What Happens When An Addicted Loved One Refuses Treatment

So I think telling someone that they can't live in the house with you or you're not going to stay with them unless they go to treatment is a really bad, terrible idea. Hold on a second. Before you send all the hate comments, let me explain what I mean. You know, you frequently hear this. You hear people say, well, you know, I'm not like, I'm going to divorce you unless you go to treatment, or you can't stay in this house unless you go to treatment. And I understand the thinking behind that, because it's like this person's addiction is destroying the house and in anybody else that lives in it, honestly. And so I'm for sure on board with that thinking. I just think that treatment isn't exactly what you're after. So I think it's important to get a little clarity on what it is that you're wanting to happen and why is that you're wanting to happen. And then let's talk about a best way of getting the outcome that you want. Because I don't disagree with the idea that you can't let addiction just go on forever and ever and ever in your house and destroy everyone and everything. I'm on board with that 100%. I just don't love the idea of saying if you don't go to treatment, because in my mind, that's an ultimatum and it almost always backfires. And plus, I don't think that's really exactly what you mean anyway when you're saying that. But it's just some. It's just we're caught and we don't know what else to say. And plus, we just don't know what else is going to help the situation. So we just grab onto that. It's just like a life preserver. It's the only thing there that we can say. So we grab it. Here's the thought, though. What you really want is you want the addiction to go away, right? What you really want is. And more than you want the addiction go away, deeper than that, you just want the chaos to go away. Right? So instead of saying if you don't go to treatment, you can't stay here, we need to really get to the heart of the matter, which is the chaos can't stay here. And so if you're going to communicate something in a healthy boundary kind of way, then I think you need to really stop and think about what is it I'm really after, why am I after it? So you just. What you're saying is it's not. I don't love you. It's not, I don't care about you. It's I can't live like this any longer. And a lot of times there are other people involved in situation, and so you're. You're also looking out for them as well. When you say it, when you say you have to go to treatment, it hits that button inside of them that just wants to rebel. And a lot of times they may even kind of know they need to, but when you put the ultimatum out there, they. A lot of times they just want to kick and scream harder because it's a natural human reflex. Excuse me. So before you go and say something like that, the first thing you want to say is, hey, I love you. I care about you. But you got to figure out how to get this problem under control because it's bringing this kind of chaos to the house. And when you put it on that person to figure out how to get the problem under control, it goes a little better. It's kind of like if you ever had, like a micromanaging boss, right? It's so frustrating if someone wants to micromanage and tell you every single thing and how to do your job and what buttons to press and what days to do it and what time and all this kind of stuff. It's annoying, right? What works better is for, like a boss or somebody to say, hey, this is a project. I need you to have it done by X. Or to say, hey, this is an outcome that needs to happen here, here's the deadline, or, here's what we're shooting for. And allowing the other person the autonomy to figure out how to make that happen. It just works a lot better. Now, I know what you're thinking. You're thinking, well, they're not figuring it out. I hear you. See, I hear you. Even though I can't hear you. I hear you sending your little mom messages. I know you're thinking it because I'm thinking it. And you're right. They may not figure it out on their own. They're probably not going to figure it out on their own, especially the first time. But eventually they do kind of figure out that they need help. So let's talk about how to set the stage for that. A lot of you, if you've watched my videos before, you've heard me talk a lot about bargaining. There's this bargaining stage that happens when a person has any kind of an addiction. You know, they go through these phases of trying to cut it back, trying to control it, trying to manage it. Somehow before they really figure out exactly how to get ahold of it, you want to let them do that. So what you want to do is you want to say some kind of version in your own words. You got to make it sound like you for it to be natural, but you got to say some version of like, yeah, let's do that. Whatever their ideas, I think that's a great idea. And then you let. Let them do that. Maybe it'll work. Probably not gonna work, but you don't let them do it. And then when it doesn't work, which is not going to. Then you're gonna. They're gonna say, well, that only didn't work because this X reason or whatever. And then they're either gonna say, I'm gonna try that again, or I'm gonna try something different. And I know you're thinking, that's not gonna work either. And guess what? You're probably right. But you're gonna hold that in because it's not gonna help to say. So what you're gonna say after you let them try it on their own a time or two or three, sometimes they're gonna say, okay, like, I know this takes some figuring out. I can. I appreciate that you're still working on it, so you want to validate their efforts, because it is hard, and it does take some figuring out. And then you want to say, but if that doesn't work, will you agree to get some help? Because I don't know what the solution is either. It's not like I have all the answers and then say, you know, can we get someone else involved in that? And you don't have. Even then, you don't want to say, like, go to treatment. Because literally that whole phrase, treatment, just the word strikes fear into people because it's a big daddy step. Usually what people think, and usually people like me, when they say treatment, they mean, like, inpatient treatment. And mostly what they're thinking when they're. When they're thinking about that is they're thinking like, 30, 60, or 90 days. So you need to stop and just think a little minute about what you're saying to the person. You want them to go to a treatment place for 30 or 60, 90 days. Not only do you want them to not use or engage in their addictive behavior and be sober, which is, like, freaking scary enough. You want them to go be with a bunch of strangers, talk to strangers about their personal business, the things they don't want to talk about, things they feel terrible about. Right. And you want them to be controlled, told when they can eat, when they can have their smoke breaks, when they can do every little thing, what they can do, not do. Some of these places are even, like, locked. They have, like, locked doors. And so you need to understand that it is a big ask. And when you say that, that you're going to get the pushback. So when you do first introduce this idea, you're going to let them try it their own way a few times, and then you're going to say, okay, if it doesn't work, will you get some help? Instead of saying treatment. Because a lot of times the first help they're going to get, it may not even be, you know, big enough help. It's probably going to be talk to a counselor or go to a meeting or some smaller step, and that's okay. And sometimes that's enough. Sometimes that fixes it. And then if that's not enough, then we'll go to the next level. But as the family member, what we typically want to do is go from 0 to 100 and we want to skip all the steps in between. And I get why you feel that way, because it's already gone on for a long time and you feel like that you're at your wit's end and you just want to skip all that burden because you know it's not going to work. And it just. You can't skip it. I've been doing this 20 years and I'm telling you there's no way to skip it. You can speed it up by doing the things that I teach you, but you can't skip it. So by trying to skip it, you're actually halting the change process. So what you want to do is you want to get involved in the change process and you want to have a voice in it and say, okay, let's try this. Let's try this. Like, okay, let's. I call it the bargaining checklist. Let's check. Let's check them all off the list. Let's try all the bargains. Let's try them quickly so we can get through to the end and figure out what we really need to do to solve this. Because these layers of denial come off like layers of the young and right. There's that. I don't have a problem at all. You're crazy. There's okay, I have a problem, but it's not that bad. There's okay, I have a problem. It's a big problem, but I can handle it myself. We get. We gotta go through these stages because the last thing you are going to do is go to 30, 60 or 90 day treatment. People don't go to big daddy treatment like that until they're sure they got no other. There's no other way. And to be honest, I don't blame them. I mean, you have to stop work, you have to stop school, if you're a mom, you have to leave your kids. It is a big commitment. It's not something that you want to do, it's not something that anyone would want to do, but sometimes it's necessary to do. So people are going to try pretty much everything else first, which is honestly, it makes sense, right? Like you would try, you wouldn't do the hardest, most invasive surgical procedure first, right? You try and about it first. You have to sort of get there. And by trying to stop people from doing that, bargaining and trying these lower things, you're slowing it down. Now there does come a phase where you're dealing with the person and they've tried the same thing a hundred times or something like that. And if you have worked the program that we teach you like the invisible intervention, what we talk about on these videos and stuff, and you've built enough relationship, then there does come a point when sometimes you have to say, look, this ain't working, we have to do something else. And if you've done all the other steps and then you say that it's probably going to go over fine because you've built the right relationship to say it. You've built the credibility and the trust to say it and you've allowed them to figure out it's not working otherwise. And by that time they know it. Now, now that I've said all that, I'm gonna tell you that most of the time, not most of them, all the time, people are gonna say, I'm not going to treatment. They are going to refuse treatment a bunch of times before they actually go to treatment. So when, when family members talk to me and they say, you know, my husband says he'll never go to treatment, my daughter says she'll never do group therapy, whatever, I'm like, whatever. They all say that. So don't let that bother you at all. Like even the toughest, biggest cowboys end up going if that's what they need to do. And you're working the system, they almost always do go, so don't let that bother you. Just think about like that as a bargain. Be like, all right, we got our refusal number one out of the way and consider, alright, good, that's a Step that's a step further. He's done said no once. You know, we got a few more no's in there till we get there. Look at it like that. And it won't be as hard when it does happen. What's interesting is if you will let this process unfold the way I'm telling you to let it unfold, when it changes, it'll change really quickly. Let me tell you a funny story about that. And I just remembered this story this week. And I was telling the girls this at lunch. And I think Campbell was with me when this happened. This was several years back. And now I was seeing this young man who had an addiction. He was just out of high school, like 18 or 19 or something like that. And I think he was in like our IOP program or something like that and just wasn't working. He just kept using it, kept getting in trouble, fire from his job. You know the drill. And I think his parents had just had it. And they were like, that is it like we're kicking. That's it. He's got to go. He's either. I don't know what he's gonna do, but we gotta go. And I knew this secretly behind the scenes, and I'm like, dang. I knew that like if I didn't get this kid to agree to go to treatment, that he's just gonna be on the street. And I had a session with him that night and all day long I was thinking about like he was the last one of the night. And I was thinking about, I was like, all right. In my mind, I was doing like my therapy, like push ups, like training, like trying to get my act together. Cause I knew this was gonna be like really difficult. And it was going to be like a lot of tension and this. I call him a kid. He was officially an adult, but he was really a kid. This kid shows up in my office and I think he's a little high, honestly, and he's just sort of a mess. And then I think. And then I say something like, like, dude, I think you're gonna have to go to treatment. You know what he says? He says, okay. And I was like, what? Like, I was like ready for the fight, you know, I was like geared up, ready to go. And then he's just like, all right. I was like, like, I think your parents have an appointment and like they're ready to drive you tonight. And he's like, all right. He didn't fight me at all. And I was like, what the world? And honestly, it happens like that a lot. It's like, there. It's like, no, no, no, no. I got this. I got a problem. It's not me. It's not. Quickly it breaks. And when they're ready, they're ready. And what's really interesting is a lot of times when it does break and when they do get ready for some help, they actually go straight to the big daddy treatment. Because sometimes when they get ready and I say, well, you know, we could do this or this. And, like, literally sometimes they'll say to me, like, no, I think I'm gonna have to go to inpatient. And I'm like, what? Because what you don't understand that's happening behind the scenes is as they're saying no, as they're doing these bargains, as they're blaming everybody, El secretly inside, this is working on them, and it's working on them, and it's working on them. And so it feels to us on the outside like it's come from nowhere, but it really hasn't come from nowhere because they've been battling. They've been doing this internal war with themselves for a very long time, just, like, trying to fix it themselves. Trying to just be rebellious and say, this is dumb. I shouldn't have to, like, you know, not drink. I'm a grown man, whatever, all the things, and. But when it just doesn't work, and it doesn't work, it doesn't work, especially when you're not playing the bad guy and there's no one else to blame, and it just is really clear what's happening, and you can help. You can help make that picture clear. There are things you can do then. Then they kind of get honest with themselves. And the reason why they'll say sometimes, like, no, I need to go to, you know, like, I need to go inpatient somewhere. The reason why they say that is because they know that behind the scenes, they've been trying it. They've been trying to stop. They may not have been acting like that, but they've been trying to stop, and it hasn't worked. And they've made all these promises themselves that they were going to stop at home and stuff. And so by the time they get there, they kind of know that, like, I'm going to have to get out of this environment. I cannot do this. Because they've been trying. And that's what you don't know behind the scenes. So should you eventually draw the line and say that addiction, chaos cannot be in this house? Of course you should. But don't draw the line because you think I'm just going to draw the line. And then that's going to force them to do it. Because it doesn't normally work that way. When you draw that line, it's because, like, for real, you can't deal with the chaos. The chaos cannot stay in the house anymore. Not because you think you have to give them this ultimatum to make them go. Because it probably isn't gonna make them go. And if it does make them go, like occasionally, sometimes you can like leverage someone in a situation like that. If they haven't gotten all their bargainings out, they're gonna come back out and finish their bargains. Like if they still have it in the back of their head that they can drink and they're fine as long as they don't do cocaine and they haven't, they haven't tried that like 10 times, it's going to come back, they're going to do it. Now, I know that may seem a little confusing because some of you have probably heard me say, like, people can get better even if they didn't want to go to treatment. And that's true. I've seen a lot of people go to treatment almost forcibly. And as long as they're there long enough, like forcibly in for three or four days, is it going to do anything. But if they're sort of leveraged into it for a long enough time and their brain clears, then that's fine, that can work. But. But really only if they've like done all these bargains. If they still have it in the back of their head that I can make this work somehow I can manage this without giving it up totally. It may not come back on day one when they get out, but this little creepy, sneaky little monster mouth dog is going to grab a hold of them and then they're gonna try it and then, you know, then we're gonna crash and burn. And the thing about sending people to big daddy treatment, this is it's about timing. You can take almost anybody and put them, any addictive person, put them in treatment long enough and they will get better because you get the addicted substance out, behaviors out and their brain clears and they come back. But it's what happens when they leave. That's why it's about timing. And because treatment can be so expensive, it's like playing cards. It's like an ace card and you want to wait and you want to play it in exactly the right way at exactly the right time. So you take your little cards Your throwaway cards. You play them the best you can and you hold your big daddy ace card. That's what I want you to be thinking of in your mind when you're having these conversations with yourself. Not only if you send them too early and they still have these bargains in the back of their head that they're going to go back out and use. And now you've spent $40,000 on this treatment, you're like, I don't, I don't have any more money. I can't send you back to treatment. Like, I already, like, remortgaged the house to send you or whatever. So you've got that issue going on. But also when you send someone too early, too much to treatment, they hear it all so much, and they've seen it all so much, it loses its power and effect. And so what they'll tell you is things like, dude, I could run that group. I've heard all this. I literally know everything they're gonna say. And guess what? They're telling you the truth. That's probably true. Now, sometimes people who have been a hundred times and they've heard it all, they end up going because they know they, they need the protection and the community and the, the being away from it, out of the environment is still helpful. But the things that they're learning, the conversations they're having, it's not really that anymore because they've heard it. And when you hear something 100 times, you just stop listening. So it's like the power level on your ace card gets a little less each time you play it as well. So for that reason, I think you should think about it very strategically about what to ask for and when. And the more you can let it be their idea, the better. And if you will let them go through this process, they will come to that consensus. I mean, I'm trying to think of somebody that we've had in our office that said, I'm not going to go, that really needed to go, that didn't end up going eventually. So. So don't worry about it. When they say, I'm not going to go now, you may say, you may be to the point with someone where they say, I'm not willing to get help and they can't fix it. And you may say, okay, then, well, we're going to have to live separate. I'm going to support you from afar or whatever it is, because you're really to that threshold. And I get that there does come a point for that. But if you Let this process play out. It will. I'm telling you. It will just work better for you. All right, Bri, do we have some good questions today? I see some coming in here. I see some piling. Give us some good questions and comments and concerns. Beth. I've left my addicted husband. I let him. I left my addicted husband. Know that I need honesty, transparency to keep our daughter safe and quality time together in order for him to come home. There hasn't been any change or sustained talk. It's the elephant in the room, but he doesn't want to bring it up. Any suggestions? What is it that you're wanting him to bring up? I mean, I can guess. I'm not dumb. You're wanting him to say, I'm ready to be done. What is it that you're wanting to bring up? To the surface. Exactly. And then also, I want to go back to the beginning of what you said, Beth, because you said, I need honesty and transparency to keep my daughter safe. And that's. You know, last week we talked about this topic, which is really hard to kind of explain, and it's so gray. Right. There are some areas where you definitely, especially if you have a small child, like, you need to know what's going on. Like, if your child is getting in the car with someone, you need to know that they're sober enough to drive that car. If you have a small kid and you're going to work and you're leaving them at home with, you know, their big brother or the other parent or whoever it is, and you need to know if they're intoxicated, you need to know that they are safe to leave the child with. 100,000 million percent agree with that. But where it gets hazy is. Is like, sometimes family members will say that, and there's truth in it. But a lot of times it's like, I want to know every single detail. So they're saying it's for this reason, but really they want to know everything that's done happened, everyone you've used with. Like, they won't like. And. And when you're asking for that, you're really asking for that for another reason. So it's one of those, like, boundaries that's kind of disguised strangely. So you got to be a little bit careful about that. Here's what I'm going to tell you. What you need to know is that your child is safe with that person if left in their care. That's what you need to know. People with addictions, they're going to tell you Lies and trying to call them out on every single one of them is going to keep you way too busy. For one. You ain't got time for that. It's going to keep you in a big fight. So you got to think about what is where, what is the exact honesty that I need. Because they're not going to be honest with you about everything. They're not honest with me about everything. And I, I don't care. I had a guy in my office a couple weeks ago and he's actually doing really good. His daughter's get, you know, she's about the same age as my son. She's getting to that teenager age and he's like, and he's a good dad. He's a good dad. And, and they have a close relationship, but she's just becoming a teenager and he's saying like, I can tell, like there's stuff she doesn't want to talk to me about and she's hiding in he. He's like. And I just, that really bothers me. Like I want her to feel like she can talk to me and why does she think that? And, and I agree. Like, he's as loving and kind and supportive of a parent as you can be. And I said, dude, how many times you done sitting here lied to me? And I'm on your side. I'm your lawyer for gosh sake. Like, I'm the one here to get you out of the trouble. And he didn't really say anything, but you could see on his face like, okay, because a lot of times it's just like you're embarrassed for the person to know. There are reasons why people. And I'm not saying that it's okay. I'm just saying like when you get your ego caught up in saying I gotta know every single little truth, you're going to get yourself down the wrong path. Remember, the goal is the goal. Let's figure out and be creative about how to get there and not get bogged down into the nitty gritty. What else we got? Bri? Linda says my 28 year old son coming out of rehab today. Okay, good. I found out his dog of eight years has cancer. How do I tell him? Can you please help? Oh, man. And he's coming out today. When I used to work at an inpatient facility, if there was news like that, we tried to get it to come out while they were still there because they were in that safe environment and gave them to process it, gave them time to process that. But I know that's not an option for you. You're like, I know, Amber, but that's not helpful. I get it. So I think you're just, you're just gonna have to tell it to him. I mean, you don't really have much choice. And if he's coming out today, he's coming out today. You can't say, stay longer. You can't call the facility and ask them to keep him longer because that's not, that's not going to work. And you can't be dishonest with them about the dog. So you really don't have much choice but to be honest and keep, keep this in mind, too, Linda. Like, I know we don't want to stress someone too much because they're already under a lot of stress. But that news and stress isn't, can't make him use. If he's just far, if he's just now brand new out of treatment, he's either of the mindset to stay sober or not. And that's, that's not going to make or break him. Obviously, we don't want to add any more stress to him because, because we care and he's vulnerable. Right. But one of the things when people come out of rehab that they hate is they hate it when everyone treats them really weird, like they're a kid and just acts weird and then like, doesn't tell them things are happening in the family because they think they can't handle. Handle it. That's. That's problematic and bothers of them to them, too. So he's still the same. He's 28 years old. You're not going to treat him like a baby. You're going to care and be concerned. But, you know, don't, don't tiptoe around it. Don't be dishonest about it because that, that'll be more bothersome than the news lady says. What about what happened? What about when it is beyond the addiction? O they cycle between highs and lows and when in the lows they attempted against their own life drinking and not eating or drinking water for 10 days. I'm not 100% sure what you're asking here. I think what you're saying is somebody has a mood disorder like, like a, like a bipolar or something like that. It sounds like what you're saying. And that when they're in those depressive phases, they do dangerous things like try to hurt themselves or some of these things. You're saying, what are you. So what are you asking me about that? Are you saying. Are you saying, Linda, like, if it's during one of those times, do I say go to treatment? Is that what you're asking? Like, is that an okay time? It's an okay time to push harder, but it's still. I don't know that it works any more effectively even in that situation. Even though the, the pressure to do something is so much higher for you, for them, it's not going to necessarily be so much higher. So you're going to have to find a way to bring it up and phrase it in a way that works for them. If I were in that situation with a client and I knew things were getting really desperate and I was trying to get them talked into, to going, then, then I would say, look, you're obviously really stressed out. Like, whatever's going on with you is so bad that you're to this point that you're not. You're not taking care of yourself. You don't care what happens. So, so sometimes I'll say, is it really going to be worse than this? So you're not really risking much. So sometimes I. I'll find a way to phrase it to them that, that maybe they can grab a hold of if they're actively suicidal or something like that, then you can try to get the authorities involved and get them committed. But that's complicated. We have other videos on that. Should we call the paramedics, taken to hospital? You can. I don't. I don't know the person you're talking about. It depends on. You can call them, but then they may or may not do anything. Depends on what that person says. If that person tells you that they are trying to hurt themselves, just ought to call them. So I shouldn't say you can't call them, but be prepared that they may or may not do anything because if they show up and the person says whatever, like she's crazy, I'm fine. They're not. They can't. They're not going to do anything unless there's some kind of evidence. I mean, like hardcore, like a bottle of pills I just took or something like that. They. They can't. Their hands are tied. So Steph says, husband logged into my Kindle account and saw my library, was on helping an addict. Now he wants an explanation on why I think he's an addict. Any evident. Any advice on how to address him? Thank you so much for your perspective from my loved one. It's what's given me hope to keep trying to step. I hate that I've actually been thinking lately I'VE been talking to the team some about maybe making like a. Like a journal or a workbook or something that goes along with the stuff we teach. And that's been one of the things on my mind. I'm like, dude, I don't know. Like, if somebody, like had this journal and then it was in their house and that got picked up, I've been thinking about that a lot because that is definitely a concern. Has he not brought it up? So you said he's going to want an explanation about why you think he's an addict. He's not said that, though. You just think he's thinking it. How does it get from chaos to bargaining discussions? If he brings it up and he knows it, then you're just going to have to say, yeah, I mean, I think something's going on. I'm trying to figure out what it is. At that point, you're caught, so you're not going to do yourself any good. Just like if they get caught drinking and they try to say, I'm not drinking, it's just ridiculous. You're just going to have to own it and say, I'm not saying. You can say, I don't. I'm not saying I know everything. I'm just saying I think there's something. There's a problem, and I'm trying to figure out what it is. So you're just going to have to own that. How does it get from bargaining? How does it get from chaos to bargaining? Because usually when something bad happens and they know it's terrible and they feel really bad about it, they usually start saying things like, I know I gotta cut back. I know I shouldn't have done that from now on. So it's usually. Usually it's after something happens that they feel really remorseful about. T. Thompson says, my husband says he would like to quit drinking because he knows it hurts me. But it isn't because he wants for himself. Is it still a sign that he won't quit? I love this question. Some of you that have been watching me for a long time, you already know what I'm gonna say. You ready? There's no bad reason wanting to stop for you is an excellent reason. And don't let anyone tell you otherwise. They're all good reasons. I don't care why you want to quit. I don't care if it's because you don't want to go to prison, because you don't want to lose your kid, because you think it's making you gain weight. I don't care. There is no bad reason. You say, oh my gosh. Thank you, honey. It really means so much to me. I know, I know. Like, I know it's a big sacrifice and I really love you for it. That is what you say. You don't say, don't say this, and you probably said it, but it's okay. You're gonna get another chance. Don't say it next time. Well, you have to want it for yourself. No, actually think about the things that if it was just for you, that you wouldn't do, but if it was for someone you cared about, you would do right. I can think of a lot of things I would do for my family and my kid that I don't care if it's just me. So you just let that sit. People, once they get sober, they feel better and they stay sober for themselves. But people don't quit for themselves ever. So don't worry about it. Pinky says I blew it and announced my boundaries with get sober. I wish I would have dated my hurt from her comments and let her connect the dots. Can I send a second message? Lol. Sure you can. Sure you can. If you have a decent relationship with someone, it can take a couple of hits. Especially if you apologize and you say, you know what? I wish I wouldn't have said it that way. I was upset. And rephrase what you say. And I think that's a great actually moment to model humility. And a lot of times they'll say, well, actually, I know why you said it. Like a lot of times when you do that, they'll be humbled back and you can actually have a good conversation. So, yeah, you can send the second message, Mike. I finally filed for legal separation out of fear of losing child. She started intensive outpatient, but still blames me, expects 50, 50 custody, still manipulates and doesn't get it. Doesn't think that drinking impacted me or our son. It's been six weeks of sobriety, but it doesn't feel she's really started to recover. No awareness. I moved out 10 days with my son. She seems to just be checking the boxes not to lose custody. Am I wrong to tune her out? No. I think based on what you're telling me, if that's the case, somebody's sober for six weeks and they're still saying that. And they don't have any insight into how their drinking or whatever it was affected other people, then they. They definitely are just checking the boxes. And like I said in the beginning, it's okay. But somewhere during that process, they get insightful. If they don't, it's not a good sign. Are you wrong to tune her out? I mean, you're, you're not, you're not wrong to tune her out. It depends on what you're trying to accomplish. And it sounds to me like you're trying to accomplish, like you said, keeping yourself and your child safe and getting some distance. And so you, when you're to that point, that that is the step you need to take. You need to take that step. Don't try to do all the things that I'm telling you and also take that step. You can be kind, you can be supportive, but you can't do all this stuff like let them get through the bargaining and all that, while you're also like literally divorcing someone or trying to get custody of the kid. It doesn't work. Jessica. My husband went to 28 day rehab and has been out less than a month and has already slipped three times that I know of. Maybe he went too soon and wasn't ready to get out. Possibly. It's possible, it's, it's possible that he, like you're saying that he wasn't really ready to go to treatment just yet. He went too soon. Maybe he was ready, but he got out too soon and he thought he was ready to handle it and he's not. And maybe he was in there for 28 days literally counting them down, thinking and scheming and making plans as soon as I walk out this door I'm gonna use, because that happens. Maybe he thought, I got this, I got this and he was overconfident and he didn't realize how. There's a million reasons why that couldn't, that could be happening. And without knowing a little more, it would be hard for me to say. Elizabeth says, my addict is in complete denial. It's hard to have a plan in place because I really don't know what to expect. Should I find a detox in my area and call and find out more about how it works or just aa? Great question, Elizabeth. Even if your person is saying I don't want to go to treatment, even if you think they're never going to go to treatment, just in case you have one of those where they say, I need help. And like what I said before, a lot of times when they say that they need help, like once they say it, they know they need like a lot of help. You need to have all the things in place if at all possible. So, yes, definitely figure out all the options. If there's insurance, find out what places take insurance. You know, how long is the waiting list. Like have multiple resources in case whatever one resource that you have isn't something they're willing to do at the time. Or that place may not have a bed. Like literally have them written down in a note card that you keep in your wallet or something, but don't let them find them. Like stuff but have it in your head or something. Definitely you want to find out about that. My husband had two appointments with you. One was yesterday. I feel like my patience is running low. Do you have any advice? He's an alcoholic. I don't think I can comment on that because yeah, I don't think I can comment on that one. Smiley says question. If ah said he will do a breathalyzer, agreed for me to buy one, but has agreed sarcastically. Should I take him up on it or will it make it worse? He is sneak drinking. If he's agreed to do it then I probably would go ahead and do it. But if possible, if you're going to get him to agree to do it, some of y' all have heard me talk about I like sober links and if you can't do soberlink for whatever reason, then find another one. That's a process. Just buying a breathalyzer, it creates a problem because then you have to ask them to take the breathalyzer each time and it becomes a fight and an accusation. Whether if you have some kind of recovery monitoring system, system set up. It's just set up and it's just on autopilot and it's not you saying I think you're drinking, it's just it, it just runs itself. So if possible I think those, those kind of situations are better. And Bri, let me say I feel bad for saying I can't answer that question. I can't answer that question because I didn't have enough information and if I did and I've seen this person, I feel like if I answer it that would be some kind of breach. Although I don't even know who this person is from the comment. But still that's why I didn't answer it. I'm sorry, I didn't. I wasn't being rude. Tiffany says alcoholic husband acts out with an affair partner has caused so much distress to our 13 year old who is witnessed this and has become suicidal. Not enough of a consequence. Husband had been to rehab on the family's dime. He is no longer communicating. Is there, is there a question or is that all of it, brain, it must be all of it. I feel like what you're saying, Tiffany, is like, can he not see this? Is this not enough of a consequence? And the thing of it is, consequences don't cure addiction. That's actually the definition. It's like continued some sort of continued behavior despite consequences. Think about it. People use even though they know they're going to go to prison. People use even though they know they're going to lose the rights to their child. The consequence itself isn't enough to make someone stop using. And the reason, the reason that is is not. It's not only just because the addiction is that powerful. That's part of it. But part of it is because they, they don't connect the dots between the using and the consequence. Like, they may think that whatever they're doing is not the reason for the daughter's distress. They may say the reason the daughter's distress is because you're filling her head with stuff. It's like. So they may not be allowing themselves to connect that dot. That's part of it. And then the other part of it is they think they can continue to do it without the consequence. Like if I just don't get caught or if I just don't drive on drinking. So they, they figure there's a way around the consequence. But yeah, it's crazy sometimes when you see people like, I hate it when I say I'm like, you're gonna lose everything. Like what, you know, it, it's insanity. My question is regarding setting my first goal in the invisible intervention. I'm having a hard time coming up with one. Most of my goals is only a desire. If he gets sober. In the invisible intervention, we talk about setting like little behavioral goals. And if you're, if you're, if you're at the very beginning of it, then what you try to do in the beginning is anything that creates, as far as what's going to help him or her, the person. It's anything that creates connection and credibility. So, so it's like, you know, once a week, sit on my couch and watch our show together, whatever it is, or have a funny conversation or go do something together and it not go badly. That's a good goal. So I know it seems crazy because your, your big goal might be for them to go to 90 days treatment, get sober, make amends, do all this stuff. But it's like, what is the next little tiny step to get there? And maybe you just set a goal because there's something if they could do, would make your life easier. It can be simple. Like I wish they just do them dang dishes in there or clean up their mess after they've been drinking or whatever it is. Like it feels little, but it's restructuring the nature of the relationship is what it's doing. And so think of it that way. If your loved one agrees to get help, what would be the first form of help you would recommend? And then what others prior to the Big Daddy? So professional, right? The Big Daddy. What others prior to the Big Daddy might be a natural progression. If they're still in a bargaining phase, means they're still in the phase of like I think I can manage it, then I would recommend individual counseling. And if you can find somebody that has been trained in something called motivational interviewing, that's a specialized technique that's used in these kind of situations to help move someone through the stages of change, through those bargaining stages, that would be what I'd recommend. Then if they say I'm going to agree to get some help and they're actually trying to stop, like they're actually their goal is I don't want to do this anymore, then I would probably recommend. The lowest level would be like intensive outpatient treatment which is usually like going to groups that are usually kind of long, like two or three hours, about three times a week. That's what's called intensive outpatient. That's probably the lowest level of treatment that I've seen work for somebody who was really addicted and was trying to stop on their own but having a hard time. You're probably going to need at least that level. My daughter denies her addiction yet used during her pregnancy and the baby was taken into foster care after birth. She's 40 years old and has been using for years. She's still using now and about to lose her housing, doesn't have a job, lies non stop. What kind of wake up call does she need? Obviously I'm just totally guessing here, but when I read this I don't think, I don't think the person is in denial. I don't think you'd be that far into it and think I don't have a problem. Because sometimes you deal with people that are pretty well functioning. They still go into job, they're still going to the PTA means all this and they will deny it. But this far in. She may be denying it out loud to you but. But probably is just to the point that they either think I don't care or they think it's so bad I can't I can't stop anyway, like, they've given up hope. But my guess is it's probably not just flat out like denial of having a problem. What is the success rate of people try to stay sober on their own? Depends on what they. It depends on what they try to stay sober. If they're saying, I'm going to get sober and they make changes in their life that set that up in a really good way, like changing people places and things and telling people that they're staying sober, if they do a lot of the right things, then they have a pretty good chance. If they say, I'm going to do it on my own, but they literally, they're not going to tell anyone. They're not going to change anything about their routines or habits. They're just going to say, okay, I got this, I'm just going to stop. But nothing else changes. Not very good. Like, just doesn't work that way. I have two separate questions. Is it unusual for your addicted loved one to use when things are going well? The answer to that is yes. As well as pulling away after they use again? Yes. So whenever emotions get like, really good or really bad, like when things are good and people are happy or celebrating or something great happens, that's a time when our guard gets down so people can use. That's one of the reasons. The other reason is because if they've been sober for a while and things are calm and things are going really good, then what happens is they get overconfident and they think I got this and they let their guard down. And then that's also a reason why people relapse is just because they feel like they got it conquered. So they quit putting so much energy and effort into it and they quit realizing that they don't need to go these certain places, they think, I got this and they just like totally forget about it. And then they use. And then is it calm for them to pull away again? Yes, because, well, two things. One, they know you're going to be upset and they don't want to deal with that. And two, as crazy as it sounds, once they use again, like sometimes immediately, not all the times, but sometimes immediately, they're back to their attic self. And it is the craziest thing to witness. I mean, it could literally be yesterday. It could be like your family member, your loved one, they're great, they're wonderful. Things are wonderful. And then they use that night. And then you're talking to them yesterday and they're telling you the same things they told you, you're the bad guy. You're having the same arguments they get right back in that same mindset to justify. And because of what the substance does. And it's. It's like it blows your mind to see it because it happens so fast. If there has been change. Talk when I can. When can I tell him about you to see if he'll consider seeing you? When people ask me that about, like, will I talk to people, I say the best thing to do is to introduce them to me through my videos first, because then they can decide if they like me, they can warm up to me, and then by the time they see me, they're ready. I personally don't mind working with people in the early stages of change while they do all that bargaining I'm actually pretty good at. Doesn't bother me at all because I've done it for my whole career. But I don't suggest doing it now. One, because I don't see very many clients, so it's hard to get on my calendar. And two, because it's gonna sound nasty, but it's like really expensive. And so I can talk to the person while they try to figure out, can I cut it back from 12 to 6 to 2. It doesn't bother me at all, but it's probably not necessary. I would use that kind of. Maybe not like your ace card, but like, like your king card or your queen card or something like that. So I would hold it back until you think they're ready. So stage the changes right? Introduce them to the videos, and then when I do see them, it happens fast. Can you see a therapist with an addiction? Is. Is it a good step? Right. Can seeing a therapist. Oh. Can seeing a therapist help with addiction? Sorry, I was reading that all wrong. Can seeing a therapist to help with addiction is a good step? Yes, of course, under the right circumstances, definitely can help. If the person knows they have an addiction and they're trying to work on that addiction, seeing a therapist is very, very helpful. If the person doesn't think they have an addiction, but they're just going to make you happy and they're talking just to an individual therapist, then probably what they're going to be talking about in their therapy session is you and all the other wrong stuff. And sometimes because the therapist isn't getting all the information, all the right information, they can give bad advice or lead in the wrong direction. Sometimes because the person's in denial, they're not going to be telling the counselor that. So the counselor is going to be Advised in a certain way based on the information they have. So, yeah, if you know it's an addiction and that's what you want help for, heck, yes. Do it. Do you think. Do you think it's weird the substance that destroys so many people in their families is advertised as something that gives you freedom and happiness? Yeah. I don't know if the word is weird, but yeah. Agreed. And I was. We were talking about this at lunch recently. Alcohol is what you're talking about. Alcohol kills more people, much more people, like, lots more people than all the other addictions combined every year. So if you take every other addiction, opioids included, and it causes this many deaths every year. Alcohol causes this many deaths every year. And it's. It's not just as advertised. It's celebrated. It's. It. It's ingrained in the. Like, you're weird if you don't. It's that far. Yep. My husband had a slip after four months of rehab. What is my role, if anything? Your role is to damage control. I have a really good video channel. I know. It was one of the live videos. It was a slightly longer one about what to do if there's a slip. So what you want to do is you want to not freak out. You want to help that person not freak out. You want to say, listen, you've done really good. This doesn't have to be a setback. So. So level number one is damage control. It. If you freak and. And you say, oh, my gosh, why would you do this? You're both going to spiral. So you're just gonna be cool and you're gonna keep working the same plan. You're gonna get right back on track. Karen, Been following you for a very long time. My son is in jail and finally says he's going to go to a halfway house because he knows he needs help now. What should I say to him other than I'm pleased? You say, I'm proud of you. What are you allowed to have at the halfway house? Can I bring you some of your stuff? You know, can I give you a ride? You just be. You say, that's great. I'm proud of you. That's actually a big step. I know you've been in jail, so going to another, like, place that has a bunch of rules and stuff like that is a really hard choice. So you just validate it and then you be helpful and supportive. Ashley says, hi, Amber. My husband is using but thinks. I don't know. He refuses to speak about his addiction at all. Trying to apply all of your principles, be kind and not cause any trouble. But do I let him know that I know he is using? I feel like it will just cause fights or just say nothing. Do I just wait for him to figure it out, or was he impatient for six months ago? Was he. He was impatient six months ago. I think it's okay to say that, you know, But I advise against trying to get him to admit it. I know that seems weird. So if. If you're saying, I know you've been using, and then you're sitting there waiting for him to say you're right, don't do that, because he's not. He's gonna lie to you, and it is gonna be in a big fight. But if you say something and. And I like to use the super casual, almost passing like, dude, I just want you to know that I know, and that's it. And he can say whatever he's gonna say, and you're not even gonna argue back because you're not gonna try to get him to admit it then. I think. I think that's fine. Is that our last one, Brie? All right, let's wrap it up. Thank you, everybody, for hanging out as always. You guys had good questions. I feel like y' all are bringing, like, better and better questions. Y' all getting good at it. You're challenging me. I love it. Thank you. I put resources for you in the description. One of the things I put down there is my insider's guide to understanding addiction treatment options. And it tells you, like, all the different things. Like, a lot of you were asking, like, what are the other options other than the big daddies? And it explains all the different levels, the kinds of counseling, what they cost, what insurance pays for and what it doesn't. That's a really good place to start, just to wrap your head around, like, what are all the options? So you kind of know what to select from and what works for what. It's in the description. You can download it for free. I will see you guys next time. Bye, everybody.