What do Alcoholics/Addicts Think When You Set A Boundary?

Do you want to know what your addicted or alcoholic loved one is thinking when you set a boundary with them? Well, I'm going to go ahead and warn you. I'm going to tell you what they're thinking on this video today, but you're probably not going to like it. Heck, I don't like it myself. Okay, but we got to look at the truth. We got to look at what, react what when we say things. What, what are they thinking? How do they react? And we're going to take a look at maybe when you have to set boundaries, we're going to try to figure out what's the best possible way to set it. Sometimes it's not going to go well no matter what you do. But let's try to set ourselves up for the best outcome that we could, that we could get. Okay? Now, I've been working with people with substance abuse problems, addictions for a very, very long time. You guys know this, like 22 years or something. I don't even know. A long time makes me old. And the reason I know what they're thinking is because I'm the person that they talk to. I'm the person that they tell their frustrations to. And most of those frustrations are about their family members. I'm not saying it's right, but I want you to understand how they interpret the things that you say and that you do. Yesterday I was, I was listening into the. The members only live group group coaching call that Kim and Campbell do. I normally always have a 1:30 appointment on Wednesdays, but yesterday my 1:30 had canceled or for some reason that I didn't have one. And so I was listening in on their coaching call because that's when their coaching call is. And it was, it was, it was so interesting not to be the one on the call, like, answering the questions just to get to sit and listen. It was so nice because those girls were getting some serious hard questions thrown at them. And most of the time, most of the questions are about boundaries. Because when you're dealing with an addicted or alcoholic loved one, that's, that's like the biggest battlefield is it's the boundaries issue. So we're, we're always getting those kind of questions. And, and whenever I was, I was listening to these family members, they were asking Kim and Campbell. Reason I love Kim and Campbell is because they're the ones that look out for the family members. Because I literally noticed that as Kim and Campbell were given answers, like totally solid, healthy, good boundaries, I was thinking, yeah, but you could say this to the addict, or you could say that. And I was, like, in my head, defending the addictive person. And then I. What the heck is wrong with you, Amber? Like, I'm like, are you demented? And I'm like, you know what? It's not so much that I'm, like, overly empathetic with the person who has addiction. I am, but that's not really where I come from. I'm coming from a place of understanding how they're going to hear this and how they're going to interpret and what the response is going to be. So I know we say this on the channel, but we literally cannot say this enough. But even when I say it and you understand it, you're going to have to go deeper, and you're going to have to be honest with yourself about this. Okay? Boundaries are for you. That's. They are not for the person who has the substance abuse problem. You can build a fence around your backyard. You cannot build a fence around your neighbor's backyard. That's the way I like to think of it. And a lot of times, even. Even family members that listen to us and they're trying really hard to do everything we're saying, they'll say, well, I'm setting this boundary, and they'll put it under the guise of. To protect myself. When I know that a lot of times, it's really just sort of a disguised, sneaky way to think that they're gonna get some kind of leverage or control over the situation. But I just need you guys to understand. Boundaries do not make people with addictions change. Okay? Consequences do not cure addiction. Boundaries will not cure addiction. Boundaries are necessary, but they're simply there to keep you safe. So if you think about it like it's a fire, and you're a firefighter, right? The protective gear that firefighters wear, that doesn't make fires go away. It doesn't do anything to. To deal with the fire, but it does protect the fireman. Okay? And that's what I want you to think about your boundaries. Like, your boundaries are your fire suit. Now, how do you fight the fire? You protect yourself in the suit. Right? But how do you fight the fire? You fight the fire with water. And that's another thing important to remember. You can't fight fire with fire. You fight fire with water. Right? We got to douse it. We got to smother the oxygen out. And when it comes to addiction, we gotta, like, starve out the addiction. And what does the addiction need to live? The addiction needs secrecy. It needs darkness, it needs resentment, it needs self pity, and above all else, it needs a villain. And what you're going to do to get rid of this addiction is you are going to not provide it any of those things if you can help it. And most, you're not going to provide it the villain role. And it's going to be really hard because they're going to do everything possible to put you in that villain role, or the addiction is going to do everything possible to put you in that villain role, but you're going to resist it. So if your goal is simply 100%, like protect yourself and your family, and there's nothing wrong with that, you can say whatever boundary you want to, like, I'm totally cool with it. But if your goal is, I'm trying to get through to my addicted loved one, I'm trying to fight this fire, then I really, I need you guys to like, think differently about this. I feel bad when I say this, but you need to have the least amount of boundaries possible. You need to fight the least amount of boundaries that you absolutely can. Because every time you have to fight a boundary and you have to hold it and you have to do this, you will be in the villain realm. There's nothing much you can do about. There's just, it's really hard to hold the boundary and not be in the vill because I'm. We're about to get to. I'm going to tell you what they think when you set these boundaries and you'll understand what I'm saying when I say the villain role. So you do need to do that. You always need to do that when it comes to safety, right? If it comes to getting in the car with someone that's intoxicated and they're about to drive, I don't care what they think about that. I don't care if you're the villain. You're going to keep yourself safe. If it has to do with keeping your children safe, you always keep that boundary. And sometimes safety can also mean like financial safety, right? And emotional safety. But this is where we get into that gray area and where people get confused because maybe it's like, it's like, well, I'm protecting my financial safety. So I don't give my husband, who's the one that earns the money, access to the bank account, right? And I just give him 10, $10 a day or whatever. And you're saying that I'm protecting the financial security, right? This is where it gets gray. And this is the Part that requires you to get really, really honest with yourself. Because it's like there is, there is a need to keep your finances correct and safe. So probably you do need to figure out how to like, keep enough money to pay the bills and stuff like that safe. And so, but, but trying to control and give this daily allowance thing, that's where I think you can be kidding yourself into saying, like, well, I'm just protecting the finances. But really what you're trying to do is you're trying to like, give them such little amount of money. You can't go and buy alcohol or drugs or whatever it is. That's. This is where it requires a lot of honesty. So let's take a look at when you set the boundaries, no matter how minimal, no matter how fair, no matter how low you, like, literally you can have the bare minimal expectations, and they're not gonna like it and they're not gonna understand it. Okay? So you got to get okay with the fact they're not gonna understand it. They're not gonna agree with it, they're gonna be upset about it. No matter how fair it is. Just go ahead and prepare yourself for it. That's why I set the ones you gotta set. But, but, but remember, every battle that you fight is, is putting you in the villain role. So, so pick the ones that are important. I've been working on the invisible intervention update lately. I'm making the 3.0. I'm super excited about it. And all day I'm. I've been keeping notes on because I'm making a video about which battles to fight. Which ones do you fight and which ones do you not fight? I'm gonna go ahead and give you guys a little hint, a little sneak peek. You do not fight about. Great. You do not fight about whether someone goes to school or goes to work or brushes their hair. None of that. You got to get really clear. If you are dealing with addiction, this is life or death. And you're fighting the one battle, and that is addiction, and that's it. And all the other crap, we're not doing that. And it's hard because it is counter your instincts, right? We're not gonna, we're just. But every time you fight a battle, you. You lose a little bit of your power. Kind of like if you're playing an old school video game and you can see the, the power control, like the, the life, the life bar up there, you. You need to save your life bar to fight the big monster. Okay? All right. So when you set the Boundaries. Here's what they're thinking in their head. They're thinking. They're all defensive thoughts. Most likely the first thought they have is, that's a bunch of bs. That's not fair. They're thinking, why do you always make such a big deal about everything? You always catastrophize. You always think the worst case scenario. They're thinking, why are you always so critical? Like, literally, you're always so negative to me. All you ever do is point out the things I do wrong. They're thinking, you're overreacting. They're thinking that you never notice any of the good things that they do. It's like, all you want to do is be on my case. I do all these other great things. I, I help with the kids. I do the dishes. I, I folded the laundry up. You know, I, I took your mom to the doctor yesterday, and. And this is what you want to be on my case about, right? That's a, That's a big defensive thought. You want. They're going to be thinking, you know what? You're not perfect either. You always want to point out my flaws. But you, you got your own flaws, too. You need to look in the mirror. They're thinking that. They're thinking, you're so freaking uptight. They're thinking, I can't stand you if they're your kid. They're thinking, oh, my God, I hate you. They're thinking that, or they're minimizing it. They're thinking, you know what? You're making a big deal out of this one thing, and it really could happen to anyone. Because normally when you go in to set a boundary, it's kind of like after the final straw thing has happened. And so they, they, they realize that you're setting this boundary. They're connecting it something like, right? Like, like they've asked you for money 400 times, and you, and then you say, okay, I want to give this money, but this is it. You know, they know that you're drawing this hard line in the sand because of some, usually some specific incident, and that's why they can minimize it away and make the one incident. What they're going to do is they're going to look at that one incident, and that's why they're going to be able to tell themselves, like, you're overreacting. Like, okay, like, everybody runs short on money every now and then, right? What they're not going to do is they're not going to be able to see the big picture. And There are a lot of reasons for that. And I have so many videos on here telling you biologically why that is, psychologically why that is. This is not about beating up people with addictions. This is about rescuing people with addictions. And in order to do that, you absolutely must understand how they're going to think and how they're going to react to the boundaries. One of the. One of the things I was doing this week, working on the invisible intervention 3.0. So I was going through all the email consultations I've done this past year, and I was reading through one of the email consultations, and this email consultation was actually from a person with an alcohol problem. And they were telling me that they were literally saying, hey, I have alcohol problem. They were giving me the whole history of everything that happened and how it got bad in college, and they've been through periods where they've done better and worse and how they were still functioning. But they totally knew that this was a big problem, even though they had all of this insight and completely recognized that it's a problem. In the email consult, it says, but my family member, they said, they said they think I'm an alcoholic, even though this person already told me they're alcoholic in every single way. And it's like all these defensive thoughts against the family. So even when they know you're right, okay, they're going to have these defensive thoughts. It's a reflex, okay? And you would do the same thing. You know, people get on to us and you're in trouble, you have defensive thoughts. It's just the way it is. And when you're dealing with someone has an addiction, those. Those defensive thoughts are going to be even more irrational. So even in that email concept I was looking at, I thought it was interesting. I was like, this person is completely owning every bit of it. But when the family said something to her about it, she was like, I can't believe you. You know, it was sort of like attitude. In the. In the email console, you could sell attitude even in the writing, right? The defensiveness. Luckily, I think this person actually had insight into the fact that they had defensiveness. But I point that out just to really say, like, even when they know you're right, they're not going to like it. So don't be shocked when they don't get it. And for sure, completely, 100% understand that they are not going to respect your boundary, whatever boundary, no matter how minimal or how small or how absolutely nothing you ask of them, they're not going to do it, like, literally, if, if it's you and you're dealing with an addicted kid who's an adult or something, and, and all you ask them to do is send you a text once a week and just say, I'm alive. They won't do it. They may do it once, they may do the first week, but they won't do it consistently. And so it's. It's kind of like if you. You expectations, you lower the bar, you lower the bar, you lower the bar. And no matter how low you get, it's like, it's just like. I'm just asking you not to, like, curse at me. That's it. I'm just asking you not to curse me. They're gonna curse at you, okay? So. So just understand that that is going to happen. Which means when you set a boundary, you need to be fully prepared for how you're going to hold the boundary. You're responsible for your boundaries. If your boundaries are getting broken, it's not because they're breaking them, it's because you're breaking them. It's your fence. You're responsible for your fence, for your fireman suit, okay? So you can't come and say they're not, they're not respecting my boundaries. They're not following my boundaries, they're breaking my boundaries. These are words that we use. But I need you to understand and deepen your heart that only you can break your boundaries. So when you decide these boundaries, you need to understand what you're going to do. And whatever that is truly needs to be about you. It does not need to be about punishment. Like, sometimes it's like, well, maybe you're dating someone, has alcohol problem, and you're like, well, I'm not going to be around you if you're drinking. Well, that's not a bad boundary to have. However, I want you to think about one of two ways. First of all, when you set that boundary, you know you're dang well setting it, thinking in your mind that they're going to choose you over the alcohol. Well, I'm telling you like I told my client the other day. I said, you don't have to guess answers. I'm literally telling you the answers. I'm gonna tell you exactly what say, right. Giving you that. I'm giving you the answer. They're not going to do that, first of all, because they're going to think that's ridiculous. And they're gonna think, well, she's not really going to know it anyway. And they're Gonna think like, well, it's only just a little bit occasionally. Like they're just gonna have all these minimization and rationalizations. So what's gonna happen is, is they're gonna try to drink less and be around you and hope that you don't notice. That's what's going to happen at first. And then you are going to notice because you're hyper vigilant and you're watching out for it and you freaking know when they're not themselves. And then you're going to have to be fully prepared to not hang out with that person. Which is probably going to mean you're not going to hang out with them either. Like only a tiny little bit or none at all. Because if you're dealing with someone has alcohol problem, they, they may not even have the capacity to not drink and be around you. So, so think through very clearly. Am I ready, willing and prepared to do this? Not if, when you will have to back the boundary up. So don't say something that you can't do either. Because sometimes you want to set a boundary and you're just really not emotionally prepared to do it or you're literally incapable of doing it. Right? Like let's say this is your spouse and you say, I'm not going to be around you when you're drinking. Well, that can get a little hard. Can it? You can definitely go in your room, you can shut the door, and depending on the other person and their personality and how they react to things, they, they may follow you in there. Right? You may literally have to leave your house. So if you set a boundary like that, which I'm not telling you can't set. I'm just saying, like, I just really want you to think these things through. And if your person gets aggressive when they drink or something, then, then, then what you need to do is set the boundary around the aggressiveness, not just the drinking. If what you're trying to do is help this other person get out of denial, the reason is, is because in their mind, if they have one beer and then you're just like, well, I'm just not gonna be around you. You see what that does to your credibility? Makes something. Oh my God, they're so ridiculous. They're overreacting. Like, it's one beer. Now, I know that you know it's not going to be one beer, but they don't know that because they're, they're being dishonest with themselves because they have addiction and they're telling themselves it's going to be just one or two or something like that. You know, it's going to be more than that. So when you say that, when you set a boundary around that, I might suggest you say, I'm not going to be around you when you start getting in that aggressive state, or if I feel it, come on, I'm just going to exit myself. Right. And you're going to find a way to exit that situation. Because it's hard for even a person that has an addiction, addict or alcoholic, to think that that's unreasonable, that you're not going to hang around when they get aggressive. I mean, if you tell it to them when they're super intoxicated, they may not get it, but other than that, they're going to realize it. Okay, that's fair. Okay. So there are some ways to set these boundaries that are. That are slightly more effective and that. And that's one of them. Set the boundary around the behavior. Not, not, not just the behavior as far as like drinking or using or whatever. But, but the unmanageability, the problems that are the result of the drinking or using. So, so you're. Wherever that comes into your lane, wherever their addiction starts to come in your lane in a way that it is absolutely not. Okay. That's where you want to set your boundary, and you want to make it about the lane crossing, not necessarily about the substance, because they're going to understand that better if you just say something like, and this is a common. If you're gonna smoke weed or whatever it is, you can't live in this house. Okay, first of all, again, I think when you say that you're being dishonest to yourself and you're thinking that they're gonna, like, give up that weed because they want to have a place to live. I'm telling you right now, they're not going to. Okay, they're gonna sneak it in your house. Best case scenario, they're going to be doing it in the car in the driveway, and they're. It's going to be close to the house. But I, I seriously even doubt that that would be the case. It's going to be in your house. So be prepared to back it up. What you want to do is you want to set it around the unmanageability. So if, if they're using that substance crosses over into your lane, like it's messing up your finances is like. Destroying your house is like, making them aggressive is like, whatever. They're not getting a job or they're not working or whatever. It Is that. Want to set the boundary around. And you can set your boundary around anything that comes in your lane. But I'm going to strongly encourage you to be very selective. Set it where you must set it. Because every battle that you fight takes your little lifeline down. It's your credibility and your relationship. It is the weapon that you have to. It is the water. It's the weapon that you have that can destroy addiction. It's the only thing. No amount of horrible bad things will destroy it. It's kind of like you cannot put a fire out by shooting bullets at it. It's not gonna work. Okay. Might make it worse. You need the credibility and the connection and the relationship. It's the only thing that can beat it. So. So understand you have like a budget of it, right? And you have to build that crap up. Takes. Takes a while to do. And so when you. When you fight the battles, you lose a little bit of it. I want you to literally see the Mario brothers lifeline or whatever it is. I don't think Mario has the lifeline. Who has the life on the old school video games. That's what I want you to picture in your head. It's like going down. You're fighting the big monster. All right? So other ways that you can deal with these boundary issues is. Is realize you don't have to set a boundary around everything. I love Kim, one of our family coaches in our membership program, she. She calls. She has this thing and she calls it the information update. Some of you guys may have seen the video she did about boundaries on the channel. She Talk up information update. You don't have to say if this. Then that every one of those things is really. It's a rule you're setting. It's like it's boundary and you got to back it up. And it's a pain. Okay. But what actually works more effectively than setting that boundary if you. If you can create the relationship and the connection is you want them to feel something and you want them to feel something that's not anger and resentment, but those other emotions are kind of helpful, like empathy for you or understanding for you or maybe even a little guilt. Little guilt can be. Can be good as long as you're not trying to put the over guilt on them and they know what's up and it's making them mad. But. So let me tell you an information update. You can say instead of saying, if you lie to me one more time, I'm leaving. Whatever. That's a boundary. You could do that or you could say, when, when you lie to me, it makes me not be able to trust you anymore. That's the natural consequence. Anytime you can allow the natural consequence to happen versus a punishment from you or anything that can be perceived as a punishment for you from you, it's better. The more natural, the more better. Because you do want them to get uncomfortable, but you want that uncomfortableness to not come from you. Because every time it comes from you, it puts you in the villain role. And that feeds the addiction. It gives it the oxygen. But when there's uncomfortableness and you're not in that villain role, then that creates these. These. It does create these uncomfortableness emotions inside of them. But if. If you're in the good guy role, it helps them to think through and understand what's happening to them better. So it's kind of like my kid said to me one day. I mean, he was young. He was like, he's not even at the age. This was like several years ago. He was saying, well, he loves to play this what would you do? Game. What would you do? What would you do? And he asked me this big, what would you do? I'm like, I don't know. He says, what would you do if I snuck out of the house and, like, went down to my friend's house even though you told me no, what would you do? And. And I. And I think, you know, he's waiting for me to say, oh, you would be so grounded. You would, like, lose your video games or whatever. I said, I guess I just would, like, lose trust in you. And then he says, well, what. What does that matter? What does that mean? What does that mean? Feels. Trust me. I said, well, if it lose. If I lose trust in you, then, like, when you ask me to do stuff, I'm going to be a lot more likely to say no. Like, I'm be a lot less likely to sort of like, let you be independent, let you do things on your own. Because I'm going to think, like, I can't trust you every time I turn my back, like, you're going to do something sneaky. I was like, trust is the most valuable thing you have. You don't want to lose that. That's what I told my son. So instead of saying, you're going to get grounded, you're going to lose your Xbox, instead of putting the punishment out there, you just the natural consequences. If you lie and you sneak, you lose trust. Which you want to say something that's heartfelt and that's genuine and that's real. So it's like, for example, maybe one of the issues is every time you go out with your spouse, they do whatever too much, and it feels really embarrassing. It is perfectly fine to set a boundary of I'm not going to go to family functions with you anymore because I know you're going to drink and you're going to act full. You're not going to say that part, but it's fine to say I'm not going to go to family functions. But another thing that you can say that might be slightly more effective, and it's not a boundary, it's an information update, as Kim would call it, is to say something like, you know, when that happens, I feel embarrassed. But actually more than that, I just feel like everybody's thinking that I'm an idiot and why do I put up with you? And it. It just makes me feel, like, ashamed of myself. It makes me feel like I'm. Like, I'm stupid for staying, but I. But I don't want to leave you and I love you and. But then I feel like I'm just being stupid or I'm just being played. So you're just going to be sort of heartfelt and genuine and honest. That is going to do a better job of getting through to them. You always protect yourself. If the fire gets too bad, you leave the building. Okay? But if you're still in there, you're still fighting this fire. These are the things that work better. The heart belt, the boundaries that are really around the unmanageability, not the substance. That's going to do a better job of helping them to see they're. Because they're just going to understand that's reasonable. Right? Hike. If you set a boundary, like, I'm not going to let you be around our kid if you're drinking. Okay, I understand that's appropriate boundary. I'm not telling you can't set that. But. But I want you to. I just want you to know what they're going to think. What they're going to think about that boundary is you're being ridiculous. Parents have drinks in front of their kids all the time. Oh, my gosh. You have a glass of wine in front of our kid. What is wrong with you? They're not going to see that. They're not going to understand that part that you understand, which is, if I have one, I'm going to have 20. What you can say that's maybe slightly more related to unmanageability is you can say, listen, if I think you're getting too intoxicated. I'm going to take the kids, not take the kids forever, although that could happen. But, but basically it's, I'm going to hire a babysitter instead of leave them, you know, I'm going to do whatever I got to do to keep them safe. If you, if, if you're getting too intoxicated to watch the kids and it's not a good situation for them, I'm going to remove them. Rather than saying if you do this, like, they're gonna think you're being overreactive because it's like if you just drink one beer, blah, blah, because they're not gonna see the big picture. Hopefully that's making sense. I know it's sort of splitting hairs, but the splitting of these hairs really does make a big, huge difference. In just a second, I'm gonna take some questions from you. If you have questions, go ahead and put them in the chat. If you're watching live, if you're watching on the playback, go ahead and put them in the comments and I will answer as as many of them as I can. Lately we've had so many. I've definitely not had a chance to answer all of them. So go up there and I'll try to. I usually try to just go from the top down. So that's the only fair way to know I know how to do it. And as you guys are doing that, as always, I have resources in the description. There's still time to get into the membership and do the no More Mr. Bad Guy challenge, which is literally been the. My favorite thing that we've done with the membership so far because we we've had, I think maybe getting close to 200 people do the no More Mystery Bad Guy Challenge and, and we've had some good results. It's really been fun, like seeing you guys take those action steps and those little tiny baby steps and watching the change. It's been super fun. So that's down there. Invisible interventions down there if you want to get your loved one out of the know all the stuff, right. So check it out. There's free resources on the website, all that kind of stuff. Let's take some questions. Here we go. Let's see. Hey, Rashimi. Hey, Jennifer. And nine Millimeter Mama And Regina Effie is on here. Tiffany, the Sacred Owl. The Sacred Owl says you're studying for your lcdc. I'm guessing that's like it. Ours isn't called that, but I'm guessing it's some kind of like addiction. Counselor credential. That's. That's what I'm assuming. I mean, glad you're here and glad you're, like, joining the fight. We need as many soldiers as we can get. Hey, Saran. Hi, Prairie mama. Hello. Hello. Katie. Katie says, oh, it's so hard to stay out of the villain role. I get out of it again last week, and then things are already 100 better. See, I always say if you get out of the villain row, it may not make them stop the addiction right away, but it will, like, fix the relationship pretty quick. Like, the. The tension in the air will go down quick enough. And I appreciate you saying that, Katie. I feel totally validated. Catherine says, how do you evaluate the impact of the addict's intoxicated behavior around the kids as it pertains to the emotional safety? That's such a big question, Catherine. I. I don't have a big, general, like, overarching answer that would feel this voice, like, that would be effective answer for me to give you, because some of that stuff is so gray, right? And when. When it's a situation where it's like you're a parent or you're a grandparent and you're trying to protect your kids from maybe the kids from maybe another parent's addiction, it's really hard. And you're stuck in this rock and hard place because you're like, I know it's damaging to take their parent away, right? But I'm a damage on by leaving them. Right? And that's. That's just where the line is. So. So I'd literally have to hear from you, Catherine, about what exactly was happening to help you make some of those. Some of those decisions. I'm sorry, I can't give you a better answer. Let's see here. That's right. Melissa says, ask yourself, do I want to die on this hill? That is exactly what you do. When I was my first counselor job was on the adolescent unit in a psych hospital. And that was our saying. That was like, literally our unit motto was, is that the hill I want to die on? Is this the most important battle to fight? And if it's not, you're not fighting it. So one of the things I loved about being a counselor after being a teacher, because when you're a teacher, you had to fight every single little battle. And I hate fighting all the battles. So when I moved in the council room, like, literally, I'm. I am not fighting with you about. I don't have to say, pull your pants up. I don't have to say, where's your hall pass? Like none of those things. Things so much better. Let's see here. Lac has a question my alcoholic husband is looking for. Looking at potential jail time not from drinking, but from poor decisions. We have two kids together. They are small. He does not look like he is going to change. Divorce isn't. Looks like there's more of this an option. I don't know what to do. He may just walk away from us and then turn our lives even more upside down because of the bitterness. He may just walk away. He has also lost his job because of the loss of his driver's license. So unmanageability is getting big. Where is the question? Lac, I know you said there's a question here. I don't want to ignore you. I don't want to ignore your question, but I'm not sure where the question is. See here, Facebook user says, can you please send Your channel on YouTube? Yes, the channel on YouTube is called Put the shovel down. So right now we have people watching on Facebook and we have people watching on YouTube. You can watch these lives from either place. But the all the playbacks and stuff like that are a lot easier to find on YouTube. Jennifer says, how do we get over failed boundary attempts? I thought I was creating healthy ones and they backfired. Do I give it some time before trying it again another way? Well, I guess I would want to know, like, how did it backfire? Did it backfire because it put you in the bad guy role? Did it backfire because you just weren't able to hold the line for whatever reason? If, if it backfired because you couldn't hold the line, it's not a matter of saying the boundary differently. It's about. It's a matter of evaluating the boundary differently or creating a circumstance where you can protect yourself in some kind of way. So I, I need to know more, Jennifer. I need to know like, what is the failed boundary attempt and why did it fail? Sristy says, what happens when you practice craft? You're out of the bad guy roll and your loved one gets ab you after drinking, you ask them to leave. Does it make any difference then when, when someone is gets abusive with you and they're dangerous, that's when you set the boundary. Now when they're intoxicating, you ask them to leave. I just want you to be. This is definitely a boundary you need to set. So let me say that you. This is a boundary you need to set. So don't question it. But what I what I'm going to say is you're going to say you want them to leave. And if they're intoxicated, it may be very difficult for them to leave. So you need to be prepared that you can leave and have a way to leave and an exit plan and a way out of the house and all that kind of stuff. Because if they're drinking and they're aggressive, they're unreasonable, right? And. And it's not going to be easy to, like, physically make them move. When I used to work on the adolescent unit in the hospital, if someone was like acting up crazy in the group or something, you could, you could try to ask them to leave or remove themselves, and sometimes they wouldn't. And if that happened, you literally had every kid and yourself, and you step up and everybody else removes themselves and leaves them in there. That's what you do. That's the boundary. The boundary is I am not going to subject myself when you're mean, when you're being aggressive. I'm just going to leave the situation. I'm going to remove myself. So if it's. If it's. I can go to the bedroom and shut the door and that works. Do that. But if it's, I need to leave, you need to figure out how to leave. And you may think that's unfair. Maybe they don't even work. You pay all those bills. It is unfair. But you got to do what you got to do to protect yourself. Angie says, how do I join the membership? If you look in the description of this video, there's a link to it talks about, like the group coaching and stuff. And you can join that. There's group coaching, there's advanced skills training, there's the challenges. Next month, challenge Campbell's gonna do is about self care. That's why I love Campbell and Kim, because they just do a better job of looking after y'. All. Look at me. I'm on here telling you you can't even have your boundaries. You're one. You're one thing left. They do. They're better advocates for you guys. Let's see. Regina says, we went to counseling together. He takes coke and alcohol, and she told him that for stopping coke, he should stop drinking for a while to disassociate both. He never followed her advice. Is there more to this, Regina? Okay, here's some more. Is it a boundary to say that I don't feel comfortable to keep the relationship while he doesn't follow what she says, knowing that he cheated on me because of being high on Coke. Okay, so this is several pieces to this. First of all, the advice from the counselor. It is pretty. It's. It's good advice because most of the time when somebody has, like, a cocaine problem, it goes hand in hand with drinking. And usually what they think is, they think, well, I don't have a drinking problem. I just have a problem with the cocaine, and I just need to stop that. What? They don't recognize this number? They can't. They're going to keep going back to it as long as they're drinking, because drinking turns off the part of your brain that helps you remember that you're not doing coke anymore. Okay? So that's why it just doesn't work and it's just paired together. So the advice. The advice was, was good. Now, in the long run, ultimately, this person would just need to stop drinking. But what this counselor is doing is sort of meeting them where they're at. Now you're asking, is it okay to set a boundary and say that you don't feel comfortable staying in the relationship unless they follow the counselor rules? I don't know that I would. I don't know that I would word it that way. Because you're saying, I'm not going to stay with you if you don't fall and do everything they say. That's not going to make sense to your person. Okay, so what you want to say is I'm not going to be able to really trust you and let myself be fully, like, present in this relationship with you as long as you're doing cope, because in my mind, I associate that with you cheating, and it keeps me constantly triggered. And I don't even know if you'd want to be in a relationship with me like that, because I'm not, you know, I'm not the greatest to be around when that happens. So. So what you're saying is it's information update. What you're saying is, is as long as you're doing that, I am staying triggered, and it's going to be very, very difficult for me to stay in this with you. You. It's not going to bring the best out in me, which is probably going to be bad for this relationship because I'm going to be constantly worried. That's what I mean when I'm saying make it about the unmanageability, making it about the counselor rule. You're. What you're trying to do is you're just trying to, like, set the boundary, but you're trying to make it the counselor's fault. And. And then what's going to happen is, is y' all are going to go to counseling. He. You're going to know he's used. He's not going to want to tell the counselor that you're going to tell on him. And then he's going to start to see the counseling, like. Like going to the principal's office, and then he's going to just let him know that. And. And you don't have to necessarily say, I can't stay in this relationship, but you can say, I'm not going to be able to, like, like, trust you and really be in this with you, and as long as it's happening. And then eventually you may have to decide, well, he's not going to stop. So I'm gonna. I'm gonna leave this relationship. What you don't want to do is set this boundary the way you're saying, Aunt Regina, and think to yourself, like, he's gonna know I mean business, and he's gonna pick me over that. Like we said, this boundary. Be 100% fully prepared. Not if, but when. You will have to hold that boundary. Let's see. Barb says hubby is in denial about his marijuana use. He's been through treatment three times, and each time he tells me he did it for me and doesn't understand why it bothers me so much. He doesn't feel he has a problem. I have a few things to say about this, Barb. One is I personally think treating this specific addiction is. Is the hardest because they really don't understand why it is such a problem. They. They have a lot of unmanageability, but they don't connect that unmanageability to the marijuana use. So the other thing I want to say about this is he's saying, I did it for you. That's great. That's a wonderful thing. He's trying to. He's trying to make you feel bad, like, I did it for you and it doesn't count. It's not gonna work because I'm only doing it for you. Listen, I think that's a great reason. Everyone always says you have to do it for yourself. And I say, no, there's no bad reason. Never heard a reason, but I did not. There's no better reason to get sober. Don't care what it is. They're all really good reasons. And in fact, I suggest you have several if possible. Most people do have more than one. And I think doing it for someone else that you love and care about should be one of the reasons to do it, because honestly, they don't. They don't. They don't care if it's hurting them. Right? They don't care if it's hurting their health or their lungs. So doing it for yourself isn't enough. Doing it because you want to be a good husband, doing it because you want to be a good father and you don't want that affect your kids. That's a really good reason. So don't let them turn that on. You say, I appreciate that you're the best. Thank you for doing that. You just take that and don't even feel bad about it. And I would say that's awesome. Your good husband for that. What you're going to want to do to get him out of denial, though, is you're going to have to let the consequences happen that he cannot associate with you. Because if all the boundaries and all the consequences are coming from you, it makes it look like you're just being ridiculous and uptight and overly critical and all those things like I said before when I said, what are they thinking? That's what he's gonna be thinking. So it's just hard with this substance because it takes a while for the consequences come. But don't worry, they will. You just have to back up and let them. But don't let it be associated with you if you're trying to get them out of denial. Let's see here. Chan says, can you explain? Can you explain? The bargaining phase goes. You explained multiple times the thinking behind it, but how should we expect it to be going well? The. The bargaining phase. The good news about the bargaining phase, as annoying as it is to you, the family member, you know, for you, it feels like, oh my God, they're never gonna get this. They said this 10 times. Can't they see it's not gonna work? The good news is, is that when they're in a bargaining phase, it means that they're aware on some level that there's some level of problem. They just don't have the solution just yet. So bargaining phase usually looks like the, let me cut it back. Some version of I'm going to cut it back. And then it looks like I'm only gonna let myself do it on the weekends. And then it looks like, well, only on special occasions. And then it looks like, well, let me just do like a 30 day reset, right? These are sort of progressive ways that people try to manage it. Like if it's drinking, it's usually, let me just not drink this kind of alcohol. But it's okay if I Dr. This kind of alcoholic, not the harsh stuff, but just this, something like that. And it'll just be several attempts to manage the substance. And you don't want to try to stop that necessarily because people have to prove to themselves that it's not going to be manageable. So when someone is bargaining, the worst thing you can do is help them let that bargain work. For example, if someone says to you, I think it'll be fine if I, I only never drink more than three beers at one time. Okay? The worst thing you can do. Are you listening to me? Y' all listen close, okay? Looking at you. I'm giving you the lasers. I saw them giving you the lasers. Is if they've ordered three beers, you're at the restaurant and they're about to order that fourth is for you to stop them. It's literally the worst thing because what you're trying to make happen here is you're trying to get them see they're not sticking to their own limits. Limits don't help them stick to the limits. If they say, I'm not going to drink the hard alcohol anymore. And then they, they go back to, you need to let it happen. So they can see that's how you get on the other side of it is, is they can prove it themselves. So don't try to like manage their bargaining for them. You're literally making the denial go longer. You're keeping on denial. You're putting yourself in the villain role. You're giving them distractions so that they don't learn their lessons. So I hope that helps a little bit. I can't tell you how long it will last. It depends on the person. Some people that are super self reflective will catch themselves doing it fast and they'll, they'll be more honest with themselves and they'll figure it out faster. And other people, they just have a higher pain threshold and they have a lot more excuses and it takes, and it takes a lot longer, but it will, it will go faster if you don't try to make them keep to their bargains. What you want is for their bargains to fail and fail quickly so we can get to the next bargain. We get all these done, check them off list so we can get to the okay, like, this just doesn't work for me stage. That's where you're trying to get. Let's see here. Angie says, my son is supposed to get up inpatient today or tomorrow. I want more on how to communicate so as not to Trigger raw spots. I'm not sure how much support he will have for wife and daughter. I have a whole video on this. Like what to do. I can't. I'm trying to think of the exact name, but it's like when someone's newly released from treatment or something like that, like how to interact with them. There is a whole video on it. But. But essentially what I would say is just don't be weird. Don't talk about it all the time. Don't be acting all nervous around them. Just be cool. Just be yourself. Just be regular. Because they're uptight. And the last thing they need is to sense your uptightness and. And your over serious and your over worriedness. It's gonna. They're gonna feel all your anxiety and they're gonna take that on. So the best thing you can do is just be regular. Be casual. Like send messages. That's. That's like you got this. But in a super casual way. I'll be like, dude, you got this. You got this. Like, I know you do not like a. I know you can beat this, honey. Like, don't do that. Then this just feels icky and it's just anxiety producing. So just be cool and casual and. And say, what do you need? I got you. Like, you need a ride to the meeting. You need me to. Whatever. Like if there's something you can do to help support the recovery, then do that. But just don't be weird about it. Let's see here. Let's see. Married a long time. Says Amber wanted to say thank you. We had a wonderful time camping. He drank and I didn't care because I have let him create his own chaos. You. Your answer made me see like I remember when you asked this question on the live Mary a long time you. Was that last week? It was recent I knew you guys discussion about the camping. I said, oh yeah, let it roll. Let it. You don't want to help the bargains. You want it to roll fast. You know, I told y'. All. Campbell calls it game on. Game on. That's what you're thinking. Let's see. So congrats. You did good job. I'm proud of you. Let's see here. Candace says Amber, how do you address the family dysfunction as the main cause of the client's addiction problems? Family refuses to accept their role in the trauma related to the addiction. Candace, are you an addiction counselor? You're that your wording makes me think that you're an addiction counselor because it just sounds like super clinical the way you're saying that, which is awesome. Here's the thing. If you're an addiction counselor, they're going to be talking to you about the family dysfunction. What you need to do as a supporter, this person is you need to not let them make that their excuse to keep using, whether it's true or not. Right? Number one, if you're talking about, like, family of origin dysfunction, even if they came from a f'd up family, you're not doing anybody any favors by sort of over sympathizing for them and saying, you know, your family's not acting right. I mean, you can. You can kind of like, have that empathy for them, but, you know, they just. They can't. You can't put that responsibility on the family. In most cases, a lot of the family dysfunction that's happening is a reaction to the addiction. So the person will come and tell you, like, my family's this, my family's that. Like, I've literally never dealt with a husband who did not tell me their wife was a crazy, controlling. Always think in the negative, worst case scenario, critical doomsday, control freak. That. That's the story. I can. I can write it for you. And a lot of times, that is the story because it's a reaction to the problem. So. And if you're trying to come at families by saying, you know, you're the problem, you got to stop. I know you wouldn't say it that directly, but they don't want to hear that. It ticks them off. It's insulting. It's almost like sometimes when you say, you need to go to Al Anon, it can feel insulting to do that. I can tell you the trick that I use. That worked for me. It took me a long time. This was a lot of years for me to learn this. When I used to say, families, hey, you need to get in here too, because, you know, you need to work on your stuff. And this never worked. Even if I said, well, you know, you. You need some support too. You know, someone to care about. That never worked either, because they don't want that, because they don't want to have to go talk to one counselor, pay more money for this person's dang problem, them. What does work is this. It does work is if you say, hey, I don't need you to get involved, because I'm gonna need the real truth. And I know I'm not gonna get the real truth. So I'm gonna need you to come up here and talk to my. My counselor Campbell, my Counselor camp. So I know what's up. They will come up and, and do that with like on two wheels like tuck and roll out of the car so fast. Come and tell you that and then you can sort of slide the other stuff into the back door. So don't just like with a person has an addiction, you want to build a rapport. You want to hear them, you want to have empathy, you want to give them information they need but through the back door. Door. That was long answer. I hope it was helpful. Lauren says my husband is not drinking but and is not working a program. I feel like I can never tell him small issues we're facing. He's overwhelmed so easily. Any ideas about how to communicate more effectively. I might make a process comment about it. I might say hey and it sounds like maybe the person is sort of newly as sober. I don't know. But you want to say, you know, lately I feel like every time I tell you something it upsets you. It makes me feel like I can't tell you things. I'm worried about how you're going to react. It's a process comment and it might make them more aware of how they're sort of just like jumping or getting irritated or you know, not handling it well whenever you bring small things to them. So I would do like an information update. Casual, nice tone, kind of inquisitive, a little bit in the west. Like I don't know what to do. Like is it the time of day I approach you? Is it like the my tone? Is there something I can do to do better? It's not so much because you really need the answer to that but more you're trying to bring this to their awareness. Emily says our 18 year old son lost his driver's license and it will cost him around 500 and he has not done anything to get a job. We will not bail him out. Any suggestions on what to do to encourage him? I, I don't think I would. I understand what you're saying. First of all, let me say good job for not paying the money. Nice. You get a, A all stars for you. Emily, you, you don't want to like encouraging him to get a job isn't going to work or be effective. Okay. The only way someone is encouraged to get a job is because they need money. And, and whatever's going on with your son isn't. It's not even worth the money and the time to be able to drive. Which tells me there's, there's a problem here. Right. Because who Doesn't. Who doesn't want to be able to drive. Right. If it's a 500 obstacle for most young adults like that, between them and figuring out and being able to drive, they're going to figure that out one way or the other. Even if they don't like to work, they're going to figure that out. And he's not figuring it out. So it makes me think, think you're on this channel for a reason. The only way to encourage someone to get a job is to let things get really uncomfortable for them and put their responsibilities on them. Let the world say, well, you're gonna have to have some money if you're gonna function in this world, so you gotta back out of paying things for them, I guess is what I'm saying. That's the only way you're going to do that, which you are doing that with the, with the driver's license thing. But if he's addicted to something, that may not be enough. It might have to get more uncomfortable. Hey, Maria, thank you for the compliment. I appreciate that. Melanie says, I have a question. My hubby is saying he's trying to stop drinking, but I know he is still lying and sneaking and saying he is not. But I can quit. I can clearly tell he has been. What should I do? Should I act like I don't know or tell him I know, or just be a little cold to him? Good question. I love that you threw in. Or just be a little cold to him. Because most people wouldn't throw that in there, but that's exactly what they would do. Melanie, you're just being honest. The being a little cold to him is not the thing I would do. The way I say is, you can either be positive with positive validation or neutral. And sometimes when I say neutral, people do the silent treatment. They do the cold thing and they call it neutral. I'm like, you know, that's not neutral. You know, that's like. You send in strong signals where you're neutral and, and you're very self aware. I can tell Melanie. So you're not gonna do that. But I think you could play this either way. You know your person's personality the best. I think you could not say anything and let it surface itself because trust me, it will surface itself. You don't have to bring it to the surface. Or if he's telling you he's not drinking, say, well, I mean, to be honest, I'm aware that, that, you know, you're having something every now and then, but. But I do Notice that you're trying to cut it back and that you're trying to be respectful about it. And I appreciate that. So it's a way of saying, I know you're trying, but I also know you're doing this over here. I appreciate you trying, but I know what's up. So you know your person best. I would go one of those two ways, but I would not go the cold dam thing. If, if you're trying to get through them. Does holding a boundary work better when you're out of the bad guy wrong? Yes, it does. Yes, because they're gon understand your boundary is, is more reasonable. Let's see here. Matt says, I have been doing the craft. That's the craft method. That stands for community reinforcement and family therapy training. For those of you who haven't heard this, I do have some videos on the channel about it. We teach it in our invisible intervention. There's some books you can get about it. For those of you who don't know what that is. So Matt says have been doing this method and hearing some change talk. Very nice. But my alcoholic is so afraid to face the mental health issues that she's been masking. What type of help should I push her towards? When is there more? I see an opening to talk about it. Okay, first of all, gold stars for you, Matt. You're doing the craft method and it's working. And I know you're doing it because you use the term change talk, which means you, you're like following along. You get it. You're understanding the principles. And this part right here, Matt, this is also why I know you're doing good because you said, and I see an opening for it, which means that you're getting it. You know that timing is so important. So first of all, you're doing awesome. Very good. Okay. The thing is this. When someone has trauma or anxiety or depression or all these other things that go along with addiction, the addiction is making it. It 450 times worse. In a lot of cases. In the majority of cases, when people address the addiction, the mental health stuff like goes completely away or way down to manageable. Okay. There are some cases like, you know, we're dealing with PTSD or something like that. It doesn't go completely away, but it reduces by a big giant percent. You cannot treat the mental health stuff and leave the addiction going because some. Sometimes it's easy to get in your mind and think, well, they're addicted because this horrible thing happened to them in childhood. Right. I don't know That I would agree with you about that. Most people would agree with you about that. I don't know if I would, but it doesn't matter. What I can tell you is, is that you could go to every kind of trauma treatment, every kind of trauma intervention, but if somebody's pouring chemicals on their brain, it's not going to take. Take. So you have to address the addiction first. So when you're saying, what am I pushing towards? What am I aiming at? You're. You're aiming at addressing the. The addiction first and then. Or. Or simultaneously if you want to. But you can't do the mental health before the addiction. It just doesn't work. Great, Great question. Let's see here. Gretchen says, I want to thank Campbell for answering my question. Your service is reasonable, affordable, and having put my question in my thoughts and feelings into compliance format is very helpful. Hey, I'm gonna tell Campbell you said that. Thank you, Gretchen. Are you. Are you in our family membership? Sounds like maybe you are. That's awesome. What I meant, though, this is chan. What I meant. If you see this from the beginning of the bargaining phase through the end, my husband is going through it, and I'm looking for an idea of what to expect. Okay. What you want to expect is that they're. They're going to try a bunch of things that's not going to work, and they're going to try them more than once. So they're going to try the cutting it back, and. And it's not going to work, but they're going to be like, well, that only. Only didn't work because of special reasons. So you're gonna have to let them try it, and you're gonna have to let them try it a few times. Okay. And then while that's happening, you're getting yourself out of the bad guy roll, and you're building credibility with this person. And then the next time they want to try the bargain, you're gonna say, okay, but if this doesn't work, can we do this? And you're gonna set it up, and if you've gotten yourself out of the baggage roll, and if you've let them try their tries, they're probably going to be like, all right, you're right. They're. They're gonna. They. They may still want to keep trying it the other way, but they're going to realize that they need to do something else. So they're. They're a lot more likely to go along with it. And if they don't, at some point when you Say, okay, well, I can't do this anymore and this is working for me. And you gotta. Gotta put the. Put the big boundary down. As in the big boundary. Like, I'm not gonna stay in this anymore. Then there's a chance that they're gonna be like, all right, all right, all right, I got it. I'm do it. I'm gonna do it. Don't. Don't put the big boundary down as an ultimatum just to try to get that response. But I'm just saying if you've gotten out of the bag of roll and you put the big daddy down, it's a lot more likely to work if you've let them do their bargains. And if you're out of the bad guy roll. Let's see here. Tyen says. Tyen says, my spouse was fired today for missing too much work due to his alcohol abuse. I was making plans to leave as the situation and abuse is too much. Should I continue with my plan to leave? Okay, listen to me. If you're planning to leave. I am. Then that was for you. Okay? And this doesn't change your situation. If you are trying to leave to get him to see the light, that's a bad idea. It's not going to work. So I'm guessing that if you're leaving, it's. It's to the point that you. You have to do that for you. You. You do need to understand this isn't trying to make you feel bad, and I'm not trying to tell you change your mind at all, but it's going to get mad because when either of those two things go, it goes from bad to worse. So when the spouse leaves, it goes out of control or when they lose their job. And so if this person has both at once, it's going to go out of control. But that may not be the worst thing, because if your person's in denial, maybe that's, you know, it needs to get bad and it needs to get bad fast so they can see it. So if you leave, it is going to get worse. That doesn't mean you should not leave, though. All right, everybody, we are out of time. Thank you, thank you, thank you. For all of you who join me, live, your questions get better and better every week. And I can literally tell you guys are following this advice. You just need a little tweak, a little. How do I apply this every now and then? I can just tell by the comments are just on target and. And the language you're using and all that, it just makes me excited. It makes my heart so happy. There are resources in the description and I will see you guys next Thursday at 1pm Eastern. Bye everybody.