably in the category.

I personally think if you're questioning it, you probably are. So there's that. But I think that you have to be able to be analytically truthful with yourself and say, are there things that I want to do that I'm not getting done because of this? Are the relationships that I'd like to be fostering with or building, but I'm not doing it because of this. I think if you could catch it at that point, you could catch it before it was a problem. Those balls are still be yourself balls. I don't think many people have that skill. And so then it's, did I fall down at that party? Did I get funny looks as we were leaving the party? Did my husband say, you drank too much? Or, you know, you have to start adding those things up and say, if there's more than two of those, probably have a problem.

Yeah, and I. I would probably. Those are some of the earlier, early, early signs. And. And I. It would be awesome if people could catch that. Another one I would add, too, is, is that you can't consistently control it. And I try not to tell people like you, I don't say you can't control it because most of the time they can sometimes, but they can't do it consistently and they can't do it predictably. So it's like there are. There are weeks or days or whatever where they'll go and they'll set these limits and they'll stay right within the limits. But there will be. The dam will break, and when it breaks, bad crap is going to happen.

Yeah.

And so. And then it's like this promise, okay. Like, go back to the plan. Go back to the plan. Go back to the plan frequently, and you're breaking your promises to yourself more than once, you know, is happening on a regular. Then you're probably in the category.

Absolutely. But the good old alcoholic is not going to recognize that they're going to find a special reason that, that, that happened.

Right. And that what they're going to label it is binge drinking. I can tell you right now they're gonna say, well, I'm not alcoholic, I'm a binge drinker. Which is, which is a phase of the alcoholism. I mean I get like, maybe you're in college and you're just binge drinking on purpose. Okay, I'm gonna give you that one.

Yeah.

But when you're fine that you're not. That you're binge drinking but you're not intending to.

Or you're binge drinking alone, everyone else went home or went to bed and you're, you're doing it alone. You're like, okay, everyone else went to bed at midnight and I stayed up till 4 and drank another bottle of wine.

Right. Some of the people I see only drink alone. They like literally don't drink socially. And the reason is, is because they know they're going to over drink and they don't want other people to see them in that state. And they know if they do drink, it's going to go to that point. So they literally do not drink socially.

Yeah, yeah. And then everyone's surprised. I also think a lot of people who drink alone get stuff done. It's almost to the opiate thing. Like, you know, I'll stay up and have a glass of wine, but I'll get all the ironing done or I'll mop the kitchen floor while I have another glass of wine or I'll, I'll work on the Christmas list or whatever. And so it's a, that's really slows it down because yes, I drank too much, but look at what I got done is that was so functional.

Right?

Not only functional, I'm exceptional because I got all that stuff done while my husband was upstairs sleeping.

Oh yeah. My guys that drink, they like their yards look fabulous because they love to work in the yard because it's like a whole day of like free packs pass. And not only do you get the free pass, but like you get like.

The points because you get credit.

Yeah, you get the credit, the neighbor credit, the wife. Yeah. So. So some of those functional things if when we have something very functional attached to addictive use becomes more difficult to see like what you're saying, but it also becomes productivity.

Yeah, the productivity puts blinders on you.

Yeah. Because a lot of times in the summer I say, well, you're going to pay someone to mow your yard this summer, you're gonna have to get a pool boy. This Summer, we'll talk about it again next time. Yeah, yeah. Do you have. Do you have to hop off? Do you have a client right now, Campbell?

I do.

Well, you do.

Oh, I do. Darn, man, that was a fast 30 minutes.

It was fast. All right, I don't want to make you lay. I'll let you go. I'll stay on and I'll. I'll answer a couple of these little questions here for people showed up. But thank you for hanging out.

Gosh, thanks for having me.

That was fun.

All right, bye, guys.

Bye, Campbell.

How do I get out of here now? Stream.

Let's see. Let me get you out of here. Okay, you're out. Alrighty, here. Let's see if we've got some questions, some comments. If you're watching live and you do have a question, put the word question in front or some question marks. It helps me to see it faster to know that. That you're trying to get my attention and ask a question. And. And I will tell you that there's only so many lines it'll let you put in the live chat. So if it's really long, what happens is it'll. It'll post the first part and then break it up. And then sometimes it's a little bit hard for me to find the other piece of it. Let's answer some questions. Good morning, Gail. Good morning, Jennifer. See, RH Is here. Black candles here. Hello, Cynthia. Hello, Tyen. Let's see. Looking for a question. Here we go. Nalisha says, my ex's family is in deep denial about my addict or alcoholic husbands addiction. Despite all of the messages and abuse, he, like, he's likely to stay stuck if the family system can't see it. Despite two DUIs, loss of job, legal issues. Yes. And this is a very, very, very common issue when you're dealing with someone who's sort of in this functional category, because as the spouse, the person that lives with them, you see it and other people don't. What they see is, this person's functioning and let me shut my door. And so not only do they say, well, this person's functioning, but then they see you being mad at this person. And that leads the family to think, well, she's the problem. And then they think, well, if they're drinking too much, it's like she's driving them to it. And then it is so maddening as the. The spouse to be in that situation, because, yeah, it's like the other family members and. And they don't. They're not doing on purpose because they don't really realize what they're doing. But they're being naive. They're being sort of buying into something that's not true. But it is very frustrating as the, as the spouse, because the addicted person will split them against you. They'll go over there and talk. You know, she's just never happy. She's always criticizing me. And then that gets the other family members to validate even more and all that kind of stuff. Sristy says my addicted husband has an on and off pattern of drinking since 3 to 5, 4 to 5 months. He's been seeing a doctor and has been seeing recovery videos. Today he came home drunk and called a friend a recovering addict and spoke about his addiction. He asked me to push him to journal if he misses it, can you please help me unpack his heart without minimizing or making anyone the bad guy? His friend suggested to him to start journaling post this. And hugged me and cried and said, I don't deserve your love. He journaled and he spoke to for an hour about what is happening to him. So it's kind of like he's in the stages of change. He's trying to work on it, but he keeps falling back. And what you're saying is he fell back in this incident. I don't believe it was today or yesterday or something, but he fell back. He was intoxicated, but he called his friend and he's talking to you about. He's basically saying, I don't want to be like this. I don't want to keep doing this. I think journaling helps me. Please help hold me accountable for the journaling. And in a big sense of the way, trustee. I think this is great. This is wonderful change talk. And even if he's slipping, it's like there's a sincere desire to change there. But I want you to be careful about this. Hold me accountable for the journaling thing. Here's what I want you to ask them. I want you to say, how can I help hold you accountable with the journaling thing? Because what's happening is that he doesn't do it. And then you say, hey, you're supposed to be doing journaling. And the next thing you know, he's mad at you and he asked you to do it. We see that kind of thing pretty commonly. I, I feel like when the family members in the accountability role, it's. It's unfair to the family member because it ends up being there being the bad guy when they're only really doing what's asked. So if you're gonna do that, I would clarify what's the best way for me to approach you? Do you want me to ask you every day? Do you want me it up if I think you're not doing it? Do you want me to ask you what you journal like and then make him give you some instructions at least so that he can't sort of get so upset with you and blame you and say, you're being mean to me, you're criticizing me, you're on my butt or whatever, you know, because that could come. And then lastly, I'll say on this too is sometimes when people are intoxicated, it's the time when they'll say they know they need to change. And then when they're not intoxicated, they may not remember that they said that, or they may take it back because they're in withdrawal. And then that's that like fear buttons being pushed. Like, oh my gosh, never mind, I can't do this. You know, I can't go to rehab, I can't stop. And then they can change their mind, which is also super difficult to watch. As a family member, Big Phone Nation says, how can we know if someone you love has a drinking problem? I would say, does the drinking cause them problems? If the drinking is causing them problems and they're still doing it and it's causing more and more problems, then they have a drinking problem. It's probably like a simple way, but it's a pretty. If you want to look at it and sort of figure it out and say if it's in this category or not, that would be the thing. It's not how much or how often it's does it cause problems? I'm so tired of my addicted husband's anger. Does anger management not work if someone is an active addiction? Yes, that is correct. There. There is no active. There's no anger management that's going to work when someone's pouring chemicals on their brain and making their brain chemistry go up and down and they're taking their filter off. Like, anger management requires self reflection. It requires you to use skills. It requires you to use self discipline and resist urges. And, and when you're intoxicated and you're using substances, your urges and impulses, the volume on that is turned way up and your ability, your frontal lobe ability to resist those impulses turn right down. So no, anger management will not work if someone's inactivity addiction. I like it when I can give a clear answer because some of These. Some of these questions are so gray. Kate B. Says, my boyfriend relapsed to weed, then alcohol, and I'm in the bad guy roll again. Do I need to repair that or just back away now while he works on his sobriety? You can do either. Backing away needs to be for you, though. So if you're thinking, do I need to back away for him? Like, somehow, would it make him better? Is it what he needs? It's probably not necessarily what he needs, but it might be what you need, so. So you need to answer the. The questions kind of separately. Backing away should be something you're doing for you because, I mean, there's a lot of. Because there's a lot of reasons why that could be. I'm sure. I'm sure you know what they are. Do you need to repair that? It depends. If you're deciding that you don't want to back away, that you do want to sort of stay in an active relationship with this person and you're trying to help them get out of this addiction, then you need to repair the bad guy roll. So I'm not telling you should do that. I'm just telling you if that's what you're wanting to do, that's the step in the right direction. Doctor Howard says I joined the membership because I need help. Feel foolish as a psychologist to have lived this. Hey, welcome. I'm glad you're in our membership. Are you trying out our five day, no more Mr. Vaga challenge? Because that is. That's really going well. I really like it. We're having a lot of good results with it. And don't feel foolish going through this, being a person in the field, because I can tell you tomorrow, this could happen to me, this could happen to my son. This can happen to anyone. And. And I promise you, even knowing everything I know, I will fall into the traps of doing the wrong things some of the time. So it doesn't make you immune. Being in this field doesn't make you immune. You shouldn't. You shouldn't feel bad about it. What you should feel is at least glad that you're in the field and you know how to find resources. And you. And you probably have more skills, and you probably do have. You're gonna get the answers faster because you already know about half of them. At least half of them. And then you say your ex always drinks alone. Friends and family don't believe you. It's so hard. I know, right? And they'll literally go to, like, their co workers of the people and be like, can you believe my wife thinks I'm an alcoholic? And they'll literally tell your loved one, oh my gosh, she's crazy. You don't drink near as much as me. Like, well, I've never even seen you drink because they don't have the front row seat. Isn't it maddening? I can tell you one piece of advice here, and you probably already know this, but some other people might not know this. Whatever you do, do not try to go to those people and convince them that your husband is an alcoholic. That will enrage your spouse more than anything else you could do. They're going to see that as completely disloyal. It's like one of those things that sometimes they just won't even forgive even after they get sober. And then also it doesn't ever work because the, the storyline that your spouse is telling them is that you're critical, that you're overreactor, that you're this. And so when you do that, it almost validates that person's story that they've set up. So whatever you do, I know it is frustrating, but don't try to go tell them. The only way those other people are going to see it is to see it. Like they're going to have to see it themselves. Ivan and Lydia says, how do I know when it's appropriate to talk to your loved one about the addiction? When they are functioning but also under the influence, will anything we say resonate? That's a. Most people would say, no, you cannot talk to someone under the influence. And in general, if I had to give you a black and white answer, that's what I would tell you. If it's alcohol and they're under the influence, even more, probably not, because a lot of times they won't even remember it. If it's stimulant or a pain pill or something like that, that doesn't necessarily mess with their memory. Sometimes it can be okay to do that, but you're going to be talking to someone who's not running on all cylinders. So the best time is to try to catch them when they're at their most sober, which a lot of times is either like in the morning or in the early part of the day for a lot of people. So try to catch them when they're. Sometimes you can't catch them sober because they're never all the way sober. But get them at their soberist if you're gonna do that. And then that's the time. But then how you have that conversation is difficult. We got a lot of videos on here about how to do it, so make sure you watch those before you do it, because you don't want to go in the front door on this. You want to go in the side door on this. Jesse has an urgent question here. My question is, is it possible to use the craft method on an ex girlf that doesn't live with or communicate me anymore? She's currently living with her BF who is giving her meth. No, it is not possible to use the craft method. The craft method is all about positive reinforcement and relationship building. And so you have to. It works best if they live with you. They don't have to live with you, but you have to have, like, regular talk and communication, like, multiple times a week. I would say for this to work or I guess, like, be their counselor, but you got to have, like, a regular relationship. If this person is in a relationship with someone else, they're not talking to you. They're in a relationship with someone else who's giving them the drug. It's not going to work. I'm sorry. If you do have communication with them or you do interact with them, it's still a good way to inter interact with someone. It's a good way to interact with anyone, really, because it's going to be you doing what's right. But. But I wouldn't expect for it to be effective if you're. That if there's that much distance as far as getting them to make a change. Let's see here. Question. What if they believe drinking is better than pills and they can handle it? Believing bathing is a chore and rarely does it. Is this beyond help that I can give? Do we need a real intervention? This is a good question. This is what I would call a bargaining phase. So it's like if somebody's addicted to, like, multiple things and they maybe one thing is causing more unmanageability faster, which a lot of times, like, harder drugs will cause the problems happen faster. So the person says, oh, it's this thing that's the problem. And so they quit, like the pills or the hard drug or whatever it is. But they think, well, drinking has not really been a problem for me. That's not gonna work. Because what's happened is they've learned to use the pills to not cope with life. And if they're just immediately gonna put the alcohol in, they're gonna use the alcohol to not cope with life. They're not even given a chance to sort of develop coping skills or Anything else. So that's definitely not going to work. And what you'. If it's to the point that they're not bathing, then my guess is it's to the point that they're probably falling into this non functional category. And the further into the non functional category they get, the closer I think you should move towards doing like an old school type of intervention. When they're more in the functional category. I think an old school intervention is counterproductive. I think you should do like the invisible intervention, the craft method, something like that. So I hope that helps. Bianca says my husband is a highly functioning alcoholic cocaine user. He's highly respected at the workplace, but totally different at home. Has been this way since he is 15 years old. We've been together 14 years, four kids, and he's been this way our whole relationship. He tried to stop so many times and says he can do it himself, but of course he's had no success. How can I help? Whenever they say I can do it myself? One of the things I like to set up as I say, okay, let's try that. But if that doesn't work, will you agree to at least talk to a counselor or get an assessment or get, you know, do an Iop, so sort of get their agreement up front? That doesn't guarantee that they're going to follow through with doing that. But you're, you're sort of setting expectation. Yes, I believe in you. I believe you can do this yourself. I'm going to give you this opportunity. But hey, if we're proven that that's not working, can we do something else? And a lot of times they'll say yes, and, and, and a lot of times it to, it kind of forces them to say, okay, she let me try it my way multiple times and it didn't work and it's not working. Maybe I should do. See here, Tara says, my husband is telling me that he's slowing down and he's on his way to not using, but I can tell he's still using. Is this change talk or just placating? This is definitely change talk, especially because he's saying he's slowing down and he's on his way to not using. Now this may not work. What he's probably trying to do is like taper himself. But, but this is not only change talk, but this is like some insight here, Tara, because he's saying and on my way to not using, which tells me that he knows that he really needs to be not using, which is actually a good sign So I would say that this is change talk. Let's see here. JM Says, I have been doing the craft method with my husband since July. It's been going good, but I hit a breaking point a couple of days ago and wrote a letter to him giving him a glimpse of our marriage and my hurts from my pov. What's that stand for? I don't even know. Did this. Just below everything out of the water. I have been staying out of the bad guy roll, and I feel like my letter was rude or mean. Just explaining where I'm at. This is a hard. This is. Well, it's not a hard question to answer as far as, is it going to be helpful to the person, your spouse, your person with the addiction? It could be, but only if you have built up a lot of credibility. I don't know how long you've been watching jm but I talk about the building credibility. It's almost like building up a credit rating or something to cash in. So if you've been out of the bad guy role consistently, they've seen you differently. And then you break and you lose it, and you say something like that. Then sometimes they're like, wow, I really overstepped like that. I shouldn't have done that. Because they see that their behavior was out of line. If you've been sort of mostly consistently in the bag of roll and then you just write another letter, they're not. They're not going to get any insight from it. So. But I don't want to say, like, you messed up or you did the wrong thing, because, hey, your needs matter too. I'm just saying as far as, like, getting through to them when it's effective and when it's. Lauren says, my birthday is next week, and I would like to celebrate with a glass of wine on my birthday. Is that okay? Lauren, are you in recovery or are you saying, like, maybe, like, someone you care about is in recovery? Like. Like maybe your. Your spouse or something like that. They're in recovery and you're like, can I have a glass of wine on my birthday? And if so, if that's the case, then I would say, how long has the person been in recovery? If it's. You're saying, like, maybe your partner's in recovery, but it's your birthday, can you have a glass of wine? If they've been in recovery for a good while, then I would just ask them and say, hey, is it going to bother you? And they're probably going to say no. If they're newly in recovery. I probably wouldn't even ask them because they're probably going to say no because they don't want to deprive you of that. But it might be bothersome. It will definitely be bothersome if you drink a lot. Like if you come home intoxicated or something like that. It might be okay, though, that if, like, let's say you go, you hang out with your friends, your girls or whatever, you have a few drinks and come back. But, but like, it's tenuous in the beginning. I say. I, I would say to not do it, just to be supportive of them. Even if they say it's not going to bother me. I'm not saying that forever. Just for the first little while. All right, everybody, it looks like we are running out of time. Thank you. Thank you for those of you who joined us. Sorry about all the dog barking. My bad. The lawn people literally come Thursdays at this time, even though we, we beg them not to, but they do. We will see you guys next Thursday at 1 o'. Clock. There are additional resources in the description. If you want to make an appointment with Campbell to talk about your situation, that link is down there. If you want to get in our members program so you can do our five day, no more Bag out challenge, which is happening right now, which is going awesome, by the way. The link for that is down there. And I will see you guys next week. Bye, everybody.