Understanding the Psychological Patterns of Alcoholism and Addiction

How in the world can they not see that they're addicted? How do they not realize that they're an alcoholic? I mean, how can they possibly be in denial? Don't they see that this is destroying their life and everyone around them? Well, if you've ever asked yourself those questions or wondered that, maybe you're wondering it right now, you're in luck because today we're going to take a deep dive into the psychology of addicted alcoholic physical thinking. We're going to break it down for you into some stages and phases so you can sort of identify where either you're at or someone you care about, where they're at in their thinking, what's going on, what kind of psychological defense mechanism is at play. And we'll even go a little bit into how do we sort of break through these different addicted thinking defense mechanisms. For those of you who are new here, welcome to Put the Shovel Down. I'm Amber Hollingsworth and this YouTube channel is all about helping you understand the science and psychology of addiction. Because if you're gonna beat your enemy, you need to know it very well. In fact, the only way to beat addiction is to outsmart it. And once you understand how it works on the psychological level, you really truly can get and stay five steps ahead of it. Today is a big part of that convers understanding these stages and phases of defense mechanism, how it is that people continue in what seems to everyone else such an obviously self destructive path. This is how it happens. You're not going to find these in a book somewhere, you're not going to find these anywhere else, but here. It comes from my experience, 20 plus years of working with people who have addictions in an inpatient setting, outpatient setting, intensive outpatient, sober living, all the different kinds settings. It's a lot of years of working with people and families who have addiction. And it's helpful to understand what are those psychological mechanisms that actually sort of protect this addiction, that keep it in play. If you're going to break through it, you got to understand what's happening there. Because most family members, loved ones, even some counselors, and even some, you know, like other recovery supports, like sponsors, they try to get through these denial mechanisms, but they try to do it through, through busting through it, almost like breaking the shield down. And that doesn't work. In fact, the harder you push, the more you try to bust through these defense mechanisms, the stronger and more reinforced they are. What happens is the person starts to cling to these defense mechanisms for dear life. And if you can choose other strategies, all of which we talk about on this channel. They'll actually let go of these defense mechanisms on their own. The key is not pushing. So let's take a look at what they are. We're going to kind of start from the beginning. We're going to look at, you know, what happens when someone first starts to experience the unmanageability all the way through until they're sort of fully stuck in addiction, like chemically dependent. Unmanageability is out of control. They're all the way in. Now, if you're not familiar with that term, it's unmanageability. It's an old recovery term and it basically just refers to the chaos, the drama, the problems, the difficulties that always ensue when someone has an addiction. Now of course, everyone in life encounters problems and roadblocks and difficulties and some drama every now and then. But when you have an addiction, it definitely. Your unmanageability, your problems and difficulties seem to be more than other people. It's definitely disproportionate and that's how you can tell that there's actually addiction going on. It's just constant difficulty. Things that don't work out, right. Unmanageability, the very first stage. Now these are not just things that happen exactly. If someone just maybe like drinks alcohol, I'm talking about once unmanageability starts to creep into your life and you notice that it's causing some problems, these are the ways that you sort of psychologically build that barrier and, and allow yourself to ignore and not see all this unmanageability that's over there. This seems so clear and obvious to everyone else. I'm going to call this first stage permission giving. So these are all the different ways in which we make it okay, maybe even make it expected or maybe even kind of convince ourselves that we're entitled to continue down this addictive behavior road. Whether that's alcohol, drugs, money, whatever it is. All, all the addictions, all the, all the things we, we do that by telling ourselves things like everyone does it. Classic, right? We do that by telling ourselves things like I deserve it. Another sort of variation of that one is, I call it grown ass man. I'm a grown ass man. I'm a grown ass woman. I work hard, I pay my bills, I pay my taxes, whatever it is, you know, like, let me do what I want to do. I'm a grown up, whatever. That's sort of an entitlement idea, right? Like I can do what I want and that, that kind of Thinking, which is very common, is an entitlement type of thinking. There's nothing wrong with it. That's another way that we sort of give ourselves permission. We're basically normalizing it. We're making it okay. This is this first strategy of ignoring this unmanageability that seems to be creeping in, trying to get our attention. You know, who doesn'. You know, have a few drinks with their buddies after work or something like that. It's. It's our normalizing process. We're trying to make ourselves believe that what we're doing and the way we're doing it and the frequency at which we're doing it, all those things, is completely normal. The next phase, once we've, you know, and then the normalizing it phase can last for years, right? But once that unmanageability, you know, as it gets in there, it doesn't just go away. It just creeps up a little bit more. A little bit more, A little bit more. And as that's happening, you'll start to kind of realize, like, okay, this is causing some problems. But seriously, all the rest of you people, y' all are all overreacting. It's not that bad. I'm gonna call this the minimizing it phase. So in this phase of it, the person may acknowledge that, okay, you know, occasionally I drink too much, but who doesn't, right? Or you may. Something may be bad happened during some incident, but they somehow describe it or consider it some kind of fluke incident. Like, you know, the whole I got overserved, or it was, you know, New Year's Eve and everyone goes crazy on New Year's Eve. He doesn't have a crazy New Year's Eve story, right? It's this minimizing it, saying, okay, yeah, that happened. But it's not really that big a deal because. And this can come out in sort of like a number of ways, but it's any. Any kind of thing that. That minimizes it. That takes something bad that happened. This is usually focused around something specifically bad that happened. A giant fight, a dui, a missed important special family event, a firing from a job, you know, flunking classes. This. This is usually the way that the person kind of pushes those bigger red flag signs out and ignores them. This is how denial works. This is what we're talking about. All these different psychological mechanisms that come to play that actually makes it difficult for people to see that there's a problem. And even though I've been dealing with this stuff for a long time, it is still shocking. When it seems so obvious. And then the person says, well, I don't really know if I'm like a real alcoholic or, you know, they may say, well, yeah, I got a little too much, but I think eventually I'll be able to drink manageably. You know, I just need to get under control. I just need to do a 30 day reset. I just need to deal with my anxiety differently. You know, things like that. It's, it's a way of not seeing the problem. And it is shocking to me even after all these years, how strong and truly, truly people can be in denial and really, really, really not see it. You would think I'd get used to it, but I don't. It's like really, you don't see that? Really, you know, it. Almost every week I run into a situation like that. This next phase is kind of as the unmanageability is continuing to creep in and get a little bigger and a little bigger, then the, the bigger justifications start, right? So at first it was normalizing it, then it was minimiz. Now we're just going to sort of justify it. And at this phase it's kind of like the person's maybe acknowledging like, okay, I'm like a heavy drinker or problematic drinker or I smoke too much or whatever it is, you know, so they're acknowledging that whatever the thing is is probably more than it should be, but there's a justification for it. So it's like, yeah, it's a problem, but fill in the blank, right? But it's the only thing that helps me with my anxiety. But it's, I'm really just self medicating. But you know what? Only reason I do this, because you're always telling me not to. And when you tell me not to, then I pretty much have to because you're telling me not to. So that's a way of making it your fault, right? It's a way of justifying what they can now at this point see is probably problematic, right? So it's going from it's not a problem, y' all crazy to okay, like every, you know, that one bad thing happened to, okay, it's a problem. But I can't help it because, right, if your addicted loved one is in any of these three stages, these are, these are sort of like classic denial kind of things happening here, then you're in the right place because the techniques we teach on this channel that are specifically designed to get through to people that are in these stages. And remember I said no busting through the wall. That doesn't work, because when you do that, they just literally go in on all those defense mechanisms. Like, you can, like, imagine, like, Star Trek in your head or something. They're, like, pushing buttons, and it's like, put the force fields up and they're like, arming the troops or whatever they're doing. The more you try to push. So you got to go in the side door, which is the things that we talk about. It's the things we talk about in our invisible intervention program. All of those motivational techniques that kind of slowly peel the layers back and allow someone to see, hey, this is kind of problem, and I probably need to deal with it. Now, if the problem continues, they are going to move on to this next phase. And this is. In this phase, I think people start to pretty much realize that maybe they're an addict or an alcoholic, but they deflect it. They're probably not admitting it to you at this point, but they're probably in their own head, sort of knowing it, but they're going to deflect it. And a big common way that people deflect it, and when I say deflect it, I mean, like, avoid the conversation, is that they'll act angry at you if you bring it up. It's like the. The porcupine effect or the puffer fish. They blow up, they get spiky, they get nasty, they get ugly. And they start to train you that if you bring it up, if you confront me, if you say something's an issue, I'm gonna act so ugly and so nasty that you're gonna regret bringing that up. And every time you do that, I'm gonna act that way and I'm gonna tell you it's your fault, and I'm gonna blame all these other things, even though maybe secretly inside I'm. I'm kind of knowing that it's an issue, but I'm training the people around me that I'm not gonna talk about it. I don't want to talk about it. I don't need to talk about it, and don't be bringing it up. And there's reasons for that. The person feels shameful, they feel guilty. They're probably still holding on to some bit of hope that they can turn it around on their own, that they can cut it back or something like that. But you're gonna know if you're dealing with someone in this stage because you feel nervous about the topic coming up because you know it's going to turn into a giant fight. A giant argument. It's going to get ugly. This next phase, I feel like, is honestly the hardest thing to deal with. Most people feel like denial is hard to deal with, but I don't personally feel like denial is hard to deal with because denial takes care of itself. The evidence will eventually get big enough that you cannot ignore it. Like it always deals with itself. This, this last phase is sort of where the person just. It's gotten so bad, the unmanageability so big. This is usually kind of where people get to after the spouse finally leaves or they lose the job. I mean, it's just so evident that there's not really any arguing about anymore. They actually even sort of like give up on arguing with you about it. And then this last defense mechanism is just to own it. This one, I think is the most difficult defense mechanism to break through. It's. And then they say things, well, it's just who I am. You knew it when you married me. Or you know, why can't you just accept me for me? You hear all these kind of things. And this is when someone, I think really does realize that they do have a true alcoholism or addiction, but they don't want to hold themselves responsible for fixing it. So they're acknowledging it, but they're releasing themselves from any responsibility to doing anything about it by just accepting it. Sometimes they'll even like glorify it in some ways. Like they'll be like proud of it, you know, like, like Snoop Doggs proud of smoking or whatever. You know, they'll just sort of own it and wear it as an identity. And then they'll push you away as a person and tell you you're being mean or cruel or unfair because you won't just accept it. I hear that all the time. Why can't you just accept me for me? And it puts the person on the receiving end of hearing this statement. You almost start to wonder and, and sort of second guess yourself and wonder like, well, am I just being critical? Why can't I just accept it? The, the reason why you can't just accept it as someone who's in a close relationship with an addicted loved one is because it's a bad relationship dynamic. If you're in a relationship with someone, has an addiction, then It's a mostly 90% one way relationship. It's you sort of giving to them. And 10% they are able to sort of give back not because they don't care, not because they don't love you, but because this addiction preoccupation takes up the primary emotional, psychological, financial resources. So it's like the game that's going on in their head all the time is chasing this addiction down, Getting it, having it, using it, hiding it, recovering from it, getting money for it, you know, keeping the supply coming. And that takes up so much energy. There's just not much left for anything or anybody else. So it's kind of like saying, why can't you just accept it? If you're giving 90 and I'm giving 10, that's what they're saying to you. Those of you watching this channel for a long time, you know, then I want you to say that to them, because that's not helpful. It may be fair, it may be true, but it's not helpful. Okay? So I'm telling you these things, but I'm not telling it to you because I want you to use this information to call someone out. This is one of those videos that if you have someone in your life who's dealing with one of these kinds of denials, don't, like, send this video to them as a way of trying to break through the denial again. You're going to make it worse. Don't do that. But I do want you to understand what's happening and how they're thinking and why. If you're listening and you can identify, you've heard some of these statements, you've said some of these statements, put a little hand emoji in the comments or the chat. So I know that you're following me. If I were talking to you live, I'd be able to see your head nodding, but I can't see your head nodding. So seeing those little hand emojis helps me get that you're with me, that you're following me. Those of you that are watching live, I am going to take some of your questions, comments, concerns, give you some feed. So if you have those questions, go ahead and start putting them in the chat. If you're watching the playback, hey, we're glad you're here, too. Go ahead and put your questions, comments in the chat. I mean, in the comment section. I always read them and I try to respond whenever possible. All right, as you guys are putting those questions in there, if you have a question and you're watching live, it's helpful for me if you put, like, question marks in front of it or if you write the word question in front of it, because then I'll know, hey, this is a question, not just a comment or conversation back and forth between you and someone else while you Guys are getting those questions up there. I do want to make an announcement to the people that are in our membership program. I know not all of you are in a membership program, but a lot of you are. Coming up in 2024, we're going to add something new into the membership called challenges. And all day, I've been working on our first challenge. I'm kind of excited about it. It's called the no More Mr. Five Day Challenge. So in January, I'm going to take you through this challenge if you're in our membership, and we're gonna. I'm gonna tell you what to do every day. So simple. So simple. You're gonna be like, really, Amber? That's all. And I'm gonna tell you. It's like a little conversational sort of, like, strategy kind of technique. I want you to use one of them each day, and by the end of the five days, I think you're going to have made very significant progress to getting yourself out of the bag. I roll. Which, if you don't already know, this is the first steps that you got to do to get someone out of denial. These are things that actually are. How do you break through this? These defense mechanisms that are happening right here. Thank you for the super chat. Fab T. Thank you so much for the super chat. Do you have a question or something I can answer for you? I appreciate that and all your support. Thank you. All right, let's get to some of our questions. I see some hands coming up. I appreciate the support. To me, that's the virtual head nod, so I know you're tracking me. Hello, kp. Hello, Cassandra. And is it Sumpy? I think that's a new name that I haven't seen on here before. Hey, Karen. Hey. Online Lifestyle Freedom artist. And Jacqueline and Emily and Noel. Hello, hello, hello. Yeah, hello, Jennifer and Cindy. All right, we got a question here from Debbie. So Debbie said. Debbie says, my person is in the prickly angry phase. What is the best response to your picking on me? So what do they say when. When you. When they say you're picking on them? Well, first thing I'd ask is, are you picking on them? I doubt it, Debbie, because I've seen your name around for a while, and I know you know better. So I know you're not picking on them. And what I want you to do is make a. What I call, process, comment. Debbie. So instead of saying, I'm not picking on you, then I would say something about what's actually happening in the conversation between you, not the content of what they're saying to you, but the process. So what you might want to say is I feel like anytime I bring up my concerns, you turn it back on me and make me the bad guy. It feels like it's not fair. I don't know how to talk to you or bring up my concerns. So you're sort of saying you're bringing to light, bringing to the surface what they're doing, which is basically trying to put it off on you. They're trying to use that deflection, angry technique, starting argument kind of thing. So you just want to call out what's happening. You can say, I feel like you're trying to start an argument. I feel like you're making me the bad guy, you know, and so you want to talk about what's happening here, call out, not in a mean way, not in a fight starting way, but just sort of surface and acknowledge the, the dynamic that's going on. And that sort of basically is saying, yeah, I see what you're doing here in a, in a less confrontational kind of way. Far Forest sounds says question, are there things you can say to help get someone out of a victim mindset or ways to respond to someone when they are stuck in blame shifting victim mode? My husband is past the denial stage, looks like there's more there, and admits he can't drink anymore, but still blames a lot of things on other people and being a victim. Well, I have a couple things about that. The most important thing is if they're already acknowledged that they have to stop whatever it is, then I would just disregard the other stuff because getting into it with them about whether or not they're a victim and who was the perpetrator and you know, are they just feeling sorry for themselves is beside the point. If they're acknowledging that they got to stop, just that's what you need. And so just pick up on that piece and come in alignment with them, be their team and say, all right, great, like how can I help? You know, let's get them to focus on getting them to agree to take some kind of action step versus arguing with them about the victim mode. Because that, that's not going to do you any good to do that. And if you can get them sober, the longer they're sober, usually the more clear they get and the more that that kind of takes care of itself. You really are not going to talk someone out of being a victim. And the more you try to do that, the more they see themselves as a victim of you. And being mean to them or not understanding them or picking on them. So you kind of have to see your way around that. You can either avoid the conversation, deflect it, agree. If there's any little teeny bit of truth in there where you can agree, but you want to sort of bypass it because it's kind of like a trap that's set for you. And if you, if you step on that trap, it's just going to get you sucked back into that bad guy row, which isn't very helpful. Let's see here. Barbara says what to do when my daughter is disrespectful to me, when she calls me from the rehab center she's in. You know what? When I used to work. Barbara, when I used to work in an inpatient facility, I worked for many years on the adolescent unit, and then I worked for many more years on the adult unit. And I know when we were on the adolescent unit, they would literally, the phone calls they would make would have to be like, right in front of the nurse's station. So there would usually be some kind of staff standing there. If we heard of somebody being nasty, we just intervene. If it was an adolescent, we'd say, you know what? We'd take the phone. You know what? I think they're not in a good way to talk. They'll call you tomorrow. We would sort of intervene for you. But if you're dealing with an adult and have the impression that you are, then I would just say, hey, seems like you're in a bad mood. I don't. Let's not talk right now, and I'll get off the phone with them. And you're sort of. You're not starting an argument and you're not being mean, but you do want to train them that if they want to talk to you, they need to talk to you in a certain way. And that may come to the point where you don't take their phone calls. Because if you're taking their phone calls because you feel bad, because, you know they only get maybe two calls or they only get five minutes, and you feel like you have to do it, engaging in that conversation, and they're talking to you like you're a dog. You're. You're literally, like validating bad behavior. This isn't even about drugs and alcohol. This is about validating bad behavior and bad boundaries. And you don't want to. You don't want to deal with that. So just don't answer the phone. Or if you do and they get like that Then just say, you know what? Seems like it's a rough day. Let's try again tomorrow. Just get off the phone. Don't say, you can't talk to me like that, because that doesn't work. They can. But you can decide not to listen and not to engage in the conversation. Now, I will say this is that most people in rehab, they're in detox especially, they're going to be a little bit irritable. So I'm not talking about if they're just a little bit grumpy. I'm talking about if they're being nasty to you, which I have seen many, many times, Barbara, and I think that's what you're saying. Don't deal with that. Absolutely not. Rose says if we do see change talk, can we ask if they would watch this video on YouTube? This is not the video that I would suggest, Rose. This one is entirely too confrontive. I always say, you know, find some videos that you think that they'll agree with or mostly agree with, because I have lots of them out there. Find something that's going to be a little easier for them to swallow. And then if they agree with that and they like that, then maybe they'll watch another video or two of mine, and then maybe the algorithm will start putting more things in front of them. What you're trying to do, actually, is you're trying to build credibility with your loved one through the videos. So it's kind of like me trying to build credibility with them. You don't want to. I would tell you not to start the conversation with something that they absolutely cannot hear. So don't start my conversation with them that way. Take something that they can hear, start with that, and let them warm up into it. And then once, once they have listened to some videos and if they think, oh, she kind of knows something, and they run across this video, that's more effective. Let's see here. Is there hope for us? Have you ever seen a couple make it after alcoholism has led to violence? When he is sober, he is completely different person. Yes, I have seen many couples make it out of that. So I definitely want you to feel hopeful. I am not, however, tell you to tolerate violence just because someone's an alcoholic, hoping that they come out of it. So if violence is still happening, you need to protect yourself. Safety comes before anything and everything I ever tell you. I tell you all these techniques, but all of that goes to the wayside. When it comes to safety, safety is always first, and then do what's therapeutic. So the video I have coming out next week, I think on Tuesday, the second is specifically about people who get angry when they're drinking. People get angry when they're drunk. So if. Keep your eye out for that video, it's coming. I think it may help you when it comes to this. But yes, it can get better. But if it's still happening, you need to physically separate. You can be kind if you want to. You don't have to say, I'm never talking to you again. But you need to get some distance because if that's what happens when someone drinks, that's what's going to happen when someone drinks. No matter how much they apologize for it, no matter how bad they feel about it, if that's what happens when someone drinks and they're continuing to drink, it will happen again. That's what I talk about in next week's video. Jennifer says at the ownership stage, back to work and change drinking habits. But stuck at this point and sometimes going backwards. Tips for getting him back on track. I think what you're saying, Jennifer, is like sometimes when people are newly sober, they have little slip ups. Sometimes they're having those little slip ups because secretly they think it'll, you know, I talk about this a lot. It's like it'll be different this time. Maybe I can manage it differently. If that is what's going on, then the key is, is to let the slip get bad enough again so that they can realize like, oh yeah, it always ends badly. But other times when people slip in early recovery, they slip, they catch it quick and they realize like they're not trying to tell themselves. Like, they're not trying to like take back their powerlessness, as they would say in 12 step. They're not trying to say they're not an addict or an alcoholic or something, but they're having a slip. So it depends on if. Are they sliding back in their denial? Are they sliding back into minimizing it, justifying it, permission giving? If they are, then what you do is you go back to those stages that I talk about. And I know you know these, Jennifer, because I've seen your name a long time. You go back to those techniques. So you want to meet them where they're at. Gwen says, question, my niece is now on the street together with her husband. Is it normal to give up on them? I think I don't know what's normal. I can say it's natural to eventually run out of empathy and compassion when you've tried and you've prayed and You've begged and you've helped and you've done all the things you can do. Eventually, you're gonna run out of empathy, and you're gonna need to let go of it and distance yourself emotionally from it. And it's not necessarily that you're just giving up and writing them off. I'm sure there's still hope in your heart that they get better, but it's stepping back from taking such an active role in it because it's wearing you out and exhausting you. That is a natural response. And it is something that you do need to come to terms with. It's okay when you get to that point to. To take your hands off of it and. And let it try to figure itself out, because by the time they get on the street, you've done a lot. Like, that's not the first level. So I know that everyone's done a lot before that point. Jamie Larose says, my boyfriend is a heroin addict. He's sweet and giving. He's been to rehab nine times. It doesn't work and won't go again. Please help. That's a really common thing, Jamie, that it doesn't work. Here's the thing about going to rehab. It's not the same as, like, if you have a cold and the doctor gives you an antibiotic and you swallow antibiotic, and it's supposed to fix you. Recovery is an active process. It's not. You go to rehab and then you come out and you're fixed like you've had some kind of inoculation. They teach you how to live clean and sober and what to do. If it's not working, it's because they're not doing the things they have been taught. Now, there's a lot of different ways of getting in recovery. There's a lot of different philosophies and techniques, and it's like religions. And if someone's saying, well, this one doesn't work for me, that's fine, find one that does. But if he's been to nine rehabs and he's saying it doesn't work, it's because he's not working it. Right. He's not doing what they're telling him and teaching him to do because it, it. It does work. If you do. You know, I hate to say it, but you know the old school saying, it works if you work it. Yeah. I mean, doing the basics, staying away from it, putting safety nets in place, working your recovery plan, keeping away from people, places and things, it's probably some very Basic things. Things that's not being done. So, yes, it would work if they would do the things. Thank you for the super sticker, Debbie. You're so sweet. I appreciate that. Karen says, will the challenges be on the Facebook group? No, not for now. I might eventually make the five day no more Mr. Bad Guy challenge available for people to sign up for four that are not in the group. But because it's new, I'm trying it out first so all the members will get access to it. But you have to be in the actual Hope for Families group, the group coaching group, to get that one. Nkb, I see your question marks, but I don't see the question just yet. Married a long time. I won't wear my wedding ring anymore. He begged me to put it on. And the next weekend he drank more than usual. I took it off. I just can't anymore. Am I hurting us by not wearing it? It. I think you're punishing him by not wearing it because it's just sort of a. It's a statement is what it is. It's. You're trying to say something to him by not wearing it. And I don't think that's a very effective technique. You may say that you're setting a boundary, but my guess is, is that you're trying to. You're using as a way to try to get through to him that, like, you're done with this and you don't want to stay in it. And I understand that that's valid feeling. But the wearing of the wedding ring if you're still together is probably not the hill you want to die on. That's not the. That's not the boundary that I would set necessarily, because it's not. That one is just not worth the fight over. I don't think it's a way that he's, you know, you're. You're getting yourself in the bad guy role or he's putting you in the background role. So I just probably wouldn't hold that fight personally. Jessica says, my boyfriend binge drinks and wants to fight with me. Every time he gets me to go to places and do things with him like take him places. I refuse. We fight, I go. We fight in a moving vehicle. Solution. Solution is, is that when he's drinking, you're. You may have to set the boundary of you don't want to be around him when he's drinking because it's going to end that way. When people have a drinking problem, they're very predictable. After you've seen them drunk a few times, you can know exactly what they're going to do. If they get angry, they're going to get angry. If they start crying, they're going to start crying. If they start saying, I love you, man, they're going to say, I love you, man. Like, it's very predictable. It's like every single time, it is like Groundhog Day. So I don't care how much the person promises, it's not going to be like this time, I'm not going to do that. They probably mean it when they're promising, but when they drink, they shut off the part of their brain that has the ability to control those things. So it is going to keep happening. So don't, don't be fooled by that. I know they mean it, but it is going to happen. If they're going to keep drinking, it's going to keep happening. Carolyn says, does it make things worse to tell an addict, we can't have contact any longer until you're willing to get out of denial or get better? Yeah. I mean, it can make things worse for them. But not everything is about them. Does it help them get out of denial? Probably not. What they do with that is they make you the villain. They use as a redirection, as one of those stage fours that we talked about as a deflection. You know, you gave up on me. You don't care about me. You just shut me out. You know, they make you the villain. So does it help to get them out of denial? No. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. You just shouldn't do it because you think that it's going to change them. If you're doing it because you need to do it to protect yourself, because you can't take anyone, that's a good reason to do it. So a lot of it depends on the intention there. But telling someone they need to get out of denial, it doesn't quite. It doesn't quite work because when people are in denial, they don't really realize they're in denial. So you may say something like, until you get sober, instead of arguing with them about whether or not they're alcoholic or addict or not, you can just say sober because that's more clear and to the point. Or until. Does he say until you can get your crap together. But I don't think telling them that is going to get them out of denial. Polly says, hey, Amber, I've been watching your videos for a few months now. It's changed so much at home. But Hubby is still not sober. There is change talk, but he seems to be talk for a while now. I think maybe there's more to that. I, but I don't see it. So what you're saying is you're watching the videos for a while, the relationship's better, you're getting some change talk, but he's still drinking or using or whatever it is that's common. The things I teach you on this channel doesn't make someone get sober. The things I teach you on this channel helps to get people out of denial. Kind of gets you out of the bag of roll and it helps them to see it faster. So all of those things are working. What you're probably, if it's been a few months, then you're probably. He's probably still going to be in the bargaining phases. He or she is still in the bargaining phases. So probably it's like the change talk. But it's like I'm going to cut back or I'm going to do a 30 day stop or maybe they don't drink for a couple of days and then they fall back. And it's a frustrating process, but it's a necessary process and it is an indicator that we are trying to figure it out and that the person is trying to make changes. So if things are on track, don't, don't be shocked. It doesn't just go away all at once. There's a lot of like two steps forward, one step back, two steps forward, one step back. But eventually they get there. So hang in there. If you're seeing changes, it's working and you're doing the right thing. Question. Hey, Amber. My son just turned 18. He's in college, but home for winter break now. He started to smoke THC in college and in a matter of two months became fully addicted to addicted. Is there more? Let's see. Okay, here's some more. He is smoking daily. He's unrecognizable. He says he wants to quit, but he doesn't. How did he fall so low so quickly? What can we do? I suppose that someone could fall into being fully addicted to that in two months, but it's not likely. My guess is that there's a little bit more to the story. Maybe there's not. But if it is falling into it that quickly, then they're probably in still in that stage one permission giving, which is like, you know, I'm young, I'm in college. Everyone does it like totally like making it out not to be that big of a problem. And he may be saying, well, I need to quit. But in his own mind, he's probably still just completely not seeing it as a, as a problem much at all because it's really early on. So it usually takes it being a problem for quite a long time before someone even sees it a little bit. So you may have a ways to go. I'm really sorry, but you are in the right place. If you do the things we teach on this channel, it will expedite it and it will go faster, but you will have to go through all those stages. Emily says, what do you do when they try to bring up things and they say, you're making me angry? If someone's getting angry and you're trying to have a conversation with them, then no matter how much you want to have that conversation or you feel like it needs to be had, when you see that someone is getting angry, you're. You're not going to get anywhere like you have to have. If you're going to have an effective conversation, it has to be when you're somewhat cool, calm and collected. And that's on both sides. And so if I start kind of pressing a client and I can see that they're starting to tense up, they don't usually get angry with me in session like they would with you at home, like, you know, yell or scream or call me names or, you know, but you can see them start to close down. And the. Even though they're not expressing anger, I can see it, then I sort of back up and I may try a different way to come at it, or I may wait until they're calmer. So you could say, Emily, you could say, hey, I see it's a bad time. Not trying to push you into a bad spot. You know, is there a better way to talk about it, or can we talk about it maybe tomorrow just for five minutes? So something like that. But. So it's frustrating and on some level, they may be using that as a manipulation tactic to get you back up. But when you see that someone really is angry, no matter how much you want to, you need to stop talking because nothing good is going to happen from that point. Hey, Cynthia. Hello, Carly. Tom has a question. Question. My husband has been drinking heavily for 10 years. He has admitted to the problem, but says he will work on it later. I have tried everything. He drinks from 6am when is it time to leave? That is very good question, Tom. And I have two videos on this channel that specifically address when is it time to leave? And I think Trying to think of the exact title. I think it's called when to Walk Away. I think the thumbnail shows four reasons to walk away. So check that video out because it goes more in depth into how do you make this decision? I'll give you a quick cheat sheet answer though, Tom, is if you're trying to say I'm going to walk away in hopes that that's going to be a wake up call for them, that's not usually going to work. Again. It just puts you in the vilified role. And they're drinking usually just like goes completely over the top. But that may be what you need to happen. You may need to leave knowing that it's going to go over the top and then maybe they'll see it. But don't think you're just going to leave and then they're going to be like, oh, I'm so sorry. You know I love you, please come back. That's probably not gonna happen. I know it's kind of bad, but it was just truth. All right, See we have a Facebook viewer on here. He says, hey, Amber, My spouse has been trying to recover from her in abuse for 10 years now. We have been together for five years. And he was always relapsing every six weeks or maybe, maybe one day and then would get off of it again on his own. He started to go to therapy a year ago, but still continued to lapse every six weeks or so. In November, he lapsed again. And after me saying I would need to move out to look after myself, he decided to go through the Subutex route. He's on 6 milligrams a day with the drug and alcohol. Is there more? I don't see the rest of it. If there's a question. I'm not sure. I don't see the rest. I think that maybe there's more to that, but I can't find it. If someone is mostly sober and they're having these little lapses where they're sort of going off of it one day but then getting right back on track, that in and of itself is problematic. Not just because they're relapsing, but because the relapses are actually not so bad and they're lasting a short period of time because that eventually gives the person the impression that they're managing it. You know, if it's like, like it's almost. It's in their mind. It's more like a cheat day. Like you might be on a diet, but, you know, every two weeks you have a cheat day in their mind. If the lapses are not severe and they're not lasting long, that's probably what they're thinking and that's probably why they keep happening. Let's see here. I see someone else gave me a super sticker. Thank you. I'm trying to find it so I can put it up here on the screen. Here's one. Thank you. Fab T. Please let me know if you can see my question. Let me see if I can find it. Fabd. Let's see here. This is where I need my moderators. I posted a question. Can you see my question? I'm tracking back here. Oh, I think I found it. Here it is. Is. Do you think that the invisible intervention strategies can work from a distance? I live in Ontario and he lives in Michigan, a 40 minute drive. I think the invisible intervention works best if you live with them, but if you don't live with them but you have like regular communication, like you talk daily or almost daily, then I, I still think you can have a large influence on someone. So I definitely think that it can be effective. But if it's a situation where you go for long periods of time without talking to the person, I'm not. It's not that the techniques don't work, they actually do work, but it may work so slowly that it'll take a long time. You want to have that regular communication so you can build the trust, build the rapport, positively reinforce it just makes the process happen a lot faster. But nonetheless, the techniques I teach you in there are helpful, healthy techniques, good boundaries, good ways of interacting with someone who has a problem of any sort. So you're not going to go wrong with it regardless. It's going to help the relationship. It's going to put you in a more positive light them in a more positive light. But as far as like getting them sober faster, you need to have regular contact with them, I think to make it work fast enough to see that kind of progress. Let's see here. Sorry you guys. I know I need my moderators. I'm having to read the questions. I'm finding them for you though. BC says does being open to the possibility of relapse to the partner benefit the relationship or does it worsen it? I think what you're asking me is like if you have, like if your partner is in early recovery, being open to the relapse is that you're saying, you're not necessarily saying to the person like I'm totally okay if you relapse but if they do relapse, not going into freakout mode is the best plan. Just because they get on the roller coaster doesn't mean you get on the roller coaster. If they get on it and you stay off, they'll get a off of it faster. So in your own heart and mind, realizing that that could happen and being prepared for it is the thing to do. You're not necessarily telling them that it's totally okay if you relapse, but you also don't want to tell them if you use one more time Mr. That's it, I'm out. Don't, don't give the like no wiggle room ultimatum kind of thing because what will happen is you'll back yourself into a corner. Like they'll maybe they're doing good for six months and then they like have a slip up and now you've done told them if they mess up one time you're out. Like don't, don't do that. So you don't have to say you can never do it again. And you don't have to say it's totally fine. You just sort of partner with them and you will leave it to yourself as a game time decision on how to interact with that or you know, if you can stay or if it's still healthy. So hopefully that helps answer that question for you. May says, I have been told living with an addict is like living with a narcissist. What are your thoughts on that? Yes, it is very much the same. There is a giant overlap in what it looks like, but it is different. I actually have two videos on this channel about that, like how to see the difference in like an addict or an alcoholic and a narcissist. So you can check those out to get the more in depth answer. But basically it's one of the ways to tell the difference is, you know, ask yourself what this person was like before the addiction. You know, did they have humility, could they admit faults? Could they see when they were wrong? Or are these behaviors mostly surrounding defense mechanisms related to the addiction? People that have addiction look and act narcissistically because the addiction puts you in that kind of place. But you can kind of tell the difference. It's like there are two different people when they're on and off substance. If you didn't know the person before, then find someone that did and ask them some questions and that'll help you figure out which one you're dealing with. Am I dealing with an addict? Am I dealing with a narcissist Am I dealing with somebody who has both? It is an important question to ask because one thing is fixable and one thing is not. So you definitely want to know which it is. Let's see here. Here's a question. My spouse is prescribed Klonopin while in early recovery. Now he lies to his psychiatrist and is still prescribed Klonopin. Over a year later, he's been actively drinking a pint of liquor and 10, 10 something. Is this dangerous? Any way to point this out without being the bad guy? Overstepping. Okay, so kp, you're saying your person is in early recovery, but they're lying to their psychiatrist and being given Klonopin and they're actively drinking a pint of liquor and something else. I just can't see the rest. First thing I would say is I wouldn't say this person's in early recovery. What I think you're saying is maybe they had an addiction with something else, maybe like pain pills or something, and they stopped that, but now they're still incompetent and drinking. What it sounds to me like is they've sort of switched addictions. So I would not call. If someone's drink taking Klonopins and they're lying to get the Klonopins and they're drinking a pint a day, I don't know that I would call that recovery. So that's part of the issue. Your question is, is can you point that out or say something without overstepping? It's going to be very difficult to do that. And I'm not sure if you're saying pointed out to the. The person or point it out to the psychiatrist. I don't know if you know the psychiatrist. Some people are different. If. But if you call a psychiatrist and tell them and then that psychiatrist tells your loved one or your spouse that you called, oh my gosh, you have just stepped in it so big. Like they'll just never get over. They'll just hold that over your head forever. So if. If there's a chance in your mind that you would call and then they would tell the person, which is a strong possibility, then I would not do that. Let's see. Oh, there's kp. There is the super sticker. Thank you so much. I really appreciate that. Facebook user says I have boundaries and have learned how to stay in my lane or hula hoop. I like that. He is 86 days clean and lapsed for 3 hours. Held my boundary. He started back on track the next day and then on Christmas Eve, we had dinner plans, got out and he had a drink and didn't realize it until we got there. Not a doc, but can be an issue. My boundary not to be around if he becomes negative or disrespectful to me anymore. It turned out, it turned that and I removed myself. He will then follow me and start to talk. I'm a bee, I'm selfish. So basically when they, when they use, they get nasty, they follow you around, they're pick a fight, they're mean, they're ugly, all that kind of stuff. So let me see. I feel like maybe there's more because it just sort of stops there. I don't see the rest of that question. Okay, let me look back at it. First of the first thing I want to say, I don't see your question here because it's just cutting off. And I know that when you're in chat it only gives you so many characters. I apologize for that. It's kind of a flaw. But one of the things I see here is I see that you're understanding what boundary means. And that makes me happy. I got like a little smile in my heart when I read this part. You said he relapsed and I held my boundary. And when you said what the boundary was, the boundary was that you don't want to be around him if he becomes negative and disrespectful. Let me tell you why I like this so much. Because it's not about him. Come. It's about you. It's you saying what you're going to do and not do. And the other reason why I'm going to give you like 5 stars for this boundary setting is because you're not even saying, if you drink, I'm not going to be around you. It's not that. That's not ever okay to say, but it's. It's hard to manage that because like you said, it's like he drank on Christmas Eve, you didn't even know it. But you're keeping it to the negative and disrespectful, which is much more appropriate. I don't want to be around you when you're like that. To me, completely appropriate, don't you guys think? I just think that that's awesome. Boundary setting. If they're literally following you around, then literally get in the car and remove yourself. You can ask them to leave, but sometimes they won't when they're intoxicated and they're not thinking. So have an escape route, remove yourself, whatever you need to do. I like your boundary setting, though. A plus. Let's see. CB says, how do you. How do you discuss the problem when the person will never discuss it? How can we get them to discuss the issue? They know they have it, but they hate to discuss it. The first thing you do is whatever level of discussing it that ever does happen, you want to make sure it's not a painful process. So you want to keep it casual, you want to keep it light, and you want to keep it short. So what you're doing is you're training them. This doesn't have to be horrible because no one likes to discuss it. But if you make it where it's not like you're trying to talk about all the time, it's not like you're pushing the conversation too far. A lot of times they'll get more comfortable and they will share a little bit with you about it. The other thing I would say is you don't have to discuss it. If they're saying, I know I got a problem, I need to do something. You don't have to discuss it in depth. You can say, okay, are you, you know, I'm going to make you a counselor appointment. Would you rather see a man or a woman, ask them a question, make the appointment. You don't have to talk about it, but see if you can get them to take an action step. And sometimes they'll talk about it more after they get cleaner. Maybe they're too shameful, they're too embarrassed, they're afraid it'll start an argument, something like that. Here's a question. Do you think someone can get clean off of heroin through using Subutex and then come off of Subutex and will still stay clean? Yes, I think that that's possible. What you're talking about is medication assisted treatment. And it's like anything else. It works if you work it. Some people use that stuff with no intention of acting right. And guess what? Doesn't work and they abuse it and they sell it and they, they do all the things right. But other people who are trying to really use the stuff appropriately, it can be very effective. I've got a client who is on Subutex who is doing wonderfully for several years now. And I would definitely consider that person in recovery. He's not lying, it's not sneaking, he's not manipulating. It's going to work every day, taking care of his family, like all the things, things. So I would call that person in recovery, whether they're on that or not. I will say and I have a video about this. There's a newer kind of thing out called Subucade Supplicade which is like a once a month injection and from what I'm understanding people are having a little bit more easier time of tapering off of that than they do some of the other stuff. But it's really the same thing. It's just different way of administering it. All right everybody, we are almost out of time. Thank you so much. Oh there's one more super chat. Thank you so much BC I appreciate that you are so kind. I'm not, I'm not even sure what currency that is but it looks like a lot. Thank you, thank you, thank you. I will see you guys next Thursday and keep your eye out Tuesday for the video that's coming out about dealing with people who get aggressive when they're drinking. See you soon. Bye everybody. Happy New Year.