The Ultimate Dilemma of Being In A Relationship with an Addict or Alcoholic

The ultimate dilemma of being in a relationship with somebody who has a drug or alcohol addiction is, of course, should I stay or should I go? And to address that topic, we are going to have for you special guest Kimberly Garrett. She is our relationship specialist that works with us in our office at Hope4Families, and she's the expert on this topic. She usually sees some of the spouses or partners of the people that I see, which are usually the people with substance abuse problems. And so I'm gonna. She's backstage. I'm gonna put her on here for you. And if you're watching live, feel free to jump in there and ask questions. And if you're watching on the replay and you have a question, you can put it in the comments and Kimberly will go back through there and get for you. So here's Kimberly. Hey, Kimberly.

Kim.

Hey. She's really Kim.

I'm calling Kimberly.

You guys might not know this about Kim, but you are so lucky to have her on here because she hates to be on video and pretty much have to, like, threaten, beg, promise, I don't know what to get her on here. So you're super lucky. And Kim really is the expert at dealing with the partners, the spouses, the boyfriends, the girlfriends, the people that are actually in the relationship with, the primary relationship with the person that has the drug or alcohol problem. And so Kim's gonna be here. She's gonna answer some questions. I've got some questions for you, Kim, and our audience probably has a few questions for you. We've got a comment from Candice up here. She says she's so glad this topic's being discussed. Her husband left almost two weeks ago. She's been doubting herself, having severe panic attacks, decisions, trust yourself. I think that really is like one of the major things about the being in a relationship with someone is the trusting yourself. It's the not knowing if your instincts are telling you. Right. Because there's a lot of gaslighting that goes on in these. Oh, yeah. Relationships. Tell us what you typically see dealing with the spouse or the partner about that topic, about the trust, the gaslighting, the, you know, all the tricks that go on. Right.

Usually to kind of platform off of. I think it was Candace's comment on there. That's really common for spouses to really question, did I make the right decision and kind of second guess it and go over and over and over in their head and really suffer from a lot of anxiety. So you figure by the time it gets to that point, you've probably done everything you can possibly think of in order to get your spouse to stop drinking, stop using drugs, or at least be somewhat of a reliable person that you can count on. So as far as, like, the gaslighting goes, I mean, all of that, it's just part of it as far as, can I trust him? And then that also goes back into, I can't trust myself anymore. And I've made this huge decision and I don't trust myself.

And there may be some people watching that don't know the term gaslighting.

I actually term only about a year.

Ago, but I love it because it, like, puts a definition on something. It's like, you know what's happening, but this is the word. It's like when the person, the other person makes you feel like you're crazy and that, like, you can't even trust yourself. And they tell you, like, what you're seeing is not actually what's happening. And it really makes you feel crazy inside. And when you're in a relationship with someone, drug, alcohol problem, they do that all the time. Like, you find the drugs and like, that's all that's been there. And you're like, I know, I looked and that wasn't there. You know, it's stuff like that.

Or it can even go to the point of, I did. I didn't have any drugs. I don't know what you're talking about. I have no idea what you're talking about. I did, I. There weren't any drugs there. So this goes right back into, am I crazy? Am I making this up? Like, did I dream that I haven't had much sleep lately? So then the gaslighting really goes on where you start to second guess all of your decisions, right?

And then they're like, you're just paranoid. You're so controlled, you know, and they throw it back on you and you just. You don't know what to believe anymore. And you really do need that, like, guiding force of, you know, can I trust myself?

Who can I trust?

What's the truth here?

Yep.

Yep. What's some of the biggest frustrations that you hear? Like the spouses and partners, boyfriends, girlfriends. What's some of the biggest frustrations that you hear from. From that side of the street?

I think from like, the biggest, core frustration is that the spouse or the partner really loves their person and they really, truly love them. They admire them, they miss them, they respect them, they want to create. They want to live the life that they started to create. And so then the gaslighting starts to come in, the manipulation starts to come in. And then it really just makes them not want to make the decisions that they know that they have to make. And that's a really big core issue. Some of the other issues that come after that, though, are money. Money's intertwined. Kids are intertwined, Families are intertwined. Judgment from everybody. I don't know why you haven't left him yet. I don't know why you're doing this. So just a ton of judg. And they feel so alone and judged for who they love.

You hit the nail on the head with that. It's so true. And I think that's the key, that a lot of the outside people don't realize that this person's probably not all bad. Like, when I talk to spouses sometimes on those coaching calls, they're like. But they're like a great person, you know? And they tell me that, and I'm like, I believe them because I usually see that person. That's the one I see in my office. And they're fabulous. Like, I like them. They're charming.

I lost you. Amber.

We're back. I think. Gotta get Kim back in here. We lost her for just one second. Here she comes. She comes back. Hey.

Say it. Sorry, I don't know.

Our Internet got lost. We're back. We missed some comments, though. Here's a comment from Jen. It says, my husband, he stopped taking co. It says cocoa, but I think it's probably cocaine. But he lies too much. I don't know the truth. We have two daughters. Let me show that to you so you can see it. And the biggest problem at the moment are his debts. I'm under so much pressure. That really speaks to that financial thing that you were talking about. Kim is stressors, like the kids and the finances. Can you talk a little bit about that?

I'll talk kind of like what to do with that. Because I think anyone that's in this situation understands it so much that I don't need to waste time explaining it. So when you're in those situations, I think it's important to kind of draw a line as far as then and now and create a plan as far as what do we do going forward. And the only way to really get on the same page with that is to have full disclosure from the two of you, which is a really hard conversation to have. But you figure whenever you're dealing with any kind of a addiction, mistrust is at the base. And so if you want to move forward with this being able to say, this is how much I owe, this is what we need to do and this is our plan to get out of debt together. And that takes a lot of work to be able to move forward in that direction. But ultimately that's, that's how you want to handle it.

You got to put all the cards on the table is what you're saying. Like you got to get it out there no matter how difficult or painful it is, or get the secrets out, put on the table and get a plan to move forward.

And from the spouse's standpoint, that's really hard though, the non using spouse, because you fear you've been doing so much and then to have your spouse come to you and say, oh by the way, here's another 20,000 that you don't know about, it's really hard not to lose it. But if you lose it, they're not going to be honest with you. So that's, it's difficult.

It's a balancing act. Yeah, here's another one. We've got another question. It says, what happens when you get to the point that you believe nothing that they say?

Yeah, that's pretty common for anybody that's in this type of situation. I think the, the best way to deal with that is to kind of categorize in your own head. Are they using, are they not using? And if they're not using, then be able to come to them and just say, I'm really struggling with trusting you. Like I'm really struggling with what you're saying. I want to believe this is a story I'm telling myself and this is what you can do to help me learn to believe you. If they are using, then I would just not even have the conversation and go with your instincts because you probably know. So it's like if they're using, they're probably lying.

If they're using and you know it, just trust your gut instincts and there's not having a rational conversation about it's probably not gonna happen. But if they're not using but it's about something else that you're not believing, then you can say that, okay, I call that like a process comment. Say struggling with that over here, you.

Know, I want to believe you.

What's one of the mistakes that you see the spouse or the partner make? That's a really common one that they just fall in that pitfall or that pit hole all the time.

They get mad a lot and so they're angry a lot. They don't have fun Anymore. And so the mistake I would say is they, they're not processing their emotions behind the scenes so they can't really enter the relationship. And like they have, they have their idea of what they want in the relationship, relationship to be in their head, but their emotions won't let them get there.

Right. That's always here from the person on my side, which is the guilty person usually is that their, their spouse or partner is so reactive and emotional that they're like they're scared of them or intimidated. So that makes me lie and hide more.

Which then feeds to the non using spouse to be able to say, I know I can't trust you. And that's why I'm withholding a need and serious all the time. Because someone, you know, we need a, we need an adult in relationship. So it just feeds into one another.

Right. It just is just a domino effect. What's something that spouses or partners can do that's helpful or will help move the things in the right direction.

Going towards themselves? I mean that's a term that Campbell.

Uses all the time.

But that's when you think about like codependency and you look at it under the umbrella of it being an addiction itself. It's, it's an addiction and the result is loss of self because there's obsession, obsession over my partner, obsession over this relationship. And so then there's a form of denial where I'm not doing that and then these just obsessive thoughts. So the best way to the opposite of that is to go towards yourself, develop relationships that can give you what you need, what makes you happy, what makes you sane.

Right. I think you bring up a good point because you said the term or you, you used codependency, you said it's an addiction itself. Talk a little bit more about that. It's that obsession you mentioned.

Yeah. When you look at like drug addiction, it's on a continuum and it's, you know, it's based on obsessive thinking and use in spite of bad things. And so when you think about someone that's in a codependent relationship, they obsess over their partner. And so with drug addiction, the reward is the high or the drug. In relationship addiction, the reward is you're still with me, you're giving me attention, you're answering my text messages, we're still living together. So the reward is that person, even though, even though it comes as a consequence of bad things, just like getting high. So I might spend all my money getting high. And in this Case, I might lose all of my friends because I think I. They don't understand why I'm still with you. I might lose my family for the same reasons. I might even lose my relationship with my kids. But ultimately, my addiction is this relationship. So I keep going towards it, which is a loss itself.

Just like addiction, even though it's not working. And I know that. Right.

And it doesn't bring you joy.

It's really the thing that makes it kind of addicted is the fact that it's not working. I would say it's, you know, addiction is about desire. It's about wanting and not having. It's about the fact that you can get really close, but you can't get it. And that's really what drives it. It's like, it's like you. You almost got it, but you didn't quite. And that's what keeps you in that desire loop. That's what makes it so addictive.

So you figure when you're in a relationship with someone that is addicted, you have these highs and lows of the relationship. And so then people start to get addicted to the highs and lows. Lows, which is a lot of time where people, you know, they'll have lots of relationships with other people that have addictions. Rather it's drugs, alcohol, pornography, but they themselves are addicted to the highs and lows of the relationship.

Like the drama, the drama triangle you talk about that video about. That's really good. Yeah. It's just you get sucked into it. And it's just, I usually tell people when they're in their addiction, I'm like, you don't know how crazy and unhealthy and terrible you feel until you get outside of it. Right. You don't even know how twisted it is. So you get out and you look back, you're like, oh, my gosh, like, how did I live? Like that. Yeah.

Yeah. So a lot of couples, like, once they break this cycle, and a lot of couples can break it together, but once they break it, they'll definitely say, I can't believe we did that. I can't believe what happened. Like, that was crazy talk. And, you know, so you can come out on the other side and just. You have to go towards yourself as far as the non using partner or the codependent partner.

Right. You have to let go of the addiction and start making logical decisions and not emotional reactive decisions.

Right.

We got a couple of questions here. One question I think is about. The question here, I think is how long the meth fog lasts I find that with meth it takes longer for their brain to get better. I'm not sure exactly why. I mean, I kind of have some like brain science reasons why I won't go into all that. But, but like the depression, the difficulty concentrating and some of that stuff really lasts a long time. And that's what we call like post acute withdrawal. But it sounds like this person is saying something about like delusional and confrontational. And that makes me think it's more, it's not really like a, a withdrawal or a brain fog issue, but more of that. The psychology behind addiction where the person refuses to see the reality. I'm guessing that's what this person is saying, and I'm not sure. But you can clarify that for me and I might answer better. Here's our next one. Michelle says that her husband's an alcoholic. He's lost four jobs last year, wrecked three cars. And when I confront him about his drinking, he says he isn't drinking. Oh my gosh, Michelle. So cloudy balls all over. You're just making that up, Michelle. It's not even. I'm getting obsessed and, and so is my 11 year old daughter. What can we do? Oh my gosh, Michelle. That is like textbook classic right there. What advice do you have for Michelle?

I would say that's a perfect example of the gaslighting where you feel like you're going crazy. So I would say the first thing to do is just stop. Stop looking, you know, you know, and stop looking for evidence of what you already know. And as you do that, as you become more calm in what you see, even though you don't want to see it, your daughter will too. And then, and then it takes that. First you figure when we can't make a decision, we generally can't get over the first question, which, is he drinking? Is he drinking? He's drinking. What do I do now?

Right, right. I always say if you're good, if you're their partner, your spouse, you know them like the back of your hand. Like, you know, when they breathe different, you know, when you call them, they answer the phone, you know immediately if they've been using them. Yep. And I'm telling you, I trust you. If you tell it to me, I'm gonna believe you because I know that you know. So trust yourself. Don't ask them. You don't have to ask them because you know and then there's gonna lie to you and they're just gonna be upset.

Yep.

I'm telling you, gotta trust that instinct here's a question. How do you keep going when your addictive partner causes so much pain and loss and they can't meet your need? I think this kind of goes to the when do I say, when do I go?

Question, Kim.

What do you think about that?

That's a. That's a really hard question. When do I stay and when do I go? And generally what happens at this time is the more you lose yourself, the more addicted to the relationship you become. And so a lot of times what people have to do before they're ready to leave a relationship is they have to build themselves back up. So they have to build their social network back up. They have to get family support, friend support. They have to be more supported in who they are as an individual before they can leave the relationship or even think about relationship.

Yep. And you probably. I mean, you have some logistical things to figure out, too, when this is your partner. You know, like, we're gonna live. Where are they gonna live? You know, taking care of kids, finances. There's a lot of pieces to that.

So, yeah, one of the things I tell people when they're in a situation similar to that is I just say, you know, take the decision of leaving off the table right now and just give yourself some time. Like, what do you need to do to like yourself more? And do that for now, and let's concentrate on that, and then you can make the decision to leave another time.

I usually say, you'll know it when you get there. Like, people ask me, you know, should I kick them out? Should I kick my kid out? I'm like, dude, I'm not going to tell you that, because I'm not going to tell you to kick someone out. And then something bad happens when you're mad at me. So I'll say, but you'll know when you're there, you won't be able to stand it. One more second. Yep. Yeah. Let's see here. A couple other questions. Here's a question from Astrid. You always talk about alcohol or substance abuse. My partner tries but cannot leave smoking. Our relationship struggles. Can you put nicotine abuse in the same category? You want to take that, Kim, or you want me to take that?

I can take it From a relationship standpoint. From a relationship standpoint, you can put it in the same category. Because from a partner standpoint, if you're saying, I want you to stop doing this, and your partner says, I'm going to stop doing this, and then you get stuck in this addictive talk, you. You're not doing it I'm going to. You're not. And then trust is eroded. Self respect can be tied to that as well. Finances, if health insurance is involved. So all that from a relationship standpoint, I think would be very similar if they're lying to you about it and if it becomes like the obsession of what's not working in the relationship.

Right. From an addiction standpoint, as far as how we deal with that astronaut in our offices, and we don't. When people are. Especially if people have other substance abuse issues, we leave the nicotine addiction alone. It's not because we don't think it's addictive. It's not because we think it's good. It's not because we condone it. But if you've got multiple addictions going on, we leave that sitting right there because a person in early stages of getting cleaned. So we only have so much willpower, and we have to really, like, make strategic decisions about where to use the willpower. We usually get it. That one last. But it's definitely an addiction for sure. And I think what Kim said is super valid about the lying and the trust issues. That's where it becomes complicated. Yeah. Here's another question we have, Erica. What are the best ways to quit being codependent? I try to detach. I've started noticing I'm constantly thinking about my girlfriend.

Okay. And that right there, that's the hallmark of codependency, is the obsession. So the best way to do it is to acknowledge that attaching yourself to this relationship is meeting a need inside of you. And so try to get that need met in another way. And I know that that's a really superficial answer, but it is the answer. It's just trying to figure out what those other things are.

No, that's a perfect answer, I think, Kim, because that's what I tell the person. I say the actor, the alcoholic. When you're having a craving, it means you need something, probably not drugs or alcohol. It's kind of like if you're really hungry and you're like, I need to eat some Cheetos, you know, that's really not going to meet the need. Right. It's like, I mean, Cheetos. It makes me feel kind of full, but it's not giving me. It's kind of like that. It's like, what's inside of me. What does that need is not being met? I think that actually is a really solid, valid answer.

Most of the time with codependency, too. The need is around purpose, and it's around self value.

Right. And I think that the other person, they make you feel like you can't trust yourself. They tell you these negative things about yourself. And so they sort of erode your sense of self to the point that that's what makes you dependent on them. Right. Just the exact same process as the addiction. The addiction erodes the person self sense of self, makes them hate themselves, makes them feel shameful and guilty, and that's what makes them dependent on substance. And so everybody's caught in the trap. Yeah.

And the shame is a good point too, on that. Because then you figure if you're in a relationship and you're ashamed that you're still in that relationship, you don't tell anybody what's really going on. So then you're lonely and more dependent on your person.

Exactly. And you get judgment from other people. You get judgment from other people about why you haven't left this person. And you get judgment from other people who don't. Who can't really see the problem. This is the worst. Right. It's like no one else sees it but you, because you're the one at home. Which makes you feel even more like you're crazy. And you get judgment, like, why you're being so mean. Because the addictive person goes around, tells everyone how mean terrible you are. You got all these other people judging you. Like, God, you're so mean. Like, why would you treat them that way? Come from every direction. Yep. Yeah. Here's a question that you don't have to answer this time because I think it's its own topic, but maybe. Kim, think about. I've ran into this a couple times on some coaching calls recently. It's like when there's kids involved, and if this is your spouse or whatever, and there's kids involved, those kids can have all different kinds of feelings. Some of them feel like you're being mean to mom or dad. Other kids get really upset that you won't leave them.

Yeah.

Why don't you leave them? They're just a jerk or whatever. So I feel like that might be a super good topic for another time. Yeah, I agree. I'll have you right here in public. Can I get you to agree to maybe talk about some. Yeah, we can talk about that. Okay.

Because that, I mean, that's a huge one for people that share children with someone that struggles with addiction. I mean, that's right there.

Number one, the kids add this whole other layer that I really think it's as. It's a whole separate topic. There's so many pieces to that. So we'll get Kim back on here to talk to us about that sometime in the future. If you would like to talk to Kim. She does do phone and zoom coaching sessions for people just trying to figure out these kind of questions, you know, should I say or should I go? Should I trust myself? What do I do? And Kim really is the one in our office who is the expert at that. So I'll put a link in the description so you know how to reach out to her. And we'll connect you next Thursday. All right, everybody.

All right. Bye. Thanks, Amber.

Bye.